BajaNomad

Arizonas new Imigration Bill(This has turned into a Rat Hole)

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Mexitron - 5-6-2010 at 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by Mexitron

The most illegals I ever saw in one place was 8 guys sharing a two bedroom apt. and that was in the 80s. Not that "20 per room" doesn't happen but that's a misperception as to be commonplace. They do (or did) live in dirt caves by the strawberry fields in Carlsbad however.
The illegals I've worked in the same company with or lived near have usually been huge consumers of US goods and the biggest complaint they have in their lives is that they don't send enough money home to Mexico. I have not known any of them to steal anything. They would probably return home after working for 6 months or a year if it didn't cost so much to come back...they don't necessarily want to be here full time.


That's a fair comment, Mexitron, and certainly true of most, but not all, illegals. The stats coming out of the prisons reveal a sobering situation vis-a-vis "illegals", and that is also a "fact".

Like "most" illegals are perhaps not a drag on the USA Society, most of those supporting the Arizona law are NOT bigots, or racists, despite what some say.

Lets see how this all plays out.

Barry


Exactly...I'm not trying to weigh in either side of the debate here, clearly we need a better system in place to deal with what could possibly be a win/win situation for US employers and foreign workers. I get a little peeved though when all illegals are portrayed as immoral lowlifes--they're a broad cross-section of humanity just as we are, mostly good, some bad.

oxxo - 5-6-2010 at 02:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
To be prosecuted for hiring illegal aliens the government needs to prove that you knowingly hired illegal aliens.


My neighbors don't "know" that their full time Mexican maid in Colorado is illegal. They don't talk about it with her. They don't want to know, because they can them feign ignorance. However, they confided in me that they presume she is illegal because she doesn't have a SS card. So they pay her cash under the table, WHICH IS ILLEGAL!

I say crack down on illegal immigrants and crack down on those who employ them......either knowingly or unknowlingly (they know).

oxxo - 5-6-2010 at 03:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Enforce ALL the Laws, including a crackdown on employers hiring Illegal Aliens no matter WHO they are.


I don't believe it!!!!!!! This is the first time in something like 5 years on BN that I have ever agreed with MrBullS.

This is one liberal who would support such an effort. Kumbaya! YES WE CAN! :biggrin:

DENNIS - 5-6-2010 at 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
they confided in me that they presume she is illegal because she doesn't have a SS card. So they pay her cash under the table, WHICH IS ILLEGAL!



OK...So, what are we supposed to do? Hire a White kid from the local community college to clean the toilet every couple of weeks and pay their withholding taxes and social security?
C'mon, get real. That won't happen and you know it, but it will be overlooked because she's legal.
So...this isn't really a matter of paying taxes, is it. Seems those who are crying loudest about the illegal help not having their taxes paid are going to ruin everything for those they think they're helping. The illegal housecleaner will be forced out of the labor pool and left wondering why everybody had to be so helpful.

oxxo - 5-6-2010 at 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
OK...So, what are we supposed to do? Hire a White kid from the local community college to clean the toilet every couple of weeks and pay their withholding taxes and social security?


Yes, that is what the Law requires you to do. If they say they have a IRS I.D. tax number then you pay them cash or check or whatever and you have to fill out form #...... (somebody help me here) and mail it to the IRS with their Tax I.D. number on it and the amount you paid them.

Do we obey the Laws of the USA or not? Or do we obey the Laws that are just convenient for you?

DENNIS - 5-6-2010 at 03:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
do we obey the Laws that are just convenient for you?


When it comes to paying someone for cleaning my toilet, I do it my way.
Don't try to tell me that you, ever in your life, made a big payroll ordeal with the kid who mowed your lawn or cleaned your garage. You payed him cash and you know it.

People like you, who try to convince others that you live your life by a literal interpretation of every chickenchit little law that has appeared in the books, are a complete disingenuous hypocrite. You couldn't go through life with the burden of that much purity.

Bajaboy - 5-6-2010 at 03:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
OK...So, what are we supposed to do? Hire a White kid from the local community college to clean the toilet every couple of weeks and pay their withholding taxes and social security?


Yes, that is what the Law requires you to do. If they say they have a IRS I.D. tax number then you pay them cash or check or whatever and you have to fill out form #...... (somebody help me here) and mail it to the IRS with their Tax I.D. number on it and the amount you paid them.

Do we obey the Laws of the USA or not? Or do we obey the Laws that are just convenient for you?


1099 I believe

NEVER Have, NEVER Will.

MrBillM - 5-6-2010 at 03:51 PM

Pay someone to clean my toilet, that is.

OR, mow my lawn. Back when I had a lawn, that is. If I didn't do it, my kids did. Which doesn't count.

However, for those who have paid someone to mow the lawn or clean the yard (or even clean the toilet), isn't it legal to assume those as private contractors doing incidental work ? With any tax reporting burden being theirs ? I don't remember the exact rules for Legitimate Contractors, but it's easy enough to look up.

Although I worked for three different Telecom contractors over a period of eight years and we were referred to as such, we were actually "Leased" employees under the law. The IRS rules for a Private Contractor are pretty tight, but I think a "Casual" Lawn-Mowing guy qualifies.

From the IRS website:

"A general rule is that the payer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work done by an independent contractor, and not the means and methods of accomplishing the result".

AND, You MAY have to file a 1099 If:

1. You made the payment to someone who is not your employee;

2. You made the payment for services in the course of your trade or business (including government agencies and nonprofit organizations);

3. You made the payment to an individual, partnership, estate, or in some cases, a corporation; and

4. You made payments to the payee of at least $600 during the year.

Looks like you're OK with that White kid mowing.

[Edited on 5-6-2010 by MrBillM]

Mexicorn - 5-6-2010 at 04:02 PM

Ho Hum Yawn....

This is the most boring thread all of the sudden.

Could someone Please Please Hijack so that we can move onto a subject more in line with the credo Love Peace and Fish Tacos!

How about all the road kill down here. Someone should really do something about all the strays. It breaks my heart every time I pass one of those little road pizzas.

oxxo - 5-6-2010 at 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
When it comes to paying someone for cleaning my toilet, I do it my way.
Don't try to tell me that you, ever in your life, made a big payroll ordeal with the kid who mowed your lawn or cleaned your garage. You payed him cash and you know it.


Of course I did. I broke the Law. If it is under $20 bucks a month , I don't worry about it. When it is a project for $1,000, I fill out a 1099. That is why I am ambivalent about cracking down on illegal immigrants who are breaking the law. I live in a glass house and I am not going to throw stones.

Quote:
People like you, who try to convince others that you live your life by a literal interpretation of every chickenchit little law that has appeared in the books, are a complete disingenuous hypocrite. You couldn't go through life with the burden of that much purity.


Yes, I am guilty as charged, a hypocrite, just like the next person. I admit it. (By the way I clean my own house and don't have any maids - legal or illegal) That's why I don't judge my neighbors too harshly, they are good people just trying to get by with a warped sense of responsibility (like me sometimes).

I think hypocrites are those who say that illegal immigrants need to obey the Law, but they don't have to.

Peace, Love, and Cerveza Tecate!

[Edited on 5-6-2010 by oxxo]

mtgoat666 - 5-6-2010 at 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
do we obey the Laws that are just convenient for you?


When it comes to paying someone for cleaning my toilet, I do it my way.
Don't try to tell me that you, ever in your life, made a big payroll ordeal with the kid who mowed your lawn or cleaned your garage. You payed him cash and you know it.

People like you, who try to convince others that you live your life by a literal interpretation of every chickenchit little law that has appeared in the books, are a complete disingenuous hypocrite. You couldn't go through life with the burden of that much purity.


DENNIS,
iF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THE LAWS, WHY DO YOU GET UPSET WHEN IMMIGRANTS DON'T FOLLOW THE LAW???

:lol::lol:

"do as i say, not as i do," said dennis

mtgoat666 - 5-6-2010 at 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Could someone Please Please Hijack so that we can move onto a subject more in line with the credo Love Peace and Fish Tacos!


here is a hijack --
dk sure has been silent on this issue. is that because he is an irrigation contractor and he stops stops by home depot to pick up day laborers and give them a ride in his toyota tacoma??????

where is "mr fish, peace, toyota, love, gps waypoints, and fish tacos"?

Packoderm - 5-6-2010 at 04:26 PM

In California, you don't need to file a 1099 if the job is less than $500 per year. The kid would need to mow your lawn quite a few times for you to need to report it.

oxxo - 5-6-2010 at 04:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
dk sure has been silent on this issue. is that because he is an irrigation contractor


I hope he just landed a nice contract and is too busy to post. That is what is called a "win/win" situation (I'm just kidding DK)!

DENNIS - 5-6-2010 at 04:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
iF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THE LAWS, WHY DO YOU GET UPSET WHEN IMMIGRANTS DON'T FOLLOW THE LAW???



Immigrants breaking the law isn't my issue. Never was.
My issue is with the actvists and foreign leaders telling the US how they will interpret or ignore the law. Since the illegals have joined the ranks of the actvists, they have turned me against any needs they may have.

DENNIS - 5-6-2010 at 04:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
In California, you don't need to file a 1099 if the job is less than $500 per year. The kid would need to mow your lawn quite a few times for you to need to report it.


I wonder how many toilets they would have to scrubb to reach 500 bucks. I would think in a years time, the lawn mower would get there first.

oxxo - 5-6-2010 at 04:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Immigrants breaking the law isn't my issue.


Okay, just so I understand, you don't have a problem with illegal immigrants?

DENNIS - 5-6-2010 at 05:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo

Okay, just so I understand, you don't have a problem with illegal immigrants?


Here. Let me say it again. Read slowly now:

"Immigrants breaking the law isn't my issue. Never was.
My issue is with the actvists and foreign leaders telling the US how they will interpret or ignore the law. Since the illegals have joined the ranks of the actvists, they have turned me against any needs they may have."

fear not DK....

capt. mike - 5-7-2010 at 05:48 AM

the old devil Goat is just being his usual eristic self....:rolleyes:

and Dennis - you got it right on all fronts, my man.:light:


Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Mexicorn
Could someone Please Please Hijack so that we can move onto a subject more in line with the credo Love Peace and Fish Tacos!


here is a hijack --
dk sure has been silent on this issue. is that because he is an irrigation contractor and he stops stops by home depot to pick up day laborers and give them a ride in his toyota tacoma??????

where is "mr fish, peace, toyota, love, gps waypoints, and fish tacos"?

Packoderm - 5-8-2010 at 07:06 AM

bump

DENNIS - 5-8-2010 at 07:31 AM

Why?

monoloco - 5-8-2010 at 07:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo

Okay, just so I understand, you don't have a problem with illegal immigrants?


Here. Let me say it again. Read slowly now:

"Immigrants breaking the law isn't my issue. Never was.
My issue is with the actvists and foreign leaders telling the US how they will interpret or ignore the law. Since the illegals have joined the ranks of the actvists, they have turned me against any needs they may have."
Translation: We stole this land fair and square from the brown people, how dare they go and get all uppity after we were nice enough to let them sneak back in to work as maids, dishwashers, and field hands.

Barry A. - 5-8-2010 at 07:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo

Okay, just so I understand, you don't have a problem with illegal immigrants?


Here. Let me say it again. Read slowly now:

"Immigrants breaking the law isn't my issue. Never was.
My issue is with the actvists and foreign leaders telling the US how they will interpret or ignore the law. Since the illegals have joined the ranks of the actvists, they have turned me against any needs they may have."
Translation: We stole this land fair and square from the brown people, how dare they go and get all uppity after we were nice enough to let them sneak back in to work as maids, dishwashers, and field hands.


"WE", white man??????????? Speak for yourself! I was not around when that happened, and neither were the illegal immigrants that we are talking about. Ancient History!!!! What a silly comment, in my opinion.

Barry

mtgoat666 - 5-8-2010 at 08:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo

Okay, just so I understand, you don't have a problem with illegal immigrants?


Here. Let me say it again. Read slowly now:

"Immigrants breaking the law isn't my issue. Never was.
My issue is with the actvists and foreign leaders telling the US how they will interpret or ignore the law. Since the illegals have joined the ranks of the actvists, they have turned me against any needs they may have."
Translation: We stole this land fair and square from the brown people, how dare they go and get all uppity after we were nice enough to let them sneak back in to work as maids, dishwashers, and field hands.


"WE", white man??????????? Speak for yourself! I was not around when that happened, and neither were the illegal immigrants that we are talking about. Ancient History!!!! What a silly comment, in my opinion.

Barry


funny how white men excuse their ancestors crimes. you claim to be a citizen and entitled to all rights of the country, but deny all responsibility for what your country and ancestors did.
you are a good example of self-centered, me-first gringo.

[Edited on 5-8-2010 by mtgoat666]

Cypress - 5-8-2010 at 08:14 AM

The blame game! The racist card! Class warfare! Can the liberals think of anything new? No matter what the issue it's always the same old worn-out dogma. Looks like they'd get a little bored parroting the same-o-same-o. :lol:

Round em Up and Head em out

MrBillM - 5-8-2010 at 08:40 AM

Establish and maintain control.

Finish the Fence.

Remember November.

Timo1 - 5-8-2010 at 08:53 AM

Just a thought....
Let's say you round up 100,000 illegals
You send them back to mexico
10% return to Baja (figures are only for example purpose)
Thats 10,000 that need jobs that aren't there
Many families without income
I figure the by-product will be a significant increase in crime rate
Also a resentment towards gringos
Aren't you sort of shooting yourselves in the foot???
Making the place you love to live and visit a much more dangerous place ??
Something to consider
Kind of a catch 22

[Edited on 5-8-2010 by Timo1]

Just Thunking ?

MrBillM - 5-8-2010 at 09:05 AM

Well, there is no doubt that, in addition to the usual Liberal Sycophant BS regarding the Illegal Alien problem, there is represented HERE those who would put their own self-interests in Baja above the best interests of their own country.

BUT, there are also those of us who are principled enough to advocate what we think best for the U.S. regardless of how it might affect us personally as foreigners living in Mexico.

oxxo - 5-8-2010 at 09:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
funny how white men excuse their ancestors crimes. you claim to be a citizen and entitled to all rights of the country, but deny all responsibility for what your country and ancestors did.


We had a visit with my wife's oldest cousin who's hobby is family geneology (not a mormon). He informed us that my wife's maternal grandfather was an illegal immigrant from the Ukraine back around 1900. He said that he discovered his original visa in a box of personal papers. The visa said it was good for visitation for 6 months and then he had to return to the Ukraine. Of course he never returned and of course hid out from immigration officials in Colorado as a result. I don't think he ever became a US citizen.

There is a republican politician who is proposing that the offspring of illegal immigrants be sent back to the country of origin. :lol: I told my wife she could kiss her burro good bye because damned if I was going to visit her in the Ukraine! :P

DENNIS - 5-8-2010 at 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by monoloco
Translation: We stole this land fair and square from the brown people, how dare they go and get all uppity after we were nice enough to let them sneak back in to work as maids, dishwashers, and field hands.


That doesn't even come close to what I said. I know what I said and there's not a lib in the world who can tell me I said otherwise in spite of what they would wish I had said.
Can't you people make your own case for an issue? Seems your debating technique consists of misconstruing everything others say.

And please, mono, don't throw in that "We're a nation of immigrants" BS nonsense. I'm not and neither were my parents.
We're supposed to learn from history, not continually live it. What would your kids learn in History class if time stayed in the present? We have to move on.

DENNIS - 5-8-2010 at 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
you are a good example of self-centered, me-first gringo.



And now, the compliments. It's hard to tell where you stand anymore, Goat. :lol:

Manifest Destiny is an unfinished project. Too bad.

DENNIS - 5-8-2010 at 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Timo1
Just a thought....
Let's say you round up 100,000 illegals
You send them back to mexico
10% return to Baja (figures are only for example purpose)
Thats 10,000 that need jobs that aren't there
Many families without income
I figure the by-product will be a significant increase in crime rate
Also a resentment towards gringos
Aren't you sort of shooting yourselves in the foot???
Making the place you love to live and visit a much more dangerous place ??
Something to consider
Kind of a catch 22



If they're going to blame the gringo on the street in Baja for their problems, they'll do that in the states as well.
Your rendition of the common man Mexican is one of an uncivilized reactionary.
Is that what he is?

DENNIS - 5-8-2010 at 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
I told my wife she could kiss her burro good bye because damned if I was going to visit her in the Ukraine!


You had better be watching your credit cards. She may be out there buying one of these "Rebirth Wardrobes."
Has she been whistling and singing a lot lately? :lol:

mtgoat666 - 5-8-2010 at 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
And please, mono, don't throw in that "We're a nation of immigrants" BS nonsense. I'm not and neither were my parents.


are you aboriginal? no, i think you are white euro trash immigrant stock. you are a decsendant of imigrants, still an immigrant, and duncan hunter say you should be deported.

but seems you already immigrated to a bar in mexico. how long until mexico deports you?

DENNIS - 5-8-2010 at 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666

you are a decsendant of imigrants, still an immigrant


Illogical. Your arguement is getting weak...gasping for air. You have no facts to hurl as weapons. Your demise is imminent along with all the gooey leeches you hang with.



Quote:
but seems you already immigrated



Yes, I did. Legally.

----------

Here ya go, Goatlib. I know you're unfamiliar with the concept:


le·gal (lgl)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or concerned with law: legal papers.
2.
a. Authorized by or based on law: a legal right.
b. Established by law; statutory: the legal owner.
3. In conformity with or permitted by law: legal business operations.
4. Recognized or enforced by law rather than by equity.
5. In terms of or created by the law: a legal offense.
6. Applicable to or characteristic of attorneys or their profession.
n.
1. One that is in accord with certain rules or laws.
2. legals Investments that may be legally made by fiduciaries and certain institutions, such as savings banks and insurance companies. Also called legal list.

Abos and Aliens

MrBillM - 5-8-2010 at 12:09 PM

The argument that ONLY Aborigines have a right to residency is absurd, of course, and no surprise coming from a Mongoloid-mind like Goatchit.

For that matter, those who "Claim" to be Aborigines can't prove it. We don't Know WHERE those came from. For sure. No records kept and Archeological finds are only "questionable" proof until a different one comes along.

They can only claim to trace their ancestry back to an approximate point and it's impossible to know if there were different Abos prior to that.

As a compromise, though, I'd be OK with shipping out anyone who can't trace their ancestry within our borders back to 1635. I'd still be around and there would be a lot more room.

Have to get a different wife, However.

DENNIS - 5-8-2010 at 12:20 PM

I think they just found a touch of Neanderthal in mostly European blood lines. MyGawd...I feel like an entitled Thoroughbred.

Cypress - 5-8-2010 at 01:20 PM

oxxo, Spot on! The other liberal tactic is to pick out an isolated "sob story" and try to gather up a bunch of "weepers".

Barry A. - 5-8-2010 at 01:55 PM

I am under the impression that we ALL originally came from Africa-------so deal with that one in justifying your rational for our conquoring ancestors, Goat, et al.

Like I said, silly stuff for sure.

BArry

DENNIS - 5-8-2010 at 03:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
I am under the impression that we ALL originally came from Africa-------so deal with that one in justifying your rational for our conquoring ancestors, Goat, et al.



Not really, Barry. The Neanderthal strain wasn't out of Africa. African types today don't show the gene. It's all around Africa, but not within.
Leads me to believe that cotten shirts were a Neanderthal phenomona. :lol:

oxxo - 5-8-2010 at 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
I am under the impression that we ALL originally came from Africa


Depends on whether you are an Evolutionist or a Fundamentalist.

But for me, I've been told in Off Topic several times that I come from the droppings of a burro! Works for me!

Cypress - 5-8-2010 at 06:33 PM

We all came the from the union of an egg with a sperm and then the process began, afterwards......:lol: Some developed into liberals and others evolved into a more advanced life form. :bounce:

oxxo - 5-8-2010 at 07:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Some developed into liberals and others evolved into a more advanced life form.


Progressives? And then there were some that were infertile from the start and never evolved.......me for example (two can play this game).

Cypress, are you keepin up?

[Edited on 5-9-2010 by oxxo]

DENNIS - 5-8-2010 at 07:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
But for me, I've been told several times that I come from the droppings of a burro! Works for me!


I love to see a man with so much pride speak well of himself.

oxxo - 5-8-2010 at 08:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
I love to see a man with so much pride speak well of himself.


Artful editing! Dennis you ain't keepin up. At least be clever or funny!

Barry A. - 5-9-2010 at 08:54 AM

This is for the Goat, and it's (?) ilk, hoping that it will provide some clarification when we talk of "controlling the border".


THIS seems pretty "clever", and yes, even "funny" if it all were not so sad-------

Not sure of the validity of each point, but you get the idea-----


MOVING TO MEXICO
Dear President Obama:


I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

3 Please print all Mexican government forms in English.

4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.

5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history..

6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.

7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico but I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least! one Eng lish-speaking officer.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U. S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy..

14. I want to receive free food stamps.

15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.

16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.

17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't. pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car..

18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U..S. from Mexico .
I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help.You're the man!!!

Packoderm - 5-9-2010 at 09:07 AM

There is quite a bit wrong with the above Letter to Obama, and it will be fun to pick it apart (even though I am in favor of zero immigration into the U.S. until the U.S. population decreases by at least 10%), but I'm heading out to breakfast with my mother. Will respond later.

comitan - 5-9-2010 at 09:20 AM

:mad::mad::barf::barf:

mtgoat666 - 5-9-2010 at 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
This is for the Goat, and it's (?) ilk, hoping that it will provide some clarification when we talk of "controlling the border".


THIS seems pretty "clever", and yes, even "funny" if it all were not so sad-------

Not sure of the validity of each point, but you get the idea-----



you obviously are pretty stupid to think that the issues of 10s of millions of people can be reduced to simple issues viewed only from perspective of a retired, overweight white guy on govt pension* living in a small hick town in rural north california (* pension "earned" like all govt workers, by doing a sub-mediocre job at slow pace).

not worth debating things with a horses *ss who never had a real job (hah, pretty funny to think that barry was one of those worthless government employees we complain about every day -- and he comes here to tell us how to fix govt)

comitan - 5-9-2010 at 09:21 AM

:fire::fire::?::?::fire::fire:

Barry A. - 5-9-2010 at 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
This is for the Goat, and it's (?) ilk, hoping that it will provide some clarification when we talk of "controlling the border".


THIS seems pretty "clever", and yes, even "funny" if it all were not so sad-------

Not sure of the validity of each point, but you get the idea-----



you obviously are pretty stupid to think that the issues of 10s of millions of people can be reduced to simple issues viewed only from perspective of a retired, overweight white guy on govt pension* living in a small hick town in rural north california (* pension "earned" like all govt workers, by doing a sub-mediocre job at slow pace).

not worth debating things with a horses *ss who never had a real job (hah, pretty funny to think that barry was one of those worthless government employees we complain about every day -- and he comes here to tell us how to fix govt)


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: why am I not surprised at this sweet response from the Goat----and so knowledgable-----he is such a delightful guy/gal, and so sensitive and compassionate and soothing to the ear Our Country will certainly progress with folks like this being the spokes-person. :rolleyes:

Barry

Dust to Dust-Asses to Ashes

MrBillM - 5-9-2010 at 09:47 AM

That's the best way to think of people like The marooonGoat.

comitan - 5-9-2010 at 09:52 AM

:fire::no::no::fire::o:o:wow:

mtgoat666 - 5-9-2010 at 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry A.
This is for the Goat,


you obviously are pretty stupid to think that the issues of 10s of millions of people can be reduced to simple issues viewed only from perspective of a retired, overweight white guy on govt pension* living in a small hick town in rural north california


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: why am I not surprised at this sweet response from the Goat----and so knowledgable-----he is such a delightful guy/gal, and so sensitive and compassionate and soothing to the ear Our Country will certainly progress with folks like this being the spokes-person. :rolleyes:

Barry


hey, your first post said it was for me. don't be a cry baby because i responded to your marooonicity :lol:

comitan - 5-9-2010 at 11:13 AM

don't be a cry baby because i responded to your marooonicity :rolleyes::rolleyes::mad:

marooonicity?

Dave - 5-9-2010 at 11:27 AM

Where would one find its definition...The book of marooon?

DENNIS - 5-9-2010 at 11:38 AM

1. marooonicity
The degree to which one is a marooon.
Can you believe the marooonicity of that guy?
stupidness idiocy dumbness stupidity idiocity


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=marooonicity

Cypress - 5-9-2010 at 12:16 PM

oxxo, Progressives? No, a better description would be regressives or throw-backs. The term came into usage back in the early 20th. century and the philosophy was discredited. Communism would be a more current and appropiate term.;)

oxxo - 5-9-2010 at 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Communism would be a more current and appropiate term.


According to Teabaggers, soon to be former Senator Bob Bennet, arch conservative from Utah, is a Communist. Go figure. I guess a conservative defines a Communist as someone who doesn't agree with him. By using the description so frequently and so broadly, it loses its punch. :light:

Cypress - 5-9-2010 at 01:32 PM

oxxo, Teabaggers? By your choice of terminoligy you have lost your cerdibility:biggrin::biggrin:

Bajahowodd - 5-9-2010 at 01:34 PM

And just what else should someone be called who hangs tea bags from the brim of their hat?:biggrin:

oxxo - 5-9-2010 at 01:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
By your choice of terminoligy you have lost your cerdibility


According to many in Off Topic, I never had any anyway, so your revelation does not come as a shock to me. First I'm a Communist, and now I don't have any credibility, it all fits.

[Edited on 5-9-2010 by oxxo]

comitan - 5-9-2010 at 02:04 PM

I don't know why you guys just come out and tell what you think of each other. Or stand on the outside looking in and see what people are thinking of you.:wow:

All 6,000

[Edited on 5-9-2010 by comitan]

oxxo - 5-9-2010 at 02:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
And just what else should someone be called who hangs tea bags from the brim of their hat?:biggrin:


I dunno, that's food for thought!

Looking for Mr. Goodbar?

Mad Hatters?

Repressed?

Tead Off?

Sending Smoke Signals?

Tea for Two?

Earl Grey makes a good cup of tea?

TeaPee O'd?

In midlife crisis and confused?

I just don't know, but I'm sure someone is going to tell me soon, about one post down.

DianaT - 5-9-2010 at 02:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Communism would be a more current and appropiate term.


According to Teabaggers, soon to be former Senator Bob Bennet, arch conservative from Utah, is a Communist. Go figure. I guess a conservative defines a Communist as someone who doesn't agree with him. By using the description so frequently and so broadly, it loses its punch. :light:


Bill Bennet not conservative enough---a Communist---wow. When we heard about it we really couldn't believe it. Cannot think of any senator much further to the right than Bennet!

Cypress - 5-9-2010 at 02:36 PM

Bennet was kicked to the curb because he was not a reliable conservative, good riddance to his unreliable, self-serving agenda.;)

Cypress - 5-9-2010 at 02:58 PM

lencho, I like those fried pig skins to, but what has that got to do with the price of...?:?::spingrin:

gnukid - 5-9-2010 at 03:01 PM

Hopefully some of you are beginning to see really everyone has common beleifs and values and that the suggestions on TV and in the Mass Media are part of a strategy to divide the people in order to reduce the power of the people who all benefit from recognition of the values defined in the constitution for liberty, individual rights individual property rights. And that for a long time the politicians have been compromised and they work for the banksters, they do not enforce laws to benefit individuals they only enforce laws to increasingly restrict and target all individuals.

The Tea party is no different from any other group, they have a common belief that large government and corporations have gone too far and that taxes are increasingly high while our infrastructure suffers.

The Arizona law is not being enforced in any manner which targets people unfairly, it only confirms that states are overly burdened by the Federal Governments failure to enforce laws and to actually allow criminal behavior that benefits corporations and not individuals.

Reading this thread its clear that most posters watch TV and follow the propaganda lead which divides people and reduces the power of coalitions of common people in order to benefit corporations. The divide and conquer strategy is among the oldest political tools, which is why TV propaganda fuels racism in order to divide, fuels the idea that there are people who are violent even the numbers do not show that this is the case, beyond the lack of violence there is a lack of actual terrorism, lack of al queda in numbers beyond 100 or so and a lack of a threat yet we are told the threat is huge and we all must target each other, fear each other, and turn on each other for our own safety. While in fact we must become self-sufficient, less dependent on the mommy-state and less expectant of big gov to do things for us while we should se ourselves as a local community with common values and common needs.

So please stop falling for the divide and conquer trap, see each other as common and see that divisiveness and false division is the enemy of the community which must overlook our small cultural differences and ignorance and tolerate each other in order to solve our problems.

Instead of funding war and terror, we could easily fund the things we need like schools, health, streets and utilities infrastructure. Do not fall victim to the divisive tactics and lies of the propaganda.

Cypress - 5-9-2010 at 03:09 PM

gnukid, You're right!:bounce:

oxxo - 5-9-2010 at 03:32 PM

"I know the difference between right and wrong.
Whatever I believe is right. Whatever you believe is wrong!"

(quotation from my wife to me)

Packoderm - 5-9-2010 at 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Communism would be a more current and appropiate term.


According to Teabaggers, soon to be former Senator Bob Bennet, arch conservative from Utah, is a Communist. Go figure. I guess a conservative defines a Communist as someone who doesn't agree with him. By using the description so frequently and so broadly, it loses its punch. :light:


Bill Bennet not conservative enough---a Communist---wow. When we heard about it we really couldn't believe it. Cannot think of any senator much further to the right than Bennet!


Nothing less than lockstep is acceptable to them.

mtgoat666 - 5-9-2010 at 04:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Packoderm
Quote:
Originally posted by DianaT
Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
Communism would be a more current and appropiate term.


According to Teabaggers, soon to be former Senator Bob Bennet, arch conservative from Utah, is a Communist. Go figure. I guess a conservative defines a Communist as someone who doesn't agree with him. By using the description so frequently and so broadly, it loses its punch. :light:


Bill Bennet not conservative enough---a Communist---wow. When we heard about it we really couldn't believe it. Cannot think of any senator much further to the right than Bennet!


Nothing less than lockstep is acceptable to them.


Tea baggers in UT are going to send a freaky newbie to Wash DC. That freakie newbie will be incapable of bringing pork home to UT. People of UT will suffer as federal $$ are spent elsewhere.

Hopefully, the federal dollars lost by UT are used in CA to build/fund something that the tea baggers consider wasteful, like libraries, schools, arts.

The Utahonians have those big bigamist families, so they have social safety net of large familes,; therefore, they need fewer federal funds.

tea baggers -- they make me laugh.

Packoderm - 5-9-2010 at 04:23 PM

Sir Goat, while I don't always agree with your argument tactics, there was quite a bit of truth contained in that last post.

capt. mike - 5-9-2010 at 04:38 PM

the Utes of Utah are famous of throwing up the Uterine wall.

Bajahowodd - 5-9-2010 at 04:54 PM

Yup. Although the mainstream media have been continually harping on the idea that this mid-term election will be devastating to the Dems, it seems to me that as time goes by, the WAY right fringe of the Republicans is setting the agenda. Fact is, that if you look at the just completed election in the UK, it sets an example on a global basis, that folks are not ready or willing to make a major change. Methinks that the ultra-right, while somehow feeling empowered at this moment, just doesn't have a clue about what the mind set is in middle America.

And while I shudder to even bring it up, I am absolutely convinced that there is a fundamental backlash against an African American president. Maybe just a little over 150 years beyond slavery, our society is just not ready.

k-rico - 5-9-2010 at 05:10 PM

The latest issue of Newsweek is reporting that the DHS has told the Arizona police they will deport only violent criminals, other illegals snared by the cops will be given a letter and a date to appear, which of course few will. The state can't deport people, only the feds.

gnukid - 5-9-2010 at 05:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
...

And while I shudder to even bring it up, I am absolutely convinced that there is a fundamental backlash against an African American president. Maybe just a little over 150 years beyond slavery, our society is just not ready.


Perfect example of following the media line that there is racism among people who are unhappy with the policies of the Banksters puppet Obama. There has been no example of racism only the Mass Media claim there is Racism which is unfounded and not demonstrable. In fact there are now more than 20 Black Republicans running for office and supporting Libertarianism / Tea Party critical of Obama who demonstrate there is no example of Racism in the current Populist opposition to Goldman Sachs / Federal Reserve manipulations of the market and of the WhiteHouse.

The idea that Americans who oppose the police state and oppose targeting Libertarians and those who support the rule of law or Military who support their oath to the Constitution must be doing so as Racists and Terrorists is an entirely false and absurd notion.

Howard you need to turn off the TV and go outside and get to know your neighbors, participate in your community and stop pushing a divisive false agenda promoted by the fake Left Right political paradigm.

Drop this nonsense finally and consider what are your core values? What do you believe in? Do you support the traditions of the Rule of Law, the Constitution and do you oppose those who would promote destruction of our laws, our way of life and our traditions under the guise of a false war on terror and false war on drugs.

Turn off the TV and talk to your family and friends. Read a book.



[Edited on 5-10-2010 by gnukid]

Cypress - 5-9-2010 at 05:54 PM

Bajahowodd, The operative word to your post is "Methinks".:lol: Of course, you toss the race card out, it's getting down to about the value of a duce. Play it, lot easier than anything original.:lol:

gnukid - 5-9-2010 at 06:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
...
Tea baggers in UT are going to send a freaky newbie to Wash DC. That freakie newbie will be incapable of bringing pork home to UT. People of UT will suffer as federal $$ are spent elsewhere.
...


The General Public does not need more graft or more status quo from Washington, what would benefit the Public is less of what we are getting now.

All incumbents should be out based on their incredibly poor performance. Newbies would be as yet uncorrupted and uncompromised by back room deals. In fact a Senate that was blocked by a lack of majority would be a huge benefit by reducing the opportunity for massive theft underway and ever increasing funding of the military complex which is bankrupting each and everyone of us and bankrupting each of your retirement, medicare, social security and private investments.

The idea that anyone would benefit from voting an incumbent back into office is the most absurd and outrageous notion. We have had enough, we must prosecute the crimes committed by corrupt government and we must end the corruption which allows Goldman Sachs to control the Federal Reserve and our Government.

Turn off the TV and try reading the US History.

[Edited on 5-10-2010 by gnukid]

Bajahowodd - 5-9-2010 at 06:24 PM

OMG, if anyone is blind to the race issue....

Does anyone really believe that the current president is less capable than the last one? Eight years of embarrassing speech. Eight years of allowing the wealthy to enrich themselves.

We are being played by a cabal of the unbelievably rich and privileged. If anything, the guy in the White House fails to deliver for the everyday American.

gnu- You have won the tin hat award.

oxxo - 5-9-2010 at 06:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Howard you need to turn off the TV and go outside and get to know your neighbors, participate in your community and stop pushing a divisive false agenda promoted by the fake Left Right political paradigm.


I don't have a TV.

It is about 50/50 of the white US citizens I know personally who are rascist or homophobic in the most vile sense of the word - including my parents and grandparents, my brother, my brother in law, my two nephews, my neighbor who hires illegals but refruses to pay taxes or minimum wage...............need I go on?

[Edited on 5-10-2010 by oxxo]

gnukid - 5-9-2010 at 07:10 PM

Howard if you want to believe that critics of the current administration are just racist that is your choice though there is no evidence that it is the case, only hype on TV.

There are Critics of the Admin who say the current Admin is continuing the same policies as the last, in fact if you like Obama then you would love Bush. Obama is increasing the Military spending and invasions for the Empire with no goals in sight and certainly no legal declaration of war or justification, recall no WMDs, no evidence of Osama Bin Laden involvement in any 911 attack-FBI says no evidence of Bin Laden involvement in any terror since 1998, he likely died in 2001. The invasion of Afghanistan was planned in advance of 2001. I wonder why opium production has increased 12 fold since our invasion? Reportedly there are about 100 al queda but we spend billions on each while failing to stop any of them them yet we imprisoned and tortured children such as Omar Kahdr who was a child shot in back twice and then tortured for years and now in a trial that few know or care about?

The critics of the Admin are critical of the financial management of the Federal Reserve which has no oversight and no formal public accounting yet required trillions from you to bailout banks who somehow then achieved record profits all off our backs, critical of the Health Care passage without a review of the legislation and without a vote, critical of expanding the Military Industrial Complex and Empire without justification, critical of murder of millions of Iraqi women and children for no stated reason and pollution of the entire region for endless generations with Depleated Uranium, critical of the treatment of US Military troops who are suffering without adequate care, critical of drone killings and collateral murder of civilians. There have been few if any mentions critical of race which is an absurd notion certainly and not justifiable, except perhaps by you? Why do you insist on blaming racism for the popular discontent with the Whitehouse? You are the only one I have even heard suggesting race is an issue.

Can you accept that there is criticism of failed policies that have in fact bankrupted our budget, millions of US bankruptcies and caused irreparable worldwide financial harm with no goals except more murder and more military spending and further expansion of the US Military bases and more bombs?

Howard can you at least consider focusing on asking yourself what your values are? Do you value giving up everything we have in order to fund the Empire? Did you ever study the Roman Empire? Did you ever see the movie the Gladiator which illustrates an analogy to our current failing Empire? Do you really still believe in hope and change via military expansion of the empire all the while your individual rights which this country was founded upon and the American dream are dismissed as irrelevant and more people worldwide are bankrupt?

Do you have compassion for others?


[Edited on 5-10-2010 by gnukid]

gnukid - 5-9-2010 at 07:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oxxo
... my neighbor who hires illegals but refruses to pay taxes or minimum wage...............need I go on?


Can you explain why you think that being unwilling to pay taxes or minimum wage is racist? That is an economic issue and certainly criminal though in no way connotes racism.

And you state 50% of Americans are Racist but there is no evidence to back that up except your statement. To be clear howard's suggestion is criticism of obama is racist which is the main stream media message yet not demonstratable. The issue is clear, the whitehouse is failing and we are being bankrupted-that is not a race issue.

[Edited on 5-10-2010 by gnukid]

oxxo - 5-9-2010 at 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Can you explain why you think that being unwilling to pay taxes or minimum wage is racist? That is an economic issue and certainly criminal though in no way connotes racism.


No not because they don't pay taxes but because they say that Mexicans deserve less pay because they can live on less money. They say they deserve less pay because they are here illegally. They say that Americans work hard for their money and Mexicans don't. It's pretty racist.

Quote:
And you state 50% of Americans are Racist but there is no evidence to back that up except your statement.


No, I didn't say 50% of Americans were racists, I said about 50% of the people I know personally. Don't extrapolate from those numbers, it is just my personal experience.

Quote:
To be clear howard says criticism of obama is racist


I'll let Howard speak for himself, but that's not the way I read what he wrote.

[Edited on 5-10-2010 by oxxo]

gnukid - 5-9-2010 at 08:32 PM

Good luck with those family and friends.

Regardless of both of your hyperbole about racism (that you observe), it is not an issue of any significance that relates to the failures of the Obama or Bush Administration which created and continue a murderous Military expansion and allow illegal immigration of more 30,000,000 people in the USA to support a ever failing Empire. The military is made up largely of foreigners who either arrive as illegal aliens and are promised citezenship and much more to serve in the invasions and to serve corporations, or serve as cooperating foreigner forces, both polices which hurt everyone of us and people worldwide. These failed Federal policies must end regardless of whether they are called left or right they are the same, they hurt the immigrants, they hurt everyone.

Oxxo, Howard and your comments are in parallel citing racism as a source of criticism or failure which is clearly a distraction from criticism of the failures of Federal policies which are hurting everyone of us.

Consider

Individual Rights
Empire
Military
Bailout
Bankruptcy
Infrastructure
Immigration



[Edited on 5-10-2010 by gnukid]

Huh ?

MrBillM - 5-9-2010 at 09:01 PM

"The military is made up largely of foreigners who arrive as illegal aliens and are promised much to serve in the invasions and to serve corporations, both polices which hurt everyone of us and people worldwide".

What a Bizarrely ODD and Deluded thought with NO basis in reality.

The U.S. military is around 80 percent White/Black.

Largely Illegals ? Did they sneak in from Canada ?

mtgoat666 - 5-9-2010 at 09:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Howard if you want to believe that critics of the current administration are just racist that is your choice though there is no evidence that it is the case, only hype on TV.

There are Critics of the Admin who say the current Admin is continuing the same policies as the last, in fact if you like Obama then you would love Bush. Obama is increasing the Military spending and invasions for the Empire with no goals in sight and certainly no legal declaration of war or justification, recall no WMDs, no evidence of Osama Bin Laden involvement in any attack-FBI says no evidence of Bin Laden involvement in any terror, he likely died in 2001. The invasion of Afghanistan was planned in advance of 2001. I wonder why opium production has increased 12 fold since our invasion? Reportedly there are about 100 al queda but we spend billions on each while failing to stop any of them them yet we imprisoned and tortured children such as Omar Kahdr who was a child shot in back twice and then tortured for years and now in a trial that few know or care about?

The critics of the Admin are critical of the financial management of the Federal Reserve which has no oversight and no formal public accounting yet required trillions from you to bailout banks who somehow then achieved record profits all off our backs, critical of the Health Care passage without a review of the legislation and without a vote, critical of expanding the Military Industrial Complex and Empire without justification, critical of murder of millions of Iraqi women and children for no stated reason and pollution of the entire region for endless generations with Depleated Uranium, critical of the treatment of US Military troops who are suffering without adequate care, critical of drone killings and collateral murder of civilians. There have been few if any mentions critical of race which is an absurd notion certainly and not justifiable, except perhaps by you? Why do you insist on blaming racism for the popular discontent with the Whitehouse? You are the only one I have even heard suggesting race is an issue.

Can you accept that there is criticism of failed policies that have in fact bankrupted our budget, millions of US bankruptcies and caused irreparable worldwide financial harm with no goals except more murder and more military spending and further expansion of the US Military bases and more bombs?

Howard can you at least consider focusing on asking yourself what your values are? Do you value giving up everything we have in order to fund the Empire? Did you ever study the Roman Empire? Did you ever see the movie the Gladiator which illustrates an analogy to our current failing Empire? Do you really still believe in hope and change via military expansion of the empire all the while your individual rights which this country was founded upon and the American are dismissed as irrelevant and more people are bankrupt?

Do you have compassion for others?

[Edited on 5-10-2010 by gnukid]


newkid,
we love you for your lunatic conspiracy theories, but it is sometimes hard to take your rantings knowing that you are a corporate checkout or trust fund baby who checked out to smoke dope on the beach. your criticism of obama is misplaced. your subscription to new world order trilateral commission conspiracy is quaint but is outdated conservative conspiratorial pablum from 1970s. your conviction that majority of US armed forces are immigrants tricked into consription is wrong.

the world runs in mysterious ways, but it is anot all a puppet game orchestrated by multinational corporations. ya, the multinat corps pull political strings and make the politicians dance, but most social movements are still grass roots movements.

p.s. your theory that bin laden died in 2001 is bonkers. he is alive and well and is only so because the US military has almost zero control over afganistan and pakistan, has almost zero intelligence capabilities in afganistan and pakistan, and is and always be on losing end of game in afganistan and pakistan. US public thinks domination of the air in afganistan relates to ground control. US has zero control over afganistan on the ground and will be leaving afghanistan same way the soviets left.
on this you and i agree, obama is making a mistake staying in afganistan. he should have cut and run. it is an unwinnable quagmire.

[Edited on 5-10-2010 by mtgoat666]

gnukid - 5-9-2010 at 09:16 PM

Bill,

In addition to foreign recruits, and those given citizenship for signup, our Military is increasingly running troop operations and exercises with foreign troops-remember the coalition of the willing was a multinational US led invasion. The numbers of foreigners within our troops are increasing, this isn't new, recall the foreign legion, but it is increasing. They need more bodies to serve the Empire.

NY Times U.S. military to recruit temporary visa holders with offer of citizenship

Boston Globe Military considers recruiting foreigners Expedited citizenship would be an incentive

DOD Military Recruits Non-citizen Health Care Workers, Linguists

U.S. Army To Recruit Foreigners

La Times Army extends immigrant recruiting

The Foreign Born in the Armed Services

Washington Post

Furthermore, military contractors exceed the number of enlisted according to a recent Congressional Research Service report, stated as of Jan 2010 67% of the Pentagon workforce are contractors and most are foreigners. In Afghanistan Military contractors make up 104,101 vs 63,950 enlisted. A NPR report stated in 2007 the majority of Military contractors are foreigners.

In addition to beginning to understand the increasingly foreign nature of our CENTCOM Military and our National makeup, along with somewhere from 30-50 million illegal immigrants, our Whitehouse is made up of a large number of dual citizens, mostly Israeli dual citizens who have allegiance to foreign nations:

Israeli Dual Citizens in the Obama Whitehouse.


Think about it, nothing wrong with immigrating to the USA or to Mexico but that is not what is happening. The US are using foreigners to weaken the Constitution, confuse our National sovereignty and reduce individual human rights.

This data referenced demonstrates that the US military is largely foreign based.

Bill I wrote this for you, not to insult you or to tell you are wrong, but instead, to encourage you to do some research where you may be uninformed about an issue which is important to your sense of well being. If you don't understand the truth around you you can not respond to problems affecting you. You can thank me when you finish reading all the references and understand how being misinformed hurts your ability to respond to your world and your ability to interpret false media messages.


[Edited on 5-10-2010 by gnukid]

gnukid - 5-9-2010 at 09:36 PM

Goat

There are facts.

You can read what has been reported, you can decide for yourself but please do not project your frustrations and misunderstanding upon me over the confusing state of affairs of which we suffer today as a result of this chaos and distraction.

Osama Bin Laden was never indicted for crimes of terrorism for 911. The FBI stated there is no evidence linking Osama Bin Laden to 911 and he is not on the most wanted list for 911. Bin Laden was reported to be very ill from Kidney failure in 2001-2002. I know this comes as a surprise to many including me. Bin laden was a close friend and associate of the Bush family, as was well reported his family were flown out of the US after 911 and their plane was the only plane allowed to fly. There is no evidence Bin is alive or had involvement in 911 terrorism. If you have it show it. Any one should recall when Cheney said Bin Laden is not wanted for 911 and Bush said we never attributed 911 to Bin Laden those are so often mistated. Do you recall the CIA said there were no WMDs in Iraq and we still invaded Iraq for no stated reason?

Furthermore it does shock me how poorly informed many posters are here, as is demonstrated daily yet those who are so clearly misinformed never seem to see that the US news is misleading you with propaganda. There are reports of facts but you seem to forget quickly. There is a big difference between 'might have', 'could have' and a stated verifiable fact. The US news makes many 'suggestions' without substantiated facts which leads to a great deal of confusion. Does this bother you at all? Try reading foreign news.

Contrary to your fantasy that I am a trust funder, I am not, in fact my family history is decidedly against any form of nepotism and we all live simple and frugal lives. I work, I pay my own bills, I have many skills which serve me well from a lifetime in high tech to practical basic skills. I can work as a technical expert in IA/webapps/sound/video and IT as well as in common labor skills from construction to manufacturing design, I teach and I enjoy art, writing, painting and gardening all of which I can earn a living from and survive. I can cook, clean, dig ditches, do plumbing and electrical and fix cars, rig boats, and I enjoy sailing often. I am going to survive the chaos. I live very well on a very tight budget. I have incurred no debt. I evangelize efficiency which is my area of expertise and especially I encourage people to be informed. I sometimes work as a project coordinator for high tech long distance group projects worldwide. Instead of being an insulting and arrogant oldtimer, I urge you to consider its not too late to learn what is happening around you, get informed and do your homework, you would benefit from lifting your blinders-you could even volunteer. Turn off your tv and try reading a book and get your head around this stuff.

I like you and everyone here and my energy is purely compassion aimed at encouraging you to become informed and empowered. We are in an serious crisis. We need educated people, Mass Media is not informing you well, division is not serving you well, the Federal Admin is not serving you well.

Time Magazine Bin Laden Dead or Alive

CBS News Accused Terrorist Said To Have Had Dialysis On Sept. 10

Bush Administration knew the Whereabouts of Osama


The CIA met Bin Laden while undergoing treatment at an American Hospital

Bib Laden Funeral Reported

Bhutto confirms Bin Laden Dead

ATTORNEY GENERAL HOLDER HINTS AT BIN LADEN DEATH, FINALLY

FBI says, it has “No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11”

No Hard Evidence Connecting Bin Laden to 9/11

Bin Laden Will Never Face US Trial, Be Caught Alive: Holder

FBI Spokesman Says ‘No Hard Evidence’ Connects Bin Laden to 9/11'

CBS Bin Laden Family Evacuated

Focus on the Issues

Individual Rights
Empire
Military
Bailout
Bankruptcy
Infrastructure
Immigration

The Mass Media is pushing a divisive agenda to convince you that racism is the source of criticism of the Obama Federal Administration failures, which is false and unsubstantiated.

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." Howard Zinn

[Edited on 5-10-2010 by gnukid]

tripledigitken - 5-10-2010 at 09:26 AM

Howard,

In reading thru this thread over the weekend a statement you made amazes me.

Do you really view the majority of those that criticize Obama as Racist?

If you really do feel that way you really need to get out and talk to people, and broaden what you read and listen to.

Ken

What's good for the goose

Dave - 5-10-2010 at 09:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Turn off your tv


Turn off your computer.

What's GNU ?

MrBillM - 5-10-2010 at 10:19 AM

I'm assuming we've located another one of those people who are driving up the price of Aluminum Foil thanks to their wholesale purchases for interior insulation and Head wear.

One thing I feel the GNU-Age Illuminati fails to take into consideration in their conspiratorial musings is the fact that it is entirely likely they've actually stumbled across a world plot engineered by Aliens from a distant galaxy who have taken over the entire Political-Corporate-Banking hierarchy, replacing the key figures with Cloned Hybrids doing their bidding via beamed subliminal instructions from a distance of light-years. It's no surprise that Gnu is unaware of this vital connection since the Conquering Galaxy Time-Troopers advanced technology long-ago figured out how to beam through the aluminum safety barrier thus rendering even the fortresses of the Gnu-Ilk Gnostics vulnerable.

In the interest of better communication, education and greater GNU awareness, I will allow sufficient time for the Gnus to assimilate and understand the implications of this revelation before I go into detail over the reasons behind, and the methodology now in use, which makes it clear how the Illegal Aliens (who are, in fact, REALLY Aliens) are woven into the overall master-plan to completely enslave the Human race. What's left of it, anyway. It's getting harder and harder to tell the Clones from the Real thing.

I'm sure that we can agree that the foregoing is at least as rational and believable as the Gnu Epistle.

The TRUTH is out there.

gnukid - 5-10-2010 at 11:56 AM

Cute. Nice tribute Bill. Thanks, btw is that a cognitive disonance?

comitan - 5-10-2010 at 02:10 PM

This might interest some people.

http://www.fpif.org/articles/going_beyond_immigration_policy

k-rico - 5-10-2010 at 03:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
This might interest some people.

http://www.fpif.org/articles/going_beyond_immigration_policy


Good read, thanks comitan.

Interesting snippet:

"....with the Mexican economy floundering under the NAFTA economic model, many looked northward for their jobs. Migration to the United States doubled from the already high pre-NAFTA levels, despite stepped-up enforcement along the U.S.-Mexico border. The border crackdown not only failed to slow the influx, it paradoxically encouraged those who survived the perilous journey to stay rather than risk repeated trips for seasonal work, as many had done before.

The new migrants have found work in the United States at Smithfield and other industrial livestock operations, among other places. Undocumented workers make up an estimated one-quarter of the workforce in packing houses."

gnukid - 5-10-2010 at 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
This might interest some people.

http://www.fpif.org/articles/going_beyond_immigration_policy


Related new short film release - Amor en Tiempos de Influenza


comitan - 5-10-2010 at 04:00 PM

The border crackdown not only failed to slow the influx, it paradoxically encouraged those who survived the perilous journey to stay rather than risk repeated trips for seasonal work, as many had done before.

I think that this is the crux of the issue, because most Mexican I have Talked to and have read about don't really want to stay there just work and come home with some money.

Woooosh - 5-11-2010 at 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by comitan
This might interest some people.

http://www.fpif.org/articles/going_beyond_immigration_policy


:lol::lol:

www-ROSARITOENLANOTICIA-com.jpg - 27kB

Culling the Herd

MrBillM - 5-11-2010 at 10:24 AM

Head em Up and Move em OUT !

comitan - 5-11-2010 at 11:55 AM

Ooops wrong again, I thought someone flushed the toilet.:O:O
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