BajaNomad

For the Baja bookworms

jrbaja - 5-27-2005 at 09:32 AM

I was wondering if any of you librarian types have or have seen any history on San Bartolo or Los Barriles. There is quite a bit of controversial information available but would love to hear any other info as well. Gracias.

Alright you ofishyonadas

jrbaja - 5-28-2005 at 11:14 AM

Not one of you "gurus" on Baja knows anything about these places? David, surely you have a book. AA ? True, there's no mission in either location but, they both played a big role in the history of Baja.

Gerhard & Gulick

John M - 5-28-2005 at 09:33 PM

In their first edition, Lower California Guidebook there is a scant paragraph about San Bartolo, and only a sentence about Las Barriles. About the only "history" in this brief mention is that at San Bartolo, " on the far side of the arroyo is an old stone chapel."

1956 edition, page 152

I'll keep looking. John M.

bajalera - 5-29-2005 at 08:21 AM

JR, I don't know of any historical accounts in English for either place, and there aren't very many references in Spanish.

Miguel del Barco mentions San Bartolo only in passing, calling it San Bartolome. It doesn't seem to have had much importance in the Jesuit period.

Pablo L. Martinez's Historia de Baja California was republished in 2003 in an Edicion critica y anotada--this time around with reference citations and a bibliography [great additions!]. This book has five references to San Bartolo, zilch on Barriles.

Ulises Irigoyen's Carretera Transpeninsular de la Baja California has two descriptions of San Bartolo--again, no mention of Barriles. [Irigoyen made a trip down the peninsula in 1943--sort of a business survey--at the request of General Francisco Mugica, then governor of BCS. Los Barriles at that time was apparently still a ranch, with no commercial importance.]

There are a few books without indices that might be helpful. Three are by Fernando Jordan: El Otro Mexico, Mar Roxo de Cortes, and Baja California, tierra incognita.

And then the two biggies in a Historia General de Baja California Sur series: Vol II, Los Procesos Politicos [781 pp.], and Vol III. Region, Sociedad y Cultura [931 pp.]. All those pages--and no index in either one. That ought to be a felony!

If I were a nicer person, I'd offer to look through these books for you. But we do have all of them, along with a lot of others that might have something useful as well, and you're welcome to stop by and browse.

Lee

yankeeirishman - 5-29-2005 at 08:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jrbaja
I was wondering if any of you librarian types have or have seen any history on San Bartolo or Los Barriles. There is quite a bit of controversial information available but would love to hear any other info as well. Gracias.

jrbaja...just what data are you looking for in gerneral on these areas? I have a great way to search out the most useful data here at my office.

Thanks you guys (and girls!)

jrbaja - 5-29-2005 at 11:13 AM

There are many legends and stories in this area and some pretty weird goings on as well. These are all from the locals.
There has been controversy as to how Los Barriles got it's name and with the proximity to the Ojo de Agua in San Bartolo, I thought it may have something to do with that, (barrels and all) but haven't found out who or how it got it's name.
San Bartolo has been known as a hiding place for stuff from the days of pirates and adventurers, because of the arroyo I suspect. Easy access to water and some pretty remote areas to lose things.
I know of two ranches that occasionally, when the moon is right, hear wagons, horses and the clanking of steel going by. But, upon investigation, there are no tracks or evidence of anything going by.
I thought with a little history, I might be able to figure out where these wagons are going and (gulp), where they came from! :lol::lol:

Don Jimmy

Paulina - 5-29-2005 at 11:30 AM

could have answered your questions.

D.E.P. Don Jimmy
P.<*)))><

That's for sure!

jrbaja - 5-29-2005 at 11:34 AM

The only problem with that is, he's the one that told me to never ruin a good story with facts:lol:

David K - 5-30-2005 at 07:57 PM

JR... I will give you what Tomas Robertson has to say, when I get back to my copy of his book 'Baja California and its Missions'...

About the Santiago mission, he wrote that it began as 'Ensenada de las Palmas' at Los Barriles (most likely)... It was moved up to near Real de Santa Ana (south of San Antonio)... then to near Santiago (Rancho La Mision)... then to today's Santiago.

bajalera - 5-31-2005 at 02:11 PM

In his book on the missions, Tomas covers the founding of Santiago by Padre Napoli on pages 44-45. Nothing much to get excited about, although in a footnote he gives directions for reaching Ensenada de las Palmas, where he says no signs of the little mission were found.

The FN continues: "To find the old Mission of Santiago de los Coras, built by Padre Napoli in 1724, before crossing the little valley to enter Santiago, turn right along the edge of the valley, drive about 2 miles, ask for the ranch of the Cota Family. The very few remains of the mission lie beneath some of their buildings. These have been known to the Cota fmily from stories handed down for many generations." Was this ranch at Los Barriles?

Miguel del Barco goes into a snit about the name "Santiago de los Coras," insisting at some length that this was always a Pericu mission. In his book Antigua California [pp.108-108], Harry Crosby provides a good account of how this erroneous name probably came to be applied.

In checking on the name, I found that Sigismundo Taraval's book on the Indian uprising [available in English] mentions "Santiago" 51 times and the Cora 8 times, but he never once connects the two. The name Santiago de los Coras occurs only in the index and the translator's footnotes. This also occurs in Baegert's book--he never says Santiago de los Coras, but the index does.

The linking of the Cora with the mission may have come about partly because this Indian group was once well known in the south. My husband interviewed a lot of ranchers throughout the Sur during the 1940s, and in one of his publications noted that at that time local people called all the natives of the south "Cora" [a name that now seems to have been replaced by "Pericu"].

Sheesh! I need to get a life.

Lee

Thank you Lera

jrbaja - 5-31-2005 at 02:45 PM

the mystery remains. This is getting interestinger. No real history from the foreign researchers. Guess I will have to go with the local information.

bajalera - 5-31-2005 at 03:01 PM

That can sometimes turn out to be interesting. In the days when I could speak Spanish decently, I once asked a rancher at El Coyote if he knew who had built the shallow enclosures that had apparently served as a trap for fish or whatever.

Si, senora, he said. The Aztecs.

Anyway, good luck on your search, JR--and I look forward to your book.

Lee

Sorry Lera

jrbaja - 5-31-2005 at 03:07 PM

Just personal interest. No books in the plans at all. I figure by the time I put all my notes together, someone will have already written one, or twelve.


And I'm still trying to figure out making paper from bamboo.

David K - 5-31-2005 at 09:05 PM

Lera, the Cota family ranch is La Mision, a couple miles down stream from Santiago town... Go to my missions web site and click on Santiago... Jack Swords was able to gain access and took a photo of the mission foundation bricks... Visitors are still not welcome (or perhaps trusted)... That is why that site is without a GPS waypoint.

Here is all that is left of the first Santiago site (excluding Ensenada de las Palmas and Santa Ana)...

So that's what it takes

jrbaja - 6-1-2005 at 11:17 AM

to keep you from posting the coordinates of everywhere you haven't been eh? I think I will follow suit with your picture posting but give pictures of you and your truck to all my friends in the mountains.:lol:

David K - 6-1-2005 at 07:49 PM

JR my bamboo growing friend... any time I am asked to not post a waypoint of a place someone tells me about and I then visit, I do not post it. I am not sure why you want your poverty stricken Mexican friends to not be discovered by money spending gringos, but if THEY ask me to not reveal anything they share with me, I won't.

You are showing them how to make money in their hidden lands, but unless the customer can go there and buy direct... no sale! However, I guess you have volunteered to be the middle man in delivering product to customers instead?

Everyplace in my GPS waypoint web site is not a secret... GPS is just another method for telling directions... it is just a tad more accurate than the odometer!

bajalera - 6-1-2005 at 10:08 PM

Thanks for the picture, DK.