BajaNomad - The palm tree is going two feet under water

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Take it to OT, you troll....Why contaminate this board with your political stuff?

Not one political statement was made. We are talking "science, history, and facts."

Why would that upset you?

Trolls, conspirators (DK/JZ), hanger-ons (Clark) come around spouting misinformation as fact, feigning ignorance when called out.

Blab blab blab. JZ has been spouting this crap for years -- if it's not brain dead, locked down kids, it's libs perpetuating pandemic lies. Covid a hoax to these clowns.

This thread is about climate change, as much as deniers, who whine about money. Looks like MAGA MAGGOT Republicans to me.

Take it to OT guys. No respect here for your nonsense.

Ateo - 11-20-2022 at 09:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Take it to OT, you troll....Why contaminate this board with your political stuff?

Not one political statement was made. We are talking "science, history, and facts."

Why would that upset you?

It's your blatant political leanings and political affiliations that are causing you to compulsively troll others on this message board. It causes you to bump threads that ran out of energy. Don't beat around the bush here........

That is what upsets your fellow members on this board. Heck, I used to do the same things about religious ideas a few years ago when I was inserting my lack of belief in a God in every thread. It was lame and something that was not appropriate discussing with such a fervor on a Baja message board.

Before posting maybe try thinking "what am I attempting to do with my post? Am I trolling libs on a Baja website?"

I could elaborate but the surf is good..............

AKgringo - 11-20-2022 at 09:46 AM

Yeah, and remember that the original post in this thread was about the sea level in Guaymas.....Like that has something to do with the sea level in Baja! :wow:

Ok, I admit that I like to troll once in a while also.

Lee - 11-20-2022 at 10:30 AM

A troll for truth, perhaps?
Predictions are not fact... the government makes all kinds of predictions (you know like this is not inflation, but just "trasitory"). Scientists paid by the government is just more government and not always real science (the observation and study of events).
While a few of you get all worked up, the rest of us will continue to enjoy the sea right where it is... and still just inches below the palm tree for 80+ years!

Some of your posts are so right on that I'm amazed. Up to the point where your climate denier attitude kicks in.

Just another conspirator whining about government spending. Cheapskate.

RFClark - 11-20-2022 at 11:40 AM

Lee,

Saying that the “solutions” put forward to “lessen” a problem that has been over 12,000 years in the making likely won’t work and aren’t even followed by those trying to enforce them on the rest of us isn’t “denying that the climate is changing”. It’s believing that those “solutions” aren’t really going to solve the problem! It’s also recognizing that putting hypocrites in charge is a bad idea!

pacificobob - 11-20-2022 at 11:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lee

Quote: Originally posted by Ateo

Take it to OT, you troll....Why contaminate this board with your political stuff?

Not one political statement was made. We are talking "science, history, and facts."

Why would that upset you?

No respect here either.

RFClark - 11-20-2022 at 12:12 PM

PB,

Exactly what “misinformation” would I be spouting? Perhaps that most of those in the US pushing restrictive solutions on others demonstratively don’t follow them themselves?

Perhaps that they say nothing about poor wild-lands management causing fires that generate more pollution then is eliminated by years of those restrictions?

surabi - 11-20-2022 at 02:25 PM

... poor wild-lands management...

Sounds like an oxymarooon to me. Wild lands are exactly that- wild, not "managed".

JZ - 11-20-2022 at 02:37 PM

... poor wild-lands management...

Sounds like an oxymarooon to me. Wild lands are exactly that- wild, not "managed".

UCLA study:

"A new analysis led by researchers with the University of California has found the 2020 wildfires in the state put twice as much greenhouse gas emissions into the Earth’s atmosphere as the total reduction in such pollutants in California between 2003-2019."

https://ph.ucla.edu/news/press-release/2022/oct/ucla-led-stu...

The entire thing is a long con. One day the world is going to freeze over, the next a hole in the ozone is gonna get us all, then they say the seas will rise and polar bears will starve.

Now we find out a couple forest fires one Fall wiped out 15 years of GHG emission reductions and a several billion of tax spending. :lol:

[Edited on 11-21-2022 by JZ]

Ateo - 11-20-2022 at 05:08 PM

... poor wild-lands management...

Sounds like an oxymarooon to me. Wild lands are exactly that- wild, not "managed".

UCLA study:

"A new analysis led by researchers with the University of California has found the 2020 wildfires in the state put twice as much greenhouse gas emissions into the Earth’s atmosphere as the total reduction in such pollutants in California between 2003-2019."

https://ph.ucla.edu/news/press-release/2022/oct/ucla-led-stu...

The entire thing is a long con. One day the world is going to freeze over, the next a hole in the ozone is gonna get us all, then they say the seas will rise and polar bears will starve.

Now we find out a couple forest fires one Fall wipe out 15 years and a couple hundred billion of tax spending. :lol:

[Edited on 11-20-2022 by JZ]

UCLA? WE ALL KNOW that school is full of elite lib-tard scientists and the administration pushes a progressive message!!! I refuse to read such links! :lol:

:LOL:

Peace out Nomads. All the best to ya.

[Edited on 11-21-2022 by Ateo]

RFClark - 11-20-2022 at 05:41 PM

S,

Well, you and California agree. That said it’s a little hard on the towns that get burned out and the survivors or families of those killed.

willardguy - 11-20-2022 at 05:57 PM

... poor wild-lands management...

Sounds like an oxymarooon to me. Wild lands are exactly that- wild, not "managed".

UCLA study:

"A new analysis led by researchers with the University of California has found the 2020 wildfires in the state put twice as much greenhouse gas emissions into the Earth’s atmosphere as the total reduction in such pollutants in California between 2003-2019."

https://ph.ucla.edu/news/press-release/2022/oct/ucla-led-stu...

The entire thing is a long con. One day the world is going to freeze over, the next a hole in the ozone is gonna get us all, then they say the seas will rise and polar bears will starve.

Now we find out a couple forest fires one Fall wipe out 15 years and a couple hundred billion of tax spending. :lol:

[Edited on 11-20-2022 by JZ]

a Z**o that learned to stfu! we could use one of those here, way to edit azzhole :rolleyes:

mtgoat666 - 11-20-2022 at 06:18 PM

... poor wild-lands management...

Sounds like an oxymarooon to me. Wild lands are exactly that- wild, not "managed".

UCLA study:

"A new analysis led by researchers with the University of California has found the 2020 wildfires in the state put twice as much greenhouse gas emissions into the Earth’s atmosphere as the total reduction in such pollutants in California between 2003-2019."

https://ph.ucla.edu/news/press-release/2022/oct/ucla-led-stu...

The entire thing is a long con. One day the world is going to freeze over, the next a hole in the ozone is gonna get us all, then they say the seas will rise and polar bears will starve.

Now we find out a couple forest fires one Fall wipe out 15 years and a couple hundred billion of tax spending. :lol:

[Edited on 11-20-2022 by JZ]

Little man,
Since most fires are caused by man (e.g. elec lines, arson), we to conclude that fires are another GHG source we need to control, just like auto exhaust emissions.
Not sure your point about fires negates the reasons we need to continue switching to renewable energy.

RFClark - 11-20-2022 at 08:12 PM

Goat,

The study proves that if you first don't control the fires, the rest is just a waste of lives, time and money. Not a lot of government or environmentalists interested in doing anything except regulating other people’s lives yet!

Uncontrolled wildfires are a big issue in the west.

JZ - 11-20-2022 at 08:42 PM

Goat,

The study proves that if you first don't control the fires, the rest is just a waste of lives, time and money. Not a lot of government or environmentalists interested in doing anything except regulating other people’s lives yet!

Uncontrolled wildfires are a big issue in the west.

I'd love to see Mr. Spock do a video on the importance of controlled burns..

surabi - 11-20-2022 at 08:45 PM

Saying it's pointless to try to cut back on emissions because a forest fire sets things back is like deciding to have a front yard that's just a dirt patch because a car might go out of control and run onto your lawn and take out all the landscaping.

willardguy - 11-20-2022 at 09:08 PM

I'd love to see Mr. Spock do a video on the importance of controlled burns..

how can you argue with someone in the trade?

RFClark - 11-20-2022 at 10:28 PM

S,

There are fires in the west almost every year. I don’t think “might” is appropriate! I think that we could do both. Please note that we are not.

PG&E got away with murder, actually a number of murders! Why do you imagine that happened? ($$$)

JDCanuck - 11-21-2022 at 08:52 AM

Past practices in forest fire management have changed drastically recently in British Columbia. Leading the charge are native ceremonial controlled burns being reintroduced, reducing the spread of wildfires and creating natural diversity of species. Pine beetle infestations also had created a huge problem after a century of selective replanting to yield highest value logging.
In addition a large proportion of burned forests are now purposely left to spread for similar reasons.

The foresters knew this decades ago, but unfortunately they were overruled by various governments and their lobbyists.

60% of fires are caused by lightning strikes, and can be managed by fuel control and prescribed burns

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safety/wildfire-status/wi...

[Edited on 11-21-2022 by JDCanuck]

JZ - 11-21-2022 at 09:27 AM

The foresters knew this decades ago, but unfortunately they were overruled by various governments and their lobbyists.

60% of fires are caused by lightning strikes, and can be managed by fuel control and prescribed burns

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safety/wildfire-status/wi...

[Edited on 11-21-2022 by JDCanuck]

I'm shocked to hear this!!

AKgringo - 11-21-2022 at 09:40 AM

I spent all last week burning piles of dead, downed and thinned forest materials that I have been accumulating on my property since the last burn season was closed. I still have a lot of dead standing timber to take down, so I will be burning a whole lot more to try and reduce the chance of a catastrophic fire starting on my property.

There is so much bug killed, and fire killed timber on the west coast that I cannot give mine away! If anyone wants some pine, fir, and even a couple of cedar logs, come to Nevada County and I will load you up. I can tell you in advance that your truck is not big enough!

JDCanuck - 11-21-2022 at 10:01 AM

AKgringo: I notice you put a lot of thought into your personal responsibility to control your local environment...congrats and thanks from all of us. If only we could get our political influencers to do the same.

RFClark - 11-21-2022 at 10:26 AM

L,

Burning the wood as pellets releases the same CO2 as burning it in a wildfire. The best use for dead trees is as use in building products which removes the carbon from circulation for decades or longer.

AKgringo - 11-21-2022 at 11:03 AM

One thought I had was to have my neighbor mill them into rough cut, treated landscape timbers the size of railroad ties. Not in California! The wood preservatives necessary are banned in California, so I would have to ship them out of state to get them treated.

I don't think there are any plywood or particle board mills left in this state, everything headed to pulp mills is going off-shore, or out of state now.

mtgoat666 - 11-21-2022 at 11:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo

One thought I had was to have my neighbor mill them into rough cut, treated landscape timbers the size of railroad ties. Not in California! The wood preservatives necessary are banned in California, so I would have to ship them out of state to get them treated.

I don't think there are any plywood or particle board mills left in this state, everything headed to pulp mills is going off-shore, or out of state now.

It would be nice if one of you amateur loggers would cut down DK’s clump of palm trees. You could use the trunks to build a palapa, and put an end to this thread!

JDCanuck - 11-21-2022 at 12:12 PM

L,

Burning the wood as pellets releases the same CO2 as burning it in a wildfire. The best use for dead trees is as use in building products which removes the carbon from circulation for decades or longer.

I always thought it was odd to push for logging for pellet burning as environmentally friendly bio-energy while growing a tree, absorbing CO2 in the process, logging and encasing it in a building was deemed negative. New studies have proved that "environmentally beneficial" bio-energy source taxpayers funded actually creates more CO2 than burning it as waste at the source would. It also produces more CO2 than the coal fired plant it replaced. Have to wonder who got rich over that scheme.

[Edited on 11-21-2022 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 11-21-2022 at 12:50 PM

The worst idea yet pushed out to "protect the environment" by the politicians has got to be the Ethanol push. How to reduce your vehicles efficiency, boost the cost of a common feed source and create far more overall pollution in the process.
I think we need more engineers and chemists involved in the environmental decisions and far fewer politicians.

surabi - 11-21-2022 at 12:58 PM

I don't think the true owner, Rancho El Coyote, would be happy with that idea, goat.

Remember, I never said it isn't happening or that climate doesn't change... It has always changed.

You keep saying this as if you think it gives your views some sort of credibility, when in fact any reasonably intelligent 8 year old knows climate has changed throughout the history of the planet.

You do not believe in man-made climate change, nor that we should do something about that, nor in listening to scientific evidence, which are the salient points that make your views quite far from "exposing the truth".

mtgoat666 - 11-22-2022 at 08:28 AM

Food for thought (Dk, shorty: caution! This comes from a magazine with liberal editors)…

Annals of a Warming Planet
CLIMATE CHANGE FROM A TO Z
The stories we tell ourselves about the future.
by Elizabeth Kolbert
November 21, 2022
 Illustrations by Wesley Allsbrook
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/11/28/climate-change...

RFClark - 11-22-2022 at 09:06 AM

Goat,

Here’s one also from a non-technical source. It has the advantage of being animated! (The presenter is cute too!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRLXp3R7uZY

Skipjack Joe - 11-22-2022 at 10:09 AM

Are you guys just angry because I expose the truth...

No. It's because you write garbage.

RFClark - 11-22-2022 at 12:28 PM

L,

When we technicals ( Engineers and Folks who do real world things as opposed to researchers who are also very important.) can solve the current problems but can’t do so because the leaders won’t openly discuss the issues and simply state that this is how it will be, thus preventing a consensus among the general population, it’s very frustrating.

I will find and post a current article written by an MD/PHD at the Stanford school of medicine on the subject as it relates to his and other Stanford faculty members treatment by their peers, the NIH and the university administration because they dared to question the wisdom of the general lockdown imposed by the ruling political class.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11453099/Stanford-U...

[Edited on 11-22-2022 by RFClark]

[Edited on 11-22-2022 by RFClark]

Skipjack Joe - 11-23-2022 at 06:36 AM

You don't see me start any political posts ....

Yes, I do. Frequently.

rccali - 11-23-2022 at 10:52 AM

Igor, just let it go... Doug cleared away many replies in this thread and I have deleated a few, as well. I have only replied to existing politics, posted ususlly by goat. Somehow you and a few others have no problem with that political stuff, only with my (and others) replies to it. Baja Nomad should be for Baja discussion or Nomad trip reports & photos... not this!
Free speech must mean more than only left-wing disucussion allowed here.
Happy Thanksgiving!

Poor David, he's ALWAYS claiming to be the poor put upon victim here. How dare anyone have a different POV than your own.

John Harper - 11-23-2022 at 11:08 AM

Here's some information from NASA, that explains why sea level does not rise the same in all places. The satellite map shows Baja as an area with almost no rise, and even some spots around the globe with net decrease in sea level. Looks like the Western Pacific has shown the largest rises in sea level.

https://climate.nasa.gov/ask-nasa-climate/3002/sea-level-101...

Interesting article, well worth reading.

John

[Edited on 11-23-2022 by John Harper]

RFClark - 11-23-2022 at 11:55 AM

John,

After reading several of the SL101 posts the takeaway is:

We really only have about 30 years of good data as to how much the rate of change in the rise in sea level is changing.

There are a lot of things that have a far grater influence on “local mean sea level” than more or less water in the ocean.

“The ocean’s “dynamic” topography tells oceanographers the speed and direction of ocean currents in the same way that maps of atmospheric pressure are used by meteorologists to calculate the speed and direction of winds. It reveals the height of the ocean relative to the geoid, a surface where gravity is always uniformly pointed downward. The dynamic ocean topography shown in this map was created from 10 days of data from the NASA/CNES Topex/Poseidon satellite mission, and varies by about 2 meters (6.6 feet) from its highest to lowest places. The color scale corresponds to the grades of the relief in centimeters. The vertical scale is greatly exaggerated to illustrate the three-dimensional perspective of the topography. Credit NASA/JPL-Caltech“

For comparison the current thinking is that the rate of change in long term sea level rise is around .1mm/year compared to 2000mm in short term changes. That’s one part out of 20,000 or .005% change! So measuring the change in the rate of change requires even grater accuracy than .005%!

Deviations in the earth’s surface hight vary as much as 100,000mm from place to place and day to day!

The .1mm rate of change is puled out of that level of background noise!

That the sea lever has risen 150M in 12K years is a given. That the sea level has been 10s of meters higher in the distant past is also a given.

The question is what do we do about it and how will that affect a dynamic system we don’t understand yet.

[Edited on 11-23-2022 by RFClark]

surabi - 11-23-2022 at 12:44 PM

I have only replied to existing politics,

That's a lie. Just because you or Doug delete your posts where you are the first to inject your politics into a thread doesn't mean we don't see them.

RFClark - 11-23-2022 at 01:30 PM

S,

When the subject being discussed has a political component, how can it not be included in the discussion?

All,

Have you read NASA’s Sea Level 101 blog. Very interesting! The subject is far more complicated than the pols and the ecology lobby present it as being.

BajaNomad - 11-23-2022 at 02:49 PM

When the subject being discussed has a political component, how can it not be included in the discussion?

When the comments belong in off-topic, that post or comment should be ignored and reported. Period. No excuses.

Good hints that it is considered such and has no place here in the main forums... include direct or indirect reference to a specific political party (or perceived faction associated with such) of a country other than Mexico; direct or indirect reference to a politician (from a country other than Mexico) in a partisan way, etc. There's a good start at identifying such - especially such that's being noted in this thread of concern.

:biggrin:

BajaNomad - 11-23-2022 at 02:51 PM

I have only replied to existing politics,

That's a lie. Just because you or Doug delete your posts where you are the first to inject your politics into a thread doesn't mean we don't see them.

If I "inject" then that is a reply to existing politics.

I'm sure it feels that way. Please stop.

David K - 11-23-2022 at 03:20 PM

Happy to, thanks Doug!

RFClark - 11-23-2022 at 04:07 PM

Doug,

Understood, it’s your football. I hope you had a few kind words for the purveyors of pejoratives as well!

Skipjack Joe - 11-24-2022 at 11:08 AM

Doug,

Understood, it’s your football. I hope you had a few kind words for the purveyors of pejoratives as well!

"purveyors of the pejoratives" - now that's something you don't hear in everyday conversation.

Lobsterman - 11-24-2022 at 11:26 AM

"Purveyors of the Pejoratives" A person that habitually provides a word or phrase that has negative connotations or that is intended to disparage or belittle.

Nobody on this board cuz that's what little, insecure boys do in grade school!

AKgringo - 11-24-2022 at 11:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe

Doug,

Understood, it’s your football. I hope you had a few kind words for the purveyors of pejoratives as well!

"purveyors of the pejoratives" - now that's something you don't hear in everyday conversation.

Right up there with "Nattering Nabobs of negativism" (Spiro Agnew)

RFClark - 11-24-2022 at 11:50 AM

Guys,

Doug said to report them not respond to them. I hope he reads the reports or better yet there’s nothing to report.

Personally I’d rather discuss the YL with the “unique cellphone holder” who appears from time to time at the bottom of the page. In fact she’s there now!

Don Pisto - 11-24-2022 at 11:54 AM

Guys,

Doug said to report them not respond to them. I hope he reads the reports or better yet there’s nothing to report.

Personally I’d rather discuss the YL with the “unique cellphone holder” who appears from time to time at the bottom of the page. In fact she’s there now!

you do know not everyone sees the same ads........

mtgoat666 - 11-24-2022 at 11:54 AM

Clarkie,
The ads you see are based on your surfing history captured by cookies on your ‘puter. If you are seeing ads for porn, it’s because you are surfing too much porn.

RFClark - 11-24-2022 at 12:15 PM

Goat,

It’s a world cup related series of pictures of fans from various countries. Next time I see it I’ll grab it and post it. If I’’m the only one seeing it. Then as Peter James used to say “God is smiling!”

surabi - 11-24-2022 at 12:44 PM

Goat,

It’s a world cup related series of pictures of fans from various countries. Next time I see it I’ll grab it and post it. If I’’m the only one seeing it. Then as Peter James used to say “God is smiling!”

No such ad appears to me. As Goat says, the ads you see are targeted to your search history.

Don Pisto - 11-24-2022 at 03:05 PM

uh oh

the ad I get is for "most trusted hospice care"

TMW - 11-24-2022 at 04:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Clarkie,
The ads you see are based on your surfing history captured by cookies on your ‘puter. If you are seeing ads for porn, it’s because you are surfing too much porn.

Whats wrong with that?

RFClark - 11-24-2022 at 06:05 PM

All,

Since it was a world Cup picture, it's now posted at Goat’s World Cup Topic. It’s not “inappropriate” in my opinion. See it for yourself in case it goes away.

JZ - 11-25-2022 at 08:56 AM

Interesting story. Without climate change there would be no polar beer. Who knew?

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRCY5XF5/

AKgringo - 11-25-2022 at 09:08 AM

Interesting story. Without climate change there would be no polar beer. Who knew?

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRCY5XF5/

What is the source of the "Polar Beer" you speak of?

JZ - 11-25-2022 at 09:19 AM

Lol.

RFClark - 11-25-2022 at 01:05 PM

Lee,

I’m not sure if making the observation that most teaching institutions don’t encourage thinking outside the box and haven’t since at least the ‘60s is a no-no.

I think the problem here is similar to the problem experienced elsewhere in the past. That is that the school marks the student is often overlooked and even exalted by the instructors and graduates. It’s not seen as a limiting factor in dealing with unforeseen circumstances encountered in the real world.

The above is meant to be as apolitical as possible. Most all training methods can be guilty of doing it.

elgatoloco - 11-25-2022 at 03:39 PM

:lol:

RFClark - 11-25-2022 at 07:16 PM

Goat,

I rate the National Enquirer above the NYT!

JDCanuck - 11-25-2022 at 08:22 PM

This video was sourced from Dr Patrick Moore, one of the original founders and past chairman for years of Greenpeace back when they were about saving whales and improving the global environment for human occupancy.
Also the only actual environmental scientist to lead the organization.
Not someone to write off I think. And yes, polar bears have become so highly populated in arctic Canada to be a problem during global warming. They seem to thrive under warmer temperatures despite all the warnings.

JDCanuck - 11-25-2022 at 08:32 PM

Polar bear population as of latest census 2020-2021:
https://www.cnsnews.com/article/international/quinn-weimer/r...

(CNS News) – Although the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) contends that melting sea ice, caused by global warming, is causing the polar bear population to decrease, a new report by evolutionary biologist Dr. Susan Crockford reveals that the global population of polar bears is “now almost 30,000 – up from 26,000 in 2015.”
“This is only a slight-to-moderate increase, but it is far from the precipitous decline polar bear experts expected given a drop of almost 50% in sea-ice levels since 1979,” says Crawford. “This indicates summer sea-ice levels are not as critical to polar bear survival as USGS biologists assumed.Despite 2020 having had the second lowest September ice extent since 1979 (after 2012), there were no reports from anywhere around the Arctic that would suggest polar bears were suffering as a result: no starving bears, no drowning bears, and no marked increases in bear conflicts with humans.”

The original full report is here if you are interested in the actual science:
https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2021/02/Crockford-Po...

[Edited on 11-26-2022 by JDCanuck]

JZ - 11-25-2022 at 08:57 PM

This video was sourced from Dr Patrick Moore, one of the original founders and past chairman for years of Greenpeace back when they were about saving whales and improving the global environment for human occupancy.
Also the only actual environmental scientist to lead the organization.
Not someone to write off I think. And yes, polar bears have become so highly populated in arctic Canada to be a problem during global warming. They seem to thrive under warmer temperatures despite all the warnings.

He says it is well understood that glacier patterns change in 100,000 year cycles. From more to less ice. We are 20,000 years into a warming cycle.

JDCanuck - 11-25-2022 at 09:48 PM

"Patrick Moore, Ph.D. served as Chair of the CO2 Coalition in 2019 and 2020. He is co-founder and 15-year leader of Greenpeace (1971-1986). Chairman and Chief Scientist, Ecosense Environmental. Leader, Campaign to Allow Golden Rice Now.

Dr. Patrick Moore has been a leader in the international environmental field for over 40 years. He is a co-founder of Greenpeace and served for nine years as President of Greenpeace Canada and seven years as a Director of Greenpeace International. As the leader of many campaigns Dr. Moore was a driving force shaping policy and direction for 15 years while Greenpeace became the world’s largest environmental activist organization."

I agree Moore has been at odds with the environmentalist fund raising groups for a few years now. Ever since he began working with industry to alter their practices as a consultant here in BC after leaving his position in Greenpeace. They now see him as a sellout as he works for mutually beneficial practices for both the environment and the economy. I like opposing discussions from various scientists of what is occurring, they do not.
We have seen the results of suppression of opposing science based views from mainstream beliefs in the past, and I think we are presently running the danger of repeating those errors if we continue as we presently are. The polar bear controversy is a good example of that.

[Edited on 11-26-2022 by JDCanuck]

John Harper - 11-26-2022 at 07:01 AM

Goat,

I rate the National Enquirer above the NYT!

So, which news sources do you trust? It's always easy to criticize, without having to propose any alternatives. You only address half an issue?

Epoch Times? USA Today? Fox News? New York Post? WSJ? TikTok? Facebook? Truth Social? Weekly Reader?

Come on, let's hear your most trusted source(s) of information. Enquiring minds want to know.

John

[Edited on 11-26-2022 by John Harper]

pauldavidmena - 11-26-2022 at 07:27 AM

My employer, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, was part of an international expedition to Antarctica to assess the impact of climate change on the habitat of Emperor Penguins. Who knew that the canary in the coalmine was dressed in a tuxedo? Here is a recent article about the trip from the WHOI website.

surabi - 11-26-2022 at 08:31 AM

They now see him as a sellout as he works for mutually beneficial practices for both the environment and the economy. I like opposing discussions from various scientists of what is occurring, they do not.

[Edited on 11-26-2022 by JDCanuck]

When a scientist is being paid as an industry lobbyist, their "opposing discussion" is highly suspect. Money corrupts, as we well know.

RFClark - 11-26-2022 at 09:06 AM

S,

As are scientists who’s funding is derived from government institutions that have already decided what the problem is and what the answers are!

JDCanuck - 11-26-2022 at 09:43 AM

When a scientist is being paid as an industry lobbyist, their "opposing discussion" is highly suspect. Money corrupts, as we well know.

How would you relate "money corrupts" to an industry whose entire source of income relies on shock tactics to amplify problems they claim to be fighting and collecting donations on?
I see a whole lot of improvement in the industries they claim as the enemy, very little signs of improvement from the influencers pointing the finger.
Industry and the massive number of engineers they employ to provide solutions created the hydro power wind power and solar power slowly replacing fossil fuels. Yet they remain the primary target of accusations.
Kudos to the practical environmental Scientists that are working with them to move us forward.

[Edited on 11-26-2022 by JDCanuck]

RFClark - 11-26-2022 at 12:04 PM

John,

I don’t “trust” any single news outlet without crosschecking the story. I don’t bother to read the WP or the NYT. I generally don’t watch on-air news unless I can’t find the story in print.

I read BBC’s World Service, Aljazeera, the Jerusalem Post, the South China News, DW, CBC, Reuters, Sky News and the Daily Mail for general news. I read others that are free. I read multiple stories on the same subject. I also read specific outlets on technical subjects like NASA.

Yes, I occasionally watch Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddow!

All writing has built in cultural bias. If there were non-human sources I would read them too! There was a time when Scientists were called “Natural Philosophers” for me a “Philosophy” is a view of the world around you that explains actions in terms of repeatable results and allows you to anticipate outcomes without relying on magic!

I find that that view is considered “quaint” today where wishing it makes so! It is still worth remembering that wishing and believing that you can fly won’t turn out well unless you have more then feelings going for you!

elgatoloco - 11-26-2022 at 01:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena

My employer, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, was part of an international expedition to Antarctica to assess the impact of climate change on the habitat of Emperor Penguins. Who knew that the canary in the coalmine was dressed in a tuxedo? Here is a recent article about the trip from the WHOI website.

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

About Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) is a private, non-profit organization on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, dedicated to marine research, engineering, and higher education. Established in 1930, its primary mission is to understand the ocean and its interaction with the Earth as a whole, and to communicate an understanding of the ocean’s role in the changing global environment. WHOI’s pioneering discoveries stem from an ideal combination of science and engineering—one that has made it one of the most trusted and technically advanced leaders in basic and applied ocean research and exploration anywhere. WHOI is known for its multidisciplinary approach, superior ship operations, and unparalleled deep-sea robotics capabilities. We play a leading role in ocean observation and operate the most extensive suite of data-gathering platforms in the world. Top scientists, engineers, and students collaborate on more than 800 concurrent projects worldwide—both above and below the waves—pushing the boundaries of knowledge and possibility. For more information, please visit www.whoi.edu

John Harper - 11-26-2022 at 06:51 PM

John,

I don’t “trust” any single news outlet without crosschecking the story. I don’t bother to read the WP or the NYT. I generally don’t watch on-air news unless I can’t find the story in print.

I read BBC’s World Service, Aljazeera, the Jerusalem Post, the South China News, DW, CBC, Reuters, Sky News and the Daily Mail for general news. I read others that are free. I read multiple stories on the same subject. I also read specific outlets on technical subjects like NASA.

Yes, I occasionally watch Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddow!

All writing has built in cultural bias. If there were non-human sources I would read them too! There was a time when Scientists were called “Natural Philosophers” for me a “Philosophy” is a view of the world around you that explains actions in terms of repeatable results and allows you to anticipate outcomes without relying on magic!

I find that that view is considered “quaint” today where wishing it makes so! It is still worth remembering that wishing and believing that you can fly won’t turn out well unless you have more then feelings going for you!

Sounds like we have a lot in common. But, I've never ascribed to a world see through rose colored glasses, or wishing. Just dealing with reality, not hoping for deliverance.

John

JDCanuck - 11-26-2022 at 09:18 PM

I don't think Engineers typically look at things through rose covered glasses, we look ahead for possible problems and try to engineer in practical solutions before they happen.
It's not an exact science and mistakes get made. IMHO opinion, Politicians on the other hand look at solutions already being instituted and think how they can take credit for them.

RFClark - 11-26-2022 at 10:04 PM

John,

The Tacoma Narrows Bridge was designed by an engineer wearing rose colored glasses. Murphy will always outbid your worst nightmares!

“I’m from the government and I’m here to help you”, is the second greatest lie. Doug wouldn’t like it if I posted the greatest lie here so you’ll have to guess!

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2022 at 08:44 AM

pauldavidmena - 11-27-2022 at 09:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by elgatoloco

Quote: Originally posted by pauldavidmena

Thank you for pointing out this text from the WHOI website. After over 35 years working in aerospace, financial services and high-tech, it's been refreshing to part of an organization trying to contribute to our collective understanding of the ocean.

The funding model of WHOI is fairly interesting: a Principal Investigator (PI), usually a scientist, writes a proposal to undertake a specific research project, including resources, time frame and budget. Board members then vote on the proposal, which moves forward if and when it's approved. Early on, the largest source of funding by far was the U.S. Navy. WHOI's first Navy project was to produce a foul-proof paint for the bottom of Naval vessels. Its first major use of a robotic device was to locate a nuclear warhead that had been dropped to the bottom of the Mediterranean in 1966. Since the end of the Cold War, non-military sources of funding have increased, with the National Science Foundation leading the way. Philanthropic giving has also increased over the years, as have partnerships with private corporations.

JZ - 11-27-2022 at 09:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

Poster child for how insane this grift is.

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2022 at 09:54 AM

Fun facts about Polar Bears.....

AKgringo - 11-27-2022 at 10:01 AM

They are not really white! their hair is translucent, which allows sunlight to pass through and warm their skin, which is blackish. :wow:

One more thing, Polar Bears don't need ice flows, seals do. The bears go out to hunt seals resting on the ice (advantage, seals).

If there is no ice, the seals have to come ashore to rest and warm up (advantage, bears)

[Edited on 11-27-2022 by AKgringo]

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2022 at 10:20 AM

What is the sixth mass extinction?

A mass extinction is a short period of geological time in which a high percentage of biodiversity, or distinct species—bacteria, fungi, plants, mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, invertebrates—dies out. In this definition, it’s important to note that, in geological time, a ‘short’ period can span thousands or even millions of years. The planet has experienced five previous mass extinction events, the last one occurring 65.5 million years ago which wiped out the dinosaurs from existence. Experts now believe we’re in the midst of a sixth mass extinction.

Unlike previous extinction events caused by natural phenomena, the sixth mass extinction is driven by human activity, primarily (though not limited to) the unsustainable use of land, water and energy use, and climate change.

RFClark - 11-27-2022 at 11:17 AM

Goat,

It’s not that simple. Here’s a timeline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events

In other news. California is issuing permits to cut Christmas trees for the 1st time. The bad forest management pain finally reached SAC.

JDCanuck - 11-27-2022 at 11:24 AM

It appears while growth is decent we have a long way to go in NA BEV sales. California had a fair concentration of Tesla Model 3's strung along I5 last time we drove down along with a surprisingly high number of under utilized charging stations:
https://insideevs.com/news/623664/record-market-share-evs-us...

[Edited on 11-27-2022 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2022 at 11:25 AM

[Edited on 11-27-2022 by mtgoat666]

[Edited on 11-27-2022 by mtgoat666]

elgatoloco - 11-27-2022 at 11:29 AM

Goat,

It’s not that simple. Here’s a timeline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events

In other news. California is issuing permits to cut Christmas trees for the 1st time. The bad forest management pain finally reached SAC.

Nearly all of California’s 33 million acres of forested land are owned by the federal government (19 million acres or 57%), private timber companies (5 million acres) and tens of thousands of private landowners (9 million acres). The State of California owns less than 3% of the forested land. The traditional role of the state and local agencies in managing forests has been limited.

https://advocacy.calchamber.com/policy/issues/forest-managem...

JDCanuck - 11-27-2022 at 11:35 AM

Is there some regulation that prevents states from managing the federal owned lands within their states? Perhaps it's time to allow them to manage their own resources rather than being prevented by federal agencies?
Seems to be an odd system, as up here, the provinces have control and accountability for managing their resources. The federal government kicks in with additional funding when necessary.

[Edited on 11-27-2022 by JDCanuck]

RFClark - 11-27-2022 at 11:43 AM

Crazy Cat,

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-managing-its...

The pain has reached SAC and now what about D.C?

JDCanuck - 11-27-2022 at 11:52 AM

Clearing out underbrush around power lines and transformers rail lines and hiways seems like a no brainer to me, its done here regularly to prevent fires.

Why would anyone take exception to that?

Arson is another growing problem....how do you prevent crazies from wanting to start fires for their twisted purposes? Our most recent large local wildfire was caused by someone purposing lighting a wood storage pile at a licensed logging site for "shock effect". What they were trying to accomplish is beyond me.

The massive number of rail shunts attempting to derail fuel trains in Whatcom county WA (eventually effective in causing a fuel train derailment and fires) is another good example of crazies seeking to force their position on a society.

[Edited on 11-27-2022 by JDCanuck]

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2022 at 11:55 AM

“Science is the process and the body of knowledge that enables us humans to know nature. So far, it’s the best idea we’ve ever had.”

[Edited on 11-27-2022 by mtgoat666]

mtgoat666 - 11-27-2022 at 11:58 AM

Clearing out underbrush around power lines and transformers seems like a no brainer to me, its done here regularly to prevent fires.

Why would anyone take exception to that?

No one takes exception to that!

JZ - 11-27-2022 at 12:03 PM

Will ppl acknowledge this uncomfortable situation?

[Edited on 11-27-2022 by JZ]

elgatoloco - 11-27-2022 at 12:05 PM

https://ccst.us/california-wildfires-lessons-from-field-work...

“The San Pedro Martir is the most resilient forest that I have ever seen,” Dr. Stephens told me. “We continue to work there to learn more about it and have used information from this area to inform California forest management.”

https://nature.berkeley.edu/stephenslab/

We listened to a talk by Dr. Stephens some years ago and were inspired to visit SPDM and it was eye opening to see the difference compared to any other forest we had ever visited. My family had a cabin in Ruidoso, NM and the surrounding Apache-Mescalero forest was managed closer to the way SPDM was so that most forest fires were not devasting. Science is constantly learning and hopefully those in charge will listen and learn too.

JZ - 11-27-2022 at 12:07 PM

Ruidoso is the t!ts. Sweet little town.

JDCanuck - 11-27-2022 at 12:21 PM

Thanks Elgatoloco: That forest appears to be in the area that NASA satellite pictures show especially extensive greening in recent years. Nice to see something positive posted. One of the other great bits of news to come out recently was NASA's study showing global greening exceeding 20% in past 3 decades. How much CO2 enhancement played into that is not known. So far credit has been given entirely to replanting efforts.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/greening-of-the-earth-mitigates...
"The greening of the lands during the first fifteen years in the 21st century represented an additional heat dissipation (2.97×1021 J) from the surface equivalent to five times the total energy produced and used by humans in 2015 (5.71×1020 J). This greening-induced cooling effect was twenty-five times stronger than the warming effect caused by tropical deforestation."

[Edited on 11-27-2022 by JDCanuck]

JDCanuck - 11-27-2022 at 01:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666