The palm tree is going two feet under water

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Is your point that prior to adding the solar panel farms Gila Bend was a “Garden Spot” in August? I’ve driven through there since the early ‘70s it’s never been a “garden spot” in the summer!

Not “Green” just saving $$$!

For us based on the costs solar is way cheaper than CFE. Especially since we charge our PHEV off of solar!

The reason that there’s nothing under the panel farms around Gila Bend is not much grows there. Where there’s water agriculture and Solar coexist.

https://www.agritecture.com/blog/2022/2/3/largest-farm-to-gr...

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

Phoenix? Heat Island now for 50 years In the 1800s it cooled off every night in the summer (for the most part) before asphalt and concrete Solar fields are "environmentally" friendly? Do we realize that UNDER every solar field EVERY living thing is cut clean off the ground (every plant and animal removed from the earth under the panels) before the first panel is brought in. Do we realize that it has to stay that way for the life of the solar field? How many millions of acres are needed for solar field expansion to supply the proposed power demands? Are we willing to kill the earth under these millions of acres of land in exchange for being "Green"? Seems to be a strange juxtaposition to be in. And we are not even into the total life cycle cost of the panels themselves and being as how there is no recycling of the panels they all go into the ground when they die. Much the same BTW to the propeller blades on wind farms- more land fill candidates now and in the future. YA I guess that's what "going Green" is! [Edited on 10-2-2024 by Cliffy]

Feel free to explain how the building on the left heats up the earth more than the two on the right!

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

Phoenix? Heat Island now for 50 years In the 1800s it cooled off every night in the summer (for the most part) before asphalt and concrete Solar fields are "environmentally" friendly? Do we realize that UNDER every solar field EVERY living thing is cut clean off the ground (every plant and animal removed from the earth under the panels) before the first panel is brought in. Do we realize that it has to stay that way for the life of the solar field? How many millions of acres are needed for solar field expansion to supply the proposed power demands? Are we willing to kill the earth under these millions of acres of land in exchange for being "Green"? Seems to be a strange juxtaposition to be in. And we are not even into the total life cycle cost of the panels themselves and being as how there is no recycling of the panels they all go into the ground when they die. Much the same BTW to the propeller blades on wind farms- more land fill candidates now and in the future. YA I guess that's what "going Green" is! [Edited on 10-2-2024 by Cliffy]

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

For us based on the costs solar is way cheaper than CFE. Especially since we charge our PHEV off of solar! The reason that there’s nothing under the panel farms around Gila Bend is not much grows there. Where there’s water agriculture and Solar coexist. https://www.agritecture.com/blog/2022/2/3/largest-farm-to-gr...

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

How come no one on the "Green" side ever promotes nuclear power as an alternative to dino juice? Its clean generating power and its waste foot print after being used up is minuscule compared to the total power produced. Safety? How many reactors do we have of modern design in the Navy and space that have NEVER had any incidents let alone melt downs when operated by qualified crews? Adm. Rickover set the standard and it has served well for 60+ years in the US Navy Seems we have had the perfect blueprint for clean power all the time except for hysteria. Again- the sky is falling and the world is doomed.

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

For us based on the costs solar is way cheaper than CFE. Especially since we charge our PHEV off of solar! The reason that there’s nothing under the panel farms around Gila Bend is not much grows there. Where there’s water agriculture and Solar coexist. https://www.agritecture.com/blog/2022/2/3/largest-farm-to-gr...

I just bought the components for a solar powered refrigerator to keep the beer cold at our place in BCS. It will be a considerable reduction in my personal carbon footprint.

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

I just bought the components for a solar powered refrigerator to keep the beer cold at our place in BCS. It will be a considerable reduction in my personal carbon footprint.

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco

Please familiarize yourself with the equipment necessary for tilling, grading, irrigating, controlling pests and harvesting any agricultural lands on a commercial scale. This picture of solar panels above ag fields is not a serious proposal for all of the above reasons. Not much more than a feel good photo.

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Tioloco, The picture is from the article linked below it. You might want to read that! FYI the wife and I owned a small cattle ranch long ago. We had several tractors and other “farm equipment”!

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco

Additionally, for crop production and the rapid turn around from one crop to the next, shading any area from the sunlight with solar panels would be extremely counterproductive and cut back on production significantly.

As is obvious from the photo, there is only a small strip of ground that is in shade. Which will move with the sun all day.

And anyone who has grown vegetables before knows that many crops prefer partial shade.
There are many large agricultural operations where you will see shade cloth strung over certain crops because they hate baking in the hot sun all day.

Quote: Originally posted by surabi

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco   Additionally, for crop production and the rapid turn around from one crop to the next, shading any area from the sunlight with solar panels would be extremely counterproductive and cut back on production significantly. As is obvious from the photo, there is only a small strip of ground that is in shade. Which will move with the sun all day. And anyone who has grown vegetables before knows that many crops prefer partial shade. There are many large agricultural operations where you will see shade cloth strung over certain crops because they hate baking in the hot sun all day.

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

Solar fields are "environmentally" friendly? Do we realize that UNDER every solar field EVERY living thing is cut clean off the ground (every plant and animal removed from the earth under the panels) before the first panel is brought in.

Quote: Originally posted by cupcake

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy   Solar fields are "environmentally" friendly? Do we realize that UNDER every solar field EVERY living thing is cut clean off the ground (every plant and animal removed from the earth under the panels) before the first panel is brought in. Solar project to destroy thousands of Joshua trees in the Mojave Desert https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-05-31/solar-p...

Quote: Originally posted by SFandH

Quote: Originally posted by cupcake   Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy   Solar fields are "environmentally" friendly? Do we realize that UNDER every solar field EVERY living thing is cut clean off the ground (every plant and animal removed from the earth under the panels) before the first panel is brought in. Solar project to destroy thousands of Joshua trees in the Mojave Desert https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-05-31/solar-p... That's unfortunate. From the article: "The person with knowledge of the project said the company’s plan now included destroying 3,500 Joshua trees." I wonder how many Joshua trees are in the area. Is 3,500 1%, 10%, 50%, what? That's the way to look at it. [Edited on 10-3-2024 by SFandH]

Do we really need to protect the joshua tree? I mean, it is pretty ugly. Doesn't provide much shade. What use is it?

Quote: Originally posted by cupcake

I don't know the answer to that question. This one site is 2,300 acres. This will be the ninth site this company has built in Kern County. "When asked why the company decided to put the project on land next to the two towns, Sundquist said that executives wanted to keep the solar field in Kern County rather than farther south in San Bernardino. “We like doing business here,” he said. In 2019, San Bernardino County Supervisors voted to ban the construction of large solar and wind farms on more than 1 million acres of private land."

Quote: Originally posted by RFClark

Tioloco, Living off the grid is “camping” and you can’t use mechanized farm equipment under solar panels is right up there with Gila Bend (and Phoenix) was a nice place before the “round eyes” moved there and screwed up the weather! Phoenix was a hell hole during the Korean war. I was there. People grew their lawns under water it was so hot! Is your “experience” in agriculture growing what you smoke?

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

"Cliffy falsely stated that they "kill the earth" under them, which they do not." Pray tell just what happens when a new solar field is developed and they go in and denude the entire project area of ALL vegetation and living beings? No one yet has answered the questions of cradle to grave costs on wind and solar. No one yet has answered the question of how we get rid of dino juice power plants and still power the grid when the sun don't shine or the wind don't blow or we have fluctuating power grid demands. How about hydro power? Why not build more dams and generate clean power? OH I forgot -THAT is an environmental disaster under the water but scraping the ground clean under solar panels is not> HMMMM Without dino juice power the grid fails Period! And dont go to the "we'll have better batteries to handle it" route. That ain't going to happen on an national scale in anyone's life time (not to mention the environmental disaster just making the batteries would involve). Putting up a few panels on your roof to power what is in reality a campsite doesn't come close in scale to powering the entire grid with "renewables". No problem for you to do for your microcosm but at scale for the entire grid it ain't gonna work anytime soon. To preach that the sky is falling unless we go green is just fear mongering. Without government subsidy the price of wind and solar energy would go way up and be non-competitive to dino juice power, Without the subsidies you wouldn't even have a solar or wind industry. You say dino juice has subsidies also? OK I'm all for dropping ALL government subsidies across the board and letting the market determine the winners and not a government mandated program. You say I'm against EVs- NOT SO by any means. Just the mandating of the technology and not the vehicle itself. Just remember the horsepower has to come from somewhere Also, let EVs compete without government subsidies. Hybrid cars may be the best solution and not straight EVs. As many do they just sit a pontificate about this all the while not addressing the problems ahead if it goes that way Attached below is a link showing just what happens when emotion gets in the way of sound engineering- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BD_wkP91P0&list=TLPQMDM... [Edited on 10-3-2024 by Cliffy]

Quote: Originally posted by Salsa

Mu take on all of this is Concrete Jungles Cause the Earth to Heat UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don

An interesting developement in my local climate this year