BajaNomad - LORETO property

LORETO property

BAJADICTO - 7-20-2005 at 10:43 AM

Hello my fellow NOMADs

I currently own 2 pieces of land in San Felipe. However, I've been doing research on Loreto and it is beautiful. I am not only convinced by looking at pictures, but reading about the history, ecology, people, and current projects to preserve the culture and it's natural habitat. It does not sound like a bad place to buy land for vacationing and maybe even retiring. Can anyone point me to a good source where I can find good deals on land? Does anyone own land there? If so, what is the price range and how are the payment plans?

Thank You in advance

"and current projects to preserve the culture and it's natural habitat. "

jrbaja - 7-20-2005 at 10:54 AM

:lol:

JZ - 7-20-2005 at 11:08 AM

Go ahead, slam another newie, Senior El Elite Bambozo (Anti-American) Nomad. Does it make you feel good...

Bajadicto: buy as much as you can afford, it is a beautiful place and a great investment... ignore the jealous.

That wasn't slamming

jrbaja - 7-20-2005 at 11:34 AM

It's just the way the coop groupers like to interpret it. And if it makes the coop happy to call me anti american, I expect nothing less from these mental giants.
But what I really am is anti "ugly american" which JZ and the grupo gallenas definitely fall into. All 6 of them! :lol:

wilderone - 7-20-2005 at 11:43 AM

You should do a subject search on this message board for background; go to Loreto and look around and ask a lot of questions and talk to the "realtors" in town there (not the development pimps). Depending on your level of appreciation for the "real Baja" and the environment, you will come to your own conclusion about what is going on there.

JZ - 7-20-2005 at 12:58 PM

Bambozo: the only thing you are good at is ruining this board by dominating it with your anti-American crap and slamming newbies or anyone for that matter who states something out of line with your thought process. Control freak, insecure, and jealous is what it translates to...

yankeeirishman - 7-20-2005 at 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJADICTO
Hello my fellow NOMADs

I currently own 2 pieces of land in San Felipe. However, I've been doing research on Loreto and it is beautiful. I am not only convinced by looking at pictures, but reading about the history, ecology, people, and current projects to preserve the culture and it's natural habitat. It does not sound like a bad place to buy land for vacationing and maybe even retiring. Can anyone point me to a good source where I can find good deals on land? Does anyone own land there? If so, what is the price range and how are the payment plans?

Thank You in advance

I buy/lease San Felipe non improved land. LMK if you are selling your sites. deno@gigo.com

" Control freak, insecure, and jealous is what it translates to..."

jrbaja - 7-20-2005 at 01:10 PM

Quite the intuitive guy that JZ. :lol:

backninedan - 7-20-2005 at 01:10 PM

Bajadicto, check your u2u

realtors

tehag - 7-20-2005 at 02:32 PM

Some realtors are linked to this site:

http://www.loretogolf.net

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by tehag]

BAJADICTO - 7-20-2005 at 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JZ
Go ahead, slam another newie, Senior El Elite Bambozo (Anti-American) Nomad. Does it make you feel good...

Bajadicto: buy as much as you can afford, it is a beautiful place and a great investment... ignore the jealous.

Thanks JZ. I am just expressing my PASSION for Baja and someday want to tell wonderfull stories and help others as most of you in this post do. I've been to the FONATUR site and they seem to talk about so many great plans they have for Baja (Loreto being one of the biggest). Maybe there is something I don't know about these big projects.

BAJADICTO - 7-20-2005 at 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yankeeirishman
I buy/lease San Felipe non improved land. LMK if you are selling your sites. deno@gigo.com

I don't plan on selling my property soon but will sure let you know if things change.
I've seen a picture of one of your property's view, it was beautiful. From the view, I would say it is south of town; somewhere passing the marina.
One of my lots is next to Ramona Hotel, 2 blocks from the "Malecon". My brothers and I are currently utilizing it as a Parking Lot. We purchased it Jan. this year and I've been working it every major holiday so far. Spring Break was the busiest. Needs lots of work but the profit from the parking is helping.
Maybe I will see you there some time so we can have a few Margaritas and talk BAJA.

right down from the trailer motel

yankeeirishman - 7-20-2005 at 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJADICTO

Quote:

Originally posted by yankeeirishman
I buy/lease San Felipe non improved land. LMK if you are selling your sites. deno@gigo.com

You're on the same street as the trailer motel? I think I know that lot. It's double size lot, yes? In town lots is what we looking at this coming Feb. I love that downtown, small, cozy, everyone knows everyone.

Hey...neverming the war here on your post...it happens to all of us :cool:

BAJADICTO - 7-21-2005 at 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by yankeeirishman
You're on the same street as the trailer motel? I think I know that lot. It's double size lot, yes? In town lots is what we looking at this coming Feb. I love that downtown, small, cozy, everyone knows everyone.

Hey...neverming the war here on your post...it happens to all of us :cool:

Yes. It is right across the empty lot that is sometimes used for the Fair. The neighbors are very nice people and I am getting to know the people in town many of which know my Mother (she was born in this once Fishing port in 1952). I have lots of fun listening to their stories on how abundant in fish San Felipe was and how it was in the past.

dog!

yankeeirishman - 7-21-2005 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJADICTO

Quote:

Very nice buy! We looked at it too. That must had been you that shoved us outda the deal! :lol:

Settled on something else. I hope you understand that you have a very good futures return on that twin lot. Premium indeed. Too bad you cant make a small self contained RV park there. Add a few trees, tables.

Don Alley - 7-22-2005 at 09:45 AM

Loreto is nice. But be careful.

Fonatur: These people are strictly for high-end developments for foreigners. Contrary to any plans for "preserving the culture and it's natural habitat" Fonatur has a development plan to develop ALL of the region's beaches, preserving only cliffs, and turning Loreto into a big slum for workers from the mainland.

Loreto Bay talks about housing for their workers, but the current reality is old storefronts with newspaper over the window, and bedrolls on the floor in ultra high density "housing." No showers, no furniture. Two examplles are on Calle Juarez just west of the Pemex, another on Zapata near that Pemex. It's the beginning of the Fonatur plan to degrade the town in favor of exclusive "Authentic Mexican Villages" outside of town.

So far, despite feverish building at Loreto Bay, there is no visible evidence of any new "ecoscapes" or "sustainability." There are currently no public plans for sewage, and plans for water keep changing. No sign of any development of "sustainable" electric power. Power, water, sewer, trash collection, roads, security...will they keep their promises, or abandon the buyers to the mercy of the munincipality? When they try and sell you on the virtues of their straw-man "title insurance" ask if that title insurance protects you from a lack of water, power, sewage treatment, police protection, fire protection, etc.

Crime and security. Some suggested that the increased development could lead to more crime. It hasn't taken long. Hundreds of newly arrived single young men from the mainland are here for work at Loreto Bay. Crime has skyrocketed, with at least 12 break-ins at Nopolo in June alone.

Realators. Most are brand new here. I won't give specifics, but I have heard many bad things about one local high-profile realtor.

Prices have gone way up the last couple of years, but are still affordable. If you can acclimate to sound trucks, roosters, barking dogs, there are still reasonable and relatively secure deals for lots in town. Houses too, but most are tear-downs or nearly so.

edited for gramer and speling.

[Edited on 7-22-2005 by Don Alley]

Bruce R Leech - 7-22-2005 at 10:03 AM

nice report Don Alley please keep us posted on further developments.

"Authentic Mexican Villages" :lol:

Don's report is 100% correct

flyfishinPam - 7-22-2005 at 11:59 AM

Don can you U2U me?

I'm concerned about everything Don is saying as I'm a full time resident with a family. We're staying in Loreto and will have to live with whatever the municipio dishes out, but I'm concerned. The housing for the newly migrated workers and their lining the streets concerns me. I send off boats early in the morning (5 - 6:30am) and I see the guys, looking pretty rough all over town waiting for the bus to take them to the worksite. I worry about the young girls who need to walk by them to school during the same hours. They also hang out in front of my shop, as its also a bus stop, and sometimes I need to get in and out in the early morning past them. So far they've been very nice, but I worry about it still as usually I'm by myself.

The break-ins are escalating but they're not always the result of the newcomers, they are also a result of locals some of whom are well known by the authorities and continue to be set free to repeat the crime. The methanphetamine problem is huge here and this chit drug the major reason for these break-ins.

Loeto's problems with having enough water, power and sewer not to mention firefighting, medical and police services are increasing. Currently the city's water is shut off for about 24 hours each week. Brown-outs have been a daily occurance since the new development started (almost two years ago), and the current sewage system is at optimum operating capacity.

Loreto is one of the noisiest places I've ever experienced. The people here love noise or maybe they don't understand that its unnecessary and invasive-, driving megaphones announcing things so loud and distortedly that you can barely make out what they're saying in the first place, schools that have directors barking orders to the children all day long, the malecon and the car stereos- (during Easter Week they actually have the "loudest car stereo contest"), roosters and barking dogs everywhere, neighbors who have no regard for the peace of others blairing their music day and night. (I live outside of town and off the grid, so the lack of electricity has kept it quite up there, thank goodness.)

Despite these troubles I love living here for the beauty around us and for the fact that its a safe community for my small children. The education system here leaves something to be desierd but I will supplement with home schooling for my little ones.

I won't get into the work ethic of the locals, but its a big drawback.

Suerte

yankeeirishman - 7-22-2005 at 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyfishinPam
Don can you U2U me?

I'm concerned about everything Don is saying as I'm a full time resident with a family. We're staying in Loreto and will have to live with whatever the municipio dishes out, but I'm concerned. The housing for the newly migrated workers and their lining the streets concerns me. I send off boats early in the morning (5 - 6:30am) and I see the guys, looking pretty rough all over town waiting for the bus to take them to the worksite. I worry about the young girls who need to walk by them to school during the same hours. They also hang out in front of my shop, as its also a bus stop, and sometimes I need to get in and out in the early morning past them. So far they've been very nice, but I worry about it still as usually I'm by myself.

The break-ins are escalating but they're not always the result of the newcomers, they are also a result of locals some of whom are well known by the authorities and continue to be set free to repeat the crime. The methanphetamine problem is huge here and this chit drug the major reason for these break-ins.

Loeto's problems with having enough water, power and sewer not to mention firefighting, medical and police services are increasing. Currently the city's water is shut off for about 24 hours each week. Brown-outs have been a daily occurance since the new development started (almost two years ago), and the current sewage system is at optimum operating capacity.

Loreto is one of the noisiest places I've ever experienced. The people here love noise or maybe they don't understand that its unnecessary and invasive-, driving megaphones announcing things so loud and distortedly that you can barely make out what they're saying in the first place, schools that have directors barking orders to the children all day long, the malecon and the car stereos- (during Easter Week they actually have the "loudest car stereo contest"), roosters and barking dogs everywhere, neighbors who have no regard for the peace of others blairing their music day and night. (I live outside of town and off the grid, so the lack of electricity has kept it quite up there, thank goodness.)

Despite these troubles I love living here for the beauty around us and for the fact that its a safe community for my small children. The education system here leaves something to be desierd but I will supplement with home schooling for my little ones.

I won't get into the work ethic of the locals, but its a big drawback.

Suerte

Hunting season should be opened for these ear busting screams on wheels. San Felipe has them too. Sorry to say though...I can remember living in Arcadia , Ca as an 7 year old.....and that screams on wheels came down our street often. That's one thing in my life that I dont miss. The ex is the other thing. She screamed louder :lol:

BAJADICTO - 7-22-2005 at 03:25 PM

Yes thanks for the info Don

Thank you as well for sharing your information Pam.

Sad to hear how such Big Projects seem to help, but eventually impair the peace.

I guess the same applies to San Felipe. I've been going to San Felo for the last 10 years. I remember how we could walk home from the Beach at 1 A.M with no worries of danger from "Malandrines" or even the "Policia". During the hot summers we would sleep outside with no worries. San Felipe is also growing fast and has many projects pending. There are also many workers that come from the mainland. I'll tell you what though, there is nothing more relieving and peaceful then going to BAJA. As soon as I pass the border, it feels as I leave the big load at behind. Everything is just so different and I love it.

wilderone - 7-22-2005 at 03:38 PM

" the current reality is old storefronts with newspaper over the window, and bedrolls on the floor in ultra high density "housing." No showers, no furniture. "

"there is no visible evidence of any new "ecoscapes" or "sustainability." There are currently no public plans for sewage, and plans for water keep changing. No sign of any development of "sustainable" electric power. "

"Hundreds of newly arrived single young men from the mainland are here for work at Loreto Bay. Crime has skyrocketed, with at least 12 break-ins at Nopolo in June alone."

"Currently the city's water is shut off for about 24 hours each week. Brown-outs have been a daily occurance since the new development started (almost two years ago), and the current sewage system is at optimum operating capacity."

TOLDJASO. and this is only the beginning.

PovertyBay - 7-22-2005 at 06:14 PM

A follow-on question from a newbie. Are there ownership opportunities for those not interested in the extremes (either high-profile compounds for expatriate Canadians or primitive outposts with no power?) If not in Loreto, then where in Baja would a middle-of-the-road gringo find a modest but accessible home and the opportunity to come to know the unspoiled Baja?

I'd reveal more about my background, but then you'd only learn that I'm a Canadian, living in the US, who can't yet speak Spanish. I'm working diligently to overcome each of those shortcomings. Can you provide some advice for the handicapped?

Bruce R Leech - 7-22-2005 at 06:24 PM

Quote:

and they are just getting started. :barf:

Sharksbaja - 7-22-2005 at 06:41 PM

Hey, I thought I told ya so..... :lol:

These threads say it all:

Canadians in Loreto

Grad study

elizabeth - 7-23-2005 at 07:57 AM

I am really sorry that those of us who criticized Loreto Bay, questioned their practices, and were skeptical of their promises were right. I would like to have been proven wrong.

Bruce R Leech - 7-23-2005 at 08:03 AM

I wonder what happened to the 1,000,000.00 dollars that they donated to the town? :lol:

it seems like a little bit of that spent in a few of the right places would take car of some of these problems.

I wonder where JZ is?

jrbaja - 7-23-2005 at 08:44 AM

And Cinco, what's your take on all this?
Unfortunately, I have seen this crap happen in too many places. I feel bad for those that get suckered in, unless of course they were previously warned to be careful. :light:

vandenberg - 7-23-2005 at 09:00 AM

Sitting here at my PC,looking at the Loreto Bay project taking shape. See hundreds of workers,yet the progress is hardly noticable. Still only one unit completed,and at this pace,the first phase will take years. And already they are talking about clearing the land towards the Whale's Inn and start selling it in October. Been here for 13 years and it has been nice and peaceful. Seems that's coming to an end. Also looks like beach access will only be for walking folks,since the most southerly house is almost to the Hotel wall. And to say nothing about the DUST!!! :fire:

Don Alley - 7-23-2005 at 09:18 AM

Follow-ups...

Loreto Bay's million $$$ for Loreto..they recently gave the "down payment" of a million dollar donation for clinic/hospital expansion. The rest is pledged. Cynics and critics say these facilities will be high fee and tailored for foreigners, not Loretanos or mainlanders.

Local pronunciation of "Loreto Bay" is "Loreto Buy." Some locals chuckle at the pun.

Lots in town: Prices have risen dramatically. Numerous stories go like this: a certain real estate business gets listings, and bases the sale price on the "old" prices. In other words, you agree to sell your lot to ****** Realty for 120,000 pesos. Then the property is listed for $60,000 US dollars. Folks from California think that's reasonable...SOLD! The real estate agent pockets the difference-the poor seller gets 120,000 pesos.

OR...a lot on our block just sold for $20,000 US. Within days a realtor's For Sale sign went up. It's listed at $60,000.

So, a realtor here may not get a buyer the best price; their involvement may cost buyers big bucks with no benefits to the original sellers. If buying, try to negotiate a sale that limits the realtor cut to a reasonable percentage of the seller's cut.

The recent La Region local newspaper had articles on Loreto Bay workers. It included allegations of lower than promised paychecks, worse than promised housing, workers walking off the job and asking to be sent back to the mainland, and complaints of the behavior of workers housed in Colonia Zaragosa. These stories are the same as stories related to us weeks ago by a local friend who was employed at Loreto Bay.

Also there was a story of a local realtor warning of real estate swindles that has a certain irony if one hears local rumors. And other local friends we know are losing their apartment, and can't find new housing except way in the outskirts, and they have no car. Bummer. Tight housing in Centro.

But we came here from Kalispell Montana, now bloated by tourist/vacation related development, and we've seen it all before, and before that even, and sometimes grow tired of playing Cassandra. They NEVER listen and local authorities ALWAYS base decisions on the tales of jobs and prosperity for the average citizen. But the good news is that some of the local big shots will make a killing.

And no, sorry I don't do U2U's, and am going offline for a while in a couple of days. Heading north to the USA, got a new grandchild I haven't seen yet, stuff to do, etc etc. And I suspect when I get back in a few months thre will be some changes.

I just hope Loreto isn't eaten by giant squid.

SLO-Lair - 8-3-2005 at 08:19 PM

I'm in the process of purchasing a property in Loreto via a Mexican corporation rather than a fideicomiso. I've hired a local attorney, Alfredo Cristo, to set up the corporation and arrange the purchase with the local notaria publica. I'll soon be depositing the purchase money into his trust account. My question is, has anyone dealt with Lic. Cristo? If so what was your impression?

I've seen a lot of advice posted about buying title insurance for property purchases in Baja but am of the impression that the U.S. title companies doing business in MX only sell title insurance in a few areas such as Los Cabos. For instance the Loreto Bay project offers it but I'm told by Sr. Cristo that it is not available in Loreto proper. More importantly, I've been told that what the title insurance companies sell is more like a preliminary title report than actual dollar-for-dollar insurance against real estate fraud.

Anyone out there have any personal experience or knowledge that might enlighten me?

Dave - 8-3-2005 at 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SLO-Lair
I'm in the process of purchasing a property in Loreto via a Mexican corporation rather than a fideicomiso. I've hired a local attorney, Alfredo Cristo, to set up the corporation and arrange the purchase with the local notaria publica. I'll soon be depositing the purchase money into his trust account.

First, I would want to inquire as to the nature of the trust account. How is it set up, who is the trustee?

Then, be aware that it is not legal to use a corporation to shelter property used as a residence.

Quote:

Originally posted by SLO-Lair
I've seen a lot of advice posted about buying title insurance for property purchases in Baja but am of the impression that the U.S. title companies doing business in MX only sell title insurance in a few areas such as Los Cabos. For instance the Loreto Bay project offers it but I'm told by Sr. Cristo that it is not available in Loreto proper. More importantly, I've been told that what the title insurance companies sell is more like a preliminary title report than actual dollar-for-dollar insurance against real estate fraud.

Don't rely on Sr. Cristo. Ask the title companies if they will write.

Title insurance is what it is. It will insure against known chain of title, period.

Phil S - 8-4-2005 at 07:41 AM

I'm told that Loreto Bay "stepped up to the plate" and arranged for Loreto Municipal to establish a police office in the ground floor of their offices in Nopolo, and that two police vehicles are seen patroling 24/7 now. I'm not sure the number of break ins in Nopolo are reported correctly. I have friends who live down there year round in Nopolo and they would have said something about it to me if it were that bad. Not to say it isn't happening. Loreto/Nopolo are great for expounding rumors from the Cafe Ole "morning crowd". I own a home in Nopolo, and amazing how the "non homeowners" are more concerned about the water & electricity and sewer than we are. But then again, I didn't grow up in southern California where apparantly that was or is a problem with the huge growth they are experiencing.

wilderone - 8-4-2005 at 09:23 AM

... I didn't grow up in southern California where apparantly that was or is a problem with the huge growth they are experiencing."
In the first place, that is not the case, and secondly, doesn't have anything to do with an objective perspective we "non homeowners" have toward LB and its impact. And the actions of LB, arranging for a localized police station in the midst of their development, is obviously self-serving.

elizabeth - 8-4-2005 at 09:37 AM

I hope LB is paying the municipality for the extra police protection...
I know a woman in Loreto whose husband is a cop...she always said it was the easiest job that you could have because there was no crime to speak of. Too bad that seems to have changed.

"I own a home in Nopolo, and amazing how the "non homeowners" are more concerned about the water & electricity and sewer than we are."

jrbaja - 8-4-2005 at 09:43 AM

I think that it's not so much concern about water and power Phil, although with all those new neighbors you are about to have, that will definitely be an issue. It's more about what's going to happen to a once pristine area, all of the wonderful people who used to live in that area, what's going to happen to the Sea of Cortez because of all the new boats, and how this kind of development will affect the entire peninsula.

Did you know Loreto Bay was going to happen when you bought your house in Nopolo?
Personally, I have a feeling that those who lived there before the LB project will be selling their homes because of the wonderful changes that happen when developers strike! :lol:

Other places too will feel the pressure.

Sharksbaja - 8-4-2005 at 12:47 PM

The project is too close to the mountains and repercussions will reverberate up there too I 'm afraid.

SLO-Lair - 8-4-2005 at 02:39 PM

Here is what Stewart Title in Mexico City said when asked about the availabilty of title insurance in Loreto.

They insure property transactions all over Baja and charge $700 per $100,000 of purchase price. Additionally, they charge up to $1,500 to do the title search. That price is lower if the property in question is located in an area where they have done other work, if not expect the higher price. They also said that the title insurance they offer in MX gives the same type of coverage as title insurance they sell in the U.S.

wilderone - 8-4-2005 at 02:43 PM

Re: the downpayment for the medical facility - it wasn't a million, it was $150,000. The origins of the expected balance is nebulous -- including from the LB homeowners and donations! That leaves about $700,000 left to be granted to the town of Loreto. Where's the money?

6/21/05
Loreto Bay, Baja California Sur, Mexico - Loreto Bay Company today announced their pledge to raise $800,000 to fund construction of a new medical facility for the historic town of Loreto.

Loreto Bay Company executives presented a check for $150,000 today, representing the first installment of the pledge. The presentation was part of a community celebration, which took place in the town square, near Loreto?s famed mission, Our Lady of Loreto. The yet-to-be named facility will be a comprehensive medical center capable of servicing the growing healthcare needs of the entire Loreto community.

The donation, which is to be paid in installments over the next five years, will come from a variety of sources, including Loreto Bay Company, friends of the company, Loreto Bay home owners, and foundations, including the Loreto Bay Foundation, a non-profit organization established by the company to serve the economic and social needs of the historic town of Loreto. Individuals may participate by donating everything from a wing of the facility to medical equipment, to fixtures. To recognize donors? generosity, Loreto Bay Company will construct a Healing Garden, which will feature hand painted tiles, pavers, fountains, benches and landscaping, which may be presented in honor or memory of a love one. Tasteful plaques will recognize these donations.

"We've always placed an emphasis on being a good neighbor and Loreto has been a good neighbor to us," said James Grogan, president and CEO of the Loreto Bay Company. "We are very pleased to take the lead in developing such an important resource for the people of Loreto. Investing in the healthcare system is evidence of our belief that nothing is more valuable to the community than the well-being of its current and future residents."
Loreto Bay has partnered with FONATUR, Mexico?s tourism development agency, to develop The Villages of Loreto Bay, an authentic Mexican seaside community in Baja California Sur. In the early stages of its partnership, the Loreto Bay Company pledged to donate one percent of home sales back to the community as a way to help foster economic and social growth in the Loreto area.

Having recently exceeded $140 million in residential real estate sales, the Loreto Bay Company will thus generate, as sales close, $1.4 million to the Loreto Bay Foundation to support local projects in education, extracurricular activities, business development, medical services, environmental protection, and affordable housing. With bylaws aimed at conserving Loreto?s natural beauty and protecting the nearby national marine park, the Loreto Bay Foundation?s principles are aligned with the development of The Villages of Loreto Bay. Development practices include programs for sustainable energy, water renewal and land stewardship, as well as creating economic opportunities through new jobs and local businesses. Through a host agreement, tax-deductible donations to the Loreto Bay Foundation may be made to The Ocean Foundation (www.oceanfdn.org), a non-profit organization. Donors should note that the contribution is for the Loreto Bay medical facility.

backninedan - 8-4-2005 at 03:34 PM

Donation to Loreto Bay Foundation??? now thats funny.