BajaNomad - holy mother of

holy mother of

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Timinator - 8-10-2018 at 09:43 AM

No Liberal cares about anything but their own agenda. Prove the guy wrong with an accredited world class scientist that isn't paid. That's the argument, not Dennis Prager. If you can't do anything but call Prager names, well, that's what I'm talking about.

chuckie - 8-10-2018 at 09:55 AM

Pretty definitive statement, Timo...How did you manage to get all those liberals surveyed in such a short time? More absorbed knowledge?..I gotta go feed cattle, now that's REAL BS....

John Harper - 8-10-2018 at 10:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

Overeducation is a factor as well.American industry started to decline when MBA's ascended in the management ranks....

Speaking of generalizations, what about this one? Sounds like someone got a rejection letter from Harvard Business School. It happens to a lot of us. I got over it, you can too!

John

Timinator - 8-10-2018 at 10:58 AM

As Liberals will tell you: 97% of Climatologists agree. What they won't tell you is that the "97%" number was the results of a SURVEY that a bunch of Climatologist were given that asked ridiculously skewed and stupid questions that could only be answered one way "would you rather be shot in the head, or make love to your spouse". It wasn't based on data or results based from any study! It was a questioner who's purpose was hidden from the scientists that took it. If it's such and so widely accepted, why did Al Gore have to hide the reason and intent for the study to begin with and why did so many scientists threaten to sue if their names were used after they found out it's intent? It's all a lie. I trust Prager videos over ANY main stream news source in the United States. Prove one of their hundreds of videos false, just one, you can't. All you can do is call them names.

It's easy to find dirt on anybody who's lived a lifetime and been involved in thousands of studies and reports, nobody lives a lifetime without any faults. That's what's it's all about, learning and moving on. It's not about dropping to your knees and following a party who who's only mantra is lie, deny and counter accuse.

bajabuddha - 8-10-2018 at 11:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator

As Liberals will tell you: .... blah blah blah blah blah..... All you can do is call them names.... blah blah...

Hypocrisy much?

Timinator - 8-10-2018 at 11:22 AM

Here's how Liberals came up with the "97% of Climatologists" if this type of science is all it takes to reach into your pocket or take away your freedoms you deserve to reap what you sew.

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/1945223788853801/

chuckie - 8-10-2018 at 12:47 PM

Some of these ol boys little sensitive about their lack of degrees...Harper seems pretty miffed about his rejection by the Boola Boola crowd..He musta Graduated somwheres...I tried to get a good look at his school ring, while he was pickin his nose....but his finger was movin too fast......Stanford? Lotta nose pickers outa there....

JoeJustJoe - 8-10-2018 at 12:55 PM

You have to wonder, if Timinator, was serious and a real Scientist, why is in posting links from right-wing loon, Dennis Prager, who talks politics, loves, Jesus, and Jews, and hates Muslims, and women, if the women don't know their place? Now if that's your thing to watch Dennis Prager, I have no problem with that, but Prager, is no scientist and only has typical right-wing views against global warming.

And if William Happer, is some expert Princeton physicists, with serious global warming scientific credentials, then why isn't he posting his reports on scientific published research sites that are subject to peer review, but instead publishes his opinions on Fox News owned Business paper, the "Wall Street Journal?
________________________________
From "skeptical science," some highlights:

William Happer is a Princeton physicist and Chairman of the Board of Directors at the right-wing fossil fuel-funded think tank George C. Marshall Institute. Although he has not published any climate-related research in his scientific career, Happer nevertheless seems to enjoy making his opinions about climate science known, as we have previously examined here and here. Unfortunately, Happer does not seem interested in taking the time to ensure that those are informed opinions.

Rather than subject his thoughts to the peer-review process, Happer's publication of choice appears to be The Wall Street Journal (WSJ), as he was one of the 16 scientists who recently published a plea for climate inaction in that paper, and a follow-up article defending their previous misrepresentations. Happer has now gone solo, publishing another opinion-editorial in the WSJ with such a Gish Gallop of climate-related myths as to be a truly Moncktonian effort.

Though we will briefly whack each of Happer's moles in the post below, one particular myth caught our attention. This myth was also recently endorsed by Roy Spencer in an interview with John Stossel on Fox News - the myth that the planet has not warmed in the past 10 years.

https://skepticalscience.com/happer-spencer-global-warming-c...
_______________________

The Latest Denialist Plea for Climate Change Inaction

As they tend to do from time to time in an effort to distract from the climate science consensus, a group of scientists who are also climate "skeptics" have published an opinion-editorial (op-ed), trying to make the case against taking action to address climate change. As usual, the article is little more than a regurgitation of a number of climate myths we have debunked at Skeptical Science.

The op-ed begins with the wholly unsupported assertion that:

"...a large and growing number of distinguished scientists and engineers do not agree that drastic actions on global warming are needed."

The fact that only 16 scientists and engineers signed this letter casts serious doubt on this assertion. The fake skeptics were able to get ~100 signatories on a similar letter 5 years ago - this seems more like a small and dwindling number of fake skeptics. It's also worth noting that 255 National Academy of Science members (truly prominent scientists) signed an opposite letter, urging action to address climate change.

https://skepticalscience.com/examining-the-latest-climate-de...

John Harper - 8-10-2018 at 12:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

Some of these ol boys little sensitive about their lack of degrees...Harper seems pretty miffed about his rejection by the Boola Boola crowd..He musta Graduated somwheres...I tried to get a good look at his school ring, while he was pickin his nose....but his finger was movin too fast......Stanford? Lotta nose pickers outa there....

Stanford, please. Give me a break. Full ride at USC, baby! I think they were surprised to see a white guy named Harper show up!

John

[Edited on 8-10-2018 by John Harper]

Timinator - 8-10-2018 at 01:10 PM

Problem is, he's more accredited, better published and more accomplished than anyone here on this site. All you can do is call him names, you can't change the science or discredit a think he said with science or data. Lie, Deny and Counter Accuse, that's all you got. You have no policy wins to fall back on or point to, and the country just handed you your walking papers to the tune of 8 out of 10 elections...again! So, boohoo hoo.

"97% of Climatologists agree". That's a liberal lie. Period. Just like Obama knowingly lying to every person in the United States selling us on Obamacare lies. Keep your doctor, keep your plan, save the average household $2500/yr., most people are unhappy with their healthcare plan, will only cost 900B/yr (it's over 3T/yr now and climbing). When will you liberals stop? You have collapsed every civilization in world history that's adopted your liberal policies. Don't you get it, it's a lie.

[Edited on 8-10-2018 by Timinator]

JoeJustJoe - 8-10-2018 at 01:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator

Problem is, he's more accredited, sponsorsand more accomplished than anyone here on this site. All you can do is call him names, you can't change the science or discredit a think he said with science or data. Lie, Deny and Counter Accuse, that's all you got. You have no policy wins to fall back on or point to, and the country just handed you your walking papers to the tune of 8 out of 10 elections...again! So, boohoo hoo.

He is not accredited and better published on climate science, unless you want to include right wing loon sites like Dennis Prager, sites, and opinion and op-ed write ups in the "Wall Street Journal, that's good or business news, but not for science. Oh yeah, The "World Nut Daily" also posts opinion pieces from this crank.

Please Timinator, no more Dennis Prager's videos, I can't take anymore of that BS.

chuckie - 8-10-2018 at 02:01 PM

Hell, Harper,you caint be too Bad then...Didn't USC have a football team once???

John Harper - 8-10-2018 at 02:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by chuckie

Hell, Harper,you caint be too Bad then...Didn't USC have a football team once???

Not when I was there, we got our asses handed to us by the green drunken leprechauns too many times.

John

bajabuddha - 8-10-2018 at 03:16 PM

That's why whiskey was invented... so the Irish didn't rule the world.

SFandH - 8-10-2018 at 05:49 PM

For those who are interested in global warming due to the burning of fossil fuels, and the climate change that is now occurring as a result, here's a history of the first 10 years of the 40-year-old subject.

"Losing Earth" https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/01/magazine/clim...

A snippet about a 1979 EPA report: In the final paragraph of a chapter on environmental regulation, the coal report’s authors noted that the continued use of fossil fuels might, within two or three decades, bring about “significant and damaging” changes to the global atmosphere.

39 years ago

[Edited on 8-11-2018 by SFandH]

A some what different view of things

wessongroup - 8-11-2018 at 04:48 PM

Credit: ADAM NIEMAN/SCIENCE PHOTO LIBRARY

Caption: Global water and air volume. Conceptual computer artwork of the total volume of water on Earth (left) and of air in the Earth's atmosphere (right) shown as spheres (blue and pink). The spheres show how finite water and air supplies are. The water sphere measures 1390 kilometres across and has a volume of 1.4 billion cubic kilometres. This includes all the water in the oceans, seas, ice caps, lakes and rivers as well as ground water, and that in the atmosphere. The air sphere measures 1999 kilometres across and weighs 5140 trillion tonnes. As the atmosphere extends from Earth it becomes less dense. Half of the air lies within the first 5 kilometres of the atmosphere.
 

http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/159214/view

 Given the actual volume of our atmosphere in terms relative to the volume of the earth .. One should see how small the “atmosphere” actually is … Thus subject to greater variation due to its smaller volume .. creating a relatively thin layer around the planet…. water is also less in overall volume and would therefore be subject to the same laws of thermodynamics   Amazing balance we have going for us … on this little planet … Totally the luck of the draw

[Edited on 8-11-2018 by wessongroup]

Paco Facullo - 8-11-2018 at 05:27 PM

Yes, we a truly a fluke of the universe,

You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Fluke it ALL !

MrBillM - 8-11-2018 at 08:56 PM

No Right to be HERE ?

On the bright side .......................... soon we won't be !

And, others will still be arguing over the reasons for the warmer, cooler, dry or drenched seasons.

Having NO effect and reaching NO agreement.

It's a cosmic joke.

On US.

Just say "F" it, have a beer and go for a swim.

azucena - 8-11-2018 at 09:54 PM

Mr Bill M

It sounds to me from reading some of your earlier posts ( and perhaps, I hope, they were in jest) that you have no worries because you are speaking with "God". If so, may I ask which "God" :biblical, muslim, hindu, buddist, catholic, there really is a huge list.

My only thought is when one thinks they have a direct line to some "God" that perhaps they have a line to their own narcissism.

The issue of Climate Change is really, non controversial. The earth's climate has changed often, radically for much longer then our mere human existance. Are we exacerbating/ escalating it? Quite likely by the sheer stress so many humans have on a limited sphere. Can we do something to mitgate it?
Maybe we can. And that is why we don't sit back and have a beer and disengage. IF we can do something to preserve what we have for our children, grandchildren, don't we have the moral onus and caring to do so?
I sincerely hope so/

God's Got IT !

MrBillM - 8-12-2018 at 08:06 AM

"Harvey" (As he likes to be called by those of us on his Direct-Connect celestial Friends list, cautions that the Bible (in its various permutations) is, in general, mostly accurate in its portrayal of events and attendant moral guiding principles, BUT like all (or most) Ghost-Written autobiographies, there is the tendency for the Ghost or, in this case, Ghosts to interpret, enhance, embellish and expand in the interests of improving story flow, attracting additional readers and improving sales.

Heavenly Harvey often clashed with the writers during collaboration, sometimes insisting on corrections while sometimes accepting their arguments in favor of literary license improving the action and driving home an important point.

The result has been the record-setting sales of an historical work which, obviously, validates the editing strategy of producing a lively, action-packed allegorical philosophical guide for navigating life.

In the original first edition, there was an initial disclaimer in the forward that certain places, events and persons may have been altered for promotional purposes, but Harvey thought that it would detract from the acceptance of the guide.

As to the Global Warming question ....................... Obviously we are in a period of warming. Those who don't recognize that are just plain dumb. Which is why one hears so much denial from Donald devotees. While there are valid debating points regarding the earthly causes and responsibility as well as debate over the eventual resolution, it IS Harvey that's in charge.

He's a bit vague on what he intends to do at this point, but I'm sure that the subject will continue to come up in our gab sessions.

Stay tuned, I'll share what he says.

SFandH - 8-12-2018 at 08:42 AM

Great Ceasar's ghost! Harvey is not in charge. It's physics as expressed by mathematics which is based on pure logic. There is nothing supernatural about climate change.

Harvey says ..............................

MrBillM - 8-12-2018 at 09:34 AM

Balderdash.

The Universe is his Divine Domain. While there IS that (often bitter) ongoing family squabble between him and his Brudder gone Bad Lucifer (whom he derisively calls "Lucy"), ANYTHING that occurs on earth or elsewhere is under THEIR control.

It may seem (often) that things aren't going the way they would if God were in charge, BUT it's a BIG bureaucracy with millions of subordinates making billions of decisions daily. It should be obvious to anyone with an IQ above that of a Trumpster that things are going to slip through. The CEO just can't do EVERYTHING himself.

And, quite frankly, he is known to get into a snit and (sometimes) act impulsively. He takes that "Vengeance is MINE" seriously. Especially if some pitiful gripe relayed from the staff interrupts his Cribbage games.

God (Harvey) IS science. EVERYTHING is HIS invention.

Well, OK, El Diablo gets his fingers in here and there. The Internet is a prime example of a good idea gone to Hell, but many things are incorrectly laid at Lucy's doorstep. Some (like Trump) are Harvey's way of saying "that's what you get for not doing things MY way". I've pointed out that he's unfairly punishing those of us who followed the true path, but his response is usually "Tough Cookies" or a suitable profanity. He can get worked up.

Spend some time in prayerful communication. Harvey loves to gab when he's in the right mood. Grab one of his favorite beers (Stella Artois) and settle in for a rap fest.

Don't mention GOLF, though. He'll go on for hours and you won't get in a word edgewise.

SFandH - 8-12-2018 at 11:37 AM

If things "slip through" because the job is too demanding, THEY are not in control. You can't have it both ways, inept omniscience doesn't exist. Harvey, Lucy and the rest of the family, fallen or otherwise, at best quit work on the seventh day, and IMHO, didn't even work the previous week.

It is an interesting fictional family of characters though. Nephilim, such as Sandman Slim, are my favorites. Google it.

Seeing God.

MrBillM - 8-12-2018 at 12:05 PM

Come ON.

I see and talk to the Guy ALL the time. He looks just like Peter Ustinov.

But, his voice sounds like Edmund Gwenn's.

Usually wearing white robes like a Roman Senator.

Except when he's wearing his goofy golfing garb. Those knickers are LOUD. And, those argyle socks .................... only God could get away with those.

Paco Facullo - 8-12-2018 at 12:11 PM

"Except when he's wearing his goofy golfing garb. Those knickers are LOUD. And, those argyle socks .................... only God could get away with those."

The reason why White men golf is so that they can dress like Black men and get away with it ..................

chuckie - 8-12-2018 at 01:12 PM

I wondered....

Timinator - 8-13-2018 at 05:26 AM

Just another MIT Atmospheric Physicist with 200 published papers. Yea, I know, none of them were in Mother Earth News so he's a hack.

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/1950642161645297/

JoeJustJoe - 8-13-2018 at 06:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Timinator

Just another MIT Atmospheric Physicist with 200 published papers. Yea, I know, none of them were in Mother Earth News so he's a hack.

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/1950642161645297/

Timinator, Richard Lindzen, is just another hired gun loon, who grows more senile with age, and just about all his colleagues have denounce him, and signed petitions against his wrong denier views that have mostly been proven wrong.
___________
From rational wiki:

Richard Lindzen was an atmospheric physicist at MIT until May 2013;[1] as expected, he is now a "Distinguished Senior Fellow" at the Cato Institute.[2] He is also affiliated with the industry shill front group Heartland Institute.[3]

Lindzen is probably the one most responsible for the denialist talking point about models not taking clouds into account. The Lindzen-Choi paper is the most often cited, but it's been trashed by other scientists for poor methodology and overstating its conclusions.[5][6] Naturally, Lindzen's skepticism has attracted funding from fossil fuel interests and he's worked on projects underwritten by Exxon and OPEC.[7] He is trotted out by deniers as "proof" that "real scientists disagree" about global warming and that there is no scientific consensus, even though he does accept the theory (just not most of the predictions made by the IPCC). His op-eds in popular media have increasingly fallen back on refuted denier talking points as well. This makes him a massive enabler.

He has also appeared at the Heartland Institute's conferences as the keynote speaker. This makes him a really massive enabler.[8]

Senator Snowball has occasionally referred to Dick as a personal "hero"[9] for crusading against the liberal alarmists and their warmist agenda.

In the 90's, Dick reportedly charged "$2,500 a day for his 'consulting services'".[10]

Speaking of 90s, Dick often scoffs at Cook's famous 97% consensus statistic. Didn't anyone tell him to speak for himself?[11]

Lindzen's talent seems to be making repeatedly failed predictions as well as failing to get much of his material published in peer-reviewed journals in his more "skeptical" days.

Some other stuff he's been wrong about :

Claiming that the link between smoking and lung cancer is "weak."[12]
Satellite measurements showing no warming.[13]

Decrease in water vapor would allow carbon dioxide to escape from the atmosphere. (He has since accepted this as refuted and calls it an "old view.")[14]

Solar and volcanic forcings were severely downplayed to fudge data.[15]
Misrepresenting the link between warming and hurricanes.[16]
Dick is also a card-carrying member of the CO2 is Green crowd, saying: "controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." Can never have too much of a good thing, right? Right?

The Nutty Professor

While Lindzen was once merely 'skeptical' of the anthropogenic GHG effect's results, he appears to have become increasingly unhinged with age. Despite once considering those who dispute the anthropic GHG effect 'nutty', Dick wrote in the wingnut publication Merion West[17] in April 2017, attempting to discredit basically all widely accepted tenets of climate science. Not too different from his usual WSJ ramblings. Too bad he forgot to disclose his thoughtful gifts from Peabody.[18]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Richard_Lindzen
___________________________________

This idiot also denied the link between smoking and lung cancer, and surprise surprise, he was paid by the tobacco companies.
_________________

On Tobacco In a 2001 profile in Newsweek, journalist Fred Guterl wrote that Lindzen "clearly relishes the role of naysayer. He'll even expound on how weakly lung cancer is linked to cigarette smoking."[13] James Hansen recalls meeting Lindzen whilst testifying before the Vice President's Climate Task Force: "I considered asking Lindzen if he still believed there was no connection between smoking and lung cancer. He had been a witness for tobacco companies decades earlier, questioning the reliability of statistical connections between smoking and health problems. But I decided that would be too confrontational. When I met him at a later conference, I did ask that question, and was surprised by his response: He began rattling off all the problems with the data relating smoking to health problems, which was closely analogous to his views of climate data." [14]

From "source watch:"

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Richard_S._Lindzen

wessongroup - 8-13-2018 at 11:14 AM

Good to see the focus has moved back to science rather than "faith" ... Albeit .. mine is better than your's

Certainly agree about having a beer :biggrin:

[Edited on 8-13-2018 by wessongroup]

BajaNaranja - 8-13-2018 at 01:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wessongroup

Credit: ADAM NIEMAN/SCIENCE PHOTO LIBRARY

Caption: Global water and air volume. Conceptual computer artwork of the total volume of water on Earth (left) and of air in the Earth's atmosphere (right) shown as spheres (blue and pink). The spheres show how finite water and air supplies are. The water sphere measures 1390 kilometres across and has a volume of 1.4 billion cubic kilometres. This includes all the water in the oceans, seas, ice caps, lakes and rivers as well as ground water, and that in the atmosphere. The air sphere measures 1999 kilometres across and weighs 5140 trillion tonnes. As the atmosphere extends from Earth it becomes less dense. Half of the air lies within the first 5 kilometres of the atmosphere.
 

Good stuff, wessongroup. This is a really useful way to visualize how little atmosphere we 7.6 billion humans have to play with, when it comes to burning coal oil and gas and releasing carbon that's been locked up inside the earth for eons.

If anybody is actually reading and pondering, rather than just trying to pummel others with words.

The other easy way to see this is to look at photos taken from orbit, where you can see how thin the atmosphere is, almost in cross section... not much room for error, folks.

SFandH - 8-13-2018 at 01:49 PM

it's like an eggshell

And yet another huge source of carbon gases coming soon to an atmosphere near you

the melting permafrost, the frozen biomass is thawing

https://tinyurl.com/yctu5mtc

[Edited on 8-13-2018 by SFandH]

David K - 8-13-2018 at 02:30 PM

... and forest fires, volcanos, deep sea gas vents... Nature won't be undone by humans.

BajaNaranja - 8-13-2018 at 03:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Nature won't be undone by humans.

David K - 8-13-2018 at 03:56 PM

Yes, photos of human dirt... and 1 year from now, 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years, or more... Nature will still be in control and the human mess will be gone and forgotten... Humans may be here or moved to Mars by then.

When Yellowstone or another super-volcano erupts, or an asteroid hits earth (again), that will be a mess that makes your photos look trivial.

Trust me, Nature bats last!

Paco Facullo - 8-13-2018 at 04:04 PM

All really great reason's to live for today and do as many Baja and or other trips as possible , eat , drink and be merry while you are still able to.

I'll drink to THAT !

BajaNaranja - 8-13-2018 at 04:36 PM

OK OK, a couple of shots of Don Julio, but hold the totoaba!

LOL

fishbuck - 8-13-2018 at 04:51 PM

My pappy once told me on my birthday:

Son, alot has been said about wine, women, and song.
My advice to you if concentrate soley on woman...
You can sing and drink when you get old😉

David K - 8-13-2018 at 04:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNaranja

OK OK, a couple of shots of Don Julio, but hold the totoaba!

LOL

I can agree to that! Skøl

fishbuck - 8-13-2018 at 05:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Quote: Originally posted by BajaNaranja

OK OK, a couple of shots of Don Julio, but hold the totoaba!

LOL

I can agree to that! Skøl

Or married😆

blackwolfmt - 8-13-2018 at 05:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Yes, photos of human dirt... and 1 year from now, 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years, or more... Nature will still be in control and the human mess will be gone and forgotten... Humans may be here or moved to Mars by then.

When Yellowstone or another super-volcano erupts, or an asteroid hits earth (again), that will be a mess that makes your photos look trivial.

Trust me, Nature bats last!

RIGHT DK now you sound like a politician

azucena - 8-13-2018 at 09:20 PM

david k
Mars? Really? Another place for us to screw up ? While ignoring our responsibility for what we have done here?

I like you. You have conrtibuted so much here. You have much wisdom.

But this post of yours is really so very sad to me.

I know I cannot change your thinking, but the gift life does give us is to think, and reflect.

David K - 8-13-2018 at 10:27 PM

What thinking do you want to change...? I didn't post an opinion. I posted only the fact that Nature is FAR FAR greater than man and while man may make messes and clean up them too, there is nothing more destructible, powerful, and purifying than Nature.

You don't think Elon Musk (or someone else) can get us to Mars? I do, someday. Anyway, if we screw that up, there's always Arnold (as in Total Recall). :biggrin:

wessongroup - 8-14-2018 at 07:33 AM

Totally agree David K ... As we have fossil records to support that very fact ... btw the ice core samples went back 650 million years ... think about it

ARTICLEShttps://doi.org/10.1038/s41559-018-0627-y1Museum of Paleontology, Department of Geological Sciences, Brigham Young University, Provo, UT, USA. 2Institut Català de Paleontologia Miquel Crusafont, Sabadell, Spain. 3Dinosaur National Monument, National Park Service, Jensen, UT, USA. 4Department of Geography and Geology, University of Nebraska at Omaha, Omaha, NE, USA. 5Department of Biology and Monte L. Bean Life Science Museum, Brigham Young University, Provo, UT, USA. *e-mail: brooks_britt@byu.eduPterosaurs are extinct archosaurs that ranged from the Late Triassic to the Late Cretaceous (around 215− 66 million years ago) and were the first vertebrates to attain powered flight. Their extremely fragile skeletons are rare, and their record is strongly biased towards marine and lacustrine depositional environments1–3. The unequivocal record of Triassic pterosaurs consists of fewer than 30 specimens, including single bones3,4. They are known exclusively from marine strata in the Alps (Italy, Austria and Switzerland), except for Arcticodactylus cromptonellus from fluvial deposits in Greenland3 (Fig. 1). Fragmentary remains and isolated teeth in Upper Triassic rocks of the USA have been referred to pterosaurs (see references within ref. 4, as well as refs 5,6; A. K. Behrensmeyer, personal communication), but these referrals have been shown to be unsubstantiated, are ambiguous, or are not yet adequately sup-ported or reported3,5. The high degree of homoplasy in multicusped teeth among cynodonts, pterosaurs and tanystropheids3,4,7,8 makes the referral of isolated teeth and fragmentary tooth-bearing ele-ments to pterosaurs problematic.Here, we present unequivocal evidence of a Triassic pterosaur from the western hemisphere outside Greenland. The specimen, BYU 20707, is from the Saints & Sinners Quarry in the Nugget Sandstone of Utah (Fig. 1). Its significance lies in: (1) its excep-tional state of preservation, which reveals details obscured in other early pterosaurs; (2) its close phylogenetic relationship with Dimorphodon macronyx from the lowermost Jurassic of the UK; and (3) its desert habitat.ResultsPalaeoenvironment and fauna. Arid conditions dominated what is now western North America for up to around 45 Myr from the Late Triassic through the Middle Jurassic9, and desertification produced a sand sea that covered some 2.2 million km2 (Fig. 1). This vast sand dune complex is divided into the Nugget Sandstone (primarily in northeastern Utah and Wyoming) and its stratigraphic equivalents, the Aztec Sandstone and Glen Canyon Group, to the south9,10 (Fig. 1)The Saints & Sinners Quarry is within the Nugget Sandstone, approximately 65 m above the top of the underlying Chinle Formation (Fig. 2a). The quarry is within interdunal sediments bounded above and below by aeolian sands (Fig. 2b). The bones are preserved in structureless, silty fine-grained sandstone deposited in the shallow, near-shore waters of an interdunal lake into which dunes were migrating11. The quarry has yielded > 18,000 bones and bone fragments of 9 tetrapod taxa: the pterosaur described herein, a coelophysoid theropod dinosaur, a medium-sized theropod of unknown affinity, 2 crocodylomorphs, 2 sphenodontians, a drepa-nosaurid and a procolophonid.The Nugget Sandstone spans the Triassic–Jurassic bound-ary but the boundary’s position within the formation is unre-solved10–12. Drepanosauromorphs and procolophonids, however, are known exclusively from the Carnian to Rhaetian13 and Permian to Rhaetian14, respectively. These taxa, and evidences in ref. 11, indicate that: (1) the quarry horizon is latest Triassic (probably late Norian or Rhaetian) in age; and (2) the Triassic–Jurassic boundary within the Nugget Sandstone lies somewhere above the quarry.Systematic palaeontology. Pterosauria Kaup, 1834Dimorphodontidae Seeley, 1870Caelestiventus hanseni gen. et sp. nov.Etymology. C. hanseni comes from the Latin language: caelestis, ‘heavenly or divine’, and ventus, ‘wind’, referring to the volant nature of pterosaurs, and ‘hanseni’, honouring Robin L. Hansen, Bureau of Land Management (BLM) geologist, who facilitated work at the Saints & Sinners Quarry.Caelestiventus hanseni gen. et sp. nov. extends the desert-dwelling pterosaur record back 65 million years

Some species do better than others ... or call it the luck of the draw ... I do :biggrin:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-018-0627-y.epdf?refer...

and Bahaman thanks and spot on .. It is the simple point ... WE® do leave a mess ... some more than others and it all adds up ... atoms that is

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by wessongroup]

JoeJustJoe - 8-14-2018 at 07:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

What thinking do you want to change...? I didn't post an opinion. I posted only the fact that Nature is FAR FAR greater than man and while man may make messes and clean up them too, there is nothing more destructible, powerful, and purifying than Nature.

You don't think Elon Musk (or someone else) can get us to Mars? I do, someday. Anyway, if we screw that up, there's always Arnold (as in Total Recall). :biggrin:

Nice indirect "denier" augment, blame nature FAR FAR greater than any damage that man can make. However, when it comes to global warming, these kind of indirect augments falls on it's face, when looking at all the scientific evidence that global warming is real, and mostly man made from the Industrial age on.

And Wesson wrote:" Totally agree David K ... As we have fossil records to support that very fact ... btw the ice core samples went back 650 million years ... think about it."

I'm always at a lost over Wesson, finding ways to agree with "deniers."

Do you really totally agree with David K?

BTW Wesson, you link is unreadable, go back and put the paragraphs where they belong when you first copied and pasted the article.

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by JoeJustJoe]

wessongroup - 8-14-2018 at 08:00 AM

Yes... about his point on "nature" having the final word ... "nature" is an evolutionary factors which act on all life ... ON this planet .. IMO

That some do not observe the same "risk" is expected ... as we are human and our indiviudal genetic makeup is differenct along with our cognitive abilities and life experience ... Which is also part of evolution of the human species

I don't get upset if some don't see the same thing exactly as I do ... Free country and everyone has an opinion .. and all part of evolution and/or "nature" :biggrin:

btw did you read the article ? ... Here's another good one based on fossil evidence supported by dating methods described in the article :biggrin:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/oldest-human-out...

Hope I answered your question :biggrin:

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by wessongroup]

Paco Facullo - 8-14-2018 at 08:05 AM

The more I realize about people, the more I like Dogs....

The link works fine on google chrome

wessongroup - 8-14-2018 at 08:10 AM

Fossil The "link" works fine ... on Google Chrome

JoeJustJoe - 8-14-2018 at 08:54 AM

Wesson, I can't wait to you find a way to agree with Timinator too.

David K - 8-14-2018 at 09:12 AM

Joe, why get worked up over any of this?
If you think humans are more powerful than Nature (or God) and that all the past 'global warmings' that took us out of all the past ice ages, without humans, you are denying reality, are you not?
It is just convenient for those with a political agenda to say that this 'warming' is human-created because humans can be taxed.
Live clean, enjoy life, respect others.

fishbuck - 8-14-2018 at 09:30 AM

You all have valid comments.
But please give humans some credit for trying to fix this... at least the part man is responsible for.
If you want to know who is not trying to clean up look at China.
At one point China constructed 1 coal fired power plant PER DAY!
The United States of America does not construct ANY new coal plants and is decommissioning coal plants at a rapid pace.
Renewable energy production has never been higher and in fact California produces an Excess of solar electricity. It's a problem in fact. It hard to dispose of and is a threat to the infrastructure we all have counted on to run our lives since we were born.
We were all born into a system established on energy production based on fossil fuel.
Blame you parent, grandparents, etc.
But really... if you feel so strongly then you can send yourself back to the stone age anytime you want.
Just don't pay your electric bill and throw your car keys in the trash.
Put up or shut up.
Please.

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by fishbuck]

caj13 - 8-14-2018 at 10:48 AM

Hey Timmie,
I'm hoping you enjoy the Irony of this: So your posts here and responses, and unanswered questions etc, so I have now included them in my Intro Biology classes - under scientific literacy, and evaluating claims made!
essentially , we look at claims you made - polar bear fecundity going up, ice cores show no change "I am an atmospheric scientist" data destroyed, data inaccurate, degrees dont matter - unless your Prager, ? huh? predictions of ice caps disapearing in 25 years by models, model inacuracies (ggod one, gives me a chance to educate them on models,
witholding proof data, updating models, verifying them, accuracy etc) etc etc etc.

and the students themselves do some searching and thinking, about those claims.

guess what? 175 students, and so far every one of them has found multiple logical fallacies in your posts on this subject. 18 year old freshman poking holes in your claims and declarations!

Just thought you would be happy to know you are playing an important role in the education of future scientists! You are the gift that keeps giving - keep up the good work!

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by caj13]

fishbuck - 8-14-2018 at 11:01 AM

Ok since we gonna get college boy about it.
What your refering to is Consenual Validation.
Which means if 175 18 year olds say the earth is flat yet 1 says the earth is round then by shear numbers the 175 people are correct.
So is the earth round or flat....?
I mean we all know that 18 year olds are never wrong... right?

SFandH - 8-14-2018 at 11:46 AM

Record seawater temperature measured at Scripps Pier

http://sdnews.com/view/full_story/27590431/article-Record-se...

The global heat wave that's been killing us

https://www.dw.com/en/the-global-heat-wave-thats-been-killin...

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by SFandH]

fishbuck - 8-14-2018 at 12:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Record seawater temperature measured at Scripps Pier

http://sdnews.com/view/full_story/27590431/article-Record-se...

Thanks.
I don't think anyone is denying climate change. We know that is a fact.
Look at the changes in fish species for "Anecdotal evidence".
Albecore which like cooler water now make landfall much farther north. From San Francisco north.
A few years ago we caught them south of San Diego.
I believe the only debate is why?
Manmade (and what percent) or naturally ocurring (and what percent).
If you want to blame someone other than God you will probably try to blame the U.S. and extort money from us.
You ain't getting my money. :cool:

Udo - 8-14-2018 at 12:16 PM

The last few days, according to San Diego's channel 10 news, the water temperature at the pier has been right around 81º.

caj13 - 8-14-2018 at 12:22 PM

Quote: Originally posted by fishbuck

Ok since we gonna get college boy about it.
What your refering to is Consenual Validation.
Which means if 175 18 year olds say the earth is flat yet 1 says the earth is round then by shear numbers the 175 people are correct.
So is the earth round or flat....?
I mean we all know that 18 year olds are never wrong... right?

No - completely wrong: its "here are some claims made - in their own words. do some research, does your research support or conflict with the statement."
how credible do you judge your sources to be, as compared to original sources by the claimant? (hard, since he has studiously avoided posting any links to data, claims he made etc, But thats part of the evaluation process! validity of sources! it matters!
Thats all - that simple,
You make a claim, you ought to be held accountable!

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by caj13]

SFandH - 8-14-2018 at 12:41 PM

"The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) has reaffirmed the position of its Board of Directors and the leaders of 18 respected organizations, who concluded based on multiple lines of scientific evidence that global climate change caused by human activities is now underway, and it is a growing threat to society.

“The vast preponderance of evidence, based on years of research conducted by a wide array of different investigators at many institutions, clearly indicates that global climate change is real, it is caused largely by human activities, and the need to take action is urgent,” said Alan I. Leshner, chief executive officer of AAAS and executive publisher of the journal Science."

https://www.aaas.org/news/aaas-reaffirms-statements-climate-...

JoeJustJoe - 8-14-2018 at 12:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Joe, why get worked up over any of this?
If you think humans are more powerful than Nature (or God) and that all the past 'global warmings' that took us out of all the past ice ages, without humans, you are denying reality, are you not?
It is just convenient for those with a political agenda to say that this 'warming' is human-created because humans can be taxed.
Live clean, enjoy life, respect others.

David K, I'm not worked up over anything you said, I'm just shocked Wesson, fell for your misdirection hook, line, and sinker. But why am I not surprise, Lobsterman, always did that to Wesson too, before Lobsterman, left the forum because he lost a bet.

willardguy - 8-14-2018 at 01:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

"The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) has reaffirmed the position of its Board of Directors and the leaders of 18 respected organizations, who concluded based on multiple lines of scientific evidence that global climate change caused by human activities is now underway, and it is a growing threat to society.

“The vast preponderance of evidence, based on years of research conducted by a wide array of different investigators at many institutions, clearly indicates that global climate change is real, it is caused largely by human activities, and the need to take action is urgent,” said Alan I. Leshner, chief executive officer of AAAS and executive publisher of the journal Science."

https://www.aaas.org/news/aaas-reaffirms-statements-climate-...

that may be true.....but here in nomadland its what "the World According to David" (WAD) has to say!

SFandH - 8-14-2018 at 02:26 PM

Being an American, I'm wondering how I can capitalize on this worldwide phenomenon. Take Miami Beach. Oodles of money, EXPENSIVE homes, and the place is getting soggier by the year. Ocean water is coming UP the storm drains into the streets. Solar powered water pumps? Inflatable water barriers? Wet doggie alarms? There has to be something.

But I like passive income now that I'm part of the leisure class. Dividends, rents, growth equities, that's for me.

Perhaps it's time for a catastrophic climate change hedge fund. Heck, I would be taxed at lower rate than my secretary. 8^)

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by SFandH]

fishbuck - 8-14-2018 at 02:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Being an American, I'm wondering how I can capitalize on this worldwide phenomenon. Take Miami Beach. Oodles of money, EXPENSIVE homes, and the place is getting soggier by the year. Ocean water is coming UP the storm drains into the streets. Solar powered water pumps? Inflatable water barriers? Wet doggie alarms? There has to be something.

But I like passive income now that I'm part of the leisure class. Dividends, rents, growth equities, that's for me.

Perhaps it's time for a catastrophic climate change hedge fund. Heck, I would be taxed at lower rate than my secretary. 8^)

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by SFandH]

I like it. Spoken like a true entrepreneurial, free market American.
How can I make money on this?
Maybe we can convert those Florida houses into houseboats. Start now and when the sea level gets to your neighborhood, just float yourself above it.
You"ll be then envy of the hood!

SFandH - 8-14-2018 at 02:51 PM

Jersey Shore houses being rebuilt after superstorm Sandy are being put up on stilts. But that's too much work this incipient geezer.

Maybe a website selling Soggy Doggie WiFi alarms with a built-in GPS locator would work.

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by SFandH]

John Harper - 8-14-2018 at 03:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Maybe a website selling Soggy Doggie WiFi alarms with a built-in GPS locator would work.

Combine it all. Doggie floatation vest, GPS/EPIRB locator, WiFi alarm. Put a loop on the back for a leash and you can walk your dog and be ready for global sea level rise. Might even include some pockets for doggie emergency food rations to pull in the "prepper" market!

John

[Edited on 8-14-2018 by John Harper]

Listen to God

MrBillM - 8-16-2018 at 07:35 AM

Who says ......................... "Pay attention. My Ways are (sometimes) Mysterious !"

"Often confusing even ME !"

"We'll have a good laugh (and a Stella Artois) over it when you arrive. Unless, of course, you end up in that other Hotspot where laughter is a foreign word and they don't even have Bud Light. Tough Luck, there."

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