BajaNomad

Mark & Olivia; Playa Buenaventura

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Woooosh - 3-7-2012 at 09:26 AM

If this is "case closed" (doubtful imho), what are the next actions by Mark and the Cowgirl? Do they give the house back to XPBres? What does this mean in reality to the people who invested money in improvements there? You still can't buy or sell Federal Zone and how did the Hotel end up within ejido boundaries?

What would have been great was for that area to be developed the way the article says it was headed: "Grupo Carso had submitted a project to build a sailing resort on Bahia Concepcion, which include villas, hotels, restaurants and other attractions." But all of Baja was headed that direction before the economy tanked I suppose.

mtgoat666 - 3-7-2012 at 09:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
If this is "case closed" (doubtful imho), what are the next actions by Mark and the Cowgirl? Do they give the house back to XPBres? What does this mean in reality to the people who invested money in improvements there? You still can't buy or sell Federal Zone and how did the Hotel end up within ejido boundaries?

What would have been great was for that area to be developed the way the article says it was headed: "Grupo Carso had submitted a project to build a sailing resort on Bahia Concepcion, which include villas, hotels, restaurants and other attractions." But all of Baja was headed that direction before the economy tanked I suppose.


the "black hand" has been awfully quiet. i guess he is hiding in shame, eh? (though that may not be the case as i understand that psychopaths are incapable of feeling shame...)

latina - 3-7-2012 at 10:41 AM

Finally! It sure took long enough... Someone referred to Muñoz as smart; I don't think so. He only has himself to blame for being exposed. He couldn't control his ego and let his overinflated self-importance stir up attention in the newspapers, drawing attention to himself and his credibility or lack thereof...

As for improvements on leased land, generally speaking when you lease land any improvements you make stay with the land and if you decide to cancel your lease or your lease is cancelled because you break your contract, the leasehold improvements remain the property of the lessor, not the lessee. As far as I know that is the way it is in all of North America.

Woooosh - 3-7-2012 at 11:06 AM

I really can't believe Raphael was stupid enough to present a Veracruz title for Playa Buenavanetura. If this case were that simple, it would not have taken 10 years to figure it out. The key year is 1992- when the President of Mexico apparently cancelled all the ejidos- which allowed people to snatch up the lands as private property (and I am not even 50% sure I understand what happened in that decree). I think this is the area Raphael exploited to gain control.

In 1993 Raphael's group literally bought the coastline of Rosarito Beach (From the CFE plant all the way south to Rene's trailer park). He has produced a payment receipt that matches the map for the area. Raphael forced one of the nightclubs in Downtown Rosarito to rent the land from him- when Hugo Torres tried to sell it. Same confusing time frame.

SFandH - 3-7-2012 at 11:15 AM

There was a post maybe 2 weeks ago by one of the Americans involved where he stated that the title Munoz had was shown in court to be a title for land elsewhere. So this is not new info.

The poster went on to say that he thought the battle was over because of that but in fact what happened is that the case is still in the courts and Munoz is still claiming ownership. Perhaps the subject decision is being appealed.

SFandH - 3-7-2012 at 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
The key year is 1992- when the President of Mexico apparently cancelled all the ejidos- which allowed people to snatch up the lands as private property......


My understanding is a process was devised where upon agreement of ejido members the ejido could "privatize" the land. The process includes surveying of the land to create parcels, the creation of titles for each parcel, and then the awarding of the parcels to members of the ejido using a lottery. Members can either keep or sell the parcels they are awarded. Typically there are more parcels than members and each member is awarded multiple parcels. It's a time consuming process that can takes years to accomplish. I watched it happen at Cerritos near Todos Santos.


[Edited on 3-7-2012 by SFandH]

Interesting

bajaguy - 3-7-2012 at 11:38 AM

Excerpts from the Zeta article (who probably doesn't have a dog in this fight)...............form your own conclusions:

…..in an attempt to take property by force, using armed persons……

……Rafael Muñoz Martinez, alias "The Black Hand" …….. having lost a case, tried to take the building violently, using armed people……………

……..Rafael Muñoz Martinez and another businessman named Juan Ernesto Corona, who had accomplished the dispossession of property and land were sold to individuals, and who were never required because, as explained at the time, Fernando Gonzalez Rubio, former head of the PGJE, the affected-"had orders from above not to intervene."…………..

…….the National Agrarian Registry (RAN) investigated the title of Rafael Muñoz Martinez and found that papers displayed on land ownership, were of a farm in Veracruz state, so that finally, after a long process, established that the titles were apocryphal…….

…….the Tijuana businessman sent six of his henchmen to retrieve the property, two of whom were armed with pistols and shotguns and fired shots into the air when they arrived at the property, taking advantage of the darkness of the night……..

……..Data collected by ZETA exposed during the arrest the invaders opposed massive resistance to the degree that blows attacked some police officers, although they were eventually subdued and arrested……..

………Weekly data collected with this made it clear that "The Black Hand" has presented to date fourteen complaints in the Office of Special Investigations into Organized Crime (OFDI) against Olivia Higuera Aguilar alias "The Cowgirl" and her husband, Mark J . Burbey on alleged links to organized crime……However, none has done for lack of evidence…..

….. on February 5, (Olivia said) broke into my home several persons sent by him, armed and shooting bullets, and they went to rob my house and burned everything, important documents, clothes and everything. "………

……..Mr. Rafael Muñoz Martinez is dedicated to bashing the prosecutor and the governor and accuse the PGR, all because he wants to stay with the property and even forces a hotel in Ejido La Purisima who built and that some Italians feel intimidated by him, pierced society, and it turns out the man, appeared with another apocryphal document of that property……….

......"The Cowgirl" said that since the arrival of "The Black Hand," who enjoyed impunity during the administration of Narciso Agundez-the more than 340 members of the Ejido La Purisima have felt threatened by the employer, which has created a climate of uncertainty and insecurity are affected investment and tourism in the area.......

[Edited on 3-7-2012 by bajaguy]

mtgoat666 - 3-7-2012 at 11:44 AM

a good example of why mexico has no reliable title report and title insurance system.
mexico economy will never be 1st world until they make RE title reliable and insurable.

title recording and title insurance are things that made USA economy great. mexico needs it.

mexico needs a government that can reliably register titles, and needs an insurance market that can provide title insurance.

Woooosh - 3-7-2012 at 12:01 PM

I have tremendous respect for Zeta magazine. But I'm not sure the statement: "Excerpts from the Zeta article (who probably doesn't have a dog in this fight)." is accurate.

Zeta Magazine in Baja Norte (I think a different edition than the Baja Sur) is reporting they are again getting death threats from the Felix Arellano cartel (CAF) in Tijuana.

SFandH - 3-7-2012 at 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
a good example of why mexico has no reliable title report and title insurance system.
mexico economy will never be 1st world until they make RE title reliable and insurable.

title recording and title insurance are things that made USA economy great. mexico needs it.

mexico needs a government that can reliably register titles, and needs an insurance market that can provide title insurance.


Another big problem is Mexico also needs citizens that understand the basic paperwork involved in RE transactions and the necessity of formally transferring ownership and keeping the resulting paperwork. Non-documented title history, especially in rural areas of Baja that we all like, is still a problem.

But remember there are probably millions of homeowners in Mexico that don't have any problems. Almost all the problems I've heard of, especially the big problems in Baja, have been associated with what is, or has been, or was thought to be ejido land on the coast.

[Edited on 3-7-2012 by SFandH]

DENNIS - 3-7-2012 at 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Zeta Magazine in Baja Norte (I think a different edition than the Baja Sur) is reporting they are again getting death threats from the Felix Arellano cartel (CAF) in Tijuana.


I didn't know they had a BCS edition.
Anyway....don't they work out of San Diego or in the vicinity? I thought they moved up there after they tried to explode Blancornelas and his facility in TJ.

Woooosh - 3-7-2012 at 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Zeta Magazine in Baja Norte (I think a different edition than the Baja Sur) is reporting they are again getting death threats from the Felix Arellano cartel (CAF) in Tijuana.


I didn't know they had a BCS edition.
Anyway....don't they work out of San Diego or in the vicinity? I thought they moved up there after they tried to explode Blancornelas and his facility in TJ.

I don't think they are saying where their offices are located at, for obvious reasons. When the Zeta reporter contacted us a few months back, he used a TJ number. Could have been a cell phone though. I din't see this article in this weeks Zeta up here in Rosarito Beach (which came out on the 4th, not the 5th). Anyone know for sure?

Woooosh - 3-7-2012 at 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
a good example of why mexico has no reliable title report and title insurance system.
mexico economy will never be 1st world until they make RE title reliable and insurable.

title recording and title insurance are things that made USA economy great. mexico needs it.

mexico needs a government that can reliably register titles, and needs an insurance market that can provide title insurance.


Another big problem is Mexico also needs citizens that understand the basic paperwork involved in RE transactions and the necessity of formally transferring ownership and keeping the resulting paperwork. Non-documented title history, especially in rural areas of Baja that we all like, is still a problem.

But remember there are probably millions of homeowners in Mexico that don't have any problems. Almost all the problems I've heard of, especially the big problems in Baja, have been associated with what is, or has been, or was thought to be ejido land on the coast.

[Edited on 3-7-2012 by SFandH]


You are correct. The other HUGE obstacle for non-native buyers is that all documents, by law- are required to be in Spanish. You have to trust the middleman translating all the docs correctly and honestly for you if you aren't fluent at legal-level Castellón Spanish.

JoeJustJoe - 3-7-2012 at 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
I have tremendous respect for Zeta magazine. But I'm not sure the statement: "Excerpts from the Zeta article (who probably doesn't have a dog in this fight)." is accurate.

Zeta Magazine in Baja Norte (I think a different edition than the Baja Sur) is reporting they are again getting death threats from the Felix Arellano cartel (CAF) in Tijuana.


Woooosh since you seem to believe every word printed in the "Zeta Magazine" and "Zeta Magazine" gave Ramuma, aka The Black Hand a black eye and painted a very negative article towards Ramuma and his real estate fight, and that's putting it lightly.

Woooosh how do you reconcile your feverish support for Ramuma and the Turtle soup incident; the drug carrying boats, and the underage Mexican hookers that Ramuma allegedly said indeed happened, and even you Woooosh pointed to a conviction, and said M&O were convicted and that was a fact. You Woooosh implied that Ramuma had the law on his side.

So what gives Woooosh? Is "Zeta Magazine" the judge, jury, and executioner here? I ask because Woooosh you're fond of saying that "all" Rosarito Beach police are corrupt and work for the Mexican drug cartels, because "Zeta" says so.

So Woooosh what's your opinion on Ramuma and his legal case now since "Zeta magazine" has spoken, and seems to be the final word with you?

Now me I'm waiting patiently to hear what Ramuma has to say, and although I think "Zeta Magazine" should be respected. I think they also tend to be overzealous at times, and engage in sensationalizing the news like all the other media outlets.

Now I like Ramuma, and he is one of the few Nomad members I would actually like to meet, but I have always suspected his heavy handed methods, and ego. I loved his Mexican real estate knowledge, but you Woooosh I wonder how you could blindly support Ramuma over M&O when there were obvious signs something wasn't right starting withe the Turtle soup, and ending with Ramuma's hired thugs with guns.

Woooosh - 3-7-2012 at 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
I have tremendous respect for Zeta magazine. But I'm not sure the statement: "Excerpts from the Zeta article (who probably doesn't have a dog in this fight)." is accurate.

Zeta Magazine in Baja Norte (I think a different edition than the Baja Sur) is reporting they are again getting death threats from the Felix Arellano cartel (CAF) in Tijuana.


Woooosh since you seem to believe every word printed in the "Zeta Magazine" and "Zeta Magazine" gave Ramuma, aka The Black Hand a black eye and painted a very negative article towards Ramuma and his real estate fight, and that's putting it lightly.

Woooosh how do you reconcile your feverish support for Ramuma and the Turtle soup incident; the drug carrying boats, and the underage Mexican hookers that Ramuma allegedly said indeed happened, and even you Woooosh pointed to a conviction, and said M&O were convicted and that was a fact. You Woooosh implied that Ramuma had the law on his side.

So what gives Woooosh? Is "Zeta Magazine" the judge, jury, and executioner here? I ask because Woooosh you're fond of saying that "all" Rosarito Beach police are corrupt and work for the Mexican drug cartels, because "Zeta" says so.

So Woooosh what's your opinion on Ramuma and his legal case now since "Zeta magazine" has spoken, and seems to be the final word with you?

Now me I'm waiting patiently to hear what Ramuma has to say, and although I think "Zeta Magazine" should be respected. I think they also tend to be overzealous at times, and engage in sensationalizing the news like all the other media outlets.

Now I like Ramuma, and he is one of the few Nomad members I would actually like to meet, but I have always suspected his heavy handed methods, and ego. I loved his Mexican real estate knowledge, but you Woooosh I wonder how you could blindly support Ramuma over M&O when there were obvious signs something wasn't right starting withe the Turtle soup, and ending with Ramuma's hired thugs with guns.


Ya know Joe I didn't even read your post. I am tired of people attacking people on this thread and Doug has had enough to do editing out offensive content and attacks.

I thought you left this board for good ? How can we miss you, if you won't go away?

SFandH - 3-7-2012 at 01:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
You are correct. The other HUGE obstacle for non-native buyers is that all documents, by law- are required to be in Spanish. You have to trust the middleman translating all the docs correctly and honestly for you if you aren't fluent at legal-level Castellón Spanish.


Or hire an impartial translator that specializes in legal documentation or perhaps a bilingual lawyer to read the documents and advise you.

Woooosh - 3-7-2012 at 01:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFandH
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
You are correct. The other HUGE obstacle for non-native buyers is that all documents, by law- are required to be in Spanish. You have to trust the middleman translating all the docs correctly and honestly for you if you aren't fluent at legal-level Castellón Spanish.


Or hire an impartial translator that specializes in legal documentation or perhaps a bilingual lawyer to read the documents and advise you.

That is exactly right, but I wonder how many prospective buyers will spend a thousand dollars to translate a sales and title insurance contract (and then pay to have it explained to them by a real estate lawyer). Everyone should, but most sellers and developments provide their own English translations to their clients. It would be a good consulting company to start.

JoeJustJoe - 3-7-2012 at 01:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
I have tremendous respect for Zeta magazine. But I'm not sure the statement: "Excerpts from the Zeta article (who probably doesn't have a dog in this fight)." is accurate.

Zeta Magazine in Baja Norte (I think a different edition than the Baja Sur) is reporting they are again getting death threats from the Felix Arellano cartel (CAF) in Tijuana.


Woooosh since you seem to believe every word printed in the "Zeta Magazine" and "Zeta Magazine" gave Ramuma, aka The Black Hand a black eye and painted a very negative article towards Ramuma and his real estate fight, and that's putting it lightly.

Woooosh how do you reconcile your feverish support for Ramuma and the Turtle soup incident; the drug carrying boats, and the underage Mexican hookers that Ramuma allegedly said indeed happened, and even you Woooosh pointed to a conviction, and said M&O were convicted and that was a fact. You Woooosh implied that Ramuma had the law on his side.

So what gives Woooosh? Is "Zeta Magazine" the judge, jury, and executioner here? I ask because Woooosh you're fond of saying that "all" Rosarito Beach police are corrupt and work for the Mexican drug cartels, because "Zeta" says so.

So Woooosh what's your opinion on Ramuma and his legal case now since "Zeta magazine" has spoken, and seems to be the final word with you?

Now me I'm waiting patiently to hear what Ramuma has to say, and although I think "Zeta Magazine" should be respected. I think they also tend to be overzealous at times, and engage in sensationalizing the news like all the other media outlets.

Now I like Ramuma, and he is one of the few Nomad members I would actually like to meet, but I have always suspected his heavy handed methods, and ego. I loved his Mexican real estate knowledge, but you Woooosh I wonder how you could blindly support Ramuma over M&O when there were obvious signs something wasn't right starting withe the Turtle soup, and ending with Ramuma's hired thugs with guns.


Ya know Joe I didn't even read your post. I am tired of people attacking people on this thread and Doug has had enough to do editing out offensive content and attacks.

I thought you left this board for good ? How can we miss you, if you won't go away?


You of course don't have to answer me Woooosh, but I'm sure other Nomad members are thinking the same thing as I am, but probably aren't as vocal as JoeJustJoe.

I don't think I'm attacking you Woooosh, but rather asking you a legitimate question especially given the fact you're so opinionated in this thread.

The main area of Nomads isn't the sand box that the "OT" but "Zeta Magazine isn't a sand box either, but over at "Zeta" they ask hard hitting questions, and JoeJustJoe also likes to ask hard hitting questions to Nomad members that take controversy positions such as yourself Woooosh.

I also note a little hypocrisy in your statement Woooosh. You claim you are tired of people attacking people on this thread, and giving Doug editing work. However, in another thread the real estate thread. You Woooosh openly attack Tila Ortiz and drag her name through mud with all kinds of wild allegations that you claim are true. The kicker is that Ms Ortiz isn't here to defend herself, yet you bash her to no end.

You can't have it one way Woooosh where you get to attack others, but nobody could question you Wooosh.

BTW you brought me back into Nomad land, and so did this thread. Face it the best threads are always the ones where mud is flying and it gets a little personal, but there is no reason why site rules shouldn't still apply.

Woooosh - 3-7-2012 at 01:25 PM

I'm still not reading your bait-mail. It would just snowball and suck in others. I will respond to other posters who ask questions and discuss issues in an appropriate, civilized manner. But your posts I will skip over since you aren't here any more to me.

ramuma53 - 3-7-2012 at 05:27 PM

CARTA ABIERTA
H. CONGRESO DE LA UNIÓN.
C. Presidente de la Republica Lic. FELIPE CALDERÓN HINOJOSA
C. Procuradora General de Justicia MARISELA MORALES IBÁÑEZ
C. Secretario de Gobernación ALEJANDRO POIRE ROMERO
C. Gobernador del Estado de Baja California Sur MARCOS ALBERTO COBARRUBIAS VILLASENOR.
H. Congreso del Estado de Baja California sur.
C. Candidata del PAN a la Presidencia JOSEFINA VAZQUEZ MOTA
C. Candidato del PRI a la Presidencia ENRIQUE PENA NIETO
C. Candidato del PRD a la Presidencia ANDRES MANUEL LOPEZ OBRADOR

SR. PRESIDENTE DE LA REPUBLICA, me dirijo a usted con todo el respeto que merece su investidura. Baja California Sur, es el Segundo estado con mayor velocidad de crecimiento económico en México, un estado que batió marcas en número de visitantes durante la pandemia de gripe, un estado que se había mantenido al margen de la violencia.

El día 9 de Febrero cambio radicalmente esta situación, en esa fecha, el C. Sub Procurador de la Zona Norte de Justicia del Estado de Baja California Sur LIC. HUGO GALINDO CAMACHO, en compañía del Agente del Ministerio Publico del fuero Común en Mulege Baja California Sur LIC. ALOY AGUIAR YEE acompañados de los comandantes de la Policía Municipal, y 20 agentes armados, invadieron el Hotel Buenaventura, en Bahía Concepción, Municipio de Mulege, sin orden de autoridad competente y al grito de nosotros somos la Ley, deteniendo y golpeando con lujo de violencia a todos los empleados de mi hotel, incluyendo a nuestro licenciado, sin mostrar orden de autoridad ni dar explicaciones, DEJANDO BAJO UN SUPUESTO RESGUARDO, UN HOTEL QUE ES PROPIEDAD PRIVADA, INSCRITA EN EL REGISTRO PUBLICO DE LA PROPIEDAD CON SUS IMPUESTOS PAGADOS Y LIBERTAD DE GRAVAMEN Y SOLVENCIA FISCAL. Llevándose los vehículos del hotel, las armas con permiso de la SEDENA para el resguardo así como documentación original, Dejando salir sin cargos a todos, menos a mis administradores 80 horas después, Administradores quienes aún permanecen en arraigo, por que no se les ha podido formular cargos formales y mientras el Agente del Ministerio Publico LIC. ALOY AGUIAR YEE nos amenaza a mis empleados libres, que de regresar al Hotel, nos inventara todos los cargos que existan y pueda. Argumentando despojo y robo contra unos criminales conocidos y ya denunciados formalmente varias veces por esos mismos delitos con anterioridad por nosotros mismos sin resultados.

Acudimos al C. PROCURADOR DE JUSTICIA LIC. GAMIL ARREOLA LEAL Quien lejos de corregir de inmediato este atropello, se ha dedicado a tratar de cubrir esta violación a los derechos constitucionales tanto míos como de mis empleados; al acudir al C. Gobernador del Estado, este solo atino a apoyar al Procurador, haciéndose participe de esta violación de derechos humanos y constitucionales conminado a mis representantes legales a que LE HAGAMOS COMO PODAMOS ya que ellos son la Ley.

A ESTA NO LE PODEMOS LLAMAR DE OTRA MANERA QUE, UN DESPOJO, ROBO Y SECUESTRO LLEVADO A CABO POR LA PROCURADURIA DE JUSTICIA DE BAJA CALIFORNIA SUR EN APOYO DIRECTO A CRIMINALES CONOCIDOS. COOPERACION ABIERTA Y CINICA CON EL CRIMEN ORGANIZADO.

SR. PRESIDENTE, SRA. PROCURADORA, desde hace 3 años vengo presentando denuncias FORMALES ante ustedes, atendiendo a la Petición de denunciar del Sr. Presidente en su lucha contra el crimen organizado, denuncia por que en la Zona Federal Marítimo Terrestre colindante con mi hotel, se desembarcan drogas y se viola la ley consuetudinariamente; en respuesta a estas denuncias, Se envió a Inteligencia Naval y a Inteligencia de la PGR que presenciaron los desembarcos con impotencia y SIN EMBARGO, LA RESPONSABLE, LEJOS DE ESTAR EN LA CÁRCEL, ES AHORA LA ACUSADORA Y MIS EMPLEADOS SON LOS QUE ESTÁN EN LA CÁRCEL GRACIAS AL NUEVO GOBIERNO ESTATAL PANISTA.

SR. PRESIDENTE, CONSTITUCIONALMENTE, USTED ES EL RESPONSABLE DE LA SEGURIDAD DENTRO DE LOS LÍMITES DE LA REPUBLICA y nos pide denunciar a los narcotraficantes, seguimos sus instrucciones y como resultado nosotros somos los encarcelados, amenazados, perseguidos y despojados por las mismas autoridades, ¿ES ASÍ COMO QUIERE QUE LA CIUDADANÍA LO APOYE CONTRA EL CRIMEN ORGANIZADO?.

LOS CRIMINALES, MARÍA OLIVIA HIGUERA AGUILAR ALIAS LA VAQUERA Y EL A VECES MEXICANO, A VECES NORTREAMERCIANO, MARK JEROME BURBEY alias EL NARK operan desde la Zona Federal Marítimo Terrestre, han sido condenados por vender especies protegidas en su restaurant el Sargazo y por fraude; tienen 10 averiguaciones previas por intento de despojo, robo, robo con violencia, intento de asesinato, daño a las cosas, falsedad ante autoridad confesa, averiguaciones previas números 14/ MGE/ 04, 28/ MGE/ 04, 24/MGE /05, 47/MGE/05, 45/MGE/06, 167/MGE/06, 99/MGE/08 radicadas en La ciudad de Mulege Y NUNCA HAN PISADO LA CÁRCEL POR LA PROTECCIÓN CÍNICA DE LA PROCURADURÍA DE JUSTICIA DE BAJA CALIFORNIA SUR Y COOPERACIÓN DE LAS AUTORIDADES FEDERALES.

SR. PRESIDENTE, en su discurso, usted promete, no poner a los lobos a cuidar las ovejas, pero le informo que, en Baja California Sur, al entrar el nuevo Gobierno estatal Panista, entraron los lobos disfrazados de pastores a cuidar las ovejas y los lobeznos ya comenzaron a comerse a las ovejas. La pregunta es, ¿QUE VA USTED A HACER CON LOS LOBOS Y LOS LOBEZNOS QUE YA ESTÁN A CARGO DE LAS OVEJAS?.

Con la Administración Estatal del PRD, hubo protección y cooperación con los criminales, pero, CON LA NUEVA ADMINISTRACIÓN PANISTA, LA PROCURADURÍA DE JUSTICIA DEL ESTADO, SE CONVIRTIÓ EN EL BRAZO ARMANDO DE LOS CRIMINALES, y con su activa cooperación y abuso de autoridad, los criminales están ahora logrando lo que no pudieron con simple encubrimiento.

SR. GOBERNADOR, gano usted propuesto por el PAN bajo la bandera de acabar con los despojos, y sin embargo, su Procurador con su apoyo, acaba de perpetrar uno totalmente injustificado y en activa cooperación con una criminal conocida, a la que hasta llama para que lo exculpe y no solo eso, SU PROCURADURÍA DE JUSTICIA ESTA ABIERTAMENTE Y CÍNICAMENTE ROBANDO, SECUESTRANDO, DESPOJANDO, ATACANDO A LA PRINCIPAL INDUSTRIA DEL ESTADO Y PROTEGIENDO Y COOPERANDO COMO ESBIRRO, CON CRIMINALES que deberían y en cualquier parte del mundo estarían tras las rejas, mientras que mantiene secuestrados a gente honesta. En lugar de hacer lo que prometió, esta usted convirtiéndose en el perpetrador directo del crimen a través de su aparato de supuesta justicia. ¿ES ESTO PARA LO QUE LOS BAJACALIFORNIANOS LO ELIGIERON¬? ¿ES ESTO EL CAMBIO QUE PROMETE SU PARTIDO EL PAN?
MANTIENE SECUESTRADOS A MIS DIRECTIVOS DEL HOTEL PARA PERMITIR DESPOJAR Y ROBAR A UN CRIMINAL, ¿Que disculpa encuentra usted para esto? ¿Es que en lugar de proteger a la industria turística, SE QUIERE USTED APODERAR DE ELLA a través del crimen organizado?

SRES. CANDIDATOS, el cambio que todos prometen, para el bien de México, debe ser hacia un estado de derecho, dejando atrás los horrores de la Pseudo Democracia; el cambio, si no es hacia el bien, no es el cambio que quiere México. COMO SIMPLE MEXICANO Y EMPRESARIO, les pregunto: Nos llevaran a una activa cooperación con los criminales como ahora lo hace activamente el Gobernador Panista de B.C.S. o a un encubrimiento pasivo pero efectivo como el anterior Gobernador del PRD o a los despilfarros de antaño.

SRA. CANDIDATA DEL PAN A LA PRESIDENCIA, JOSEFINA VÁZQUEZ MOTA, promete usted cadena perpetua a los funcionarios que se alíen con el crimen organizado, ¿EMPEZARA USTED POR BAJA CALIFORNIA SUR, CUYO GOBERNADOR ES DEL PAN, SU PARTIDO?

Sres. Funcionarios y aspirantes a serlo, lo que se requiere es acción y demostrar cual será el camino de México; es muy fácil dar discursos y permitir que el crimen actúe; se requiere acción, porque justicia tardía, no es justicia y en estos momentos, EL GOBIERNO DE BAJA CALIFORNIA SUR ESTA COMETIENDO UN ROBO, DESPOJO Y SECUESTRO DE LOS DIRECTIVOS DE UN HOTEL PROPIEDAD PRIVADA EN LA INDUSTRIA QUE MANTIENE AL ESTADO DE BAJA CALIFORNIA SUR.

Sres. Funcionarios, los lobos ya están a punto de comerse a las ovejas, ya no es tiempo de prometer que no se les pondrá a cargo de ellas, el lobo ya esta a cargo y sus esbirros ya comenzaron a apoderarse de la industria que mantiene al Estado; Van a actuar? O a continuar emitiendo discursos y prometiendo lo que saben que no se va a dar? Mientras, hay gente injustamente en la cárcel y se cometen despojos a la propiedad privada, impunes y con cooperación de el aparato de justicia.
¿ES ESTO EL ESTADO DE DERECHO QUE PROMETEN ????????
¿ES ESTO EL ESTADO DE DERECHO QUE DAN ????????

POR LO ANTERIOR, DEMANDO EN BASE A MIS DERECHOS HUMANOS Y CONSTITUCIONALES:
I.- La inmediata liberación de mis empleados del secuestro a que se les somete.
II.- La instauración de Juicio político y destitución del Gobernador de Baja California Sur.
III.- La inmediata destitución e investigación por parte de la Federación del Procurador de Justicia de Baja California Sur, Sub Procurador zona Norte y Agente del Ministerio Publico de Mulege B.C.S.
IV.- La consignación de la criminal que motivo toda esta violación por las averiguaciones previas que ilegalmente le Procuraduría de Justicia del Estado congela.
V.- Se nos preste seguridad para seguir operando nuestro hotel por parte del Ejercito, ya que la Justicia en Baja California está comprometida con el crimen Organizado.

Rafael Muñoz Martínez
Propietario del Hotel San Buenaventura

ramuma53 - 3-7-2012 at 06:08 PM

Gnukid
You are openly deceiving and lying to Nomads
First, Agrarian court recognized all my papers as legal and declared that no open case exist on my name or my land and I have a legal document where the Agrarian judge inform that to the Federal Judge and I can show it herem but I bet you can not show the document that say what you say.

Another inconsistency, is that no agrarian court can validate or declare false a title, that is a Federal judge jurisdiction, because in that case I would be fabricate a False federal document and is a federal ofense to do that, also using that document would be another federal ofense and this show that you are lying.

Just to confirm that, Olivia in 2002 claimed the same thing to the Federal Police and a Federal investigation was opened and after the SRA sent my title as legal, the Federal police closed the case as groundless after asking Olivia for legal proof of her acusations, but she was unable to provide the Federal Police with even one legal proof and the case closed offically.

You do not need to believe me, the Federal Police closed the case and informed the Public Registry that my title was found legal and it was blameless, the same as me for the false acusations Olivia did. You can find that on the Public Registry.

Here we can show, that Olivia and Nark are lying to Nomads, trying to induce error by clearly deceiving and lying about legal matters already closed in this thread.

They are using several new names to try to confuse Nomads and that show the kind of people they are.

Tomorrow the above open letter will be published in the National Newspaper Milenium and at the same time at SouthCaliforniano.

The 30 days kidnapping by the Estate Justice department is ending and they will have to charge my people showing legal proof or let them go.

Today my attorney talked to the Estate District Attorney and he told us that we can do anything we want, that they are the law in the state.

We will see that in a few days, because they asked the Santa Rosalia judge for an extension on the Arraigo to hold a longer time my people and he denied it, because to obtain the first order, the State justice department lied to him about finding permit less weapons and now we showed the permits to him.

Now we think that after using every legal trick and several illegal, they are going to try to hold at least one of my employees in jail, but the Federal Judge is about to grant an amparo.

Yesterday, my Mulege Attorney provided legal declaration before the Federal Police, bureau specialized in public official’s crimes, here in Mexico city; he narrated the whole ordeal in every detail, giving ground to a Federal Investigation.

My employees are about to go out legally, at least one of them and as soon as I have them secured and safe, I will send an army of legally armed private guards to secure my property and enforce every legal right I have, including not letting any, but any people in to my property, including the Estate District attorney or his help and if they try again to use force to enter, they will be answered as the crooks they are, even if they are using a legal disguise.:mad:

ramuma53 - 3-7-2012 at 06:17 PM

Lencho
El Capital Alcantar de Inteligencia Naval, el Comandante de la PGR Heriberto Regalado Barragan y una dama de Inteligencia de la PGR presenciaron y grabaron, no solo fotos sino video y comunicaciones, pero eso es parte de una investigacion Federal y yo no tengo acceso, pero estuve con ellos viendolo.
La razon por la que no se intervino y estuve de acuerdo con ellos es porque ese dia, habian quemado el telefono del hotel y ponchado las llantas de los vehiculos y estaban ellos dos solos armados solo con una pistola cou un cargador cada uno mientras que con Olivia y Nark havia mas de 10 gentes armadas con AK47 Kalasnikovs 762x39, pero todo quedo gravado con Star ligts.
Ambos se dirigieron a Mulege y regresaron dos horas despues con todo el destacamento de marina, pero ya no encontraron a nadie a pesar de que se inicio un operativo en toda la Bahia Concepcion.
Todo esto consta en las investigaciones que se acaban de aportar a la PGR Direccion de Delitos cometidos por los Funcionarios Publicos, pero es muy posible que se envie a la SIEDO por ser claramente operacion del crimen organizado.
Estos mismos agentes fueron los que despues capturaron a Olivia con la sopa de Caguama en las manos

ramuma53 - 3-7-2012 at 06:34 PM

Gnukid or Olivia or Nark
As always, trying to confuse people.

Yates y Turismo is a Mexican Company that claimed my property in 1963, they just claimed it but never bought it and in 1968 their claim was denied and sent to the dead file.

in 1972, I claimed the land that was legally then National Land and the legal process started, in 1987, the Ejido La Purisima was legally notified about my legal procedure, because every ejido inside a 7 km radius has to be notified and they answered that they had no quarrel with my claim and that my land was outside their boundaries, signing and sealing a legal document to the SRA commissioner, you know about that document, because I provided it when you tried unsuccessfully at the Agrarian court to claim my hotel and that was the cause that the Ejido La Purisima dropped his claims against me in Agrarian court.

You are talking about the people who live on the Requeson Beach, bordering my property, they are the Gorosave family, who tried also to claim my property, using a 1863 title issued by Benito Juarez, but I showed that their title has Astronomical data for localization and that the title show that they do not border with the sea and is 20 miles inland and the case was closed after technical verification.

Gnukid Olivia, you can try to deceive a few people most of the time, but you cannot deceive all of them all the time. Nomads are not brainless, they clearly see through your different names and lies.

ramuma53 - 3-7-2012 at 06:41 PM

About me disappearing????
No way, I am just starting with this, but I spent the past couple of days giving legal deposition to the Federal Police headquarters together with my Mulege attorney who witnessed the whole ordeal in person, making the beginning of a Federal Investigation.

Watch Milenium newspaper tomorrow to se How I am accusing the South Baja Governor, Estate District Attorney, the District Attorney and Olivia and Nark in national news and at the SouthBajacaliforniano in a whole page each.

No my friend, I have no cause to be afraid or anything, only sad to see the Mexican Estate authorities act as crooks in front of the international community, but we know we have crooks in Mexico, but not all Mexican authorities are crooks and they will prevail.

wessongroup - 3-7-2012 at 06:42 PM

Speaking of 7 km ... from a footnote...

1)

A National Agrarian Commission circular from 1916 gave local agrarian commissions instructions on how to measure endowment perimeters: They were to follow state-level rulings issued before the Constitution of 1857, or, if there happened to be none (which was typically the case), they were to resort to colonial laws stipulating that endowed lands had to lie within a distance of 2,095 meters from the centers of the town in each direction. This stipulation was taken from several colonial laws, particularly the Cédula Real of July 12, 1695, in which Fernando IV ruled that the urban center of all towns in the New World had to be measured "from the atrium of the church in the direction of the four winds" (Rincón, 1980: 26-7). From then until 1992, land reform beneficiaries could conceivably receive a fraction of the land located within seven kilometers of the town center. The last major law decreed prior to the 1992 reforms, the Federal Agrarian Reform Law of 1971, stipulated that "all rural properties within a seven-kilometer radius from the most densely populated part of a community could potentially be expropriated" (Article 203 of the Ley Federal de Reforma Agraria).

ramuma53 - 3-7-2012 at 06:47 PM

Lencho
Inmediatamente despues que esos oficiales mandaron sus informes y pruebas, fueron despedidos por el estado Mayor naval y de la PGR para impedir los decomisos que hubo de drogas por toda Baja hechos por ellos y los marinos, eso fue causa de noticias y sus superiores se dieron cuenta que los atacaban para proteger al Cartel de Tijuana y solo los transladaron, a Alcantar a la base naval de Mazatlan donde aun esta y a Barragan Regalado lo ascendieron y trabaja en Mexico Df. en Inteligencia de la PGR.

Es una guerra abierta contra el crimen organizado, que esta dentro de todas las corporaciones, incluyendo el Gobierno del Estado de Baja California Sur.

ramuma53 - 3-7-2012 at 06:49 PM

Wessogroup
You are learning too fast and Hope many of you do the same.
After all, what else you have to do but learn.

wessongroup - 3-7-2012 at 06:59 PM

ditto's

Woooosh - 3-7-2012 at 07:23 PM

Good to see you posting again on the topic Raphael. Do you have any comments regarding the Zeta article?

ramuma53 - 3-8-2012 at 09:31 AM

Lencho
La venidera y todas se venderan si las dejamos.
Pero, la corrupcion existe por que no es denunciada y perseguida; siempre al principio parece que los corruptos tienen todo el poder, pero cuando se va conociendo y haciendo publica su corrupcion, se vuelven incomodos para corruptos mas arraiba; solo los protegen un poco y por eso hay tanto gobernador y ex gobernador en problemas legales y siendo procesados en estos momentos.
La costumbre era que el Gobernador era el Rey del estado y nadie se metia con el, pero eso ha cambiado un poco, pero ellos no se han enterado.

Cuando ganan, se sienten duenos del estado y saben que terminaran multimillonarios y que el dinero compra voluntades y asociacion de corruptos.
Eso solo puede existir cuando se desconoce y es solo un problema local donde se puede comprar y amedrentar a los periodistas locales, pero es imposible cuando se adquere notoriedad Nacional.

El Problema de Woooosh es similar, hay corrupcion y complicidad de las autoridades locales; es una aberracion, pues hay un edificio, no solo en Zona Federal sino en la zona maritima, las olas golpean dedio edificio y si existieran los permisos no seria nomalo, pero lo hacen pasar por propiedad privada y todas las autoridades lo ocultan y minimizan los esfuerzos de Wooosh, llegando al extremo de perderle su expediente y desecharle sus demandas por avandono procesal, solo por que su abogada, pregunta verbalmente por el asunto en lugar de meter promociones cada vez.

Corrupcion de funcionarios es el problema de Mexico y nuestra obligacion es acabar con eso y pasar a otra etapa mas civilizada.

ramuma53 - 3-8-2012 at 09:58 AM

Wessongroup
Grounded on the legal principle you mention, when any Private Property claim is made, the law order that every Ejido in a 7 Km. radius must be legally notified about the procedure to turn that National Land in to private property, just in case they may need more land; if the Ejido opposes the procedure, it is terminated and the Ejido asked if they want an addition to their ejido, adding that land.
Only when the Ejidos inside totally or partially the 7 Km. radius, all say that they do not want that land, they are not contemplating that land as future addition to their ejido, the National Land procedure can continue and a National Land title issued; they have to be legally notified and they have to participate in the technical topographical works, signing and sealing the approval paper for that land to be turned in to Private Property.
That was exactly the case for my title, All the Ejidos inside the 7 Km. radius, in this case only the Ejido La Purisima, participated in the delimitation for my land and at the end signed and sealed the legal official paper in front of the SRA public official. That mean, that at that time, the Ejido La Purisima recognized that my land was National Land that served no purpose for the Ejido and they did not wanted it, consenting it to turn in to Private Property.

ramuma53 - 3-8-2012 at 10:06 AM

Now, Olivia, using a lease contract with the Ejido La Purisima is trying to argue that my Hotel is inside the Ejido; when the Ejido itself denied it in court and dropped the claim when they saw the documents signed and sealed by Ejido La Purisima officials. It is simply an aberration, but she through corruption think she will get away with it.
As many Nomads know, my hotel is in the middle of Bahia Concepcion, where there are no public services, in fact it the only place in Baja without public services and a lonely place most of the year. A very bad place to have a restaurant and hotel, because very few people stop or live near.

Then why do I have a hotel there? Because the place is one of the most beautiful places on earth and have a turism future and because it is my private property and I have to watch it to keep it and a Hotel is the best way to guard my property and avoid the high costs of just having people siting around watching it.

Why Olivia having a cheap timber restaurant in the Federal Zone, that is not her property and was built with Mr. Stan Valentine and Thad Braxton’s money, want that particular place, when there are 30 Km. of lonely coast and better beaches to place her restaurant???? Why risk her life as she say????

Because Buenaventura is one of two places, where you can land big heavy boats, because deep waters are near the beach and you can take that boat out of the water with their load on board fast; also, it is located where you can take the load and cross the Baja Peninsula through dirt roads without passing any Army post. It is a drug runner heaven but a very bad place for a Restaurant.

Why do you think she is there??? Why do you think she can have friends in high political and police posts??? Whow can she spend so much money, selling just hamburgers to paser by Nomads????

You can see that very few Nomads know the place personally or have stayed there for more than a couple of times in 3 years; would any of you Nomads and businessman can sustain there a business for 10 years???? 4 to 5 employees, 75 Kw., diesel generator running 24 hours, legal costs, newspaper costs, water that has to be brought by truck from 30 km. distance????.

Just make the numbers and see how many hamburgers would you need to sell to keep going and don’t forget she is an alcoholic and a junky and that cost a lot in a daily bases.:?::?:

Also remeber that she used to have a Cessna plane, several boats and several cars.

Can any of you do that just selling hamburgers on a lonely beach in the most desolate place in Baja??????

tripledigitken - 3-8-2012 at 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53


.........Why risk her life as she say????....



and you sir, and your "hotel employees", seem to be the #1 risk to her life

ramuma53 - 3-8-2012 at 10:29 AM

Now consider Mark Jerome Burbey alias Nark
He arrived to Buenaventura around 2003, as a penniless tourist, just being divorced in California, where his father had a printing business; his young dotter came with him and came very often to my hotel to play cards with my manager and employees, telling her life story and how her father was broke and wasn’t paying the child support to her mother.
Nark is about 15 years younger than Olivia and he looks 30 years younger than her.
Olivia at that time had been fired by Roberto Meloni and was just existing on her restaurant and her real husband Michael George just left her for a 16 year old bar working girl.
Why would an American renounce his American nationality to supposedly marry an old lady on a very far away beach?????

latina - 3-8-2012 at 10:38 AM

Keep typing ramuna53...everything you publish here and in the newspapers is testimony to your flawed character, your bad manners and your agenda. Bravo!

Trueheart - 3-8-2012 at 10:39 AM

"Because Buenaventura is one of two places, where you can land big heavy boats, because deep waters are near the beach and you can take that boat out of the water with their load on board fast; also, it is located where you can take the load and cross the Baja Peninsula through dirt roads without passing any Army post. It is a drug runner heaven but a very bad place for a Restaurant."

Nomads, is what Ramuma saying here correct? Is this location a desirable service point for drugs coming in by boat?

IF this location is being used for this type of activity, why are there no photos to support this contention? Certainly since this is such a significant contention by you Ramuma, and since you seem to be willing to go to great lengths and effort to prove your points, then why no photos?

Why aren't there others who can claim to have witnessed the same activity you say you have witnessed, to support your contention?

mtgoat666 - 3-8-2012 at 11:13 AM

rafael:
you should stick to the facts and avoid gossip and lies. your tall tales make you sound like a nut job and a liar.

your stories about olivia drug running sound like lies. if you lie once, i then suspect you of lieing always.

greengoes - 3-8-2012 at 11:26 AM

Mas determinacion que nunca.

Sol has his dinero on 53 but said the timeframe is impossible to calculate.

He said the title referencing Vera Cruz land was a real curveball.

:lol:

[Edited on 3-8-2012 by greengoes]

mtgoat666 - 3-8-2012 at 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Why would an American renounce his American nationality to supposedly marry an old lady on a very far away beach?????


love!

Woooosh - 3-8-2012 at 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
Lencho
La venidera y todas se venderan si las dejamos.
Pero, la corrupcion existe por que no es denunciada y perseguida; siempre al principio parece que los corruptos tienen todo el poder, pero cuando se va conociendo y haciendo publica su corrupcion, se vuelven incomodos para corruptos mas arraiba; solo los protegen un poco y por eso hay tanto gobernador y ex gobernador en problemas legales y siendo procesados en estos momentos.
La costumbre era que el Gobernador era el Rey del estado y nadie se metia con el, pero eso ha cambiado un poco, pero ellos no se han enterado.

Cuando ganan, se sienten duenos del estado y saben que terminaran multimillonarios y que el dinero compra voluntades y asociacion de corruptos.
Eso solo puede existir cuando se desconoce y es solo un problema local donde se puede comprar y amedrentar a los periodistas locales, pero es imposible cuando se adquere notoriedad Nacional.

El Problema de Woooosh es similar, hay corrupcion y complicidad de las autoridades locales; es una aberracion, pues hay un edificio, no solo en Zona Federal sino en la zona maritima, las olas golpean dedio edificio y si existieran los permisos no seria nomalo, pero lo hacen pasar por propiedad privada y todas las autoridades lo ocultan y minimizan los esfuerzos de Wooosh, llegando al extremo de perderle su expediente y desecharle sus demandas por avandono procesal, solo por que su abogada, pregunta verbalmente por el asunto en lugar de meter promociones cada vez.

Corrupcion de funcionarios es el problema de Mexico y nuestra obligacion es acabar con eso y pasar a otra etapa mas civilizada.


That's an important legal point and strategy. When our concession was potentially threatened by the squatter's false claims of "intentional fraud"on our part, we provided all the correct documents to refute those claims. In Mexico there is a cultural tendency to want to help your friends in any way possible without judging if what your friend did was right or wrong. Nothing wrong with that, but it slows the legal process because no one wants to say no- or that they can't help, even if their friend is unlikely to prevail. After six months of letters and e-mails (yes, even the Director Generals of ZOFEMAT and PROFEPA will e-mail you back these days if you ask respectfully) we did what we should have done right away- ask for the public hearing on the matter the law says we are entitled to before a concession can be taken away. We told the Director Generals we would travel anywhere at any time to attend this hearing to defend our concession. Not many people know that this is their legal right and it makes it very hard for them to ignore you once you ask for it.

In November 2011 we received a 15 page decision from the PROFEPA delgate for Baja (Bernabe Peraz Esquer) that stated not only had we done nothing wrong, but that there was no longer any private land (ganados al mar) available for the squatter to use a "prescripcion positiva" against. The land in question was either Marine Zone (underwater) or Federal Zone. We then went ahead and requested that a formal, published federal zone measurement be made to determine which one it was. We are still waiting for that result.

Until our request, the last official measurement was done in 1976. Few coastlines in the world are the same as they were 35 years ago, and Rosarito had severely accelerated beach erosion when a long jetty was installed at the CFE power plant on the north end of the beach. The game playing of using the old 1976 maps to claim and build on the Federal or Marine Zones continued though. That is how the Playa Bonita condo towers got built (they have sat empty since completion in 2008 because no individual condo titles are possible). In our case the squatter used the old map to claim and occupy a previously abandoned house and the land next to it as her private property. Then she held everyone at bay and refused to show any proof of ownership. Once our concession was awarded in 2008 and the newer federal zone lines established in 2009- there was nothing there for her to take when she obtained the squatter title (Prescripcion Positiva)- since Federal Zone cannot be taken in that manner and all the area she requested was already in a valid concession for protection, ours.

I'm sure this happens and is still happening in more coastal areas besides Rosarito.

[Edited on 3-8-2012 by Woooosh]

JoeJustJoe - 3-8-2012 at 01:53 PM

Woooosh there are two sides to every dispute, and I understand the other party is your dispute has a very good case against you.

I also understand that private property across the street from you wasn't designated as "federal Zone"when the other party brought the property and took control of the property. This was something done recently, and it looks like it was done with behind the scene wheeling and dealing and perhaps out right fraud on that "concession" application your party filled out.

Woooosh you have to get the property on the other side of the street from your house in order to make the handicapped beach goers happy, and provide an exercise area or and lets not forget make it an area where people and dogs can walk on the beach. ( the nice ocean view would be nice too, but that's not your main concern. It's the Mexican handicapped you care about.);D

But you don't have the house yet, and the other person isn't in jail. So I take it they're fighting you tooth and nail over your "concession" and possible fraud on that application. What I don't understand is how you could get the type of "concession" when there isn't a empty lot, and clearly your pictures show a house of the neighbor your fighting. I'm at a lost Woooosh how you could get a protecting and gardening Concession. What are you going to do garden on top on the house?

I'm starting to find out a little about you Woooosh, and if you ask me. It looks like you Woooosh is taking a page from the Ramuma 53 playbook complete with a public relations attack on your neighbor you call a squatter. ( I saw those YouTube videos)I'm also hearing tales of violence! Tell me this isn't true Woooosh?
_________
Question to Ramuma? How much are you helping Woooosh in his effort here? ( I don't have to ask how much Fulano is helping Woooosh too. No wonder Woooosh is loyal to both guys)
___________________

JoeJustJoe is naturally curious and nosy, however JoeJustJoe is suppose to be retired and really doesn't like to get involved in other peoples business.

But this story might be too good to pass up, and it looks to have the same potential as the M&O vs Ramuma story.

I think I missed my calling as an investigative reporter.( so what if I'm a bad speller at times)

If I do spend time researching this story. I might have to write it in the "OT" area, or gets the cobwebs off my blog, and write it there. But what I know so far is very EXPLOSIVE and I'm really concerned for both parties, and hope they could work out things peacefully.

Woooosh - 3-8-2012 at 02:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Woooosh there are two sides to every dispute, and I understand the other party is your dispute has a very good case against you.

I also understand that private property across the street from you wasn't designated as "federal Zone"when the other party brought the property and took control of the property. This was something done recently, and it looks like it was done with behind the scene wheeling and dealing and perhaps out right fraud on that "concession" application your party filled out.

Woooosh you have to get the property on the other side of the street from your house in order to make the handicapped beach goers happy, and provide an exercise area or and lets not forget make it an area where people and dogs can walk on the beach. ( the nice ocean view would be nice too, but that's not your main concern. It's the Mexican handicapped you care about.);D

But you don't have the house yet, and the other person isn't in jail. So I take it they're fighting you tooth and nail over your "concession" and possible fraud on that application. What I don't understand is how you could get the type of "concession" when there isn't a empty lot, and clearly your pictures show a house of the neighbor your fighting. I'm at a lost Woooosh how you could get a protecting and gardening Concession. What are you going to do garden on top on the house?

I'm starting to find out a little about you Woooosh, and if you ask me. It looks like you Woooosh is taking a page from the Ramuma 53 playbook complete with a public relations attack on your neighbor you call a squatter. ( I saw those YouTube videos)I'm also hearing tales of violence! Tell me this isn't true Woooosh?
_________
Question to Ramuma? How much are you helping Woooosh in his effort here? ( I don't have to ask how much Fulano is helping Woooosh too. No wonder Woooosh is loyal to both guys)
___________________

JoeJustJoe is naturally curious and nosy, however JoeJustJoe is suppose to be retired and really doesn't like to get involved in other peoples business.

But this story might be too good to pass up, and it looks to have the same potential as the M&O vs Ramuma story.

I think I missed my calling as an investigative reporter.( so what if I'm a bad speller at times)

If I do spend time researching this story. I might have to write it in the "OT" area, or gets the cobwebs off my blog, and write it there. But what I know so far is very EXPLOSIVE and I'm really concerned for both parties, and hope they could work out things peacefully.


Good to see you being more civil Joe. I will respond- but this exact topic is already being discussed on the "Baja real estate advice thread" so it will be redundant. I will paste your post and respond to your question over there so as not to clog this thread. Thanks for the pleasant tone. I'm sure others appreciate it as well.

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=50209&pag...

[Edited on 3-9-2012 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 3-8-2012 at 02:28 PM

"Corruption of officials is the problem of Mexico and our obligation is to end it and move on to another stage more civilized."

A very positive way at approaching problem solution ... in Mexico, or here in the United States... as we® certainly don't have clean "skirts" HERE !!!

Mexico is not the only country which has crooks who "game" the system ... as we here in the United States just witnessed the HUGE lie of the sub-prime deal, robot signatures, fake appraisals, fraudulent titles ... et al... from our leaders in Congress and all those swell folks in the Real Estate Industry, Banking Industry, Insurance Industry, and let us not forget who allowed this to happen ... the Federal Government ... as it was their watch !!!

Really glad to see those heavy jail sentences coming down on so MANY folks :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

And some poor smuck gets life on a third strike call for stealing a pizza ... right pal.. we got it under control HERE ...

The change in Land Law that was instituted in 1992 by the Mexican Federal Government was Mexico's attempt, once again, to provide fairness to a land distribution system which was not by any means fair and just ..

Getting Federal control over all entities would seem the first step in developing a fair and just land ownership "system" based on singular land law for all ... with a singular system for legal redress



[Edited on 3-8-2012 by wessongroup]

Cypress - 3-8-2012 at 02:57 PM

But and it's a big but, some folks will kill for a good pizza. :biggrin: If it's to "die for" it's got to be good to "kill for". :biggrin:

ramuma53 - 3-9-2012 at 10:48 AM

Lencho
I see that under your comments, you have a citation, "Los pueblos tienen el gobierno que se merecen" People has the government they deserve.

At this time, I believe you are right and that is why Mexico is the way it is now; but we cannot accept to live like that, where only a few are willing to go in to the political arena, people who also have the political connections and are willing to compromise to be able to acquire the money needed to be nominated by one of the political parties.

At this time Mexico is not considered a Democracy, it is called a Political party dictatorship and that mean that the Political parties control who will be nominated for Democratic post in the Mexican Government and that include Estate and National Congress, the people who make the laws and the rules.

If you notice, that is why, the supposedly public representatives are not public representatives al all, they are the political party representatives because they have no hope to repeat in the job ”No reeleccion” and they are not there because the people want them there, they are there because they met the political parties requisites And they are already looking for the next job, a job that only the political party can provide; in consequence, they only obey the political party orders; people has absolutely no influence on this process, they only can vote for the political parties proposal, absolutely no outsiders, just look today to Makio intent to participate as Presidential candidate as an independent candidate, he has been rejected from the start by the courts.

The main tools for this party dictatorship or a dictatorship by the political parties directors (Sound very communist) are NO REELECTION and NO EXTERNAL CANDIDATES; that way the supposedly public representatives are really the Political party representatives and only obey the Political party directors who are the dictators.

Then a public representative, has only a very few people to obey, the people who put the money for them to convince the political parties director to nominate him and the political party director themselves; people has no influence on the politician future.
If you want to act as a public representative and really protect the people against the people in charge, they do not need to kill you, they just do not approve anything you propose and they will never nominate you again and you are out for sure, no possibility for you to influence Mexico’s future.

I am not a theorist on this matter, I tried myself, I was nominated as an outside candidate by the PARM (Partido Autentico de la Revolucion Mexicana) as a Senate candidate for Baja California and my whole budget received from the political party was about USD$1000.00 (one thousand) dollars, not enough even for the gas to go to every place in the Estate; even with that problem, financing my campaign myself and with friends money, I obtained the highest vote count in Mexico for that party. O course I lost having only 20 banners for the whole Estate.

The 2000 Elections were times when Mexico supposedly was going to change, the first President for other party than PRI had a chance to win, Porfirio Munoz Ledo was named director for Mexico’s restructuration, a high hope for real change the first time in 70 years.

Then President Fox the first President in 70 years from another party but PRI, won and he just turned another representative from another group with interests to substitute the PRI dictatorship, of course with another 70 year dictatorship while Porfirio Munoz Ledo was commissioned as all power ambassador for Europe, in other words he was sent out of Mexico so he did not insist on changing Mexico’s political system and allowing the Party dictatorship to continue.

As you see, Mexico want to change, but the people that won saying they would change the System, just turned coats and proffered to turn themselves in to millionaires.

At this time, after that experience of failed change, Mexicans are confused and do not trust any of the political parties, they protest by not voting, Absetencionismo or people who does not vote is 85% and in other words, rulers rule with only a fraction of that 15% representation.

The motivation to turn in to that system member is extremely high, practically it is the only way to become multi millionaire in dollars is the Political industry while the obstacles to change the system are almost unsurpassable, but only almost.

Then the only option is to attack the cracks in that barrier and keep digging in it until the whole barrier crumble; people want it to crumble but are powerless to do it.

Burbs - 3-9-2012 at 12:38 PM

The Buenaventura beach is open for camping and I'm hopeful traveler's, Nomads and families can enjoy themselves again. I have cleaned around the homes and dismantled the burned out structure at the entrance that use to house employee's. It caught fire twice under Munoz's rein of terror. Oli and I will now start to build some new palapa's on the beach for shade along with some other beach structures. We know it will be awhile to regain the public confidence. I will like to say we do not promote any violence and all are welcome with the exception of one

Cypress - 3-9-2012 at 12:44 PM

Burbs, Wish you and Oli all the luck in the world. If I was ever gonna head down that way again I'd take advantage of your hospitality.:D

David K - 3-9-2012 at 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Burbs
The Buenaventura beach is open for camping and I'm hopeful traveler's, Nomads and families can enjoy themselves again. I have cleaned around the homes and dismantled the burned out structure at the entrance that use to house employee's. It caught fire twice under Munoz's rein of terror. Oli and I will now start to build some new palapa's on the beach for shade along with some other beach structures. We know it will be awhile to regain the public confidence. I will like to say we do not promote any violence and all are welcome with the exception of one


Wonderful news Mark!!! :light::yes: Hope to see you there again, this July!

mtgoat666 - 3-9-2012 at 01:26 PM

rafael:
is the wild bunch still in lockup? i thought you said they would be released, still waiting for update!

Cypress - 3-9-2012 at 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mtgoat666
rafael:
is the wild bunch still in lockup? i thought you said they would be released, still waiting for update! [/quote
:?:

ramuma53 - 3-9-2012 at 05:58 PM

Burbs alias Nark or Mark Jerome Burbey
Don’t count on being there too long, because the long arm of the law is about to reach to you.

You made a big mistake also, you claimed help from the American consulate, but you signed a paper where you resign the right to do so, when you claimed to be Mexican and that is a law violation that deserve you to be deported and it is a matter of time and this time a short one, because you have a federal investigation on the going.


For yours and every Nomad information
Today the Federal date was finally granted and finally we were able to see how they made this big constitutional violation:

Olivia and Nark, claimed that they DURING THE NIGHT, saw several of my people, using binoculars, entering some of my hotel rooms and since she owns the hotel, SHE SUPPOSED that they were robbing her property; on those grounds, she called the Sun District attorney general, who went to see her, also during the night and it was raining; when this guy that we now know was LIC. HUGO GALINDO CAMACHO; since it was night, Alan, my security chief, stopped him on his car and asked him where he was going and he only told him he was going to visit Olivia and Nark (Burbs) but he saw my security chief in a funny way and he just told him he was not a homosexual, to take a hike and he did, he went and stayed with Olivia and Nark 2 hours and when he came back holding a dark suitcase, he just told in his funny way like a lady offended, that he was not in downtown Mexico while my security chief just laugh at him telling him homosexual.

This has several consequences and we can say that:
I.- LIC. HUGO GALINDO CAMACHO did not identified himself as in an official business, something impossible to conduct during the night.

II.- He really is a homosexual and he reacted as an offended lady, he did not think of any legal consequences, he just made his action plan to take revenge from somebody who made fun of his homosexuality. (We do not have anything against homosexuals, it is their business and I do not think my security chief acted correctly making fun of one).

III.- .- LIC. HUGO GALINDO CAMACHO the north Zone sub District attorney as a public official had no business visiting during the night a convicted felon and a place where drugs are usually delivered.

After that they just went to Santa Rosalia and collected every police in the Estate’s north zone, Estate and city policeman; he waited for the local district attorney LIC. ALOY AGUIAR YEE who was at that time in Baja North and had to drive all night and when he arrived, HUGO GALINDO CAMACHO was waiting for him and without even telling him where they were going they went to Buenaventura and arrested everybody, without a court order or even a cause, arresting even my attorney without telling them why and they didn’t tell them because they did not know why to arrest them, it was only a homosexual vengeance.

Then they invented the story about Olivia seen somebody in my Hotel and just told them it was her hotel, and I agree that Olivia is capable of doing that, but the authority has no way of concealing the fact that they had no court order or even legal cause to go there and arrest and take possession of my Hotel.

We asked for the Federal protection and the Federal judge in an open and irresponsible act, did not gave legal notification to the District attorney, he made a mistake with one letter and the District attorney just denied that that authority existed; in other words, they by playing with technicalities, maintained my people in jail for 30 days without a court order or legal case.

According to legal procedure, the District attorney at the end of the 30 days, he have to send my people to the local judge with all the legal proof and now we know that they only have Olivia’s word as proof and remember that she has been convicted for lying to authority.

As soon as the local judge, receive my people on Tuesday, he will release them without charges, because no legal proof was offered.

Ok, but that is the legal case against my people but, I will not stop until the perpetrators are in jail and until both Olivia and Nark are in jail for all their crimes.
Also, they will not be able to set a foot in my land, again and if they do it, they will certainly lose it.

I know that her friends will try again, but next time they will have to show a court order or they will be dealt as the crooks they are, official or not.

Just to close this, I have the official report where the Federal police, who arrived after the Estate police was arresting my people, say that they saw no court order and saw no legal cause, but they did nothing because they were fellow policeman and if you notice that is a crime committed by doing nothing; they saw a crime and did nothing; they saw a kidnapping, an armed assault, a robbery and an illegal private property occupation and did nothing and those are several federal crimes committed by those policeman document that is also an irrefutable proof that a grave crime was committed by the Estate authorities.

So Burb or Nark or Mark Jerome Burbey, American national turned Mexican who ask for help to the American consulate, now it is my turn to use the law and I will not stop until it is served with justice.

Burbs - 3-9-2012 at 06:34 PM

Key symptoms
Delusions and hallucinations are the symptoms that make paranoid schizophrenia most distinct from other types of schizophrenia.

Delusions. In paranoid schizophrenia, a common delusion is that you're being singled out for harm. For instance, you may believe that the government is monitoring every move you make or that a co-worker is poisoning your lunch. You may also have delusions of grandeur — the belief that you can fly, that you're famous or that you have a relationship with a famous person, for example. You hold on to these false beliefs despite evidence to the contrary. Delusions can result in aggression or violence if you believe you must act in self-defense against those who want to harm you.
Auditory hallucinations. An auditory hallucination is the perception of sound — usually voices — that no one else hears. The sounds may be a single voice or many voices. These voices may talk either to you or to each other. The voices are usually unpleasant. They may make ongoing criticisms of what you're thinking or doing, or make cruel comments about your real or imagined faults. Voices may also command you to do things that can be harmful to yourself or to others. When you have paranoid schizophrenia, these voices seem real. You may talk to or shout at the voices.

wessongroup - 3-9-2012 at 06:53 PM

Oh my, internet profiling ... JOe you must in here some place ... :):)

surfer jim - 3-10-2012 at 07:54 AM

...and these are The Days of Our Lives :rolleyes:.....plot just took a new twist....and I like it.:biggrin:

tripledigitken - 3-10-2012 at 09:19 AM

unfrikinbelievable...........................


lets hear from Rafael supporters now

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

surfer jim - 3-12-2012 at 04:23 PM

Two days and no news?

Maybe everyone is resetting their clocks forward and to busy.

BajaGringo - 3-13-2012 at 08:26 AM

I haven't read the entire thread but enough to decide that nobody outside of the two parties involved know what the REAL truth is. Not even those who signed leases and built homes there are clear as to who owns what. For any of the rest of us to pretend to know better is ridiculous.

I prefer to just watch and learn but I will admit that I give more credibility to those who actually post supporting documents in lieu of just verbal attacks.

Now back to my seat on the sidelines...

latina - 3-13-2012 at 09:19 AM

The TOPIC of this thread is page 1 and two of Muñoz's employees were transported yesterday from La Paz to Santa Rosalia, to stand before the judge there and face the charges against them (this morning in the newspaper Sudcaliforniano).

Burbs - 3-13-2012 at 11:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
I haven't read the entire thread but enough to decide that nobody outside of the two parties involved know what the REAL truth is. Not even those who signed leases and built homes there are clear as to who owns what. For any of the rest of us to pretend to know better is ridiculous.

I prefer to just watch and learn but I will admit that I give more credibility to those who actually post supporting documents in lieu of just verbal attacks.

Now back to my seat on the sidelines...


The BajaNomad is NOT the place for us to post our supporting LEGAL documents. A Mexican court is the place for showing supporting documents. Munoz can show his documents here on the Nomad, for he needs some support from Woosh or the Investgator. If someone here really needs to see our documents they can come here to the restaurant and I will show. Otherwise it is in court, period. If Munoz has legitimate proof, then show it in court and we can all be done with this mess.
:?:Does anyone really think Rafael Munoz Martinez would have done the things he has done at Buenaventura if he had the correct paperwork or legal documents?

Woooosh - 3-13-2012 at 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
Quote:
Originally posted by Burbs

The BajaNomad is NOT the place for us to post our supporting LEGAL documents. A Mexican court is the place for showing supporting documents.


I couldn't agree more.
Some folks just need to meet in person and square their own personal chiite away betwixt themselves.

I couldn't agree less. I don't think anyone was expecting one side or the other to make their case definitively, but we are all learning more about Mexican real estate laws and processes through this incident. For me- any docs people are willing to post are taken as educational, not necessarily to be taken as evidence. jmo.
:?::?:

[Edited on 3-13-2012 by Woooosh]

BajaGringo - 3-13-2012 at 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by soulpatch
Quote:
Originally posted by Burbs

The BajaNomad is NOT the place for us to post our supporting LEGAL documents. A Mexican court is the place for showing supporting documents.


I couldn't agree more.
Some folks just need to meet in person and square their own personal chiite away betwixt themselves.


I agree that would be the ideal course of action but it wasn't me who asked them to start airing their dirty laundry here in the first place. Too late to close that corral gate now IMHO...

wessongroup - 3-13-2012 at 01:03 PM

Would offer "if" one wishes ... do third party independent verification ... using the "Documents" cases reference file number to the agency where doubt exists ...

That usually puts it to bed ... either there is "said" document on file, or there is not

Kinda like the way Lobsterman approaches "full disclosure" or something pretty close ... he doesn't hide too much ... IMHO

toneart - 3-13-2012 at 02:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Burbs
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaGringo
I haven't read the entire thread but enough to decide that nobody outside of the two parties involved know what the REAL truth is. Not even those who signed leases and built homes there are clear as to who owns what. For any of the rest of us to pretend to know better is ridiculous.

Now back to my seat on the sidelines...


The BajaNomad is NOT the place for us to post our supporting LEGAL documents. A Mexican court is the place for showing supporting documents.


I agree with both of these statements.

We Nomads can't know because we were not involved. I do know Olivia and Marc though. I was just in their restaurant two weeks ago when everyone else was too afraid to go near there. I wanted to show support and Olivia made a great Margarita for me.

They don't have to show legal documents here for our entertainment...and that is what it is on this forum.

I have never met Munoz. For Woooosh, he has been a wealth of legal information so I can understand his bias. But I have witnessed lawyers in the U.S. who make it a business to steal property and know full well how to do it...with supporting legal documents.

For all of his vehemence, verbiage and velocity, he is smothering with his barrage of documents. Can any of you truly follow all of that and make sense of it? He addles the mind. You supporters are claiming to be impressed by the volume of documentation he presents. But how could you understand the content? Most of you are not lawyers, and you are certainly not Mexican lawyers. You are amateurs who are receiving all of this as entertainment.

Another point: hired, armed thugs do not impress me. They deserve to be locked up for a long time! Their presence and their actions were indeed illegal, given that the ownership of the property itself is in contention, without a final court resolution.

One more thing that makes no sense: Playa Buenaventura is located deep within the Bahia Concepcion. It is a closed ended bay. If drug boats were coming and going as Munoz claims, don't you think there would be plenty of surveillance? The Navy has a base at the airstrip at the mouth of the Mulege River. That is also within clear view of the mouth of the Bahia Concepcion, which they patrol. If drug boats were running in and out of there, there is no way they could escape.

So, in closing, I reiterate: I cannot know the truth. All I can do is make character judgments based on my acquaintance with Marc and Olivia. They appear to be nice people and I like them.

The rest of my opinion is based on my logic and conjecture, and that is subjective. You may certainly disagree.

Alan - 3-13-2012 at 04:16 PM

I do find it funny that Munoz seems to be very proud of the nickname "Mano Negro". Isn't that Mexican slang for a cheater?

Woooosh - 3-13-2012 at 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
I do find it funny that Munoz seems to be very proud of the nickname "Mano Negro". Isn't that Mexican slang for a cheater?

He wears a black glove due to a hand injury. He could change the color though and mess with everybody. Thought maybe you didn't know.

Public records

wessongroup - 3-13-2012 at 05:02 PM

Brings up an interesting point, to what degree in Mexico is "their" Freedom of Information Act" in place to aid in redress in a situation like this, as they® do have one ...

Resources on Mexican Constitutional Reform on Access to Information

"On July 20, 2007 the constitutional reform bill was made into a law, giving Federal and state agencies one year after that date to comply with the modifications laid out in the reform’s statutes. Furthermore, the third article of the law obliges municipalities with more than 70,000 inhabitants to make their procedures available electronically, creating an immediate need for technical expertise in access to information."

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/mexico/article6.htm


Aaahhh ... all of this would in most likelihood fallen under "Public information" and could be recovered under current law in Mexico .. and then Published online if one wished to .. as it is "public" ... an ongoing investigation by Agency may be excluded, have read the whole thing ... just wondered if Mexico had a FIA ... kinda like we "used" to have ... we now have a few more exclusions to the FIA in the United States, at this time ...

And for what it's worth ... would appear to be an excellent area for job and/or business opportunity .. :biggrin::biggrin:

[Edited on 3-14-2012 by wessongroup]

Thugs are in jail. . . .

Mula - 3-14-2012 at 09:38 AM

Policiaca
Confirma la Procuraduría orden de aprehensión contra María Elizabeth y Mario Alán
El Sudcaliforniano
14 de marzo de 2012


La Paz, Baja California Sur.- La Procuraduría General de Justicia del Estado confirma la aprehensión de María Elizabeth Espinoza Montaño y Mario Alán Pérez Rivera, presuntos responsables por el delito de despojo agravado.

Informó que elementos de la Policía Ministerial del Estado destacamentados en Santa Rosalía, Baja California Sur, ejecutaron orden de aprehensión girada por el Juez Mixto de Primera Instancia del Partido Judicial Mulegé con sede en Santa Rosalía, B.C.S., en contra de las citadas personas,quienes cumplieron medida cautelar de arraigo por 30 días dentro del proceso penal de fecha 11 de marzo del 2012, quedando internos en el Centro de Reinserción Social de Santa Rosalía, B.C.S. a disposición del Juez de la Causa que los reclama.

Hechos ocurridos el domingo 05 de febrero del 2012 en la playa Buena Aventura, teniendo la intervención del Agente del Ministerio Público mediante la denuncia interpuesta por María Olivia Higuera Aguilar, quien denunció la comisión de los delitos de Despojo Agravado cometidos en su contra, por parte de Mario Alán Pérez y María Elizabeth Espinoza Montaño.

La denunciante María Olivia Higuera Aguilar, presentó ante el Agente del Ministerio Público copia certificada de la restitución de tres inmuebles que se encuentran en la playa denominada Buena Ventura en el municipio de Mulegé, Baja California Sur, realizada por el Tribunal Agrario en noviembre del año próximo pasado y de la cual gozaba de posesión al momento de la comisión del delito.

Por lo anterior, el representante social procedió a declarar a los probables responsables, recabando testimoniales así como periciales que se integraron a la Averiguación Previa.

Misma que fue consignada ante el Juez Mixto de Primera Instancia de Santa Rosalía, B.C.S. quien libró la correspondiente orden de aprehensión en contra lo los probables responsables antes mencionados.

Policiaca
Confirma la Procuraduría orden de aprehensión contra María Elizabeth y Mario Alán
El Sudcaliforniano
14 de marzo de 2012

BING TRANSLATOR

David K - 3-14-2012 at 09:43 AM

Police
The Attorney confirms arrest warrant against Mario Alan and Mary Elizabeth
The Sudcaliforniano
14 March 2012



La Paz, Baja California Sur-La Attorney General of Justice of the State confirms the arrest of Maria Elizabeth Espinoza Montaño and Mario Alan Pérez Rivera, suspects for the crime of aggravated deprivation.


It was reported that the State Ministerial police elements destacamentados in Santa Rosalía, Baja California Sur, executed warrant rotated by the Joint Court of first instance of the Mulegé Judicial party headquartered in Santa Rosalía, B.C.S., against these persons, who met as prudential roots for 30 days within the criminal process of date 11 March 2012leaving inmates in the Centre of Social reinsertion of Santa Rosalía, B.C.S. at the disposal of the judge of the cause that demands.


Events on Sunday, February 05, 2012 in the good adventure Beach, with the intervention of the agent of the public prosecutor by the complaint filed by Maria Olivia Higuera Aguilar, who denounced the Commission of dispossession aggravated offences against him, by Mario Alan Perez and Maria Elizabeth Espinoza Montaño.


The complainant Maria Olivia Higuera Aguilar, presented before the public prosecutor agent certified copy of the restitution of three buildings located on the beach called good Ventura in the municipality of Mulegé, Baja California Sur, by the Agrarian Court in November of next year and which enjoyed possession at the time of the Commission of the offence.


Therefore, the social representative proceeded to declare those likely responsible, seek testimonials as well as expert joined to the previous investigation.


Same that was recorded before the mixed Court of first instance of Santa Rosalía, B.C.S. who fought the corresponding warrant against the probable perpetrators mentioned above.


Police
The Attorney confirms arrest warrant against Mario Alan and Mary Elizabeth
The Sudcaliforniano
14 March 2012

Woooosh - 3-14-2012 at 11:47 AM

re: the above: They were transferred to that jail for arraignment where they will either be set free or sentenced.

On the Ejido topic:

A huge Ejido in eastern Tijuana is evicting 30,000 families. They voided all the land titles the people held and are throwing them off. I do hope Mexico come to terms with all this soon. To me throwing 30,000 families off their land is far different than expats and rich Mexican lawyers fighting over places for development like PB.

http://www.el-mexicano.com.mx/informacion/noticias/1/3/estat...

TIJUANA - More than 30,000 families, mainly lower class, who purchased lands from private individuals and the state government via INDIVI and INETT, will be affected with the resolution and final judgement issued by the Superior Agrarian Court in favor of Ejido Javier Rojo Gómez, awarding them almost 404 hectares (1,000 acres).

These lands were occupied and sold by private individuals and the state government, which delivered property titles. Now all that has been rendered void, and those occupying the land will have to leave, if not they can be evicted by the police.

This was reported yesterday in this journal by señores Leonardo Salazar and Francisco Ledezma, president and treasurer of the Ejido.

"With this ruling, we have finally put an end to this agrarian trail 13/98, which ended last August 23, 2011. It lasted through 18 long years of litigation and which overcame several amparos (habeus corpus) put up by the opposing party, " they said.

[Edited on 3-14-2012 by Woooosh]

mtgoat666 - 3-14-2012 at 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
re: the above: They were transferred to that jail for arraignment where they will either be set free or sentenced.

On the Ejido topic:

A huge Ejido in eastern Tijuana is evicting 30,000 families. They voided all the land titles the people held and are throwing them off. I do hope Mexico come to terms with all this soon. To me throwing 30,000 families off their land is far different than expats and rich Mexican lawyers fighting over places for development like PB.

http://www.el-mexicano.com.mx/informacion/noticias/1/3/estat...

TIJUANA - More than 30,000 families, mainly lower class, who purchased lands from private individuals and the state government via INDIVI and INETT, will be affected with the resolution and final judgement issued by the Superior Agrarian Court in favor of Ejido Javier Rojo Gómez, awarding them almost 404 hectares (1,000 acres).

These lands were occupied and sold by private individuals and the state government, which delivered property titles. Now all that has been rendered void, and those occupying the land will have to leave, if not they can be evicted by the police.

This was reported yesterday in this journal by señores Leonardo Salazar and Francisco Ledezma, president and treasurer of the Ejido.

"With this ruling, we have finally put an end to this agrarian trail 13/98, which ended last August 23, 2011. It lasted through 18 long years of litigation and which overcame several amparos (habeus corpus) put up by the opposing party, " they said.

[Edited on 3-14-2012 by Woooosh]


30k families is like over 100k people,.. the eviction will never happen,... such mass eviction would lead to riots,...

wessongroup - 3-14-2012 at 01:45 PM

"These lands were occupied and sold by private individuals and the state government, which delivered property titles. Now all that has been rendered void, and those occupying the land will have to leave, if not they can be evicted by the police."

The disposition of the ruling is another issue .... IMHO

Woooosh - 3-14-2012 at 03:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
"These lands were occupied and sold by private individuals and the state government, which delivered property titles. Now all that has been rendered void, and those occupying the land will have to leave, if not they can be evicted by the police."

The disposition of the ruling is another issue .... IMHO


def true. and it def wouldn't happening in an election year anyway.

ramuma53 - 3-14-2012 at 07:59 PM

Yesterday afternoon, the Santa Rosalia criminal court, dropped the aggravated robbery charges as groundless against Matrio Alan Perez and Maria Elizabeth Espinoz Montano.

He found completely out of order the charges and detention order, denying the formal prision order, they are completely free of those charges.
:fire::spingrin:
The judge found that the only basis used by the Estate District attorney to put those charges on them, was that Olivia Higuera Aguilar, told the Sub District Attorney that she, during the night and using binoculars, saw some people entering the houses she claim are hers and she supposed, that they were robbing; she did not show any proof that anything was stolen, she did not even said that anything specific was stolen, only that she thought that they may have been stealing something from her property; of course during the night and with binoculars at 300 mts. She did not recognize anybody, but she said that Alan and Betty were the ones that were the most likely to have been doing it.:rolleyes:

The judge felt offended by the Estate District attorney order for the arrest with those legal basis and just immediately dropped the charges and declared them free of those charges.:tumble:

The other charge filled by the Estate District attorney was for ‘Despojo’ or illegal property occupation; he was able to do that, because the Mulege District Attorney, denied our attorney the right to offer legal proof, that my property is a legal property and they were using my property, not any other property, since they were detained inside my hotel, something that not even the Estate District Attorney argue.

They acted on the affirmation :saint:by Olivia Higuera Aguilar that she was the Hotel Buenaventura owner:rolleyes:, that the Agrarian court had ordered my possession taken away from me, but she did not offer any legal proof of her words and the Estate District Attorney acted on the belief that she was telling the true facts:saint:; then Olivia provided 3 Agrarian Court orders against 3 Americans, not against me and not against my hotel or my hotel's property.

We are just providing the Criminal judge, with the legal proof concerning my legal property and in a couple of days, as soon as the public notary provides certified copies, they will be free of any charge and free to go.

He just cannot believe that the Estate District attorney retained them in jail for 30 days and then filled charges with those legal proofs or the lack of absolutely no credible legal proof.:fire:

On the weapons use, no charges were filled because the weapons are legal and had legal permitts.

This vindicate my affirmation that the Estate District attorney just helped Olivia Higuera Aguilar to try to appropriate my hotel without any legal cause; he did it by putting in jail all my employees and letting Olivia enter the hotel to freely steal everything she liked and even tell herself the proprietor based on a Agrarian Court order, something completely false.

What we just witnessed was an attempt by the Estate District Attorney to steal a private property in favor of a known criminal.

Today a Federal Police went to my hotel and found Olivia Higuera Aguilar at my hotel, telling that she was the owner based on an Agrarian Court order against me, but when the police asked for the order, she showed only the Agrarian Court order against 3 other people and also not mentioning my hotel and when he confronted her with those facts, she just went out of the hotel telling him that she will bring the Estate District attorney to confiscate the hotel again; some of my employees are tonight inside my hotel again.:bounce:

Ok, this will completely clear my people and allow them to go free, my employees are tonight in my hotel again and Olivia is out forever, at least legally and as long as her Estate District attorney’s friends commit again another felony.

Now, on my side, I will continue pressing the Estate District attorney to execute the 10 criminal charges against Maria Olvia Higuera Aguilar LA VAQUERA for Robbery, assault, injuries with intent to kill, property damage, falsehood to judicial authority; criminal investigations that the Estate District attorney has been holding without sending them to the criminal judge in a complete cinical abuse of power to help LA VAQUERA.

I will press continue to offer proof against the Baja Governor, Estate District Attorney and other criminal associates on the Federal Police bureau specialized on crimes committed by public servants in Mexico city, for kidnapping, vehicle robbery, property damages.:fire:

I I will fill charges and continue to offer proof against the Baja Governor, Estate District Attorney and other criminal associates on Federal court for defamation, economical damages.

I will not falter until every one of them pay for their crimes; they tried, they failed and now is time to pay.:yes:

[Edited on 3-15-2012 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-14-2012 at 08:25 PM

Wooosh
Rojo Gomez people's land was claimed by the Ejido favored by the Baja Estate Government, but I know they have a National title already paid, but they for some very unclear reason have never used that fact, a fact that is decisive, because a National Title cannot by law be affected by an ejido.
There has been several dead people concerning that issue, one of them the neighbors representative’s family, because the Estate government put him in jail and they died in a very suspicious fire while he was in jail, then the Police chief who caught the him and put him in jail was killed, he was dragged behind a car tied from the neck along all the Rojo Gomez streets. A bad way to pay for a bad crime.

Do not worry today, because the Superior Agrarian Judge ruling is not final, now comes the Amparo and if they use the National Land title proof, they will keep their land.

To try to take their land away, the Estate Government has used the Federal Government to hold their title from being issued, but since they already paid for the title, legally the land is already theirs, what is needed now is only the formality if the title, but the time the ownership is transferred is at the time when they paid and the Federal government received their money. The land is legally theirs and it is not legally possible for an Ejido to confiscate a National title land.
This just another case of the Baja Estate government trying to confiscate land to create more industrial parks and the reason is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Woooosh - 3-14-2012 at 10:14 PM

So the 30,000 families will be OK because their titles were drawn against a National Land Title from the SRA? The ejido was never valid because it was already transferred out of the National Lands by paid transfer? That took 20 years to figure out and they still got it wrong?

BTW: Glad you prevailed in PB. Are you still planning on blocking access to the Restaurant?

Turn your sights toward Rosarito- someone is leasing your previously empty condo building- Playa Bonita. Maybe have your lawyer call and see who the "owner" is on the lease? (building CFE Bill says Grupo Aries, real estate broker is Gustavo Torres.) The Torres' didn't do so well against you the last time.



[Edited on 3-15-2012 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 3-14-2012 at 10:33 PM

Was willing to deal with the 156 square feet .. but, the deal breaker was no DOGS !!:biggrin::biggrin:

Woooosh - 3-14-2012 at 11:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Was willing to deal with the 156 square feet .. but, the deal breaker was no DOGS !!:biggrin::biggrin:

Rent is triple local market. must be 156m2 huh? Two units per floor.
100% in either the "Marine" or "Federal Zone" with an official and published measurment in the works.

Cypress - 3-15-2012 at 05:14 AM

His thugs got out of jail. Back on the street. You could consider that a win.

ELINVESTIG8R - 3-15-2012 at 06:55 AM

HERE THEY COME AGAIN



Woooosh - 3-15-2012 at 09:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cypress
His thugs got out of jail. Back on the street. You could consider that a win.

Not until they legally block all the access to the restaurant.
:saint:

Before all the M&O supporters get their panties bunched up, a NEW player has entered the picture and she is claiming it ALL for herself now:

"She asks for the efforts of the attorney general to help her recover her property.

Elizabeth Aragón, owner of more than 770 hectares (2,000 acres) of beach front land said that Rafael Muñoz Martínez had invaded her land.

Looking for follow-up on the complaint 037/2008, for the crime of invasion of property and unlawful possession that was made years ago before the state attorney in Mulege, yesterday Elizabeth Aragón went before the head of the State Attorney General's office with the purpose of expediting the case so she can recover those parts of her property occupied by an individual named Rafael Muñoz Martínez, known as "El Mano Negro."

Interviewed after her discussion with the attorney general, Elizabeth Aragón said she has been the owner of more that 770 hectares, which includes beachfront land, such as playas Tinajas de Armenta, Armenta, Requesón, Almejas and Perla, but also Buenaventura, where recently there has been a problem with the presence of armed men, including shots fired against another person, the same people she accuses of illegally occupying her land.

She said that in light of these events and because there exists a complaint, she decided to look for help from the Attorney General and the state governor. Her goal is that through the public prosecutor of Mulege, she can expedite the process of freeing her property that was cordoned off with yellow tape for ministerial measures, but which belongs to her, according to property title documents that were awarded to her by the President of the Republic through Agrarian Reform.

She added that she has planned a holistic center on the property, and that investors have come to see the property, but could not enter due to the conflict, so they left, a situation which is needlessly damaging her.

Finally, she said that as she is the sole owner of the lands, she needs the support of the authorities to establish responsibilities and to allow her the use of her properties which have been invaded. "As the owner, the only thing I want is peace so I can work, " she said."

[Edited on 3-15-2012 by Woooosh]

wessongroup - 3-15-2012 at 12:41 PM

Say, ya sure about those "Thugs" ... or, are they making a come back ... :biggrin::biggrin:

"(Thug) historical a member of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India. Devotees of the goddess Kali, the Thugs waylaid and strangled their victims, usually travelers, in a ritually prescribed manner. They were suppressed by the British in the 1830s."

Not sure what a female thug would be ... thugess ... oh, well ... on to other off topic issues... :lol::lol:

Puckdrop - 3-15-2012 at 12:52 PM

WOW, my head hurts from reading all this he said she said. But you know what, we have enough material here (47 pages) to write a book. So we don't have the ending yet but with some imagination we can all make up our own ending. Who wants to take the first shot (sorry) at the last chapter of this book? OH, and we need a title too :lol:

Cypress - 3-15-2012 at 12:53 PM

Remember the old TV program "I've got a secret". Will the real owner please step forward?:biggrin:

wessongroup - 3-15-2012 at 12:58 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Appears it is time for another "Amparo"....

surfer jim - 3-15-2012 at 03:25 PM

...a NEW owner appears:yes:.......just when things were slowing down.

So what's gonna happen now?:rolleyes:

XPBRes - 3-15-2012 at 08:28 PM

If this wasn't sad for some of us who actually played parts in this saga, I would find this interesting and incredible funny too!

We along with Stan Valentine were the 1st to improve the north end of the beach in 1992. The part that is interesting to us is that we heard very little the 1st 10 years while Mike George ran the beach. Mike was responsible for improvements to the beach, the way you see it today.

No big improvements since he left. Next 10 years, lives and property ruined and no one still knows the truth.

The one thing that comes to mind is you see projects all over the Baja that are unfinished, Is this what happens? Money is used to improve land and then ownership is questioned?

For over 20 years I have been involved with Playa Buenaventure, watching a bare beach transform into a community.:D Then to have people 10 -20 years later claiming to own land that they never visited while it was being developed?:?::?::?:

I plan, like the rest of the calm and collected people on this forum, to wait and see the real outcome.......... don't think it will be soon!!!!!!!!!!!

Woooosh - 3-15-2012 at 08:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XPBRes
If this wasn't sad for some of us who actually played parts in this saga, I would find this interesting and incredible funny too!

We along with Stan Valentine were the 1st to improve the north end of the beach in 1992. The part that is interesting to us is that we heard very little the 1st 10 years while Mike George ran the beach. Mike was responsible for improvements to the beach, the way you see it today.

No big improvements since he left. Next 10 years, lives and property ruined and no one still knows the truth.

The one thing that comes to mind is you see projects all over the Baja that are unfinished, Is this what happens? Money is used to improve land and then ownership is questioned?

For over 20 years I have been involved with Playa Buenaventure, watching a bare beach transform into a community.:D Then to have people 10 -20 years later claiming to own land that they never visited while it was being developed?:?::?::?:

I plan, like the rest of the calm and collected people on this forum, to wait and see the real outcome.......... don't think it will be soon!!!!!!!!!!!

You could at least ask her for the lease to your house just in case. IF she is the true owner, and that's a huge IF... she would love to have a renter like you to cement her claim.
:saint::saint:

XPBRes - 3-15-2012 at 08:43 PM

Thanks, done that with 2 people already and they still haven't proved anything other than they can't get along.

Plus the way things stand I could rent a beautiful home anywhere in Mexico for a lot less money and trouble!

ramuma53 - 3-16-2012 at 10:54 AM

Elizabeth ****** Hemke
She came to me to try to negotiate part of my property claiming that she was the owner.

When I saw her documents, she had a contract with Mr. Gorosave Senior, selling her the right to buy from the National Land office a piece of land he felt he may have a property right because he had an 1863 Benito Juarez property Title with the name Gorosave on it and he claim that the 1863 owner was related to him (something extremely difficult to prove and if proved will have another 500 people to share that right).

It is exactly as if I sell you, my right to buy the Mexican National Palace and you are enough ignorant to buy it and pay for it, even if the sale is a formal one (Public notary sanctioned sale).

She even went with those arguments to the Agrarian Magistrate with those claims and that fact alone has legal consequences.

FIRST.- She did not bought any property right, SHE BOUGHT THE RIGHT TO BUY from the Real Estate owner and that buy did not make her the owner, only the legal claimer for that land and if that land was recognized as National Land by both parties, the owner is the Nation and she has the right to claim it in first place from the owner; that contract was made in 1998. But, you must understand that the right to buy is subjected to the Owner being legally able to sell or even to he wanting to sell. In this case, if the owner is the National Land office, then since they had already sold the land to me in 1992, they would be legally unable to sell it again.

SECOND.- When I saw the 1863 National Land title, it is a very nice engineering work, even with slope lines and Astronomical location made by sun observations; that will fix the location of its points to within 20 mts. Then I just looked for the Astronomical coordinates in the INEGI official map and found out, that the location for that title is 30,000 mts. Inland and since it has slope lines, it clearly show that it include a water stream, but it does not border the sea; also according to the slope lines, the water stream’s direction is north to south and the only location where the water streams run in that direction is exactly 30 km. inland; the only coincidence was that the name is similar to the one that is included in my title POZA, but that name is very common because it means a water pond and there are hundreds of those around.

I confronted her with those facts and informed her that she according to her documents, did not own anything, but the good news was that she may have the right to claim the land 30 km. inland, but she did not want to hear bad news and continue to claim the same and even went to the Agrarian Magistrate to try to enter the legal procedures Olivia had against me then, but the Agrarian Magistrate found her claims groundless and just dismissed her claims as groundless.

Her claim to the Agrarian Magistrate, made her legally acknowledge the fact that my title exist and since she had a final judgment and did nothing, she legally accepted that my title exist and is legal and as a legal consequence, she no longer has any legal recourse available to her.

Of course, since then, she continue to talk all over the place about the land being her property, she even tried to go on Olivia side, but since both are stubborn, ignorant and ambitious they want the whole property for themselves, she did not made any alliance with her.

Here for anyone who want a Real Estate opportunity, is a 200 Has. Real Estate lot, without a legal claim, the only problem it is 30 Km. inland and you have to buy it from the National land office. Elizabeth ****** Hemke is just too stubborn to take advantage of this fact.

[Edited on 3-16-2012 by ramuma53]

ramuma53 - 3-16-2012 at 11:42 AM

Cypress and other Olivia Higuera Aguilar La Vaquera advocates.

Sorry for those who think that more property problems are coming to me.

To prove property, the Public Registry office exist, and the only one with a Public Registry right in it is me.

If you try to find any Olivia or Nark's right you will find nothing, or Elizabeth ****** Hemke nothing.

At this time, the only cloud on the horizon is the new support the Estate Justice department is providing to Olivia, but that support does not include the Judicial system and that is proving a basical point.:bounce:

We have talked to the judge and we found out that the legal proof my attorney Joaquin Cuesta provided to the District Attorney to prove that I own the hotel and that my employees were there exercising that right, were not included in the file sent to the judge on the basis, that my attorney was also part of the criminal investigation and not able to provide proof that may benefit us (??????????????).

As a cosequence, aparently we had not provided proof of my right to my property included for the judge consideration and the Despojo charges were not dropped like the robery ones.:fire:

In other words, through a false statement, because Joaquin Cuesta is free and not part of the criminal charges, they denied us of the legal proof he offered to justificate their presence at my hotel.:fire:

As you see, the Estate District Attorney is going to the extreme to violate every legal right we have to try to support what they did and try to make it last as much as possible. And then they say they are the justice department.:lol:

They took 30 days to try to fabricate legal proof of crimes that were never committed and failed on the robbery charges that were dismissed to start by the criminal judge as groundless. They hided my property rights proof to try to keep it going, but now failed again.:fire:

I think that their illegal support to Oliva and Nark is evident and will cost them dearly, they simply did not expect our strong reaction.

On the illegal occupation charges, now we found that my title and property papers were not accepted as legal proof using false statements. This delay my defense, but it just delayed it because my other 5 attorneys are providing the proof to the criminal judge and he agree no crime was committed and it is a matter of putting the legal proof in as soon as possible.:saint:

My legal time table will put my employees free of any charge in about 20 to 30 days.

Then we will start putting people in jail for all the crimes committed against us by the public servants and Olivia and Nark of course. This time no silk glove will be used and all my legal rights will be put in force to work, even if the Estate justice department wants another try. This time Olivia will be gone for good.:no:

[Edited on 3-16-2012 by ramuma53]

DianaT - 3-16-2012 at 11:44 AM

In a very short statement, is there a final resolution to this Playa Buenaventura mess?

Or will it be a few more years before it is settled?

wessongroup - 3-16-2012 at 11:53 AM

Yes, subject to .....

ramuma53 - 3-16-2012 at 12:06 PM

Diana T
Yes, no crimes were committed by my employees and is now a matter to put the legal paperwork in for they to be free completely and without any criminal charges.

They went to the extreme to put out orders for the arrest of my other employees, the ones that were free without charges from the start, this of course to try to press them in to making false statements to go out of jail, but they all know this fact and will be enjoying a short vacation.

This is out of the Estate District Attorney's hands, it is now the criminal judge responsibility to correct the injustice created by the District attorney by helping Olivia and Nark completely out of the law.

But now the criminal charges I made to the Federal Police will start to be felt and they will start to run, from the Estate District attorney down; at this time they changed the Mulege District attorney Aloy Aguilar Yee to Loreto to try to protect him, but he will be the first to pay for his criminal acts.

Also, I am accessing the political leaders from all the political parties and they are hearing what I am saying; they do not say much in response, but we will feel their reaction and it is very possible we will see a strong reaction against the Estate Government.

Also we put those charges to the United Nations consideration, they will take their time but a resolution will be coming soon.

My people will be free soon, but that is not the goal now, the goal is to make the criminals pay for their acts so they do not feel tempted to do it again.

DianaT - 3-16-2012 at 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Yes, subject to .....


:biggrin: Just thought I would ask.

Sounds like it will be a while yet.

ramuma53 - 3-16-2012 at 12:18 PM

wessongroup
About your naming my employees thugs:
Hope you have half his formal education and record, but let me tell you that Mario Alan Perez, is a professional Public Accountant, attorney at law and a security specialist, who has served in the Mexico Federal Bureau of investigation for years, with a completely clean police record and the one who resisted the temptation to kill Olivia when attacked by her with pepper spray; something that would justify him on firing on her his legal fire weapon.
Maria Elizabeth Espinoza Montano, is a professional business manager with years in experience; also one of the biggest land owner in Baja; she work for me to learn and to repay me for me helping her to legalize her properties and we are talking about 2300 Has. of the best Beach front property in Baja.

What I can tell you, is that the Baja government picked the wrong guys to make them victims of their illegal help to Olivia, a known criminal already convicted of several crimes and more to come; those people, without me, will make them pay for years to come by their own power.

Thugs, No, they have more education than most people and more money coming than 99.9% of the population and not from me, by their own means already established. You will see in the near future.

ramuma53 - 3-16-2012 at 12:23 PM

Diana T
Sadly yes, the legal department takes his time, even to free honest people and to put in jail the real criminals, Mexico is slow but it is a law state and justice will come, we just have to wait and follow the rules.

So do not worry, this thread will show you the real Mexico and how problems are solved here. We are not hiding it, we are showing you reality and how crooks try but fail.

vengance is mine sayeth the lord!!!!!!

mtgoat666 - 3-16-2012 at 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
My people will be free soon, but that is not the goal now, the goal is to make the criminals pay for their acts so they do not feel tempted to do it again.


"my goal is [revenge!]"

ramsanus: grow up, move on, quit being such a prick!

no one will ever visit your hotel if you keep saying such crap!!!

p.s. any nomads care to write a hotel review of "hotel revenge" at "playa whacko?" i really need to see a few pics of this place

DianaT - 3-16-2012 at 12:29 PM

BTW--- I have not taken "sides" with anyone as I find it all very confusing. However, since we "own" property in Baja through a fideocamiso, I am always curious as to how these property disputes end.

Our property was bought by a local from the Municipality and then we bought it several years later. That is how all the lots in BA have been purchased, except the ejido land. I guess there are never any absolutes---

wessongroup - 3-16-2012 at 01:16 PM

Sorry for any confusion on this, as I was only pointing out the "source" for the name "thugs" which was being used about your employee's ... and/or you .. with some humor, on my part ... sorry it missed
Quote:
Originally posted by wessongroup
Say, ya sure about those "Thugs" ... or, are they making a come back ... :biggrin::biggrin:

"(Thug) historical a member of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India. Devotees of the goddess Kali, the Thugs waylaid and strangled their victims, usually travelers, in a ritually prescribed manner. They were suppressed by the British in the 1830s."

Not sure what a female thug would be ... thugess ... oh, well ... on to other off topic issues... :lol::lol:





Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
wessongroup
About your naming my employees thugs:
Hope you have half his formal education and record, but let me tell you that Mario Alan Perez, is a professional Public Accountant, attorney at law and a security specialist, who has served in the Mexico Federal Bureau of investigation for years, with a completely clean police record and the one who resisted the temptation to kill Olivia when attacked by her with pepper spray; something that would justify him on firing on her his legal fire weapon.
Maria Elizabeth Espinoza Montano, is a professional business manager with years in experience; also one of the biggest land owner in Baja; she work for me to learn and to repay me for me helping her to legalize her properties and we are talking about 2300 Has. of the best Beach front property in Baja.

What I can tell you, is that the Baja government picked the wrong guys to make them victims of their illegal help to Olivia, a known criminal already convicted of several crimes and more to come; those people, without me, will make them pay for years to come by their own power.

Thugs, No, they have more education than most people and more money coming than 99.9% of the population and not from me, by their own means already established. You will see in the near future.


[Edited on 3-16-2012 by wessongroup]

[Edited on 3-16-2012 by wessongroup]

latina - 3-16-2012 at 01:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ramuma53
wessongroup
About your naming my employees thugs:
Hope you have half his formal education and record, but let me tell you that Mario Alan Perez, is a professional Public Accountant, attorney at law and a security specialist, who has served in the Mexico Federal Bureau of investigation for years, with a completely clean police record and the one who resisted the temptation to kill Olivia when attacked by her with pepper spray; something that would justify him on firing on her his legal fire weapon.
Maria Elizabeth Espinoza Montano, is a professional business manager with years in experience; also one of the biggest land owner in Baja; she work for me to learn and to repay me for me helping her to legalize her properties and we are talking about 2300 Has. of the best Beach front property in Baja.

What I can tell you, is that the Baja government picked the wrong guys to make them victims of their illegal help to Olivia, a known criminal already convicted of several crimes and more to come; those people, without me, will make them pay for years to come by their own power.

Thugs, No, they have more education than most people and more money coming than 99.9% of the population and not from me, by their own means already established. You will see in the near future.


Seriously....If people's lives weren't involved I would have died laughing by now:lol:
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