BajaNomad

Arizonas new Imigration Bill(This has turned into a Rat Hole)

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toneart - 5-1-2010 at 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
A Guest-Worker program has ALWAYS been the proper way to deal with the "supposed" need for immigrant labor.

The Liberals, bowing to their Union constituency, have always been the opposition.


That certainly would be the case. They could possibly change their tune if the program could assure that guest workers would be working only in determined capacities such as agriculture harvesting and other seasonal jobs. The problem (not a problem for employers) comes when immigrants come in and take over job sites and entire vocations. We don't need guest workers working in fast food. The fast food industry can pay market wages just like In & Out Burgers does.


Hey Packo, can you make it to join us at Mision Santa Maria? We haven't seen you since Camp Gecko New Years 2005! (That was Baja Angel's first trip with me to Baja)...

(Hope it is okay to hijack this thread and talk about a Baja trip! LOL)


That's a nice gesture, David!:yes:

Oso - 5-1-2010 at 02:12 PM

"Well, as you know, Arizona has passed the strictest immigration law in the country, and in response, the mayor of San Francisco is pushing for a boycott of the state of Arizona. This could be devastating to gay rodeos." –Jay Leno

norte - 5-1-2010 at 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
"Well, as you know, Arizona has passed the strictest immigration law in the country, and in response, the mayor of San Francisco is pushing for a boycott of the state of Arizona. This could be devastating to gay rodeos." –Jay Leno





Oh no. Gov Brewer signed major rollbacks in the law provisions... does that mean.......

JESSE - 5-1-2010 at 02:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by norte
Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
"Well, as you know, Arizona has passed the strictest immigration law in the country, and in response, the mayor of San Francisco is pushing for a boycott of the state of Arizona. This could be devastating to gay rodeos." –Jay Leno





Oh no. Gov Brewer signed major rollbacks in the law provisions... does that mean.......


Oh yes it does.

I have no problems with the law with these new changes, but it was good to know where people really stand.

rts551 - 5-1-2010 at 05:29 PM

I still hear the echos of DavidK and Billm "drill baby Drill" I am sure when its over I will hear the same echos of "keep the Mexican's out"

Cypress - 5-1-2010 at 05:38 PM

rts551, What you hear are reruns of Democrat talking points.:lol:

This law says show us your papers. In response, we’ll show the State of Arizona the Constitution

mtgoat666 - 5-1-2010 at 05:43 PM

a couple letters from the NYT sums up the issue, and why cosmetic changes to law have not fixed a bad law....

Quote:

To the Editor:

While it is true that federal law requires noncitizens to carry immigration documents, this is almost never enforced or prosecuted. What’s more, it’s a far different story to permit federal officials to punish a noncitizen for failure to carry immigration documents and for state and local officials to do the same. Immigration regulation is a federal function.

I find it disingenuous to cite a hypothetical of 12 nervous, shifty-eyed passengers crammed into a minivan being stopped by the police for speeding as being the typical case in which the Arizona police will inquire into a person’s immigration status.

What about the case of two young males wearing sombreros speaking in Spanish in front of a convenience store, or three poorly dressed Spanish-speaking women sitting together at a cafe? Are we really to believe that Arizona’s police officers are not going to make inquiries in those situations?

This law isn’t good immigration enforcement; it’s an invitation to flagrant abuse of the civil rights of anyone caught in its web, including American citizens, permanent residents and applicants for asylum or another lawful status.

Theodore Ruthizer
New York, April 29, 2010

The writer, a lawyer who works on business immigration matters and a lecturer at Columbia Law School, is a former president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association.

--------------------------------•

To the Editor:

The reason the American Civil Liberties Union is calling the Arizona law unconstitutional is that it’s true. It’s also discriminatory, unfair and un-American.

It is hard to imagine how this law can be enforced without racial profiling, and claims to the contrary are disingenuous. On what other basis would a police officer suspect that someone is not lawfully present in the United States?

Hollow language inserted in the bill supposedly to prevent such profiling is cosmetic. It won’t prevent the police from asking people for their papers based on race and the way they look.

Racial profiling is already rampant in Arizona, and this law will make it worse. We have seen the effects of the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office’s targeting of Latinos, including American citizens and lawful permanent residents, in its mass sweeps and enforcement operations. The A.C.L.U. has sued that office, and the United States Justice Department has started a civil rights investigation into its practices.

This extreme law puts Arizona completely out of step with American values of fairness and equality. The A.C.L.U. will vigorously challenge this law in the courtroom and elsewhere to make sure that it doesn’t take effect.

This law says show us your papers. In response, we’ll show the State of Arizona the Constitution.

Anthony D. Romero
Executive Director, A.C.L.U.
New York, April 29, 2010


[Edited on 5-2-2010 by mtgoat666]

rts551 - 5-1-2010 at 06:09 PM

Oh yes I forgot Cypress.... going to Lousiana soon are ou


Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
rts551, What you hear are reruns of Democrat talking points.:lol:

Adding to the Mix

Gypsy Jan - 5-1-2010 at 06:35 PM

Today, a Mexican friend told me that his brother is a wealthy Mexican American living in Arizona and, "He can't wait to get stopped because he is going to sue, sue, sue."

irenemm - 5-1-2010 at 06:43 PM

Well you know he has the American Spirit. Sue sue. that is why we are like we are.

Good he has money to spend. that helps the economy.

I gald my kids are American Mexican

Packoderm - 5-1-2010 at 07:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Today, a Mexican friend told me that his brother is a wealthy Mexican American living in Arizona and, "He can't wait to get stopped because he is going to sue, sue, sue."


I really don't think they'll be stopping any wealthy people. I'd look for day workers in front of Home Depot. Vocation profiling is different from racial profiling. If official data states that landscape company employees are more likely to be illegal immigrants than accountants, then it makes sense to check more landscapers than accountants. But the revised law doesn't even allow that. Those against the new AZ law will insist that it will need to be as toothless as federal enforcement has been. They want limitless immigration. That's fine. They can propose and get a law passed that allows limitless immigration. If any Mexican nationals are here legally, they can join in the political action because foreigners are not barred from doing that in this country. They might have a tougher time bringing in politically active Guatemalans though because the Mexican Govt. is pretty harsh on those who cross their southern border en route to the U.S. or to Mexico looking for jobs.

Cypress - 5-1-2010 at 07:33 PM

rts551, No, and I'm sure that there are millions of people along the gulf coast from Texas to Florida that appreciate your thoughts. Oh yes, and I won't forget.:fire:

rts551 - 5-1-2010 at 08:12 PM

Not to scared of your internet threat, Cypress/ And Yes I'll bet those millions wish you had not been yellin for the drillin

I sympathize with them. and you what do you do


Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
rts551, No, and I'm sure that there are millions of people along the gulf coast from Texas to Florida that appreciate your thoughts. Oh yes, and I won't forget.:fire:

mtgoat666 - 5-1-2010 at 08:27 PM

rts551, Cypress:

y'all need to smoke some dope and mellow out. your schoolyard bragadacio is unbecoming of an arizona redneck and a north idaho cracker.

feel the love!

yes we can!

hope!

pax!

David K - 5-2-2010 at 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
I still hear the echos of DavidK and Billm "drill baby Drill" I am sure when its over I will hear the same echos of "keep the Mexican's out"


Sorry, wrong again... at least for your blanket inclusion of me... This law has NOTHING to do with "Mexicans", the law applies to Canadians and Albanians as well. Illegally in the country is what it is about, so plain and simple. I love Mexican people, but I have no time for those who cannot respect our borders.

mtgoat666 - 5-2-2010 at 07:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
This law has NOTHING to do with "Mexicans", the law applies to Canadians and Albanians as well. Illegally in the country is what it is about, so plain and simple. I love Mexican people, but I have no time for those who cannot respect our borders.


DK:
No one believes you when you say the law does not have roots in bigotry. The fact is that most minorities believe that the Arizona law and similar laws are rooted in bigotry, and it is obvious in Arizona that the most vocal proponents of the law (esp. the laws author) are bigots. The same thing goes for "birthers." The GOP and the Tea Partiers are committing political suicide. Latino-bashing will be political suicide in a century when Hispanic Americans are well on their way to becoming the largest minority in the country and are already the swing voters in many states.

David K - 5-2-2010 at 07:59 AM

Again, you miss the facts because you are blinded by the lies... Laws are on paper and are the rules of the land.

The law says NOTHING about "Mexicans" or targeting anybody for that matter. It is about carrying out the law to those who broke it.

Why is this beyond your ability to understand? Why do you want law breakers to walk freely or worse, why do you want to reward those who break the law with benefits that even citizens don't get? Arizona has had enough, and they are doing what the federal government has failed to do... Soon other states will also follow Arizona's move. They may word the bill in 3rd grade terminology so you on the left might understand it, however! :rolleyes:

When did profiling become an evil word?

Lee - 5-2-2010 at 08:05 AM

Racial profiling is alive and well at US airports and those flying out of the airports are happy for it. If a person (profiled as male, Middle Eastern in appearance, etc.) fits the criteria of ''suspect,'' they will be questioned, asked for ID, and generally scrutinized. If I were flying out of airports where this were taking place, I'd be happy.

I'm reading a lot of comments about how unfair profiling is but I don't read any comments about how the feds have failed to prevent undocumented people crossing US borders illegally. If the solution is somewhere in the middle, and many agree that racism is not a good thing, let's hear how to fix the problem.

Bad legislation doesn't work and will eventually go away. To do nothing, or worse, to continue with failed policies is equally bad.

Looks to me like Arizona wants to stop the problem of illegal immigration. Not everyone in that state is racist.

If those crossing into Arizona feel the heat, that's a good thing. WHen they start funneling into California because of it, California will need to address the problem. What's California doing?

Arnold was on a talk show recently saying California wasn't going to do what Arizona was doing -- but I didn't hear him talking about solutions.

Anyone have a better solution to airport security and fairness? Ignore those fitting the ''profile?'' I hope not.

durrelllrobert - 5-2-2010 at 08:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Diana and the Goat (and others) are really going to love this one-----

------our Navy is plotting against us for sure, for sure!!! Spending money to "change" this building is insane IMO!!!!

http://www.10news.com/news/23284992/detail.html

If reshaped as a mirror image, like the Navaho tribal sybal, the Apaches would complain:lol::lol::lol:

DENNIS - 5-2-2010 at 08:14 AM

Those are good points, Lee. Makes me wonder....when the activists are done sniveling about profiling in Phoenix, will we have to hear their wailing about profiling at the border? They won't stop until everything is their way.
I am so sick and tired of listening to them and their self-rightous crap.

capt. mike - 5-2-2010 at 08:19 AM

good points DK but you're wasting time with these quislings for which the [our] arguments ought to be pellucid but are not due to their inability to see beyond their myopic ojos.

they are usually impecunious so they always take that side - and hope to extract their own social handouts cause they have no gumption to work for themselves.
i liken them to classic tarradiddlers which pop up on every controversy for which they have few valid points based in fact or documentable evidence .

Joe Arpaio summed it up best on Bret Baier's show this week - when qusetioned about the need to "profile" he quipped - we don't need to go that far. If asked for an ID and someone doesn't have one - that's a clue. And if they can't speak English.....another clue - usually with those 2 events in play...the object is usually here illegally.... ROTFLMFAO!!:lol::lol:

durrelllrobert - 5-2-2010 at 08:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bonanza bucko
I don't understand the concern with officers asking for "papers" which a loaded word that attempts to spin the procedure negatively. You get asked for your "papers" about twenty times a day when you have to show a picture ID....ie Driver's License...to use a credit card, to get admission to a gummint office and about fifty other reasons. If you get stopped for an infraction you have to show it as the first part of the cops' procedures. That is EXACTLY what will happen as this law is enforced.....NOBODY is gonna be "racially profiled" by the cops. The law requires that a probable cause for asking for the ID must be present.


BB :-)

Wait until all citizens have to start carrying a National ID card, as Obama would like to have happen:fire::fire:

David K - 5-2-2010 at 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
good points DK but you're wasting time with these quislings for which the [our] arguments ought to be pellucid but are not due to their inability to see beyond their myopic ojos.

they are usually impecunious so they always take that side - and hope to extract their own social handouts cause they have no gumption to work for themselves.
i liken them to classic tarradiddlers which pop up on every controversy for which they have few valid points based in fact or documentable evidence .

Joe Arpaio summed it up best on Bret Baier's show this week - when qusetioned about the need to "profile" he quipped - we don't need to go that far. If asked for an ID and someone doesn't have one - that's a clue. And if they can't speak English.....another clue - usually with those 2 events in play...the object is usually here illegally.... ROTFLMFAO!!:lol::lol:


If they do speak English, but say "eh?" after each sentence, they could be one of those illegal Canadians! A Moose Head beer in their hand is another sign!

rts551 - 5-2-2010 at 08:30 AM

Funny coming from a couple guys who aren't working.

Me, I am comfortably retired and don't need a handout



Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
good points DK but you're wasting time with these quislings for which the [our] arguments ought to be pellucid but are not due to their inability to see beyond their myopic ojos.

they are usually impecunious so they always take that side - and hope to extract their own social handouts cause they have no gumption to work for themselves.
i liken them to classic tarradiddlers which pop up on every controversy for which they have few valid points based in fact or documentable evidence .

Joe Arpaio summed it up best on Bret Baier's show this week - when qusetioned about the need to "profile" he quipped - we don't need to go that far. If asked for an ID and someone doesn't have one - that's a clue. And if they can't speak English.....another clue - usually with those 2 events in play...the object is usually here illegally.... ROTFLMFAO!!:lol::lol:

David K - 5-2-2010 at 08:32 AM

Oh, I do work (and pay taxes)... just a whole lot less since the Democrats took control of congress!

DENNIS - 5-2-2010 at 08:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Oh, I do work (and pay taxes)... just a whole lot less since the Democrats took control of congress!


David, if you'll edit this statement, I'll delete the quote. Otherwise it will haunt you forever. :lol:

rts551 - 5-2-2010 at 08:38 AM

Hey com on....It's classic




Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Oh, I do work (and pay taxes)... just a whole lot less since the Democrats took control of congress!



[Edited on 5-2-2010 by rts551]

durrelllrobert - 5-2-2010 at 08:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
What does an Arizona gringo look like?

Oh...I know. They're white.


According to the 2008 US Census only 58.4% are white and the other 41.6% are either Hispanic, Native Indians, Black, Asian, or Pacific Islanders. If you add in estimated illegals it's more like 50-50:P:P

capt. mike - 5-2-2010 at 08:42 AM

"Funny coming from a couple guys who aren't working."

who are those?
not me - i am working - just not at the volume i'd like. I wouldn't trade self employment for anything, and i stay pretty busy with new bids weekly and consulting - which has gained velocity recently thanks to renewable energy opportunites..

the option of retirement is a good one when one is ready. i could move to baja now if i wanted and get by comfortably but i'd rather put it off until i can find a place with shuffle board and dinner at 4:30....:spingrin:

durrelllrobert - 5-2-2010 at 08:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by capt. mike
estimated 6.5 million Mexicans

i think it is more like 10-12 MM.


I think it's racial profiling to count them. No No No...we don't want any of that now, do we. :lol:

The US Census Bureau includes Hispanics as part of the white population:?:

David K - 5-2-2010 at 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Oh, I do work (and pay taxes)... just a whole lot less since the Democrats took control of congress!


David, if you'll edit this statement, I'll delete the quote. Otherwise it will haunt you forever. :lol:


Ummm, why do I need to edit? My (and all other home improvement businesses) business dropped a lot two years ago and a lot more last year... this year, the rain has a lot to do with a slow start, but until November people are being very cautious with their money. Things were doing well until banks were forced to loan money to people who didn't normally qualify for home loans. Owning a home is not a 'right'... But, because of what they did, those and others no longer have a home! Thanks Harry Reed and Nancy Palosi... a couple of #@!%*

durrelllrobert - 5-2-2010 at 09:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Donjulio
Why should we be able to enter and leave Mexico anytime we want, be able to pay a small amount of money and legally work here and pretty much do whatever we would like to do and Mexicans don't have that same opportunity with the US? Why do we feel that we are special and entitled?


Because (most of us) are here legally:?:

DENNIS - 5-2-2010 at 09:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Oh, I do work (and pay taxes)... just a whole lot less since the Democrats took control of congress!


David, if you'll edit this statement, I'll delete the quote. Otherwise it will haunt you forever. :lol:


Ummm, why do I need to edit?


Well, you don't have to, but your statement clearly says you pay a whole lot less taxes since the Democrats took control of congress.

Never mind. We'll just let Goat take it from here.

David K - 5-2-2010 at 09:06 AM

Mexico keeps the border crossing almost pain free for the U.S. BECAUSE we are a BIG source of income to Mexico... or used to be, anyway.

While there are many good, legal Mexicans that benefit the United States businesses... there are maybe 20 million illegals that are a drain on our society, medical services, etc. and take jobs from Americans.

Mexico doesn't allow Americans to work in Mexico, unless you have a sponsor and can prove that you have skills not available at that location. Mexico puts Mexicans first (good for them)! The counrty has an obligation to its citizens... too bad America doesn't do what Mexico does in that respect!

David K - 5-2-2010 at 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Oh, I do work (and pay taxes)... just a whole lot less since the Democrats took control of congress!


David, if you'll edit this statement, I'll delete the quote. Otherwise it will haunt you forever. :lol:


Ummm, why do I need to edit?


Well, you don't have to, but your statement clearly says you pay a whole lot less taxes since the Democrats took control of congress.

Never mind. We'll just let Goat take it from here.


I pay less taxes BECAUSE I make less money... Tax rate reductions come from Republicans who empower the people... Tax hikes come friom Democrats who empower the government.

rts551 - 5-2-2010 at 09:11 AM

This one ranks about the highest I have seen in pure ignorance. I think people on both sides of the isle realize what happened to the housng market and banks.


Quote:
Originally posted by David K

Ummm, why do I need to edit? My (and all other home improvement businesses) business dropped a lot two years ago and a lot more last year... this year, the rain has a lot to do with a slow start, but until November people are being very cautious with their money. Things were doing well until banks were forced to loan money to people who didn't normally qualify for home loans. Owning a home is not a 'right'... But, because of what they did, those and others no longer have a home! Thanks Harry Reed and Nancy Palosi... a couple of #@!%*

durrelllrobert - 5-2-2010 at 09:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
The Urban Institute, a DC based think tank estimates that there are currently 75,000 Canadian illegals in the US.

and just how many US citizens are living illegally in Canada including all of the off-spring of the Vietnam war draft dodgers?:lol::lol:

Barry A. - 5-2-2010 at 09:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
This one ranks about the highest I have seen in pure ignorance. I think people on both sides of the isle realize what happened to the housng market and banks.


Quote:
Originally posted by David K

Ummm, why do I need to edit? My (and all other home improvement businesses) business dropped a lot two years ago and a lot more last year... this year, the rain has a lot to do with a slow start, but until November people are being very cautious with their money. Things were doing well until banks were forced to loan money to people who didn't normally qualify for home loans. Owning a home is not a 'right'... But, because of what they did, those and others no longer have a home! Thanks Harry Reed and Nancy Palosi... a couple of #@!%*


Oh really, rts??? I did not know that. Fannie and Freddie are probably the two biggest culprits in the mortgage business failure, and the main cause of the failure of the financial system indirectly, tho there are many causes, I will grant you. So, David has it essentially right from what I understand, and as far as he took it.

Isn't it interesting that the Dems suggested "cure" within the Financial Reform Bill ignores Fannie and Freddie? Wow, how strange!! :rolleyes:

(we have now entered the OFF TOPIC forum, FOR SURE!!!)

Barry

mtgoat666 - 5-2-2010 at 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
This one ranks about the highest I have seen in pure ignorance. I think people on both sides of the isle realize what happened to the housng market and banks.


Quote:
Originally posted by David K

Ummm, why do I need to edit? My (and all other home improvement businesses) business dropped a lot two years ago and a lot more last year... this year, the rain has a lot to do with a slow start, but until November people are being very cautious with their money. Things were doing well until banks were forced to loan money to people who didn't normally qualify for home loans. Owning a home is not a 'right'... But, because of what they did, those and others no longer have a home! Thanks Harry Reed and Nancy Palosi... a couple of #@!%*


yes, dk is an idiot (and he makes excuses for the racist practices of his party). nobody forced the banks to make bad loans.

Wrong

Dave - 5-2-2010 at 10:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
nobody forced the banks to make bad loans.


Beginning with the Clinton administration lenders were forced to relax credit restrictions.

oldlady - 5-2-2010 at 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.

Oh really, rts??? I did not know that. Fannie and Freddie are probably the two biggest culprits in the mortgage business failure, and the main cause of the failure of the financial system indirectly, tho there are many causes, I will grant you. So, David has it essentially right from what I understand, and as far as he took it.

Isn't it interesting that the Dems suggested "cure" within the Financial Reform Bill ignores Fannie and Freddie? Wow, how strange!! :rolleyes:

(we have now entered the OFF TOPIC forum, FOR SURE!!!)

Barry

They're a little confused. Two months before Fannie and Freddie financially disintegrated Barney Fwank said everything was just fine and was indignant that there was any question about their solvency.
So,sime of the best jaw dropping remarks of this past week had to be the Democratic congressman who asked Goldman Sachs how they could sell such crap when "EVERYBODY KNEW" in 2007" that the mortgage market was underwater. Well, Mr. Congressman, Barney didn't and his finger was supposed to be closer to the pulse than Moody. Goldman didn't say that, no huevos. Sure would have added to the farce if they had. But since Congress did know in 2007, would have been less of a mess if they had done something.

Haven't read much about all those bonuses to F&F executives either.

Dave's right about the Clinton administration, his HUD Secretary, Cisneros ,was spokesperson for the easier path to the American Dream. Policy changes and speeches. One given at Harvard was a real beaut. Took "chicken in every pot" to a whole new level...and "redlining" the gift that still keeps on giving.

Plenty of blame to go around, and still is to this day. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Goldman. But I'll start to rethink my view on "Social Justice" when we apply the concept to criminal justice .

[Edited on 5-2-2010 by oldlady]

JESSE - 5-2-2010 at 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Mexico keeps the border crossing almost pain free for the U.S. BECAUSE we are a BIG source of income to Mexico... or used to be, anyway.

While there are many good, legal Mexicans that benefit the United States businesses... there are maybe 20 million illegals that are a drain on our society, medical services, etc. and take jobs from Americans.

Mexico doesn't allow Americans to work in Mexico, unless you have a sponsor and can prove that you have skills not available at that location. Mexico puts Mexicans first (good for them)! The counrty has an obligation to its citizens... too bad America doesn't do what Mexico does in that respect!


Your killing yourself, i no longer have any respect for you, and i am not the only Mexican in this board that thinks the same.

Mexicorn - 5-2-2010 at 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Mexico keeps the border crossing almost pain free for the U.S. BECAUSE we are a BIG source of income to Mexico... or used to be, anyway.

While there are many good, legal Mexicans that benefit the United States businesses... there are maybe 20 million illegals that are a drain on our society, medical services, etc. and take jobs from Americans.

Mexico doesn't allow Americans to work in Mexico, unless you have a sponsor and can prove that you have skills not available at that location. Mexico puts Mexicans first (good for them)! The counrty has an obligation to its citizens... too bad America doesn't do what Mexico does in that respect!


Your killing yourself, i no longer have any respect for you, and i am not the only Mexican in this board that thinks the same.






I'm with Jess. I've lost total respect for your opinions. I hope we can continue to be Nomads friends-

Please review:

http://mexfiles.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/arizona-N-zi-sig...

Copied from word press .com

[Edited on 5-2-2010 by Mexicorn]

David K - 5-2-2010 at 12:29 PM

Interesting... liberals can post all their outrageous, anti-American opinions here on Nomad, and when conservatives offer any return of same, we get 'hate' back.

Is there a problem with wanting LEGAL Mexican visitors in the U.S. but not those that come here illegally and stay to use our social services???

How tolerant is Mexico to any Americans who commit illegal activities there?
Just how long could a group of shouting Americans march down a street in La Paz with big American flags last??? That happens up here... or doesn't your news show you the liberties Mexicans have in America?

Jesse, why do you let politics get in the way of friendships... pretty sad amigo?

Liberals are supposed to be 'open minded'... LOL. Just the opposite, they do whatever they can to put down and shut up any opposition.

Cypress - 5-2-2010 at 12:34 PM

Yea, liberals are masters of the "cheap shot", and cry fowl when you call 'em on it. :lol:

Mexicorn - 5-2-2010 at 01:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Interesting... liberals can post all their outrageous, anti-American opinions here on Nomad, and when conservatives offer any return of same, we get 'hate' back.

Is there a problem with wanting LEGAL Mexican visitors in the U.S. but not those that come here illegally and stay to use our social services???

How tolerant is Mexico to any Americans who commit illegal activities there?
Just how long could a group of shouting Americans march down a street in La Paz with big American flags last??? That happens up here... or doesn't your news show you the liberties Mexicans have in America?

Jesse, why do you let politics get in the way of friendships... pretty sad amigo?

Liberals are supposed to be 'open minded'... LOL. Just the opposite, they do whatever they can to put down and shut up any opposition.



David K, you are the one spewing anti American Opinions. Since when was Racism an American Value?
You and others speak of how Mexicans come to the United States to take advantage of Servics drop baby's like rabbits and steal good anglo American Jobs. Yes my friend YOU ARE THE ONE THATS SPEWING ANTI AMERICAN SENTEMENTS.
For a law enforcement Officer being given the authoriy to stop and detain an individual based on thier skin color is wrong. And it's not my liberal burro that is of this single opinion. So why dont you rethink your Rodger hedgec-ck (Crook) and Rush Limbaugh (Presciption medication Junkie) talking points and come and see me some time Mr. Ultra Platinum Nomad Conservatitive.
Maybe you should strap on your ol' six shooter and jump in your SUV and join the other racisists sucking on a 12 pack of Coors patroling the Arizona desert rounding up those that are trying to make a better life for themselves and thier families.
What a proud hero you will be to future generations of Americans and your race if you do that!

mtgoat666 - 5-2-2010 at 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
While there are many good, legal Mexicans that benefit the United States businesses... there are maybe 20 million illegals that are a drain on our society, medical services, etc. and take jobs from Americans.


dk:
Given that there are only 12M to 20M undocumented immigrants in the US (consensus estimate is 12M), you just said that all of the undocumented mexicans are "a drain on our society..."

Have I said this before? You are an *ss

[Edited on 5-2-2010 by mtgoat666]

Mexicorn - 5-2-2010 at 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
While there are many good, legal Mexicans that benefit the United States businesses... there are maybe 20 million illegals that are a drain on our society, medical services, etc. and take jobs from Americans.


dk:
Given that there are only 12M to 20M undocumented immigrants in the US (consensus estimate is 12M), you just said that all of the undocumented mexicans are "a drain to our society..."

Have I said this before? You are an *ss


I was just wondering these 20 mil do they pay taxes?
If so how do they file a tax return?
Where does all that money go?

mtgoat666 - 5-2-2010 at 01:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
While there are many good, legal Mexicans that benefit the United States businesses... there are maybe 20 million illegals that are a drain on our society, medical services, etc. and take jobs from Americans.


dk:
Given that there are only 12M to 20M undocumented immigrants in the US (consensus estimate is 12M), you just said that all of the undocumented mexicans are "a drain to our society..."

Have I said this before? You are an *ss


I was just wondering these 20 mil do they pay taxes?
If so how do they file a tax return?
Where does all that money go?


Those 20M pay taxes, rarely take advantage of social services (most are too scared of getting caught doing so), and work hard for low wages so gringos can enjoy high standard of living.
I think the "illegals" probably contribute so much to society that their expense on society is a wash.

Mexicorn - 5-2-2010 at 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
While there are many good, legal Mexicans that benefit the United States businesses... there are maybe 20 million illegals that are a drain on our society, medical services, etc. and take jobs from Americans.


dk:
Given that there are only 12M to 20M undocumented immigrants in the US (consensus estimate is 12M), you just said that all of the undocumented mexicans are "a drain to our society..."

Have I said this before? You are an *ss


I was just wondering these 20 mil do they pay taxes?
If so how do they file a tax return?
Where does all that money go?


Those 20M pay taxes, rarely take advantage of social services (most are too scared of getting caught doing so), and work hard for low wages so gringos can enjoy high standard of living.
I think the "illegals" probably contribute so much to society that their expense on society is a wash.



Well Geez Goat after reading everything captain mike and David K have been writing I just had been convinced that the ER waiting rooms across the USA were just jammed packed with Mexicans who had freshly snuck across the border waiting ten deep to have anchor babies. Furthermore, let us not forget those running in for servcies due to a case of the sniffiles.
It's gotta be true they heard it on Rick Roberts in the morning!

capt. mike - 5-2-2010 at 01:21 PM

Barney Fwank :lol::lol::lol:

thx, that was phunnie....almost made it worth while re visiting this sorry a$$ thread...

Dwain the tub...i'm dwowning....
- Barney Fwank....a man who prefers...well, everyone has their preferences...:lol::lol:

JESSE - 5-2-2010 at 01:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Interesting... liberals can post all their outrageous, anti-American opinions here on Nomad, and when conservatives offer any return of same, we get 'hate' back.

Is there a problem with wanting LEGAL Mexican visitors in the U.S. but not those that come here illegally and stay to use our social services???

How tolerant is Mexico to any Americans who commit illegal activities there?
Just how long could a group of shouting Americans march down a street in La Paz with big American flags last??? That happens up here... or doesn't your news show you the liberties Mexicans have in America?

Jesse, why do you let politics get in the way of friendships... pretty sad amigo?

Liberals are supposed to be 'open minded'... LOL. Just the opposite, they do whatever they can to put down and shut up any opposition.


1.-I am not a liberal.

2.-For years i have ignored very insulting things said about Mexico or Mexicans by some people on this board, your claim that only "liberals" post outrageous things here is a lie.

3.-As far as i know, no Mexican has ever posted antiamerican opinions here. It wouldn't be proper to do that in a board where americans make up 90+ percent of the members. But on the contrary, theres a well known community of Mexico and Mexicans bashers here. I don't like it, its not supposed to happen in a Baja board, but i accept it as a right of everyone.

4.-LISTEN!!!! NOBODY IS AGAINST THE US ENFORCING ITS LAWS!!! I have said it over and over again. I am one of a very small number of Mexicans that believes the borders should be closed, and that the Mexican goverment should be held accountable. You can create any law that you want AS LONG AS IT TARGETS ONLY ILLEGALS, and not law abiding people. I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU KEEP REPEATING something that i have already explained many times.

5.-As far as illegals using your social services, then DON'T HIRE THEM when your economy is good so you don't start crying when its bad. You can't have it both ways, either never accept them or accepted for good. But don't be a hypocrite and love them when its good, only to hate them when its bad.

6.-I don't support or like Mexicans marching in the US with Mexican flags, i think that's plain wrong. If you don't like it, do what ever you have t do to stop it, i am for it.

Check Your Numbers

Bajahowodd - 5-2-2010 at 01:28 PM

"The illegal immigrant population of the United States in 2008 was estimated by the Center for Immigration Studies to be about 11 million people, down from 12.5 million people in 2007.[2] According to a Pew Hispanic Center report, in 2005, 57% of illegal immigrants were from Mexico; 24% were from other Latin American countries, primarily from Central America;[3] 9% were from Asia; 6% were from Europe; and 4% were from the rest of the world."

It is a safe bet that the current numbers are even lower owing to the increased border security and mostly to the economy. In any event, just using the 2008 number, Mexican illegals amount to 6.27 million. People throw around numbers like 20 million just to inflame.

mtgoat666 - 5-2-2010 at 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
6.-I don't support or like Mexicans marching in the US with Mexican flags, i think that's plain wrong. If you don't like it, do what ever you have t do to stop it, i am for it.


jesse,
no problem in US for people to march with their ethnic flags. every immigrant does it, irish, english, rusian, swiss, french, mexican, etc.

you will find irish americans in US that will make stupid comments about how bad it is for mexican americans to march with mexican flags, then turn around and themselves march in st pats day parade with irish flags.

i say all immigrants to US should beat their chest and shout out their ethnic pride! (except for the N-zi Germans like Capt Cracker and DK :lol::lol:)

Mexicorn - 5-2-2010 at 01:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
6.-I don't support or like Mexicans marching in the US with Mexican flags, i think that's plain wrong. If you don't like it, do what ever you have t do to stop it, i am for it.


jesse,
no problem in US for people to march with their ethnic flags. every immigrant does it, irish, english, rusian, swiss, french, mexican, etc.

you will find irish americans in US that will make stupid comments about how bad it is for mexican americans to march with mexican flags, then turn around and themselves march in st pats day parade with irish flags.

i say all immigrants to US should beat their chest and shout out their ethnic pride! (except for the N-zi Germans like Capt Cracker and DK :lol::lol:)


Dont make me revert to my Hogans heros Greman!
Sergeant Schultz taught me about every word I know.
Ya Voll! LOL your killing me :lol::lol::lol:

oxxo - 5-2-2010 at 01:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Interesting... liberals can post all their outrageous, anti-American opinions here on Nomad, and when conservatives offer any return of same, we get 'hate' back.


THIS STATEMENT is the classic case of PROJECTION!:lol::lol::lol:

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Where is the administration on their duty to the safety and welfair of the people of Arizona...? Why on the side of the criminals and law breakers, of course! Shame, shame, shame...


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
We see liberals today as being power hungry, and only interested in gaining votes of special interest groups by promissing things to them at the expense of hurting others... Like taking the side of the law breakers over the citizens here.


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
They may word the bill in 3rd grade terminology so you on the left might understand it, however! :rolleyes:


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
He won't be happy until we all address each other as "comrade"!


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Oh, I do work (and pay taxes)... just a whole lot less since the Democrats took control of congress!


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Thanks Harry Reed and Nancy Palosi... a couple of #@!%*


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
there are maybe 20 million illegals that are a drain on our society, medical services, etc. and take jobs from Americans.


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Tax rate reductions come from Republicans who empower the people... Tax hikes come friom Democrats who empower the government.


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Liberals are supposed to be 'open minded'... LOL. Just the opposite, they do whatever they can to put down and shut up any opposition.

Bajaboy - 5-2-2010 at 01:45 PM

Jesse-

Honest question here.....How do Mexicans (based on your knowledge) feel about illegal immigration into Mexico? From what I've read and seen on news shows, there are many human rights violations. Is there any truth to this? If so, is there any sort of protest from the people?

I only ask because from my position there seems to be a great deal of hypocrisy coming out of Mexico. Again, I said appears to be as I do not know the facts...only what I hear and read in the news...and we all know that does not mean much.

comitan - 5-2-2010 at 01:51 PM

Oxxo

You did so good, but the tax deduction quotes should have been together.:o:o

DENNIS - 5-2-2010 at 02:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
4.-LISTEN!!!! NOBODY IS AGAINST THE US ENFORCING ITS LAWS!!!


I believe that applys to you, Jesse, but outside of that, you couldn't be more wrong.

Cypress - 5-2-2010 at 02:45 PM

DENNIS, You're dealing with some hard core lberals. Gives a bad taste to the mouth. Can spit 'em out when you get a chance.:yes:

DENNIS - 5-2-2010 at 03:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
DENNIS, You're dealing with some hard core lberals. Gives a bad taste to the mouth. Can spit 'em out when you get a chance.:yes:



Gawwwwdammmm....this whole debate has been hard to figure out.
Usually the Mexicans down here make no effort to hide their disgust and revulsion for what they call a Pocho....one of Mexican decent who was born in the USA and is without a national link to the mother land. They are truly reviled, so much that when they come here to party and carry on about their imagined link to Mexico, "Mi Tierra", as they continually say, the locals call them "Men without a country" for their efforts to abandon their true country, the US, and adopt Mexico as their blood country.

But, this seems to have changed. Those Pochos are all of a sudden the heartfelt concern of the Mexicans and they think it a terrible thing, even unconstitutional that their beloved brother, the Pocho, would be submitted to having someone ask for his ID.

Is it just me? This is confusing.

Cypress - 5-2-2010 at 03:51 PM

It's not just you. And yes, it is confusing. But always remember a liberal is a liberal. they're a "cheap shot" bunch of dirt bags.

comitan - 5-2-2010 at 04:07 PM

Cypress

Just remember we are in the majority at the moment, that's a lot of dirt bags.

rts551 - 5-2-2010 at 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
It's not just you. And yes, it is confusing. But always remember a liberal is a liberal. they're a "cheap shot" bunch of dirt bags.


Just can't stand it when you are confused, can you Cypress. That's OK you have some company,

Barry A. - 5-2-2010 at 04:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
Cypress

Just remember we are in the majority at the moment, that's a lot of dirt bags.


---true, and it is scary!!!!! Heaven (or the Force) help us!!!! :lol:

Barry

Cypress - 5-2-2010 at 04:19 PM

Confused? Focused is more decriptive of my frame of mind. I'll vote and you can....:lol:

rts551 - 5-2-2010 at 04:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Confused? Focused is more decriptive of my frame of mind. I'll vote and you can....:lol:


You are the one who said you were confused. or did you forget already...


We did vote. and the change is happinin. Thanks for the previous 8 years that drove that vote!

comitan - 5-2-2010 at 04:33 PM

Barry

Shades of Bush!!!!!!!!!!!:fire:

capt. mike - 5-2-2010 at 04:39 PM

huh?? N-zi?? oh....puleeeeze...
i am a kraut yes... But i think DK is a norweigan - or maybe Swede - something anyway where you wear a viking hat, drink beer and eat pickled fish.:lol::lol::lol:
quick - where's the freshmints...tic tac??!!

wessongroup - 5-2-2010 at 04:47 PM

Our Southwest Border In the last 23 years, since the 1986, Reagan, one-time amnesty, over 27 million illegals have been apprehended, as they crossed the border into our United States.

UNITED STATES BORDER APPREHENSIONS (Source DHS/CBP)

1987 1,190,488
1988 1,008,145
1989 954,243
1990 1,169,939
1991 1,197,875
1992 1,258,482
1993 1,327,259
1994 1,094,717
1995 1,394,554
1996 1,649,986
1997 1,412,953
1998 1,555,776
1999 1,579,010
2000 1,676,438
2001 1,266,213
2002 955,310
2003 931,557
2004 1,160,395
2005 1,189,075
2006 1,089,902
2007 876,704
2008 723,825
2009 556,041

Would add "Center for Immigration Studies" numbers would have to be suspect.. as the organization is a "think tank" that is fundamentally pro immigration

The number above can be said to be suspect also, however I find the numbers reflective of what is happening based on numerous other reporting agency's.

Would add, that the decease which is seen, is more a function of 9/11/2001 than the economic impact until around 2007

[Edited on 5-2-2010 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 5-2-2010 by wessongroup]

Barry A. - 5-2-2010 at 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
Barry

Shades of Bush!!!!!!!!!!!:fire:


Yes, right on. There ALL scary in Washington DC with a few exceptions!!! :o

Barry

Sharksbaja - 5-2-2010 at 06:02 PM

PLEASE PUT YOUR LITTLE GREEN MONSTERS AWAY!

Yet another arrow in the heart of many Nomads.

Today the prize goes to -------- for his wisdom and collective reasoning and for fomenting more hatred betwixt the participants of this forum.


Does Civil War ring a bell. How plucking pathetic and non-patriotic.

What's the new buzzword these days? Just might be "hate thy neighbor" Tooo sad.

This Baja political forum is not much fun to witness sometimes.


Die baby die!!!! (this non-productive and destructive thread)

JMHO, Corky

JESSE - 5-2-2010 at 06:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Jesse-

Honest question here.....How do Mexicans (based on your knowledge) feel about illegal immigration into Mexico? From what I've read and seen on news shows, there are many human rights violations. Is there any truth to this? If so, is there any sort of protest from the people?

I only ask because from my position there seems to be a great deal of hypocrisy coming out of Mexico. Again, I said appears to be as I do not know the facts...only what I hear and read in the news...and we all know that does not mean much.


My experience is that we are way too good with illegal immigrants, here in La Paz they are all over the place, Colombians, Argentinians, Cubans, Chileans, Italians, French, and off course Americans and Canadians. The Mexican goverment almost always ends up giving them work visas for jobs or businesses that a Mexican can do. I have heard the situation with immigrants from central mexico is different, but i personally have not experience any of it.

In the US, illegals mostly go for jobs americans don't want to do, if anyone denies that, they are liying. Here is the opossite, they come and take good jobs that Mexicans want and need, and we give them visas.

So like i said, at least up north, we don't get to see any of the bad treatment many say exist up north.

toneart - 5-2-2010 at 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sharksbaja
PLEASE PUT YOUR LITTLE GREEN MONSTERS AWAY!

Yet another arrow in the heart of many Nomads.

Today the prize goes to -------- for his wisdom and collective reasoning and for fomenting more hatred betwixt the participants of this forum.


Does Civil War ring a bell. How plucking pathetic and non-patriotic.

What's the new buzzword these days? Just might be "hate thy neighbor" Tooo sad.

This Baja political forum is not much fun to witness sometimes.


Die baby die!!!! (this non-productive and destructive thread)

JMHO, Corky


I agree, Corky! Some here are really exposing their no class underbellies. They are getting nastier and nastier. Glad to know who they are and how they think. Hope to never meet any of them. :barf:

Hang in there Jesse! I understand what you are saying.

Keep Stirring the Pot

MrBillM - 5-2-2010 at 07:13 PM

The Biggest thing we have to fear is that the heated feelings will die down.

Keep the Eyes on the November Prize.

Bajaboy - 5-2-2010 at 07:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JESSE
Quote:
Originally posted by Bajaboy
Jesse-

Honest question here.....How do Mexicans (based on your knowledge) feel about illegal immigration into Mexico? From what I've read and seen on news shows, there are many human rights violations. Is there any truth to this? If so, is there any sort of protest from the people?

I only ask because from my position there seems to be a great deal of hypocrisy coming out of Mexico. Again, I said appears to be as I do not know the facts...only what I hear and read in the news...and we all know that does not mean much.


My experience is that we are way too good with illegal immigrants, here in La Paz they are all over the place, Colombians, Argentinians, Cubans, Chileans, Italians, French, and off course Americans and Canadians. The Mexican goverment almost always ends up giving them work visas for jobs or businesses that a Mexican can do. I have heard the situation with immigrants from central mexico is different, but i personally have not experience any of it.

In the US, illegals mostly go for jobs americans don't want to do, if anyone denies that, they are liying. Here is the opossite, they come and take good jobs that Mexicans want and need, and we give them visas.

So like i said, at least up north, we don't get to see any of the bad treatment many say exist up north.



Thanks for input. I know in San Diego there are many legals here in construction that might disagree with you about the jobs. And there are many in the hospitality business that would argue that illegals keeps the wages down...which I would agree they do. But, I am not an expert beyond that.

Dave - 5-2-2010 at 09:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
While there are many good, legal Mexicans that benefit the United States businesses... there are maybe 20 million illegals that are a drain on our society, medical services, etc. and take jobs from Americans.


I would argue that the reason illegals are a drain is because most don't avail themselves of social services. When families don't get proper medical care, or educate their children they become a permanent underclass and wind up populating our prisons.

And what jobs? In California the bottom barrel jobs pay, with burden, $10 per hour. Unskilled Americans don't work them because why? :rolleyes: The only jobs illegals take are the ones they are given.


Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Mexico doesn't allow Americans to work in Mexico, unless you have a sponsor and can prove that you have skills not available at that location. Mexico puts Mexicans first (good for them)! The counrty has an obligation to its citizens... too bad America doesn't do what Mexico does in that respect!


Don't kid yourself. Migra is very lax in enforcing the laws. There's not a job a gringo can't get hired for if he's a mind to. And Mexico puts it's oligarchs first...it's people last.

Bottom line is that our lazy, over-privileged youth is what has become a burden...Not immigrants. Legal or otherwise.

Mexicorn - 5-2-2010 at 09:02 PM

Good point

Bajaboy - 5-2-2010 at 09:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Good point


Thanks:!:

JESSE - 5-3-2010 at 01:38 AM

If theres a demand, the workers will find a way, its as simple as that.

k-rico - 5-3-2010 at 04:57 AM

I just got back from a 3 week Baja trip and wrote a couple of posts (which JESSE replied to above) that I subsequently deleted after reading the first half of this thread because my points had been already discussed. One point that I didn't see discussed follows.

Perhaps a year ago I saw on a local San Diego newscast a city official saying he didn't want San Diego police enforcing federal immigration laws because by doing so they would lose the trust of the Mexican population, and that would be detrimental to the performance of their job.

For example, let's say that there is a serial rapist or child molester terrorizing a Mexican neighborhood. If the people were afraid of getting deported they wouldn't come forward to report the crimes or present evidence/information they may have. If, on the other hand, they knew that San Diego cops would not ask about citizenship, they would be more likely to participate in the apprehension of criminal and have a generally better relationship with the cops on the beat.

I thought it was a good point.

Think about it. The nice hardworking Mexican family down the street. Dad has been here illegally for 10 years working construction jobs, the rest of the family is legal. Are they now targets for criminals? If they call the police Dad will be arrested/deported. Probably best to not report the child molestation.



[Edited on 5-3-2010 by k-rico]

elgatoloco - 5-3-2010 at 07:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Wait until all citizens have to start carrying a National ID card, as Obama would like to have happen:fire::fire:


I see you agree with the ACLU. Good for you. Have you sent in your membership fees?

elgatoloco - 5-3-2010 at 07:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Wait until all citizens have to start carrying a National ID card, as Obama would like to have happen:fire::fire:


He won't be happy until we all address each other as "comrade"!


From Beck's lips to your ears?

DK, do you also believe your president is not an American citizen?

I doubt I can ever take anything you say about politics seriuosly again.

Viva Baja!

tripledigitken - 5-3-2010 at 08:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Bottom line is that our lazy, over-privileged youth is what has become a burden...Not immigrants. Legal or otherwise.


I honestly don't know if that is widely true or not. The kids I am around are pretty industrious.

But the topic brought up an observation though that some may not be aware of.

In the 1970's in southern california if you didn't go to college there were well paying jobs available in construction. I knew friends that were carpenters that worked in housing tracts. In driving through these tracts you would see the dog in the pickup and a boom box playing music. Anyone familar will know what I'm talking about.

About 3 years ago when housing was booming here I had occassion to visit a few tracts again. No more surfer carpenters, no dogs, (and now for safety reasons no more boom boxes). The labor force was overwhelmingly mexican.

Would american kids take those jobs, I can't say.

Ken

oxxo - 5-3-2010 at 08:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tripledigitken
About 3 years ago when housing was booming here I had occassion to visit a few tracts again. No more surfer carpenters, no dogs, (and now for safety reasons no more boom boxes). The labor force was overwhelmingly mexican.

Would american kids take those jobs, I can't say.


I have been working in the construction industry for 40 years now.

What really happened is that contractors reduced the pay scale years ago in order to build cheaper houses since labor was about 50% of the construction cost. American youth said I'm not going to work for "only" $25 per hour! Mexicans said. "we will."

That's the American system, Capitalism at its best and worst, Supply and Demand. It is what it is.

tripledigitken - 5-3-2010 at 08:54 AM

I would agree that Mexicans will work for a lower wage than the local work force. That is precisely the point that many are making isn't it? With regards to the component costs of housing, the builders profit in good times is a larger share than the labor cost. Builders will do whatever is necessary to reduce the costs of construction. Supply and demand will dictate what the labor costs are. More people available to work the lower the labor cost. (From what I understand framing and drywall is done piece meal, how that relates to an hourly cost I don't know). I too have been in the construction industry for 40 years, (heavy civil not housing).

The fact is that there is a whole class of americans filling $10-$15hr jobs. Auto parts stores, home improvement retail, mechanics, etc. There are many american kids that would love to work for $25/hr. At this time all ages and skill levels of workers would be tempted by a $25hr job. But that is another topic.

Ken

[Edited on 5-3-2010 by tripledigitken]

David K - 5-3-2010 at 09:00 AM

I would love a $25/ hr. job and so would any of our kids... Where do people get these numbers at? San Diego is an expensive place to live, yet the pay here is the same or less than other places... A 2 b/r apartment is about $1000 or more, a modest 3 b/r house rents for $2,000 or more... and the pay for skilled labor is less than $20/ hr.

capt. mike - 5-3-2010 at 09:42 AM

"I doubt I can ever take anything you say about politics seriuosly again."

DK - i think Matt only mentioned not taking you seriously over political issues - that doesn't mean he isn't a nomad friend.

let it blow off your back - i take NOTHING seriously here - its pure fun and entertainment.
i cannot believe this thread lasted so long as it is nada to do with baja.:lol::lol:

stand by all - Sheriff Jose the notorious is about to announce on the governorship.... wow!!!!!!! 76 and he still wants to work.
who's watching the America the Story of US show on Hist ch?
those were great men!! just like Sheriff jose!!:lol::lol::lol:

durrelllrobert - 5-3-2010 at 10:22 AM

Quote:
DK, do you also believe your president is not an American citizen?
Viva Baja!

maybe a Mexican citizen:?::?:

mtgoat666 - 5-3-2010 at 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
It is so sad when people are not free to speak their ideas and interact without the slams and negative comments.

It is also so sad that people put politics ahead of friendships... Matt, I don't care if you like Obama or not, he won and that's it. For how many years did we read the hate Bush comments here, yet I wouldn't let that get in the way of a good Baja time by saying things like you did above, to you or anyone who is a Democrat? I have had Democrat friends and girlfriends and I can keep politics seperate from friendships.

Under Bush we were united as a people to save America... His popularity was so great, it was only a matter of time before the Democrats had to change that, lest they never get in charge again. It was (afterall) the lack of leadership under Clinton that allowed the terrorists to become so brazen. So, even though Congress was in the Democrats hands the last 2 years of the Bush presidency, and congress controls the budget, Bush got the blame for the bad economy (which was booming before the change in congress).

So now, the Democrats have it all... and we have never been more DIVIDED as a people... Lies, lies, lies and government takeovers... It is all so wrong and so un-American.

Come on Nomads, we all have our own views... but that shouldn't take away of our mutual love for Baja. This is supposed to be a fun place or a learning place... Vent, say your views, but do it without attacking others... attack the subject.


Saint David,
I am glad you have come here to martyr yourself in the cause of fighting back against the EVIL LIBERALS that so ruthlessly trample on your right to free speech and are DESTROYING America. Your saintly deeds will be rewarded with 40 virgins in heaven. You will like heaven, they only allow in LEGAL immigrants :lol::lol:

Mexicorn - 5-3-2010 at 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by David K
It is so sad when people are not free to speak their ideas and interact without the slams and negative comments.

It is also so sad that people put politics ahead of friendships... Matt, I don't care if you like Obama or not, he won and that's it. For how many years did we read the hate Bush comments here, yet I wouldn't let that get in the way of a good Baja time by saying things like you did above, to you or anyone who is a Democrat? I have had Democrat friends and girlfriends and I can keep politics seperate from friendships.

Under Bush we were united as a people to save America... His popularity was so great, it was only a matter of time before the Democrats had to change that, lest they never get in charge again. It was (afterall) the lack of leadership under Clinton that allowed the terrorists to become so brazen. So, even though Congress was in the Democrats hands the last 2 years of the Bush presidency, and congress controls the budget, Bush got the blame for the bad economy (which was booming before the change in congress).

So now, the Democrats have it all... and we have never been more DIVIDED as a people... Lies, lies, lies and government takeovers... It is all so wrong and so un-American.

Come on Nomads, we all have our own views... but that shouldn't take away of our mutual love for Baja. This is supposed to be a fun place or a learning place... Vent, say your views, but do it without attacking others... attack the subject.


Saint David,
I am glad you have come here to martyr yourself in the cause of fighting back against the EVIL LIBERALS that so ruthlessly trample on your right to free speech and are DESTROYING America. Your saintly deeds will be rewarded with 40 virgins in heaven. You will like heaven, they only allow in LEGAL immigrants :lol::lol:


WAY TO GO GOAT !!!!
That had me rolling on the ground in laughter!!!
Saint David!!!LOL!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Hey just a quick second thought Comrads!
Maybe through our Joint efforts we could lobby the Arizona Minute Men into erecting a Statue of Dave and the captain and put it right on the border near Yuma. Both full size in bronze right arm extended pointing thier index fingers in a southern direction. Yea that's the ticket... and maybe a small plaque at the base that says Mexicans go home!!

[Edited on 5-3-2010 by Mexicorn]

Some Good News

MrBillM - 5-3-2010 at 10:47 AM

Santa Cruz Immigrant Rally turns to Riot. Great Video.

Looking forward to more.

Keeping the pot Stirred.

Until November.

Cypress - 5-3-2010 at 11:04 AM

There's really no point in discussing current issues with '60's era liberals. They're still fighting battles won, with a lot of help from current conservatives, 50 years ago. The song "Glory Days" comes to mind. Their idea of a debate consists of hurling insults. Best to keep it on the light side and not venture past local weather conditions.:biggrin: It'll keep 'em content and you won't, out of courtesy, be subjected to nonsense.:D

wessongroup - 5-3-2010 at 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
Quote:
Originally posted by tripledigitken
About 3 years ago when housing was booming here I had occasion to visit a few tracts again. No more surfer carpenters, no dogs, (and now for safety reasons no more boom boxes). The labor force was overwhelmingly mexican.

Would american kids take those jobs, I can't say.


I have been working in the construction industry for 40 years now.

What really happened is that contractors reduced the pay scale years ago in order to build cheaper houses since labor was about 50% of the construction cost. American youth said I'm not going to work for "only" $25 per hour! Mexicans said. "we will."

That's the American system, Capitalism at its best and worst, Supply and Demand. It is what it is.


That $25/hr came through hard fought UNION efforts over many, many, years.. as did many other "benefits'" enjoyed by workers today, legal and illegal..

Some folks paid some heavy dues.. to get the working conditions up... not blaming illegals.. everyone wants to work, and most Business take advantage of the working stiff .. that is the way it is.. always has, and always will..

Be they be poor Irish, German, Chinese or Mexican .... it is how the game is played... the Golden Rule.. He who has the gold rules...

The working man.. it's a tough row to hoe...

[Edited on 5-3-2010 by wessongroup]

elgatoloco - 5-3-2010 at 11:34 AM

DK, I apologize for making the assumption that you believe that Obama is not an American citizen. That was wrong for me to do that.

Unfortunately politics has become a blood sport for some on the fringes in this country and for me something I no longer care to discuss with most people, kind of like religion and whatever else goes on in the privacy of one's own home. It's personal.

The comment you made about Obama wanting us all to call each other "comrades" was probably made in jest, no? A baseless kneejerk comment like that does make it hard to objectively absorb whatever else is said and that is why I responded the way I did.

There are many things said here that I don't agree with and many opinions on some subjects I refuse to take seriously. As Mike said it's just the internet, after all.

The immigration situation is one of many in this country that is very complicated and made more so by the total lack of action by anyone in Washington for decades. Like many other problems we face it will not be an easy fix. I think the Arizona law is overreaching and will be watered down or thrown out completely. If it helps jump start discussion about serious immigration reform in DC that would be a good thing.

Obama is doing what he can with the pile of crap he stepped in to on January 20th. He is upsetting a lot of folks on the far left and the far right in the process but.......... he is governing from the middle as much as possible which is what I predicted and hoped for all along (you can look it up). John McCain lost any hope of holding onto my support when he sold out and made the single worst decision in any election ever, but that is another subject and I don't want to highjack this very informative thread which will hopefully be heading for the off topic black hole soon.

Tecate is much more drinkable then Pacifco ever was and I can prove it!

Don't sweat the small stuff.:cool:

Mexicorn - 5-3-2010 at 11:40 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by durrelllrobert
DK, do you also believe your president is not an American citizen?
Viva Baja!

maybe a Mexican citizen:?::?:







In all honesty It does not get more Racist than this!

Cypress - 5-3-2010 at 11:46 AM

Mexicon, How's the weather?:D

Mexicorn - 5-3-2010 at 12:10 PM

Your right Weathers great going outside to listen to the birds sing I'm done with this-

Cypress - 5-3-2010 at 12:21 PM

Mexicon, I'll drink to that. Good luck and good will.:yes:

monoloco - 5-3-2010 at 12:27 PM

I don't know why this has to be a liberal vs. conservative issue. I don't believe anyone thinks that illegal immigration is a good thing. The question is should we deal with it in scattered and reactionary ways or do we try to come up with logical and effective reform that works for businesses that need imported labor and is fair and streamlined for foreign workers. It seems like both political parties and certain media outlets would rather this be a polarizing issue to gain political advantage or to gain market share. This is something that could have been dealt with long ago if it hadn't been more expedient to use the issue as a political football.
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