BajaNomad

2024 Trail of Missions show

David K - 7-30-2024 at 09:03 AM

The show aired on ESPN yesterday and now can be watched on YouTube.
This year, Cameron returned to some of the locations we had scouted out in 2019: Mission Guadalupe (west of Mulegé), San Borjitas painted cave, the Visita de San Pablo, etc.
For the second year, the vehicles were Can-Am side-by-sides. Sara Price (of Dakar fame) was along with this group.

See the missions of San Ignacio, Guadalupe, Mulegé, San José de Comondú, Loreto, and San Javier. La Purísima mission was mentioned as they passed El Pilón and a stop at El Horno lime kiln, too.

2024 Trail of Missions Show

towntaco - 7-30-2024 at 10:45 AM

I was happy to see it pop up in my feed, will watch later this week.

mtgoat666 - 7-30-2024 at 04:16 PM

I guess those guy don't take to the “tread lightly” ethos of responsible offroaders, eh?

David K - 7-31-2024 at 10:36 AM

They do enjoy splashing in the arroyo water when a road crosses one. When I traveled with Cameron's group, the film crew liked the splash scenes.

4x4abc - 7-31-2024 at 10:54 AM

like all good invaders - you just trample through it

they did not get a single one of the local names right

Baja has no defense - so you exploit it for your own gains

a disgusting show of ignorance

mtgoat666 - 7-31-2024 at 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
They do enjoy splashing in the arroyo water when a road crosses one. When I traveled with Cameron's group, the film crew liked the splash scenes.


What are they, screenagers?
People that that travel with focus on doing facebook and YouTube vids are twits.

David K - 7-31-2024 at 11:58 AM

I think Cameron intentionally goofs up names in an attempt to keep it secret? In 2019, he spelled San Pablo correctly. I also sent him how to say guéribo correctly a few weeks ago when he asked me the name of that tree.. oh well, as they say, if you can do it better, do it!

Just enjoy the sites even if the spelling or pronunciation makes you cringe... as it does for me!

4x4abc - 7-31-2024 at 07:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I think Cameron intentionally goofs up names in an attempt to keep it secret? In 2019, he spelled San Pablo correctly. I also sent him how to say guéribo correctly a few weeks ago when he asked me the name of that tree.. oh well, as they say, if you can do it better, do it!

Just enjoy the sites even if the spelling or pronunciation makes you cringe... as it does for me!


Visita Paublo in big letters on the screen


[Edited on 8-1-2024 by 4x4abc]

Paublo.jpg - 197kB

pacificobob - 8-1-2024 at 09:53 AM

Interested in the place.... Not so much the language. That says something.

David K - 8-1-2024 at 10:43 AM

See when Cameron and I first went there, in 2019 (and it is spelled correctly, lol): https://youtu.be/WmZxWMsjsBU?si=t2EA8rFu7FyTN9W9
At Minute 6:14 we arrive and I describe what it was.

[Edited on 8-1-2024 by David K]

Ken Cooke - 10-4-2024 at 01:10 PM

Use of firearms, corporal punishment in the form of whippings and religious ritual and psychological punishments were all methods employed by the missionaries to maintain and expand control.

There were instances of armed resistance by the Indians against the missions, notably the Pericue revolt of 1734-1737, and Indians at the missions frequently ran away to escape the religious and labor regime forced on them by the missionaries or sabotaged the missionary's efforts by passive resistance.

At the time of first contact with the Spanish, the Native Americans living in Baja California may have numbered as many as 60,000. By 1762, their numbers had fallen to 21,000 and by 1800 to 5,900. The primary reason for the decline was recurrent epidemics of European diseases, primarily smallpox, measles, and typhus.

Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_missions_in_Baja_Cal...

David K - 10-5-2024 at 09:26 AM

Ken, it has become a popular idea that the Natives were enslaved and beaten by the padres and soldiers. Evidence (documentation) however is not so convincing. The Pericú Revolt was not a result of that, either. It is also not totally enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards.

The Jesuits never forced or imprisoned the Natives. What changed was after the Spanish government took over the California mission program from the Jesuits (who had control over the soldiers to protect the Natives from cruelty). The Jesuits learned the Native languages and respected their territorial homelands. You can see this on the 1757 maps listing the Native lands by name.

The government officials made it clear in 1768+ that the land was the King's and that all who lived on it were subjects of the King... to do 'his' bidding. They had the Franciscans take over California missions but controlled what missions stayed open and where the Natives could live.

Within months of the Franciscans arrival (April 1768), the Spanish governor ordered two missions closed (Dolores and San Luis Gonzaga) and the Natives were forced to move from their homeland to Todos Santos where the governor thought more food could be produced. The move was disastrous and most perished.

Be angry if you like, but be angry at government who ended the Jesuits mission program and made new, harsher rules for the Franciscans and Dominicans to use. Of interest, Franciscan Junípero Serra was so enraged by the soldiers treatment of Natives (in Alta California), that he traveled to Mexico City to get the government to do something. At Monterey, he moved the mission to Carmel, just to get the Natives away from the soldiers who were stationed at the Monterey Presidio.

Sad that one of the good padres, Serra, has been so vilified by those uneducated in the facts in recent years.

Ken Cooke - 10-6-2024 at 08:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Ken, it has become a popular idea that the Natives were enslaved and beaten by the padres and soldiers. Evidence (documentation) however is not so convincing. The Pericú Revolt was not a result of that, either. It is also not totally enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards.


My Great Grandfather was enslaved most of his life. My Father (RIP) interviewed him and used their documented conversations for interactive discussions at Churches, Community Centers, and Schools. So, you feel it is not enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards?

North Carolina Republican Gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson actually approaches slavery through a similar lens. Your opinion is completely invalid.

David K - 10-7-2024 at 07:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Ken, it has become a popular idea that the Natives were enslaved and beaten by the padres and soldiers. Evidence (documentation) however is not so convincing. The Pericú Revolt was not a result of that, either. It is also not totally enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards.


My Great Grandfather was enslaved most of his life. My Father (RIP) interviewed him and used their documented conversations for interactive discussions at Churches, Community Centers, and Schools. So, you feel it is not enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards?

North Carolina Republican Gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson actually approaches slavery through a similar lens. Your opinion is completely invalid.


Ken, I am not expressing an opinion. I am sharing the fact that there is no documentation or evidence of that in Baja California, especially during the Jesuit period before Spain's takeover, which was well documented. This thread is about a TV show and off-roaders visiting some sites in the southern half of the peninsula. It is not a historic discussion of slavery. My opinion is slavery is wrong and should be ended everywhere, like the events of the 1860s that ended it.

Tioloco - 10-7-2024 at 07:44 AM

Back on topic,

It is always interesting to see the missions and admire the craftsmanship. Hard to imagine being able to build those in such remote locations without modern machinery. Fascinating really.

mtgoat666 - 10-7-2024 at 12:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Ken, it has become a popular idea that the Natives were enslaved and beaten by the padres and soldiers. Evidence (documentation) however is not so convincing. The Pericú Revolt was not a result of that, either. It is also not totally enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards.


My Great Grandfather was enslaved most of his life. My Father (RIP) interviewed him and used their documented conversations for interactive discussions at Churches, Community Centers, and Schools. So, you feel it is not enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards?

North Carolina Republican Gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson actually approaches slavery through a similar lens. Your opinion is completely invalid.


Ken, I am not expressing an opinion. I am sharing the fact that there is no documentation or evidence of that in Baja California, especially during the Jesuit period before Spain's takeover, which was well documented. This thread is about a TV show and off-roaders visiting some sites in the southern half of the peninsula. It is not a historic discussion of slavery. My opinion is slavery is wrong and should be ended everywhere, like the events of the 1860s that ended it.


Dk,
The church waged cultural genocide on the natives. And in many cases enslaved or indentured natives. Tourist visitors to the missions should know the whole truth.

David K - 10-7-2024 at 01:32 PM

The church did no such thing. Native deaths were an accidental result from the introduction of diseases to which the locals had little or no resistance to. These introductions began before the missionaries arrived.

Once a treatment or cure was developed, it was then used to treat the Natives as documented at Mission San Ignacio during the Dominican period. The missions were there to convert and instruct the Natives and to increase the numbers who joined the mission. Deaths of the mission church members was the very opposite of the padres' intentions. They did all they knew how to prevent these deaths and stop women from aborting their pregnancies (a common practice when times were tough).

pacificobob - 10-7-2024 at 10:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by David K  
I think Cameron intentionally goofs up names in an attempt to keep it secret? In 2019, he spelled San Pablo correctly. I also sent him how to say guéribo correctly a few weeks ago when he asked me the name of that tree.. oh well, as they say, if you can do it better, do it!

Just enjoy the sites even if the spelling or pronunciation makes you cringe... as it does for me!


My money is that ignorance is the cause of the mispronounced words.

pacificobob - 10-7-2024 at 10:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Back on topic,

It is always interesting to see the missions and admire the craftsmanship. Hard to imagine being able to build those in such remote locations without modern machinery. Fascinating really.


So much can be accomplished with slave labor!

Tioloco - 10-7-2024 at 11:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob  
Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  
Back on topic,

It is always interesting to see the missions and admire the craftsmanship. Hard to imagine being able to build those in such remote locations without modern machinery. Fascinating really.


So much can be accomplished with slave labor!


No evidence of that. But you are free to think whatever you wish.

The temples on the mainland are equally impressive.

[Edited on 10-8-2024 by Tioloco]

pacificobob - 10-8-2024 at 12:34 AM

I somehow doubt the natives volunteered their labor in order to gain entry to the Christian heaven. Perhaps it was the generous wages offered by the kindly Padres?

David K - 10-8-2024 at 09:07 AM

If you read, you can learn.
My book gives a slightly-condensed history in order to talk about all 27 missions with their who, what, when, where, and why (plus how) data. For those who want to dig deeper, I provide a very complete reference list. See my pages 217 to 220.
I also show the covers of my book collection (see History Books) on this page: https://vivabaja.com/baja-books/

Ken Cooke - 11-19-2024 at 10:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke  
Quote: Originally posted by David K  
Ken, it has become a popular idea that the Natives were enslaved and beaten by the padres and soldiers. Evidence (documentation) however is not so convincing. The Pericú Revolt was not a result of that, either. It is also not totally enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards.


My Great Grandfather was enslaved most of his life. My Father (RIP) interviewed him and used their documented conversations for interactive discussions at Churches, Community Centers, and Schools. So, you feel it is not enlightening to judge activities in the 1700s by today's standards?

North Carolina Republican Gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson actually approaches slavery through a similar lens. Your opinion is completely invalid.


Ken, I am not expressing an opinion. I am sharing the fact that there is no documentation or evidence of that in Baja California, especially during the Jesuit period before Spain's takeover, which was well documented. This thread is about a TV show and off-roaders visiting some sites in the southern half of the peninsula. It is not a historic discussion of slavery. My opinion is slavery is wrong and should be ended everywhere, like the events of the 1860s that ended it.


Dk,
The church waged cultural genocide on the natives. And in many cases enslaved or indentured natives. Tourist visitors to the missions should know the whole truth.


I watched the 2023 Trail of Missions last Friday evening between SCORE Baja 1000 live footage transmissions and I found the video very entertaining and well-produced. But the brief narration about the origins of Misión San Borja were cheerful at best, and historically illiterate (on the part of caretaker 'Angel') at worst. Otherwise, it was ab-tchen stoke of a show.
Next on my list of viewing will be the 2024 edition of 'Trail of Missions'.

[Edited on 11-19-2024 by Ken Cooke]

David K - 11-19-2024 at 02:02 PM

Hi Ken, they are meant to show fun, indeed... maybe to entice new visitors to see these grand artifacts. Not so much to teach history.
The 2024 episode is more of a Can Am ad than a mission trip. The Rip to Cabo TV show was on a day or two ago. It was well done.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and the Mrs!

Ken Cooke - 11-19-2024 at 09:49 PM

I will take a look at both programs. I'm not celebrating No-Thanksgiving 2024. But I will have a nice rest of the month, Christmas and soon after 15th Anniversary with Leidys 2 days later. Time flies!

David K - 11-20-2024 at 07:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ken Cooke  
I will take a look at both programs. I'm not celebrating No-Thanksgiving 2024. But I will have a nice rest of the month, Christmas and soon after 15th Anniversary with Leidys 2 days later. Time flies!


Indeed!
Who can forget when you took her to Shell Island for the first time?
Your efforts to make her a great Columbian/ French-pressed coffee on the camp stove were commendable!
Beach Campfire times are always great...