BajaNomad - Arizonas new Imigration Bill(This has turned into a Rat Hole)

Arizonas new Imigration Bill(This has turned into a Rat Hole)

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Mexicorn - 5-3-2010 at 12:34 PM

Same to you fellow Nomad.

Cypress - 5-3-2010 at 12:36 PM

monoloco, Me either, but it seems to be that polarization is the name of the game. The weather here's sorta iffy. :biggrin:

monoloco - 5-3-2010 at 12:59 PM

I'd say on a 1-10 scale we're looking at a 9 here.

DENNIS - 5-3-2010 at 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco
I don't know why this has to be a liberal vs. conservative issue. I don't believe anyone thinks that illegal immigration is a good thing. The question is should we deal with it in scattered and reactionary ways or do we try to come up with logical and effective reform that works for businesses that need imported labor and is fair and streamlined for foreign workers. It seems like both political parties and certain media outlets would rather this be a polarizing issue to gain political advantage or to gain market share. This is something that could have been dealt with long ago if it hadn't been more expedient to use the issue as a political football.

The federal government, for reasons of their own, have made the decision on numerous occasions to do absolutly nothing about the problem. They have forced the most affected states to do their job for them.
The problem now will be to see how lame the feds can react to this. If they do their usual nothing, that could be seen as tacit approval for states to assume the burden of enforcement and cost.

What a bunch of chiittt. Congress is more concerned about that wasteland Afghanistan than the USA.

Our government is the enemy.

monoloco - 5-3-2010 at 01:17 PM

I agree with you Dennis, it really is a shame that congress would rather hold us hostage on this issue to advance their political careers than come up with some common sense legislation that would improve the situation.

tripledigitken - 5-3-2010 at 01:25 PM

The Mexican population in the US is a huge voting block. Add to that the left and you have a huge block that Obama will not want to alienate. Bush courted the mexican vote and previous Democratics as well.

I'm not holding my breath for the Fed's to resolve this issue anytime soon. It will in all likelyhood be the states problem as it has been.

Ken

wessongroup - 5-3-2010 at 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
The Mexican population in the US is a huge voting block. Add to that the left and you have a huge block that Obama will not want to alienate. Bush courted the mexican vote and previous Democratics as well.

I'm not holding my breath for the Fed's to resolve this issue anytime soon. It will in all likelyhood be the states problem as it has been.

Ken

Spot on...

wessongroup - 5-3-2010 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
I just got back from a 3 week Baja trip and wrote a couple of posts (which JESSE replied to above) that I subsequently deleted after reading the first half of this thread because my points had been already discussed. One point that I didn't see discussed follows.

Perhaps a year ago I saw on a local San Diego newscast a city official saying he didn't want San Diego police enforcing federal immigration laws because by doing so they would lose the trust of the Mexican population, and that would be detrimental to the performance of their job.

For example, let's say that there is a serial rapist or child molester terrorizing a Mexican neighborhood. If the people were afraid of getting deported they wouldn't come forward to report the crimes or present evidence/information they may have. If, on the other hand, they knew that San Diego cops would not ask about citizenship, they would be more likely to participate in the apprehension of criminal and have a generally better relationship with the cops on the beat.

I thought it was a good point.

Think about it. The nice hardworking Mexican family down the street. Dad has been here illegally for 10 years working construction jobs, the rest of the family is legal. Are they now targets for criminals? If they call the police Dad will be arrested/deported. Probably best to not report the child molestation.

[Edited on 5-3-2010 by k-rico]

We all know if this were to occur, it would be taken care of much like it does in prison... and I might be wrong.. but, most in LE.. view the immigration issue in perspective based on the paticular situation..

If one asks if a Law is to be enforced, LE have but one option, yes.. as it is there job to enforce the laws which are on the books

The real problem arises when a law is not enforced, if a Law and it's regulations are not enforced ........ a law that is not enforceable or is invalid can never be changed if not put to the real test.. "in field application"... all the talk is just that.. in the field we find out if it works, if not it needs to be changed..

Can't fix it, if you don't know what is broke...

speaking of back's

capt. mike - 5-3-2010 at 02:40 PM

Barry O'Drama used immigration reform as a lure for the hispanic voting block, and he PROMISED it would have a high priority. So much for lips a flappin' and Jive a talkin'

Guess he thinks he's still in a Chicago Barrio workin' the community activist belt.
well....now he has peed them off royally stating it has to go on the back burner. Too many other issues like how he can continue to loot the US treasury and creat debt levels heretofore never seen. Now at 5.7 Trillion - with a T!

Yeah...November....it's a coming...HAHAHA.

SIGNED a Cracker from inside a cracker jax box.

ID Please

MrBillM - 5-3-2010 at 03:10 PM

In India they even require Photo IDs for their Cows.

Of course, that isn't working either.

mtgoat666 - 5-3-2010 at 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
The federal government, for reasons of their own, have made the decision on numerous occasions to do absolutly nothing about the problem. They have forced the most affected states to do their job for them.
The problem now will be to see how lame the feds can react to this. If they do their usual nothing, that could be seen as tacit approval for states to assume the burden of enforcement and cost.

What a bunch of chiittt. Congress is more concerned about that wasteland Afghanistan than the USA.

Our government is the enemy.

comrade:
have you seen all the money they have been spending on the mex border? walls, walls and more walls. hundreds of miles. and border patrol agents and sensors all over the place.
next time you sober up, take a drive along the border and report back here (prefer you file your report before you unsober).

your tax dollars at work!

wessongroup - 5-3-2010 at 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
In India they even require Photo IDs for their Cows.

Of course, that isn't working either.

Bajahowodd - 5-3-2010 at 03:43 PM

Hey, capt. mike. Not so sure anyone should be blaming Obama on this one. It was congress that blew it. Repeatedly. Even the newly reborn redneck John McCain certainly can't deny that he sponsored comprehensive immigration reform in a bill he co-authored with Ted Kennedy, that had GWB's support. The senate wouldn't even allow it to come up for debate, despite the fact that the House had already approved a similar bill. And actually, it's really not a right v left or Republicans v Democrat thing. Members of congress on both sides of the aisle, who come from urbanized states that have large immigrant populations are inherently for such legislation. It's those who come from states where it appears that immigrants are someone else's problem, who continually block the efforts.

capt. mike - 5-3-2010 at 03:58 PM

Howodd - you are spot on, can't give a sidebar to that.
but - i do enjoy slamming the O'Bam-meister any chance i can cause he is such a poser. :biggrin:

Bajahowodd - 5-3-2010 at 04:19 PM

Let's play the "fair and balanced game" GWB has an education from both Harvard and Yale. He grew up in privilege. When he first ran for office in Texas, he lost because he was consider an outsider. So, the answer was to dumb himself down so he would appeal to the hick vote. It worked. And when he ran for president. he only lost the popular vote by a smidge more than half a million votes.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bush/

DENNIS - 5-3-2010 at 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
comrade:
have you seen all the money they have been spending on the mex border? walls, walls and more walls. hundreds of miles. and border patrol agents and sensors all over the place.
next time you sober up, take a drive along the border and report back here (prefer you file your report before you unsober).

your tax dollars at work!

Where is that wall you speak of? Show me fifty feet of it that isn't connected to the Port Of Entry.

Since you insist on doing your Karl Marx lookalike thing, you should have your ducks in a row...unless you fed all your ducks to the poor people. Leaves room for those filets you hipocrites enjoy so much.

What a bunch of frauds you Libs are. Seems your rank-and-file is filled by those who have it all and want to give away everything I have and those others who think they're entitled to it.
Get your minions a job and quit teaching them to blood-suck.

Solving Problems One by One

MrBillM - 5-4-2010 at 10:02 AM

How about this ?

Taking a thought from the Indian Cow ID program:

They chose Photo IDs (for different reasons) because Branding or Ear Tagging was considered improper for their Holy Bovines.

We, however, could adopt a program of (say) "Voluntary" Ear-Bobbing to those illegals we give the choice of repatriation over deportation. Branding would probably be easier to camouflage.

If nothing else, it "might" make for easier identification of repeaters. Worth a try, don't you think ?

durrelllrobert - 5-4-2010 at 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
It is so sad when people are not free to speak their ideas and interact without the slams and negative comments.

.... I have had Democrat friends and girlfriends .......

On a positive note, it is good to see that you can seperate your Democratic friends and your (unspecified) girlfriends :biggrin:

Bajahowodd - 5-4-2010 at 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by durrelllrobert

Quote:

On a positive note, it is good to see that you can seperate your Democratic friends and your (unspecified) girlfriends :biggrin:

Happen to notice that it was stated in past tense?? :lol:

durrelllrobert - 5-4-2010 at 10:41 AM

Quote:

In all honesty It does not get more Racist than this!

Racist with a capital R :?:

Why

monoloco - 5-4-2010 at 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
How about this ?

Taking a thought from the Indian Cow ID program:

They chose Photo IDs (for different reasons) because Branding or Ear Tagging was considered improper for their Holy Bovines.

We, however, could adopt a program of (say) "Voluntary" Ear-Bobbing to those illegals we give the choice of repatriation over deportation. Branding would probably be easier to camouflage.

If nothing else, it "might" make for easier identification of repeaters. Worth a try, don't you think ?

Maybe another ear notch every time they are picked up for being in the country illegally. That would be easier than the national ID card. I'm sure the Teabaggers would lend their support to the idea.

mtgoat666 - 5-4-2010 at 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
Where is that wall you speak of? Show me fifty feet of it that isn't connected to the Port Of Entry.

show it to yourself,... are you blind?

Republican San Diego City Council opposes zonie gestapo law

mtgoat666 - 5-4-2010 at 03:02 PM

San Diego opposes Arizona immigration law
By The Associated Press

Monday, May 3, 2010 at 8:21 p.m.

SAN DIEGO — The San Diego City Council has voted to formally oppose the new immigration law passed in Arizona.

The City Council voted 7-1 Monday in favor of a resolution to urge Arizona lawmakers to repeal the law.

Arizona's law requires local police to question people suspected of being in the country illegally.

The council's resolution states that the law encourages racial profiling and violates the Constitution.

Councilman Todd Gloria says the law is "fundamentally un-American."

[Edited on 5-4-2010 by mtgoat666]

Cypress - 5-4-2010 at 03:12 PM

It's un-American to support the defence of your borders?

wessongroup - 5-4-2010 at 03:26 PM

Kinda like this?

In 1937 California passed an "Anti-Okie Law," making it a misdemeanor to "bring or assist in bringing" any indigent person into that state. The law was later declared unconstitutional, but the bias remained. There are those who, like Will Rogers, believed that the migration of "Okies" to California raised the intellectual level of both states. In many western states "Okie" continues to be used as a derogatory term. In Arizona an "Okie" is a person with "a pee-stained mattress on top of his car," and an "Okie credit card" is a siphon hose and gas can. In other states an "Okie" is a calf of the lowest quality run through an auction ring.

It's always been this way... to bad Okie's weren't a "race" .... as it the same type of issue.. WORK

bajaguy - 5-4-2010 at 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
San Diego opposes Arizona immigration law
By The Associated Press

Monday, May 3, 2010 at 8:21 p.m.

SAN DIEGO — The San Diego City Council has voted to formally oppose the new immigration law passed in Arizona.

The City Council voted 7-1 Monday in favor of a resolution to urge Arizona lawmakers to repeal the law.

Arizona's law requires local police to question people suspected of being in the country illegally.

The council's resolution states that the law encourages racial profiling and violates the Constitution.

Councilman Todd Gloria says the law is "fundamentally un-American."

[Edited on 5-4-2010 by mtgoat666]

Arizona's law requires local police to question people suspected of being in the country illegally.

..............No, it does not

The council's resolution states that the law encourages racial profiling........

Again, it does not

........and violates the Constitution.

I did not know that the US Supreme court granted the San Diego City Council the authority to determine violations of the US Constitution.

tripledigitken - 5-4-2010 at 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaguy

Quote:

In their political zeal they must of forgot how much tourist dollars come from AZ to San Diego. Boycotts swing both ways!

Bajahowodd - 5-4-2010 at 03:46 PM

The AZ law isn't strictly about defending the border, and that's why all the hoopla. One may correctly argue that the federal gummint has the sole responsibility to defend the nation's borders, and has failed to do so. One might also research just why it is that it hasn't. Obama is for a comprehensive reform. Bush was, also. Even some very high profile members of congress are for reform. Just look to 2008 and the McCain/ Kennedy bill, that was also supported by a number of big state senators including Feinstein. My guess is that businesses have lobbied behind the scenes to prevent such a bill from ever seeing the light of day, lest it affect their cheap labor pool. The representatives and senators who prevented comprehensive reform mostly come from states that have no dog in the fight; states where the immigrant population, let alone the illegal immigrant population neither is very large nor greatly affect commerce. But, inasmuch as each state has an equal number of senators, the bill got bottled-up and never made it to debate on the senate floor.

The two major issues with the AZ law which is the product of frustration are that constitutionally, the responsibility for border enforcement rests with Washington. Second, the AZ law makes it extremely likely that racial profiling will occur, which would be a clear violation of the equal protection clause of the constitution.

mtgoat666 - 5-4-2010 at 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
In Arizona an "Okie" is a person with "a pee-stained mattress on top of his car,"

sounds like most of the zonie crackers (and their california breatheren) that have been on this thread telling us all about how warm/fuzzy is the az show-me-your-papers law :lol:

DENNIS - 5-4-2010 at 04:01 PM

Quote:

What kind of butt-kissing gesture is this? Maybe they should spend a little more time dragging San Diego away from the edge of bankruptcy and filling some potholes and less time worrying about what Arizona is doing.

bajaguy - 5-4-2010 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

amen, brother

Bajahowodd - 5-4-2010 at 04:19 PM

I think it's called pandering to the legal, registered voter Hispanic community. But what do I know? :?:

Phoenix Suns think you crackers are fruit loops

mtgoat666 - 5-4-2010 at 04:26 PM

From CNN Political Producer Shannon Travis

The Phoenix Suns will wear special basketball jerseys emblazoned with the words 'Los Suns' Wednesday night.

Washington (CNN) – Anger over Arizona's controversial immigration law is entering a new arena. The sports arena, to be precise.

The Phoenix Suns will wear special basketball jerseys in Game Two of their Western Conference Playoff Series on Wednesday against the San Antonio Spurs. The jerseys will be emblazoned with the words, "Los Suns."

Team officials decided to express their frustration with the new law in conjunction with Wednesday's celebration of Mexican heritage on the Cinco de Mayo holiday.

wessongroup - 5-4-2010 at 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
In Arizona an "Okie" is a person with "a pee-stained mattress on top of his car,"

sounds like most of the zonie crackers (and their california breatheren) that have been on this thread telling us all about how warm/fuzzy is the az show-me-your-papers law :lol:

was an attempt to show that "race" has nothing to do with men and women looking for work.... in this example these were white American's who were discriminated against ... just because they did not have jobs or anything else they were just really poor people trying to get by ... much the same as Mexicans ... as that is why they migrated and/or migrate ... to get work and a better life for themselves and/or their families ... legally or illegally: internationally, and/or between States

some have relatives who went through the depression, not sure they have the same feeling about the situation these people faced, with dignity and courage ... enough so, that John Steinbeck wrote a book and received a Noble Peace Prize along with Pulitzer Prize for the book "The Grapes of Wrath".. which was made into a movie by John Ford the director.. for which Mr. Ford won an Oscar.

Poor folks don't have the means to keep up with the jones.. they have a hard enough time just getting enough to eat and a place to sleep.. soiled mattress and all...

goat.. didn't think you go after the poor and helpless .... they can't defend themselves...

if your comment is intended to light a fire under the other side.. then I can understand it .. other than that... no... keep your punches up..

DENNIS - 5-4-2010 at 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

The Phoenix Suns will wear special basketball jerseys in Game Two of their Western Conference Playoff Series on Wednesday against the San Antonio Spurs. The jerseys will be emblazoned with the words, "Los Suns."

Who could possibly care what these iliterates wear? The freaks on the court won't understand the symbolism anyway.

tripledigitken - 5-4-2010 at 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
From CNN Political Producer Shannon Travis

The Phoenix Suns will wear special basketball jerseys emblazoned with the words 'Los Suns' Wednesday night.

Washington (CNN) – Anger over Arizona's controversial immigration law is entering a new arena. The sports arena, to be precise.

The Phoenix Suns will wear special basketball jerseys in Game Two of their Western Conference Playoff Series on Wednesday against the San Antonio Spurs. The jerseys will be emblazoned with the words, "Los Suns."

Team officials decided to express their frustration with the new law in conjunction with Wednesday's celebration of Mexican heritage on the Cinco de Mayo holiday.

And what role models the Basketball Fraternity is. Goat your hillarious.
:lol:

Cypress - 5-4-2010 at 04:53 PM

Its funny to make jokes of poor people? Only if you're a liberal. There's always a crew of cheerleaders on the sidelines and you can have a group hug.

Bajahowodd - 5-4-2010 at 05:45 PM

It's becoming clearer. And sadder. Oh well.

mtgoat666 - 5-4-2010 at 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
goat.. didn't think you go after the poor and helpless .... they can't defend themselves...

just going after you crackers (that's poor, uneducated white racists, in case you don't know definition, you cracker)
:lol:

i appreciate that y'all are memorializing your racist comments here for all to read -- like lifting up a rock and watching the earwigs squirm

Packoderm - 5-4-2010 at 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by wessongroup
goat.. didn't think you go after the poor and helpless .... they can't defend themselves...

just going after you crackers (that's poor, uneducated white racists, in case you don't know definition, you cracker)
:lol:

i appreciate that y'all are memorializing your racist comments here for all to read -- like lifting up a rock and watching the earwigs squirm

Racist=bad, cracker=? You're contradicting yourself, and you seem to be making very little in the way of an argument that supports your cause. You are using neocon tactics.

Mexicorn - 5-4-2010 at 08:21 PM

Guy's I think it's time to put this Subject to bed.
I really want to take the high road here and ask the administrator to lock this Subject since it has become very degrading to read no matter where you stand on the subject.

comitan - 5-4-2010 at 08:26 PM

wessongroup - 5-4-2010 at 08:29 PM

goat1 doesn't get to this side to often... glad all are getting an upfront close view of what this individual considers as normal conversation.. a pity, no... rather it brings out the true feelings of one... just that mine don't go where goat1 does...

Pescador - 5-4-2010 at 08:59 PM

I just got the e-mail from a political forumn. Right straight from the horses mouth.

Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen

I'm Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen. I want to explain SB 1070 which I
voted for and was just signed by Governor Jan Brewer.
Rancher Rob Krantz was murdered by the drug cartel on his ranch a month ago.
I participated in a senate hearing two weeks ago on the border violence,
here is just some of the highlights from those who testified.
The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have
for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily
invasion of humans who cross their property . One Rancher testified that 300
to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property,
stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving
trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran
bibles.
Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a
military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile
behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs,
behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they
will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard
that day that talked about the drug trains.
One man told of two illegal's who came upon his property one shot in the
back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to
carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the
night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can't
leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.
The border patrol is not on the border. They have set up 60 miles away with
check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. They are not allowed to
use force in stopping anyone who is entering. They run around chasing them,
if they get their hands on them then they can take them back across the
border.
Federal prisons have over 35% illegal's and 20% of Arizona prisons are
filled with illegal's. In the last few years 80% of our law enforcement that
have been killed or wounded have been by an illegal.
The majority of people coming now are people we need to be worried about.
The ranchers told us that they have seen a change in the people coming they
are not just those who are looking for work and a better life.
The Federal Government has refused for years to do anything to help the
border states . We have been over run and once they are here we have the
burden of funding state services that they use. Education cost have been
over a billion dollars. The healthcare cost billions of dollars. Our State
is broke, $3.5 billion deficit and we have many serious decisions to make.
One is that we do not have the money to care for any who are not here
legally. It has to stop.
The border can be secured. We have the technology we have the ability to
stop this invasion. We must know who is coming and they must come in an
organized manner legally so that we can assimilate them into our population
and protect the sovereignty of our country. We are a nation of laws. We have
a responsibility to protect our citizens and to protect the integrity of our
country and the government which we live under.
I would give amnesty today to many, but here is the problem, we dare not do
this until the Border is secure. It will do no good to forgive them because
thousands will come behind them and we will be over run to the point that
there will no longer be the United States of America but a North American
Union of open borders. I ask you what form of government will we live under?
How long will it be before we will be just like Mexico , Canada or any of
the other Central American or South American countries? We have already lost
our language, everything must be printed in Spanish also. We have already
lost our history it is no longer taught in our schools. And we have lost our
borders.
The leftist media has distorted what SB 1070 will do. It is not going to set
up a N-zi Germany . Are you kidding. The ACLU and the leftist courts will do
everything to protect those who are here illegally, but it was an effort to
try and stop illegal's from setting up businesses, and employment, and
receiving state services and give the ability to local law enforcement when
there is probable cause like a traffic stop to determine if they are here
legally. Federal law is very clear if you are here on a visa you must have
your papers on you at all times. That is the law. In Arizona all you need to
show you are a legal citizen is a driver license, MVD identification card,
Native American Card, or a Military ID. This is what you need to vote, get a
hunting license, etc.. So nothing new has been added to this law. No one is
going to be stopped walking down the street etc... The Socialist who are in
power in DC are angry because we dare try and do something and that
something the Socialist wants us to do is just let them come. They want the
"Transformation" to continue.
Maybe it is too late to save America . Maybe we are not worthy of freedom
anymore. But as an elected official I must try to do what I can to protect
our Constitutional Republic . Living in America is not a right just because
you can walk across the border. Being an American is a responsibility and it
comes by respecting and upholding the Constitution the law of our land which
says what you must do to be a citizen of this country. Freedom is not free.

Packoderm - 5-5-2010 at 12:03 AM

The vitriol she throws into her letter is enough to nullify the sensible material. Therefore, she's speaking only to her base.

irenemm - 5-5-2010 at 12:09 AM

Very well said Senator.

k-rico - 5-5-2010 at 12:39 AM

An old adage comes to mind. "Don't believe everything you read."

I have reasonable cause to think it was not written by a state senator but by a poorly educated person. I demand to see the writer's high school diploma.

"two Koran bibles" ??? That's like "two Chevy Fords".

The English is terrible.

Many statements are nonsense.

If a state senator wrote that then Arizona needs to pass another law that requires candidates for political office pass a literacy test and carry the certificate of completion with them at all times.

It has to be a sophisticated document. If not the document forgers who are steaming into Arizona now to meet the demand will just produce fake certificates.

[Edited on 5-5-2010 by k-rico]

k-rico - 5-5-2010 at 02:02 AM

Experts split on economic toll of illegal immigrants

oxxo - 5-5-2010 at 06:06 AM

I had an interesting conversation last night.

My gringo neighbors invited me over for dinner last night. They live half time in Los Cabos and half time in Colorado. The evening discussion turned to the subject of Arizona's immigration law. They are 100% in favor of it. I said that I did not support illegal immigration but that I did not support the US business community hiring illegal laborers either. At that point they admitted they hired an undocumented Hispanic full time domestic help at their home in Colorado. That puzzled me, so I asked them why. They said because they could pay them less, it was cheaper. They said they couldn't find any gringo or legal immigrant who was willing to work for the amount they were willing to pay.

The conversation then turned to their complaining about how illegal Mexicans were getting free services in the schools, hospitals, and other public facilities (all the arguments presented in this thread). I said why, they pay taxes too. They said no they don't, they are paid with cash under the table. I asked if they paid in cash, they said yes because the employee had no Social Security number. I said they could get a SS card. They said no, they didn't want them to get a card. Why? Because then they would have to pay taxes and it wouldn't be cheap labor anymore. This was now becoming a circular argument!

At this point, I could see it was best to change the conversation to a different topic. But the evening still leaves me perplexed. Some gringos are a major part of the illegal immigration problem and don't seem to care as long as their self-interests are met.

Packoderm - 5-5-2010 at 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
An old adage comes to mind. "Don't believe everything you read."

I have reasonable cause to think it was not written by a state senator but by a poorly educated person. I demand to see the writer's high school diploma.

"two Koran bibles" ??? That's like "two Chevy Fords".

The English is terrible.

Many statements are nonsense.

If a state senator wrote that then Arizona needs to pass another law that requires candidates for political office pass a literacy test and carry the certificate of completion with them at all times.

It has to be a sophisticated document. If not the document forgers who are steaming into Arizona now to meet the demand will just produce fake certificates.

[Edited on 5-5-2010 by k-rico]

I was thinking the same thing, but in this age of Sarah Palin you never know.

Charlie Daniels weighs in...

capt. mike - 5-5-2010 at 07:14 AM

I don't know how everybody else feels about it, but to me I
think Hispanic people in this country, legally or illegally,
made a huge public relations mistake with their recent demonstrations.

I don't blame anybody in the world for wanting to come to the
United States of America , as it is a truly wonderful place.

But when the first thing you do when you set foot on American soil is illegal it is flat out wrong and I don't care how many lala land left heads come out of the woodwork and start trying
to give me sensitivity lessons.

I don't need sensitivity lessons, in fact I don't have any-thing against Mexicans! I just have something against criminals and anybody who comes into this country illegally is a criminal
and if you don't believe it try coming into America from a foreign country without a passport and see how far you get. What disturbs me about the demonstrations is that it's tanta-mount to saying, "I am going to come into your country even if it means breaking your laws and there's nothing you can do about it."

It's an "in your face" action and speaking just for me, I don't like it one little bit and if there were a half dozen pairs of gonads in Washington bigger than English peas it wouldn't be happening.

Where are you, you bunch of lily livered, pantywaist, forked tongued, sorry excuses for defenders of The Constitution? Have you been drinking the water out of the Potomac again?
And even if you pass a bill on immigration it will probably be so pork laden and watered down that it won't mean anything anyway Besides, what good is another law going to do when you
won't enforce the ones on the books now?

And what ever happened to the polls, guys? I thought you folks were the quintessential finger wetters. Well you sure ain't paying any attention to the polls this time because somewhere around eighty percent of Americans want some thing done about this mess, and mess it is and getting bigger everyday.

This is no longer a problem, it is a dilemma and headed for being a tragedy. Do you honestly think that what happened in France with the Muslims can't happen here when the businesses who hire these people finally run out of jobs and a few million disillusioned Hispanics take to the streets?

If you, Mr. President, Congressmen and Senators, knuckle under on this and refuse to do something meaningful it means that you care nothing for the kind of country your children and grand-children will inherit. But I guess that doesn't matter as long as you get re-elected. Shame on you. One of the big problems in America today is that if you have the nerve to say anything derogatory about any group of people (except Christians) you are going to be screamed at by the media and called a racist, a bigot and anything else they can think of to call you

Well I've been pounded by the media before and I'm still rockin' and rollin' and when it comes to speaking the truth I fear not.
And the truth is that the gutless, gonadless, milksop politicians are just about to sell out the United States of America because they don't have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to face reality.

And reality is that we would never allow any other group of people to have 12 million illegal in this country and turn around and say, "Oh it's ok, ya'll can stay here if you'll just allow us to slap your wrist."

And I know that some of you who read this column are saying "Well what's wrong with that?" I'll tell you what's wrong with it. These people could be from Mars as far as we know. We don't know who they are, where they are or what they're up to and the way the Congress is going we're not going to.

Does this make sense? Labor force you say? We already subsidize corporate agriculture as it is, must we subsidize their labor as well? If these people were from Haiti would we be so fast to turn a blind eye to them or if they were from Somalia or Afghanistan ? I think not.

All the media shows us are pictures of hard working Hispanics who have crossed the border just to try to better their life.
They don't show you pictures of the Feds rounding up members of MS 13, the violent gang who came across the same way the decent folks did. They don't tell you about the living conditions of the Mexican illegal some fat cat hired to pick his crop.

I want to make two predictions.

No. 1: This situation is going to grow and fester until it erupts in violence on our streets while the wimps in Washington drag their toes in the dirt and try to figure how many tons of political hay they can make to the acre.

No 2: Somebody is going to cross that border with some kind of weapon of mass destruction and set it off in a major American city after which there will be a backlash such as this country has never experienced and the Capitol building in Washington will probably tilt as Congressmen and Senators rush to the other side of the issue.

I don't know about you but I would love to see just one major politician stand up and say, "I don't care who I make mad and I don't care how many votes I lose, this is a desperate situation and I'm going to lead the fight to get it straightened out."
I don't blame anybody for wanting to come to America , but if you don't respect our immigration laws why should you respect any others? And by the way, this is America and our flag has stars and stripes Please get that other one out of my face.

The Goat after a lawless immigration support rally.

The Goat.jpg - 31kB

oldlady - 5-5-2010 at 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
If a state senator wrote that then Arizona needs to pass another law that requires candidates for political office pass a literacy test and carry the certificate of completion with them at all times.

[Edited on 5-5-2010 by k-rico]

Why limit it to Arizona? It's a good idea, probably problematic to get it passed amd enforced.

[Edited on 5-5-2010 by oldlady]

mtgoat666 - 5-5-2010 at 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oxxo
I said why, they pay taxes too. They said no they don't, they are paid with cash under the table. I asked if they paid in cash, they said yes because the employee had no Social Security number.

they pay sales taxes, a regressive tax that hits low income people relatively heavily, so often paying up to 9% of their salary in taxes.

they are a part of the economy, they are consumers, they get paid and they spend money, all contributions to economy.

some use false SS #s and employers pay payroll taxes on thes people.

also, wealthier people get advantage of off-the-books labor, so why is it bad if those wealthy people pay additional taxes due to their taking advantage of off-the-books labor?

oldlady - 5-5-2010 at 08:22 AM

Another convoluted, inaccurate, fallacious statement of finance/economic assumptions.

DENNIS - 5-5-2010 at 08:28 AM

CaptMike............Some excellent points. Thanks.

tripledigitken - 5-5-2010 at 08:29 AM

I'll bet the Goat will somehow spin that the VAT (value added tax) that Obama is sure to push for is not regressive though.

Cypress - 5-5-2010 at 08:36 AM

Not even liberals can be that stupid, at some point they must become intentionally deceptive.

k-rico - 5-5-2010 at 08:42 AM

I'll be darned, after further googling it appears that senator Sylvia did write the above words.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/the-cholla-jumps/2010/05/01/state-s...

Hmmmmm

thx - can't take credit for all tho

capt. mike - 5-5-2010 at 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS
CaptMike............Some excellent points. Thanks.

but there was another protest in Phx last night, late afternoon actually - these guys were on break from their illegal jobs waiting their turn to speak at the rally.

[Edited on 5-5-2010 by capt. mike]

image001 (Small) (Custom).jpg - 35kB

monoloco - 5-5-2010 at 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
I'll be darned, after further googling it appears that senator Sylvia did write the above words.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/the-cholla-jumps/2010/05/01/state-s...

Hmmmmm

I want to know where I can get one of those Koran bibles.

tripledigitken - 5-5-2010 at 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by monoloco

Quote:

Originally posted by k-rico
I'll be darned, after further googling it appears that senator Sylvia did write the above words.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/the-cholla-jumps/2010/05/01/state-s...

Hmmmmm

I want to know where I can get one of those Koran bibles.

Don't you mean Quran? :rolleyes:

DENNIS - 5-5-2010 at 09:54 AM

Just got this email:
--------------------

One of Maxine's best!!!

Minorities
We need to show more sympathy for these people.
* They travel miles in the heat.
* They risk their lives crossing a border.
* They don't get paid enough wages.
* They do jobs that others won't do or are afraid to do.
* They live in crowded conditions among a people who speak a different language.
* They rarely see their families, and they face adversity all day ~ every day..

I'm not talking about illegal Mexicans ~ I'm talking about our troops! Doesn't it seem strange that many Democrats and Republicans are willing to lavish all kinds of social benefits on illegals, but don't support our troops?

oxxo - 5-5-2010 at 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666
they pay sales taxes, a regressive tax that hits low income people relatively heavily, so often paying up to 9% of their salary in taxes.

they are a part of the economy, they are consumers, they get paid and they spend money, all contributions to economy.

some use false SS #s and employers pay payroll taxes on thes people.

also, wealthier people get advantage of off-the-books labor, so why is it bad if those wealthy people pay additional taxes due to their taking advantage of off-the-books labor?

I have the same questions too, but I could see that I wasn't going to get any meaningful or perceptive answers from my neighbors.

oxxo - 5-5-2010 at 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripledigitken
I'll bet the Goat will somehow spin that the VAT (value added tax) that Obama is sure to push for is not regressive though.

A VAT is definitely regressive, that's why the wealthy in Mexico love it so much.

I'm sure that any proposal for a VAT in the US will be "tinkered to death" by all political philosophies and socio-economic groups so that their ox is not gored.

Those Illegal CONSUMERS

MrBillM - 5-5-2010 at 10:28 AM

Obviously, as a group, the Illegal Immigrant population does NOT occupy the same status as consumer in our economy. THAT is evident from the Billions in remittance money sent TO Mexico and WHY they have 20 or more living in one-bedroom houses in many areas.

mtgoat666 - 5-5-2010 at 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Obviously, as a group, the Illegal Immigrant population does NOT occupy the same status as consumer in our economy. THAT is evident from the Billions in remittance money sent TO Mexico and WHY they have 20 or more living in one-bedroom houses in many areas.

if they send 30% of income to mexico and you say it is "billions" remitted, then they must spend a bunch more billions lubricating our economy :bounce:

Lubricating or just getting Greased ?

MrBillM - 5-5-2010 at 12:14 PM

Without following the Goat Turds down into the Rat Hole of Statistics which leads in circles and can prove anything we want it to, I would note that it would be unusual for anyone working at those jobs supposedly occupied by the Illegals to have 30 percent disposable income.

IF, according to the Liberals, those (who are legal) are barely scraping by and could not exist without government subsidy, how is it possible that the Illegals are such a net economic boon ?

Of course, when you're living 20 to a room and stealing whatever you can in the neighborhood, your expenses are lower.

Mexitron - 5-5-2010 at 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Without following the Goat Turds down into the Rat Hole of Statistics which leads in circles and can prove anything we want it to, I would note that it would be unusual for anyone working at those jobs supposedly occupied by the Illegals to have 30 percent disposable income.

IF, according to the Liberals, those (who are legal) are barely scraping by and could not exist without government subsidy, how is it possible that the Illegals are such a net economic boon ?

Of course, when you're living 20 to a room and stealing whatever you can in the neighborhood, your expenses are lower.

The most illegals I ever saw in one place was 8 guys sharing a two bedroom apt. and that was in the 80s. Not that "20 per room" doesn't happen but that's a misperception as to be commonplace. They do (or did) live in dirt caves by the strawberry fields in Carlsbad however.
The illegals I've worked in the same company with or lived near have usually been huge consumers of US goods and the biggest complaint they have in their lives is that they don't send enough money home to Mexico. I have not known any of them to steal anything. They would probably return home after working for 6 months or a year if it didn't cost so much to come back...they don't necessarily want to be here full time.

Barry A. - 5-5-2010 at 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mexitron

The most illegals I ever saw in one place was 8 guys sharing a two bedroom apt. and that was in the 80s. Not that "20 per room" doesn't happen but that's a misperception as to be commonplace. They do (or did) live in dirt caves by the strawberry fields in Carlsbad however.
The illegals I've worked in the same company with or lived near have usually been huge consumers of US goods and the biggest complaint they have in their lives is that they don't send enough money home to Mexico. I have not known any of them to steal anything. They would probably return home after working for 6 months or a year if it didn't cost so much to come back...they don't necessarily want to be here full time.

That's a fair comment, Mexitron, and certainly true of most, but not all, illegals. The stats coming out of the prisons reveal a sobering situation vis-a-vis "illegals", and that is also a "fact".

Like "most" illegals are perhaps not a drag on the USA Society, most of those supporting the Arizona law are NOT bigots, or racists, despite what some say.

Lets see how this all plays out.

Barry

Mexitron BS

MrBillM - 5-5-2010 at 01:29 PM

I can take you on a tour of Desert Hot Springs Neighborhoods that are EXACTLY as described.

In FACT, I can give you the address of one where there were (18) Known living in a one-bedroom. WERE because they brought in a junk 19-foot RV trailer to house the overflow and their makeshift electrical wiring resulted in BOTH burning to the ground. At which point, the occupants vanished into the vapor, but the houses on either side and, for that matter, blocks around are filled to capacity and the yards are filled to capacity with trash.

One of the (many) negative consequences to the current problem is that these neighborhoods end up being nothing but houses with absentee owners going through rental management agencies who (knowingly ?) are renting to this group and maximizing profits resulting in rental prices that are outrageous for the quality of the housing IF you aren't overfilling them and thus driving up prices in adjacent neighborhoods.

BUT, keep spreading your BS. Those living near the problem know you're full of it.

mtgoat666 - 5-5-2010 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
I can take you on a tour of Desert Hot Springs Neighborhoods that are EXACTLY as described.

In FACT, I can give you the address of one where there were (18) Known living in a one-bedroom. WERE because they brought in a junk 19-foot RV trailer to house the overflow and their makeshift electrical wiring resulted in BOTH burning to the ground. At which point, the occupants vanished into the vapor, but the houses on either side and, for that matter, blocks around are filled to capacity and the yards are filled to capacity with trash.

One of the (many) negative consequences to the current problem is that these neighborhoods end up being nothing but houses with absentee owners going through rental management agencies who (knowingly ?) are renting to this group and maximizing profits resulting in rental prices that are outrageous for the quality of the housing IF you aren't overfilling them and thus driving up prices in adjacent neighborhoods.

BUT, keep spreading your BS. Those living near the problem know you're full of it.

mr bile:
sounds like you should buy a rental for the retirement income.

DENNIS - 5-5-2010 at 05:43 PM

This thread has sunk to OT levels. :fire:

Mexitron - 5-5-2010 at 07:35 PM

Quote:

That's ONE town and one example of a house---show me that this represents all the 20 million (or whatever the number is) illegals, which is the idea you are trying to propagate. As far as the rental problem---this is a capitalistic society, so what's the beef?

Show ME Scheisse

MrBillM - 5-5-2010 at 08:15 PM

For that matter, Show ME verifiable example that things are different. I can take you on tour of virtually any town, including L.A., San Diego and the like and there are plenty of examples to be found.

Then, of course, there's the FACT that roughly 20 percent of the Prison population is Illegal Immigrants.

Good, Hard-Working Folks.

Hope you meet some someday. In the Dark.

Mexicorn - 5-5-2010 at 08:54 PM

Oy Please shut this thread down. It's not what Love, Peace and Fish taco's are all about!

Profiling CAN be a good thing

Dave - 5-6-2010 at 07:40 AM

Yesterday, got stopped speeding through Tuscon. I was a bit nervous as I didn't have my 'papers'.

First thing the racist, Latino cop asked for was my license...Go figure. :rolleyes:

You can imagine his surprise when I pulled out my Mexican driver's license. Then we both had a laugh about it. Probably saved me from getting a ticket.

shari - 5-6-2010 at 08:11 AM

Oxxo's converstion with his neighbour was interesting...I bet this is VERY common. As many have mentioned, if there werent jobs available for illegals, perhaps the flow would lessen. If the government takes a hard line on the illegals...why not take a hard line against their employers.

What about mandatory jail terms for ANYONE employing an illegal immigrant...then what would the prison population stats reveal? How many of your neighbours and friends would be in the slammer. I bet there would be a fast bill introduced to legalize those workers.

DianaT - 5-6-2010 at 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
Oxxo's converstion with his neighbour was interesting...I bet this is VERY common. As many have mentioned, if there werent jobs available for illegals, perhaps the flow would lessen. If the government takes a hard line on the illegals...why not take a hard line against their employers.

What about mandatory jail terms for ANYONE employing an illegal immigrant...then what would the prison population stats reveal? How many of your neighbours and friends would be in the slammer. I bet there would be a fast bill introduced to legalize those workers.

Yes, well said.

It is a very mixed message that is sent ---- don't cross the border, but do come and work for us.

And no matter how it is rationalized, supporting the Arizonia bill is a bigoted position.

Back to just reading again.

[Edited on 5-6-2010 by DianaT]

Alan - 5-6-2010 at 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Like "most" illegals are perhaps not a drag on the USA Society, most of those supporting the Arizona law are NOT bigots, or racists, despite what some say.

Lets see how this all plays out.

Barry

I believe the wrong word is in quotations in the above post. The point of this law is to identify those who are breaking the law with the key word being "illegal". Az's new law does nothing to change the immigration policies of this country and makes no comment regarding the validity of those laws already in place. It merely requires the enforcement of those laws.

Everyone of us already have our identification cards ie; driver license checked for warrants with every contact with law enforcement. Is checking our immigration status at the same time really any different? We are a country of laws but they are of no value if we choose to blatantly not enforce them.

People in glass houses...

Dave - 5-6-2010 at 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike

Charlie Daniels weighs in

I don't need sensitivity lessons, in fact I don't have any-thing against Mexicans! I just have something against criminals...

The Charlie Daniels I once knew broke this country's laws with regularity. In fact, some of the multiple, illegal products he used probably came from Mexico.

Of course, now he's probably totally reformed... Probably doesn't even jaywalk. Which gives him the credibility to criticize others for their lawless behavior. :rolleyes:

mtgoat666 - 5-6-2010 at 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan
We are a country of laws but they are of no value if we choose to blatantly not enforce them.

enforcing an unjust law (e.g. zonie show-me-your-paper-latino-profiling law) is violating the law.

a cop who breaks the law to enforce an unjust law is a bad cop.

as you said, the constitution is no good if we don't protect the civil rights provided in the constitution.

k-rico - 5-6-2010 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan

Quote:

Yup. But I think the problem being voiced by many that local police enforcement of this federal law decreases the effectiveness of local police forces is a valid one. Community policing to prevent crimes on person and property requires the trust and cooperation of the community. If illegals, which in some neighborhoods compose a significant percentage of the population, are afraid that they will be deported as a result of contact with local police, they'll avoid them.

Plus every arrest requires time (money) of each officer that makes an arrest. Arizona is going to find out that to effectively find and arrest illegals already in the state is going to cost the local police forces a lot of money, which most don't have. Plus you need to jail and go through the legal process for each person arrested. More time and money.

The new law will stop illegals from going to Arizona if it is enforced. It's going to cost big time to enforce this law in a manner that has any effect on the problem.

Zonies, get ready for higher local taxes, and you're going to have to pay the guy that mows your lawn at least minimum wage.

Barry A. - 5-6-2010 at 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike

Charlie Daniels weighs in

I don't need sensitivity lessons, in fact I don't have any-thing against Mexicans! I just have something against criminals...

Whether you, me, or Charley breaks the law, or not, has NOTHING to do with the validity of things that people say about what is "right" and what is "wrong"--------"right" is right, period, and "wrong" is wrong, period, no matter who says it.

Hypocracy is not the issue------------we are all hypocrits!!!

--------and yes, "illegal" is the primary focus of this law, for sure. Good point!!!!

Barry

k-rico - 5-6-2010 at 08:55 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/business/19illegals.html

"Illegal immigrants account for 12 percent of workers in food preparation occupations, ..... according to an analysis of census data by the Pew Hispanic Center. In total, they account for an estimated one in 20 workers in the United States."

"More than half of the estimated seven million immigrants toiling illegally in the United States get a regular paycheck every week or two, experts say. At the end of the year they receive a W-2 form. Come April 15, many file income tax returns using special ID numbers issued by the Internal Revenue Service so foreigners can pay taxes. Some even get a refund check in the mail."

"The building maintenance industry — a highly competitive business where the company with the lowest labor costs tends to win the contract — has welcomed them with open arms. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, more than a quarter of a million illegal immigrants are janitors, 350,000 are maids and housekeepers and 300,000 are groundskeepers."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"According to a recent study, 45 percent of illegal immigrants came here on a legal visa, and then overstayed that visa."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5485917

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, in addition to making entry difficult at points other than legal points of entry, a significant reduction in the problem of illegal immigration can be achieved by solving the problems of them being able to find work and the inability to track foreigners that enter legally on a temporary basis and don't leave.

Solving the overstaying the visa problem alone would cut illegal immigration almost in half.

shari - 5-6-2010 at 08:59 AM

I admit ignorance on this issue...but isnt there a law against hiring illegals?? who enforces THAT? why dont we hear alot of screaming about all the illegal employers...about a big crackdown on them? If this is about enforcing the law...well then...shouldnt there be big raids on companies and private homes?? and good old white folks and corporation heads arrested?? I'm just sayin....
standing on the sidelines, I see an unfair playing field

k-rico - 5-6-2010 at 09:00 AM

Illegal immigration and terrorism?

Have any of the terrorists since Oklahoma City that have successfully pulled off their act or who have been caught prior to the act been illegal aliens? I don't think so. Have any of them entered the country via Mexico? I don't think so. Have any of them been Mexican? Not yet.

Barry A. - 5-6-2010 at 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
I admit ignorance on this issue...but isnt there a law against hiring illegals?? who enforces THAT? why dont we hear alot of screaming about all the illegal employers...about a big crackdown on them? If this is about enforcing the law...well then...shouldnt there be big raids on companies and private homes?? and good old white folks and corporation heads arrested?? I'm just sayin....
standing on the sidelines, I see an unfair playing field

100% correct, Shari------------and it is appalling that it does not happen more often. No hiring of illegals, then probably a lot less illegals, absolutely!!!

Barry

k-rico - 5-6-2010 at 09:19 AM

To be prosecuted for hiring illegal aliens the government needs to prove that you knowingly hired illegal aliens. That's the problem and where the national ID card (i.e. a passport type document) comes in. As it is now, proof of citizenship, or a work visa, is not required to get a job. I don't remember having to show any kind of ID to get a job.

[Edited on 5-6-2010 by k-rico]

Make that ZERO

Dave - 5-6-2010 at 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

100% correct, Shari------------and it is appalling that it does not happen more often. No hiring of illegals, then probably a lot less illegals, absolutely!!!

Barry

If there were significant and strictly enforced penalties for hiring illegal immigrants you wouldn't find a single, solitary soul.

shari - 5-6-2010 at 09:30 AM

I think people like Oxxo's neighbour knows their cheap labourers are there illegally...which is why they work cheap NO??

I remember when the schools in the war on drugs wanted kids to fink on their parents and relatives who smoked pot...I can see it now...maybe the USA will offer a reward for ratting out family and neighbours who have illegal maids, gardeners, construction workers, etc. Now THAT will be a hornets nest.

Bajaboy - 5-6-2010 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Quote:

There is a lot to the bill I agree with...so go ahead and call me a bigot

Bajaboy - 5-6-2010 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

Quote:

If there were significant and strictly enforced penalties for hiring illegal immigrants you wouldn't find a single, solitary soul.

Agree 100%....

k-rico - 5-6-2010 at 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shari
I think people like Oxxo's neighbour knows their cheap labourers are there illegally...which is why they work cheap NO??

Sure, they probably know and would probably lie about it if prosecuted.

But your point that Americans hire illegal aliens and then beach about their existence is a good one.

I have a credit card sized passport card. Every citizen should have one. Similar documents should be required of permanent residents and those here on work visas to get a job. If you hire someone without one of these, you're guilty. A low grade misdemeanor charge with a significant fine for each hire might suffice.

Enforce and Enhance

MrBillM - 5-6-2010 at 09:41 AM

Enforce ALL the Laws, including a crackdown on employers hiring Illegal Aliens no matter WHO they are. If the current law is inadequate, FIX it. Throw those employers in Prison in the more flagrant cases. Fine them into Bankruptcy. Do WHATEVER can be done LEGALLY.

SHUT IT DOWN and THROW THEM OUT.

Let's see how sincere Liberals are when they preach Employer sanctions. My cynical belief is that they are simply using it as a diversionary response to ANY Crackdown.

Don't let them get away with it.

Head em up and Move em out. We'll deal with it and find out how many jobs there are that Americans REALLY won't do. If necessary, that can be resolved with a Guest Worker program.

Which, of course, the Liberals won't support.

Barry A. - 5-6-2010 at 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
Enforce ALL the Laws, including a crackdown on employers hiring Illegal Aliens no matter WHO they are. If the current law is inadequate, FIX it. Throw those employers in Prison in the more flagrant cases. Fine them into Bankruptcy. Do WHATEVER can be done LEGALLY.

SHUT IT DOWN and THROW THEM OUT.

Let's see how sincere Liberals are when they preach Employer sanctions. My cynical belief is that they are simply using it as a diversionary response to ANY Crackdown.

Don't let them get away with it.

Head em up and Move em out. We'll deal with it and find out how many jobs there are that Americans REALLY won't do. If necessary, that can be resolved with a Guest Worker program.

Which, of course, the Liberals won't support.

Bingo!!!!! Problem solved. All common sense solutions, Bill.

Barry

Bajaboy - 5-6-2010 at 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBillM
We'll deal with it and find out how many jobs there are that Americans REALLY won't do. If necessary, that can be resolved with a Guest Worker program.

Or by raising wages for those "undesirable" jobs which are currently subsidizing inexpensive food and services in the USA. If that's what it takes, I'd personally be willing to forsake the maid and gardener. :>

--Larry

Yep

Wages will rise if we eliminate the "subsidized" cheap labor pool. Is this such an inhumane idea? Get a national id card and deport those here illegally and prosecute those who hire illegals. And then address legal immigration issues.

irenemm - 5-6-2010 at 11:36 AM

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002700.html

Go to the above web page and read about our cheap labor.

mtgoat666 - 5-6-2010 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by irenemm
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002700.html

Go to the above web page and read about our cheap labor.

that story is BS.

i am not surpised at the conservative approach to debate, citing anonymous fantastical writings on the internet, to support their bigoted world view.

Alan - 5-6-2010 at 11:57 AM

Quote:

Yes there are laws on the books against hiring illegals. Those laws must be enforced "concurrently" with Az's approach. Yes there are raids on companies when sufficient probable cause exists to support a search warrant. Sting operations such as are currently employed to apprehend the consumer of drugs or prostitution should be expanded to those who exploit the illegal worker by paying less than the mandatory minimum wage knowing that they won't report them. Make no mistake about it. Those who hire illegals for their maid or gardener are exploiting people and holding them in poverty. They must be held equally accountable.

Immigration reform is long over due but our government continues to try to ignore that huge elephant in the room. We all know that the only way to possibly eat an elephant is one bite at a time. As unpalateable as it may be, I have to applaud Arizona for having the courage to take that first bite and there are many more bites that must be taken before this elephant will go away.

Bajahowodd - 5-6-2010 at 12:37 PM

Digger (aka Dan Amato)= Minuteman Project head case.

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