BajaNomad - Loreto future - Powered by XMB

Loreto future

tehag - 6-4-2005 at 04:08 PM

http://futurosalternativosloreto.org/project.htm

Bruce R Leech - 6-4-2005 at 04:17 PM

well I guess we will just need to wait and see what they come up with in about a year. I guess now the people at Harvard are going to be telling Mexico what to do with there towns.

Reeljob - 6-4-2005 at 07:16 PM

GEEZUS. NEXT TED KENNEDY WIL BE DOWN HERE LOOKIN FOR A BRIDGE

Well, at least it keeps the grad students busy

Sharksbaja - 6-5-2005 at 02:12 AM

Whoa...... I started out thinking...hey, this is great, a study with alternatives. Let's see??????? Should we put a Burger King or a McDonalds here? Let's stick with the "authentic" looking place..... love their before and after shots. Just exactly what I envisioned.

after presentation loads(takes some time) just left click on the screen to advance...
http://www.icfdn.org/tmp/Loreto_May_2005[2].ppt

My favorite:

[Edited on 6-6-2005 by Sharksbaja]

Lto future

tehag - 6-5-2005 at 04:10 PM

The before and after slide show is interesting. The pic Sharks posted is an artists depiction of the new look at the Loreto Airport turnoff from Mex1. Hmmm.

elizabeth - 6-5-2005 at 04:33 PM

Sharks...thanks for the link...extremely sobering and not a little frightening.

Correction

Skeet/Loreto - 6-5-2005 at 05:32 PM

The Photo Posted is after you come into Loreto, as you go around the circle, there is the "El Nido' on the right, then the new Motel and then the pemex.
On your left is the Salverteria Motel. the Area coming out of the air[port and onto hwy 1 has not been developed at this point.

Skeet/Loreto

Correction

Skeet/Loreto - 6-5-2005 at 05:33 PM

The Photo Posted is after you come into Loreto, as you go around the circle, there is the "El Nido' on the right, then the new Motel and then the pemex.
On your left is the Salverteria Motel. the Area coming out of the air[port and onto hwy 1 has not been developed at this point.

Skeet/Loreto

tehag

Skeet/Loreto - 6-5-2005 at 05:42 PM

The El Nido is not in the picture but the New 3 story Motel is there and then the Pemex. Across the Street would be the old Bus station{not visible} and then the Salverteria Motel. We could always call Domingo and ask him to take a Photo.

If you have dinner there ask him to bring you the Pepper Plant for a Fresh chile>

Skeet/Loreto

Tehag

Skeet/Loreto - 6-5-2005 at 05:43 PM

Identify the large Building on the Left.

Skeet/Loreto

oops

tehag - 6-5-2005 at 06:46 PM

So I guess we're looking down Salvatierra then. Wonder what that mountain is out in the Gulf. As for the building on the left, I haven't a clue. This is a composite, computer-manipulated image and it's various parts may be from anywhere. In front of Motel Salvatierra the street is divided, and there are no shoulder lines painted on streets anywhere in Loreto proper that I know of. This is "art", and I still think, from looking at the other slide (the before slide in the Power Point presentation) that we are out on the highway. Anyway, Skeet, obviously you are familiar with Loreto. We probably have a nodding acquaintance. I tried to U2U you, but I guess I did it wrong. If you'ld like to eMail me back I'm tehag@cox.net.

jerry - 6-5-2005 at 08:54 PM

yes the comex hardware store missing well allmost a whole block gone and the west bound lane north of the divider
or
its up by the highway 1 and the penix and the rest was added??

oladulce - 6-6-2005 at 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry

... its up by the highway 1 and the penix and the rest was added??

my goodness, I must have missed a meeting.

Sharksbaja - 6-6-2005 at 12:40 AM

:bounce:

jerry - 6-6-2005 at 04:46 AM

guess i could have mistakenly typed penis? seeing when i fill up with gas at this one i have gotten the shaft

have a good one jerry

Skeet/Loreto - 6-6-2005 at 07:09 AM

Sorry Folks I did not see the first Photso are realize that it was several different views put together.

The first Photo appears to be taken at Miramar, but then it never looked that steep to me.

Just shows what can be done with Photos.

Skeet/Loreto

Sharksbaja - 6-6-2005 at 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Just shows what can be done with Photos.

Skeet/Loreto

or your town.... Skeet.

Memories

Skeet/Loreto - 6-6-2005 at 03:25 PM

When I first arrivived in Loreto the Road was just being completed across the Mountain fro Villa constitution. yes there are many changes.
Short Story;{Please overlook all mistakes of Grammer, Spelling, etc.So Mr. Bill will be happy}

Out north of Loreto at Rancho sonrisa one afternoo, i observed a fancy chey pick up bouncing amopnt the sand dunes. On checking throught the buses I observed the Original Sin being commited in the Cab. later i was approached by a young Mexicano looking for a Tow out of the Sand, in which ,due to the rambunchious actious, he had embetted his Truck into the Sand.

Proceeded to help him out and took his Girl to work at a Local Cafe.
A week later this Young man was coming North along the Seinic veiw Point at about 100 MPH, proceeded to become airborne and hit the Rocks Below. He was discovered 2 Days later. he was a local panga Capt., his Girl Friend was P>G and she now has a teen age Daughter.

The Picture of the road brought back the Memories.

If this sad, but true story offends anyone, Please contact MrBillm, for corrections.

Skeet/Loreto{ Ole, Senile, losing it Fart}

Sharksbaja

Skeet/Loreto - 6-6-2005 at 03:37 PM

Yes Sharks, that is Progress and that is the natural way of the future.

For 4 Solid years I fished Shark out of San Nicholas with Enrique Murillo, Chico and Manuel Fernadez. We would start out with a Cup full of Tequilla before daylight and end up with 2,000 Lbs of Shark either in the boat or tied to it, taking it back for the women of the village to Filet and Salt to be Sold . Food!!!!.

Anywhere that is easy to get in and out of like Loreto will change. I would hope and pray that it does not affect the people in Loreto, like the Changes in the States have affected its People, but I am Afraid it will.

At one time I had an Office on the 7th Floor of the Alcoa Building in San Francisco, with a view of the Bay and the city, but in 15 short years it chnaged from a Beautifull City to and "Ugly" City for Me.

I have finally found another Loreto for me! It is the Wide open Texas Plains with its Clear Air, Water and Good People. But I can never forget the good people of Loreto or its beautifull Sea Of cortez..
So enjoy as much as possible each Day!!

Skeet/Loreto

Capt. George - 6-6-2005 at 05:29 PM

Skeet, I don't think "your" Loreto has been your Loreto for a long, long time. The changes have been for a while...I think including Loretanos.

Only my opinion....

hasta George

George

Skeet/Loreto - 6-6-2005 at 06:41 PM

I was there last year George and was greeted and treated the same as I was the past 30 years. A few of the newer people had come in trying to Cit a Fat Hog, like the guy from Brazil, but most of the people were the same.

I think maybe that i respected them as they were and did not try to change or condem their ways built a mutual Respect between us.

Skeet/Loreto

Don Alley - 6-6-2005 at 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
The Photo Posted is after you come into Loreto, as you go around the circle, there is the "El Nido' on the right, then the new Motel and then the pemex.
On your left is the Salverteria Motel. the Area coming out of the air[port and onto hwy 1 has not been developed at this point.

Skeet/Loreto

I took the survey that used these and other photos. The photos were taken by a Harvard grad student, a native of Costa Rica, and altered with Photoshop.

Photo #1 is the airport turnoff with the Telcel billboard Photoshopped out, and photos #2 and #3 are the exact same photo with "development" added with Photoshop.

I believe #4 and #5 are Ensenada Blanca.

#6 is Juncalito, with the current village removed with Photoshop. The next photo is the same photo altered again. There is a third, un-photoshopped pic that was not posted here.

The next two pictures are south of town, near Notri, I think.

The last two are a photo of Miramar, as it is and photoshopped to what it may be.

Capt. George - 6-7-2005 at 03:51 AM

Skeet,

I think that if I were to leave Punta Abreojos and return years later, the people and their culture and town would most likely remain the same for Deborah and I.....As you, in Loreto we have become a part of "their" community in our little corner................

George

Don Alley

Skeet/Loreto - 6-7-2005 at 07:01 AM

Thanks for the details!
Sometimes this Heart medicine gives me the Heeby jeebies making it hard to concentrate.

Skeet/Loreto

Bruce R Leech - 6-7-2005 at 08:17 AM

what no Toco Bell? where are we going to get our authentic Mexican food?

Sharksbaja - 6-7-2005 at 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
[

I took the survey that used these and other photos. The photos were taken by a Harvard grad student, a native of Costa Rica, and altered with Photoshop.

Don, can you tell me what survey you're taking about?
I like these types of research and now my curiosity is piqued.
Are the following maps just a vision or are they based on real data like urban growth boundaries.
It looks as if the whole Loreto basin is included for development according to the plans maps.
I also take issue that the group includes the Loreto Bay Co.
It would seem appropriate to have some local representation that could follow the study and relate that to Loretos' citizens.

Don Alley - 6-7-2005 at 05:56 PM

Sharksbaja:

The survey is part of the evaluation by the universities. It involves sorting 50 photos into groups of most appealing, next most, neutral, bad, terrible. Some photos are altered, some are not. The objective, I believe, is to get some kind of data suggesting that development can reduce an area's appeal to tourists.

Maps: The "Plan Director Proposal" map is from Fonatur, and dates back to about 1984. Yet it is still the current proposal for a development master plan and carries a great deal of weight in this process. The POET map is the only developed alternative proposed so far, and calls for less waterfront development. The conflict maps suggests areas where there may be conflicting public and private views on use and access.

The university group will craft a report detailing impacts of the proposals...on water quality, water quantity, social aspects, electrical resources, sewage, garbage, schools, public services, and all that technical stuff that is difficult for small town leaders to project in the face of development. Interested parties have until September 1 to propose additional scenarios to the university group.

But here's a point the professors strongly stress: that with development coming, with or without a master plan, Loreto will be disadvantaged without adopting some comprehensive plan. A lower ability to attract needed funds for infrastructure was one possible problem cited. In other words, the current administration is being told it is not a good idea to just avoid the planning process, as the previous munincipal administration did.

The Authentic Mexican Villages of Loreto Bay's involvement is unclear; they are a possible source for funding, and have the organizational ability to propose an alternative by the Sept deadline. But so far, who knows what, if any, position they may take.

One further comment...I did speak with the University of Arizona prof studying water. He believes Loreto's current water source can support no more than 25,000, and that the water table in the valley where the water is drawn is dropping...that some of the certain big development's water well plans are not feasible...that the electrical grid may not be able to support much desalinization...

Don

Skeet/Loreto - 6-8-2005 at 06:29 AM

As you must know, from the very start I have ask "Where is the Water coming from to support the increases in population?}

As the Az. prof reported, there is just not enough Water or Power, very similiar to other Projects started and stopped in various parts of mexico.

I still think it would be feasible to buy water from Canada, ship it through the Colorado River System to Baja and Mexico Mainland.

Skeet/Loreto

Sharksbaja - 6-9-2005 at 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don Alley
The Authentic Mexican Villages of Loreto Bay's involvement is unclear; they are a possible source for funding, and have the organizational ability to propose an alternative by the Sept deadline. But so far, who knows what, if any, position they may take.

That is what scares me. Given a void, and an important one like urban planning, I can see the benefit of being "first at bat". Authentic Mexican Villages of Loreto Bay's (and others)planners,lawyers and political strong-arms will dominate the scenery. They care not about resource availability above and beyond their project. Especially infrastructure like wells ,grids, roads, sewers. They will just wait for the invitation. They are at the front of the line so to speak.

Problems like the blatant use of water for the golf courses, they are sooooo important for commerce! Who has the say?

Is the town of Loreto at any obligation to follow any of the recommendations put on the table by this study group? Do the officials actually have a master blueprint from which to work or is all their knowledge based on the 1984 event(s).
I worry that the wrong folks may benefit from this grandiose study. The lowly grad students.

[Edited on 6-9-2005 by Sharksbaja]

Don

Skeet/Loreto - 6-9-2005 at 01:50 PM

Good Photos and description of the Loreto Area.
Question: Can you bring up any of the Area North of Loreto.
You know the View from the "Penthouse" to the south is excellent.

Many years ago a young man came down and built 13 home sites in those small Hills across the Hwy from where the villages will be constructed. He stoped his Construction when he had a Study done of the Water problem.

Skeet/Loreto

Skeet, here are the rest....

Sharksbaja - 6-10-2005 at 12:17 AM

of the study area around Loreto:

It seems like a large area. Do you know how many kms between north and south pics?
Thanx Don, for the info.

[Edited on 6-10-2005 by Sharksbaja]

Skeet and Sharks

Don Alley - 6-10-2005 at 08:54 AM

Skeet...north of town

The area north of town appears to be developing independently of any plan. Rumors: the current mayor/presidente is not happy that the ejido subdivided the beach north of town with no roads or acess to the beach. There is a potential for a solid wall of housing, except for the large arroyos. Also, the development that hopes to build the marina north of town has destroyed a spur road to the beach along their northern fenceline to keep people away from "their' beach (this after relocating the main road away from the water), and some local Americans up there asked the city for their own police protection and to close the beach to the public. The city said no. Rumor: A man from Seattle has purchased the old Mission Hotel, to restore it, and the Doctor's Point (El Bajo) property will not be developed in the near future.

Sharks...

These university folks are primarily middle-age professors...not young grad students. So they seem well established in their careers and under no pressure to deliver to anyone.

They will develop a report and make a presentation. They are here strictly to provide information. The munincipality will be under no obligation to heed any recommendation, or to take any action. What's happening here is Loreto's local officials, like their small-town counterparts all over the world, just don't have the experience to deal with these issues they are now facing. So interested parties (?) arranged this study. The city didn't ask for it. While some may try to influence the profs, I don't believe that will work. They will be influenced by their established methodology. Then, interested parties will try to influence the munincipality, and who knows? After that, there may be opportunities at the state and federal level but I haven't gotten there yet.

Clout: The professor making the presentation stressed that Fonatur is a major player with considerable clout. Loreto? So far, virtually no public interest, and a prior public meeting drew no one. This May meeting was packed but 2/3 were Americans. But local newspapers are covering these issues and people are starting to talk about beach closures, so that may change.

As for the Magnificent and Amazingly Authentic Mega-Villages of Loreto Bay, who knows? Some think they may try to push for less development, therefore less competition for potential buyers and for resources like water and power. Maybe. But I suspect that they will support their ally Fonatur, no matter what, because they may need Fonatur's clout to assure themselves water, power, and sewage. Or they may stay clear, not wanting to risk offending anyone. And they may welcome competing development as a means of giving the area more publicity and pushing property values even higher. People like to say "We don't want another Cabo" but real estate folks are pushing Loreto property as an oportunity to "Get in on the ground floor at the next Cabo."

There is a new newspaper out with an account of a meeting with someone from the Truly Magnificent and Absolutely Amazingly Authentic Mega-Villages of Loreto Bay Organic Bamboo Farms and presidente Rudolpho Davis...but my Spanish is in the formative stages, and I have to find another copy and get a translation.

Went fishing yesterday. If a bunch more people are coming, they better put some more fish in the sea.

Don

Skeet/Loreto - 6-10-2005 at 10:06 AM

Thanks for all the good pictures!
Where did you go fishng that you did not catch many Fish?

If you run out of Secret Places give me a u2u and i may be able to help.

Skeet/Loreto

Good info, I figured as much..

Sharksbaja - 6-10-2005 at 11:49 AM

Don

Pretty hard to put the real players together and have a comprehensive town meeting. Especially one that has clear pictures. These big developments may be a given in Canada and the U.S., but they(the local gov) probably hear nothing but foreign jibberish in Loreto. I am sure Fonatur would much rather have less responsibility when it comes to running power lines and laying sewers.
So, what you are saying is......... there is no real sense of infrastucture planning continuity outside the Magnificent and Amazingly Authentic Mega-Villages of Loreto Bay project?. Is it like "play as you go, build as you go" after that one is in?

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Don

Thanks for all the good pictures
Skeet/Loreto

And you used zero hard disc space on your server, wow, howd' you do that