BajaNomad - Megadrought Predictions

..... If government were removed from the mix, energy would be cheaper.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by David K]

David,

Your comments are so anti-government most of the time, I am wondering if you think we would all be better off with no "government" at all.

What amount and kind of benefits do you enjoy as a result of any form of "government" taxation and subsequent benefits provided?

Just curious, as you seem to drop your government-hater innuendos quite frequently. :?:

No Ged, I am not an anarchist, I am a firm believer in the Constitution and that it is the rule book for all national government activities. Government is needed at all levels in a society, but within its specified boundaries. Citizens do not need or should have a nanny government. Time to grow up and be responsible!

What history has shown: A government that governs least, governs best.
Places with the most government fail, are corrupt, or are prisons: Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea are examples of what more government is like.

How do you think you can get away with this gibberish David? You can't just wave your magic right wing wand and say "history" proves something... You cite extreme examples as if everything else just falls into place. Poll after poll shows people (referring to the world that is...not just San Diego) that are happiest have LOTS of government involvement. Of course, if we bring up these countries you'll just say they are clueless socialist airheads who really don't know what freedom is all about.

Obviously this country of ours is broken because of a socialist Commander in Chief. Since you are a history buff, what era of the United States would you like to cite as an example of your "government free" zone?

Mexitron - 3-10-2015 at 07:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

..... If government were removed from the mix, energy would be cheaper.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by David K]

Honduras is currently going through a "less" government (libertarian) experiment, perhaps you should look into this David:

http://www.economist.com/node/21541391

An opinion of a traveler there:

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/02/my_libertarian_vacation_nigh...

LOL---------well, no bias or prejudice in THOSE articles in SALON / THE ECONOMIST. (righttttt) Most of the stuff the "traveler" b-tched about I can't really relate to-------never saw things that way in my travels, but whatever. Personally, I like Hong Kong. His description of the residences & businesses reminded me of Mexicali back in the '70's and '80's------don't know what it is like now, but I do know that it did not bother me then.

Different strokes for different folks.

Barry

I was always under the impression that The Economist was a neutral or slightly right leaning publication. And I did label the Salon article as an opinion. Anyway, you and and especially David are seemingly always on the ant-government bandwagon so I thought it would be of interest. Hell, if it works I'd be all for it. Just haven't heard a whole lot of rave reviews about libertarian experiments. Heh, Somalia, just to take it to an extreme, Rhetoric 101 you know, is a perfect example of capitalism unfettered...no government interference at all. LOL.

mtgoat666 - 3-10-2015 at 09:39 AM

It seems that climate change deniers are motivated by their economic and political views to deny inconvenient facts. seems to remind me of holocaust deniers,...
these people need to accept the facts and move on to the next topic: what to do in the face of such facts

Barry A. - 3-10-2015 at 10:11 AM

I am not "anti-Govt."-------------I just want Govt. to remain small, and for the most part work within the boundaries set by the USA Constitution.

Simple as that.

I believe that most of the social welfare programs, and endless regulations the Fed. and State Governments promulgate, and spends so many tax dollars on, does more harm than good generally speaking.

This is the over-riding theme of ALL my political comments.

I also realize that roughly half the people out there don't agree with me, and those folks do provide a valuable contribution to man-kind on balance. But often their efforts seek to impose restrictions on me that are highly annoying, I think are counter-productive, and are generally detrimental to human progress.

The so-called "nanny state" model just is largely a huge mistake, IMO.

I will let it go at that.

Barry

wessongroup - 3-10-2015 at 05:24 PM

Environment = Nature and/or Mother Nature

This video makes the point, quite well ... and also puts in perspective, our part in "Nature"

It is evolution, after all, are you ready for "IT" ... :biggrin:

http://www.takepart.com/video/2014/10/06/nature-speaking-mot...

"Don't ever think it can't happen to you"

[Edited on 3-11-2015 by wessongroup]

monoloco - 3-10-2015 at 05:29 PM

It isn't just the "half that don't pay taxes" who loves some free "stuff". How about those banks who get to borrow money at ZERO interest to invest in the stock market or buy T Bills, and collect interest from the government? How about the farmers, (who are mostly mega-corporations) who get government subsidies to grow corn to turn into fuel? How about the ranchers who pay a ridiculously low grazing fee that doesn't come close to paying for the damage that their cows do to public land? It seems that just about everyone "loves free stuff".

LancairDriver - 3-10-2015 at 05:45 PM

The half that don't pay taxes love all the 'free' stuff... they think money is created by the government, and that they just print it, so it can be given away. Money is created by business... by people running business, providing a product or service that is needed or desired. As a business becomes successful (because of its popularity or need), it becomes a corporation for protection of the owners or stockholders.

Why they hate corporations (business) is beyond me, as corporations create products we chose to buy and hire us to make them... and they pay taxes, as well as all the employees paying taxes.

The biggest laugh I get from liberals is when they say to raise taxes on the corporations, that the corporations don't pay enough! LOL

Anybody with any education cannot deny that the consumer pays the taxes, and that if you raise taxes on business, that cost is passed down with higher prices. If a business doesn't pass it along, then the odds increase the business will fail with the drop in income needed to make products, and more so to pay employees. Over-taxing business hurts workers... hurts business owners... and hurts consumers who want what that business offered.

Excellent Economics 101 lesson DK, thanks.

norte - 3-10-2015 at 06:15 PM

I am not "anti-Govt."-------------I just want Govt. to remain small, and for the most part work within the boundaries set by the USA Constitution.

Simple as that.

I believe that most of the social welfare programs, and endless regulations the Fed. and State Governments promulgate, and spends so many tax dollars on, does more harm than good generally speaking.

This is the over-riding theme of ALL my political comments.

I also realize that roughly half the people out there don't agree with me, and those folks do provide a valuable contribution to man-kind on balance. But often their efforts seek to impose restrictions on me that are highly annoying, I think are counter-productive, and are generally detrimental to human progress.

The so-called "nanny state" model just is largely a huge mistake, IMO.

I will let it go at that.

Barry

OK Barry enlighten me. Just what government services are allowed and which are not under the constitution (so the government can stay small).

vgabndo - 3-10-2015 at 06:20 PM

To quote David:

"The biggest laugh I get from liberals is when they say to raise taxes on the corporations, that the corporations don't pay enough! LOL"

You just keep laughing David, and in between your howls of mirth, take a moment to explain to this liberal why I shouldn't say that US corporations should pay their share of taxes.

In a study conducted with tax returns from 2008 until 2012, Citizens for Tax Justice, with a 30 year history of studying the US tax system, reviewed 288 of the Fortune 500 companies which made a consistent profit and found that although the corporate tax rate in the US is 35% these companies actually paid only 19.4% taxes on their billions and billions in income. A third of those 288 corporations paid less than 10% tax on their income. Just under 10% of the biggest corporations PAID NO TAXES TO THE U. S. AT ALL.

If you subtract what the 288 corporations actually paid from what the number would have been if they had paid their 35%, their total government hand-out in corporate welfare over 5 years adds up to 364 BILLION dollars.

Boeing, General Electric, Priceline.com, and Verizon had pre-tax profits of 170 billion dollars, but paid no taxes.

The last time in recent US history that we had a solid economy and a thriving middle class, the corporations were paying their legal share.

Explain to me please why I shouldn't say that corporate America doesn't pay enough.

[Edited on 3-11-2015 by vgabndo]

mtgoat666 - 3-10-2015 at 07:35 PM

Excellent Economics 101 lesson DK, thanks.

See the news today? Florida governor Scott banned the use of terms like "climate change." You GOP deniers are nuts! And dangerous fascist anti-1st-amendment, anti-science zealots!

Now, y'all get back to your anti tax fun time! :lol:

wessongroup - 3-10-2015 at 07:53 PM

How many will be writing checks to the IRS ... this year

Things are changing in that area ... for the individual taxpayer

Big Time

someone has to pay ... :biggrin:

[Edited on 3-11-2015 by wessongroup]

motoged - 3-10-2015 at 07:59 PM

Perry,
Don't expect the facts to influence the opinions of some folks here.

DK, for instance, has refused to respond to my question regarding which benefits he enjoys as a taxpayer, and which ones he is willing to give up with his utopian vision of government.... :?:

As for this archaic over-used statement about "the constitution" seems to be a fall-back point at times.....I have wondered if a policy that was developed by a bunch of masonic business men a few hundred years ago might be due for some upgrades...

as even mother nature adapts over time to attempt to find a balance.

Cliffy - 3-10-2015 at 09:31 PM

Seems as how we have changed the Constitution 27 times already!
There is a way to do it.
Things I don't need from the government?
I sure don't need Obamacare
There is nothing in the Constitution that says the Feds are allowed into the health care field but that's another debate.
A better question might be- Where is there any "right" to health care for anyone?

wessongroup - 3-10-2015 at 10:23 PM

Perry,
Don't expect the facts to influence the opinions of some folks here.

DK, for instance, has refused to respond to my question regarding which benefits he enjoys as a taxpayer, and which ones he is willing to give up with his utopian vision of government.... :?:

Good one

It gets real hard ... real fast, trying to get that "balance"

redhilltown - 3-10-2015 at 11:17 PM

DK also did not answer what era of the United States best represents his glory years of capitalism. Please...someone...anyone, give me those years.

As to the (original) constitution not mentioning health insurance, it also didn't address the question of whether or not women and blacks are human beings that are so endowed with freedom by their creator such as rich, powerful, slave owning white men.

All of which is a red herring. It is an amazing document and far ahead of its time...but to just blindly ride your right wing horse and say over and over CONSTITUTION CONSTITUTION is a sham.

It also never mentions god yet over and over and over again, it is used as a textbook for what "He" wants for us...

motoged - 3-11-2015 at 12:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy

Seems as how we have changed the Constitution 27 times already!
There is a way to do it.
Things I don't need from the government?
I sure don't need Obamacare
There is nothing in the Constitution that says the Feds are allowed into the health care field but that's another debate.
A better question might be- Where is there any "right" to health care for anyone?

Cliffy,
- 27 times is a good start;
- Maybe you don't need "Obamacare", but others might....;
- The guys that crafted the constitution probably never thought about that a few hundred years ago....folks back then got sick and died if bleeding and praying didn't work;

Where is there any right to health care? Here are some articles you may get some answers from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Health_Insurance_Card

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/a-constitutional-right-to-health-247449

http://www.globalissues.org/article/774/health-care-around-the-world

Or, you could just tell them it's their tough luck:

Osprey - 3-11-2015 at 07:59 AM

I have a question. If a person moves to California do they automatically become members of The Haters Club? I think if I did move there (I can't, restraining order) it would take some time for me to get used to hating Republicans, Conservatives, Capitalists and anyone who wasn't born and raised in California. Or anyone (especially) like DK whose one and only curse is that he is not afraid to be open and honest about his feelings about a whole lot of subjects. Boy, if the 7,900 forum members who live in California, were born in California ever knew what I was thinking, I suppose I'd have to move to Tierra Del Fuego, go as far south as possible to get off their radars.

bezzell - 3-11-2015 at 08:06 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Osprey

DK whose one and only curse is that he is not afraid to be open and honest about his feelings about a whole lot of subjects.

Feelings for the win ! :lol:

screw science !!

When DK talks this is how I listen

blackwolfmt - 3-11-2015 at 08:16 AM

th.jpeg - 9kB

Barry A. - 3-11-2015 at 08:30 AM

It is my understanding that the US Constitution as written and amended is considered to be the Model for the rest of the world Democracies, and many Countries have used it as a basis for writing their own version.

For me, my Family, and all my friends, the "best years" for us living under Capitalism in the USA have been the one's we have lived on a daily basis, up to lately. Things are looking pretty grim lately, at least for the Country, not for us personally.

It looks to me that the way the Progressives want to pay for all the "programs" they now have, and want to have, is mainly by taxing what they see as "the rich", the Corporations, and small business-------which is the very essence of Capitalism----in other words eroding away at the very Golden-Goose that made our standard of living and opportunity-for-all the envy of the World. There has got to be compromise on this well intentioned Progressive effort, and certainly a better way less we ruin the very system that has made ALL OF US (even the habitually poor) better off than before, and the beacon for millions to emulate or immigrate too.

Barry

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2015 at 08:31 AM

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2015 at 08:32 AM

AKgringo - 3-11-2015 at 08:40 AM

What was the topic of this thread? Oh yeah, Megadrought predictions!
For a moment I thought I had logged in to the 'Off topic' forum.

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2015 at 08:41 AM

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2015 at 08:51 AM

LancairDriver - 3-11-2015 at 09:00 AM

Since this thread has already drifted away from the original topic, here's some more trivia from the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/11-7-million-americans-...

The Obama administration said Tuesday that 11.7 million Americans now have private health insurance through federal and state marketplaces, with 86 percent of them receiving financial assistance from the federal government to help pay premiums.

Socialized medicine is finally here!
Student loan forgiveness is next!
Do we have enough producers to support this wonderful utopia?

SFandH - 3-11-2015 at 09:02 AM

Thanks goat for attempting to get back on topic with the humorous cartoons. Although judging from the above post, it may not work. Political opinions are tiresome. Same old stuff over and over again.

[Edited on 3-11-2015 by SFandH]

vgabndo - 3-11-2015 at 09:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Osprey

I have a question. If a person moves to California do they automatically become members of The Haters Club? I think if I did move there (I can't, restraining order) it would take some time for me to get used to hating Republicans, Conservatives, Capitalists and anyone who wasn't born and raised in California. Or anyone (especially) like DK whose one and only curse is that he is not afraid to be open and honest about his feelings about a whole lot of subjects. Boy, if the 7,900 forum members who live in California, were born in California ever knew what I was thinking, I suppose I'd have to move to Tierra Del Fuego, go as far south as possible to get off their radars.

So I'm guessing that civil law having to ban you from California has nothing at all to do with your politics and everything to do with your behavior. Correct? How you have managed to turn a rational assessment of Republicans, Conservatives and Capitalists into a HATERS CLUB reminds me of the way the FOX talking heads have turned our efforts to keep the churches from using tax supported institutions to promote their religion into a "war on Christmas". Most of us find it easy to be proud of California. Ranked by GDP our free market system is about the same size as the entire country of Italy, our GDP is bigger than Russia or India. Californians pay WAY more money in federal taxes than we get back in federal benefits, it is exactly the opposite in the majority of "conservative voting" states. Far more of our population speaks more than one language than most any other state. We have several major seaports, many large highly ranked universities, and our agricultural production is greater than that of many red states combined. And, if you want to rub elbows with people who don't understand the Constitution, come to central northern California. The people there elected Wally Herger 26 years in a row, and that mental midget tried for years to get the Bible made the law of the land. (See: The Constitution Restoration Act.) This Californian doesn't hate conservatives, I am just stunned by their habit of voting against their own self interests, and their huge loathing for anyone who doesn't share their "feelings."

sancho - 3-11-2015 at 09:34 AM

Osprey, Calif Republican Haters? Not sure that is the correct
assessment,
we give them a little run once in a while,
then what do they do, elect some scholar like Schwarzenegger,
seems to me the guy in No San Diego would feel much
happier surrounded by like thinking folks in some place such
as the Carolinas, Ark., Oklahoma

Osprey - 3-11-2015 at 09:37 AM

I don't think anything stuns Californians. The welfare condition is a serum that is shot into their veins like vaccines or vitamins at birth. The restraining order was a joke son, I joke a lot with people I meet who are leaving California (on their way to Texas) like it was on fire.
They are disillusioned. Too much of all that goodness in utopia can be overwhelming.

motoged - 3-11-2015 at 10:02 AM

Osprey,
"Haters Club"? I guess there is more than one here....not just those a bit "left" here.....

It is such a childish term....and I know you are smarter than that.

On another note, it occurred to me that directing resentment to the poor is a great way to keep folks from focusing on the military budget and how it is draining the coffers.

Barry A. - 3-11-2015 at 10:12 AM

Osprey,
"Haters Club"? I guess there is more than one here....not just those a bit "left" here.....

It is such a childish term....and I know you are smarter than that.

On another note, it occurred to me that directing resentment to the poor is a great way to keep folks from focusing on the military budget and how it is draining the coffers.

"-------directing resentment to the poor-----"??? What's THAT statement all about?? I don't "resent" the poor, but I do resent enabling and thereby encouraging people to stay poor!!!

The Military budget when maintained at adequate levels is what allows the US Govt. to do their Constitutional duty of protecting the Nation and it's people from their enemies.

Barry

Sweetwater - 3-11-2015 at 10:21 AM

In fact Ged, this is the MO of the DK style of debate. Don't directly address the subject with any intelligent responses. Go off on a diatribe of the same old list of grievances that has always worked to distract from the topic at hand and will trigger your supporters who have the same list of grievances.

You'll see me respond very rarely, if you look back through this thread, I posted the USGS map of the past 108 years of depletion of our ground water reservoirs. The fact that our primary Mediterranean growing region of California has huge depletion of it's water should be a serious concern. But as always, facts get in the way of the debate. I'm still living by the rule: Never argue with an idiot, an independent observer might not be able to tell the difference after several exchanges.

Simply put, everyone who drives on a public road, goes camping or fishing or any other recreation in the USA is taking advantage of our government and it's resources. The primary cause of bankruptcy for individuals in the USA for the past several decades has been Health Care expenses. Any attempt to effectively deal with that fact has been routinely obstructed until the past 6 years. The solution needs a lot of additional work but has been met with total obstructionism. Beyond those facts, I'll stop since I'm sure there will be responses not based on any reality or facts.....but maybe it's just me..... :tumble:

vgabndo - 3-11-2015 at 10:56 AM

It isn't just you Sweetwater, I too am out of here. I am recognizing that in the absence of any meaningful response from the "loyal opposition", what I'm really searching for is some reassurance that I am not alone in a wilderness of ignorance and superstition. :lol:

I have already wasted far too much time that I could have been out enjoying Baja California, which is what this forum used to be about.

Barry A. - 3-11-2015 at 11:02 AM

(Item #1) You'll see me respond very rarely, if you look back through this thread, I posted the USGS map of the past 108 years of depletion of our ground water reservoirs. The fact that our primary Mediterranean growing region of California has huge depletion of it's water should be a serious concern. But as always, facts get in the way of the debate.

(Item #2) Simply put, everyone who drives on a public road, goes camping or fishing or any other recreation in the USA is taking advantage of our government and it's resources.

(Item #3) The primary cause of bankruptcy for individuals in the USA for the past several decades has been Health Care expenses. Any attempt to effectively deal with that fact has been routinely obstructed until the past 6 years. The solution needs a lot of additional work but has been met with total obstructionism. :

Item #1------I saw that USGS map but could not fully understand it, and said so in a follow up question post. Specifically, what do the minus-numbers mean?

Item #2-----When was the last time you heard anybody complain about "roads" and resources/recreation facilities? THAT is a legitimate function of the Govt. IMO.

Item #3------INSURANCE, specifically HEALTH INSURANCE, is the answer that most people use to offset health related problems in this Country, especially the mega-problems. I have tons of it, personally----don't you? A healthy life-style helps also, as well as not doing very risky things.

Barry

David K - 3-11-2015 at 11:02 AM

Why are so many of you so unhappy?
It doesn't matter if I answer all your questions or not, because when I do, you don't like my reply and ignore it.
Some of you also misquote me to either try and make me sound wrong or can't accept I am right about some of the things I say. For example, I support paying taxes, fairly, by everyone who lives here old enough to. I do not support corporate welfare and the democrats are as guilty as the republicans on creating special deals for business. No special deals, just FAIR taxes for all, and limited government spending.

Mexitron - 3-11-2015 at 11:09 AM

Agree on not enabling the poor to stay where they are.
Military at adequate levels---sure---but as big as it is now? You know when you have this many corporations invested in the military the execs will find excuses to start wars. Iraq---two trillion dollars and counting.

Barry A. - 3-11-2015 at 11:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

That second part sounds a bit like conspiracy, to me--------I don't buy into that statement tho I am sure there is some truth to it in lobby efforts, not actually "starting wars" tho..

I can't remember the actual figures, but I understand that the Military is at record low levels now--------that is scary, to me.

Barry

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2015 at 11:32 AM

Why are so many of you so unhappy?
It doesn't matter if I answer all your questions or not, because when I do, you don't like my reply and ignore it.
Some of you also misquote me to either try and make me sound wrong or can't accept I am right about some of the things I say. For example, I support paying taxes, fairly, by everyone who lives here old enough to. I do not support corporate welfare and the democrats are as guilty as the republicans on creating special deals for business. No special deals, just FAIR taxes for all, and limited government spending.

there are 2 types of nomads. those that agree with DK, and those that don't. :lol:

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2015 at 11:55 AM

the economy in the USA has evolved to a state where the economy depends on a large class of "working poor" to fill jobs, and the middle and upper class depend on their employers for health insurance. the USA middle class enjoys a comfortable standard of living (i.e. cheap goods and services) only because a huge class of people are employed at low wages.

most of the working poor cannot afford health care or health insurance. most of the working poor employed by our largest employers, like walmart, are not given health insurance through their employers.

the reality is that a huge portion of our population in USA requires health insurance paid for by the government. it's basic human decency that our country should develop a system to provide health care for all it's citizens.

astute people realize that walmart good are cheap because the USA pays for necessities (health care) that walmart does not provide for it's employees. so you consumers should not complain about taxes to pay for health care of the poor as you are enjoying the flip side of cheap goods and services from employers that do not provide health care.

Osprey - 3-11-2015 at 11:55 AM

Goat, grammar police here. People are "Who", things are "That". So a better way to express your vacuous spewing would be "Those WHO agree, those WHO don't".

David K - 3-11-2015 at 11:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

there are 2 types of nomads. those that agree with DK, and those that don't. :lol:

I don't care if you agree with me or not, I just want all Nomads to be happy and nice to each other and accept that some of us like freedom and don't want a nanny state government.
If you believe the sea level is higher then do so because you see it is higher... don't just hand over your earnings to some bureaucrat because he told you that your taxes will change the climate.

:light:

[Edited on 3-11-2015 by David K]

Sweetwater - 3-11-2015 at 11:59 AM

When man continues to display active ignorance and expects God to cover for his indiscretions and ignorant behaviours, that not only scary, it's stupid.....

Of course, the USGS must have hatched this 108 year old data just to satisfy Gods ability to hurry up and fix the problems that humans have created.....

Barry A.

Quote:

Item #1------I saw that USGS map but could not fully understand it, and said so in a follow up question post. Specifically, what do the minus-numbers mean?

Are you seriously telling me that you don't understand those numbers represent the amount of depletion of those aquifers. Did you maybe miss the piece that says: Explanation - groundwater depletion in cubic kilometers?

And guess where that water has gone.....HUMANS have pumped it out of the aquifers to supplement their over use of the surface water....plain and simple and no volcano is magically going to replenish those aquifers, particularly the key ones in our DESERT southwest. Interesting that there are a couple of aquifers that are blue or blue green which have actually accumulated water over that 108 year period, are those the confusing negative numbers? Well, they mean that there has not been depletion but accumulation. I'm going to bet that we HUMANS somehow figure a way to tap into those aquifers to supplement our already severely depleted and ongoing losses.

Sorry for the ON TOPIC post to the original concern about the significant and serious drought that we HUMANS have to deal with....remember, don't worry, be happy, stay uninformed and live in your own little enclave of ignorance where all is sunshine and honey....

Sweetwater - 3-11-2015 at 12:06 PM

I do so enjoy science and our government which pools our collective financial resources to bring us information which private interests would never pursue unless it was in their best financial interests.

These images are from NASA and the interpretation is the effect on the central California Aquifer of the ongoing drought. Just to be crystal clear, the images show a sharp depletion of available aquifer water. No magic volcano available to refill them at the current rate that HUMANS continue to deplete them in conjunction with the muti-year drought.

Just to be clear Barry, the red colors and negative numbers clearly state that they reflect the decrease in amount of water in the aquifer......

Barry A. - 3-11-2015 at 12:16 PM

Many thanks, Sweetwater-------now I understand. I was not aware that ANY aquafirs were actually increasing in volume---------that is very interesting.

Other than your nutty comments attached to your post, I really appreciate seeing this map posted. Since my major was Geography and History, with a concentration in the Southwest USA, I have long been aware of the depletion of our fossil water, and have been concerned with that for 50+ years, but the graphics of this map reflect it well. Yes, it is a real problem.

Thanks again for the re-posting and explanation. My Family owns property in Borrego Springs as well as Owens Valley (eastern Sierra), and water is an ever increasing problem and controversy in both places.

Barry

Barry A. - 3-11-2015 at 12:25 PM

I do so enjoy science and our government which pools our collective financial resources to bring us information which private interests would never pursue unless it was in their best financial interests.

These images are from NASA and the interpretation is the effect on the central California Aquifer of the ongoing drought. Just to be crystal clear, the images show a sharp depletion of available aquifer water. No magic volcano available to refill them at the current rate that HUMANS continue to deplete them in conjunction with the muti-year drought.

Just to be clear Barry, the red colors and negative numbers clearly state that they reflect the decrease in amount of water in the aquifer......

Thanks, Sweetwater, for looking out for me.

Just as an aside: on the North Sacramento Valley aquifers, these short-term maps can be a little misleading, I believe. One or two good rain-years can drastically alter the ground water situation as you are probably aware. We live in Redding, CA at the far north end of the Sacto Valley----been here for 26 years. In normal years, so far in history, we do get a LOT of rain up here, but not for a while, of course----thus the 3 yr maps you posted reflect serious water depletion. We now are on mandated water-restrictions in Redding.

Barry

motoged - 3-11-2015 at 02:10 PM

We now are on mandated water-restrictions in Redding.

Barry

A good way of returning to my original post about water resources, droughts and other events affecting water resources.....and how we might manage them.

AKgringo - 3-11-2015 at 02:42 PM

As a side note about the California Central Valley aquifers, as the ancient water is pumped out, many of the sedimentary layer are collapsing resulting in dropping elevations. I have not seen a study on this effect, but it seems to me that even with abundant surface flows in the future, the ability of the aquifer to store water will be diminished. That ground level is not going to come back up creating a space for water.
I wonder if it would ever be practical to pump water into the aquifer during times of excess run off, or if that would just open up a new set of problems?

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2015 at 02:53 PM

We now are on mandated water-restrictions in Redding.

Barry

A good way of returning to my original post about water resources, droughts and other events affecting water resources.....and how we might manage them.

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2015 at 02:55 PM

blackwolfmt - 3-11-2015 at 03:23 PM

GGreat!! comics Goat, So the way I figure it is humans need to come up with ways to STOP wasting so much of this water. me personally I see way more of that than I do of conserving it I hope this makes sense to U nomads

David K - 3-11-2015 at 03:56 PM

Use more DRIP IRRIGATION! Watering sidewalks, driveways, your house, or the air isn't helping your plants grow or your water use to drop!

Upgrade your old lawn sprinklers to MP Rotators on any grass you do want or need to keep.

Upgrade to, or make your controller 'smart' by adding a weather monitor to automatically adjust watering duration based on the weather and all other factors (soil, slope, plants, sprinkler type, etc.)!

I will give free advice to anyone interested in these measures as my contribution to this situation.

blackwolfmt - 3-11-2015 at 04:02 PM

Use more DRIP IRRIGATION! Watering sidewalks, driveways, your house, or the air isn't helping your plants grow or your water use to drop!

Upgrade your old lawn sprinklers to MP Rotators on any grass you do want or need to keep.

Upgrade to, or make your controller 'smart' by adding a weather monitor to automatically adjust watering duration based on the weather and all other factors (soil, slope, plants, sprinkler type, etc.)!

I will give free advice to anyone interested in these measures as my contribution to this situation.

Com-on professor DK You gotta have better than that i am talking Vegas casinos and those formal town squares in California city's and DON"T forget all the pools U kali boys got going on

[Edited on 3-11-2015 by blackwolfmt]

redhilltown - 3-11-2015 at 11:47 PM

It is my understanding that the US Constitution as written and amended is considered to be the Model for the rest of the world Democracies, and many Countries have used it as a basis for writing their own version.

For me, my Family, and all my friends, the "best years" for us living under Capitalism in the USA have been the one's we have lived on a daily basis, up to lately. Things are looking pretty grim lately, at least for the Country, not for us personally.

It looks to me that the way the Progressives want to pay for all the "programs" they now have, and want to have, is mainly by taxing what they see as "the rich", the Corporations, and small business-------which is the very essence of Capitalism----in other words eroding away at the very Golden-Goose that made our standard of living and opportunity-for-all the envy of the World. There has got to be compromise on this well intentioned Progressive effort, and certainly a better way less we ruin the very system that has made ALL OF US (even the habitually poor) better off than before, and the beacon for millions to emulate or immigrate too.

Barry

"up to lately"...oh please...Like Obama has dismantled years and years of Republicans (like Bush II and Reagan) running up deficits and debt like meth addicts at the local corner. There is no "there", there as to what party spends...both sides can be accused of over spending... it is a complete and total myth that Republicans are the party of fiscal restraint.

Barry A. - 3-12-2015 at 10:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by redhilltown

"there is no there, there"-----------never understood what that meant. Here is a definition:

http://everything2.com/title/There+is+no+there+there

Not sure how that relates to my statement, however. :?:

Barry

mtgoat666 - 3-12-2015 at 10:28 AM

Barry

and,... 'you can't go home again'

getting old sucks if you are looking in the rearview mirror, so don't look!

Barry A. - 3-12-2015 at 11:14 AM

------and another one, "don't try and fix what ain't broke".

Barry

elgatoloco - 3-12-2015 at 11:29 AM

Denial is not just a river in Egypt. :saint:

Mexitron - 3-12-2015 at 01:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

Um, Eisenhower "Beware the military industrial complex".

military at a record low

J.P. - 3-12-2015 at 02:15 PM

BARRY, todays wars no longer require the Cannon Fodder of Yesterday. Thus lower numbers.

Sweetwater - 3-12-2015 at 02:21 PM

Quote: Originally posted by J.P.

BARRY, todays wars no longer require the Cannon Fodder of Yesterday. Thus lower numbers.

It just doesn't look like the military budget of the USA is eating less of my tax dollars to me....I think this data was generated in California so maybe it is nutty too....

motoged - 3-12-2015 at 02:30 PM

"Try to remember that a person is doing the best they can." Dalai Lama

A humbling notion when your expectations are not being met and you think a person isn't "doing their best".....a test to our compassion. :light:

Water shortage solution?

motoged - 3-12-2015 at 04:07 PM

A long haul with a bucket:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/ganymede-jupiter-s-largest-moon-has-ocean-lurking-below-nasa-1.2992435

redhilltown - 3-12-2015 at 11:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by redhilltown

Barry

I think you know what I meant as to "up to lately"...and I am perfectly aware of the origins of the quote. Do you mean 2008? Do you mean 2000 when Bush II took office and spent money left and right like it was candy? And enlarged the federal government by standards rarely seen in our history? And blew up the debt and deficits? So what "lately" do you mean?

When I ask the question to many of my good friends on the right (and I mean that sincerely!...hell, my parents are both WWII veterans and politically we agree on very little), as to the best years of capitalism the answer is almost ALWAYS the 1950's. But then you drill down a bit and that was the era when taxes were high on the rich, unions were thriving, there was a vibrant middle class, anyone could go to college, and the government under socialist Eisenhower built roads and infrastructure. Oh yeah, and as mentioned Mr. Socialist Eisenhower warned us against the idiotic over spending on the military.

Capitalism always has and always will be a mixture of forces and philosophies... to just cling to it blindly makes no sense. Which brings us back to the point of climate change and the argument that any controls on emissions will kill capitalism. Draconian bills such as the clean water act (by another republican socialist) didn't seem to get in the way of progress over the last 45+ years.

I just need to know what "up to lately" are you referring to?

wessongroup - 3-13-2015 at 12:08 AM

Spot on ...

Barry A. - 3-13-2015 at 09:35 AM

Redhilltown--------my reference to "up to lately" referred to the last 6 years. The budget-busting money now being spent by the Fed Govt. is for things that simply are a mistake and socially destructive (nanny-state) in my opinion, and I have never supported them. Higher taxes in this Administration means more spending on the same wrong things, most likely, and therefore I am against them. I agree that all (?) of the things that you mention above are, and were good expenditures, and most Repubs are NOT/were not against them. The debts we are now running up are unsustainable (the payments will kill us) and worse are being incurred to pay for things that most Repubs don't support. More regulation just compounds the problem reducing future GDP, and thus tax income.

We can argue forever on the Bush II overspending, but many of us think that at the time it was understandable and necessary. Hind-sight is always revealing, but at the time it look valid to many of us.

The Military is being gutted, regardless of claims to the contrary, or reasons why, and that is very worrisome. I come from a multi-generational Military Family, so obviously am biased.

Fighting (throwing money at) Climate Change is futile for the most part and a waste of money. I NEVER denied it was happening. I am all for development of alternative energy sources, especially solar.

Barry

[Edited on 3-13-2015 by Barry A.]

dtbushpilot - 3-13-2015 at 12:47 PM

"Try to remember that a person is doing the best they can." Dalai Lama

A humbling notion when your expectations are not being met and you think a person isn't "doing their best".....a test to our compassion. :light:

The Dali Lama obviously never had employees....

motoged - 3-13-2015 at 01:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by dtbushpilot

The Dali Lama obviously never had employees....

David,
Well, I trust that he uses a different management model :light:

dtbushpilot - 3-13-2015 at 04:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by dtbushpilot

The Dali Lama obviously never had employees....

David,
Well, I trust that he uses a different management model :light:

Probably why he wears a sheet.... :lol:

bajabuddha - 3-13-2015 at 04:38 PM

Chu put sheet on me I keel you...... :biggrin:

[Edited on 3-13-2015 by bajabuddha]

motoged - 3-13-2015 at 05:49 PM

Careful, David....you and the Dalai both shave your heads.....maybe you are on to something

bajabuddha - 3-13-2015 at 06:00 PM

I DO NOT shave my head... however, I do take it to the #1 attachment on my Wahl....

And remember, bald is beautiful, at least once a week.

redhilltown - 3-13-2015 at 06:10 PM

Redhilltown--------my reference to "up to lately" referred to the last 6 years. The budget-busting money now being spent by the Fed Govt. is for things that simply are a mistake and socially destructive (nanny-state) in my opinion, and I have never supported them. Higher taxes in this Administration means more spending on the same wrong things, most likely, and therefore I am against them. I agree that all (?) of the things that you mention above are, and were good expenditures, and most Repubs are NOT/were not against them. The debts we are now running up are unsustainable (the payments will kill us) and worse are being incurred to pay for things that most Repubs don't support. More regulation just compounds the problem reducing future GDP, and thus tax income.

We can argue forever on the Bush II overspending, but many of us think that at the time it was understandable and necessary. Hind-sight is always revealing, but at the time it look valid to many of us.

The Military is being gutted, regardless of claims to the contrary, or reasons why, and that is very worrisome. I come from a multi-generational Military Family, so obviously am biased.

Fighting (throwing money at) Climate Change is futile for the most part and a waste of money. I NEVER denied it was happening. I am all for development of alternative energy sources, especially solar.

Barry

[Edited on 3-13-2015 by Barry A.]

You're a well reasoned guy Barry and I hope to share a plate of hamachi some day in Baja with you...even if I think you are wrong!

The nanny state expenditures that drive you crazy are a small fraction of the budget...unless you are throwing into the mix medicare and social security. I get tired of the democrats grandstanding on these issues when they damn well know something has to be done. But if you want a government nanny state, go no further than the military that is given BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars for projects they don't even want...just so politicians can throw the pork around. But to be fair, these dollars hire people and those people spend money and buy houses and cars... I am a huge believer in infrastructure job bills...don't give money away, hire them and get something for those dollars!

Now...getting back to that Yellowtail...

monoloco - 3-13-2015 at 08:11 PM

The Military is being gutted, regardless of claims to the contrary, or reasons why, and that is very worrisome. I come from a multi-generational Military Family, so obviously am biased.

Barry

[Edited on 3-13-2015 by Barry A.]

Debunking the claim that the military is being gutted:
http://www.theburningplatform.com/2014/03/29/debunking-the-g...

SFandH - 3-14-2015 at 06:24 AM

The Military is being gutted, regardless of claims to the contrary, or reasons why,.............

I think you just said that you believe in something without regard to the facts.

:?:

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2015 at 10:48 AM

The anti-science party platform of the GOP is dangerous. Labeling scientists as liars because you don't like the facts?????
The GOP must be stopped, they are dragging us down into another dark age, a period where fanatics squash free speech, use religious and economic reasons to persecute scientists, disparage science, extinguish curiosity,...

The GOP is taking over school boards and replacing science with religious nonsense. The GOP in Florida has banned state employees from mentioning climate change when discussing climate!

Another dark age is already here!

bezzell - 3-16-2015 at 11:01 AM

Liberal propaganda!! .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h92Ath_2XA

LancairDriver - 3-16-2015 at 11:01 AM

Got to agree with Goat on the dark ages part. I believe they started about 2008. :biggrin:

motoged - 3-16-2015 at 11:22 AM

Got to agree with Goat on the dark ages part. I believe they started about 2008. :biggrin:

Oh, I get it....a racial slur :no:

Barry A. - 3-16-2015 at 11:58 AM

The Military is being gutted, regardless of claims to the contrary, or reasons why,.............

I think you just said that you believe in something without regard to the facts.

:?:

---I am just going by what Admirals and Generals etc. tell me via FOX NEWS etc.. When I want information on Military matters I like to listen to the experts-------that being "Generals and Admirals"--------------like the Progressives are always telling me to do (unless the experts say something they don't like).

Barry

DianaT - 3-16-2015 at 12:04 PM

The Military is being gutted, regardless of claims to the contrary, or reasons why,.............

I think you just said that you believe in something without regard to the facts.

:?:

Barry, I am really surprised by your answer. Of course the Admirals and Generals who appear on Faux News are the ones that agree with their agenda just like the ones who appear on MSNBC have a completely different story. They are simply political tools.

monoloco - 3-16-2015 at 12:06 PM

The Military is being gutted, regardless of claims to the contrary, or reasons why,.............

I think you just said that you believe in something without regard to the facts.

:?:

What do you think about this retired major general's view?

http://contraryperspective.com/2015/03/16/sniper-chris-kyle-...

motoged - 3-16-2015 at 12:24 PM

Bill O'Reilly....Oh, o'Really?

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/03/01/new-exaggeration-allegations-against-bill-oreilly.cnn?iid=ob_article_footer_expansion&iref=obnetwork

monoloco - 3-16-2015 at 12:34 PM

Bill O'Liarly.

SFandH - 3-16-2015 at 12:36 PM

The Military is being gutted, regardless of claims to the contrary, or reasons why,.............

I think you just said that you believe in something without regard to the facts.

:?:

OK at least you're listening to opinions of folks that don't have a vested interest in the military budget.

But congress has mandated cuts in the military budget. That's a good thing. It's way too much money that we don't have. Best thing congress has done recently. IMHO

Plus our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan is greatly reduced, the budget should be cut back, and we've managed to stay out of other countries like Syria and Libya. Thank you President Obama.

For the next war taxes should be raised to pay for it. Then we'll see how gung-ho the conservatives are.

[Edited on 3-16-2015 by SFandH]

LancairDriver - 3-16-2015 at 01:17 PM

Got to agree with Goat on the dark ages part. I believe they started about 2008. :biggrin:

Oh, I get it....a racial slur :no:

Given your past posting track record on the way your dark mind works, it's not surprising you would come to the sickest interpretation of that remark. Disgusting.

monoloco - 3-16-2015 at 03:14 PM

The Military is being gutted, regardless of claims to the contrary, or reasons why,.............

I think you just said that you believe in something without regard to the facts.

:?:

OK at least you're listening to opinions of folks that don't have a vested interest in the military budget.

They are working overtime on both sides of the aisle to roll back the sequester. Don't underestimate the war lobby, that's what all the saber rattling is about. Nothing gets the military budget increased faster than scaring the bejeezus out of the voter with nuclear holocaust scenarios.

SFandH - 3-16-2015 at 03:19 PM

Darn it, you spoiled my optimism, correctly so.

motoged - 3-16-2015 at 03:24 PM

Got to agree with Goat on the dark ages part. I believe they started about 2008. :biggrin:

Oh, I get it....a racial slur :no:

Given your past posting track record on the way your dark mind works, it's not surprising you would come to the sickest interpretation of that remark. Disgusting.

Your remark was disgusting....I will leave it up to you to defend it.

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2015 at 03:33 PM

Blind A$shole voters would be a bit more careful in their voting for GOP war mongers if all wars had mandatory draft for 50 percent of the force, and mandatory income tax to pay for war costs in year war costs incurred. When calendar year ends dec 31, IRS should issue by jan 30 the special war tax rate, a tax rate and obligation that will have no loopholes, all pay 100% of their obligation.

Re generals and admirals opinions about DOD funding, they are all biased to spout nonsense to fund their own nonsense.

The worst offenders of the nanny state are the legions of military slackers and veterans that think their service requires taxpayers to keep paying and paying.
Eliminate all double dipping of ex military collecting pensions while otherwise employed!
End the VA for all but amputees and disabled!

LancairDriver - 3-16-2015 at 03:54 PM

[Edited on 3-16-2015 by SFandH][/rquote]They are working overtime on both sides of the aisle to roll back the sequester. Don't underestimate the war lobby, that's what all the saber rattling is about. Nothing gets the military budget increased faster than scaring the bejeezus out of the voter with nuclear holocaust scenarios.[/rquote]

We missed a golden opportunity after the Soviet Union threw in the towel and ended the cold war to make the US and the World a better place, having tons of money to spend on peaceful projects. Instead we embarked on a campaign to expand NATO and the EU and surround Russia with NATO members, and provoke them into helping scare the bejeezus out of us to keep on endless military spending although we are years ahead in Military technology. Throw in starting a few wars in the middle east, and helping Bin Ladin succeed beyond his wildest dreams in stirring up the Muslim world as well as dramatically changing our free way of life and driving us into near bankruptcy. Also destabilizing a few governments such as Egypt, Syria, Ukraine and Libya, who had the highest standard of living in the middle east and where Ghadafi did a good job of containing the terrorist element for the last ten years.
Our latest adventure in overthrowing the government in Ukraine and acquiring Russia's naval base there has backfired badly, thanks to Vladimir Putin digging in his heals and holding the Nuclear grenade in his hand, which our warmongers have finally paid attention to. Our 550 some military bases around the world compared to Russia's four or five isn't nearly enough of an advantage. However, the down side is that they will now howl for more high tech, ridiculously expensive weaponry to counter this and restart the cold war and maybe even push to warm it up a bit.

SFandH - 3-16-2015 at 04:25 PM

Our latest adventure in overthrowing the government in Ukraine and acquiring Russia's naval base there has backfired badly, thanks to Vladimir Putin digging in his heals and holding the Nuclear grenade in his hand, which our warmongers have finally paid attention to.

Wow, that's news to me. I'm not doubting what you say, I've never heard what's going on in the Ukraine described in that manner.

[Edited on 3-16-2015 by SFandH]

motoged - 3-16-2015 at 04:45 PM

Just views from a "light' mind.... :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 3-16-2015 at 05:24 PM

Got to agree with Goat on the dark ages part. I believe they started about 2008. :biggrin:

Oh, I get it....a racial slur :no:

Given your past posting track record on the way your dark mind works, it's not surprising you would come to the sickest interpretation of that remark. Disgusting.

Your remark was disgusting....I will leave it up to you to defend it.

Your remark was a racist slur. You can play the double meaning game to your advantage but it changes little.

monoloco - 3-16-2015 at 05:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Blind A$shole voters would be a bit more careful in their voting for GOP war mongers if all wars had mandatory draft for 50 percent of the force, and mandatory income tax to pay for war costs in year war costs incurred. When calendar year ends dec 31, IRS should issue by jan 30 the special war tax rate, a tax rate and obligation that will have no loopholes, all pay 100% of their obligation.

Re generals and admirals opinions about DOD funding, they are all biased to spout nonsense to fund their own nonsense.

The worst offenders of the nanny state are the legions of military slackers and veterans that think their service requires taxpayers to keep paying and paying.
Eliminate all double dipping of ex military collecting pensions while otherwise employed!
End the VA for all but amputees and disabled!

Goat, It's not just the GOP. There are plenty of neocons in the Democratic party. Look at the klusterfock they created with their preemptive war in Libya and misguided adventures in the Ukraine.

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2015 at 05:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by monoloco

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Goat, It's not just the GOP. There are plenty of neocons in the Democratic party. Look at the klusterfock they created with their preemptive war in Libya and misguided adventures in the Ukraine.

draft their children! no college deferments! flat feet no longer an excuse (give them dr scholls insoles)

LancairDriver - 3-16-2015 at 06:01 PM

Quote:

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Got to agree with Goat on the dark ages part. I believe they started about 2008. :biggrin:

Oh, I get it....a racial slur :no:

Given your past posting track record on the way your dark mind works, it's not surprising you would come to the sickest interpretation of that remark. Disgusting.

Your remark was disgusting....I will leave it up to you to defend it.

Your remark was a racist slur. You can play the double meaning game to your
advantage but it changes little.

Looks like you are the one to push the "double meaning" with a clumsy race baiting comment hoping to appear as a liberal, racially tolerant champion, without a clue about anyone else's position. Do you people somehow get the recognition or satisfaction you are trying to gain through this? I won't waste my time outlining all of the "dark age" of the past six years, that include the highest national debt of any period in our history, The highest number of people on public assistance, approaching half of the nation, unemployment and underemployment, causing as much death and distruction in the world since the Bush days, to name just a few.

[Edited on 3-17-2015 by LancairDriver]

Cisco - 3-16-2015 at 07:04 PM

California Is Turning Back Into A Desert And There Are No Contingency Plans.

http://www.theburningplatform.com/2015/03/16/california-is-t...

redhilltown - 3-16-2015 at 11:30 PM

Quote:

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe