BajaNomad - Baja Golf or what? That is the question.

Baja Golf or what? That is the question.

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MrBillM - 7-31-2005 at 12:25 PM

You're tilting at windmills if you think there is any possiblility that there won't be more and more golf courses built on the coast whenever possible. The reason, of course, is that they are great revenue producers. Golfers are dedicated (fanatic ?) and are willing to lay out a lot of dough to play the game. Down in Palm Springs a great deal is to be able to play a course for under a hundred bucks and golfers will endure all sorts of adverse conditions to play. The most memorable photo I've ever seen of golfers was on the front page of the Los Angeles Times during the Lebanese Civil War. It showed members of the U.S. embassy out on the golf course in Flak Jackets.

Having played the game in High School and afterwards, I just don't see the fascination. Different Strokes, I guess.

elizabeth - 7-31-2005 at 12:26 PM

Not to speak of the use of herbicides, pesticides, fertilizers, etc., on the courses, and what happens when residues end up in adjacent watercourses...streams, mangroves, estuaries, lagoons, etc.

Can they produce....

Sharksbaja - 7-31-2005 at 01:03 PM

....anything positive. If not, who the hell cares anymore about the rich and spoiled and their stupid game.
A doctors playground. hahahaha :lol:

:moon:

elgatoloco - 7-31-2005 at 04:27 PM

To each his own.

Golf is fun. Especially seaside golf. In February we golfed at Bajamar and witnessed a mother grey whale nursing her baby just inside the kelp while playing the four holes that are perched along the rocky shoreline there. It was great. I embrace the privilege to take a "good walk spoiled" at any opportunity.

Golf courses use LOTS of reclaimed water where I live. Water that the public won?t drink because it once went down a toilet, never mind the fact that it is PERFECTLY healthy to drink.

I surfed with my father until he was well into his sixties. He is now 80 and we spend 4 or 5 hours 3-4 times a month chasing the little white pill thru the grass, cactus, rocks, whatever and ALWAYS have some laughs and a very good time. It is quality time that we both cherish.

I am not saying that every bit of open seaside space should be turned into a golf course, but............... :biggrin:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/w-fact/0015.html

who cares?

neilmac - 7-31-2005 at 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
....anything positive. If not, who the hell cares anymore about the rich and spoiled and their stupid game.
A doctors playground. hahahaha :lol:

:moon:

Who Cares?... the ones who collect when the 'rich and spoiled' pay their tab.

Problem is, the 'r & s' pay with cash, of which they have much, the rest of us pay, too.... with quality of life, which is getting poorer and poorer.

A few collect, yes, but everyone pays.

Neil

PacO - 7-31-2005 at 04:34 PM

Well hell, I plan entirely on being rich someday.......and I will spoil the chiite out of myself and my family when I get there. Won't do me any good to take it to the grave.
Being middle-aged now, though, golf looms on the horizon for when I am to old to do anything fun. :biggrin:

rpleger - 7-31-2005 at 05:18 PM

Playing golf is fun and good exercise.

turtleandtoad - 7-31-2005 at 05:36 PM

You'll never stop coastline development completely so, in my opinion, a golf course is the lessor of two evils. The other being hotels and high-rise condos blocking the coastal view and cutting off beach access completely.

Can you say " Cabo tourist corridor"?

Maybe you guys haven't seen Hawaii...

Sharksbaja - 7-31-2005 at 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by turtleandtoad
You'll never stop coastline development completely so, in my opinion, a golf course is the lessor of two evils. The other being hotels and high-rise condos blocking the coastal view and cutting off beach access completely.

Can you say " Cabo tourist corridor"?

and the miles of unspoiled golf courses. :mad:

The beach transition zone should be a corridor for animals as well as humans. Not for privledged golfers. But then again, whoever said golfers were environmentally sensitive :lol:

Dave - 7-31-2005 at 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rpleger
Playing golf is fun and good exercise.

Yeah, unless you're serious about it.

IMO, there isn't a spot on God's green earth that wouldn't look better with golf course.

bajablue - 7-31-2005 at 09:41 PM

There is what, 2,000 miles of coastline around baja? I would say there are maybe less then 10 golf coarses on the water and 7 of those are in Cabo. I think there are a lot worse things being put next to the water in Baja, then again, I am a golfer. Just my two cents..

I never play golf-------

Barry A. - 7-31-2005 at 10:18 PM

but I agree with Dave, and the others who support golf and the courses. I have never seen a golf course that I thought was ugly, even on the coast. We go to Hawaii fairly often, and the golf courses there are truly beautiful.

As we all realize, especially recently on this "board", we have many, many diverse opinions. Ain't that great???

Barry

the other guy

jerry - 8-1-2005 at 12:42 AM

im not a golfer thou my folks owed a course for a decade
what bothers me here is the attude if i dont like it it must be bad
but if i do like it, it must be alright
a tourst in another country is messing up the culture??
a reastarunt on a west coast bay draws ppl and pulute the area??
four wheeling is ruining the back country?
fishing depleting the sea?
golf course on the cliffs riuning the view
my spelling messing up this thread
i ask you all to be carefull when wishing away someone elses
pleasures as their wishing away yours
each time we try to takeaway someone elses right to life as they like it we loose somemore of our own
let it be, let it beeeee let it beeee let it bee speaking words of wisdom let it bee eeeee (by some bugs)

anywhere?

Sharksbaja - 8-1-2005 at 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave

IMO, there isn't a spot on God's green earth that wouldn't look better with golf course.

You gotta be kidding, Dave :no:

Many belong elsewhere in my opinion. Can you imagine one put in on your favorite secluded beach. Kinda out of place, like a New York Deli in Baja :lol:

Jerry-----------WELL SAID !!!!!!

Barry A. - 8-1-2005 at 07:01 AM

Dave - 8-1-2005 at 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Can you imagine one put in on your favorite secluded beach.

OK, everywhere except my secluded beach.

Efficient Land Use

MrBillM - 8-1-2005 at 09:38 AM

This reminds me of an idea I had some 40 years ago.

Given the fanatic attachment Golfers have for the game, I proposed that the courses serve a dual use as cemetaries. Truly dedicated Golfers should be willing to pay extraordinary amounts to be buried on their favorite course. Sites could be priced according to their location, the lowest prices in the rough and the highest on the greens.

Anyway, just an idea.

[Edited on 8-1-2005 by MrBillM]

Golf

tehag - 8-1-2005 at 09:39 AM

I golf, you fish, he offroads, she jet skis. None are without a price environmentally. I was trying to think up a response to this post when Jerry took care of that for me. I couldn't have said it better. Thanks.

PS: The course in Loreto has more birds, foxes, lizards, bobcats, and coyotes than I've seen anywhere else in Baja C in more than 50 years of looking.

Sharksbaja - 8-1-2005 at 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tehag

PS: The course in Loreto has more birds, foxes, lizards, bobcats, and coyotes than I've seen anywhere else in Baja C in more than 50 years of looking.

And you think that's natural. Because there is no cover you can see them. In their natural habitat you won't. Does that mean anything to you. Think hard.

"Does that mean anything to you. Think hard."

jrbaja - 8-1-2005 at 12:08 PM

Careful Sharks, the coop group will accuse you of scaring away the newbies :lol:

thinking

jerry - 8-6-2005 at 10:28 AM

well seems to me that these animals are here because they like it there not fenced in. it works for them the preditors are here because there game is here all must prefer it to the vast desert?? or why would they be there?? im sure some do gooder can come up with a reasone but the animals just wont listen ?perhaps we will have to make a reserve out of it??
maybe fence them off of there playground?? for there
own good?? maybe build a zoo??
Everywhere one steps was someones elses favotite place in times past so who has the most right?? the person that owns it now good thing dead people dont b-tch
let it bee, let it bee ee, let it bee ee ee. let it be

Great idea someone thinking??

jerry - 8-6-2005 at 09:06 PM

i think you should copy wright your idea of making planters out of golf courses the more obsticals the better the course i cant believe i havent cought some flack for Thinking on this thread. have a good one

thinkin

jerry - 8-6-2005 at 10:40 PM

could that be the wild life that we been por tec ting?? let me ponder

Well that lady golfer got my attention!

Sharksbaja - 8-7-2005 at 12:25 AM

Let me explain one inherent problem that arises with coastal located courses. Over eons Baja or any place for that matter has existed and evolved with a host of user animals.
Depending on local and in this case I only include the oceanside developments. Local dictates the inhabitant species that dwell in this proximity.
In other words; the native plants and animals that would live naturally here without mans' encroachment.
Ok, you bulldoze the desert and displace the critters while you green up. Next the little critters come seeking your green grass, then comes the animals to catch the critters.
What do think happens next? Thats' right! People come along and do what? Chase em off what else.
Don't worry though, the animals will disappear completely from the area once all the adjacent lands are gobbled up, not greened up. Not a good practice in my opinion, but neityer are condos. :no:

all thing equal

jerry - 8-7-2005 at 12:12 PM

well by your senerio sharks then id say that you best tear down your restrant its on a bay and the whole area is paved or covered with building plow it ut plant back native plants?? maybe the native animals will come back?? like the sealoins and seal laying on the docks
now doesnt that sound silly?? and i still think that mans need must come first im not preachen that we should exterminate anything but if its going to be equil then tear it all down stop it all and we can then fight over the caves to live in oops cant because non of us are native just gona have to kill eachother off then the world will be perfect again
inm not meaning to be offensive to anyone but i do have a problem with the attatude "i got mine screw you have a good one

good lord man...

Sharksbaja - 8-7-2005 at 01:53 PM

that's right bro I came here 150 years ago and laid down planks so we could get to our beloved golf courses. :lol:

the only ones offended are the animals and the people who have learned anything in the last 1oo years about land use.
Golf courses ARE NOT necessary for animals or humans to survive, are they? The working Bayfront here is.

bajablue - 8-7-2005 at 02:44 PM

Like I said earlier, 2,000 miles of coastline and maye 7 coarses on the water and maybe a total of 18 holes actually on the water in all of Baja, do the math.... Everytime i play golf, I see plenty of critters running around. Not to mention all the jobs it brings to the area.. You can make the same argument for people who fish and to all the off-roading being done in Baja. All of these things effect the environment and the natural habitat of Baja equaly. ..Golfing, fishing, off-roading and building a restaurant on the bay at the end of the day, are all doing the same thing, bringing different pleasures to different people.. We can all have are own opinion's on what we think is "for the better" of Baja, but let's not be hypocritical..
Go to go, I am on the tee!!!!

jerry - 8-7-2005 at 03:07 PM

guess i could say that a golf coarse is defenatly nessary for a golfer
what need is there for a working bayfront if not for people to exploit the sea?? and even then 90% of whats at the bay front isnt nessary for it to work and it and your restarnt should be moved to the middel of nowhere no reason on gods green earth to be on a bayfront except thats where the people like to be just like the setting for a golf coarse ALL THINGS EQUAL
EVERYONE IS EQUAL EXCEPT THAT SOME OF US ARE MORE EQUAL THEN OTHERS B.S. anyone who want to tell others what they can do with thier land can buy it have a good one

Sharksbaja - 8-7-2005 at 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerry
guess i could say that a golf coarse is defenatly nessary for a golfer
what need is there for a working bayfront if not for people to exploit the sea?? and even then 90% of whats at the bay front isnt nessary for it to work and it and your restarnt should be moved to the middel of nowhere no reason on gods green earth to be on a bayfront except thats where the people like to be just like the setting for a golf coarse ALL THINGS EQUAL
EVERYONE IS EQUAL EXCEPT THAT SOME OF US ARE MORE EQUAL THEN OTHERS B.S. anyone who want to tell others what they can do with thier land can buy it have a good one

Soooooo, you thinks people that fish and come ashore are in the same boat as the golf course developers? :lol:

Not really a good parallel my friend. You should see how "other" places in the world look with all their golf courses. Of course the Japanese could tell you it's not always a sound investment. But what they left would surely make you proud. I doubt the Hawaiian peolple share your sentiments. But hey, who are they?

[Edited on 8-7-2005 by Sharksbaja]

equal

jerry - 8-7-2005 at 04:29 PM

the bayfront developers are the same as the golf coarse developer no different its all development one no more worthy then the other
man has created a lot of imbalances in this world and it sure isnt going to be cured by the attude that my cause is more nobel then yours or blaming the other guy .there are no purests just hipocrits .so ;let it bee. let it bee ee. let it bee ee ee. let it bee. if your gona sting someone just dont let it be me :lol:

have a good one

jerry - 8-7-2005 at 04:45 PM

p.s. there are a lot more bayfront development that are failing then golf coarse and if it wasnt for the turstesa scendary use they would allmost all be bone yards. not that it matters im just saying that everyone passions in life is equal and should be protected. have a good one

OK, Jerry, Come Clean !

MrBillM - 8-7-2005 at 05:03 PM

Are these posts an attempt on your part to dethrone the current leaders competing for the Nomad Spelling-Impaired Award ?

bajablue - 8-7-2005 at 05:09 PM

the scary thing is, wrong spelling and all, he is correct........

jerry - 8-7-2005 at 05:33 PM

nada on the spelling im sure ill get it hands down you should here me studder :lol:

Baja

jrbaja - 8-7-2005 at 06:27 PM

From Jerry;

"what bothers me here is the attude if i dont like it it must be bad
but if i do like it, it must be alright"

This is called having an opinion. And believe it or not, there was this "free" country where people were allowed to have differing ones and discuss them openly without being attacked by fanatics. That was quite some time ago though.
Mexico fortunately is still like that!

Which is why,

"a tourist in another country is messing up the culture??" You hit the nail on the head on this one. Their culture is disappearing with the rising costs of everything because of tourism, development, and the foreigners setting up their enclaves.

As far as the golf courses go, they employ a very few Mexican people at low wages, they use far more water than any other development without producing anything valuable for the benefit of all rather than a select few.

The Baja peninsula is a unique, extremely fragile environment. It surprises me that so many gringos don't seem to understand the concept of protecting at least a few "special" places on the planet.

Especially from those who for some reason or other are on a Baja related message board. Unless of course they are the P-nche gringo type who doesn't seem to care much about anything besides their own obnoxious selves when they visit foreign countries. :light:

[Edited on 8/8/2005 by jrbaja]

here we go again

bajablue - 8-7-2005 at 06:56 PM

Now JR, we are sitting here having a nice debate and you have to tweak it up just a notch with the "P-nche gringo and the "obnoxious selves".. You just can't help yourself, can you?.. Come on bro, it's Sunday......

bajalou - 8-7-2005 at 07:17 PM

As far as Baja is concerned, I havent seen any US gunboats off any of the coasts I have visited. If the Mexican people and government which has had this land for the last few hundred years didn't want the developments - there wouldn't be any. They have been the "willing sellers" that have allowed the development and changes to occure.

bajablue - 8-7-2005 at 07:48 PM

I agree with you that region is a very special and unique place, but tourism and development fuel the region. That is totally untrue that golf developments employ very few Mexican people at low wages..
My whole point on this argument is, there really isn't that many golf courses in Baja and the majority are in Cabo which I know is already over developed and over ran by what you call "P-nche gringos". I"ll tell you what, go ask any local down in Cabo or any where else in Baja if they want all the gringos to take there golf developments and tourism and go home.. That will give you the true answer. At the end of the day, "excess" is never good. But I highly doubt Baja will turn into a 2,000 mile golf course.....

P-nche gringos

jrbaja - 8-7-2005 at 08:00 PM

are obnoxious! Simple. Don't know who it applies to on here but if you truly appreciate the peninsula and it's people, the title wouldn't apply to you Blue. One less is always good!

bajablue - 8-7-2005 at 08:29 PM

I eat well, drink well and I like to travel, so i will take that as a compliment.. How can I argue with 4000 post.. Buenas noches...

Dave - 8-7-2005 at 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
As far as the golf courses go, they employ a very few Mexican people at low wages, they use far more water than any other development without producing anything valuable for the benefit of all rather than a select few.

Let's not single out golf courses. Most Mexican people are employed at low wages, mainly by other Mexican people.

but does an Aristocratic sport....

Sharksbaja - 8-7-2005 at 10:56 PM

like golf that uses a large amount of land and water for an elite few belong here or there? Kinda like marinas. I hear it costs a lot to play golf or bring a yacht down and moor it.

Jerry. do you know what an aristocrat is??

Case closed

Dave - 8-8-2005 at 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
like golf that uses a large amount of land and water for an elite few belong here or there?

Unfortunately, as evidenced by the horrid play of the average golfer, no one is excluded if they can afford the green fees. And one could argue that if "they" were few and far between, golf courses would not continue to be built.

Flogging a Dead Horse

MrBillM - 8-8-2005 at 11:27 AM

Talk about an exercise in futility. Everything has been said on this issue, but it keeps going.

The Golf Courses are here to stay and there will be lots more coming. The affluent Love to play golf and are willing to pay outrageous fees to do so. The Gold will always rule in cases like this. Look at the Coachella Valley. Palm Springs to Indio is filled with courses, but more are built every year. No complaints or appeals are going to slow the building.

I remember reading an article when the Japanese first started building Maquiladoras in Tijuana and beyond. The first thing the Japanese execs wanted to know was where all the golf courses were.

Like this?

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 12:40 PM

For some Sr. Bill, what is happening in Baja is a lot more interesting than the size of "your guns". To those of us who live here, all issues are of importance.
I know many of you don't like hearing what I have to say about the actions of "ma fellow amerikuns" down here but it also is a major part of Baja these days. Same as golf courses.
Personally, I like hearing most all ideas whether pro or con on everything pertaining to this peninsula. Especially if it is backed up by individual, first hand knowledge, rather than surmised from a few vacations here but, it's all interesting if not accurate.

Bob and Susan - 8-8-2005 at 01:27 PM

How do you play it if a ball falls by that trap??? :tumble:

You get relief...

The Gull - 8-8-2005 at 01:52 PM

That falls under the category of hazards created by animals, so you get a free drop.

Also, to all those who subscribe to the NIMBY (Not In My BackYard) syndrome, the meek shall not inherit the earth. The Golden Rule always wins.

Personally, I believe we should return to a time that all of us would agree had no "human interference", but that time passed with four-story tall lizards dying off.

Let's all try to rid ourselves of these human burdens on the environment.

Dear hypocrites, save the coast, save the animals, save the world, log off your computer, recycle it and die as you eat roots & berries that you forage as you shiver to death in the dark.

Personally, I don't have time for all that earth-saving BS, I have a tee time on my local coastal course. I will drink lots of beer thinking of some of you and while on the course, I will be relieving myself of all that beer burden, thinking of the others on this board.

Thanks for clarifing my post.

Sharksbaja - 8-8-2005 at 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull
That falls under the category of hazards created by animals, so you get a free drop.

Also, to all those who subscribe to the NIMBY (Not In My BackYard) syndrome, the meek shall not inherit the earth. The Golden Rule always wins.

Personally, I believe we should return to a time that all of us would agree had no "human interference", but that time passed with four-story tall lizards dying off.

Let's all try to rid ourselves of these human burdens on the environment.

Dear hypocrites, save the coast, save the animals, save the world, log off your computer, recycle it and die as you eat roots & berries that you forage as you shiver to death in the dark.

Personally, I don't have time for all that earth-saving BS, I have a tee time on my local coastal course. I will drink lots of beer thinking of some of you and while on the course, I will be relieving myself of all that beer burden, thinking of the others on this board.

Spoken like a true Aristocrat

Love that word "hypocrit" only that applies if I built it. :yes:

Same with golfers, I don't blame them. It's an opinion not based on sport preference it's an opinion based on circumstantial evidence.
Your retort however is based entirely on your love for the sport which makes you extremely biased. Pretty much the same as the others who, for all there wisdom can't see let alone agree with an opinion juxtaposed to their entertainment. Who really gives a crabs patooey anyway......... Maybe the crabs?

Still Flogging, I see.

MrBillM - 8-8-2005 at 02:20 PM

The point is that there isn't an IDEA or complaint by ANYONE here that will have the least bit effect on the outcome of this issue. You can LIKE hearing these ideas all day long, but it doesn't mean a "Damn" thing. You have no power or influence over whether or not those courses or anything else are built.

If you want to trade ideas among yourselves, fine, but you might as well be talking about what kind of weather you'd like to see tomorrow or where you LIKE the Sun to come up in the morning and in what part of the sky.

Beats listening to who

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 02:22 PM

has what calibers by a long shot! :light:

hey wait a minute...

Sharksbaja - 8-8-2005 at 02:26 PM

I thought I was enjoying the whining :lol:

Caliber Conversation

MrBillM - 8-8-2005 at 02:31 PM

That would be the one way little Ol you could change world events. In fact, the only way in which one individual could create significant change.

Abraham Lincoln, William McKinley, JFK, Mahatma Gandhi, Anwar Sadat. One man was able to change world events in each case.

It probably wouldn't work on golf course developers, though.

Maybe the Gull

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 02:37 PM

could aim some of that used beer strategically and give them the general idea. It works on border patrol agents ! :lol:

Who cares???

Baja Bernie - 8-8-2005 at 02:43 PM

Been watching this post for a while and decided to read it today. Not being a golfer I could care less about golf courses.

I do wonder if this is the best use of a very limited supply of water. Perhaps recycling 'crap to courses' could be the answer--and someone could sell more of that purple pipe. Yea! Instead of a trap you would have to watch out for the crap. :lol:

They are nice for the bunny rabbits--and the snakes love Baja Mar.

saving something important

Sharksbaja - 8-8-2005 at 02:43 PM

actually I think "saving the beer" would be a priority for some. To hell with the coast.

I think the snakes

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 02:46 PM

love the bunny wabbitts more than they love Baja Mar itself!

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 03:36 PM

Bill and Gull, you have hit it right down the middle of the fairway and you can be in my foursome anytime!! Shark, aren't those "critters" on your Booya Base plate?? I guess I just don't see the difference in what you think is a pleasure for yourself and what is to others. Another fact, golf coarses use reclaimed water and desalinization plants..

Let's see here

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 03:41 PM

eating at a restaurant or playing a round of golf. Yep, great comparison. Everyone plays golf right? :no:

Blue, could you give some examples of Desalinated courses in Baja? Or is this like getting info from armchair golf gurus?

[Edited on 8/8/2005 by jrbaja]

Golf

tehag - 8-8-2005 at 04:15 PM

Loreto golf course uses nothing but recycled water everywhere but in the bathrooms and cart wash. All 4 lakes are recycled water. All irrigation, recycled.
And snakes do quite well there swallowing bunnies, thank you very much.

Good shot Tehag !!

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 04:26 PM

Got anymore?

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 05:01 PM

JR, Shark was all high and mighty about saving the critters. I am just saying, whats the difference between the ones in the ocean and the ones on land.. Oh, we don't eat the ones on land...I know it's probably a stretch, but just stessing the point.. We all do damage to baja in different ways. If we all want to keep it nice, technically we shouldn't even be driving through it. AGAIN, there are a million times worse things being done in baja, other than the few golf courses that have been made. Just because you guys don't play, or understand the game, it's easy to sit there and say it's a bad thing. Your points are well taken, I just think there are bigger fish to fry....

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 05:32 PM

here is one for ya. I was probably a little too close...

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 05:35 PM

photo didn't attach, I guess it was to bid a file. How do ishrink it and what is the maximum size??

50 kb

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 06:05 PM

go into image in photoshop or another program and reduce size. That's my computer illiterate version anyway.

bajalou - 8-8-2005 at 06:08 PM

For a tiny program made to reduce photos without all the hastle and learning of Photoshop, for me anyway, go to www.jdwcox.com For free he has the easiest to use I have ever seen. I think it might be less than 50kb - 49.99kb ?

:cool:

Sharksbaja - 8-8-2005 at 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajablue
Bill and Gull, you have hit it right down the middle of the fairway and you can be in my foursome anytime!! Shark, aren't those "critters" on your Booya Base plate?? I guess I just don't see the difference in what you think is a pleasure for yourself and what is to others. Another fact, golf coarses use reclaimed water and desalinization plants..

It seems ludicrous to compare farmed clams and harvested dungeness crab to golf course fauna.

One thing about dragging the planet with heavy equipment. It ruins the seafloor as much or worse than the land. But because the nearshore transition area is so minisule in width it must maintaimn an even greater amount of conservation.

I saw it happen from scratch where I grew up. I see nothing beneficial from coastal golf courses except for the pleasures of few. If you saw the evolving destruction up close and personal along CA. shores maybe you would have a different spin on all this......................or maybe not.

My whole issue was about the effects courses have on the area. Sure, they will spring up and so will a ton of everything else.
I think real estate prices are astronomical next to the courses
generally. This usually signals a domino effect, development wise. That thay alone gobble up so much beachfront leaves a huge real estate market willing to cozy up. Pretty soon the whole area gets filled in and the courses property value increases proportionally. Not always however but I would guess the developers have very deep pockets and they can't lose, especially with so many rich golfers with so much time on their hands.

i think i'm starting to understand...

eetdrt88 - 8-8-2005 at 06:22 PM

this is bad :no:

and this is really bad..

eetdrt88 - 8-8-2005 at 06:23 PM

and this is just beyond belief

eetdrt88 - 8-8-2005 at 06:24 PM

:lol:

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 07:11 PM

Shark, I hear ya. I am just having a hard time putting my hands around this. So what you are saying is, no one should be grading lots, to build homes, restaurants and hotels any where on the coast in Baja? Or only golf coarses? I am not trying to drag this on, I am just trying to get to where you are coming from.

Bob and Susan - 8-8-2005 at 07:16 PM

eetdrt88..if the ball drops in "THAT TRAP"...how do you play it??? :lol:

The Gull - 8-8-2005 at 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob and Susan
eetdrt88..if the ball drops in "THAT TRAP"...how do you play it??? :lol:

I would use a wedge with a lot of loft.

If failing in that, I would open up the face and try a "face shot". Got it?

No way would I risk my putter in this kind of undulating condition.

Sharksbaja, go get laid. Next you will be complaining that the dope growers and vineyards in Oregon are ruining the flora and fauna of your state. Jeeeezz, whine some more.

:lol:

[Edited on 8-9-2005 by The Gull]

Bob and Susan - 8-8-2005 at 07:52 PM

:lol:

The Gull - 8-8-2005 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
For a tiny program made to reduce photos without all the hastle and learning of Photoshop, for me anyway, go to www.jdwcox.com For free he has the easiest to use I have ever seen. I think it might be less than 50kb - 49.99kb ?

:cool:

Is that is right address?

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 08:11 PM

Gull, I am glad you said it, I am just a junior. I didn't want to cross any lines...
I am still laughing...
By the way, a soft Cleveland 60 wedge, would be perfect for that lie....

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 08:42 PM

here is that photo, thanks for the help JR

No problem Blue

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 09:02 PM

But, according to your last few posts, is that you in the picture?

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 09:09 PM

usted nunca sabe.....

bajalou - 8-8-2005 at 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gull

Quote:

Is that is right address?

No here is the right one http://www.jdmcox.com/

He has a couple of other pretty neat programs also.

Just went there to makesure. Sorry about that.

:biggrin:

[Edited on 8-9-2005 by bajalou]

Careful Dudes

jrbaja - 8-8-2005 at 09:30 PM

You'll upset the girlie boys and chase everyone else away according to the latest clucking. :lol:

Sharksbaja - 8-8-2005 at 09:33 PM

Maybe something about being born on exactly the same day dictates my Nomad fate :lol:

and I hear you....

Sharksbaja - 8-8-2005 at 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajablue
Shark, I hear ya. I am just having a hard time putting my hands around this. So what you are saying is, no one should be grading lots, to build homes, restaurants and hotels any where on the coast in Baja? Or only golf coarses? I am not trying to drag this on, I am just trying to get to where you are coming from.

Let me give you an analogy:

We have this elk trail that skirts our property. It is well known that Elk and for that matter many animals establish paths and trails on which to move from one area to another on a regular cycle.
This is necessary and fundamental for a wide range of species in order to propagate and/or feed. Sometimes weather drives animals to take distinct paths.
The elk in this case are very stubborn and will do anything to continue there migration be it a logging clearcut or a mini-ranch.
As i have been witness to the changes here and the annual sight from our window of these magnificent animals it's testimony of their need.
Surely in Mexico it is different than CA or OR but these corridors are more vital for a variety of species for propagation and existence and is not well publicized.
It does not behoove a deveoper to locate his golf course 100 yds or so inland. It would make sense in Baja however to leave "wildlife corridors" or natural land adjacent to any new ones.

On the other point. I do believe coastal tracts should be broken up allowing breathing room.

I know, if it were my property would I like it? No. But these issues are not even considered by zoners. who is the god who delves out the yes or no. Hell, I don't know.

I kow, I know screw the elk. Or at least shoot the stupid animals for grazing in the clear-cuts.

Sharksbaja - 8-8-2005 at 09:42 PM

Oh, by the way... I only kept posting replys so I could top 1000.

Suckers, :spingrin:

hehehehehehehehe :lol:

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 10:16 PM

Nice analogy and that makes a lot of sense, but you still didn't answer my question. Does this pertain to only golf courses? If someone puts there lot on that same bluff, is that wrong? I just don't get the "shot across the bow" at only the golf courses.. We both agree that excess in anything, is never good, so we got that going for us...

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 10:18 PM

by the way, congrats on 1000. I have a lot of arguements to go and I don't think I have that many, other than golf and insults to others.......

I really think it pertains to all

Sharksbaja - 8-8-2005 at 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajablue
Nice analogy and that makes a lot of sense, but you still didn't answer my question. Does this pertain to only golf courses? If someone puts there lot on that same bluff, is that wrong? I just don't get the "shot across the bow" at only the golf courses.. We both agree that excess in anything, is never good, so we got that going for us...

Some coastal lands should always be set aside just like they do here in Oregon. Our extensive State Parks & Rec beach area leave plenty of room for ALL to enjoy.

I swear this is the

bajablue - 8-8-2005 at 10:49 PM

last thing I say on this.. There are over 90 golf courses in San Diego County alone and in Baja, about 10, so I think we are all going to be happy....

Sharksbaja - 8-8-2005 at 11:15 PM

It really is personal issue with me and I have been involved legally and directly involved in the determination of coastal land access involving State laws therefore protecting my "right of access to public domain" in which I did the general public a service. Today there is public access where once it was fenced. Good for you and me. This not necessarily a good thing anymore however as far as stress on the tidepools etc.. Especially when the place is near millions of people.

I think this is thread dead on the vine too. Gnight. Thanx for hearin'.

The Gull - 8-9-2005 at 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
It really is personal issue with me and I have been involved legally and directly involved in the determination of coastal land access involving State laws therefore protecting my "right of access to public domain" in which I did the general public a service. Today there is public access where once it was fenced. Good for you and me. This not necessarily a good thing anymore however as far as stress on the tidepools etc.. Especially when the place is near millions of people.

I think this is thread dead on the vine too. Gnight. Thanx for hearin'.

So what! "Fore!, playing through."

I'll bet none of those wasted access to beach areas stopped the people in Bandon, Ore from building world class golf courses and the people who own homes there love the price inflation. Wealth building is such a good pastime. It is almost as good of a time as getting laid. Shark, you should try either of them and take a break from saving the earth. That is unless you are too busy patting yourself on the back.

:no:

I've always wanted to

jrbaja - 8-9-2005 at 08:49 AM

hit a hole in one into the Old Faithful geyser. But for some reason, they wouldn't let me. Wonder why?

Speaking of front yards,

jrbaja - 8-9-2005 at 12:53 PM

Seems like a good time for my speed bump story.

When Carol and I were first going out, we used to stay at Quinta del Mar occasionally with friends. One night, we returned late and stayed in my van because the door was locked to the house.
This house was about 3 blocks from the beach and public restroom. I woke up in the morning with a serious need to go to the bathroom but the house was still locked.
So I tried to P-nche it while walking to the restroom. I made it almost there and tripped over a speed bump and that was the end of my P-ncheing it. Down my grey Aftco fishing shorts and into the street it went.
So I go to the restrooms and clean up as best I can and start walking back to the van. By this time, Carol is walking down and starts complaining about the dogs doing their business right in the street. :lol:

I get back to the van in hysterics and lock the doors so I can change, clean up and get away with it. But, Carol gets back and starts about the dogs again and I can't control myself. I tell her that it wasn't the dogs that did that but you know who. :lol:

Well, after our uncontrollable laughter, she helped me out with my "chituation" and we are still together after 17 years. And we still tell the speed bump story. :saint:

Sharksbaja - 8-9-2005 at 12:58 PM

:yes:

Good story. It's amazing what a woman will put up with. 23 yrs here of bliss and still not flaming. We do have strong opinions tho. Gotta go get laid now.

bajablue - 8-9-2005 at 01:00 PM

from tree hugging to fecal matter, this is good entertainment...
I may have to use that story one day....

Just don't step in it!

jrbaja - 8-9-2005 at 01:01 PM

RJM - 8-9-2005 at 03:50 PM

The three critical factors for all wildlife are: water, air and habitat. When a golf course comes into an area it will ruin some habitat that was critical for a VERY FEW wildlife species (because of the land disturbance) that could exist on scarce water supplies in coastal or desert areas. However, the water that a golf course brings attracts and holds animals that could never exist on the water starved areas before. Most animals especially in desert areas are nocturnal and will frequent the edges of courses at night and establish new homes in great quantities around golf courses that were marginal wildlife habitat before the golf course. Most golf course have to deal with wildlife problem of some sort for the rest of their existence. In the US, these golf course operators have to apply for special permits from state and federal agencies to deal with their wildlife problems because most golf courses are a wildlife magnet. This is extremely true in a desert environment.

Next time you make your drive through hundreds and hundreds of miles of Baja desert and farmland, try to convince yourself that a few hundred acres of green water logged habitat is bad for animals.
The houses, roads and parking lots that come with a new course is a different story and discussion.
Generally, golf courses are a lot better for wildlife than just about any other type of development. Some could argue that they are actually a benefit to wildlife. When a new course is going to be constructed, wildlife and natural areas should be incorporated into the plan and management should understand that wildlife problems are a fact of doing business and they should not be so quick to want to destroy native vegetation that can be left as wildlife habitat. In other words new golf courses should be designed to benefit wildlife. Owners should also not be so quick to kill problem animals or destroy nests that they have attracted.

bajablue - 8-9-2005 at 03:58 PM

Well said RJM...

time to kiss and make up....

eetdrt88 - 8-9-2005 at 06:49 PM

heres a pic of sharks and gull at their make-up party :lol:

You make a good argument RJM

Sharksbaja - 8-9-2005 at 07:31 PM

and didn't have to get nasty, thanks.

Sharksbaja - 8-9-2005 at 07:48 PM

you started it

The Gull - 8-9-2005 at 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
While I have never been a big fan of golf. It may be because I never grew to accel at the sport, not playing more than a few times. Always I have wondered who these players were.

I grew up catching glimpses on TV of the elite experts vieing for title at Pebble Beach or on Maui. What spectacular views from those places.

Where I grew up in P.V. we had fields of garbanzo beans and strawberries. We actually had to cross these bountiful crrops evreyday on our way down to surf or fish or dive. What fun we had. For many years.

My love so strong for the lush tidal pools and ocean I mounted historic causes and helpe to forestall coastal development.

I had already seen what was happening statewide to oure shores.
As Skeet mentioned back a ways" stand back and watch it happen. You can't stop it. True, but we managed to slow it's inevitable doom.
Too bad, the area so prolific I did a tomography and bio study for my thesis.

Not any more though. Not much sealife there now. Very sad for me personally. Hey, but theres a golf couse up there on the bluff now, with a big wide path to the rocks below.

Won't find abs here anymore.

---------------

Here is the problem as I see it . Golf courses built on the ocean shores are problematic if not conpletely ill-conceived.
THe construction in the areas adjacent to beaches is illogical in many respects.
Biological interference with many species and the land pedator, forager interface. Nesting and biodiversity is typically higher along the beachheads. Nearshore flora can be very fragile and golf courses eliminate a perfect arena for many plants and animals.
The courses afford easy access for multitudes of people.
But only a few own the developments generally. Other nearby developments will spring up filling in any adjacent land.
Why can't we all not enjoy the natural transition between the ocean and the land.

Of course water consupmtion is a another huge issue.

Golf belongs inland.

No...brainchild, you started it. Now back up what you say with facts.

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