BajaNomad - VISA vs FMM - Powered by XMB

Slight correction- an FMM isn't synonymous with "tourist visa", it's a migratory document that all but Mexican citizens have to fill out when crossing by land. Residents have to fill them out, so calling it a tourist visa is a misnomer.
The part they give back to you as a tourist serves as a tourist visa.

It may seem like a nit-picky thing, but it's important for temporary or permanent residents to understand- when filling out the FMM, you have to make sure that they mark it with the appropriate residency status. If they check you in as a tourist, you automatically forfeit your residency status and have to reapply, starting the residency process from scratch. Also no part of the FMM form is handed back to residents.

if you are a temporary or permanent resident why would you be getting an FMM?

4x4abc - 3-8-2025 at 02:55 PM

lets expand this
lets say you have temp or perm residency
you drive in and no FMM is required of you
so far so good
now, if you have fly out one day, what steps do you have to take before you do?
since you have neither the stub of the FMM nor the new ticket version, you have nothing to show when you leave the country

SFandH - 3-8-2025 at 04:33 PM

lets expand this
lets say you have temp or perm residency
you drive in and no FMM is required of you
so far so good
now, if you have fly out one day, what steps do you have to take before you do?
since you have neither the stub of the FMM nor the new ticket version, you have nothing to show when you leave the country

"you have nothing to show when you leave the country"

Show to who?

Why wouldn't your resident card work if you're talking about a Mexican official?

[Edited on 3-8-2025 by SFandH]

surabi - 3-8-2025 at 06:39 PM

Quote: Originally posted by latitude32

if you are a temporary or permanent resident why would you be getting an FMM?

It seems you didn't comprehend anything I wrote. If you are a resident, you don't "get" an FMM. An "FMM" is not a tourist visa- it is a migratory form that everyone but citizens have to fill out when crossing by land. If you are a tourist, immigration hands you back the bottom half of the form, which serves as your tourist visa. If you are a resident, the form is only used for statistical purposes and you don't get anything back.

surabi - 3-8-2025 at 06:52 PM

If you fly out, you just go to the immigration window at the airport, present your passport and residency card, and your boarding pass, and they stamp your passport with exit date.

When they used to use the FMM forms at the airports, it worked the opposite for residents than for tourists- you filled out the FMM form when leaving the country, they gave you back the small part to keep with you when out of the country, then you turned that in when flying back in. Residents didn't have any part of the FMM form while in Mexico.

pacificobob - 3-9-2025 at 07:39 AM

We both hold PR cards. When traveling abroad, we have never done any of the above. I traveled to Guatemala in February. No forms of any type. Same with travel to the US.

surabi - 3-9-2025 at 09:54 AM

There are no forms anymore when flying. Not even for tourists- they just stamp passports now.

If driving, although no one forces you to stop or fill out an FMM form, as a PR, I figure it's a good idea- you never know when Mexico might make some changes and want to see how much time you have spent in and out of the country. And if you ever want to apply for Mexican citizenship, that information is required.

4x4abc - 3-10-2025 at 04:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob

We both hold PR cards. When traveling abroad, we have never done any of the above. I traveled to Guatemala in February. No forms of any type. Same with travel to the US.

well, I asked because things are changing rapidly in Mexico plus I had a bad experience at one point flying out
I have a PR
at the time, few years back, the bottom part of the FMM was collected by the airline staff before bording
collected from everyone, including holders of PR
I ran to get one
not fast enough
the plane left without me

surabi - 3-10-2025 at 04:32 PM

4x4- Yes, that is exactly how it worked before they retired the FMM forms at the airports instead of just stamping passports as they do now.
Tourists handed in their tourist card when leaving, residents handed in the bottom half of the card (which wasn't a tourist card in that instance, but marked resident), but residents retained the larger part of the FMM form to hand back in on their return to Mexico. However, the immigration agents didn't seem to care if you lost that larger part before returning and just filled out a new one.

They may still, in some instances, use the FMM form at airports- someone I know recently was on a flight where everyone was given them to fill out because the immigration computer system had crashed.

But regardless of whether they are using the FMM forms, or just stamping passports on exit, you still have to go to the immigration kiosk before checking in for an exit flight. That has never varied.

Bummer that you weren't aware of that and missed your flight.

[Edited on 3-10-2025 by surabi]

chatolj - 3-10-2025 at 07:25 PM

the permit to visit a foreign country is called a visa
Mexico like most countries has various forms of it
the FMM is a tourist visa
even though many want to argue that it is not
but it is waht the Arizona station had in mind

do NOT follow their advice and get one online!
Too many fraudulent sites and even the legitimate ones can cause you headaches
like when your proposed day and time of entry do not match your actual entry time - the INM people might refuse to accept your pre paid paper
you'll have to pay again
sometimes they do not pre printed application period - legit or not
you'll pay again

so, save yourself from headaches and present your passport at the border and pay your fee - on you go
it is your responsibility to find the immigration guys at the border - they are not in your face like entering the US

do NOT skip getting the FMM!
Mexico has stepped up controls and you'll be in deep doodoo if you don't have the FMM
it is not a slap on the wrist and a small fine
those times are over
you go to jail for a week and be deported (your vehicle confiscated)

Please share the information, Re: Place, date, name (s) of the jailed, deported and confiscated vehicle for simply not having having a FMM. I know its the law and I personally always have one for myself and all occupants traveling with with me but why post some total BS as that.

mtgoat666 - 3-10-2025 at 07:33 PM

261 Americans deported from Mexico through Baja California in 2023
https://fox5sandiego.com/news/border-report/261-americans-de...

Leading countries of origin of returned foreign migrants in Mexico in 2023
https://www.statista.com/statistics/949708/number-returned-m...

4x4abc - 3-10-2025 at 08:57 PM

spare me the work - youtube is full of first hand reports

4x4abc - 3-10-2025 at 09:01 PM

not very kind of you to accuse us of spreading BS. I have not seen BS in this group when it comes to Baja information - ever.

surabi - 3-10-2025 at 09:03 PM

I know a couple of people who were jailed and deported for not being able to produce any documentation re permission to be in Mexico. One had a motorbike that was confiscated.
And no, I am not going to provide you with place, date and names- that would be a violation of those people's privacy.

And this was years ago. I would expect it to become more prevalent with the current US administration's anti-immigrant policies, including the US deporting legal immigrants.

[Edited on 3-11-2025 by surabi]

David K - 3-11-2025 at 07:54 AM

Wow... so much BS. GATO9632 is just confused about an FMM also being called a "visa" (by almost everyone).
Technically, a visa is for most overseas visitors to Mexico and an FMM (also called by some, a 'Tourist Permit') is for most North American and maybe a few other visitors. They are not the same and you don't need both if you are Canadian or American... just an FMM. A passport card or book is required to get it.

surabi - 3-11-2025 at 08:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Technically, a visa is for most overseas visitors to Mexico and an FMM (also called by some, a 'Tourist Permit') is for most North American and maybe a few other visitors.

Technically, David, an FMM is not a tourist permit. It is just a migratory form that the bottom half of serves as a tourist permit, but that is used to keep track of entries and exits of residents as well.
Just because Baja nomads insist on calling the part of the form they retain to prove their status while in Mexico "an FMM" does not mean that the form itself is synonymous with "tourist permit".

But yes, a tourist permit is not the same, in Mexico, as a visa, which is required for travelers from certain countries, or for those who will be conducting certain activities in Mexico other than tourism, has to be applied for and approved before coming to Mexico, and can't be obtained at the border.

mtgoat666 - 3-11-2025 at 08:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Wow... so much BS. GATO9632 is just confused about an FMM also being called a "visa" (by almost everyone).
Technically, a visa is for most overseas visitors to Mexico and an FMM (also called by some, a 'Tourist Permit') is for most North American and maybe a few other visitors. They are not the same and you don't need both if you are Canadian or American... just an FMM. A passport card or book is required to get it.

So much easier to call the fmm a ‘tourist visa.’

Common dictionary defn of visa:
“an endorsement issued by an authorized representative of a country and marked in a passport, permitting the passport holder to enter, travel through, or reside in that country for a specified amount of time, for the purpose of tourism, education, employment, etc.”

Fmm sure seems to be a visa!

surabi - 3-11-2025 at 09:41 AM

This article explains the difference between a tourist card and a visa as concerns Mexico.
https://visaguide.world/mexico-visa/tourist/#:~:text=However...

Of course, people are free to call things whatever they want.

BeachSeeker - 3-11-2025 at 11:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666

you go to jail for a week and be deported (your vehicle confiscated)

Come one, why spread rumors like this? I guarantee you cannot come up with one single example of someone getting jailed for a week and their vehicle permanently confiscated for ONLY not having an FMM. Yes you will get "deported". In other words, they'll make you turn around and go get one, or leave the country. They might try to get a fine out of you, in the form of cash USD straight into their hand.

Goat, all your links show is that a (small) number of Americans were deported from Baja in 2023. It says nothing more than that. When this happens, it's usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord (drive back North). They aren't taking all of their possessions, jailing them, then dumping them out on the North side of the border.

surabi - 3-11-2025 at 12:26 PM

When this happens, it's usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord (drive back North). They aren't taking all of their possessions, jailing them, then dumping them out on the North side of the border.

You call others' warnings BS, yet you are insisting that it's "usually just forcing them to leave the country of their own accord". So do you have some sort of proof that this is the case, or is this just your opinion presented as fact?

And "forced" and "of their own accord" are, by definition, mutually exclusive.

4x4abc - 3-11-2025 at 12:40 PM

looks like this group might not be for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1d2ubvWBkg&t=114s

BeachSeeker - 3-11-2025 at 02:08 PM

looks like this group might not be for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1d2ubvWBkg&t=114s

Haha, great, you found a video that hardly applies to what we are talking about and doesn't meet either of the criteria of my challenge.

Julian was in an INM detention center for only 6 days. Not quite jail, and not quite a week, but close. Also, he did not have a vehicle confiscated.

He overstayed his tourist visa. This guy's whole story is entirely different than what we are talking about. If this is the best you've got, then you should probably stop spreading rumors that are simply not true.

Don't try to gatekeep this group just because someone called you out on something that didn't happen.

edit: Removed incorrect info about Germans requiring tourist visa.

[Edited on 3-12-2025 by BeachSeeker]

BeachSeeker - 3-11-2025 at 02:13 PM

I'm not saying not to get an FMM. Absolutely get one. I always have a valid FMM when I'm in Baja. But you bet I'm 100% calling someone out when they spread fear and rumors without any proof.

surabi - 3-11-2025 at 03:55 PM

If you are from other than America or Canada, the whole process is entirely different and you need more than just an FMM.

You obviously didn't bother to read the FMM/visa article I posted. You are now posting BS incorrect info, just as you are accusing others of. That article has a list of countries that only require tourist cards. All of the EU countries, plus 39 other countries, including the US and Canada.
One should really do a bit of research before trying to sound knowledgeable.

BeachSeeker - 3-11-2025 at 05:36 PM

If you are from other than America or Canada, the whole process is entirely different and you need more than just an FMM.

My apologies, I was incorrect. Germany is one of the excluded countries.

However, you posted "BS" by saying it is the "Entire EU". The INM website states only those countries in the Schengen Area. So Cyprus for example, while being in the EU, does not qualify. So I guess we're all guilty of posting BS. The difference is whether we choose to double down on it, like Harald, or just admit our mistakes.

I stand by my claim that you cannot produce a verifiable example of someone in Baja getting jailed for a week and their vehicle permanently confiscated for ONLY not having an FMM.

[Edited on 3-12-2025 by BeachSeeker]

surabi - 3-11-2025 at 06:06 PM

You are really missing the point. Mexico doesn't have specific immigration rules concerning Baja travelers and valid tourist cards. They have rules about being able to produce proof of permission to be in Mexico, whether that is a residency card or a tourist card. And arguing about whether anyone not in possession of any of those documents has or will go to jail and been or will be deported and their vehicle confiscated is silly. Immigration officials can do whatever they want, within Mexican law, (and detaining you in jail, deporting you and confiscating your vehicle fall within that) to those who choose not to respect the law.

I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to believe that or not.

BeachSeeker - 3-12-2025 at 12:12 PM

I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to believe that or not.

Without any sort of proof, I choose not to believe your (at least) second hand account.

Here's why. How many people have you heard tell you that restaurants take stingray wings, cut them in circles, and sell them as scallops? It's ubiquitous at this point, with everyone having some version of this story. However, it is absolutely false. Stingray doesn't have the texture, color, or taste to fool a 2 year old into thinking its a scallop. How did this rumor get started? Well, someone heard from someone else that it happens. The story gets told enough that everyone just believes it to be true. No one who has ever actually eaten a stingray would ever say that there is any way it could be sold as a scallop. It's all second hand stories turned into urban legend.

I mean, is it possible to get jailed and your car stolen by the cops if you don't have an FMM, sure it is. It's also possible to be killed by cops for having a counterfeit $20 in the states, and I have verifiable proof that actually happened (George Floyd).

Now, if your goal is to scare people away from going to Baja, hell I get it. Part of me is happy that Baja has (an unfounded) reputation of being so unsafe that you shouldn't go there. Maybe you should post more rumors like that on iOverlander...

AKgringo - 3-12-2025 at 12:32 PM

I would tell you about my experience making "Scallops" out of a large ray I caught, but it has nothing to do with Visas or FMMs.

David K - 3-12-2025 at 02:01 PM

I told you I know someone who was caught without any immigration documentation, jailed and deported and her motorbike confiscated. You can choose to believe that or not.

I mean, is it possible to get jailed and your car stolen by the cops if you don't have an FMM, sure it is. It's also possible to be killed by cops for having a counterfeit $20 in the states, and I have verifiable proof that actually happened (George Floyd).

Now, if your goal is to scare people away from going to Baja, hell I get it. Part of me is happy that Baja has (an unfounded) reputation of being so unsafe that you shouldn't go there. Maybe you should post more rumors like that on iOverlander...

I think Mr. Floyd was not just using counterfeit money (why the store owner called the cops), but he was high on drugs and resisting arrest. So, let's include that tiny fact. No excuse for the brutal knee hold down that killed him but if he wasn't high and resisting, he would be alive.

cupcake - 3-12-2025 at 03:09 PM

I'm not saying not to get an FMM. Absolutely get one. I always have a valid FMM when I'm in Baja. But you bet I'm 100% calling someone out when they spread fear and rumors without any proof.

Around 2018 or 2019, when I was on the Lonely Planet Thorntree forum, before it closed permanently, there was a thread about an older woman from Canada who had driven her car to Mexico mainland. She had gotten all the paperwork, and an FMM online, but when she crossed into Mexico she was waved through by an ignorant border agent, instead of being told to park and have her FMM stamped in the office. A month later, when she was in southern Mexico, she was arrested for not having a valid FMM. She was taken to a detention center and this was reported in the news. Strangely, I cannot find this news report online now. I still have the Lonely Planet thread saved on a hard drive in storage. If I ever feel like digging it out I will post something more here.

Last I heard, the woman had been in detention for 10 days, had her car impounded (but maybe got it back later), and had spent a lot of money on an attorney to help her.

[Edited on 3-12-2025 by cupcake]

surabi - 3-12-2025 at 05:03 PM

Without any sort of proof, I choose not to believe your (at least) second hand account.

So even though I personally know the person it happened to and was around when it happened, you are calling me a liar. Because you are firmly convinced that no one has ever been detained, had their vehicle impounded, and been deported for not being able to produce any document giving them permission to be in Mexico.

Immigration agents have shown up several times over the years in my town on the mainland, setting up random checks of tourist visas, or going around town checking businesses to see if any of their employees are working without documentation and work permission. And taking those caught away to some sort of detention and deportation. I didn't hear it from someone who heard it from someone.

Your analogy with stingrays is absurd.

And warnings about not bothering to get a tourist visa has nothing to do with trying to scare people from coming to Mexico. If you get a tourist card, there isn't anything to be scared of in that regard, is there?

[Edited on 3-13-2025 by surabi]

[Edited on 3-13-2025 by surabi]

Lee - 3-12-2025 at 05:51 PM