BajaNomad - Hurricane Kay - Powered by XMB

This live map shows the hurricane's eye 'kissing' Shari's place right now: https://zoom.earth/storms/kay-2022/#overlays=radar

"every kiss begins with Kay"

mtgoat666 - 9-8-2022 at 04:14 PM

Vizcaino Hoy is posting pics of damage…

Very interesting storm track

AKgringo - 9-8-2022 at 04:17 PM

Several of the storm forecast sites show that Kay may make a U-turn before it reaches San Diego, then head southeast a bit farther offshore.

David K - 9-8-2022 at 04:25 PM

Eye of hurricane nearly over Bahia Tortugas.

gnukid - 9-8-2022 at 06:33 PM

Any news from Punta Abreojos or La Bocana on the pacific? Looks like it passed and only left a little wind damage?

Thursday evening its over the gulf off San Felipe with wind and rain.

[Edited on 9-9-2022 by gnukid]

Don Pisto - 9-8-2022 at 06:44 PM

Any news from Punta Abreojos or La Bocana on the pacific? Looks like it passed and only left a little wind damage?

Thursday evening its over the gulf off San Felipe with wind and rain.

[Edited on 9-9-2022 by gnukid]

abreojos..

[Edited on 9-9-2022 by BajaNomad]

mtgoat666 - 9-8-2022 at 08:52 PM

The Guerrerodesal Facebook page seems to be posting quite a few photos of damage for central peninsula.

Bajazly - 9-8-2022 at 09:33 PM

Ain't much of didly up this way yet. Ground is wet so that is exciting, it's the first time in over a year. I don't hold high hopes of much here, hope I'm wrong.

David K - 9-9-2022 at 03:15 AM

La Bocana cabañas, Thursday (from Blanca): https://www.facebook.com/groups/vivabaja/permalink/107711981...

David K - 9-9-2022 at 04:18 AM

Heavy damage from water and wind being reported from the South Campos (San Felipe to Puertecitos) and in San Felipe.

A few comments from the area Facebook groups:

"Omg..the casita in front of me has lifted off its foundation. I am shaking so bad."

"Rain and wind very bad in south campos. Between the wind, rain and pounding surf, it sounds like a freight train. Have no idea what is going on outside"

"I am at Victor Camp. This is horrible. The palapa is gone. The walkway along the beach is gone."

"We are at km 31. It looks like the worst storm surge we have had in some time. Hope all are safe and we have a home to go back to."

San Felipe Video: https://fb.watch/fqTeTykJlW/

[Edited on 9-9-2022 by David K]

BajaNomad - 9-9-2022 at 06:08 AM

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_ep2+shtml/114939.shtml?cone#contents

114939_5day_cone_no_line_and_wind.png - 70kB

BajaMama - 9-9-2022 at 07:41 AM

There was A LOT of rain in the Santa Rosalia Mulege area yesterday. Anyone in the Punta Chivato area have pics of damage. I realize most probably don''t have internet at the moment, but please pose when you do

San Felipe KM 46

RFClark - 9-9-2022 at 08:09 AM

It could have been a whole lot worse mostly wind but not a lot of rain. There’s mud in the ocean so water flowed in somewhere in the area.

Best I can tell no major damage at our place or in view of our cameras. As always a few leaks around the doors and windows.

No water running in the Arroyo at this time.

Peak wind last night 62mph rain .6 to 2 inches currently raining some wind 20mph

All wether stations in South Campos still reporting.

Alfancinos at Gonzaga Bay is off line.

All stations in San Felipe are off line.

9A02E132-3CC1-4DFD-8D83-20FF9ECBE2EB.jpeg - 127kB

[Edited on 9-9-2022 by RFClark]

0238FCEB-475C-45E3-BC95-F9A181F0EF1B.jpeg - 265kB

Skipjack Joe - 9-9-2022 at 09:42 AM

Guerrero Negro got hammered.

305466090_5632471883470482_8586398119068395398_n2.jpg - 180kB

Skipjack Joe - 9-9-2022 at 09:46 AM

Guerrero Negro

305497556_5632469716804032_2900660922707083655_n2.jpg - 237kB

bajatrailrider - 9-9-2022 at 09:48 AM

Nothing big San Vicente last night little rain wind . 7am rain few hours damp dirt now.

SFandH - 9-9-2022 at 10:37 AM

San Felipe

SFandH - 9-9-2022 at 10:40 AM

Mulege - this is the road under the highway bridge.

mulege.jpg - 108kB

David K - 9-9-2022 at 10:44 AM

Nothing big San Vicente last night little rain wind . 7am rain few hours damp dirt now.

How about photos of the San Vicente River... including as it goes under Hwy. 1 (if that bridge is still there!)?

David K - 9-9-2022 at 11:20 AM

SCORE has suspended pre-running for next week's Baja 400: https://score-international.com/raceinfo/weather-advisory-no...

SFandH - 9-9-2022 at 12:44 PM

Bahia de Los Angeles

bola.jpg - 93kB

Don Pisto - 9-9-2022 at 12:46 PM

barely knocked the dirt off my car south of rosarito. the oddest thing was the crazy humidity drove subterranean termites into my house by the thousands, at midnight they were in full party mode,this morning they were all dead!

[Edited on 9-9-2022 by Don Pisto]

bajatrailrider - 9-9-2022 at 12:49 PM

Nothing big San Vicente last night little rain wind . 7am rain few hours damp dirt now.

How about photos of the San Vicente River... including as it goes under Hwy. 1 (if that bridge is still there!)?

Dry as a bone David

Spot Message from Graham in L.A. Bay:

David K - 9-10-2022 at 11:34 AM

Message: In LA Bay. No power. Drying house. Take days. We're good. Any news roads. Shari, Abreojos? Hope you're OK. Hope power and internet soon.

bajatrailrider - 9-11-2022 at 10:29 AM

Anybody pass Viscanio North . Have friend stuck there says road washed out nobody can pass?

AKgringo - 9-11-2022 at 10:34 AM

Anybody pass Viscanio North . Have friend stuck there says road washed out nobody can pass?

I'll bet it is the same wash that has been wiped out by much less rainfall in previous years. There should be enough equipment around there to get it open, even if it's a bit rough for a while.

bajatrailrider - 9-11-2022 at 10:38 AM

As of this morning no go they will update me. As they wish to take bus north.

Hook - 9-11-2022 at 10:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BajaMama

There was A LOT of rain in the Santa Rosalia Mulege area yesterday. Anyone in the Punta Chivato area have pics of damage. I realize most probably don''t have internet at the moment, but please pose when you do

Accuweather has a graphic that says that Mulege received the most rain in Mexico from Kay. Greater than 14 inches. Wish I knew where that weather station reports.

The one station at Punta Chivato accumulated only 0.62 inches during the passing of Kay. It appears to have stayed online the entire time.

bajatrailrider - 9-11-2022 at 11:10 AM

Some have internet as amigo reporting to me last 3 days. From Mulege

Don Pisto - 9-11-2022 at 11:24 AM

As of this morning no go they will update me. As they wish to take bus north.

RIDE BAJA reporting still no way around...

[Edited on 9-11-2022 by Don Pisto]

David K - 9-11-2022 at 12:44 PM

Latest posts showing an elevated detour road going in. Pics posted on VivaBaja Group page...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/vivabaja/permalink/107929460...

Villa JM detour 9-11-22.jpg - 44kB

[Edited on 9-11-2022 by David K]

bajatrailrider - 9-11-2022 at 02:24 PM

Bus depo my end says 5 washouts at least a week or month to pass

Don Pisto - 9-11-2022 at 04:33 PM

she's not quite done, major flooding in Tecate....

Alm - 9-11-2022 at 06:04 PM

Electricity is on in Bahia de LA, as of this morning. Road to town temporarily repaired by soldiers, detours, passable with 4WD.

crowbar - 9-12-2022 at 06:03 AM

What did Kay do to HWY 5 from San Felipe south to HWY 1.

David K - 9-12-2022 at 06:19 AM

Rock slides near Coco's Corner and the flooded lagoon crossing near the harbor were the photos I saw. The bridges held up... unlike the October 2018 flash floods! Rock slide photo is posted on my VivaBaja Facebook group.
Here is the photo: https://www.facebook.com/groups/vivabaja/permalink/107860679...

[Edited on 9-12-2022 by David K]

Punta Chivato Weather Station

Fastbird - 9-12-2022 at 06:24 AM

I have the weather station at Punta Chivato which is on my casa roof and just east of the runway (PCH). It seems my rain gauge drain stuck open after the rains on September 2&3. So it missed the rain from Kay but not the winds which gusted to 60 mph. Except for the rain gauge, all equipment worked 100% thru the storms.

Between Loreto and La Paz...

David K - 9-12-2022 at 06:41 AM

The road out to Los Burros (Ensenada Cortés) located just south of Los Dolores was destroyed as all the dirt was washed away leaving just rocks. Modes Amador of Rancho La Capilla (La Pasión de Chillá mission site and campground) took photos and shared along with a note that the government is of no assistance on the road.
PHOTOS: https://www.facebook.com/groups/vivabaja/permalink/107951068...

SFandH - 9-12-2022 at 07:54 AM

I wonder if the buses are running.

I went to the ABC website but no news was posted and the reservation system isn't working.

bajatrailrider - 9-12-2022 at 10:24 AM

We are getting a little rain right now in San Vicente. I know highway 1 cut off in 5 places from Baja sur. Note to David San Vicente wash under bridge . As of today still bone dry it will take more then Kay to send us water. What I have noticed in last 20 years many new ranchos . Up stream taking all running water away form lower ranchos and cities.

Hook - 9-12-2022 at 03:08 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Fastbird

I have the weather station at Punta Chivato which is on my casa roof and just east of the runway (PCH). It seems my rain gauge drain stuck open after the rains on September 2&3. So it missed the rain from Kay but not the winds which gusted to 60 mph. Except for the rain gauge, all equipment worked 100% thru the storms.

Thanks. That explains the huge discrepancy between rainfall amounts in Mulege and PC.

What internet source are you using out there?

[Edited on 9-12-2022 by Hook]

John Harper - 9-12-2022 at 04:18 PM

What I have noticed in last 20 years many new ranchos . Up stream taking all running water away form lower ranchos and cities.

Yep, whiskey's for drinking, water's for fighting over. Just like here in the USA. I hope some Baja trout find a place to survive in the future. The arroyo through Mike's was a good choice to relocate them so many years ago, it may be their last refuge except for the now protected (hopefully) La Grulla area. I'm sure there was a torrent coming down from the canyon upstream. Maybe take a run out there during our Thanksgiving break and take a look.

John

[Edited on 9-12-2022 by John Harper]

David K - 9-12-2022 at 04:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

I hope some Baja trout find a place to survive in the future. The arroyo through Mike's was a good choice to relocate them so many years ago, it may be their last refuge except for the now protected (hopefully) La Grulla area. I'm sure there was a torrent coming down from the canyon upstream. Maybe take a run out there during our Thanksgiving break and take a look.

John

Hi John,
Not sure if you have seen it before, but a few years ago, I posted a link to the history of how the trout "climbed" San Pedro Mártir...". They were helped by a man named C.E. Utt from 1929 to 1937+, who transplanted the Baja native species from the one creek they were still living in, to the other running creeks. I have these links on my Viva Baja web page, as well...

Text: http://www.leighrobertson.net/trout.html

Charles Edward Utt, catching trout in Baja to transplant (1929-1937)

John Harper - 9-12-2022 at 06:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

Charles Edward Utt, catching trout in Baja to transplant (1929-1937)

Yes, I have studied that history for a long time. It's an amazing story, thank you for posting that link. I was aware of it before, after a story in the San Diego Reader long ago about a rattlesnake incident at La Grulla. When it mentioned trout, I was determined to find out about them. And have actually caught and released them. Kind of like your mission quest.

John

John

Hook - 9-12-2022 at 09:57 PM

Are those trout actually indigenous, or were they introduced?

Keithcapt - 9-13-2022 at 12:25 AM

Cool stuff David, Thank you
I read about this in the past somewhere And also saw a vid of a older guy with his sons catching and releasing then ( no barbs & Don't touch um) it's amazing to me that we've never met.. Maybe Manana.. That I always laugh at Gringos that think it means Tomorrow.
NOT !! It means just NOT Today
.....

Internet in Punta Chivato

Fastbird - 9-13-2022 at 06:54 AM

Several of us homeowners have been and continue to use Viasat for internet. It has been doing the job very well for years. I run a weather station, camera and battery system 24/7. Also works for streaming.

steve5555 - 9-13-2022 at 07:29 AM

The trout down there is a very cool Baja story. Amazing.

steve

David K - 9-13-2022 at 07:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Hook

Are those trout actually indigenous, or were they introduced?

Utt transplanted them from one stream to others, but they were native Baja trout...

Perhaps left over from the Ice Age... from Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baja_California_rainbow_trout

"The Baja California rainbow trout or San Pedro Martir trout or Nelson's trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss nelsoni) is a localized subspecies of the rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss), a freshwater fish in the family Salmonidae.

Baja California rainbow trout is one of many species of Mexican native trout.

It is endemic to headwater tributaries of the Rio Santo Domingo in the Sierra de San Pedro Mártir mountain range of the Peninsular Ranges System, located in Baja California state on the northern Baja California Peninsula."

David K - 9-13-2022 at 07:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Fastbird

Several of us homeowners have been and continue to use Viasat for internet. It has been doing the job very well for years. I run a weather station, camera and battery system 24/7. Also works for streaming.

Thank you for having that weather station! Can you give us the web address so we can see it too?

mtgoat666 - 9-13-2022 at 09:21 AM

Quote: Originally posted by lencho

They were helped by a man named C.E. Utt from 1929 to 1937+, who transplanted the Baja native species from the one creek they were still living in, to the other running creeks.

Well that's a blast from the past:

I attended C.E. Utt Middle School in Tustin, and never had a clue why it was named that way. :wow:

Remember When: Rancher, developer, businessman, civic leader
Rancher, developer, businessman, civic leader and man of much enterprise described the career of Tustin's Charles Edward Utt, better known as C.E., or Ed.

Coming to Tustin with his parents, Lysander and Emily Arvilla Utt, at the age of 8, he completed Tustin Grammar School and worked at an assortment of jobs until his father died, leaving him in charge of the L. Utt Pioneer Store in 1891. He managed the store for about two years before selling it and ending his merchandising career.

In 1896 he bought the floundering Water Works from the Willard Brothers and eventually turned it into a successful operation, which he renamed Tustin Water Works. Although his stepson Walter Rawlings eventually took over the management, Utt remained part of the operation. The City of Tustin purchased the water works in 1982.

Utt served on the board of directors for Tustin's first bank, Bank of Tustin, which opened in 1888 and closed in 1902. When the First National Bank of Tustin opened in 1911, he served on the board of directors and later became president.

A great believer in education, Utt served on the Tustin Grammar School District Board and played a prominent role in the organization of the Tustin Union High School District. C.E. Utt Middle School recognizes his contributions to education.

Utt began his agricultural career with Sherman Stevens in 1906 and soon became known as one of Orange County's most progressive agriculturists. The two leased 1,000 acres from James Irvine and organized the San Joaquin Fruit Co. After they planted Valencia oranges, lemons, and walnuts on the property, Utt introduced the practice of growing beans, peanuts and chilies between the rows until the trees came into production. Around 1914 Utt planted a vineyard on Lemon Heights where he had built a home. The abundance of grapes produced on this acreage led him to another business adventure, The Utt Juice Co. After bottling grape juice on his back porch for several years, giving it away to family and friends, Utt expanded the operation and moved into a building which he owned at the corner of Prospect and Main. Archie Schellhous, who soon joined him as a partner in establishing the Queen Isabella brand of juice, jams and jellies, took over the business in 1931. Utt was one of the first to plant peanuts and chilies as crops in the Tustin area. Soon he was producing many sacks of peanuts for the market and became known as the "Peanut King." He also gained recognition by inventing a chili dry house to replace the method of curing peppers by laying them in the sun to dry. Although not as picturesque as the colorful strings of red peppers reflecting the sunlight, the drying shed was much more efficient.

Eventually the San Joaquin Fruit Co. used their experience gained on the Irvine Ranch to develop property in Ventura County. Utt formed the Utt Development Co. in Oxnard and developed ranches in the Simi Valley and Point Magu areas. It was said that Utt, who died in 1951, had grown every major crop possible in Orange County with the exception of sugar beets.

(Article by Juanita Lovret, Orange County Register, February 3, 2009)

mtgoat666 - 9-13-2022 at 09:25 AM

and here are some tales from spawn of ce utt...

http://www.leighrobertson.net/grandfathers.html

[Edited on 9-13-2022 by mtgoat666]

David K - 9-13-2022 at 01:04 PM

Utt was quite the dynamo!

Back on subject: L.A. Bay highway was been made passable. Photos being posted on Facebook, and shared onto VivaBaja group. Here are direct links:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/vivabaja/permalink/108059922...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/vivabaja/permalink/108059499...

JDCanuck - 9-13-2022 at 05:55 PM

It truly is amazing what a tremendous amount of damage unrestrained water is capable of causing. Hopefully future Baja governments can learn from other countries and start redirecting and harnessing all that power.

gnukid - 9-13-2022 at 06:42 PM

If Baja had more dams and recovered water drains systems we would be better off.

John Harper - 9-13-2022 at 06:50 PM

If Baja had more dams and recovered water drains systems we would be better off.

Granted. But, who's gonna pay for it?

Seen pictures of Lake Mead lately? Dams don't help if there is no water.

And. who has these magical water drain systems for storm water? New Orleans? Pakistan? Kentucky?

It must be nice to always live in the clouds. The rest of us have to deal with reality.

John

[Edited on 9-14-2022 by John Harper]

Punta Chivato PWS

Fastbird - 9-13-2022 at 08:34 PM

This is the web address for my weather station:

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IMULEG3?cm_ven=lo...

JDCanuck - 9-13-2022 at 08:46 PM

Norway is a leader in harnessing water, deriving 99 percent of their power from it, and selling all their petroleum globally to build a massive investment fund. Last time i looked, theïr Oil Fund" had amassed over 250G per citizen. Thats a pretty substantial investment return.

Bajazly - 9-13-2022 at 08:58 PM

If Baja had more dams and recovered water drains systems we would be better off.

And if it had a better climate and plenty of water with lush green golf courses there would be 20 million people here and it would turn into a chit hole. If you like where you came from so much and want where you moved to be like home, why are you where you are instead of back home?

gnukid - 9-14-2022 at 04:26 AM

We have a few damns in BCS, most have no infrastructure, now we are at capacity with overflow, with a new storm on the way..

Most of our water is spring fed. Now the water is full of organic and inorganic matter.

La Paz has some reclamation and treatment that also supports farming which has been there for as long as I remember.

Each storm creates damage to infrastructure and death due to lack of drainage culverts, while we are still short of water most of the time, it seems like a no brainer to invest some effort in more underground water storage and water treatment of reclaimed water.

mtgoat666 - 9-14-2022 at 06:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bajazly

If Baja had more dams and recovered water drains systems we would be better off.

Arguing to limit infrastructure so opportunities for development are limited, and locals do not prosper, so expat pensioners are kept happy…. :no:

JDCanuck - 9-14-2022 at 07:55 AM

Gnukid: I have to agree the biggest correctable problem I have observed in our area is the way rainwater is channeled over and through existing roads. Roads are increasingly lowered to channel the water down the roads rather than away from them by crowning and digging ditches and installing culverts. But John has a point. Who wants to pay for it?

mtgoat666 - 9-14-2022 at 08:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck

Who wants to pay for it?

I don’t mind paying taxes for good roads…

charliemanson - 9-14-2022 at 08:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck

Who wants to pay for it?

I don’t mind paying taxes for good roads…

Maybe start by doing the incredibly easy importation of your cars most people leave down here with SD plates!

Funny how many gringos complain about the roads, but are against registering their vehicles which goes toward road repair!

David K - 9-14-2022 at 08:48 AM

Roads = money... It is with roads that people bring products to market and also brings people to the market and to places to spend money at.

It benefits the government to build good roads so this flow of products, money and people is not hindered. The 1973 portion of Highway 1 (San Quintín to San Ignacio) is way way below standards. Other roads as well... A few sections of 10-20 kms. in length have upgraded the 19 ft. wide old highway. But, they are way behind in replacing the rest of it.
Seeing where quality bridges need to replace vados or other washout locations is pretty clear after a storm like this which comes as often as every 4-8 years.

JDCanuck - 9-14-2022 at 09:01 AM

Other than the tires the locals drag behind their tractors and the repairs done by the Baja 1000 after it's run, I see no evidence of any attempt at repairs in our area. Looks like a cattle trail that slowly developed into a track for vehicles to me.
Interestingly, when someone did put out the expense to both widen and crown an existing road and improve the connecting access, someone else threw barricades across it to prevent access further up. Blocking access seems far more common at present than enhancing it.

[Edited on 9-14-2022 by JDCanuck]

AKgringo - 9-14-2022 at 09:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by charliemanson

Maybe start by doing the incredibly easy importation of your cars most people leave down here with SD plates!

None of my vehicles are new enough to qualify for importation.

JDCanuck - 9-14-2022 at 09:26 AM

My problem as well, AKGringo. Looks like it will be a long time before I invest in a newer more expensive vehicle built for modern roads to destroy on existing roads.

charliemanson - 9-14-2022 at 10:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck

Who wants to pay for it?

I don’t mind paying taxes for good roads…

gnukid - 9-14-2022 at 10:31 AM

Baja depends on tourism, farming and growth that requires water to survive, there are few products created here. The water exists but it is wasted though poor infrastructure, planning and management.

As JD points out the primary run off system is roads, and arroyos, which immediately deteriorate, resulting in closures, loss of mobility, injuries and deaths.

In other regions, there exists extremely large underground cisterns to gather run off that is treated, stored and available to mix with other water sources and stored for emergencies.

California became successful because of effective water management to create the Northern California Delta to support farming and Hetch Hetchy system, both of which supported growth and success. Why its all failing now is another story...

mtgoat666 - 9-14-2022 at 11:03 AM

California became successful because of effective water management to create the Northern California Delta to support farming and Hetch Hetchy system, both of which supported growth and success. Why its all failing now is another story...

California has impressive water transfer and storage systems. It’s not “failing.” Climate change is impacting the west, and california water management is changing with the climate and growth…
The days of seemingly unlimited water are over. Landscape your yard with native plants (avoid ugly astroturf and gravel landscaping, what idiots use that stuff?)

Don Pisto - 9-14-2022 at 11:14 AM

and here we are in a rare "triple dip" la nina :no:

gnukid - 9-14-2022 at 11:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

We have done native drought resistant gardens and efficient watering.

In baja I have been gardening forever and use Niem, Moringa, Palms, Palo verde, and a variety of drought resistant desert plants to build an ecosystem to allow other less resistant plants and fruit trees to grow.

I've built canals with sandy drainage to allow the water to enter the soil during storms and support river gardens.

When it is going to rain, I plant a huge number of native wild flower seeds and ground cover starts to encourage growth and bees. It's working!

At the moment we are over run by weeds and ants that come with the rains.

--

Here's an update to ongoing advancements to new dams and local storage announced - though this same article seems to appear yearly...

https://masnoticiasbcs.com/construiran-represo-en-csl-se-ubi...

https://masnoticiasbcs.com/gestionan-proyectos-para-garantiz...

JDCanuck - 9-14-2022 at 01:37 PM

If you want water to penetrate the soil without producing mud and erosion, gravel and sand filtration works great, If you want to encourage filtered runoff without erosion and recapture the water astroturf works great. The challenge is in producing what you want where you want it instead of just allowing all the erosion without any benefit.
If governments would actually apply the taxes they demand to these time proven solutions, I'd be very happy to contribute my share. Unfortunately at present they want the taxes but are very unlikely to apply it where they say it's going. So we do our own where we can with that same money.

John Harper - 9-14-2022 at 04:24 PM

We've also realized how dams have consequences that may cost more than they are worth. Devastation of the native salmon and steelhead populations has cost billions of dollars of sustainable aquaculture and sporting use. Lots of dams are being destroyed as they age out, and the benefits of natural flows are better understood. Look at the Los Angeles River being restored today. The less concrete channeling, the better absorption and replenishment of water tables.

John

Skipjack Joe - 9-14-2022 at 08:47 PM

None of the water from Hetch Hetchy is used for agriculture. It all goes to the residents of San Francisco.

The California Delta at this time only supports farms local to the SF delta.

California's central valley agri business is supported by a series of dams on all the Sierra rivers that flow westward into the Sacramento and San Joaquin Rivers. With the diminishing snowpacks their future does not look bright to me.

gnukid - 9-15-2022 at 07:15 AM

Perhaps there are some lessons to be learned from the Delta system and the Hetch Hetchy system for Baja?

In Baja we have aquifers and spring water, with a few dams while we have massive run off into the ocean and very little storage

John Harper - 9-15-2022 at 07:53 AM

Perhaps there are some lessons to be learned from the Delta system and the Hetch Hetchy system for Baja?

In Baja we have aquifers and spring water, with a few dams while we have massive run off into the ocean and very little storage

True, but where to build these dams? Predicting when and where the most water is going to fall is probably almost impossible. Just look at the various amounts of rainfall distributed by Kay.

Damming every canyon seems a quixotic effort.

John

JDCanuck - 9-15-2022 at 09:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Harper

We've also realized how dams have consequences that may cost more than they are worth. Devastation of the native salmon and steelhead populations has cost billions of dollars of sustainable aquaculture and sporting use. Lots of dams are being destroyed as they age out, and the benefits of natural flows are better understood. Look at the Los Angeles River being restored today. The less concrete channeling, the better absorption and replenishment of water tables.

John

No doubt we have learned a lot about the beneficial effects of seasonal flooding in enhancing salmon runs, and whenever I read about a newly proposed dam, the environmental engineers are taking this into account.
Overall, the benefits of a thoroughly studied new system far outweighs the negatives, providing controlled agricultural irrigation to areas that were previously not farmable due to the unreliable flood/drought conditions., while at the same time allowing release of backed up water when it otherwise would not be available. The bonus is the available renewable clean power they can provide.
I have far more trust in the environmental engineers than I do an uneducated group of protestors that set themselves up as being experts with no educational backing for their claims.

John Harper - 9-15-2022 at 06:02 PM

Yes, and no one realizes now what the Owens Valley was like before the LA aqueduct was built and completed in 1913. The entire valley was lush, with orchards of apple, peach, and other stone fruits. Massive flocks of ducks, geese, and others on Owens Lake. All gone in just a few years.

As we are today, some of our efforts can have devastating consequences, intended or not. I'm sure we've got some "skeletons in the closet" we have yet to discover as humans.

Same as it ever was.

John

JDCanuck - 9-15-2022 at 07:17 PM

I'm a big fan of shared resources between the three countries that make up NAFTA. Our most recent hydro expansion was designed to continue exporting renewable power from our excess. While it was planned for decades, it was a big battle to get it passed against the anti-trade forces that stalled it for so long making it far more expensive in the process. I think Baja too has untapped water resources that have yet to be developed that everyone will benefit by within a cooperative environment.

Hetch Hetchy- a true national tragedy

thebajarunner - 9-16-2022 at 11:50 AM

As John Muir said "Better to flood the Cistine Chapel" and make the ceiling more accessible to view from a rowboat.

Years ago they proposed dams in Grand Canyon, which crazy notion was instantly shouted down

Yet, in the gorgeous valley that rivals the neighboring Yosemite Valley the City of San Francisco was allowed to defile this natural wonder.
To make it worse, no fishing, no boating, no swimming allowed!
All this in one of our favorite national parks. Just so SF can have pure and sweet mountain water.

Every year I take a group of hikers up to spend some hours hiking up to the falls. Before you go with me you must agree to relieve yourself into the lake, at least once, more if you can drink enough liquids.

It is the least that we can do to salute our royalty of San Francisco.

Don Pisto - 9-16-2022 at 12:39 PM

Yvon Chouinard's take on dams, a remarkable man who just gave away his company in the name of climate change...of course he's no nomad.

https://www.patagonia.com/stories/telling-the-dam-truth/stor...

bajaric - 9-16-2022 at 12:51 PM