BajaNomad - Mark & Olivia; Playa Buenaventura

Mark & Olivia; Playa Buenaventura

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Natalie Ann - 2-17-2012 at 01:15 PM

shees! I feel like I'm on a Sit 'n Spin.

nena

Woooosh - 2-17-2012 at 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lobsterman
Mr Munoz,

Good for you. I hope you put all those crooks both public officials and criminals in jail. I've wanted to have a retirement staging area in Mulege/BOC for the past 25 years. I'm a simple fisherman who loves the type of fishing there, the seclusion and weather. But for the past ten years or so my interest has waned due to the every increasing crime that the public officials allow to happen or are a part of. My good friend Greg lost his place in Coyote a few years back which Pompano is aware of. This board has been covering up these events for their own personal reasons. I do not care for any of them due to their hidden agendas (home sales, businesses, bed & breakfast, etc). They do not want bad news at our expense.

I use this board to gather info to help me plan my retirement. I'm now retired and hoping to once again visit mexico and enjoy the fishing environment I once enjoyed for over 20 years. I've saved quite a bit after 40 years of fulltime employment and would love to spend it in Mulege.

So you have my congratulations for trying to clean up the area with your gloves off. You are making Mexico a better place for the silent majority not the twisted ones with a hidden or criminal agendas. When the smoke clears I'll be one of your first paying customers of your hotel in Buenaventure.
Dennis

Well, that could be the post of the week.
:saint:

mtgoat666 - 2-17-2012 at 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lobsterman
Mr Munoz,

Good for you....

So you have my congratulations for trying to clean up the area with your gloves off. You are making Mexico a better place for the silent majority not the twisted ones with a hidden or criminal agendas. When the smoke clears I'll be one of your first paying customers of your hotel in Buenaventure.
Dennis

i can't determine if your post was sarcasm or serious :?:

mcfez - 2-17-2012 at 02:52 PM

Love it Natalie Ann!

There's really no way for anyone here to make sense out of this topic. He said....she said...legals said...Govt said.......all on hearsay.

Once pass the "violent stand off" call for help..... of the postings ......this post has become a Off Topic material.

Lobsterman is just another Fulano puppet.

Quote:

Originally posted by Natalie Ann
shees! I feel like I'm on a Sit 'n Spin.

nena

[Edited on 2-17-2012 by mcfez]

Skipjack Joe - 2-17-2012 at 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

i can't determine if your post was sarcasm or serious :?:

Judging by the author it's sarcasm. A fake end around.

wessongroup - 2-17-2012 at 03:36 PM

Ya mean it's changed ....

Lobsterman - 2-17-2012 at 03:40 PM

From a happier day (my last time in Mexico).

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/baja-mexico-fishing-reports...

DENNIS - 2-17-2012 at 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lobsterman
From a happier day (my last time in Mexico).

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/baja-mexico-fishing-reports...

Thanks, Big D.....great foto report...as it were..was...something like that.

.

[Edited on 2-17-2012 by DENNIS]

vgabndo - 2-17-2012 at 03:58 PM

XPBRes, I'm so sorry for your loss. We met a while before the overhead picture was taken. You may have seen us in San Nicolas' and invited us to stop. I'll never forget because I don't remember anyone ever enjoying my smoked yellowtail as much as you guys!

Maybe I'm lucky that our very similar (only one lease) situation ended up being stolen by Julio, a storm. It's easier to move on, I think, when there is no point in laying awake imagining retribution. I can't imagine I would be above it, and I would disrespect myself for it. Your pain must be very deep. I hope you heal fast.

BajaNomad - 2-17-2012 at 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by angels4
I was just wondering if there was clarification to a post dated 4/15/2009 at 10:29PM in the Turtle Soup story (Page 3) in which Ramuma53 denied being Senor Rafael Munoz. Ramuma53 called himself Eduardo Villa Arellano.

By page 10 (on 4-18-2009), ramuma53 postings stopped being written in mixed 1st-person and 3rd-person when referring to Rafael... and it was communicated that the individual now posting was Rafael.

All the postings through that point (in that particular thread) by that user were all from the same Tijuana Cablemas account though - none was through a satellite internet provider - with one exception that was posted through a Telcel connection... in which the following was written:

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53

What you know, is where an Internet protocol (IP) is assigned, and it is assigned where it enter the Physical Internet network, when it is dynamic and uploaded to a satellite connection, It goes up the satellite stream in pockets and then down at the Internet Service Provider (ISP) where it is assigned the Dynamic IP, where it enters the physical network; and since my Satellite Service Provider for Buenaventura Hotel is in Tijuana, it is not bizarre you find that. Also, you will find that, if you locate the dynamic IP for my personal computer which is where I am sending this comment from, it will always be in Tijuana. I have a contract for wireless broadband connection with Telcel in Tijuana and that means, that from any place in continental America, it goes through the 3G Cellular networks, all the way to Tijuana and then it enters there to the physical Internet network. So, I may be in any place in the world and as long as I use that connection, the dynamic IP is going to be a Tijuana assigned;

The above statements are inconsistent with this site's activity records however.

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by BajaNomad]

angels4 - 2-17-2012 at 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNomad

Quote:

By page 10 (on 4-18-2009), ramuma53 postings stopped being writing in mixed 1st-person and 3rd-person when referring to Rafael... and it was communicated that the individual now posting was Rafael.

All the postings through that point (in that particular thread) by that user were all from the same Tijuana Cablemas account though - none was through a satellite internet provider - with one exception that was posted through a Telcel connection... in which the following was written:

Quote:

The above statements are inconsistent with this site's activity records however.

Thank you BajaNomad. I was wondering who was who or if the two morphed into one person :?:

I would say it adds to the "credibility" factor of the user. My head is still spinning as to who is telling the truth in this tangled up story. :rolleyes:

But, I wish them all a peaceful resolution. You all have a good weekend :saint:

XPBRes - 2-17-2012 at 09:57 PM

vgabndo,

We remember you and thank you for your sentiment, our wakeless nights are mostly past and are in love with are new home and life.

Baja will always be our 1st love and we will hold on to all the great people and memories.

Burbs - 2-17-2012 at 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XPBRes
vgabndo,

We remember you and thank you for your sentiment, our wakeless nights are mostly past and are in love with are new home and life.

Baja will always be our 1st love and we will hold on to all the great people and memories.

I wish I could say the same.
Un dia mas, buenas noche

Burbs - 2-18-2012 at 11:27 AM

I will address these statements by Munoz that we are a associated with drugs.

Olivia and I do not bring in any drugs of any kind. We are not associated with ANY criminal cartels. We just operate a beach restaurant and offering services to Mexican's, and foreign tourists. We have a beautiful place with a fantastic view. We cater to families, tourists and a few locals who are usually coming or going to Loreto. It is totally ridiculous that we are in any way associated with illegal drugs. Munoz lies about us unloading or using any drugs. Please do not believe a word of what Munoz says. He has a court forum to state his case.

We have had many visits from the military here over the last couple of years. It is usually late at night when they arrive. My dogs awake us when people come, like good dogs should. When I get up there are military, usually Marines checking our place out. This has happened so many times I've lost count. Usually they will say they are here because of a anonymous phone call. SOMEONE is making anonymous phone calls to the military claiming we are unloading drugs. I've gotten so used to it that we now ask if they are here because of a anonymous phone call. It makes us sad to have to get up and see these fine young men being used like this. It is also embarrasing to campers and other tourists on the beach. There should be some kind of check system of who the anonymous callers are because the system can be abused and innocent persons can be set up by unscrupulous enemies. I would wish that the military and judges could take this fact in consideration when deciding ones guilt or innocence.

Other post here are "HOW DO THEY DO IT" insinuating that we do illegal drug business. It is really none of your business and you should be ashamed to make such a post towards Olivia and me. But I will say this. We work hard between the two of us and one employee(Bertha). All of the tips go to Bertha to help her raise her family. We make all of our tax and fee payments on time. We have sold a couple of parcels of land over the years and this has helped us stay in business. Our diesel generators are not used any more. We use small generators and new appliances to make things work at a considerable savings in fuel costs. Our cars and trucks are old but I take care of them and we keep plowing ahead. So when any doubters of how we manage, pass by Buenaventura please understand that we have this place because of hard work and by using our savings. We are simple people that enjoy others and feel proud of where we live and we like to see others enjoy this place in the Baja. We are trying the best we can to keep Buenaventura falling into the hands of the likes of Munoz.

We need your business and support to finish. Please if you have the time visit our little place. This is all we ask!

Sincerely,
Mark and Olivia

drugs

captkw - 2-18-2012 at 11:41 AM

HOLA, as alway's I'm late to the storey,,but I can say as a boater and baja nomad,,why,would any one run (boat) all the way accross the bay to drop off drug,s....makes no sense at all,,sorry,, I would not even consider such a b.s. proposail..my 2 centovo's,,,, K & T :cool:

Pescador - 2-18-2012 at 12:15 PM

Anyone who thinks that the drug runners are going to run half way down the bay and drop off drugs in a tourist area, right by the highway, is already snorting his own bathwater. It is pretty amazing that Munoz has tried the drug thing by implication, planting turtle soup in their restaurant, as well as posting all of the stupid statements in each lawsuit that is filed is a person who has slipped to the bottom of the food chain to try to claim property he has some attachment to.

I know of a person who was nailed for having some turtle meat and he lost everything because it was a clear cut case of possession. In the Buenaventura Turtle Soup Incident, it was obviously clear that there was a plant.

Joke of the Day: You know what you call 5 lawyers in the bottom of Conception Bay. ( A good start)

Santiago - 2-18-2012 at 01:08 PM

IF Mr Munos is correct in the following:
1. Olivia et al. are/were involved with the cartels.
2. The beach was used as an off-loading spot.
3. Mr Munos has been successful in getting this activity stopped.

THEN if follows that Mr Munos would no longer be alive.

Diver - 2-18-2012 at 01:13 PM

Dead me tell no lies ?? :lol:

Skipjack Joe - 2-18-2012 at 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
IF Mr Munos is correct in the following:
1. Olivia et al. are/were involved with the cartels.
2. The beach was used as an off-loading spot.
3. Mr Munos has been successful in getting this activity stopped.

THEN if follows that Mr Munos would no longer be alive.

Good one Santiago. The Socratic investigation, a favotire.

A: Socrates is a man.
B: All men are mortal.
C: All men are Socrates.

latina - 2-18-2012 at 01:17 PM

His arguments defy logic, which is ironic, considering he claims to be a lawyer. I would be interested to know if he is a member of any Mexican Bar Association. I doubt it, give his blatant defiance of any code of ethics...

mtgoat666 - 2-18-2012 at 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
Dead me tell no lies ?? :lol:

every party in this saga tells lies. if mark's, olivia's or rafael's lips are moving, they are likely lying!

mtgoat666 - 2-18-2012 at 01:22 PM

Quote:

if drug running really was occurring, wouldn't mr munoz have been terminated after his first attack against drug smugglers?

Skipjack Joe - 2-18-2012 at 01:46 PM

Mtgoat,

Can you please quote a Mark lie for us here.

Roberto - 2-18-2012 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Mtgoat,

Can you please quote a Mark lie for us here.

Let me ask you this - you buy that the truth is all on one side? Pretty tough to quote specific lies from an internet thread, but it seems all parties are using this board for their own purposes - propaganda. Or not?

For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them.

wessongroup - 2-18-2012 at 02:46 PM

:lol:

Skipjack Joe - 2-18-2012 at 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Mtgoat,

Can you please quote a Mark lie for us here.

I think it's best to just answer the question and deal with one false statement at a time, rather than a blanket statement.

Certainly Mark didn't help his cause with a couple of his posts.

There must be plenty of ammo to chose from. Since I don't understand the situation entirely it would be educational for me to know what the lies were.

DianaT - 2-18-2012 at 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them.

Out of all the pages and posts, that statement seems to make the most sense.

MexicoTed - 2-18-2012 at 03:53 PM

Does anyone know if Sr. Munoz' employees are out of jail? He stated they would be out by noon today.

Diver - 2-18-2012 at 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MexicoTed
Does anyone know if Sr. Munoz' employees are out of jail? He stated they would be out by noon today.

Then it follows that they are still in jail.

Skipjack Joe - 2-18-2012 at 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them.

Out of all the pages and posts, that statement seems to make the most sense.

I can understand that. It was with your encouragement that this thread about Mark and Olivia as victims got hijacked to become a thread of the homeowners as victims.

As I now see it they played a game of risk and lost. And we all feel for their loss but there was always risk involved.

I believe that Pilot Mike (I don't remember his name) has always stated to not get involved in any Mexican land deal that you can't walk away from without taking a complete loss.

Woooosh - 2-18-2012 at 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

For me, I wouldn't trust either party further than I can throw them.

Out of all the pages and posts, that statement seems to make the most sense.

Likely the origin of the Baja Nomad mantra "Never invest more in Mexican real estate than you are willing to walk away from."

latina - 2-18-2012 at 06:03 PM

If the homeowners who originally leased the property from Olivia started making payments to Rafael instead because they believed the deception that he was the new "owner", why didn't any of them or all of them make denuncias against Rafael Muñoz Martinez for abuso de confianza and fraude, or did they?

Roberto - 2-18-2012 at 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Mtgoat,

Can you please quote a Mark lie for us here.

That is certainly a logical approach. However, I just don't believe that it applies in this situation. We are not around the campfire, face-to-face. We don't even know each other, and the website is being used to manipulate our perception of who is wrong and who is right of obvious reasons.

Based on that, I just take what the players in this saga say and try to read between the lines, and what I see makes me want to stay as far as possible from all parties. I have little doubt that I would get screwed no matter which party was in control. Couple that with the fact that the "law" offers little to no protection.

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by Roberto]

XPBRes - 2-18-2012 at 07:39 PM

Latina,
Up until spring of last year there were renters-homeowners still on the beach trying to sort all of this out. There are only 3 of us left who even care about the outcome. We didn’t feel comfortable airing out some of this on a chat board while they still had a chance to work it out.

What I know is that I have a signed lease, was voided by Olivia 2002.

At the same time Munoz shows documents to Roberto & Franca Hotel owners. They find him to be creditable; they share this info with us.

We stall for over a year and then start paying Munoz for rent and some back rent. At this time we are evicted by Olivia and then sued, late 2003.

I am asked by Munoz to use my home for an investigation. I decline and I am evicted, I think this 06-07

During this time there are the same accusations and threats that you have seen posted since and before the turtle thread.

I will state that I am not clear who is in the right. We have seen a lot more documentation from Munoz. At this point both sides are claiming victory in court. After 10 years it is not that clear unless you take a side and then it is crystal clear.

I DO NOT THINK THERE ARE DRUGS BEING RUN FROM THE BEACH
I still have a right to wonder how they do it, as I do with everyone.

Please continue to support that area with your understanding and prayers for its conclusion.

I would be very happy for Mark & Olivia to be able to live out their lives and be successful.

That is what we wanted in the beginning. I guess we just weren't willing to wait, trust and pay for it after the way the 1st 10 years went.

Roberto - 2-18-2012 at 07:57 PM

I can only imagine what it must have been like for you to lose all you had spend time, money, dreams and blood on that beach.

What I do not understand is how, after that history, you are so accepting and non-critical of those who caused this.

Diver - 2-18-2012 at 08:03 PM

As I stated originally; you assumed too much !

Quote:

Originally posted by XPBRes
I DO NOT THINK THERE ARE DRUGS BEING RUN FROM THE BEACH
I still have a right to wonder how they do it, as I do with everyone.

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver

Quote:

Originally posted by Woooosh

I don't know what they were thinking, I only note their actions. That is not an assumption, it is an observation based on their statements.

No, they said they were uncomfortable with these guys staying in their house.

They did not say that they had any knowledge of any drug running by anyone.

You added that part yourself; you made an assumption.
Wherein did you "observe" anything else ?

[Edited on 2-17-2012 by Diver]

Go back and read the posts carefully Diver. XPBres said the PB residents wondered out loud for years where all the money was coming from, not me.

XPBRes - 2-18-2012 at 08:34 PM

Roberto,
I have been negotiating with all parties, starting with the original lease.
We spent a year trying to come to some agreement that Olivia and the homeowners could see as fair.

Then it became 3 parties when Munoz came along. I have had almost everyone in this small group upset with me, the messenger, more than once.

My wife had the hardest time getting over me finally throwing in the towel.

When Munoz turned on me and accused me of siding with Mark & Olivia, for not letting him use the house for a sting operation. Then finding out he had already been in my home with family and friends I knew it was over.

That has now been a lifetime ago and we have made much better decisions since then.

So I guess that was the long version of time, wonderful memories and good people has a way of healing a broken heart.

Forgiveness is also an awesome tool, for good health.

Roberto - 2-18-2012 at 08:43 PM

Forgiveness, and time. You moved on. I hear you. Best of luck in your travels.

Skipjack Joe - 2-18-2012 at 08:57 PM

XPBRs,

What were the points of disagreement between the homeowners and Olivia? Points that kept the agreement from being signed originally.

latina - 2-18-2012 at 09:31 PM

XPBRes et al, don't you see? It is as clear as a bell...you and your neighbours were duped and bullied by Muñoz and his claimed "status" as a "lawyer"...He probably came at you the same relentless way he comes across on this board...with his superiority complex, lack of compassion and "just you wait" attitude...Olivia was the person in control of the lease, not Rafael Muñoz Martinez, and you clearly acknowledged that when you wrote that your lease was "voided by Olivia". Your trust was misplaced, and it fuelled the appetite, greed and confidence of Muñoz and his associates... After that "small" victory there was no turning back for them...In their minds they thought it would all be over in a heartbeat...except they didn't count on Mark & Olivia fighting back the way they have for 10 years..... Hence the constant slander, the set-ups and the anonymous calls to the police...

Woooosh - 2-18-2012 at 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago
OK, here is what I’ve surmised; help me fill in the holes:
1. The world was dark, void and without form.
2. So god set to work and made this little bay.
3. Fast Forward to post-revolution and some Italian guy owns the bay.
4. Munoz ‘buys’ the beach from said Italian guy; and per Wooosh’s guess has good title, the best.
5. Munoz leases all? or part? of beach to a Mexican (Olivia) and her husband/boyfriend Mike.
6. Somebody, and I don’t know who or when, builds a hotel and a restaurant. And when I say ‘build’, I mean who paid for the material and labor and who was expecting to get the benefit of these businesses?
7. Somehow/way, Mike and Olivia have at the very least a signed lease for the restaurant and maybe other parts of the beach.
8. Mike and Olivia sub-lease to others who build houses, these houses are on the opposite side of the hotel from the restaurant/bar. I am led to believe that these sub-leasees THOUGHT they were leasing from the owners of the property but were not.
9. Munoz, who probably is aware of all this, waits until the homes are built and furnished and then contacts the dreamers and tells them to get the f*ck off his property.
10. Sh*t hits the fan, people come after Mike & Olivia and Mike bails.
11. Mark shows up to continue the fight.
12. Olivia files for and gets a beach concession for the area where the café/bar is.
13. Mark and Olivia take over one of the houses as their own; I mean, why not; they’re just sitting there.
14. Olivia (and I am just guessing here) starts doing the Mexican version of ownership per possession and improvement, squatter’s rights and all that. She must have been a little bit successful here given the fear shown by Munoz.
15. Munoz goes apesh*t and starts fighting dirty, or even dirtier.

There is only one access road that serves both restaurant and hotel. This tells me that both were built by the same party with the concept that both buildings were on a single piece of property or lot and therefore no subdivision has taken place unless the person who ended up with the restaurant lot is very stupid as they now would have no guaranteed access. Or they are being stupid like a fox.
Will somebody who actually knows something fill in the blanks to the above timeline? Thanks

These kinds of stories are entertaining, but drive me nucking futs. Do we all just totally toss our common sense when we cross the border?

There is enough blame to go around. This version posted last week is as good as any made this week. I don't have enough new information and I doubt we'll ever see it. That's why I never read the whole "Turtle Soup: thread. Fifty pages of speculation with no conclusion. I feel bad for people like XPBres who lost their baja dream homes. It doesn't really matter which party is right when it is your dream house they are fighting over.

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by Woooosh]

XPBRes - 2-18-2012 at 11:15 PM

Skipjack Joe,
I remember that the ejido asked Olivia to start paying for all the improvements to the property. It was coming up on 10 years and I think their lease had come up for review or renewal. I don’t think Mike had yet paid the ejido for improving the land and that was a condition to his lease with the ejido. Since Mike had left her with very little she only had us and the hotel to make up the difference.

We had leases that stated they would be renewed every 30 years up to 90 years. Again these are signed and stamped by all parties involved, Olivia, ejido and us.

She told us the ejido wanted an amount ? (3o,ooo) And she didn’t have it and we needed to pay it, thus started the negotiations. We tried to help by giving her a bump in the rent but weren’t willing to sign new leases.

For us it had to do with the fact that we had paid to improve our lots. If they did not share that with the ejido, we did not see that as our problem and stood firm. We thought that 7 renters was a decent monthly income for Olivia, she also had the hotel, beach and restaurant.

This is my best memory of the events, it was 10 years ago and old-timers is setting in.

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]

XPBRes - 2-18-2012 at 11:28 PM

Latina,

to me it was a perfect storm scenario.

Mike leaves Olivia and homeowners vulnerable and feuding, along comes Munoz with documents and an offer the Italians couldn't refuse.

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]

Skipjack Joe - 2-18-2012 at 11:38 PM

Thank you XPBres,

Can you now please tell me:

1. What the Munoz offer was.
2. Why you found it more attractive.
3. How Munoz got around the ejido restrictions that you found offensive in the Olivia offer.

If my questions sound naive it's because I don't understand the ownership relationship between Munoz and the ejido.

XPBRes - 2-19-2012 at 12:06 AM

SJ,

I think you need to 1st understand that Mike had made us antagonist with Olivia and the Italians. We understood that kept him with the power to manipulate all parties.

When Mike left we started sharing notes and found they were double dipping the hotel. Then making the Italians think that we were all freeloaders. It took almost a year to get the Italians to see that they were being used. A good example is the generators. Since the Italians were running a legit business they had a lawyer, account and receipts for the generator. We helped pay for the generator, they never knew....etc.

Munoz comes along telling us our options are to side with Olivia, he will sue us and win. Sue him and he will win, or start paying him rent and he will appraise our property and compensate us for the improvements we made to his property.

The ejido wasn’t as much an issue since he had showed us that he had purchased the land.

It is why we tried to stall and see what shook out. A year wasn’t enough.

Which option knowing what you know now would you choose?

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]

Skipjack Joe - 2-19-2012 at 12:50 AM

Yes, I understand your choice.

Munoz showed up with documents that showed complete ownership and since he was not beholding to the ejido he could make a much sweeter offer. So you all went over and leased from him. However, you soon found out that he considered your homes his own property and used them at will, even though you were paying rent. At that point in time you all started severing your ties with him and took your losses.

I guess what bothers me, though, is that if Munoz had not arrived at the scene you still would have all bailed out.

Things get murky after that as to where the blame lies. At least to me.

XPBRes - 2-19-2012 at 01:16 AM

SJ,

I guess we will never know.

I think it would have been easier to see a scenario where the Hotel might have worked with us as we started to become allies. They were the 1st to bail, that changed our leverage.

It is one of the areas that in hind sight I can see Mark’s point of view.

I again have to say this wasn't just one person's decision, multiple people came to the same conclusion to switch sides.

What a mess and no one is innocent!

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]

luv2fish - 2-19-2012 at 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XPBRes
SJ,

I guess we will never know.

I think it would have been easier to see a scenario where the Hotel might have worked with us as we started to become allies. They were the 1st to bail, that changed our leverage.

It is one of the areas that in hind sight I can see Mark’s point of view.

I again have to say this wasn't just one person's decision, multiple people came to the same conclusion to switch sides.

What a mess and no one is innocent!

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]

[Edited on 2-19-2012 by XPBRes]

http://www.rtmark.com/popotlaaustria.html
http://www.icfdn.org/aboutus/inthenews/PDF/08182011.pdf
http://munoz-industries.com/
This guy is all over the net, maybe too much.

Roberto - 2-19-2012 at 09:43 PM

SJ, where are you headed? It doesn't seem to me that you are asking questions to make up your mind, but rather to make a point. You say you understand Munoz showed up with proof of clear title, doesn't that pretty much trump all? Unless, of course you doubt the legitimacy of such.

On the whole I see a tendency on the part of the board to take Mark & Olivia's side in this. From what has been presented so far -- there seems to be no logic to this. Once again this is more proof (if it was needed) that buying real estate in Mexico is a BAD idea for foreigners. Indeed, for Mexicans, as well. The system is just to corrupt, and predictably, there are all sorts of people prepared to take advantage of it. "When you go to war, dig two graves". Is that it?

[Edited on 2-20-2012 by Roberto]

Skipjack Joe - 2-20-2012 at 12:06 AM

I've had time to think about it and have decided that nothing XPBRes has written on this thread has any relevance to it at all.

If Munoz and Marc are brought to trial over charges of assault and battery the information XPBRes has brought forth would be inadmissable. It is irelevant and has nothing to do with the matter.

Somehow, this XPBRes has taken this thread about assault to one of "Who Cares, they're both scoundrels".

Why was this done? I have no idea except out of feelings of anger.

I think the right thing should have been and remains that a separate thread be created for those homeowners who were cheated at Buenaventura. I don't see this as an unimportant "here, there, what's the difference where it's written".

Furthermore, I feel that Marc should not have responded to the accusations with explanations. He should have directed XPBRes to the title of the thread and told him "I'll talk about this on this thread.

Although I don't regret the off topic questions I don't plan to engage in them any longer. I hope that the rest of the board can stay on track and stop speculating which one was worse to the homeowners. I hope that this thread can go back to it's original intent with news of the five arrested individuals.

XPBRes - 2-20-2012 at 01:14 AM

Skipjack Joe,

I was reacting to Mark posting a picture of his new home on Facebook that was attached to this thread. This home was built by my friends, neighbors prior to Marks involvement on this beach. Hell yes I was angry.

I thought I could shed some light on the fact that this interaction between Mark & Munoz has been going on for a long time. I tried to share Information as to why this is happening.

I agree with you that I should have started a new thread. Being a first time poster and that this seems to be the most active and viewed thread since the turtle soup.

I hope that you will forgive me this one indiscretion.

[Edited on 2-20-2012 by XPBRes]

ELINVESTIG8R - 2-20-2012 at 06:11 AM

XPBRes, you have done nothing you need to apologize for! What you brought forth does have relevance! Some people like to pontificate!! Keep on posting at will!

SFandH - 2-20-2012 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by SFandH
Is that right?

Who will ever know. This whole thing is a big can of worms. I quit trying to follow it a long time ago.

You're right, I deleted my post.

can

captkw - 2-20-2012 at 10:41 AM

more like a truck bed of worm's :lol:

K&T

surfer jim - 2-20-2012 at 10:47 AM

I love this topic. 33+ thousand views and 483 replies ... what we need now is some of the other "renters" or "owners" to join in. Who's next? :bounce:

woody with a view - 2-20-2012 at 10:53 AM

:lol:

NEXT !!

captkw - 2-20-2012 at 10:54 AM

ramuma53 - 2-20-2012 at 12:30 PM

Buenaventura employees are still in custody, because they are not in jail, because at this time they have not been charged with any crime, they are just kidnapped by the Estate Government.
Today a Federal Protection Order was granted against the Estate police.
The court appointment is on Friday and they will be out on Friday after the court scheduled time.
It is now clear that through very high organized crime contacts, Olivia reached the Este District attorney and convinced him to invade my property without a court order, on the promise that we had fire weapons and we that we have no legal permits for them, that would justify their actions after the fact and they would become partners at my hotel because my title is false.
Wrong on several points, our weapons are legal and registered by the Army and Federal Police and my title resulted authentic and true.
The Baja South Estate Governor sent a congressman to Mexico City with the allegation that the Federal District Attorney has no business on Baja Justice matters, and he was just smothered by the National Press, because he was wrong on all statements and has no proof of any wrong doing.
It is clear that the Estate District attorney participated in a organized crime plot to illegally acquire my property and let Olivia run it, but they were based on several wrong facts and the plot is coming down with the head of the Estate District attorney.
Los Cabos have an International convention on organized crime in the next few days and the national and international press will eat alive the Estate Governor and Estate District attorney if they do not solve this illegality.
National Press is publishing my statements charging the Este District Attorney with the illegalities committed that are now in the open and in the Federal Police knowledge.
We will not stop until the Estate District Attorney is out of the job and prosecuted together with Olivia and Nark Burbey.
I will be posting the National coverage articles here.

Diver - 2-20-2012 at 12:46 PM

Sure dude,

They will be out last week.
They will be out next week.
Olivia will be in jail.
Olivia will be gone.
Yada, yada, yada ..... so far nothing you have said has come true so I'm curious why you think anyone should believe anything you have to say now ?
.

latina - 2-20-2012 at 01:11 PM

So...Mark & Olivia, the State Attorney, the army, the police, the governor and high levels of organized crime are all in a plot together against Rafael Muñoz Martinez! Can you say "paranoid schizophrenic"?

woody with a view - 2-20-2012 at 01:26 PM

:lol:

good point :lol:

Mula - 2-20-2012 at 01:39 PM

This guy Munoz if getting more and more 'over the top' as his rage grows.

The photos on his web site munoz industries are really old.

Lobsterman - 2-20-2012 at 03:16 PM

I still have my money on Mr. Munoz to win in the end.

tripledigitken - 2-20-2012 at 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina
So...Mark & Olivia, the State Attorney, the army, the police, the governor and high levels of organized crime are all in a plot together against Rafael Muñoz Martinez!.....

and...if this was the case Mr Munoz would be no more!

Skipjack Joe - 2-20-2012 at 03:46 PM

Lobster is right -

The strong shall devour the weak.

comitan - 2-20-2012 at 03:58 PM

Money is the easiest way to open doors but not the only way.

Woooosh - 2-20-2012 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diver
Sure dude,

They will be out last week.
They will be out next week.
Olivia will be in jail.
Olivia will be gone.
Yada, yada, yada ..... so far nothing you have said has come true so I'm curious why you think anyone should believe anything you have to say now ?
.

But Raphael has the legal land title to the hotel. If there is one thing Raphael has on his side, is the legal land title for the national land under the hotel from the SRA. That is his legal specialty. Only Federal Courts can deal with that issue, no one local has the authority.

(With the Zetas breaking out of prison yesterday with the help of the prison wardens, using the death of 44 inmates as a cover- I believe most anything is possible in Mexico is possible. It's a crazy place.

ramuma53 - 2-20-2012 at 04:17 PM

Estate Government" ..

How about a little education on this "legal entity" and what level of primacy it would have, in relationship to laws and regulations of the: National, State, and Municipalities.

It would appear a very interesting legal entity and one that might need a little explaining to many on Baja Nomads, including myself.

I do not know if this type of legal entity has ever been present in the United States.

Thanks in advance for your response

--------------------------
Well, you have states the same as Mexico and they like to feel they are independent legal entities, but all are united in a Federal pact and obligated to follow common laws and rules.
In Mexico, the federal pact obligates the States to obey the Federal laws and no State law can prevail against a Federal law.
In Mexico, we have the Federal law protection named Amparo or habeas Corpus for USA law.
The Amparo in Mexico is a Federal law act that protect the citizen’s Constitutional rights against any illegal act, committed by any authority, including federal or state or city and no authority of any level can disobey a Federal Judge protection order named Suspension “provisional or definitiva” and that mean order to suspend the claimed illegal acts by authority, first provisionally and then definitively.
In other words, the Federal law protection, protect any citizen against any authority act committed in violation of any of the constitutional rights.
In the case of Punta Banda, it was an amparo won by the landowners that obligated the SRA State minister to return the land to them, he did it with 30 minutes margin or he would have to immediately leave the job and be prosecuted by federal law.

ramuma53 - 2-20-2012 at 04:43 PM

Many of you seem to care about Mexico being a lawful place.
We certainly have problems and crooks on the government, but I do not think it is just in Mexico, but the important part is that people do something about it, things do not change by itself, is people who change them.
Many of you Nomads, write me via US2 and ask questions that for some reason you do not want to be associated with. I try to answer them.
Concerning my Buenaventura employees, I can tell you that today a Federal judge found grounds concerning a constitutional rights violation committed by the State authorities and granted Federal Law Protection to them.
At this time, they are in the Federal Judge custody and no longer on the State authority’s custody.
The court appointment has been has been granted for this next Friday and the Federal judge gave 72 hours to the State authorities to show cause.
That means that they will be free from tomorrow or maximum on Friday afternoon.
I have been told that State authorities are very afraid and are trying to fabricate charges, but any illegal attempt will just complicate their own already bad situation and Federal Police is looking very close.
As soon as they are free, they will return to Buenaventura, the fire weapons will be returned to them and charges will be filled against state authorities and Olivia for any damage or robbery committed against my property.
Also, they will have orders not to allow Olvia or Nark to use my property for absolutely no purpose and will stop her with legal force on any attempt.

latina - 2-20-2012 at 04:49 PM

With regards to all states being united in a Federal Pact, in the case of defamation, slander and libel, Baja California Sur still considers them a crime with a sentence of 2- 6 years. Saying that the District Attorney for B.C.S. is in cahoots with organized crime doesn't sound like a very well-thought out public statement for a "lawyer" to be making.

With regards to state laws regarding the use and licensing of firearms... Who holds the license for the rifle ( supposed to only be used for hunting birds and animals, not people) and the pistol that were used to intimidate and bully Mark & Olivia and which is the starting point for this thread. You were not there, with your licensed firearm inside "your" residence protecting it from intruders.
For a lawyer you display little regard for the laws of your country...

ramuma53 - 2-20-2012 at 05:08 PM

Latina
It is difficult to consider defamation, slader or libel what I say, because I have the Navy intelligence and PGR intelligence personell who withnessed the drugs unloadings and who ran to Mulege to get help to catch the drug runners.
It is not defamation to say that Olivia was found with sea turtle on her hands by the Fisheries department, together with the navy marines and PGR officials and latter convicted for that crime while she is just waiting for her jail sentence.
It is public knowledge that she is being tied to the Pacific cartel, it is all over national news.
It is difficult to explain how a North Zone District attornye himself, participated in an armed raid without any court order, just on Olivia's claim that she was caught in my property.
It is difficult to explain why the State District attorney lied to the National Press concerning why they tried to confiscate my property without any court order when he told first that he actod only on Olivia claim that she had been insulted by my security people who caught her in my property without permission during the night.
It is hard to explain why the State District attorney would jeopardize his high post for a junky like Olivia, clearly he received orders to do that from a dark person with a lot of power, not exactly a good power.

It is now harder to explain why the Federal judge found grounds to grant the Federal Protection to my employees against a constitutional violation.

The fire arms licence is to protect my people form all that armed people Olivia use when unloading drugs and the Army is knows it too well sice they have participated in a lot or raids on Olivia's restaurants and have caught her a few times taking her to La Paz.
Also, rifles are used as you know to catch rats and that is what happened to Olivia and Nark that day and she was very fortunate that my people know how to use propertional force or she would be today a dead rat.

[Edited on 2-21-2012 by ramuma53]

mulegemichael - 2-20-2012 at 05:09 PM

whoooooo boy!....smell like soup to you?...luv dat garlic!

latina - 2-20-2012 at 05:21 PM

As usual, a lot of pontificating but you didn't answer the questions....oh yeah, I forgot, you're a lawyer...

Roberto - 2-20-2012 at 05:26 PM

Just out of curiosity - where is that?

Skipjack Joe - 2-20-2012 at 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Lobsterman
I still have my money on Mr. Munoz to win in the end.

Win? He may dominate in this dispute, but he has already lost where it matters. :no:

Very good, lencho!

The man's a loser. If there was any doubt then read the last sentence of his last post. The stuff about rats.

LAND

captkw - 2-20-2012 at 07:49 PM

Just my 2 cantovo's..land,house's,car's,boat's......dont mean sh-t in the big picture....I aint never seen a hearst with a luggauge rack..just saying what IS......K&T.. :cool:

ramuma53 - 2-20-2012 at 07:55 PM

Latina
With regards to all states being united in a Federal Pact, in the case of defamation, slander and libel, Baja California Sur still considers them a crime with a sentence of 2- 6 years. Saying that the District Attorney for B.C.S. is in cahoots with organized crime doesn't sound like a very well-thought out public statement for a "lawyer" to be making.

THE PROVIDED ANSWER WORK FOR THIS QUESTION.

With regards to state laws regarding the use and licensing of firearms... Who holds the license for the rifle ( supposed to only be used for hunting birds and animals, not people)
I HOLD THE LICENCES TO PROTECT MY PROPERTY AND YOU ARE WRONG, THERE ARE DIFFERENT KIND OF LICENCES IN MEXICO, THE KIND I HOLD ARE ISSUED TO DEFFEND PROPERTY WHEN JUST CAUSE ARE DEMOSTRATED AND THE ARMY KNOW FIRST HAND AND VERY WELL THAT WE NEED THEM AT BUENAVENTURA BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE KIND OF RATS WE HAVE THERE AT FEDERAL ZONE.

and the pistol that were used to intimidate and bully Mark & Olivia
THE GUNS WERE NOT USED TO INTIMIDATE THEM, THEY WERE USED TO DEFFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST HER CHEMICAL ATTACK, AN UNPROVOQUED ATTACK DURING THE NIGHT ON THE HOTEL GROUNDS WHERE OLIVIA AND NARK VERY WELL KNOW THEY ARE NOT WELCOMED.

and which is the starting point for this thread.
THIS THREAD IS DESIGNED TO HEAR BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY, AND THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE HEARING, BUT AS YOU THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO ONLY WANT TO HEAR ONE SIDE AND THAT IS NOT FAIR OR ALLOWED.

You were not there, with your licensed firearm inside "your" residence protecting it from intruders.
NO I WAS NOT THERE, BUT THAT IS WHY I HAVE MY SECURITY PEOPLE THERE TO PROTECT IT FROM INTRUDERS NAMED OLIVIA AND NARK MOSTLY.

For a lawyer you display little regard for the laws of your country...

IF I HAD DISREGARD FOR MY COUNTRY'S LAWS, I WOULD NOT HAVE ANY PERMITTS FOR MY GUNS, AND YOU CAN VERY WELL SAY THAT OLIVIA AND NARK ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE DISREGARD FOR OUR LAWS, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES ENTERING MY PROPERTY DURING THE NIGHT WITHOUT BEING ALLOWED AND HOLDING ILLEGAL CHEMICAL WEAPONS ON THEIR HANDS. WHAT WOULD YOU DO AT YOUR HOUSE??????

MY PEOPLE IS GOING TO RETURN AND THEY ARE NOT SWEET PEOPLE, THEY ARE HARDENED PEOPLE USED TO DIFFICULT SITUATIONS AND WHO KNOW HOW TO DEFFEND THEIRSELVES, MY SECURITY CHIEF IS AN ATTORNEY AT LAW AND ACOUNTANT, SO HE VERY WELL KNOW WHEN TO STOP OR NOT AND FOR SURE HE WILL UPHOLD THE LAW AND PROTECT MY PROPERTY, THAT IS HIS JOB EVEN IF HE HAVE TO CATCH A FEW RATS.

[Edited on 2-21-2012 by ramuma53]

Woooosh - 2-20-2012 at 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
Just out of curiosity - where is that?

How to put it... maybe something like "human integrity". My impression from what's gone on here (my only input, to be sure) is he mighta got shorted during distribution...

Those attributes simply doesn't exist in Mexico business dealings. Not fair to compare what you would do stateside (or just elsewhere) with what you should do in Mexico to get the same result. Different games. There's no shame in Mexico and no one will look down on you for trying to game the system for profit. As a "gringo" the odds are against you- not even the documents are in your language. The only way to win is not to play.

ramuma53 - 2-20-2012 at 11:44 PM

Wooosh
Sorry to disagree with you
Problems exist everywhere, I used to have a business in Chula Vista California and had to close it because of monthly armed robberies and I didn't want to have any of my employees killed; I put the robbers in jail and, I just changed the business to Mexico.
In the USA the same kind of problems exist, human always will be human, it doesn’t matter where.
The difference is made by people, who correct those problems one by one and in a while the whole system change.
I believe that today Mexico is in an era like the one you had in the 20s, where the gangsters just claimed all the way to the top and were controlling everything including the authorities.
At that time everybody thought that things would never change, the bad guys were just too powerful, but one by one, people accepted that it was impossible to keep going that way; that is happening in Mexico today, I think that the gangsters just reached the top of their power and start to slide down.
They will not slide down by themselves, you and me have to slide them down; your problem seem to be unsolvable and that will keep going forever; corruption is that way, but if you keep the pressure, the system break down and good things start to happen, just do not despair.
After all, we are dealing with the same problem in different places, authorities’ corruption, but after all, we are in a system that is not that bad, you and me are alive and we are an example that the system is not that bad and that it will change when you push hard enough, just try not to go to the dark side to do it.
Some times it feels like you have to go to prevail, but you and me know that if we do it, it would not be a victory.

Skipjack Joe - 2-21-2012 at 12:18 AM

ramuma,

I was just thinking that perhaps your 5 thugs could be released quickly if it was shown that they were not responsible for their actions. That is, if it was shown that they acted under instructions. Under the orders of - oh, I don't know, you come up with a name that makes sense.

Skipjack Joe - 2-21-2012 at 12:31 AM

Oh, and one other thing.

Your comparison to the situation of the 20's is very apt.

The actions of your gang in this encounter would rival anything the mob could come up with.

In fact, since the start of this thread I 've had visions of Marc and Olivia in the trunk of some automobile that's being pulled out of Conception Bay.

latina - 2-21-2012 at 10:15 AM

I am seriously appalled by your posts and your "knowledge" of the law you profess to represent.
Yes, ramuna, your remarks regarding the character of Olivia, Mark, the governor, the district attorney, the police, and the army are libelous in B.C.S. You are defaming the character and reputation of these people through your repetitive insinuations.
If you do have a firearms license, it is for your purpose, specifically, and doesn't allow you to hand over your arms to unlicensed persons. Protecting one's residence does not involve pointing guns and firing guns OUTSIDE the residence, driving around in cars firing guns, etc.
Finally, your veiled threat against Olivia and Mark couldn't be more perfect in demonstrating exactly what kind of individual they have been putting up with for ten years.

wessongroup - 2-21-2012 at 10:25 AM

"After all, we are dealing with the same problem in different places"

Woooosh, how are YOU making out ... using the legal system, and the players which you are dealing with ...

Are you finding a legal solution to your problem(s), as it would appear that Ramuma53's use of the system to gain control and/or use of his property, even as a Mexican National, and a lawyer, continues to experience legal problems from various levels of Government.

The situation in Mexico with the degree of infiltration into all levels of Country and/or society of the Cartels is something which is being stated in very clear terms by most all Government's and/or associated Governmental Agency's on an international level...

The situation is very dire for Mexico in the short term, I can only hope that some degree of comprise can be worked out which would favor a return to a Mexico which is not the central player in movement of drugs north to the United States, where the market exists .. with that much money... one can expect the worst from many individuals regardless of nationally and/or race ..

Both locations look really good and could really nice places, to live and enjoy life ...

Cypress - 2-21-2012 at 11:09 AM

I doubt seriously if any drug cartel is involved in this cluster "F". It would have been settled long ago with one side or the other assuming room temp. But, this publicity might attract their attention.

Woooosh - 2-21-2012 at 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
"After all, we are dealing with the same problem in different places"

Woooosh, how are YOU making out ... using the legal system, and the players which you are dealing with ...

Are you finding a legal solution to your problem(s), as it would appear that Ramuma53's use of the system to gain control and/or use of his property, even as a Mexican National, and a lawyer, continues to experience legal problems from various levels of Government.

The situation in Mexico with the degree of infiltration into all levels of Country and/or society of the Cartels is something which is being stated in very clear terms by most all Government's and/or associated Governmental Agency's on an international level...

The situation is very dire for Mexico in the short term, I can only hope that some degree of comprise can be worked out which would favor a return to a Mexico which is not the central player in movement of drugs north to the United States, where the market exists .. with that much money... one can expect the worst from many individuals regardless of nationally and/or race ..

Both locations look really good and could really nice places, to live and enjoy life ...

Yes Wiley, my negative outlook is based only on my personal experience with the "system" the past four years. I got another letter from the Director General of PROFEPA yesterday- same chit... they are still investigating. Investigating what exactly? We have a legal and valid concession to protect the beach, yet a squatter with a "prescription positiva" has fenced half of it and declared it her private property with the support of all her friends in local law enforcement. Why and how would I believe the system is better for anyone else after what we have experienced the past four years.

The biggest problem I have is all these authorities (PROFEPA, ZOFEMAT, SEMARNAT, PGJE) have a "Viva la Mexico" attitude but none of them respect a valid land title being held by a Mexican citizen enough to protect and defend it. Who protects the legal rights of the good people in the right?

I believe Mexican authorities are tentative to act- because they don't want to step on the toes of anyone trying to help "a friend" who has more power than they do. They all claim to love Mexico, but won't protect it from theft.

No one could have documented a case better than we have- with letters, photos and even videos viewed by over 5000 people. Yes we may win in the end- but this battle has changed my opinion of Mexico. In the USA I never had a court official lie to my face or suggest a bribe. It happened her in Rosarito Beach though. Even the ZOFEMAT office suggested I pay some money to "move things along". Our family does not pay and we find it repulsive- because it prevents Mexico from progressing.

Luckily our land battle is only to protect beach access for the disabled in Rosarito. We aren't fighting for land under our house or anything like that which this thread is about. We just wanted to do something nice for the community- and the underbelly of Mexican power and their shenanigans came to our doorstep- we did not go looking for it. No good deed goes unpunished. The only way to win is not to play. After four years of fighting- even if we win- we will have lost the respect we had for Mexican systems going into this. jmho.

wessongroup - 2-21-2012 at 12:03 PM

Thanks Woooosh... it all helps.. and I wouldn't be waiting for the "Sinaloa" folks to step up to the plate and disclose too much on their "routes" ...

That one, ya have to find out on your own ... if ya can deal with the "smoke" that would draw !! ...

Or, ya might just take a ride on over to "Culiacan" and ask them ...

"And so the gangsters from Culiacan became world famous kingpins of complex criminal enterprises--many resembling multi-national corporations in structure."

"They're not the common criminal that you're going to see with a golden tooth, black shirt and a white tie with a .45, just standing in a corner. They're not like that anymore. They have another type of thinking. They work with computers, with the best technicians in every field. They have the best chemists in the world. The best lawyers. The best architects. They have the best of the best," said Juan Ponce Edmondson of Interpol.

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/business...

J.P. - 2-21-2012 at 02:46 PM

If the Cartel was involved in either side of this Mini Drama dont you think the conversation would be a lotssss different :?:

Skipjack Joe - 2-21-2012 at 03:18 PM

The only one who "believes" in the involvement of the cartel is Munoz. Although he has often stated that it's common knowledge that Marc is a narc nobody has ever stepped forward on this board to agree. Mysterious submarines in the night ...

Munoz is using this tactic because he's run out. The turtle didn't get Olivia into jail and now this is all that's left. And everyone that's doesn't see it his way is in cahoots with the cartel as well.

wessongroup - 2-21-2012 at 04:06 PM

Baja is Sinaloa "turf".. At this time, with the exception of the guy's in TJ (Arellano-Félix Organization) ... as to specific locations used by these folks from Sinaloa, moving stuff up the peninsula ... good luck on that one... as it seem's a very difficult task to get one's arms around... as evidence by the continuing "War on Drugs".. With less then sterling success to date ..

There are a lot of folks involved from Cabo San Lucas all the way up to Rosarito IMHO ... and the point raised by the individual from Interpol that these folks aren't the run of the mill "Gangsters" is putting it mildly .... extremely well connected and using the best technology available ... and don't think I have seen where they are fighting over "real estate"... rather distribution rights... (turf) ...

I'm retired... even from potential affiliation with Cartel's .. sorry to disappoint

As for the submarines ... can't be used below 10' .. The adobe walls collapse ... regardless of the time of day .. :biggrin:

Would only add .. Mr. Munoz is suing the State and others over being involved with the Cartel's...Now that is a hard one to do... if in fact he is a affiliated in any manner with the Cartel's .. don't ya think :lol:

[Edited on 2-21-2012 by wessongroup]

ramuma53 - 2-21-2012 at 04:17 PM

http://www.razon.com.mx/spip.php?article111367

Woooosh - 2-21-2012 at 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
http://www.razon.com.mx/spip.php?article111367

Raphael and the PGR are apparently moving forward against the BCS Governor and all for protecting the Sinaloa cartel, including M&O. If those accusations were reckless, the Governor would sue for slander.

Wiley is correct the Sinaloans need a ladder to move the drugs up the Baja peninsula, evading military checkpoints (for the most part). There is probably a loose truce in effect between the Sinaloans and the TJ Cartel (CAF- Cartel Arellano Felix) right now. They will become partners. Chapo says the CAF are the only ones "he knows" to work with. They can work together or apart to move drugs and make money without the crippling violence and infighting. Point is- just because you help one Baja cartel doesn't make you the enemy of the other- for now anyway. Just my take on the present situation.

[Edited on 2-22-2012 by Woooosh]

mcfez - 2-21-2012 at 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by captkw
Just my 2 cantovo's..land,house's,car's,boat's......dont mean sh-t in the big picture....I aint never seen a hearst with a luggauge rack..just saying what IS......K&T.. :cool:

ramuma53 - 2-22-2012 at 11:23 AM

http://www.revistacomunicandoalmundo.com/index.php/12-estado...

LA PGR investiga nexos de funcionarios de BCS con el crimen organizado

Categoría: Estados
Publicado el Sábado, 11 Febrero 2012 Escrito por Manrrique G.

La procuraduría General de la República, (PGR) mantiene bajo investigación al gobernador de Baja California Sur, Marcos Cobarrubias, el procurador de Justicia del Estado, Gamil Arreola Leal y el subprocurador de averiguaciones previas zona norte, Hugo Galindo Camacho, debido a que son señalados por brindar protección a integrantes del Cártel del Pacífico, principalmente a Olivia Higera, quien cuenta con 14 denuncias penales ante la Subprocuraduría de Investigación Especializada en Delincuencia Organizada (SIEDO), de las cuales ninguna ha procedido.
De acuerdo a la denuncia penal que este viernes interpusieron abogados del empresario, Rafael Muñoz Martínez ante la PGR, Aguilar también es investigada por la Secretaría de Marina Armada de México, por cocinar tortuga de manera ilegal.
Los abogados del empresario señalaron que los actos de corrupción, impunidad, abuso de poder y los nexos de funcionarios del gobierno de Baja California Sur, quedaron al descubierto luego de que –con la complicidad de Olivia Higuera-, el procurador; el subprocurador de averiguaciones previas zona norte; el MP Aloy Aguiar Yee y los comandantes de la Policía Ministerial, Félix Murillo y de la policía municipal Ramón Agundez Ojeda, armaran un operativo en el hotel Playa Buenaventura, sin mostrar ninguna orden de cateo, girada por un juez.
La denuncia presentada por Rafael Muñoz Martínez en la sede de la PGR, señala que elementos de la Policía Ministerial, irrumpieron de manera violenta y tras someter y golpear a los empleados –entre ellos la administradora-, les fincaron responsabilidad penal por los delitos de robo, asociación delictuosa y portación de armas de fuego, pese a que al momento de revisar dos escopetas, se mostraron los permisos originales del registro ante el CINE de la Paz.
Tanto el operativo violento como la detención y consignación de los empleados de Playa Buenaventura en Baja California Sur, se efectuaron antes de que se presentara alguna denuncia por parte de Olivia Higuera, quien además de contar con 14 denuncias penales por diferentes delitos, principalmente por sus vínculos con el crimen organizado, se encuentra bajo investigación de la Secretaría de Marina Armada de México, por cocinar tortuga de manera ilegal.
De acuerdo a la versión de Rafael Muñoz Martínez, tanto Olivia Higuera como el esposo de ésta, Mark Burbey –de nacionalidad estadounidense-, se dedican al narcotráfico en Baja California Sur y pese a que ambos cuentan con denuncias penales en su contra, éstas no han procedido, debido a que gozan de la protección tanto del Gobernador del Estado, Marcos Alberto Cobarruvias Villaseñor, como del procurador de Justicia de Baja California Sur, Gamil Arreola Leal y de otros funcionarios del gobierno del Estado.
El denunciante, declaró que desde el 2009 ha presentado denuncias ante PGR, Secretaría de Marina, SIEDO, CNDH y Semarnat, entre otras instancias federales, debido a que en su negocio de Olivia Higuera, constantemente llegan embarcaciones con cargamentos de droga; sin embargo, hasta el momento, las querellas no han procedido.
Ante tal situación, el empresario Rafael, Muñoz Martínez, luego de presentar la denuncia penal contra estos funcionarios de Baja California Sur, solicitó a la procuradora general de la República, Marisela Morales Ibañez, una exhaustiva investigación contra el procurador de esa entidad, toda vez que existen evidencias de brindan protección a gente ligada al narcotráfico, entre ellos a Olivia Higuera y al esposo de esta, , Mark Burbey.
Copyright 2011 LA PGR investiga nexos de funcionarios de BCS con el crimen organizado. All Rights Reserved.
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ramuma53 - 2-22-2012 at 01:08 PM

For those of you who think that Olivias has no Organized crime ties just answer the following questions??
How come that a lady who has no money, run a small restaurant on a very far away beach, with very few customers, who pay 4 employees, spend $4000 pesos a day in diesel for her generator and about the same in water, manage to bribe the State District Attorney, the North Zone District Attorney, the local district attorney, 20 state policemen, 20 local policemen and manage to motivate them to put in jeopardy their jobs when they normally do not have even for gas to investigate normal crime but this time they go and invade private property, without a court order or even a motive, when Olivia hadn’t even filled a formal complain ?????????? Detaining 6 people and my attorney, without giving then an explanation for why they were detained, then take the hotel property with them without taking legal note of anything, even the vehicles.
Next day after this, Olivia filled charges for being harassed to try to justify the giant illegality committed by the police and that mean, that when the police invaded my property, they had absolutely no legal cause or motive.
Latter the State District attorney told to the national press that they went to secure my property, but that is a legal procedure that require a court order and no court order exist. That means that the State District Attorney lied to the press and in the State webpage.
But why did Olivia complain of being struggled????
Supposedly being afraid of my security people, she was caught in my hotel during the night, knowing that she is not welcomed there, holding pepper spray on her hands, chemical weapon that she fired against my security people to be able to escape when my people tried to detain her as the law allows when you catch a burglar in the act.
She complains about being harassed with fire arms, but why did she used the chemical weapons against armed people????? She was or suicidal or my people did not show the weapons until they were attacked by the criminal with the pepper spray and even then, they showed restrain not firing at her and Nark when they being attacked with an illegal weapon were justified to fire at the attacker.
She has 14 criminal charges filled formally against her and Nark and has never been prosecuted or detained and those crimes include lying to the judicial authorities, she was convicted for selling turtle soup a federal crime, she was convicted for stealing from Mr. and Mrs. Christ, she was convicted for injuries to Jimmy and never has set a foot in jail.
She complain that she was struggled while being detained for invading other people property and a whole army come to defend her, violating every constitutional right there is, when you need to pay for the police car’s gas to come investigate grave crimes she commit with impunity.
Money does not give you this, political influence neither and there is only one explanation. ORGANIZED CRIME TIES. They are the only ones who can motivate a whole State justice department to jeopardize their positions and put dirt on a state governor.
At this time, Presidential Elections are coming and in the process, nobody want to move the waters; the Pan Candidate, has a flag the organized crime war and will promote life in prison to any politician who is found with organized crime ties; Pan party is attacking several PRI ex governors for alleged ties to organized crime, PRI is doing the same with Ernesto Ruffo and others Pan ex governors; looks like the worst time to be doing this for the State District attorney, but remember that when a politician serves the Organized crime, they do not ask, they order you and they do not care about national politics, they just want their order to be complied with and the Estate District attorney know the penalty for not complying with the master’s orders, that is why he did it, hopping to come clean in one way or the other, something that will not come true and it is exploding all over national news.
This only put in perspective the degree to what Olivia Higuera Aguilar an Nark Burbey are important to the Pacific cartel.

Cypress - 2-22-2012 at 01:15 PM

Jeez! If the cartel was involved you'd already be hanging from a bridge somewhere. :lol:

Diver - 2-22-2012 at 01:22 PM

If Olivia was in the cartel, I think she would have her own guns not just mace.

$350 US per day for generator diesel ? I can run my Honda all day for $40 !

I'm amazed that this guy keeps coming back.
Who the heck are we that he even cares what we think ?
He is obviously not looking to do anything constructive through his posts, just looking for attention.
.

ramuma53 - 2-22-2012 at 01:36 PM

http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2423483.htm

http://www.aztecanoticias.com.mx/notas/seguridad/95960/hotel...

http://www.diario23.com/?p=5589

Why dont you just answer the questions

She has no honda, she has a 75 KW diesel generator running 24 hours a day

If she has used a weapon, she would not be here today, she would be underground and she know it very well, but we think that she was only justifying the police action she had already planned.

latina - 2-22-2012 at 03:19 PM

A denuncia is a complaint against someone, which can even be made online anonymously...I wonder who made the supposed 14 denuncias against Mark & Olivia... If, after investigations, the denuncias are found to be credible and supported by a judge then there is an order to apprehend; obviously you have lost your credibility with the authorities that matter... So now you are taking your manic rants and libelous accusations to the press...Well ramuna you are having your 15 minutes of fame, but you are underestimating people's intelligence and their ability to read between the lines...and to see right through your malicious actions.

DENNIS - 2-22-2012 at 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by latina
A denuncia is a complaint against someone, which can even be made online anonymously...

You gotta be kiddin'. Do the authorities react to these?

latina - 2-22-2012 at 04:56 PM

You bet they do! That, combined with napoleonic law is a pretty frightening and powerful weapon that could be used by an unscrupulous person against his perceived enemy... Of course in the rest of N. America there are anonymous tip lines people can use to notify the authorities of criminal activity as well, but the difference is that north of the Mexican border the law is on the side of the accused...

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