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Turtle bust

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ELINVESTIG8R - 5-8-2009 at 08:27 AM

My friends, you need to stop stirring the pot now. Rafael has re-granted access to Olivia and Mark which is very important to them. Let it alone now. Your pot stirring serves no purpose.

tripledigitken - 5-8-2009 at 08:41 AM

This thread has been a stew that has been stirred from day one by many.

Not everyone has decided who's wearing the Black Hat like you have David.

Ken

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-8-2009 at 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
This thread has been a stew that has been stirred from day one by many.

Not everyone has decided who's wearing the Black Hat like you have David.

Ken

Just to make this perfectly clear. I do not know who is right or wrong in this issue and have not taken sides with either party. I do know that people here who fan the flame to get a reaction out of one side or the other is nonproductive.

Cypress - 5-8-2009 at 12:32 PM

I'm getting the feeling that this Rafael dude has shot his wad! :bounce:

tripledigitken - 5-8-2009 at 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
My firm belief is that Rafael did not change his mind about re-granting passage to Olivia and Mark because he was scared. I am sure he has the resources to protect himself. I do believe he did so because he is a man of his word and is of good character.

I guess I missunderstood this statement.

Man of his word and good character means to me that you believe his side of the story and respect him.

I for one don't know who is right on this and until that is clear to most here this thread will have a long life unless Doug pulls the plug. An action, by the way, I supported very early on.

Ken

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-9-2009 at 10:06 AM

I am so happy this place has calmed down. Rafael, Olivia and Mark need a nice rest.

The Turtle did Not ahead until he stuck his head out!

OLIGUACOMOLE - 5-9-2009 at 05:54 PM

FOR THOSE WONDER WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT, HERE IS WHAT WE SAY HAPPENED TO US...

1) For 6 years we have had a man Rafael Munoz Martinez try to claim our property with false documents. Court has been 6 years La Paz. Rafael Munoz Martinez has made repeated false reports to the Ministero Publico against us.

2) Inspection order is issued specifically for our restaurant on April 8, 2009. Order number is 100.5/OC/03590/09 signed by EL DIRECTOR GENERAL, OCEAN. PRISCILIANO MELENDREZ BARRIOS from Mazatlan, Sinaloa.

3) April 11, 2009 a man and wife with a baby have breakfast in our restaurant. Returns at 1:00 pm asks for service for 20 people. States he will bring all the food. Asks to put covered blue pot in our kitchen. Permission was granted and blue pot was put on top of a stove we no longer use. This was witnessed by three separate women from Ensenada.

4) Anonymous phone call was made to CONAPESCA / SAGARPA ON APRIL 11, 2009 shortly after 1:00 PM claiming there was turtle in a blue pot inside restaurant El Sargasso, there are turtle parts in the trash and there are drugs under the computer at the bar.

5) Officials and marines wearing black masks show at our restaurant at 3:00 PM April 11, 2009 with the order 100.5/OC/03590/09 from Mazatlan, Mexico to search our restaurant specifically names "El Sargasso" for search. Permission was granted without question. Immediately they went to the blue pot and asked what it contained. We told them we did not know it was for a customer requesting special service. We were notified it was turtle stew. Military all wearing black masks enter restaurant saying turtle parts were found in trash. Olivia immediately demands to be shown parts and she is escorted out and shown a plastic bag containing two heads, four flippers and the bottom part of one shell. No guts or blood in a bag that we do not use here at Buenaventura. Olivia accuses officials FROM SAGARPA C. CESAR A. VELASCO DE LA TORRE AND C. JOEL CONTANTINO Card##AS FRANCISCO that they have set her up with turtle which they deny. Same officials search our restaurant finding 10 kilos of cabrilla and ask for the factura for the cabrilla. We are also written up for possession of 10 kilos of fish without a factura.

6) After 4:00 pm Olivia asks officials to go and look for the description of persons that placed the turtle and for their car. Marines go to Requeson search for description of other suspects they do not find any. They do find a woman from Mulege that is cooking turtle. They instruct her to dump the turtle in a hole in the ground. Then return to Buenaventura.

7) 5:00 PM April 11, 2009 Olivia and our cook Bertha are told they are to be taken to Loreto and will be arrested for the turtle. They are processed at the Loreto PGR in Nopolo and locked up in the jail there. Olivia is informed that since it is Saturday she will be there at least until Monday morning because all the officials are off.

8) Sunday April 12, 2009 I am allowed to give blankets and pillows to Olivia and Bertha. In the evening I am informed that Rafael Munoz Martinez is posting on the internet information that is considered confidential. Olivia and bertha are not processed yet. Munoz seems to have lots of information for being out of the area. He makes a Sunday post as follows.

Posted Sunday April 12, 2009 07:52 PM Hide Post

Well, all the articles were just a cover up for Olivia Higuera and Mark Burbey drug unloading business and illegal turtle catching in the Restaurant El Zargazo on Buenaventura Beach in Bahia Concepcion, Mulege, she was caught this Saturday by the Marine Commandoes with her hands full selling illegal turtle in her restaurant and is at this moment in Federal custody in Loreto, ready to go to jail for 12 years; the illegality of the property papers was actually put before the Federal Judge and he found that the property papers were real and Olivia was just trying to confuse things, also you can ask Mr. Thad Braxton in Buenaventura Beach to se that he is stil in his house, so all the Olivia and Mark acusations were just a smoke curtain for their illegal activities that are now over.
Hey this is Mexico, but still a Lawfull place where the bad guys go to jail as it happened to Olivia, just watch el Sudcaliforniano now when they know the true events.

Monday 13, 2009 Olivia and Bertha are processed. Since it was a holiday week PGR officials are slow to come in to the office. It takes all day until 11:00 PM to get the two released. Bail costs 44,000 pesos. Munoz is all over the internet posting claims about Olivia and the turtle.

We are having this case and officials responsible investigated for possible corruption.

24baja - 5-9-2009 at 06:07 PM

Oh my GOSH, Stop already!

BajaGringo - 5-9-2009 at 06:54 PM

Did I mention these Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Models taking pictures of themselves???

Howard - 5-9-2009 at 10:40 PM

Hey Baja Gringo

After opening up your swimsuit link I forgot what this thread was all about. Maybe one of the girls was from the Dry Tortugas Islands and that is the common thread between he girls and the subject at hand.

coho - 5-10-2009 at 04:32 PM

Just wondering how turtles are commonly captured in the Sea of Cortez. It would seem that they are bi-catch in netting operations. Any experience in they manner in which they are acquired? Dorado fishing last week we observed two turtles with a shell size of approx. 1 meter. They are still out there and hopefully experiencing a comeback in numbers.

shari - 5-11-2009 at 08:36 AM

I have good news....yesterday being mothers day was one of those days where many families feasted on cauhuama...so it was a topic of conversation. I was happy to hear that this tradition was no longer possible...that finally people are realizing they must give it up. So we had pulpo en la disca...it was so yummy! with coctel de chocolatas as an apetizer...ummm

DENNIS - 5-11-2009 at 09:20 AM

There are turtles living in the waters in front of the power plant in Chula Vista. I'd like to see someone try to capture one of these guys. The judge would have no mercy.

mulegemichael - 5-11-2009 at 04:56 PM

i think this subject is finally losing steam...whew!...thanks dennis, for trying to keep it going, but..i'll check on all the "usual suspects" in two weeks when we go down for the dorado tourney...may be some shallow graves by then..oh boy..

DENNIS - 5-11-2009 at 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mulegemichael
thanks dennis, for trying to keep it going,

That, certainly, was not my intention. Mine was to offer a little known fact to those who may appreciate a little known fact. You can see by my past disinterest in this thread how my intentions never approached support of the nonsense presented , and I would never support any type of hyperbole that would lead to a prolongation of the crap presented here in this thread.

What's up with you Michael? Why the attack on me? Am I misreading it or, is it on with you and me? I'm in the mood for anything and everything.
Tell me....

[Edited on 5-12-2009 by DENNIS]

roundtuit - 5-11-2009 at 06:40 PM

Dennis, Have you ever meet any of the three people mentioned or been to the restaurant or motel. Or been south of GN Let a good thread die with out stiring the BLUE POT

mulegemichael - 5-11-2009 at 07:19 PM

well, i can see it's off to the races with dennis...i have tried and tried to avoid this crap but i knew this is where it would eventually end up......so....what?...so...and NO...yer not misreading me...i HAVE the time!....what IS the time?.....is it time?

24baja - 5-11-2009 at 07:21 PM

here is a hug and a flower if you guys just kiss & make up.....peace on earth good will toword man and the like. :tumble:

DENNIS - 5-11-2009 at 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mulegemichael
is it time?

Yeah...I guess it is. Don't attack me just for the sake of notariety. It won't do you any good.
You jumped off on me for less than nothing and followed up with a bunch of childish jibberish.
What did I say that prompted a continuation of this original thread?
I said nothing in that regard. I offered a bit of information that was meant to inform the bored audience of pertinant, unrelated information. That's what I did.
You..a-hole that you are..decided to tell everybody of my efforts to prolong the agony of a long overloaded pile of crap thread that should have been put to death days ago.
You did that maliciously and knew that when you hit the POST button.
What was your effort in the quest for peace and understanding here? I'll tell you what it was. It was NOTHING.
So...Don't bother me with your nonsense. You don't have what it takes.

And you, roun2it..........I live here. Don't ever think you know how far, in any direction I have traveled in my neighborhood. You just continue to be a good tourist in Baja and everything else will take care of itself.

Byron - 5-11-2009 at 09:00 PM

Olivia and Munoz are now passé.

motoged - 5-11-2009 at 09:18 PM

Hmmmmm....

It seems that the chickens in this coop are pecking at each other ....wassup??? The worms not out????

mulegemichael - 5-12-2009 at 07:47 AM

dennis...i DO hope you are kidding, here...i know i am...cant really tell..

DENNIS - 5-12-2009 at 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mulegemichael
dennis...i DO hope you are kidding, here...i know i am...cant really tell..

It didn't seem like you were kidding when you posted it. I apologize for my abrupt overly-defensive reaction. I have good days and bad days. Yesterday was a bad one. I'm sorry for that.

vandenberg - 5-12-2009 at 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
\It didn't seem like you were kidding when you posted it. I apologize for my abrupt overly-defensive reaction. I have good days and bad days. Yesterday was a bad one. I'm sorry for that.

Good post Dennis.
I'm proud of you.

mulegemichael - 5-12-2009 at 08:58 AM

just totally a jokester, amigo...not a serious bone in my body as everyone will tell you...sorry you misinterpreted me; i was being a smartass...

BajaNuts - 5-12-2009 at 08:59 AM

Keep it up guys,
"turtle bust" is #3 in stats for Most Replied To Topic.

DENNIS - 5-12-2009 at 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaNuts
Keep it up guys,
"turtle bust" is #3 in stats for Most Replied To Topic.

"Only the good die young."

BajaGringo - 5-12-2009 at 09:34 AM

I can't believe that you guys didn't spend more time checking out that link to the models of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue.

I mean now that was worth getting your blood pressure worked up...

:spingrin:

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-12-2009 at 09:37 AM

I have said it in the past and I will say it again. I have no clue which party is right or wrong in the turtle issue and it sounds like there is no land issues. I only hope that it gets resolved so the affected parties can get on with life and have peace. I will also say this again I truly thank Rafael for listening with his heart to someone he does not know then make that hard decision not to close the access to Olivia and Mark. I believe it took guts for him to come to that decision. Rafael has my total respect. I may have those thoughts and feelings without siding with him.

Dang spelling of mine.

[Edited on 5-12-2009 by ELINVESTI8]

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-12-2009 at 09:38 AM

P.S. Ron I peeked....Hahahahahaha.

BajaGringo - 5-12-2009 at 11:06 AM

You only peeked???

I made it my new home page, desktop and screen saver...

:lol:

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-12-2009 at 12:08 PM

:lol:

ramuma53 - 5-12-2009 at 07:27 PM

KAT54
for sure you dont know anything about the law.
Olivia and Mark can not sue me again, they did it in 2003 and lost because they could not prove any kind of property.
I can close her any time and she know it, I did it one time and she is still going to criminal court for trying to break through my fence 3 times.
Since you can see in the webpae the paper where she ask me for permission to cross my property, I can take that permission out at any time and they can not do anything.
You will say " but you have to allow free pasage to the Federal Zone" you are right, but on foot and leave their cars on the road, let see how many customer will want to leave their cars on the road and walk 300 mts jumping rocks to go to her restaurant.

ramuma53 - 5-12-2009 at 08:17 PM

OLIGUACAMOLE
Maybe you didn’t notice but the military raided the Hotel kitchen too, but as usual we don't have anything illegal, but they certainly looked for it.
You keep saying that someone called the police, but you have the only telephone in 15 miles so the call has to be originated in your restaurant.
You keep saying "your property" why don’t you show here any kind of paper that prove your property; I did it, why not you.
I just talked with the PGR Commander that caught you (how I manage to do that? remember that I own ABC newspaper in Baja) he told me that a “gringo” made the tip, but on drugs and he said that they caught some drugs but the Marines did not confiscated them, also a small gun that never made it to the police station; he said that if the PESCA guys would not have been there, the Marines would not have caught anything.
This means that you had a deal with the Marines; also the lady they caught in Requeson is the aunt of your relative "El Gordo" and that is why they did not prosecuted her.
Also since Nark claim to be your co owner and since the charges are against the restaurant owners, the investigation will be redirected against all the co owners.
Also here in Mexico City, the PGR guys are asking how did you managed to get bailed out since the crime has a penalty of 6 to 12 years jail sentence and the mean is 9 years and you cannot get bailed if the mean penalty is over 6 years, they will review your bail for sure and who granted it too.
Of course the whole deal is going to be reviewed, I certainly will not allow corruption to work in this case and people here in Mexico are willing to go to the bottom, the TURTLES claim revenge and you will make a good example so people understand that it is not OK to eat a little turtle.
I am asking the PGR in Mexico City to attract the investigation on you, let’s see how you manage in Mexico City.
Also in Mazatlan at the Navy base they will review how the raid missed certain objects that were not confiscated but looked over by the PESCA and PGR agents.
One thing is certain, this is not over yet and we will see corrections made in a few days.

Bajajack - 5-12-2009 at 08:37 PM

I can't wait, just give us the verdict now. :rolleyes:

Skipjack Joe - 5-13-2009 at 08:59 AM

What a creep!

David K - 5-13-2009 at 09:05 AM

Mexico: The AMIGO Country!

Byron - 5-13-2009 at 09:42 AM

"The Eminent Demise of Oliguacamole" a novel by Ramuma53

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-13-2009 at 09:58 AM

Rafael, whatever is said in here about you by anyone in a negative light, I sincerely hope you can remain calm and continue in your good graces regarding your word on the access for Olivia and Mark to their property. I for one do not know why people attack one side or the other without knowing the actual truth. I guess just human frailty. I for one thank you even though I do not know you or Olivia and Mark. Take care all of you. May this be resolved in a peaceful and just manner. David

coho - 5-13-2009 at 10:59 AM

Instant jail sentence with no bail or trial for a fish and wild life offense? I better stop fishing in Mexico.

BajaGringo - 5-13-2009 at 12:36 PM

Well, I remember Hank Rhon saying that women were his favorite animal species...

:rolleyes:

David K - 5-13-2009 at 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
Well, I remember Hank Rhon saying that women were his favorite animal species...

:rolleyes:

Ex-mayor Jorge Hank? Here he is with the esposa of my web host in 2005... I took the photo, and that is as close as I got to him (bodygaurds out of view)!

TijuanaFun.jpg - 36kB

ramuma53 - 5-13-2009 at 11:10 PM

ELINVEST8
I gave you my word I will not close the access untill she violate again the law and I will keep it

ramuma53 - 5-13-2009 at 11:12 PM

COHO
As long as you dont fish protected species you will have no trouble but if you fish protected species I think even you agree you will deserve to go to jail and I don't think in the USA you will do better.

[Edited on 5-14-2009 by ramuma53]

Bajahowodd - 5-13-2009 at 11:21 PM

Geez. You guys think Hank even merits comment? He's like the Mexican Donald Trump.

BajaGringo - 5-14-2009 at 05:54 AM

I have tried any and every means possible to hijack this thread.

If it can't be done with scantily clad bikini models, then it is probably an impossibility and I should have just given up.

Centuries from now, when we are all gone and forgotten, this thread will still be on top, with 447929 pages, 8958580 posts and 1791716000 views.

And we still won't know what happened to the turtles...

ELINVESTIG8R - 5-14-2009 at 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
ELINVEST8
I gave you my word I will not close the access untill she violate again the law and I will keep it

Rafael, I believe you!

CaboRon - 5-14-2009 at 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaGringo
You only peeked???

I made it my new home page, desktop and screen saver...

:lol:

Munoz Employees, Officials and Letter

OLIGUACOMOLE - 5-14-2009 at 03:30 PM

Well the employees of the hotel are on the board at the military check point north of Loreto. I will try and upload the picture. If any of you are interested the picture is top and center. I am not sure what kind of drugs were found on them.

Officials of the turtle search order are going to be investigated. One official of SAGARPA said this is the first time a he has seen a search order from Mazatlan. They all come normally from this state. Our search order specifically for our restaurant was issued from Mazatlan on April 8, officials showed up to raid our restaurant on April 11 after a phone tip.

This is a letter I just recieved from one of the of the homes next to Munoz..... and his employees:
Greetings, by now you probably know that we were at the beach over night last week. We were there to empty our house....about 9 days ago I received email from a friend in Asuncion that said to look at the nomad board and see just what was being said about you two and Munoz...Whew!! pretty scary...Before that we were seriously considering moving there for a year so ******* could master spanish and we would home school her,,,just like you guys did with Marks daughter Brianna. Then we read the board....This seems to us to be serious stuff. If Munoz did have the turtle planted then he is capable of much more....I doubt that this will end if you win your court case...think what he would do then....arrange an accident??? who knows..What I do know is that we can't risk being in the line of fire...You two have been very kind to us and especially to ******* and we will miss that...and the beach...but we just can't stay under the current atmosphere.. when we arrived at the beach we found that we had been robbed again ( that makes 4 times now) and about 1/3 of the stuff we came for was gone.....we took what was left and **** and ***** ( and his two employees) took what we did not want.....I hate to just walk away from the house but what choice did we have?? We wish you well and hope you prevail over your issues. I did read what Munoz said about the fight in the bar two years ago and if it comes to that I will testify for you as to what happened....You did nothing wrong and there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there, ( most of it from Sr. Munoz)......Please be very careful as it appears that it is far from over. I believe there is potential there for real harm to come to you two...
If things clear up we may return one day, but between the violence in the north and now this in Baja Sur I am not sure when we will go to Mexico again....it is just not the same anymore.....
Please be very careful....and thank you for all your kindness over the years..

****, ***** and *******

Cypress - 5-14-2009 at 03:53 PM

Creed? They have lots of people that are controlled by the the same folks that are lined up against Mark and Olivia. Beware!

sourdough - 5-14-2009 at 04:01 PM

BajaGringo,
After a week of avoiding this thread, I thought I'd take another quick look. You have to mention scantily-clad bikinis and now I have to go through fifteen skipped pages to see what I missed! Thanks!!

Paladin - 5-14-2009 at 04:19 PM

Oh please Master of the Sea

Do not let this thread die.

coho - 5-14-2009 at 06:13 PM

Through all of this drama, I have had a hard time believing that an endanged species violation could possibly carry a 12 year sentence. Did a google today and found that in the US the maximum penalty for this type of violation is one year incarceration and a healthy fine. Mexico, of course, is a different country and could possibly have harsher penalties. Now it is time for Mr Munoz to step up and back up his statements. Please sir, verify the penalty for this type of violation. Your credibility is at stake.

ramuma53 - 5-14-2009 at 06:36 PM

COHO
please check http://info4.juridicas.unam.mx/ijure/fed/7/496.htm?s=
here is the article from the Federal penal code
CODIGO PENAL FEDERAL
LIBRO SEGUNDO
TÍTULO VIGESIMO QUINTO. DELITOS CONTRA EL AMBIENTE Y LA GESTIÓN AMBIENTAL.
CAPÍTULO SEGUNDO. DE LA BIODIVERSIDAD
Artículo 420

Folio: 6574
ARTICULO 420. SE IMPONDRA PENA DE UNO A NUEVE AÑOS DE PRISION Y POR EL EQUIVALENTE DE TRESCIENTOS A TRES MIL DIAS MULTA, A QUIEN ILICITAMENTE:

I. CAPTURE, DAÑE O PRIVE DE LA VIDA A ALGUN EJEMPLAR DE TORTUGA O MAMIFERO MARINO, O RECOLECTE O ALMACENE DE CUALQUIER FORMA SUS PRODUCTOS O SUBPRODUCTOS;

II. CAPTURE, TRANSFORME, ACOPIE, TRANSPORTE O DAÑE EJEMPLARES DE ESPECIES ACUATICAS DECLARADAS EN VEDA;

III. REALICE ACTIVIDADES DE CAZA, PESCA O CAPTURA CON UN MEDIO NO PERMITIDO, DE ALGUN EJEMPLAR DE UNA ESPECIE DE FAUNA SILVESTRE, O PONGA EN RIESGO LA VIABILIDAD BIOLOGICA DE UNA POBLACION O ESPECIE SILVESTRES;

IV. REALICE CUALQUIER ACTIVIDAD CON FINES DE TRAFICO, O CAPTURE, POSEA, TRANSPORTE, ACOPIE, INTRODUZCA AL PAIS O EXTRAIGA DEL MISMO, ALGUN EJEMPLAR, SUS PRODUCTOS O SUBPRODUCTOS Y DEMAS RECURSOS GENETICOS, DE UNA ESPECIE DE FLORA O FAUNA SILVESTRES, TERRESTRES O ACUATICAS EN VEDA, CONSIDERADA ENDEMICA, AMENAZADA, EN PELIGRO DE EXTINCION, SUJETA A PROTECCION ESPECIAL, O REGULADA POR ALGUN TRATADO INTERNACIONAL DEL QUE MEXICO SEA PARTE, O

V. DAÑE ALGUN EJEMPLAR DE LAS ESPECIES DE FLORA O FAUNA SILVESTRES, TERRESTRES O ACUATICAS SEÑALADAS EN LA FRACCION ANTERIOR.
SE APLICARA UNA PENA ADICIONAL HASTA DE TRES AÑOS MAS DE PRISION Y HASTA MIL DIAS MULTA ADICIONALES, CUANDO LAS CONDUCTAS DESCRITAS EN EL PRESENTE ARTICULO SE REALICEN EN O AFECTEN UN AREA NATURAL PROTEGIDA, O CUANDO SE REALICEN CON FINES COMERCIALES.

as you see the penalty is from 1 to 9 but on the last part, it add 3 more years for doing it for commetial purposes and that is 12 plus doing it in a protected area plus doing it in a Federal Zone.
Added to this there are other fines and administrative penalties for violating several of the clauses for her Concession, like renting a house (some of you have been there), building fixed constructions when she had only a permit for movable structures, selling alchool in a Federal Zone without a Federal permit.
Also the investigation has been augmented to include all the co owners.
We can expect a formal inprisionment order isued by the Federal Judge in the next few days. The bail was only for the time while the District attorney added charges and proff.
Looks like the turtles are ready to execute revenge.

[Edited on 5-15-2009 by ramuma53]

coho - 5-14-2009 at 06:56 PM

Ramuma53, Thank you for your rapid reply to this request. Your immediate response is appreciated and you had the facts at your fingertips. Gracias. Mexico has taken a solid stance in protecting endangered species....just wish they had more funds to enforce the illegal netting that is destroying the remaining fisheries.

ramuma53 - 5-14-2009 at 08:05 PM

COHO
And less corruption too.

ramuma53 - 5-15-2009 at 09:39 AM

OLIGUACAMOLE Olivia and Nark Burbey
you are as unethical as always in publishing a private letter from somebody who certainly HAD some confidence in you, but I am now obligated to put here another letter from the same person who read his own words here i disbelief of your breach of confidence:

From: TERRYRMURF@aol.com [mailto:TERRYRMURF@aol.com]
Sent: Fri 5/15/2009 9:01 AM
To: rafael_munoz
Subject: Re: Quick trip down

Sr.Munoz

I can understand why you may be upset or embarrassed by Marks posting of a
private letter to them. I wrote that to " tell them what they wanted to
hear" and keep them distracted. I believe in "keeping your friends close
and your enemies closer" That was only meant for them and not to be posted
publicly. I don't like to think that you would take what I wrote
personal...it was not meant for anyone else to see....I do understand why you may
feel that way but hope you understand why I said what I said. You should know
by now by now and by my actions in the past just where I stand....They
rest is B.S. for others to interpret. I do apologize for any discomfort Marks
posting may cause you...that was not my intent. I am not your enemy, If
my writing of concerns for Marks and Olivias safety causes them to give up
and leave the beach all will be well. Now I hope this does not end up on
the internet.....as it is between us, and let them think we are not allies
and see what happens next.....

Terry

dtbushpilot - 5-15-2009 at 09:56 AM

Now I hope this does not end up on
the internet.....as it is between us, and let them think we are not allies
and see what happens next.....

So you posted it anyway.......

You're a real "class act" ramu.......dt

Terry28 - 5-15-2009 at 10:46 AM

Clearing the air.....I now know that there is no expectation of privacy anywhere. Both parties involved in this battle have been kind to me and my family over all the years this has been going on. Mark and Oli have always treated us in a friendly manner. Sr. Munoz has always been friendly and up front with us. I have tried to maintain a freindly relationship with all...I see that may have failed....My fault...The issue is between those two....that's why they have a legal system...such as it is...
We don't have any legal claims to any land there. I don't want this to escalate any farther than it has. We wish this had never happened but it has and now it seems to be being debated here on a public forum, I don't think this is the place. I apologize to both sides for any offense taken, none was intended. We just wish to remain friendly with all....
This will be my first and last post on this subject.
Terry

rpleger - 5-15-2009 at 12:22 PM

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :no:

DENNIS - 5-15-2009 at 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rpleger
ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :no:

Gawwwwdammmmm...for sure. This thread has to be treated like any other backed-up toilet. It's stinkin' up the whole house.

Cypress - 5-15-2009 at 02:06 PM

Evidently, the smell of poop is drawing a good crowd. :biggrin:

Nothing like a peeing contest to attract a gathering.

coho - 5-15-2009 at 06:38 PM

Ramuma53, Concerning the fight that occurred two years ago at Oli's bar. You have stated that the the unruly American was taken into the sea to drown by Olivia's employees after being severely beaten. You also have stated that you took Mark to the ground with one martial arts manuever or punch...whatever. Do you feel that violence can be justified in any way shape or form when neighbors have a dispute? I only make this post to foster "peace and love". Would it be possible that you could shake hands and apologize to each other....in the name of human fraility...admit guilt of defamation on both sides... and finally let this dispute subside?

mulegemichael - 5-15-2009 at 08:45 PM

ah, fer gawds sake....i just cannot believe it...can i get a friggin beer at this joint now?...i love the place!...i'll be there soon and will give an "accurate" blow by blow, to the minute, just breaking, independent, "looking at the future", "what happens now?", etc, ...report.....not sure how accurate it will be according to the time of day...but it will be sincere...

arrowhead - 5-15-2009 at 09:46 PM

Hahaha. I just came upon this thread. I guess I never noticed it before. Let me tell you a little story:

Olivia was married to a gringo named Mike for many years and started the hotel and bar with him and also started to build the houses that they lease there. Mike was a drug runner and pilot and came up with the seed money for all this by moving drugs to the hotel and then on to the USA. They had made a deal with the eijdo and Olivia claimed she was a member, even though she was not. One bright sunny afternoon about 10 years ago Olivia comes back from a shopping trip and finds Mike having carnal knowledge with a 16-year old employee on top of the bar and throws him out, then files a false complaint against Mike to keep him away from the property. Mike leaves for the mainland and although rumors fly that he is dead, he is still going strong and married to a very young wife.

Olivia hires a drifter gringo named Mark to be a bartender, and she soon hooks up with him. She then sells Mike's hotel to two gay Italians and they run it for several years. Then Munoz shows up from TJ. He tells the Italians that he is Mafia from TJ and extorts the hotel out of them for $50,000 US and gets them to sign it over to him. Munoz then starts working on all the surrounding areas with the same scam and steals other lands and properties.

Mark and Olivia enlist the eijdo to go after Munoz but he pays them off and the ejido switches sides and say Olivia is not a member of the eijdo.

Munoz is a two-bit scam artist from TJ who got lucky with these marooons. The glove is a BS thing to give everyone something to identify him. There is nothing wrong with his hand. You have to consider how gullible many Mexicans are when it comes to the alleged mafia, and how some scammers pretend they are really bad and dangerous as this clown does. It's all macho BS.

The 16 year Mike was doing on the bar is the daughter of the Mexican realtor who sold a bunch of land in Punta Chivato a couple of years ago for an American and then left the country with all the cash.

Anyway, there are no good guys in this saga. It's all bad. A wise gringo would just stay far away from this cluster flop.

fishbuck - 5-15-2009 at 09:56 PM

Finally something that actually makes sense! I vote for this as the real story!

dtbushpilot - 5-15-2009 at 10:02 PM

Hahaha. I just came upon this thread. I guess I never noticed it before. Let me tell you a little story:

You really expect us to believe that arrow?

At least it's a good story......dt

Ford - 5-15-2009 at 11:14 PM

Registered just 11 days ago (arrowhead)? Sounds like someone might be playing games? Does anyone know if this will be available in paperback? Judy will you carry it? How about a movie? I hope it is not a tragic ending!

CaboRon - 5-16-2009 at 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishbuck
Finally something that actually makes sense! I vote for this as the real story!

Pescador - 5-16-2009 at 09:22 AM

Could Arrowhead be related to Minnow?

TheColoradoDude - 5-16-2009 at 09:27 AM

Will someone please draw up a story board!
:coolup:

Udo - 5-16-2009 at 09:28 AM

How did we get from "Turtle Bust" to Arrowhead's c-ckamamy story?

CaboRon - 5-16-2009 at 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by udowinkler
How did we get from "Turtle Bust" to Arrowhead's c-ckamamy story?

It's a good read .....

arrowhead - 5-16-2009 at 11:52 AM

LOL, ignore the message. Shoot the messenger.

This board is a real brain trust.

Bajaboy - 5-16-2009 at 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
LOL, ignore the message. Shoot the messenger.

This board is a real brain trust.

Your credentials, please?

burnrope - 5-16-2009 at 03:15 PM

I'm beginning to think that this thread will live longer than a turtle.

AHHHHH THE TURTLE PHOOOO...

OLIGUACOMOLE - 5-16-2009 at 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Terry28
Clearing the air.....I now know that there is no expectation of privacy anywhere. Both parties involved in this battle have been kind to me and my family over all the years this has been going on. Mark and Oli have always treated us in a friendly manner. Sr. Munoz has always been friendly and up front with us. I have tried to maintain a freindly relationship with all...I see that may have failed....My fault...The issue is between those two....that's why they have a legal system...such as it is...
We don't have any legal claims to any land there. I don't want this to escalate any farther than it has. We wish this had never happened but it has and now it seems to be being debated here on a public forum, I don't think this is the place. I apologize to both sides for any offense taken, none was intended. We just wish to remain friendly with all....
This will be my first and last post on this subject.
Terry

I DID NOT PRINT YOUR NAME! We wish you good luck too! You are great family.

Everyone should stand up for what they say and stick by it! If everyone did......then the bullies would not run the school yard. This is not going to be my last post! ----The turtle did not get ahead until he stuck his head out.

ramuma53 - 5-16-2009 at 07:11 PM

COHO
Olivia and Mark tried to kill the american who was defending a Mexican who was refused service by Olivia because he was a low calss Mexican, that made the American very mad and yelled to Mark and Olivia and then Mark hit him over the head with a Machete, opening his head and took him down unconcious and bleeding like a pig; they togh that they had killed him but this guy came alive again when they trew him on the sea to simulate that he had died outiside the restaurant and he yelled like mad, bringing people from the hotel, both my employees and guests; several people heard Olivia yelikk to Mark to finish killing him fast but the people from the hotel were faster and rescued him and tokk him to Mulege where he made a formal complain to the police and he had to be taken to Loreto because his wounds were very deep and dangerous to his life.
Latter, Olivia and Mark were able to simulate that one of her employees had wounded the American, he was sentenced to several years in jail but has never served a day in jail, the sentence have never been executed.
Sorry but I have never started the violence and that is why I have never been prosecuted for that; the time I put him down was because inside my land, we caught him stealing and detained him but he attacked me with very bad results for him; he had 3 employees with him who never helped him, only took him to his house; in other words, we caught a thief, he attacked me and had very bad results.
The other time one of my employees became very mad because Olivia and Mark went and put a formal complain against a postal man who helped my employee by bringing a galon of gas when he had no vehicle; he went alone to tell him what kind of people he was and Mark didn't take it well, he attacked my employee and went down also at the first blow; he is very big but obviously not very agile; my emplyee wiight about 1/2 of his weight.
I never start violence, but I know how to defend myself and he has a prohibition to enter my property, he can only use the road to his house and every time I catch him outside I throw him out as forcefully as needed; he can avoid that by just staying where he is allowed

ramuma53 - 5-16-2009 at 07:50 PM

ARROWHEAD
Even me laughed with what you said, you are right about MIKE the Olivia's ex husband and Mark now known as Nark, Olivia is still going strong on the drug running because Mike was just her pilot and since then they have been doing it.
you obviously do not know me or know the hotel's story straight, first I wish you can say to Roberto Melony and his wife Franca that he is gay, because they don't know it; they are a very staright Italian couple and very good persons that to this day are my friends.
Obviously you also don't know much about Mexican mafia, they don't allow their members to run on oposition parties like I did, they only let their candidates run on the winning parties since they want their money back.
well, it is good to read from some body who know the drug connections on Olivia and her EX Mike.

Byron - 5-16-2009 at 08:08 PM

What about the black glove ?

El Comadante Loco - 5-16-2009 at 11:39 PM

Wow!!! This is the best stuff I have read.. It is full of sex, drugs, land grabs, money, mafia, turtles, gays, bureauacracy, intrigue and deceit. I was worried what to do with my spare time since all the TV shows had their final episodes for the season.. This almost as good as LOST.
I want to thank all the cast of characters from Buenaventura for a great performance. You all should be up for an award " BAJA'S MOST OUTSTANDING AND CORUPT PENDEJOS "
I can't wait for the next episode in this caper..
Who gets the book deals and movie rights? These may be worth more than the hotel, restaurant, land and the turtles...

GOD SAVE THE TURTLES

CaboRon - 5-17-2009 at 05:58 AM

ArroyoTaxi - 5-17-2009 at 07:07 PM

Gays and machetes and drugs.... OH MY.

Every single person involved in this cluster**** needs to take a c-cktail of Paxil, Ritalin and Tequila.

ramuma53 - 5-18-2009 at 10:32 AM

Maria Olivia Higuers Aguilar and MarkJerome Burbey going to Jail this week
Olivia is being prosecuted by a La Paz judge that is not accecible to the Estate District Atorney, corruption is out of the question, their atempts failed already.
They can be aprhended at any minute by the Federal Police.

Sharksbaja - 5-18-2009 at 10:53 AM

This has got to be a ground-breaking event here. Mr. Munoz is prefacing the purported criminal trial with information acquired from ...... ???

Why are you tipping them off that they will be arrested? Isn't THAT illegal?

ramuma53 - 5-18-2009 at 09:39 PM

It is not a secret, she is on bail only while the judge verified the charges, she may even find her charges unfounded and release her at once or he may find them funded and put her in jail for the trial, it is up to him.
Even her attorney know it, the only new fact is that she will be tried by an honest judge not accesible to the Estate District Attorney and that the time to know if she will be out or in is near.

Bajajack - 5-19-2009 at 11:08 AM

Just stirring the Turtle Pot back to the top. :coolup:

KAT54 - 5-19-2009 at 02:34 PM

So far this is what I understand from all this.
Correct me if I am wrong.

The Edijo rented land to Mike an American.
Munoz says Mike was a drug runner flying drugs
from the mainland to baja then north to the USA.
Mike built the hotel with drug money.
Mike sold the hotel to an Italian gay couple.
Olivia managed the hotel.
The gay couple fired Olivia for stealing funds.
Munoz says she was a “coke head” with powder up her nose.
She used the funds from the hotel to get a beach concession in front of the hotel.
Olivia caught Mike doing “The Wild Monkey” with a 16 year old on the bar in the restaurant.
Mikes girlfriend was the daughter of a well know realtor in the Mulege area.
Olivia kicked Mike out.
Mike flew away with his young girlfriend never to be heard of again.
Mike is either dead from a plane crash or living with his young wife.
Olivia hires a “young drifter” Mark (Narc) to work the bar.
Narc is younger than Olivia.
Soon Olivia and Narc are doing “The Wild Monkey” on the bar.
Want to eat there?
About 10 years ago, Munoz shows up with a land title.
Edijo does not fight the title.
Munoz says he filed for the property in 1971 when he was 20 years old.
He gives $50k to the gay couple and takes over management the hotel.
Where did Munoz get $50k?
Olivia and Narc say the money comes from drug trafficking.
Munoz employees are arrested for drug crimes.
Munoz says he knows this but cannot do anything about his employee’s actions.
Narc says their picture is at an Army checkpoint in Loreto.
Munoz says Olivia and Narc are using the beach for drug trafficking.
He says they receive boatloads of drugs all the time at 3AM.
No one has seen this except Munoz.
He made a tape but no one has seen it.
Narc and Olivia never get caught.
One time, there is a “fight” in the restaurant where Munoz
says Narc almost killed another American.
His employees saved this guy before
Narc and Olivia could drownd him in the ocean.
Olivia is seen yelling “Narc, kill him”
Munoz says he “pounded” Narc one time when Narc confronted him.
Munoz is a “karate” champion.
Like Chuck Norris.
Recently, Olivia gets “P-nched” for selling turtle soup.
Munoz knows about this before it happens.
Looks like a “setup”.
Authorities were called a week before it happened.
Olivia is released on bail.
Munoz says Narc and Olivia will be arrested next week.
How does he know?
People that rent houses on the beach are moving out.
Too dangerous to live there and they get robbed all the time.

arrowhead - 5-19-2009 at 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
LOL, ignore the message. Shoot the messenger.

This board is a real brain trust.

Your credentials, please?

You want my credentials? As if there is something that I could post here that would somehow qualify me. Now, wouldn't that just be another variation of "shoot the messenger" ?

Wait, I know. You know that 16-year old that Mike was boning? Her name is Gabby.

gnukid - 5-19-2009 at 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KAT54
So far this is what I understand from all this.
Correct me if I am wrong.

This is what happened, Munoz got confronted by 5 mistresses who each have had a beautiful daughter all of whom are named the same name, 'Juanes'. All five daughters came to live with Munoz and las cinco Juanes cause all sorts of trouble. Eventually Munoz is hit by a car driven by one of his daughters and he claims he remembers nothing of the affairs.

Olivia was riding a bus which had an accident, Olivia jumped out and helped a wealthy woman who was hit and injured, in kindness in return the woman makes Olivia the co-president along with Munoz of the woman's huge company. Chaos ensures when Olivia and Munoz fight over who takes charge of the corporation.

Or I am confusing this story with my favorite telenovela?

ArroyoTaxi - 5-19-2009 at 06:41 PM

I think it might be time for this thread to get its own category. I have some suggestions for the title:
1) General Baja ******baggery
2) Baja Questions and ******bags
3) Baja ****** Reports
4) Baja Bags of ****** Reviews
Obviously, these are just ideas and the whole concept could evolve.

24baja - 5-19-2009 at 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ArroyoTaxi
I think it might be time for this thread to get its own category. I have some suggestions for the title:
1) General Baja ******baggery
2) Baja Questions and ******bags
3) Baja ****** Reports
4) Baja Bags of ****** Reviews
Obviously, these are just ideas and the whole concept could evolve.

How about "As Mulege Turns" or "Have Drugs will Travel".
This is tooooo much.

Bajaboy - 5-19-2009 at 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajaboy

Quote:

Originally posted by arrowhead
LOL, ignore the message. Shoot the messenger.

This board is a real brain trust.

Your credentials, please?

Well if the messenger is telling BS, why yes, shoot the messenger :bounce:

rpleger - 5-19-2009 at 07:20 PM

Mulegé is a slow beach town in Baja where nothing exciting ever happens...

ramuma53 - 5-19-2009 at 11:48 PM

KAT54
The Edijo rented land to Mike an American.
No, the Ejido rented some land to Olivia a Mexican

Munoz says Mike was a drug runner flying drugs from the mainland to baja then north to the USA.
Sorry I did not say that, Arrowhead said it but I know from other sources it is right, they were bringing it in shoe boxes.
Mike built the hotel with drug money.
No, an Italian couple, Roberto and Franca Meloni rented the land from me and built the hotel, Olivia or Mike did not put a penny, he just charged Roberto for the labor.
Mike sold the hotel to an Italian gay couple.
Roberto and Franca Meloni are Italian but not Gay.

Olivia managed the hotel.
Correct, with a power of attorney as an employee.

The gay couple fired Olivia for stealing funds.
Correct all the way.
Munoz says she was a “coke head” with powder up her nose.
Sorry she was not, she is up to this day, the last I heard she was up 3 days without a bath and completely drunk.
She used the funds from the hotel to get a beach concession in front of the hotel.
Correct, she paid from the Hotel money and the bills are in the Hotel paid bills.
Olivia caught Mike doing “The Wild Monkey” with a 16 year old on the bar in the restaurant.
Correct all the way but at that time she was 15 years old.
Mikes girlfriend was the daughter of a well know realtor in the Mulege area.
Olivia kicked Mike out.
For What I know he walked on her because of obvious problems.
Mike flew away with his young girlfriend never to be heard of again.
He is still in Sinaloa, some said he died but other people said he are in contact with him and still a drug runner.
Mike is either dead from a plane crash or living with his young wife.
Right.
Olivia hires a “young drifter” Mark (Narc) to work the bar.
Right, a very ambitious and coward drifter who owns a lot of money in California for child support.
Narc is younger than Olivia.
About 15 years, she is 55 years old and he is about 40.
Soon Olivia and Narc are doing “The Wild Monkey” on the bar.
Correct.
Want to eat there?
No.
About 10 years ago, Munoz shows up with a land title.
I own it since 1972, I rented to Meloni in 1994, my title was issued in 1987 and corrected in 1994.
Edijo does not fight the title.
Olivia started an Agrarian Trial, the Ejido supported her, then they found out that they had agreed to my boundaries in 1985 and dropped their claims against me and only Olivia’s Claim Against Stan Valentine, Thad, Mr. Murphy and other Americans, trying to collect form them a lot of money for renting from her my property.
Munoz says he filed for the property in 1971 when he was 20 years old.
There are official papers to prove it, just check www.munoz-industries.com/vaquera.html
He gives $50k to the gay couple and takes over management the hotel.
Wrong, I paid Mr. Roberto and Franca Meloni what they had expended in the building and they went back to Italy, but they are still my friends and are in constant contact.
Where did Munoz get $50k?
My other legal businesses, like ABC Newspaper in Baja, Playa Encantada and Inmobiliaria Real de Mexico S.A. de C.V. in Rosarito Beach, Metaldynamics in Tijuana and an Ingeniering tophography firm in Tijuana plus other smaller businesses.
Olivia and Narc say the money comes from drug trafficking.
False and I am well investigated by the Federal Police since I was a Senate Candidate in the 2000 National Elections, plus of course a Newspaper owner.
Munoz employees are arrested for drug crimes.
To this day no employee of mine has been in jail while my employee, I cannot guarantee that in the past they may have been, but I guarantee that if any of them has anything to do with anything illegal today, they will be fired at once.
Munoz says he knows this but cannot do anything about his employee’s actions.
That is true, I can only fire them.
Narc says their picture is at an Army checkpoint in Loreto.
False I checked and there is no picture of any of my employees there.
Munoz says Olivia and Narc are using the beach for drug trafficking.
Don’t ask me, ask the Marines and the Army, they have been raiding her place for moths day and night, last time two intelligence officer were able to see the whole landing at 3:30 AM just at her house.
He says they receive boatloads of drugs all the time at 3AM.
About every 15 to 30 days for years, we have seen the lights and movements and truck loading and the next day visit from several police cars to collect.
No one has seen this except Munoz.
Sorry, but Intelligence officers have been there and all my employees and guests.
He made a tape but no one has seen it.
I amsure it will come up on her trial, I saw them filming only.
Narc and Olivia never get caught.
They have been caught 9 times, but always manage to not being prosecuted, the criminal trials are all with the district attorney and I mean for 6 to 8 years without going to the judge.
One time, there is a “fight” in the restaurant where Munoz
says Narc almost killed another American.
They are being prosecuted for this crime, one of their employees have been sentenced for this crime but never went to jail for it, they just forgot to ask him to serve the jail sentence to this day.
His employees saved this guy before
Narc and Olivia could drownd him in the ocean.
They trew Jimmy Rusell in the water, they thought he was dead but came back and told the whole story to the police including that Mark hit him with a machete and Olivia asked him to kill him, all that is on the police records.
Olivia is seen yelling “Narc, kill him”
Yes, several witnesses declared tat before the police.
Munoz says he “pounded” Narc one time when Narc confronted him.
Yes and since then he runs every time I catch him in my property.
Munoz is a “karate” champion.
I was when I was young, Mexico’s university national champion plus 18 other full contact trophies.
Like Chuck Norris.
He was Long Beach tournament champion; I was never even close to that level, the best I did in that tournament was, I believe 24th.
Recently, Olivia gets “P-nched” for selling turtle soup.
Yes and there are new witnesses who say she was selling the turtle serving dish for $100 dlls. And there were about 20 people waiting but some were already served; when she saw the marines, she tried to dump the whole pot, but was caught by a marine and prevented her from dumping it.
Munoz knows about this before it happens.
No, I was not there, I was in La Paz, but I knew just hours after it happened and have kept a close watch on what is happening.
Looks like a “setup”.
Looks but it was not, since she was fingered by the people who sold her the Turtle, the other lady who was caught but left alone in exchange for telling them who was buying it from her, she was caught with another full turtle pot but left alone after fingering Olivia.
Authorities were called a week before it happened.
Authorities knew where the Turtle dishes are served every year and were waiting for her, they had orders for the Hotel, the restaurant, Requeson fisherman house and a place on San Carlos; the officers came from Sinaloa for the area raids. Olivia serve Turtle to all her special guests every year, several of whom are my usual guests.
Olivia is released on bail.
I believe $44,000 pesos, said by Narc.
Munoz says Narc and Olivia will be arrested next week.
I believe they will be brought to trial this week or early the next one, since they cannot be released on bail, they will be arrested.
How does he know?
I know the legal procedure and we are pressing so there is no corruption in the process.
People that rent houses on the beach are moving out.
Mr. Thad Braxton and Stan Valentine and others are still there, the other 2 moved out because of Olivia’s lawsuits and they didn’t want or couldn’t pay for their legal defense.

ramuma53 - 5-19-2009 at 11:54 PM

ArroyoTaxi and 24baja
maybe for you it is a telenovela, but turtle killings are not a telenovela, also drugs are beng shipped to America and killing kids every day and I don't see that qualify as a telenovela.
Why dont you say something about those problems and how do you propose to solve them??????
Of course you are just kidding around.

ramuma53 - 5-19-2009 at 11:59 PM

Bajaboy
The mesager Arrowhead was not kind to me, but it is clear he don't know the hotel story or mine, but he know some old facts from Mike George and Olivia that are true for what I know, let him say it and maybe others that I know here will have the valor to say what they know too.
Some others have told me similar sotries but asked me not to quote them here, it have to be done by themselves sooner or latter.

This Thread has Jumped The Shark

ArroyoTaxi - 5-20-2009 at 08:17 AM

Obviously this drama has consumed the lives of all involved, but this thread is getting a little shopworn and I think you might be losing your audience. Watching 2 kids fighting on a playground is only entertaining to a point. Despite the drugs, sex, turtle killings, gays, machetes, raids, military, Boxing Kangaroos, lawsuits, documents , Brad Pitt, etc... it has turned into a snoozer. All I'm suggesting is that you all take it to your own forum, or (and I know this is going to sound CRAZY) keep this in the courts. Best of luck to all involved.

arrowhead - 5-20-2009 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ramuma53
Bajaboy
The mesager Arrowhead was not kind to me, but it is clear he don't know the hotel story or mine, but he know some old facts from Mike George and Olivia that are true...

Now, now Ramon. You said on this very message thread that your wife was "Sandra Munoz", verdad? A professor in TJ, verdad? A graduate of the University of Phoenix, verdad?

http://www.megafriends.com/profile.php?id=7482258&rid=mf...

Sabe mas el diablo por viejo que por diablo.

24baja - 5-20-2009 at 10:18 AM

interesting link arrowhead, where did you come up with that?

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