BajaNomad - The palm tree is going two feet under water

[/rquote]

Why are you all focused on straws? If you avoid drive-ins and takeout, you will eat healthier, and an added benefit is you wont have need for straws :light:

If you are focused on straws, you are misguided. The really appalling consumer waste is single use water bottles. Carry a water bottle, fill it up as needed. Every single use water bottle is a crime against nature.
Also, buying bottles single servings of water is incredibly wasteful $$. Water from the tap is a fraction of a penny per liter. Water from single use plastic bottle is often over a 1000x more expensive than tap water.

Of course you are right Devil Goat and I agree with you 100%. I use maybe use two straws a year, drink water from my Britta pitcher, eat a very healthy, 90% vegetarian diet, and maintain a healthy weight.

I would like to see you invest in a BEV as soon as possible. You're a California resident and therefore qualify for all kinds of rebates and credits.

RFClark - 6-9-2024 at 11:15 AM

OXXO,

The top picture is this year. It has lots of new yellow which is cooler than Orange. The red spot off of mexico is also smaller. I know this doesn’t match the Climate Dogma being peddled currently. So go figure!

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25934500-100-somethin...

The only collected weather data for this area comes from personal weather stations of which there 4. They all agree that the nighttime temperatures run around 59F which is normal. The locals are often farmers. This area has a long history of agriculture as a result of lower temperatures and abundant water (for a desert). Generally sucessful farmers are weather knowledgeable as opposed to the flyover climate types.

Those are this AMs lows, currently it’s 62.7F and overcast with 93% humidity.

[Edited on 6-9-2024 by RFClark]

It’s a nice day in “Hell”
Death Valley is nice too!
As of 11:40 AM PDT 6/9/24

[Edited on 6-9-2024 by RFClark]

[Edited on 6-9-2024 by RFClark]

JDCanuck - 6-9-2024 at 12:03 PM

Its that extremely high humidity that I think needs to be tapped into. If you have AC and collect the water it produces you are likely already aware of what can be extracted from it. Solar capabilities are already well understood, but another natural advantage of the area is the pretty constant winds. I think the whole area from Todos Santos up to Punta Conejo has great renewable resource capability if it can be developed before it becomes overly settled.

[Edited on 6-9-2024 by JDCanuck]

Tioloco - 6-9-2024 at 12:20 PM

CHANGE is the only constant on this planet. It will certainly get warmer in some regions and cooler in others. Electric cars will NOT change that.
That old palm tree on Conception Bay will die one of these days. But it wont be a drowning death.
Travel if you are able.

RFClark - 6-9-2024 at 12:30 PM

JD,

Collecting AC condensate makes sense, recycling gray water makes sense. Some of us do that now. Most places don’t do much to encourage either. What they do demand is that you pay the same or more while using less. They (government) being the primary beneficiary as they can avoid investing in new infrastructure while collecting even more fees and taxes.

As an example, Mexico is finally tying the BC electric grid into mainland Mexico. Until now Northern BC has been tied into the US grid. The plan seems to be to build thermal generating plants on the mainland and feed power into the California grid rather than selling the fuel for export as Mexico is short on LNG export capacity. There is talk of wind power too, so far talk only though.

JDCanuck - 6-9-2024 at 01:24 PM

JD,

Collecting AC condensate makes sense, recycling gray water makes sense. Some of us do that now. Most places don’t do much to encourage either. What they do demand is that you pay the same or more while using less. They (government) being the primary beneficiary as they can avoid investing in new infrastructure while collecting even more fees and taxes.

As an example, Mexico is finally tying the BC electric grid into mainland Mexico. Until now Northern BC has been tied into the US grid. The plan seems to be to build thermal generating plants on the mainland and feed power into the California grid rather than selling the fuel for export as Mexico is short on LNG export capacity. There is talk of wind power too, so far talk only though.

Its pretty surprising how rapidly the area from Todos Santos to Cabo has been developing, so I think wind power is only approachable from Todos Santos North along the coast where the development is far lower at this point. Perhaps large solar farms as well, but the past government seemed to be opposed to both. Maybe the new election will make a difference.

RFClark - 6-10-2024 at 09:58 AM

JD,

Wind power in BCS seems to work best at higher elevations, like the ridge West of La Paz. There is a place south of us that has 2 small wind generators they are located 200’ or so above the beach. They run during the day when the wind comes from the ocean due to inland heating.

We primarily get usable wind during the day. Solar is better here. Major solar needs to be inland from the beach a mile or two to avoid the morning and afternoon low clouds. The clouds are one of the primary reasons our panels are mounted flat.

surabi - 6-10-2024 at 11:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by JZ

Climate Crisis is 100% a political topic.

[Edited on 6-10-2024 by JZ]

It's actually 100% a scientific topic. Just like viral pandemics. That you and your ilk want to turn those things into political topics doesn't mean they are.

RFClark - 6-10-2024 at 01:12 PM

No,

Actually not! You can’t even acknowledge any scientific paper that opposes your personal climate dogma! Other reputable scientists disagree with your views in peer reviewed papers. Basically your response is either crickets or I don’t accept that journal as an approved source for me to read.

The demonstrated adverse effect of the clean air regulations on the increase in the rate of temperature rise as one example! Crickets!

surabi - 6-10-2024 at 02:42 PM

Actually not! You can’t even acknowledge any scientific paper that opposes your personal climate dogma! Other reputable scientists disagree with your views in peer reviewed papers. Basically your response is either crickets or I don’t accept that journal as an approved source for me to read.

The demonstrated adverse effect of the clean air regulations on the increase in the rate of temperature rise as one example! Crickets!

You are entirely incorrect. That I choose to believe what are the overwhelming majority of scientists doesn't mean that has anything whatsover to do with politics.

When someone has a serious medical condition diagnosed, along with a recommended course of treatment, they often go to another doctor, or two, for a second or third opinion. Now imagine one had the financial means to consult 100 doctors. Of those 100, 90% concurred with the first doctor's diagnosis and recommended treatment, which was that the patient needed surgery or they would be dead within 2 years. 10% had a different opinions. Some said the condition could be managed through diet and exercise and surgery wasn't necessary.

A patient who wanted to believe they didn't need surgery, and was suspicious that all those doctors who recommended surgery were just after the money might ignore the 90% of concurring opinions they got, and may or may not be dead within 2 years.

But the vast majority of people wouldn't want to risk dying within 2 years and would choose to believe what 90% of doctors told them and opt for the surgery.

There's nothing "political" about that. It's a matter of common sense and risk assessment.

Nor did I ever put forth the idea that pollution lessening extreme heat from the sun was incorrect. What is nuts is trying to put some good spin on air pollution when obviously breathing polluted air isn't good for anyone, regardless of it helping keep the planet cooler. It's only interesting as a scientific fact, but has no value in terms of climate crisis solutions.

[Edited on 6-10-2024 by surabi]

mtgoat666 - 6-10-2024 at 03:05 PM

Goat in the penalty box cause that was Political!

Not political. Unbiased historical analysis!

RFClark - 6-10-2024 at 03:07 PM

S,

Still having a problem parsing English. I never used the”P” word in connection with you!

The most good for the most people comes to mind here! Lifeboat Rules!

Your cohort is forecasting “millions dead from the heat”!

RFClark - 6-10-2024 at 03:10 PM

Goat,

Absolutely, Just “History”! Like “An unbiased History of the Civil War from the Southern Viewpoint”

oxxo - 6-10-2024 at 04:47 PM

oxxo - 6-10-2024 at 04:49 PM

Not political. Unbiased historical analysis!

RFClark - 6-10-2024 at 04:55 PM

OXXO,

Like away, but she’s wrong. She’s going with appeal to authority debating approach. In the real world every major advance in scientific theory was put out by one or a few and resisted sometimes to the death by the establishment.

Continental drift as an example.

surabi - 6-10-2024 at 05:23 PM

Yes, of course the establishment often takes awhile to accept new ideas or ones that go against the accepted thinking. And often vilifies the alternative thinkers.

That doesn't mean the outliers are always right, though. Often they are wrong.

And alternative theories are often inconsequential as far as actually affecting peoples' lives. Whether someone believes this or that theory or research about continental drift or whether the earth is flat or when in history humans started making tools doesn't have the potential to affect my health or my life or that of generations to come.

So when 90% of the world's scientists and health professionals tell me that it's important to get a Covid vaccine so I don't end up hospitalized or dead, I am going to follow that advice. That doesn't mean I totally dismiss what some other scientists and health professionals have to say to the contrary, it just means I am doing a risk assessment and choosing to err on the side of caution.

In fact, I passed on the Chinese vax that was being offered where I live because A. It was reported to have less than optimal efficacy and B. The viral vector-type vaxes were the ones being reported to be causing blood clots. I knew that those cases were miniscule compared to the numbers of people who had gotten those vaxes, but because I have extremely low blood pressure, so am at risk for thrombosis, I opted to keep myself safe by going out as little as possible, masking up and keeping my distance when I couldn't avoid it, and waiting until I went to Canada a year later and getting the MRNA Pfizer, which didn't carry that blood clot risk.

And it's the same with measures to combat climate change. I would rather do what I can to lessen my carbon footprint in the hopes that what I do contributes in some small part to the solution, than to argue that because China is a major polluter, or that rich people are hypocritical and have a huge carbon footprint, whatever I do doesn't matter and that I should just carry on with whatever harmful to the environment things I want to, because changing my ways would impact my preferred lifestyle.

[Edited on 6-11-2024 by surabi]

[Edited on 6-11-2024 by surabi]

SFandH - 6-10-2024 at 05:23 PM

OXXO,

In the real world every major advance in scientific theory was put out by one or a few and resisted sometimes to the death by the establishment.

What are you talking about? How does this relate to global warming due to the burning of fossil fuels? The scientific establishment is onboard and there are just a few outliers disagreeing.

oxxo - 6-10-2024 at 05:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

What are you talking about? How does this relate to global warming due to the burning of fossil fuels? The scientific establishment is onboard and there are just a few outliers disagreeing.

surabi - 6-10-2024 at 10:03 PM

Yep, JZ, everything you don't agree with is a big conspiracy and 97% of the world's scientists are corrupt. :lol:

Are we worrying about the wrong gas?

AKgringo - 6-11-2024 at 07:02 PM

Nitrous Oxide (N2O) output is increasing more rapidly than CO2 and is a more threatening green house gas. I read this today.

www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/study-finds-human-cause...

RFClark - 6-12-2024 at 11:28 AM

OXXO,

That would be the same majority of experts who said that another ice age was coming back in the ‘60s?

Please note, l’m not saying it’s not getting warmer and human actions aren’t responsible for a part of it. I’m saying that the proposed solutions won’t solve the problem.

oxxo - 6-12-2024 at 11:43 AM

OXXO,

That would be the same majority of experts who said that another ice age was coming back in the ‘60s?

Your premise is taken out of context. I also believe that an Ice Age is coming back, but it may be 1 million years from now (and I'm not an Environmental scientist),,,,after we go through this man made period of global warming. And I should take your word for it that a MAJORITY of experts (does not mean they were environmental scientists) felt that way AND global warming was not perceived in the '60's as the threat it is today. Are you an Environmental Scientist or somebody with an opinion?

Weather Service issues Snow Warning for “Summer” Snow Storm 10”-15” possible

RFClark - 6-17-2024 at 11:14 AM

The cold air intrusion and jet stream energy across the northwestern U.S. will also bring a round of late-season wet snow across the high-elevations of the northern Rockies through the next couple of days where Winter Storm Warning and Winter Weather Advisories are in effect. In addition, this energetic system will also bring quite a bit of wind across the Great Basin and the northern Rockies today, reaching into the central Rockies
and northern Plains by Tuesday morning behind a sharp cold front.

oxxo - 6-17-2024 at 01:32 PM

The cold air intrusion and jet stream energy across the northwestern U.S. will also bring a round of late-season wet snow across the high-elevations of the northern Rockies through the next couple of days where Winter Storm Warning and Winter Weather Advisories are in effect. In addition, this energetic system will also bring quite a bit of wind across the Great Basin and the northern Rockies today, reaching into the central Rockies
and northern Plains by Tuesday morning behind a sharp cold front.

This is the classic example of "climate change" - dramatic variations in climate. Wait for a month after this climatic disturbance passes through and those same areas will be experiencing high heat records. And then there will be mass flooding with homes and lives destroyed and the climate change beat goes on!

And @RFClark, there is an out-of-control grassland fire 60 miles north of Los Angeles right now and Hwy 5 is closed to through traffic. Internal winds are reported at 55 mph and the fire is spreading rapidly into inhabited areas and burning homes by wind borne fire debris.. No Forests up there in that area.

SFandH - 6-17-2024 at 03:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by oxxo

This is the classic example of "climate change" - dramatic variations in climate.

That reminds me of what a NOAA climate scientist said years ago during an interview when she was asked to describe the effects of global warming. I'll paraphrase.

She said temperature is a measure of the energy in the atmosphere, and more energy will produce more extreme weather.

Dry will be drier.
Wet will be wetter.
Floods will be deeper.
Hot will be hotter.
Cold will be colder.
Storms will be stormier.
etc.

I'll add:

More damaging, unhealthy, crop-destroying, migration-causing extreme weather............IMHO.

surabi - 6-17-2024 at 03:43 PM

And as an example of exactly that:

https://www.rawstory.com/once-fruitful-libyan-village-suffer...

Unfortunately, too many people pay no attention to what is happening worldwide due to climate change and can't see nor care further than whether a palm tree in some area where they hang out is going under water.

oxxo - 6-17-2024 at 04:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

And that is the determination of over 99% of climate scientists today.

The Climate has always changed, Man has influenced it for 16,000 Years

RFClark - 6-17-2024 at 05:38 PM

The issue is what is “reported” supports a single view point primarily. The problem is not change or who’s responsible but how to fix it. What you propose won’t work!

The Fire looks like brush not grass to me!

This doesn’t look like it’s been “Lush” in a few thousand years, but post whatever you want!

IMG_5316.jpeg - 123kB

Please note most of the sea level rise occurred more than 2000 years ago.

IMG_5314.jpeg - 66kB

[Edited on 6-18-2024 by RFClark]

[Edited on 6-18-2024 by RFClark]

oxxo - 6-17-2024 at 05:58 PM

The Fire looks like brush not grass to me!

PLEASE @RFClark, grassland fire and brush fire are considered one in the same as opposed to a forest fire.

If you want to argue about semantics, please forgive me, if you want to dot the "i's"and cross all "t's", I should have been more explicit, and said it is a grassland/scrub brush fire. My bad. Regardless, it is in direct contradiction to your assertion that the Malibu fire was a "Forest fire" which is incorrect. It was a grassland/scrub brush fire.

JDCanuck - 6-17-2024 at 06:21 PM

We may want to rethink our premise that Transportation or food production and the CO2 they produce are the major contributor to Man's part in global warming. The most rapid increases in dirty power demand are AI and Crypto mining, not transportation or food. Those energy demands are far outstripping any other sector of our lives. How can we possibly increase renewable power sources at the rate these two demands are growing?
Who are the major benefactors of AI and Crypto? Who are those same people laying the blame on?

[Edited on 6-18-2024 by JDCanuck]

RFClark - 6-17-2024 at 06:21 PM

No, actually they are not. Feel free to read the government report I posted!

surabi - 6-17-2024 at 06:50 PM

This doesn’t look like it’s been “Lush” in a few thousand years, but post whatever you want!

You post some photo, untitled, undated, with no link, that doesn't show a photo of any village. And this is supposed to negate people who live there saying it was lush until this new millenium.

Lush is relative- Libya is one of the driest places on the planet and 90% of it is Saharan plateau. Nowhere in Libya is going to be lush like a tropical rain forest, except maybe some resort enclave where everything gets watered every day.

Your yard in Baja would probably be considered lush by a Libyan villager.

In fact, there is a photo of the village that appeared when I googled "Kabaw, Libya" but there is no way I can figure out to download or copy it. The village looks quite green- an oasis in the desert. Obviously taken before they went into drought mode. And not a few thousand years ago.

[Edited on 6-18-2024 by surabi]

Cliffy - 6-17-2024 at 08:38 PM

We have had massive brush/grassland and forest fires for as long as there has been vegetation on the earth. As long as we have had thunderstorms on the earth.
There is more "green" overall on the earth's surface today than there was 50 years ago due to the higher CO2.
Again I'm not arguing that there is not climate change only that the cause is a natural phenomenon and MAN IS A NATURAL EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS OF THE EARTH. And despite all the hysterics the earth has shown a great propensity to "cleanse itself" of detrimental phenomenon since the dinosaurs.
Another example to look at is how the earth survived the big meteor crash that changed the entire world's climate and killed off the dinosaurs. The earth heals itself despite our efforts to curtail its direction.

Tioloco - 6-17-2024 at 09:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

We have had massive brush/grassland and forest fires for as long as there has been vegetation on the earth. As long as we have had thunderstorms on the earth.
There is more "green" overall on the earth's surface today than there was 50 years ago due to the higher CO2.
Again I'm not arguing that there is not climate change only that the cause is a natural phenomenon and MAN IS A NATURAL EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS OF THE EARTH. And despite all the hysterics the earth has shown a great propensity to "cleanse itself" of detrimental phenomenon since the dinosaurs.
Another example to look at is how the earth survived the big meteor crash that changed the entire world's climate and killed off the dinosaurs. The earth heals itself despite our efforts to curtail its direction.

Cliffy, stop. This is not the arena for any dissent.... no matter how thoughtful.

oxxo - 6-17-2024 at 10:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

And despite all the hysterics the earth has shown a great propensity to "cleanse itself" of detrimental phenomenon since the dinosaurs.

Like for instance humanoids!

surabi - 6-17-2024 at 10:14 PM

Cliffy repeats his elementary school science lesson almost verbatim, like a broken record every time he posts on this thread, as if we all somehow missed grade 5 science class.
That the concern is that climate change is now so rapidly escalating and so extreme that the planet is fast becoming unliveable to all living things, necer seems to penetrate his brain, no matter how many times it is explained to him. He likes to talk about dinosaurs.

Tioloco - 6-17-2024 at 10:25 PM

Cliffy repeats his elementary school science lesson almost verbatim, like a broken record every time he posts on this thread, as if we all somehow missed grade 5 science class.
That the concern is that climate change is now so rapidly escalating and so extreme that the planet is fast becoming unliveable to all living things, necer seems to penetrate his brain, no matter how many times it is explained to him. He likes to talk about dinosaurs.

Planet is NOT becoming unlivable. Please stop the bs

surabi - 6-17-2024 at 11:11 PM

I'm sure your air conditioned home and car are quite comfortable.

Tioloco - 6-18-2024 at 12:00 AM

I'm sure your air conditioned home and car are quite comfortable.

Yes, as a matter of fact they are. And living in the same desert my grandparents grew up in and the same heat they endured without air conditioning makes me feel very fortunate to have it. Summers were hot then and they are hot now. What do you think concrete and asphalt do to ground temperatures? Yes, they make it hotter... as do appliances like air conditioning compressors.

Your electric car wont reverse any of that.

Lets agree that the palm tree looks a lot better being as far as possible from a paved parking lot.

surabi - 6-18-2024 at 12:17 PM

Thanks for proving my point. Anything outside the bubble of your own anecdotal experience is "BS" and you don't care about the rest of the world.

Tioloco - 6-18-2024 at 07:40 PM

Thanks for proving my point. Anything outside the bubble of your own anecdotal experience is "BS" and you don't care about the rest of the world.

Oh, you having no roots and spending a couple of years in different places qualifies you as a local with special knowledge that none of us are privy to. Yeah, ok.... fkia.

surabi - 6-18-2024 at 07:53 PM

The devastating consequences of climate change to people and animal, crops, and the environment that are happening all over the world are readily available to learn about to anyone who is interested. It has nothing to do with special knowledge that someone is privy to or where they are local to.
It's called educating oneself. An alien concept to those who prefer to be told what to believe and to those who don't care about anything that doesn't directly affect them in the moment.

[Edited on 6-19-2024 by surabi]

Tioloco - 6-18-2024 at 08:23 PM

The devastating consequences of climate change to people and animal, crops, and the environment that are happening all over the world are readily available to learn about to anyone who is interested. It has nothing to do with special knowledge that someone is privy to or where they are local to.
It's called educating oneself. An alien concept to those who prefer to be told what to believe and to those who don't care about anything that doesn't directly affect them in the moment.

[Edited on 6-19-2024 by surabi]

This thread is about the palm tree and the evidence shows it is in NO DANGER. Stop the panic.

oxxo - 6-18-2024 at 08:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco

This thread is about the palm tree and the evidence shows it is in NO DANGER. Stop the panic.

I am certain it is NOT the same palm tree(s) in the various photos. And I do have the credentials to make that determination. Somebody is just having fun at the Forum's expense.

Tioloco - 6-18-2024 at 08:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by oxxo

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco

This thread is about the palm tree and the evidence shows it is in NO DANGER. Stop the panic.

I am certain it is NOT the same palm tree(s) in the various photos. And I do have the credentials to make that determination. Somebody is just having fun at the Forum's expense.

Pues wow!

JDCanuck - 7-9-2024 at 04:54 PM

The latest on CO2 removal along with one of the fastest growing producers...you guessed right, Microsoft
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/occidental-clinches-record...

Lets examine this: Energy saving computers spawned Microsoft, which spawned Google, which spawned AI, which has become the biggest fastest growing energy hog. So the fossil fuel producers are being hired to remove the resultant CO2 all that energy demand is creating!

[Edited on 7-10-2024 by JDCanuck]

pauldavidmena - 7-10-2024 at 04:40 AM

My employer has been researching the use of natural processes to reduce carbon dioxide. I'm still not sure what I think of tinkering with what's been in place for millions of years, but no one asked me!

JDCanuck - 7-10-2024 at 08:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena

My employer has been researching the use of natural processes to reduce carbon dioxide. I'm still not sure what I think of tinkering with what's been in place for millions of years, but no one asked me!

Up here in Alberta Canada. we have about 20 at present large CCS projects lined up for regulatory approval in addition to the ones already in place. They are a bit different as they extract the CO2 from processes, ship in pipelines and store in deep underground caverns. This particular one funded by MSFT seems a bit extreme and energy intensive in comparison.

Tioloco - 7-10-2024 at 04:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena

Best of intentions.... and unintended consequences.

JDCanuck - 7-10-2024 at 08:05 PM

Google admits its going backwards on its pledge of Carbon neutrality

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ai-destroyed-google-promis...

mtgoat666 - 7-10-2024 at 09:12 PM

Google admits its going backwards on its pledge of Carbon neutrality

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ai-destroyed-google-promis...

AI is a crock today. Ask a question, you get a response based info on the internet. Info on the internet is often wrong, for example AI might read this thread and thinks scientists measure sea level with vacation snapshots of palm trees. I routinely challenge AI to answer engineering questions. AI usually misses the mark.
Try asking AI to answer zoning and building code questions - AI fails, cant figure out what is applicable, cant interpret how to apply code to real life.
Have you seen those AI chat bots that pop up on every vendors website? Their answers are pathetic.
You want answers to what you need in life, then do your own research, hire a pro, or pick up the phone and talk to a human that knows their chit.

surabi - 7-12-2024 at 12:26 PM

For all you folks making excuses for why it's pointless to reduce your carbon footprint because China and India are the biggest polluters- you are conveniently ignoring a key fact when it comes to personal responsibility. China has a population of over 1.4 billion, India has the same. The US has a population of 333 million.

When it comes to per capita carbon footprint, China and India rank far below other countries. The top polluter per capita is Qatar, followed by several other Middle Eastern countries. Then comes Australia, then the US and Canada.

The Middle Eastern countries top the list due to heavy dependence on fossil fuels, low levels of environmental education, and extravagant lifestyles of the rich, many of whom profit from the fossil fuel industry.

Australia, the US and Canada are high on the list due to the fact that we are the highest consumers of resources per capita to maintain our cushy lifestyles, heavy dependence on fossil fuels and resistance to alternative energy funding.
China and India are heavy overall polluters because of their manufacturing to supply the world market that clamors for cheap goods made with cheap labor, not because the native populations have a high carbon footprint.

European countries have a lower per capita carbon footprint because they have excellent public transport, which people use extensively, they have many alternative energy projects, and people are educated and care about reducing emissions.

So stop with the BS excuses for not curbing your consumption and addiction to fossil fuels "because it won't make a difference". The average Chinese or Indian has a way lower carbon footprint than those in rich countries.

[Edited on 7-12-2024 by surabi]

[Edited on 7-12-2024 by surabi]

SFandH - 7-12-2024 at 01:18 PM

AI is a crock today.

I beg to differ. I think AI is a great development.

https://www.perplexity.ai/ answers your question AND provides links to the source(s) of the information.

I just used it to get information about password management software. In particular, I wanted information about the legacy provisions of the different applications. It did a good job of comparing and contrasting the various options.

JDCanuck - 7-12-2024 at 02:03 PM

Once again we're off topic here, but here goes. The biggest problem I have with AI is it's dumbing down our exceptional human reasoning skills. What we used to call common sense is based on our personal and ancestral experiences (some would call those prejudices). In animals we call it instinct. This keeps us healthy and safe despite what temporary preferred societal demands are placed upon us. It also leads to evolutionary survival of the fittest in a rapidly changing world. Diversity of our sense of whats right in any different situation is what leads to long term survival. All animals have this same capacity built into their makeup and either adapt or are extinguished.
How do we teach that to a machine based on binary true/false reasoning that will eventually be driving acceptable behaviours?

[Edited on 7-12-2024 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 7-12-2024 at 02:33 PM

Surabi: So stop with the BS excuses for not curbing your consumption and addiction to fossil fuels "because it won't make a difference". The average Chinese or Indian has a way lower carbon footprint than those in rich countries.

Those who have visited those Asian countries have also noted they typically cook on solid fuel fires(briquets or wood), which I'm pretty sure is not calculated in their countries' carbon footprint. Dinner time in Cambodia is a killer in producing not just CO2 but particulates as well. It's estimated by a Swedish study there are over 1 million deaths per year caused by that one factor of pollution alone. There are readily available stop gaps to avoid all those unnecessary deaths and pollution, but they require much cleaner alternatives.
While in Mexico, most people cook on CO2 producing gas, I still see a lot of poorer people burning much more polluting waste wood to do their cooking. Perhaps we should start there, then work our way through gas stoves to cleaner electric. La Paz just took a major step ahead by purchasing the recently built combined cycle gas power plant running at 60% or better efficiency to replace their typical diesel fuel generators. It's not solar, hydro or windpower, but its at least 1/3 the CO2 let alone other Sulfur Oxides, NOx and particulates of what they have been installing per unit of energy. Here it is, with pictorial description:

https://constructionreviewonline.com/construction-projects/c...

[Edited on 7-12-2024 by JDCanuck]

JZ - 7-13-2024 at 10:37 AM

Climate radicals attack Tesla Center in Hamburg, Germany.
https://youtube.com/shorts/67_3MSERu6Y?si=z_KrK9_aL6gXaRy_

surabi - 7-13-2024 at 12:23 PM

While I don't approve of these sorts of acts of vandalism and think it is very much the wrong way for climate activists to go about rallying support, just because Musk produces EVs doesn't mean that targeting his business makes no sense.

"Musk's carbon footprint from his 171 private flights in 2022 was 132 times the size of the average US resident's total annual footprint from all activities, the report found. His private plane burned about 221,358 gallons of jet fuel and emitted about 2,112 metric tons of carbon emissions last year, the report found."

Musk's self-promotion as someone who cares about the environment and the future of humanity is just smoke and mirrors. He's just another billionnaire businessman with no conscience.

mtgoat666 - 7-13-2024 at 12:39 PM

While I don't approve of these sorts of acts of vandalism and think it is very much the wrong way for climate activists to go about rallying support, just because Musk produces EVs doesn't mean that targeting his business makes no sense.

"Musk's carbon footprint from his 171 private flights in 2022 was 132 times the size of the average US resident's total annual footprint from all activities, the report found. His private plane burned about 221,358 gallons of jet fuel and emitted about 2,112 metric tons of carbon emissions last year, the report found."

Musk's self-promotion as someone who cares about the environment and the future of humanity is just smoke and mirrors. He's just another billionnaire businessman with no conscience.

If his pushing e cars causes millions of people to reduce their carbon footprint, then perhaps his personal jet carbon footprint is offest by the carbon footprint reduction he caused in others, eh?
I am all for a few people using private jets if their impact in fighting climate change is much greater than their personal impact. Like john kerry, he jets around to spread his message, and fight the good fight, and his overall impact is beneficial. :thumbup:

The complainers cant afford private jet travel, and their message is inconsequential, so the complainers are just peeing in the wind

[Edited on 7-13-2024 by mtgoat666]

surabi - 7-13-2024 at 01:35 PM

Except Musk is nothing like John Kerry and isn't jetting around to spread a message on climate change- he is jetting around to his various businesses, on private vacations, and taking ridiculously short flights (like 9 minutes), when if he actually cared about climate change he would drive one of his EVs on a 10 mile trip, wouldn't he?

And you are suggesting that reductions in carbon footprints be counted twice? A twofer? The Tesla purchaser gets to claim that lowered carbon emission footprint and then that same exact reduction is also credited to the manufacturer?

mtgoat666 - 7-13-2024 at 02:00 PM

Except Musk is nothing like John Kerry and isn't jetting around to spread a message on climate change- he is jetting around to his various businesses, on private vacations, and taking ridiculously short flights (like 9 minutes), when if he actually cared about climate change he would drive one of his EVs on a 10 mile trip, wouldn't he?

And you are suggesting that reductions in carbon footprints be counted twice? A twofer? The Tesla purchaser gets to claim that lowered carbon emission footprint and then that same exact reduction is also credited to the manufacturer?

You people complaining about the very few people that travel by private jet cannot see the forest for the trees.
The average american is a carbon glutton. Convince (or force) the average american to stop driving bloated cars and trucks and you can cut carbon use dramatically. Much of the gluttonous and excessive energy use by americans can be cut by passing creative laws to socially engineer americans into lower energy consumption. :light:

surabi - 7-13-2024 at 02:37 PM

The average american is a carbon glutton. Convince (or force) the average american to stop driving bloated cars and trucks and you can cut carbon use dramatically. Much of the gluttonous and excessive energy use by americans can be cut by passing creative laws to socially engineer americans into lower energy consumption. :light:

I don't disagree with any of that.

But that doesn't negate the fact that "Private jets emit at least 10 times more pollutants than commercial planes per passenger," the report notes. "Unsurprisingly, approximately 1% of people are believed to be responsible for about half of all aviation carbon emissions."

So those "few" people who travel by private jet who you seem to want to absolve of responsibility have a disproportionately huge impact on environmental pollution.

ORphil - 7-14-2024 at 12:11 AM

Tio, was it communism that created rationing of important resources in the US of A during ww2? Or a concerted effort by the government and the public for a common goal?
What about the WPA and the CCC? We wouldn't have cheap hydro power on the west coast otherwise. Or certain famous bridges and such.

Imagine if we asked the average American today to only burn so many gallons of petroleum for the common good. Maybe one doesn't need to drive a lifted diesel at 12 mpg to work sanding fiberglass for 4 tens for giant rvs that no one needs.

C'mon man

Plus a zillion other things they built, campgrounds, trails, parks, power right of ways, highways, fire fighting, libraries, hospitals, schools, on and on.
Sounds good to me.

[Edited on 7-14-2024 by ORphil]

pacificobob - 7-14-2024 at 03:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ORphil

Tio, was it communism that created rationing of important resources in the US of A during ww2? Or a concerted effort by the government and the public for a common goal?
What about the WPA and the CCC? We wouldn't have cheap hydro power on the west coast otherwise. Or certain famous bridges and such.

Imagine if we asked the average American today to only burn so many gallons of petroleum for the common good. Maybe one doesn't need to drive a lifted diesel at 12 mpg to work sanding fiberglass for 4 tens for giant rvs that no one needs.

C'mon man

Plus a zillion other things they built, campgrounds, trails, parks, power right of ways, highways, fire fighting, libraries, hospitals, schools, on and on.
Sounds good to me.

[Edited on 7-14-2024 by ORphil]

Sounds good to me too.

Tioloco - 7-14-2024 at 06:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

Quote: Originally posted by ORphil

Sounds good to me too.

Wait, you two are embracing communism because the USA rationed things during WW2 (The war that was a fight for our lives)

False equivalency.

As for the old palm tree. During the time this thread has been active, has the water level increased yet?

[Edited on 7-14-2024 by Tioloco]

[Edited on 7-14-2024 by Tioloco]

JDCanuck - 7-14-2024 at 07:31 AM

John Kerry and his family's Private Jet charter company had no influence on whether I bought an EV. Elon Musk on the other hand had a huge influence. Elon Musk isn't pushing me to give up meat and milk to reduce my carbon footprint as other influencers are and in the meantime creating more and more demand for energy to drastically expand their profits, he's continuously developing real carbon reducing solutions. I don't see any real comparison here to someone who flies around the world pushing drastic reductions in lifestyles on the common man and someone who is actually developing solutions we can all easily embrace.

[Edited on 7-14-2024 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 7-14-2024 at 07:47 AM

Its pretty easy to get the data on which corporations have in the past 15-20 years actually reduced their carbon footprint and which have drastically increased theirs. It's a pretty eye-opening set of data and goes directly against whats being pushed on us to pay trillions of dollars for as taxpayers without any noticeable improvement.

I see no practical benefit to sending another 2 billion to the three biggest past opponents to EV adoption simply because they are unionized as opposed to the many competing EV startups that are and have been fully committed to EV adoption and then call it support of EV manufacturing in the US, do you?

[Edited on 7-14-2024 by JDCanuck]

surabi - 7-14-2024 at 11:02 AM

John Kerry and his family's Private Jet charter company had no influence on whether I bought an EV. Elon Musk on the other hand had a huge influence. Elon Musk isn't pushing me to give up meat and milk to reduce my carbon footprint as other influencers are and in the meantime creating more and more demand for energy to drastically expand their profits, he's continuously developing real carbon reducing solutions. I don't see any real comparison here to someone who flies around the world pushing drastic reductions in lifestyles on the common man and someone who is actually developing solutions we can all easily embrace.

[Edited on 7-14-2024 by JDCanuck]

Elon Musk isn't developing solutions because he cares about the environment, his motive is enriching himself.
If he cared about solutions, he wouldn't gave fathered 11 children so far.

I am much more inclined to accept the carbon footprint of those who have to fly to events which are designed to promote solutions to climate change in general, although if they don't want to be seen as hypocrites, they should at least be flying commercial, not in private jets.

RFClark - 7-14-2024 at 11:51 AM

S,

You are so much more inclined to support and carry water for those who endorse your beliefs no matter what else they do. For you it’s about US politics even if you claim to be Canadian!

surabi - 7-14-2024 at 12:18 PM

Politics has nothing to do with climate change or my views on how to mitigate it and what we as individuals can do. As I said, Kerry and others who are involved in climate change action should be flying commercial if they profess to care about carbon emissions. So should Musk. But Musk cares so little, he takes a 9 minute private jet flight instead of driving one of his own EVs. I call that out because it's entitled and uncaring, not because of his politics.

Don't gaslight.

[Edited on 7-14-2024 by surabi]

RFClark - 7-14-2024 at 12:31 PM

S,

Absolutely, politics should have nothing to do with Climate policy. That said it has everything to do with it in the US. You never fail to delve into US politics when commenting even though people with the views you dis and who comment here are as “Green” or even Greener than yourself.

I include myself in that group as without having any idea what my politics are you include me in a particular group. That said I’m as Green or Greener than you because as you state “It shouldn't be about politics”!

JDCanuck - 7-14-2024 at 12:37 PM

So true...individuals will always do what they can do. What they get upset about is politicians who claim to be taking their money and using it to reduce their footprint but are in reality taking it to buy votes from their supporters. Let us keep our money and find our own way to reduce our footprint in the most efficient manner we know of.

In my case it was solar panels and eventually an EV. But I guarantee John Kerry or any present or prior President or Prime Minister had zero contribution on how i managed it. Rather they did their best to have me contribute my funds for their own discretion.

surabi - 7-14-2024 at 01:19 PM

You never fail to delve into US politics when commenting even though people with the views you dis and who comment here are as “Green” or even Greener than you.

That first part is patently untrue.
And while I know that you are quite "Green" in the way you live, the people whose views I dis are those who insist that nothing we as individuals do can have any positive impact, and who champion and defend their eschewing of trying to live more sustainably, and actually brag about having no intention to ever change anything about their lifestyles to lessen their footprint.

Why you would want to align yourself with those people, when you are actually living more sustainably, is baffling. Maybe it's political???

RFClark - 7-14-2024 at 02:32 PM

S,

Posting “climate” information from a political opinion article is, well, Political!

Why align? Because what you indorse won’t solve the or even address the problem we face! It isn’t even Science it’s simple math.

Then there is the poor quality of the data used for the predictions of the Apocalypse!

Greetings from the “empty quarter” today’s forecast 103 currently 78 and raining like hell!

IMG_3758.jpeg - 98kB

surabi - 7-14-2024 at 05:11 PM

S,

Posting “climate” information from a political opinion article is, well, Political!

Why align? Because what you indorse won’t solve the or even address the problem we face! It isn’t even Science it’s simple math.

Example please of me posting climate information from a political opinion article.
And "information" is a matter of fact. Just because a site leans right or left does not mean the information that is posted there isn't fact. Opinions on what to do about it are just that- -opinions.

And where did I ever say that what you think I "endorse" is going to "solve" the climate change problems? Or do you think everyone should just do nothing on an individual basis to lessen their carbin footprint just because it won't "solve" the problem on a global scale? Do you think Cliffy's constant refrain of "The climate has always been changing" adds anything of value to a discussion on man-made climate change and possible solutions?

JDCanuck - 7-14-2024 at 05:24 PM

I think Cliffy's statement may actually be one of the most helpful. If everything we do and throw public funds at can't change the facts of climate changing, maybe we should spend more time and energy coming up with adaptive solutions rather than just trying to reverse it.

Designing passive cooling as was common in the past in housing might be a good start, rather than remaining dependent on heat producing AC units whether they are run by fossil fuel generated power or renewable power.

Tioloco - 7-14-2024 at 05:40 PM

I think Cliffy's statement may actually be one of the most helpful. If everything we do and throw public funds at can't change the facts of climate changing, maybe we should spend more time and energy coming up with adaptive solutions rather than just trying to reverse it.

Designing passive cooling as was common in the past in housing might be a good start, rather than remaining dependent on heat producing AC units whether they are run by fossil fuel generated power or renewable power.

You are spot on JD. There are a lot of things that are manmade and "green" that are heat producing. Just the way it is.

JDCanuck - 7-14-2024 at 06:27 PM

I wouldn't call AC units green, but they are increasingly necessary to save unnecessary deaths as we learned up here just 2 years ago.

For some, the best solution might be double pane windows, for some more insulation, or opening windows at one side of their great room at the top and others at the shaded side at the lower side. For that farmer in Pakistan that just managed to scrape together the cash to buy his first tractor, do we really want to force him to pay 50% more for his fuel to support his family? I'm just saying the best solution for me may not be the best solution for someone in Lapland, Pakistan or Mexico.

[Edited on 7-15-2024 by JDCanuck]

Tioloco - 7-14-2024 at 08:35 PM

I wouldn't call AC units green, but they are increasingly necessary to save unnecessary deaths as we learned up here just 2 years ago.

For some, the best solution might be double pane windows, for some more insulation, or opening windows at one side of their great room at the top and others at the shaded side at the lower side. For that farmer in Pakistan that just managed to scrape together the cash to buy his first tractor, do we really want to force him to pay 50% more for his fuel to support his family? I'm just saying the best solution for me may not be the best solution for someone in Lapland, Pakistan or Mexico.

[Edited on 7-15-2024 by JDCanuck]

Good points. Another consideration is a lot of people are just not as healthy or tough as they were in previous generations. AC units are a relatively new invention for comfort. Yet another societal problem, eh?

RFClark - 7-14-2024 at 09:02 PM

JD,

Upon thinking about it solar powered AC can’t add heat to the environment the way that AC run off other sources can. In fact I feel a case can be made that because 80% or more of the sun’s energy is reflected or reradiated off the solar panels they actually may reduce the amount of heat stored in the ground beneath them.

The AC unit uses the collected solar energy to move heat around rather than generating new heat. The combination isn’t making things hotter in the way that AC powered by thermal generating stations can.

ORphil - 7-15-2024 at 01:50 AM

No, no Tio. Don't dodge the main question I had. What about the CCC and the WPA building infrastructure for the common good of the people that we still enjoy today? Communism? Left to the utilities, we wouldn't have fiber optic in many rural areas that we do now due to fed dollars. Not much different from bringing electricity to the nation during the new deal.

If it makes sense to fund and alternative energy sources and programs to make the US more independent and enviromentally friendly no matter what your "beliefs" are wouldn't that be a positive endeavour? Who is the loser? Oil.

I'm a c'monist. C'mon man.

Tioloco - 7-15-2024 at 04:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ORphil

No, no Tio. Don't dodge the main question I had. What about the CCC and the WPA building infrastructure for the common good of the people that we still enjoy today? Communism? Left to the utilities, we wouldn't have fiber optic in many rural areas that we do now due to fed dollars. Not much different from bringing electricity to the nation during the new deal.

If it makes sense to fund and alternative energy sources and programs to make the US more independent and enviromentally friendly no matter what your "beliefs" are wouldn't that be a positive endeavour? Who is the loser? Oil.

I'm a c'monist. C'mon man.

Not dodging anything comrade. Your favorite energy "alternatives" dont work and arent needed. We currently have over 100 years of fossil fuels alone.

This is about income redistribution and political control. In time, there will certainly be advancements in energy production that actually work. This just aint it.

[Edited on 7-15-2024 by Tioloco]

JDCanuck - 7-16-2024 at 07:42 PM