BajaNomad - Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

Gary Patton - Updated Jan. 5, 2015

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bajaguy - 3-20-2014 at 12:12 PM

This link shows the various types of search patterns used by CAP and SAR units.

Although it references aircraft, it gives a general idea on how searches are conducted and these patterns can be adapted to foot searches.

http://tinyurl.com/kwqn7gx

bajajudy - 3-20-2014 at 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
There are many that think that when your in Mexico the police and locals are corrupt and will take advantage of any type of situation that leaves you helpless.

What has recently happened with finding Garys vehicle and all of the valuables left inside I take my hat off to those that were involved and allowing the family to recover what was found.

This information needs to get past this Nomads site and show that Mexico, it's officials, and citizens are honest and respectful.

Bad things happen anywhere in the world but honesty and respect for others is still alive and well here in Mexico.

Hear hear!
Excellent point LL

EnsenadaDr - 3-20-2014 at 12:25 PM

I was thinking the same thing. The honesty and integrity of the Mexican police in this case must be lauded.

Quote:

rts551 - 3-20-2014 at 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BooJumMan
Post says the car was found by the Ocean. I am surprised it hadn't been found earlier. This year was very busy with surfers in that area. (Most I have ever seen by far).

I'm curious on the exact location. I spent 14 days in the area this winter and did a lot of driving around. Also, this area experienced a lot of rainfall this past summer as the lowlands were full of water and lots of mud.

I would be willing to travel down for a few days in help search, please PM me if needed.

not to mention the Baja 1000 last November

Mexitron - 3-20-2014 at 12:47 PM

Quote:

I'm curious too, trying to think of "sandy" areas that would be so far away from the main coast road out there. The wash at Punta Lazaro is pretty wide and can be driven up a ways. Santa Maria Dunes too, but not hard to walk out for help there....Suppose the chalk pits swallowed his car somewhere like the Cono/Blanca run?

pappy - 3-20-2014 at 01:53 PM

the chalk pits were what i was thinking. like you said mexitron, sm dunes would be a fairly easy trek to help. if he got stuck on an actual beach along there his vehicle would certainly have been pounded by surf and swept away.

either way, a terrible situation. prayers to the family...

Kgryfon - 3-20-2014 at 01:55 PM

My condolences to the family, as it appears this has become a recovery mission rather than a rescue. I'm very sorry.

Skipjack Joe - 3-20-2014 at 03:54 PM

A sad and unexpected, for me, ending. I was almost sure that at that age, Gary had been overwhelmed by someone wanting his possessions.

This should be a reminder to always carry water with you in Baja, far more than you think you need. This misfortune was preventable.

There should be a discussion on what you(we) should do to have this not happen to you.

DENNIS - 3-20-2014 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
This should be a reminder to always carry water with you in Baja, far more than you think you need. This misfortune was preventable.

As well as never travel off the beaten path alone.

vgabndo - 3-20-2014 at 04:02 PM

Just let me know where to join-up, and I can be there in half a day with my quad, camping gear, and ready to do extensive hiking. I have only VHF and Family band radios, and no GPS.

I am standing by. my cell is 615 161 7546, and I check Nomads maniacally including u2u.

rts551 - 3-20-2014 at 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
A sad and unexpected, for me, ending. I was almost sure that at that age, Gary had been overwhelmed by someone wanting his possessions.

This should be a reminder to always carry water with you in Baja, far more than you think you need. This misfortune was preventable.

There should be a discussion on what you(we) should do to have this not happen to you.

yes, Igor. but it should be a tread of its own.. It will be filled with pictures of tire tracks and instructions on how much air you should have in your tires.

This thread deserves a life of its own.

[Edited on 3-20-2014 by rts551]

renebruz - 3-20-2014 at 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
This should be a reminder to always carry water with you in Baja, far more than you think you need. This misfortune was preventable.

As well as never travel off the beaten path alone.

I don't agree, not everyone travels with someone, or wants to. I just spent 3 weeks doing 2,500 miles down all around, traveled alone the entire time, drove offroad a ton, all in a lil subie outback, even that rock road from hwy 1 to coco's corner, and that crazy section along the ocean up to Bahia Asuncion, that road was scary in that there really was not much of a clear marking you had to use common sense and keep within site of the power lines, knowing that they would lead to a village. The key is to check in with people, that is where it could have helped. I bought a at&t card so I was able to make calls in towns before I went off the beaten path ( had 10 gals of water and tons of pasta with me always, power bars as well). On the flipside there is NOT guarantee that's he's passed, he very well could have found a ride, he very well could be sick and just being taken care of somewhere, to claim he's dead is not right, didn't you all see the guy floating out in the ocean for over 1 year, he was found alive. There is hope! Remember humans are where they are because of others that did venture off the beaten path !!!!

[Edited on 3-20-2014 by renebruz]

vgabndo - 3-20-2014 at 04:29 PM

Sorry bud, but the two roads that you "even" drove all alone are heavily traveled dirt freeways compared to remote two track. It has been SIX MONTHS. You don't think the family that is nursing him back to health out in the desert hasn't been to town to mention that they have a dying gringo at their house? Even his family isn't as optimistic as you. I judge that you are on the wrong track.

And welcome to the forum!

[Edited on 3-20-2014 by vgabndo]

Majorcynik - 3-20-2014 at 04:56 PM

You should contact Ralph at Rancho Santa Inez. He did S&R in San Diego and knows the whole area like the back of his hand. Has 4x4 and quad as well.

mtgoat666 - 3-20-2014 at 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DENNIS

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
This should be a reminder to always carry water with you in Baja, far more than you think you need. This misfortune was preventable.

As well as never travel off the beaten path alone.

solitude in the wilderness is wonderful. the risks are worth it.

Ateo - 3-20-2014 at 05:14 PM

Depending on when this search is conducted, my family and I may be able to assist.

DENNIS - 3-20-2014 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

solitude in the wilderness is wonderful. the risks are worth it.

Your timing for this is questionable, Sr. Goat, although I know what you mean.

woody with a view - 3-20-2014 at 05:59 PM

i don't see where anyone said his rig was near the ocean. Can someone quote that blurb? there is sand everywhere along that stretch, not just near the ocean.

Ateo - 3-20-2014 at 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
URGENT update to our fellow nomads.
Late last night we received a phone call from a police commander in Catavinia that Gary's 4runner had been found. Articles in the vehicle appear to confirm it is Gary's.. The vehicle was found by the ocean, not sure where, but we'll report back as soon as we know more.

Woody......ocean reference above.

woody with a view - 3-20-2014 at 06:11 PM

hmmmm.............

woody with a view - 3-20-2014 at 06:16 PM

interested to see where it actually was. i can think of some out of the way places out there, but nothing that is too crazy that couldn't be dealt with unless injury prevented walking. i hope it isn't in the cono moon dust zone.

if he fell down they'll never find him!

willardguy - 3-20-2014 at 06:16 PM

could have been either side I suppose.....

rts551 - 3-20-2014 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
interested to see where it actually was. i can think of some out of the way places out there, but nothing that is too crazy that couldn't be dealt with unless injury prevented walking. i hope it isn't in the cono moon dust zone.

if he fell down they'll never find him!

If it was in Sep when he first went missing, it is very hot between Vizcaino and the coast.

woody with a view - 3-20-2014 at 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551

Quote:

If it was in Sep when he first went missing, it is very hot between Vizcaino and the coast.

if he was near the coast it doesn't get too hot. if he was near the hiway he pulled the short straw. if you are familiar with that area west of Catavina there isn't a whole lotta branch roads to get lost on....... i'm waiting for the whole story.....

SoCalPattonCrew - 3-20-2014 at 08:39 PM

As Gary' sister, I would like to extend to the Baja Nomad participants our appreciation to this amazing group of people who have volunteered to join in the search for Gary. We are overwhelmed by the generosity of people who have followed our journey for over 6 months and have shared our hopes and disappointments. Gary was our Brother, Dad, Uncle, Grandfather and friend to many. Thank you also to LL (lizard lips) for initiating the search and continuing to be a source of information and comfort for us.

Marla Daily - 3-20-2014 at 08:52 PM

I just sent an email to CARDA (California Rescue Dog Association) to see if anyone is available to search with a trained dog.

David K - 3-20-2014 at 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by renebruz

Quote:

Originally posted by vgabndo
Sorry bud, but the two roads that you "even" drove all alone are heavily traveled dirt freeways compared to remote two track. It has been SIX MONTHS. You don't think the family that is nursing him back to health out in the desert hasn't been to town to mention that they have a dying gringo at their house? Even his family isn't as optimistic as you. I judge that you are on the wrong track.

And welcome to the forum!

[Edited on 3-20-2014 by vgabndo]

haha funny guy, here is the pict, you show me the freeway along this stretch to Asuncion.. I was on it for 2.5hrs about 100km got into town at dark, saw not one car, and like I said there was no single road just tons of dbl tracks going all over the place, heck when I first drove north you only saw huge salt beds and had to guess where the heck to go. Mind you I was not in my huge 4x4 I'm rolling a tiny lil outback 1999 whopping 6" of clearance, at least awd

not saying this is what Gary was doing, but it was a nice desolate area that had my car broke down I would be spending the night out for sure and lucky next day to see anyone. fun none the less.

The fish camps get regular traffic from the highway... supplies, ice, whatever they need... and though they are tight-lipped, a bunch of surfers go in there on occasion. Not sure why you posted the larger-than Nomad map of an area hundreds of miles from the one we are talking about, but I think Perry meant by 'dirt freeway' is that there will be more than one car per week on it, it is graded, and 2WD is fine.

The road you took between Abreojos and Asuncion is a freeway, by Baja off road standards. You may not have seen another car for the couple hours you were on it, but if you broke down, you would have had help soon.

Oh, and welcome aboard!

Skipjack Joe - 3-20-2014 at 10:56 PM

I was curious about the reason the vehicle was removed from the site of the 'breakdown' before the family was able to see it. The condition of the car at the site could have provided clues to his whereabouts. There could have been clues of what led him to leave his vehicle and what steps were taken prior to departure, which direction he must have gone. It may have made the upcoming search easier. Tracks in the desert can definitely remain for 6 months. Hopefully the police and rancher haven't trampled over the clues. If it's a really remote area then his prints are the only ones there. Perhaps it would be best to leave the experts do the search before clues are destroyed and organize search parties if and when they have failed.

vgabndo - 3-20-2014 at 11:32 PM

Woody, I'm with you. I hope we'll have more information so assistance can be rendered if requested.

Renebruz, I'm not going to get in a peeing match. Where I presently LIVE is in the picture you posted. I can't imagine anything intimidating about any part of the road from Abreojos to Asuncion. The Co-op grader makes very frequent trips across that road, (as far as La Bocana) and as I said by COMPARISON to a two track, that road is a freeway. People routinely drive that road in rental cars, or pulling vacation trailers.

pappy - 3-21-2014 at 11:32 AM

is it possible he just didn't want to be found?

Bubba - 3-21-2014 at 12:45 PM

Hoping for some type of resolution soon.

motoged - 3-21-2014 at 01:08 PM

While perhaps unlikely, it is still possible he did not park the vehicle there....and that someone else did....and did not vandalize or otherwise do damage to the vehicle and contents.....

Time will hopefully resolve the mystery.....such a hardship for the family.

lizard lips - 3-22-2014 at 11:32 AM

I just want you all to be kept up to date with what has transpired so far.

Garys brother and son have returned from San Quintin without the 4 Runner. The authorities have impounded the SUV because it is still part of the on-going investigation and this is not unusual and is protocol.

We still don't have a police report as yet and I'm assuming they are putting this together right now. Also we don't have the exact location of the where the vehicle was located. Apparently the scene and surrounding area was searched and nothing was found.

The family has told me that they really appreciate your concern and willingness to help with the search and your input on the Nomad board.

There are so many scenarios and assumptions of what could have happened and I'm glad your all posting these. The only idea I have is that Gary was attempting to seek help and depending on how far he was from Hwy. 1 either went towards the ocean or back to the Hwy. He also could have climbed to the highest point he saw and fell. We could go on and on with ideas but will never know until we search.

When we know more and have decided to set a date for a search we MUST contact both the Catavina Police and the Ministerio Publico in San Quintin and enlist their help and allow them to direct us. We don't want to over step their authority and knowledge with this process. They will be a huge asset in this regard. The Mexican Horsemen who found the vehicle must also be contacted for their help as well. There are so many others that have already u2u'ed me that expressed their desire to help and those of you that have posted and have said they will help as well, THANK YOU.

As soon as further information is learned it will be posted.

David K - 3-22-2014 at 11:49 AM

Thank you Dan!!!

DENNIS - 3-22-2014 at 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips

When we know more and have decided to set a date for a search we MUST contact both the Catavina Police and the Ministerio Publico in San Quintin and enlist their help and allow them to direct us.

I'm surprised this hasn't been turned over to the state judicial police.

woody with a view - 3-22-2014 at 01:06 PM

so where was the car found???!!!???

David K - 3-22-2014 at 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody with a view
so where was the car found???!!!???

Hasn't been posted, but somewhere between Hwy. 1 and San José fish camp. Closer to the coast from what has been said.

EnsenadaDr - 3-22-2014 at 02:04 PM

Is the family going to stay in Baja and join the search once scheduled?

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
I just want you all to be kept up to date with what has transpired so far.

Garys brother and son have returned from San Quintin without the 4 Runner. The authorities have impounded the SUV because it is still part of the on-going investigation and this is not unusual and is protocol.

We still don't have a police report as yet and I'm assuming they are putting this together right now. Also we don't have the exact location of the where the vehicle was located. Apparently the scene and surrounding area was searched and nothing was found.

The family has told me that they really appreciate your concern and willingness to help with the search and your input on the Nomad board.

There are so many scenarios and assumptions of what could have happened and I'm glad your all posting these. The only idea I have is that Gary was attempting to seek help and depending on how far he was from Hwy. 1 either went towards the ocean or back to the Hwy. He also could have climbed to the highest point he saw and fell. We could go on and on with ideas but will never know until we search.

When we know more and have decided to set a date for a search we MUST contact both the Catavina Police and the Ministerio Publico in San Quintin and enlist their help and allow them to direct us. We don't want to over step their authority and knowledge with this process. They will be a huge asset in this regard. The Mexican Horsemen who found the vehicle must also be contacted for their help as well. There are so many others that have already u2u'ed me that expressed their desire to help and those of you that have posted and have said they will help as well, THANK YOU.

As soon as further information is learned it will be posted.

lizard lips - 3-22-2014 at 02:17 PM

I'm sure that the family will do whatever is necessary to help and of course they will be there when the search is organized.

This past few months has been very hard on all of them. I can't imagine what they have been through and to provide closure is something that has to be done.

None of the family is in Baja right now. There is no need. Once we learn of the exact location and the vehicle is released we can organize the search and do this in such a way that it is completed in an organized manner and get it right the first time.

EnsenadaDr - 3-22-2014 at 02:35 PM

My condolences to the family first of course. Are you saying then that the Mexican police will not reveal the exact location of where the car was found and have not started searching around the area for Gary?

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
I'm sure that the family will do whatever is necessary to help and of course they will be there when the search is organized.

This past few months has been very hard on all of them. I can't imagine what they have been through and to provide closure is something that has to be done.

None of the family is in Baja right now. There is no need. Once we learn of the exact location and the vehicle is released we can organize the search and do this in such a way that it is completed in an organized manner and get it right the first time.

mtgoat666 - 3-22-2014 at 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Are you saying then that the Mexican police will not reveal the exact location of where the car was found and have not started searching around the area for Gary?

Would expect no less from the police. Bureaucracy before humanity! The motto of all government.

lizard lips - 3-22-2014 at 02:49 PM

Nope, never said that the authorities would not reveal the location but I did say that a search was conducted around the area where the vehicle was found. I don't know to what extent.

As soon as more information is learned either I or the family will post.

rts551 - 3-22-2014 at 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Are you saying then that the Mexican police will not reveal the exact location of where the car was found and have not started searching around the area for Gary?

Would expect no less from the police. Bureaucracy before humanity! The motto of all government.

I would not want a bunch of idiots tramping around aimlessly.

And I think, Ense nada, if you would bother to read the police "apparently" did do a search.

tiotomasbcs - 3-22-2014 at 03:25 PM

I hate to assume anything but rotting food in the cooler must indicate the vehicle has been there awhile? Cold trail after so many weeks/months. Let's hope the family can find him & take him home. Good Luck. Tio

EnsenadaDr - 3-22-2014 at 09:17 PM

So RTS, what does "apparently" mean to you? Apparently to me means not much information was forthcoming.

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Are you saying then that the Mexican police will not reveal the exact location of where the car was found and have not started searching around the area for Gary?

Would expect no less from the police. Bureaucracy before humanity! The motto of all government.

I would not want a bunch of idiots tramping around aimlessly.

And I think, Ense nada, if you would bother to read the police "apparently" did do a search.

BajaNomad - 3-22-2014 at 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
My condolences to the family first of course. Are you saying then that the Mexican police will not reveal the exact location of where the car was found and have not started searching around the area for Gary?

Quote:

Posted earlier:

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips

...we don't have the exact location of the where the vehicle was located. Apparently the scene and surrounding area was searched and nothing was found.

lizard lips - 3-22-2014 at 10:18 PM

Janene-This thread is not about semantics. If you need to ask rts something please use u2u. I don't want to get the thread caught up with useless posts. Please…..

EnsenadaDr - 3-22-2014 at 10:30 PM

I agree Dan. Then likewise RTS should not use this thread to insult me and call me Ense NADA. My thoughts are these: The family was called and told Gary's car was found. They come all the way down to Baja, and then are sent home until the police are good and ready to let them search for him and not give them any specifics? This seems apparent to me that they sent the family on a wild goose chase, and for what? Can't they point them into the general direction so they can do a search?

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
Janene-This thread is not about semantics. If you med to ask rts something please use u2u. I don't want to get the thread caught up with useless posts. Please…..

EnsenadaDr - 3-22-2014 at 10:34 PM

How was the Danielle Van Dam case solved? They had cell tower records of David Westerfield driving along the road to Sycuan so some volunteers combed the area and found her mummified body. The police didn't tell everyone to steer clear, and wait for the OK. I know we are talking about two different countries here, but what's wrong with getting a search going?

Mulegena - 3-22-2014 at 10:57 PM

Whatever happens regarding this case is determined by the family, not us. I'm prepared to help in any way I am capable if and when asked by the family or a representative and have made that known to them. Until then, I wait and respectfully keep my ideas to myself.

EnsenadaDr - 3-22-2014 at 11:22 PM

I am sorry I just hate to see the family's strings being pulled any further. I am frankly shocked that the Mexican police didn't lay out the whole and complete scenario after they traveled all the way down to Catavina. Not entirely shocked but why give them only part of the puzzle and make them wait? And then have them come all the way back down again? I'm sorry but I can't sit back and just watch this terrible injustice quietly.

tripledigitken - 3-23-2014 at 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
....... I'm sorry but I can't sit back and just watch this terrible injustice quietly.

For the families sake why not give it a try?

Bubba - 3-23-2014 at 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lizard lips
Janene-This thread is not about semantics. If you need to ask rts something please use u2u. I don't want to get the thread caught up with useless posts. Please…..

Thank you.

wilderone - 3-23-2014 at 07:11 AM

"...the Mexican police didn't lay out the whole and complete scenario?
I'm thinking maybe there are facets to the region's crime and politics that the police are considering. They may know of other forces such as drug smuggling, resident cartel members, local thugs and crime rings; and reporting protocol by superiors, initial contacts to people who might have seen something; the fact this is an American citizen. The situation may not be as simple as it appears.
Hang in there Patton family.

mtgoat666 - 3-23-2014 at 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
"...the Mexican police didn't lay out the whole and complete scenario?
I'm thinking maybe there are facets to the region's crime and politics that the police are considering. They may know of other forces such as drug smuggling, resident cartel members, local thugs and crime rings; and reporting protocol by superiors, initial contacts to people who might have seen something; the fact this is an American citizen. The situation may not be as simple as it appears.
Hang in there Patton family.

Are you suggesting it was murder? Probably need to find the body before leaping to that conclusion.

P.S. the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

wilderone - 3-23-2014 at 07:45 AM

I'm not suggesting nor concluding anything. A thorough, professional investigation, and the local knowledge of the police, in their jurisdiction, with their resources, should be allowed to happen, within the parameters of a wide perspective.

absinvestor - 3-23-2014 at 09:11 AM

I agree with lizardlips, wilderone and mulegena. The family and the police need space and time. Sometimes we think of the Mexican police as the guy that pulled us over looking for a moridida. In fact at some level they can be very efficient. When lizardlips and the family ask for assistance I'm sure many Nomads will be available- until that time all we can do is hope/pray for the family.

DENNIS - 3-23-2014 at 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
In fact at some level they can be very efficient.

I can remember when the Judicial Police wouldn't even come to your house to investigate a robbery unless you paid for their gas and lunch.
I wonder if they still do that? :lol:

EnsenadaDr - 3-23-2014 at 09:29 AM

I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting to disregard the family's decision and go over their heads and act independently. However as Goat said, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Don't you feel enough time has elapsed? Time is of the essence here. I would be pressing the Mexican police for more information and more specifics is all I am saying. Or like Dennis suggested, a mordida might be in order. Anything to speed this thing along. The more time that elapses the less clues might be uncovered as to where Gary is.

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
I agree with lizardlips, wilderone and mulegena. The family and the police need space and time. Sometimes we think of the Mexican police as the guy that pulled us over looking for a moridida. In fact at some level they can be very efficient. When lizardlips and the family ask for assistance I'm sure many Nomads will be available- until that time all we can do is hope/pray for the family.

DianaT - 3-23-2014 at 09:35 AM

Quote:

Amen --- until help is requested, all the speculation, criticism, advice, etc. is not helpful.

DENNIS - 3-23-2014 at 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DianaT

Amen --- until help is requested, all the speculation, criticism, advice, etc. is not helpful.

Total nonsense. This board is designed for discussion and nothing that is allowed through the gates is sacrosanct or immune from speculation and comparison.
If low key is what people want,...perhaps there shouldn't be so many objections to others' ideas.
And....if secrecy is the goal....don't bring the issue here to begin with.

absinvestor - 3-23-2014 at 10:05 AM

Dennis- I don't know about the gas and lunch- I only have very limited data but in the mid 90's when we lived in Punta Banda a neighbor had a compressor and some tools stolen from his garage- the police came out, took a report and within 2 days his items were returned. A local teenager had stolen them and it seems to me like the police let his grandma handle the punishment. As I recall the teenager would have sooner dealt with the police. My only other data is about 2 years ago an ATV was stolen in the middle of the night from an American who lived near the lighthouse in Mulege. That ATV was recovered about a week later. We left the area shortly thereafter and never heard if the thief was caught but I do know that the police talked to everyone in the immediate area looking for clues. My only other thought is the Patton's Congressman apparently did something. It seems that an inquiry from a Congressman will generate a greater sense of urgency- tal vez si y tal vez no.

DENNIS - 3-23-2014 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by absinvestor
My only other thought is the Patton's Congressman apparently did something.

I quietly questioned his involvement from the beginning. It's doubtful he went to SQ in an official capacity. It just wouldn't happen without embassies being involved. More likely he went to fish. That also may explain the four month delay with his reply.

Forensics take time

Whale-ista - 3-23-2014 at 12:13 PM

My sympathies and prayers to the Patton family as they wait for more information. I hope their patience results in more answers being made available to them, whatever the final outcome.

I can understand the need for local LEOs to to take enough time to do their work before returning the car and its contents to the family. It needs to receive a thorough inspection.

There are many things for the investigators to consider as they inspect the car including mileage on recovered vehicle, how much gas in tank, receipts from stores, Pemex etc. All of these need to be looked over for additional clues about Gary's possible whereabouts and activities, and also to identify or rule out other people who may have been traveling with him.

I believe Gary was reported last seen at Jardines hotel, so the mileage on his car would indicate if he went straight to this location or if the car was driven elsewhere before arriving where it was found.

When I was at Jardines last month they had excellent security cameras and nighttime guards walking the grounds. Perhaps they can review the records for additional Information?

As for a US Rep. being involved: it was local horsemen who came across the vehicle. I've seen no mention of this being part of an organized search- it was just a fortunate route that took the riders close to the car.

[Edited on 3-23-2014 by Whale-ista]

DENNIS - 3-23-2014 at 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whale-ista
I believe Gary was reported last seen at Jardines hotel, so the mileage on his car would indicate if he went straight to this location or if the car was driven elsewhere before arriving where it was found.

Wouldn't they have to have beginning mileage to determine something? It's probable they don't.
Something else.........Mexico is a few clicks behind US style CSI and most likely won't have all of today's methods of investigation at their disposal. Short of evidence of foul play, their investigation will be cursory at best.

Whale-ista - 3-23-2014 at 01:50 PM

good point re:mileage.

gas/food receipts could still be helpful for establishing timelines.

Do any of the newer Pemex stations have security cameras? How about the Oxxos?

DENNIS - 3-23-2014 at 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whale-ista

Do any of the newer Pemex stations have security cameras? How about the Oxxos?

Good question. Some OXXOs have an ATM so perhaps yes.

Whale-ista - 3-23-2014 at 02:14 PM

I hope the family and investigators gets some solid Information now that the car has been located.

This has been such a mystery for so long, and has captured my attention. Maybe also because I often travel solo in Baja, and don't want to put my friends/family thru a similar mystery if anything were to happen to me along the way.

So I'm thinking: how could someone leave "breadcrumbs" besides the "usual" way of checking in each day via text, phone etc.?

Nomads often discuss the need to keep the gas tank full, esp between El Rosario and points south, near where Gary's car was located.

So potentially one way of solving some of this puzzle: If his car had X amount of gas, and was Y number of miles from the last place someone could have purchased gas, perhaps someone could estimate mileage and get (approx) # of miles from last place gas was purchased, then talk to the roadside vendors in Catavina, fishermen, Pemex nearest that area.

A cautionary tale, for sure...

absinvestor - 3-23-2014 at 02:16 PM

The only reason I mentioned the Congressman is that an inquiry from him might require a response and possibly a more serious investigation. I don't know if it makes a difference. What I do know is the when I lived in Punta Banda in the early 90's I received a refund check from the IRS that was forwarded from my last US address. (Don't ask me how that happened since it had been years before and never since that I received a refund vs always owing additional.) The check was just forwarded as normal email (ie not registered) but it was obvious that it contained a check. When the envelope arrived the Mexican post office required that I sign for it and there were at least 6 other signatures from various locations that the envelope had traveled to in Mexico. Again that envelope was sent by regular mail but it was obvious that Mexico put some special emphasis on the fact that it was coming from our Government. Maybe things have changed??

Paulina - 3-23-2014 at 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whale-ista
.... Maybe also because I often travel solo in Baja, and don't want to put my friends/family thru a similar mystery if anything were to happen to me along the way.

So I'm thinking: how could someone leave "breadcrumbs" besides the "usual" way of checking in each day via text, phone etc.?

A quick answer to your question, I keep a journal when we travel, in case of emergency/accident. For example, when I leave our place in Punta Banda I write down the date, time. I note every fuel stop, location, odometer reading. Potty stop, location and time, meal stops, etc. all the way to our final destination. Should something happen to us, our journal will tell our story.

Wishing the Patton family a sense of peace. I have a lot more to add, but holding my tongue (fingers).

P>*)))>{

Whale-ista - 3-23-2014 at 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulina

Quote:

Thanks Paulina- good advice, and a reminder that I need to add "Emergency contacts" to my written log as well.

I currently keep a travel log (gas & meal stops, repairs etc), and could add details that might be useful if a similar situation happened.

One other thing that's good to put in your cellphone is an entry for ICE (In Case of Emergency) number that medical/emergency responders could quickly access. Obviously, make it for someone you are not traveling with.

TMW - 3-23-2014 at 05:33 PM

Get a Spot and send a signal at regular times. At least they could go from your last signal. And if an emergency you can send a need help or an SOS signal.

Sweetwater - 3-23-2014 at 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Get a Spot and send a signal at regular times. At least they could go from your last signal. And if an emergency you can send a need help or an SOS signal.

SPOT is a satellite tracker that sends out location data and can send out other signals as well. There are now several generations of them available and most of the offroad community is aware of their capabilities and use them. In my dualsport travels, I've started carrying my own although I used to rely on another in the group for their shared site. After a few episodes of being separated, I realized I needed my own. I'd encourage anyone who explores the back country of anywhere to get one and use it. It's kind of cool to watch your friends find new places and have the opportunity to plan trips to those same areas.

Larana - 3-23-2014 at 08:20 PM

I certainly agree with the use of Spot. Have been using it for a few years now, for offroad exploring and also travels in our RV. I hit the Spot every night when we are RV ing and keep my family and friends aware of our location. A reasonable price for a lot of peace of mind.

Floatflyer - 3-24-2014 at 07:37 AM

The Spot does seem like a good hedge against going missing and nobody being able to locate you. I'll bet there are a few people thinking the missing Malaysian airliner should have had one!!

The Malaysian government hasn't given any indication that they could find their "burro" with both hands!!

[Edited on 3-24-2014 by Floatflyer]

DENNIS - 3-24-2014 at 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Floatflyer
The Spot does seem like a good hedge against going missing and nobody being able to locate you. I'll bet there are a few people thinking the missing Malaysian airliner should have had one!!

They may have found what's left of it in the Indian Ocean....sez Malaysian PM.

LancairDriver - 3-24-2014 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Exactly what I have been thinking from the start. Millions of dollars expended searching for want of a few hundred bucks for a Spot tracker that would trump the millions of dollars in avionics on board the 777. Spot or equivalent should be mandatory equipment for the hikers and mountain climbers requiring risky and expensive search and rescues on a regular basis. Spot has been particularly useful in tracking the position of various Nomad adventures as we have seen.

rts551 - 3-24-2014 at 08:40 AM

There were trackers on board. Much more sophisticated than spot. All off for whatever reason. Has there been problems with Spot before? Just follow the Baja 1000 or day to day tracking of one of our travelers. While helpful, Spot is not the answer to everything.

Hope we get news soon from the family or Lizard Lips.

CaboMagic - 3-24-2014 at 09:11 AM

Continuing to offer our support.. and echoing the sentiments expressed by many.
Disappearing loved ones is a complicated issue to deal with on many levels.

LancairDriver - 3-24-2014 at 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
There were trackers on board. Much more sophisticated than spot. All off for whatever reason. Has there been problems with Spot before? Just follow the Baja 1000 or day to day tracking of one of our travelers. While helpful, Spot is not the answer to everything.

Hope we get news soon from the family or Lizard Lips.

Much more sophisticated than Spot, but obviously didn't work, due probably to a common power source, either able to be manually turned off or put offline by a central power failure. My Spot Tracker has operated flawlessly in my aircraft and RV for over a year on two lithium AA batteries. A Spot in a passengers purse or better yet imbedded in an inaccessible part of the aircraft would have prevented the entire confusion and wasted search efforts as well as family members stress.
The search area certainly would have been narrowed considerably by a Spot Tracker.

lizard lips - 3-24-2014 at 10:37 AM

Love my Spot even though I haven't used it recently.

I had work in Jordan and had it on when I traveled from Amman up to the Syrian border. It worked great in Haiti, Kyrgyzstan, and all over India and Sri Lanka.

I have a trip planned next month to Bulgaria and plan to reinstate my use.

This is a necessity when traveling in fact I'm tracking a friend right now with his family south to GN.

LancairDriver - 3-24-2014 at 11:05 AM

20/20 hindsight is always great, but I wish Gary Patton would have had a Spot tracker. The outcome could have been considerably different. Hopefully incidents like this, as well as with the Italian biker who went missing near Catavina, will bring more attention to the importance of this very affordable technology. On my last trip, my designated spot followers commented on what a nice camping spot I had on the beach on conception bay after looking at my location on google earth.

24baja - 3-24-2014 at 03:26 PM

Hijack of thread? Come on people! Shoulda woulda coulda. Think of the family.

motoged - 3-24-2014 at 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 24baja
Hijack of thread? Come on people! Shoulda woulda coulda. Think of the family.

Thank you, 24baja.... :saint:

The ideas floating around are of little value to the family....and have been covered ad nauseum on other posts for traveller info.

Folks, respect this family's wishes as stated....they will ask for help when they are ready to use it.

Just because this is supposed to be a discussion forum doesn't really justify insensitive or off-topic discussion....in my opinion.

DENNIS - 3-24-2014 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by motoged

Just because this is supposed to be a discussion forum doesn't really justify insensitive or off-topic discussion....in my opinion.

Just consider it chatting during intermission. :biggrin:

Marla Daily - 3-25-2014 at 06:32 AM

Gary's car was found 3/20/2014. Family members have come and gone to Catavina. So what now?

Is there an "investigation" taking place?
Is anyone searching?
Closure for the family would be a good thing.

[Edited on 3-25-2014 by Marla Daily]

SoCalPattonCrew - 3-26-2014 at 03:06 PM

I have made calls yesterday and today to my contacts, asking for status on the investigation:

- We have to wait for them to 'conclude' their investigation before we can pick up the vehicle;
- We also have to wait for their conclusion and description to know where the vehicle was found, with more precision than a 40 mile stretch of dirt road;
- And, we do not know if there is any kind of organized search being done, this was not made clear.

I prefer to think that the police are searching in their own way, and want this resolved with minimal intervention by the family, because they do not need folks in any further endangerment in their town. I am sure the police became very aware of how much how guys wanted to go to the site, and personally I am grateful that they withheld that information for now, but I have to believe it is because they are out there searching. At some point, they'll get pressure from us, but we were asked to give them some time. And, yes, it's hard, but after all this time, it's not cruel or unfair on their part to be ultra-considerate of our guys safety.

We still pray with hope, and if anyone reports anything at all, any call back to me, I'll let you know asap.
And we so appreciate the kind words and willingness of the nomads to jump in and help -- you're all a God-send.

apple - 3-26-2014 at 03:09 PM

Any idea if the vehicle is running? Or what condition it is in?

Our thoughts are with your family

EnsenadaDr - 3-26-2014 at 04:00 PM

Thanks for the update, Family. I am for one behind you 100% though I tend to get quite zealous in my ideas at times. Sounds like you are taking the right steps.

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
I have made calls yesterday and today to my contacts, asking for status on the investigation:

- We have to wait for them to 'conclude' their investigation before we can pick up the vehicle;
- We also have to wait for their conclusion and description to know where the vehicle was found, with more precision than a 40 mile stretch of dirt road;
- And, we do not know if there is any kind of organized search being done, this was not made clear.

I prefer to think that the police are searching in their own way, and want this resolved with minimal intervention by the family, because they do not need folks in any further endangerment in their town. I am sure the police became very aware of how much how guys wanted to go to the site, and personally I am grateful that they withheld that information for now, but I have to believe it is because they are out there searching. At some point, they'll get pressure from us, but we were asked to give them some time. And, yes, it's hard, but after all this time, it's not cruel or unfair on their part to be ultra-considerate of our guys safety.

We still pray with hope, and if anyone reports anything at all, any call back to me, I'll let you know asap.
And we so appreciate the kind words and willingness of the nomads to jump in and help -- you're all a God-send.

DENNIS - 3-26-2014 at 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew

- We have to wait for them to 'conclude' their investigation before we can pick up the vehicle;

Reminds me of a story. Years back I had a Mexican buddy here who had his house robbed. He reported it to the police and they caught the culprits with my friend's property...the most cherished item being a cassette player.
He went to the station to identify his property asking the police if he could take it with him.
"No," they said...."we have to keep it for evidence."

"For how long?"...asked my buddy.

"Forever," was their answer. :lol:

SoCalPattonCrew - 3-26-2014 at 06:33 PM

Car has no obvious body damage. Our guys couldn't turn on the car so no telling as yet about running condition. Tires need air, don't appear to be damaged, again, all these things still need to be verified. The engine was very dusty, and Interior items appeared undisturbed, but a thorough check as to receipts and other items could not be done, so many details not covered may still offer clues.
Mileage was where it should be, nothing surprising there. Nothing is calling out to us, just still missing him.

Whale-ista - 3-26-2014 at 06:50 PM

Thank you for the update. Hope you are closer to some answers.

EnsenadaDr - 3-26-2014 at 07:07 PM

I agree with Dennis in a way, especially when it comes to the Mexican police. In the words of the great late Ronald Reagan, "Trust but verify."

mtgoat666 - 3-26-2014 at 07:33 PM

Bureaucracies specialize in burying problems through neglect. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

EnsenadaDr - 3-27-2014 at 08:09 AM

When you say "our guys" does that mean no one in the family went down to Baja? If no one was there that was an actual family member the Mexican police will be less likely to cooperate if at all.

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCalPattonCrew
Car has no obvious body damage. Our guys couldn't turn on the car so no telling as yet about running condition. Tires need air, don't appear to be damaged, again, all these things still need to be verified. The engine was very dusty, and Interior items appeared undisturbed, but a thorough check as to receipts and other items could not be done, so many details not covered may still offer clues.
Mileage was where it should be, nothing surprising there. Nothing is calling out to us, just still missing him.

[Edited on 3-27-2014 by EnsenadaDr]

SoCalPattonCrew - 3-27-2014 at 08:46 AM

Yes, our family did meet with the Catavina Police officers for the vehicle inspection at their headquarters. We were only able to take photographs and were not permitted to enter the interior of the vehicle. The Police had towed Gary's vehicle to their Police department.

EnsenadaDr - 3-27-2014 at 09:02 AM

Ok cool. So you were referring to your family when you said our guys. I misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification.

willardguy - 3-27-2014 at 09:19 AM

so at this juncture its not clear if the 4runner had mechanical issues or simply got stuck, sending gary off for help?

EnsenadaDr - 3-27-2014 at 09:37 AM

Well it's understandable that they might want to keep the car indefinitely for evidence in a missing person's case.

SoCalPattonCrew - 3-27-2014 at 04:45 PM

Question Nomads: 1. Are any of you nomads familiar with any road that is south of Catavina heading west toward the ocean that leads to the FISH CAMP as labeled on DavidK's map, see pg. 39? That is, south of Catavina but north of El Pedregoso on DavidK's map? I notice also that elevation becomes an issue when traveling toward the ocean south of Catavina.
2. Also, are there surf spots then at the FISH Camp? Are there others nearby just south of there?
3. Are any of you nomads within 5 hours of this area? It is so very remote, and a ranch maybe nearby but no cell sites anywhere.
To help replies, I numbered the questions -- Thanks, all

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