BajaNomad - Not being a victim

Not being a victim

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 12:42 PM

Some thoughts on moving to a foreign country.

1. Learn the language at least a little.
2. Don't move to a gringo enclave where thieves like to prey
3. Don't move to a city
4. Meet and talk to the local people
5. Show them you are either a good or bad person. (they can tell)
6. Don't complain
7. Don't try to change anything your first week or year
there.
8. Make a friend
9. Don't think that you are better than them for whatever silly reasons. You are not.
10. Learn from the locals and don't try to teach them your ways
11. Mind your own business
12. Don't tell them you like george bush!
13. Respect everyone, no matter thier appearance or social status
14. Mind your own business
15. When you are established/respected, work together with the community to make things happen for the benefit of all, not just you.
16. Mind your own business

JR---

Barry A. - 8-3-2005 at 01:30 PM

I take exception to #12----------most of the Mexicans I know, both south of, and north of, the border respect President George Bush, and if fact like him. It appears to me that only those who want to be "on the dole" that don't like him-----I try not to associate with those types, both north and south of, the border.

(you just had to include #12 didn't you, on your otherwise excellent list.) (-:

I totally agree with all the others.

David K - 8-3-2005 at 01:34 PM

Here in Spanish speaking Southern California, the 'Viva Bush' stickers were very widely seen... Mexicans love children, and have little respect for pro-abortion John Kerry and his party.

JZ - 8-3-2005 at 02:12 PM

"Don't move to a city"

Please define what you mean by city.

Well, look what popped

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 03:09 PM

out of the bush! :lol:

Well, most of the Mexicans I know can't stand the guy and consider him the same as Bin Laden. Or whether his equal Kerry is any better or not.
And considering the Mexicans feelings about war, I don't believe any of you bush supporters when you say they like him. But, this ain't about that.

As far as a "city" goes, anywhere where there is a majority of foreigners be they Mexican, gringo Hindu or martian who congregate for work, theft, action, who knows what.

In this case (Baja) I would consider basically all the areas along the coast where people congregate, including Bahia Concepcion despite the fact there aren't any major buildings or work. I guess this could be called a "temporary city".
One of the first things to happen when there is development is crime, right after the realtors. :light:

JZ - 8-3-2005 at 03:40 PM

Okay, under that definition I disagree with that one, but all the rest are good.

If you said big city, party town, or border town, I'd have agreed.

Ken Cooke - 8-3-2005 at 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Here in Spanish speaking Southern California, the 'Viva Bush' stickers were very widely seen... Mexicans love children, and have little respect for pro-abortion John Kerry and his party.

John Kerry is Catholic and is personally against abortion. He only supports the right for a woman to make her own choice. I've read up on this many times over the past year.

For JZ

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 04:53 PM

check out the previous posts regarding theft in Bahia Concepcion, Loreto, Mulege, El Rosario, and most anywhere else I am describing, and then get back to me! :lol:

And, this post isn't about politics, David just can't control himself when bush is mentioned. I think it's because he went for so long without any!

ha!! JR - you knucklehead!

capt. mike - 8-3-2005 at 04:54 PM

no. 12 proves that the representative statistical sample of mexicans you seem to know do not concur with the majority, therefore your view is myopic and invalid against the mean population.

You gots to do a little better research amigo before you expound as you're want to do.....if you want to gain more credibility with the constant treatises.

but keep trying, it's comical when you set off the others who have time and energy to get into it with you.....me, i take none of this internet drivel seriously! hahahaha :coolup:

Baja Bernie - 8-3-2005 at 04:58 PM

Who gives a "F"---- I spent 40 years down there and all I practiced was honesty, fainess, and friendliness.

Calmate Bernie

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 05:07 PM

That was then, I'm talking about now. And many who still live down here and are thinking about moving here probably giva a F---. And , shame on you.

Who gives a F? tsk tsk tsk!

And, dealing with Mexicans from all aspects of life, who live in Mexico rather than the americanized ones yall are underpaying, I still disagee about their feelings regarding the bush.

Mike Supino - 8-3-2005 at 05:20 PM

You could probably count on one hand the number of countries that agree with our current political position.

Just a small point of fact JR...

bigzaggin - 8-3-2005 at 05:21 PM

numbers 11, 14 and 16 negate your own list.

A wise man once said, "Don't preach about not preaching."

:smug:

I employ this emoticon out of pity as I've never seen him used before.

Bruce R Leech - 8-3-2005 at 06:28 PM

Jrbaja I think you forgot one

# 17 don't feed the chickens. :lol:

Cyndarouh - 8-3-2005 at 06:37 PM

Bruce, You funny man, Jr just feed the chickens!!!
JR our rancher freinds are all for Bush. I think it depends on what people do and how they make a living. I my self don't discuss politics.

capn.sharky - 8-3-2005 at 07:30 PM

Funny how we all come away with different ideas. On George Bush, and I voted for him, the Mexicans I talk with think he is a crazy war monger and wants to take over the world. I try to avoid political conversations in Mexico as it is a way to be sent home---never to return. If asked, I will give a watered down version of what I think. My only exception is when I am asked about the French. I have no use for them or their stinkin' country. Bunch of ungrateful Frogs. Sharky

rpleger - 8-3-2005 at 07:35 PM

Sharky..

Guess your not going to Tahiti soon.

i have a feelin that alot of people...

eetdrt88 - 8-3-2005 at 07:40 PM

are going to have a big problem with #6....most people i know like to complain and actually go out of their way to find things to complain about... i think it goes hand in hand with the George Bush era :lol:

Nikon - 8-3-2005 at 07:47 PM

Hi folks, just checking in after a long hiatus; I like to see who takes the bait when JR throws fireworks into the barnyard. Although my grandson keeps me pretty busy these days, I'm free tonight as he is off with his parents.

I couldn't help noticing how quickly The Self Promoter (although I cannot claim originality for the moniker, I do find it appropriate) swallowed the "Bush" bait, with his clear recollection of having seen "Viva Bush" bumper stickers throughout "Spanish Speaking Southern California" (having left Southern California two years ago after eighteen years, and getting by on the english language, even in my local carniceria, I'm surprised to hear that the region has switched to spanish so quickly).

I will presume that any readers are aware that the highest percentage of Bush votes attributed to Hispanics is 44%, a figure in much debate, does not constitute a majority, so as to how it indicates Hispanics are behind Bush is lost on me.

It must be appreciated how difficult a choice supporting Bush can be for a Mexican immigrant; on one hand he weakly espoused a legal immigrant worker program, yes, cynics like myself will say that was before the election when the effort for Hispanic votes seemed like a good idea would be to open the border, but hey, the guy did hold out some hope, didn't he?

On the other hand, any Hispanic not in a comatose condition for the past two plus years knows that the blood of his brethren will have to be shed on foreign soil in disproportionate numbers to the white race, to satisfy the bloodlust, excuse me, there I go again, I mean, to bring democracy to the "region".

So what's a poor Hispanic voter to do? Well, it might seem more likely that Cu?ado Antonio will be admitted to the U.S. and bring the sister and sobrinos to enjoy the good life, than the possibility that the fourteen year old son will have to go off and die, as payback for a first world standard of living. But is it really? If our Hispanic friend stops to consider, we've been making enemies faster than we can kill them, he may not view his son's enlistment and deployment as too far fetched.

Be all that as it may, please don't try and put forth the Republican Party as standard bearers for immigrants from the third world. I mean, give me a break.

I have no way of knowing what was in John Kerry's heart re the abortion issue, but if it's the law of the land as decreed by the Supreme Court, how could it be wrong? Weren't they the same body that elected the President?

Ken Cooke - 8-3-2005 at 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikon
I have no way of knowing what was in John Kerry's heart re the abortion issue, but if it's the law of the land as decreed by the Supreme Court, how could it be wrong? Weren't they the same body that elected the President?

Well said... :light:

valla al fin

fdt - 8-3-2005 at 08:50 PM

Not to offend the few friends I have (from way back) but I

have to agree w/JR on #12 as a mexican. I, as a commoner or just a citizen talking, living and simply conversing with others of my kind (mexican citizens). WE DO NOT LIKE, CAN NOT SWALLOW, GWB! We do not agree with his politics.

fdt----

Barry A. - 8-3-2005 at 09:00 PM

That is fine, and I am sure you are right concerning you and your friends. Still, the stats say that up to 40% of hispanics in the USA do support JWB.

We (all of us) usually gravitate towards those that agee with us on important subjects.

Case in point-----I spent 5 weeks in Italy prior to two weeks ago, and I talked to litterally 100's of Italians----most (not all) agreed with me and supported what GWB was trying to do. Of course, some just looked at me in horror, but not most. We often hear what we want to hear--------I am sure that this is true with me, tho I try to keep an open mind.

Only time will tell, I guess.

Dave - 8-3-2005 at 09:17 PM

I've lived in Mexico through all of GWB's presidency and I have never, ever met one Mexican who supports him. Of course, the same thing could be said of Fox. :biggrin:

It Takes All Kinds of People....& Tortillas

lindsay - 8-3-2005 at 09:20 PM

For about a week, I haven't posted because we have been busy here at the school and I also smashed an index finger in the car door...still a nice black and blue color but now I'm up for typing again so here goes...

I have stayed out of some posts because my own personality, for better or worse, is to avoid confrontations and be the diplomatic one....JR's post remind me of how it's good to have someone confront you in a style that is not like your own and sometimes really ponder where you stand on something whether you agree with him or not.

I learned this recently when talking to a father whose daughter attends my kid's preschool. We were at a local park in La Jolla and as the kids were playing he told me that his family was relocating to NYC because of a work opportunity with a cultural organization. He told me how excited he was to return to a big city with all its offerings and asked me why I liked SD? His "in your face" style pressed me to really explain myself and I realized that I had to think it over and give him some concrete reasons. We had an interesting conversation about what satisfies people in life and I respected him for his ability to make me think about these issues. His personality is totally different from mine and when I first got to know him over a year ago, my initial impression was that he was pushy and obnoxious. He would strongly express his politics and ,in general, was too intense for my tastes....but over time I realized that he was really talented and had also produced some truly wonderful cultural exchanges between SD and TJ youth groups through the music production organization that he directed in SD. So, what's my point...don't worry I'll get there eventually....

Lately, I've seen a lot of anger and bickering on the board. Some people like it and some are off the board now due to it. What do I think?? Well, as I said before, my personality is to naturally seek out diplomacy and avoid negativity. However, conflict and differences can be positive when, as this parent showed me, we can be pushed to look at a view or enraged enough to stand up for what we really feel.

Another related lesson came from a wise man in Mulege via a food analogy. He said some days he likes flour tortillas, other days corn, some days just rice and beans no tortillas but throw in some ranch queso. Then, he added that the same offering everyday was boring and not healthy for food or in life. Next, he said just like food, we are not all the same tortillas and we should not surround ourselves with sameness. So, his words lead me back to JR's posts. JR, some of your posts are not how I would communicate my views but just as the parent I spoke of before, being pushed and challenged to take a stand or reflect on our views is healthy...we are not the same tortilla but that is part of the variety found here.

As for your list, I have seen what you describe in Mulege but showing foreigners that path to respect is complex. If your views get others to think about how we live in Mexico that is useful but there are many paths to get there...you have found yours but it is possible to get there another way. Learning Spanish is one that I believe in strongly when living in another country whether it's Mexico, the U.S., or any other place....if you want to interact in a community beyond just the day to day needs level. As far as getting involved, I think that it all depends on the approach...is it a paternalistic, I know better than you do or I'm interested in being part of your world, what do you think would be useful?? During my time in Mulege, I saw all these areas both the positive and negative. As for the negative, sometimes people don't reflect on how their actions may be taken, sometimes we all make mistakes that were done with good intentions. Does it make us evil or contributors to the downfall of Baja California?? Maybe yes, maybe no....now I need that in your face parent who's moving to NYC to kick my butt and make me take a stand on this!! Anyway, enough is enough from me....sorry, by now some of you may be wishing I did break my finger when it got slammed in the car door!!

you say 40%

fdt - 8-3-2005 at 09:21 PM

of hispanics in the US. I just happened to agree with JR that has nothing to do with Hispanics (that are unknown in M?xico as also are latinos unknown in M?xico as a race) wich are not the mexicans JR is probably refering to. AS a mexican I and other mexicans do not agree w/gwb

I most assuredly do not

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 09:23 PM

bring up u.s.politics in my travels. Don't even like it that much on here!~
What I will say is that the rural Mexican folks used to bring it up plenty when I started going down there. I was asked everywhere I went how I feel about the war.
I don't feel to kindly about it at all and watching what is happening now, I feel even less kindly and think that people that promote this crap are idiots but again, this isn't about that.
And my friends here in the north feel the same way. They do not like war. Especially another ridiculous one where lives are being lost because of an arrogant idiot. But this isn't about that either.
ALL of them considered gb the same as bin laden! I couldn't argue!!

This is about some ideas about foreigners moving to another country. I got these ideas from the gwb handbook on how to win friends and fit in while visiting foreign countries.

David K - 8-3-2005 at 09:23 PM

But, did they support Saddam Hussein and his rape and torture chambers? That is no longer happening, thanks to us, and the coalition forces (and GWB). That had to stop... just like Hitler had to be stopped (Germany didn't attack us either).

Guantanamo David?

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 09:29 PM

Arent you in enough trouble already?

Lindsay, this isn't about you.

JR, leave DK alone

fdt - 8-3-2005 at 09:35 PM

I am for once suporting your # 12 and yes, probably MY FRIEND DK wont agree, but I know he respects my opinion and I will not dwell on it

What about 1 - 11

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 09:38 PM

and 13 - 16? :lol:

de acuerdo, OK? nfm

fdt - 8-3-2005 at 09:42 PM

And Barry

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 09:45 PM

If yall believed stats coming from that place, none of you would vacation in Mexico, right? :light:

lindsay - 8-3-2005 at 09:46 PM

JR, be careful before you absolve me...as I said before as a "freshman" in Baja California I think most of us can find experiences that we would approach differently if we could have them to try again....I know that I had mine. So, as I said in the last post, maybe some of the people that you find fault with are not in a place where they are capable of looking at their actions...I don't know. You have seen behavior and attitudes that you find unacceptable. Do I have a remedy for it? No. Do I know all the ins and outs of your feelings about what's happening in Baja California. No, again. I did write though because I identify with some of your points but because we are not the same tortilla and look at life differently, hopefully you can see my view as well. It goes back to the good, bad and ugly theme...we are ALL a little bit of each one and hopefully we're able to own up to that, call out others when we see it and find a way to negotiate it all. Sorry, it's my diplomatic side but I'm working on getting the "in your face" part going...it's a work in progress. Cuidate!!

Are you related to Mike Humfreville

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 09:49 PM

by any chance?

And no worries, just joshin ya teach. :coolup:

Dave - 8-3-2005 at 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lindsay
maybe some of the people that you find fault with are not in a place where they are capable of looking at their actions...I don't know. You have seen behavior and attitudes that you find unacceptable. Do I have a remedy for it?

I do. Ban the sale of alcohol to gringos. :biggrin:

Bajame - 8-3-2005 at 09:55 PM

Some have eye's and cannot see :yes:

and ears and cannot hear. If he put's some extra coins in your pocket then he must be a great man! :barf:

Stop it you guys

jrbaja - 8-3-2005 at 10:03 PM

Some genius may accuse me of tampering with the numbers of replies and views.
I wonder where he gets those ideas from? Florida perhaps :light:

Hasta Manana

lindsay - 8-3-2005 at 10:37 PM

Have enjoyed the posts tonight...no JR, I'm not related to Mike but remember some day the diplomat might just take you out to the bamboo shed for a good whooping...just joshin'...remember I'm still trying to get that "in your face" part going!!

Dave, you're right alcohol and some gringos do not mix but in fairness, I could put that label on many other nationalities when people are in vacation mode, living la vida loca or just have driven down alcoholism lane. When we're in Mexico, unfortunately, the drunk gringo sterotype gets reinforced but the ugly "visitor" I don't think is just an American by-product. You can come see some of my adult students at the English school here in SD to illustrate the point....they come from all over the world and believe me, some of them live it up with "drink" as well as any "gringos gone wild" down south!! Take care everyone and off to the land of night-night and suenos for me!!

Oh, I can tell you...

Sharksbaja - 8-4-2005 at 12:37 AM

that the Mexicans I know in these parts and the ones I have hired in Mexico are not shy about their feelings of Bush.:moon:

Sharksbaja - 8-4-2005 at 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
Some thoughts on moving to a foreign country.

1. Learn the language at least a little.
2. Don't move to a gringo enclave where thieves like to prey
3. Don't move to a city
4. Meet and talk to the local people
5. Show them you are either a good or bad person. (they can tell)
6. Don't complain
7. Don't try to change anything your first week or year
there.
8. Make a friend
9. Don't think that you are better than them for whatever silly reasons. You are not.
10. Learn from the locals and don't try to teach them your ways
11. Mind your own business
12. Don't tell them you like george bush!
13. Respect everyone, no matter thier appearance or social status
14. Mind your own business
15. When you are established/respected, work together with the community to make things happen for the benefit of all, not just you.
16. Mind your own business

-----------------------------------------------------
Gee, finally a test for the palabras de espanol impaired.

Piece of pie:

1. Ola, como esta?
2. Estato del seso
3. Mulege... pop:3500, es ciudado?
4. Ola, como esta?
5. Que pasa?
6. No problema
7. Despues mi amigo
8. Ola, como esta mi amigo
9. Tu suerte mi amigo
10. Gracias amigo
11. No problema
12. No problema
13. No problema
14. No problema
15. No trabajo solomente.
16. No problema

No problem

Bob H - 8-4-2005 at 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
.....me, i take none of this internet drivel seriously! hahahaha :coolup:

Capt. Mike has it all figured out - I agree 100%!! Ya just can't take this stuff seriously... :no:

Bob H

budman - 8-5-2005 at 07:03 AM

Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics, even if you win; you are still retarded.

budman

Baja Bernie - 8-5-2005 at 07:26 AM

What a wonderful way to make a debut

Welcome--I think!

budman - 8-5-2005 at 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bernie
What a wonderful way to make a debut

Welcome--I think!

Gracias! I am falling in love with Baja and just surfing this board, seems to be alot of useful information. One thing I have never found useful was arguing politics on the net. I am a HUGE supporter of my party, politically active and love debate. It just seems that the internet is not the forum that leads to friendly debate, that said, thank you for the welcome and I hope I did not offend with my first post. I am interested in wine making and have started thinking about retiring to a small winery. Any vintners on here? Thanks.

Watch out

DanO - 8-5-2005 at 11:43 AM

Retarded folks might be insulted by being compared to us. :lol:

Good one, Budman.

Political arguements-------

Barry A. - 8-5-2005 at 11:49 AM

The huge majority of us on this board never "argue" politics-----(except on the "non-baja" thread), we only "respond" to political comments made by others that we think are misleading, or just plain wrong.

Still, your point about not argueing politics on the net is very valid.

This wasn't about politics!

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 12:09 PM

Let's see what the people really say

DanO - 8-5-2005 at 12:10 PM

There are opinions, and then there are facts. According to this BBC World Service poll, JR would appear to be correct about the views of Mexicans in general regarding U.S. politics.

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/BBCworldpoll/html/bbcpoll0...

I wasn't kidding when I made the list

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 12:19 PM

and there was a reason for every number. Do not listen to tourists ideas on Baja. They are guessing at it. Especially politically blinded ones!

JR and DanO------

Barry A. - 8-5-2005 at 12:25 PM

JR----to me you made it about politics when you cranked in your number 12 item above.

DanO-------whoa-----that is a startling poll! especially about Mexico. I must say that I am suspect of any poll done by BBC-----they seem to always slant their "questions" in a most liberal way. However, perhaps my stats are wrong, and if so I sincerely apologize to all, especially JR, but I am still highly suspicious. Only CBC out of Canada is more liberal than the BBC, from what I can tell. They both definitely have an "agenda", and it is not pro-Bush.

I must say, if the polling is true and correct, then I am really amazed, and dismayed.

Nuff said on this subject, I suppose.

There's lots more where that came from

DanO - 8-5-2005 at 12:47 PM

And it don't look good. Try this poll, conducted by ten major newspapers around the world, including Reforma. Here's a cool flash summary of the results:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/flash/0,5860,1327656,00.html

Here are the actual questions coupled with the results, so you can determine if there's any bias to them one way or the other:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/viewsofamerica/tab...

And here's an article discussing the Mexican poll results in detail.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sondage_mondial_usa/article/1,9407...

I don't dabble in politics

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 12:53 PM

but I do pay attention in Baja. I have no reason to make anything up about anything. All of the Mexican people I talk to down here, and that's a LOT, do not like GW. Or Sadam if it makes you feel any better!

I listed #12 knowing full well I would hear something from dk about it. But, the fact is, it would not be a good idea to say you like gw down here if you are trying to make friends. Honest.

Sharksbaja - 8-5-2005 at 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by budman

Quote:

Originally posted by Baja Bernie
What a wonderful way to make a debut

Welcome--I think!

I am interested in wine making and have started thinking about retiring to a small winery. Any vintners on here?

In Baja?
No mucho ranchitos vinos, I would care to guess.

DanO and JR------

Barry A. - 8-5-2005 at 01:07 PM

DanO----the first two links will not open up for some reason. The third site/link is in French, which I do not read. So I could not comprehend any of that info you sent out.

JR------I must admit that is a good explanation of why you included #12 on the list------but----

I still think it is funny that you say this-----as previously stated, I talked to litterally 100's of Italians lately about GWB and they had no problems with it at all. Even if some did not agree with me they certainly were not rude or hostile. I find it hard to believe that the Mexicans in general would be any different. Deep down I am pretty sure that they realize that GWB is "looking out for them" too. :yes:

Not hostile or even rude

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 01:12 PM

But, they are very adament about their feelings on war. And they hold certain parties responsible for this.

If you were to mention what a great guy you thought gw was, they may interpret it as you being pro war and you would lose a little respect! :light:

That's all #12 was about.

Also, the Mexicans are very "Macho" people. When they see gw addressing a crowd trying to explain his policies, and his voice is cracking every other sentence, it shows a certain trate in ones character that isn't exactly believable. :light:

But, this isn't about politics. :lol:

[Edited on 8/5/2005 by jrbaja]

JR----picky, picky, picky !!!!------

Barry A. - 8-5-2005 at 01:30 PM

There are several CEO's of huge corporations in the US that studder almost uncontrollably-----does not seem to effect their leadership abilities, tho. For sure, he is no "smooth Willie", but he gets his points across, and then some, in my opinion.

"Macho" and "anti-war" (the typical Mexican??) seem like unusual traits in the same person, but you are probably right.

"Macho"

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 01:53 PM

doesn't necessarily mean "violent"! :light:

capn.sharky - 8-5-2005 at 02:37 PM

Gee---I didn't see Iraq on this list.

What the . . . ?

DanO - 8-5-2005 at 03:13 PM

I don't know why those links won't fully convert. Doug? Anyway, with apologies for the use of bandwidth, here are some excerpts from the Reforma article on the Mexican part of the poll. Only the date is in French.

Le vendredi 15 octobre 2004

Alejandro Moreno

Reforma

A national poll of Mexican adults conducted by newspaper Reforma, in collaboration with 10 major newspapers around the world, shows that 55 percent of respondents prefer John Kerry to win the presidential election to be held on November 2nd. In contrast, 20 percent support Bush in his reelection bid.

About 33 percent of Mexicans polled said that they have not heard about John Kerry, a substantial proportion if compared to only 6 percent who said they don't know anything about George W. Bush.

Why is it that they have turned their backs on Bush? It is not the bilateral relationship per se: about 60 percent of Mexicans polled consider that current relations between the U.S. and Mexico are very good or somewhat good. It is how Mexicans view the war against terrorism in general, and the preemptive war in Iraq, in particular.

According to the poll, 83 percent of Mexicans think that invading Iraq was wrong. The poll was conducted before the first presidential debate, but Kerry's depiction of the war as a ?colossal error? could have found some echo in Mexican public opinion. Six out of ten respondents consider that the war in Iraq has not contributed at all in the fight against terrorism.

These perceptions have hit Bush's ratings. A majority of Mexicans, or 56 percent to be more specific, report that their opinion of the current U.S. President has worsen in the last two or three years. Only 23 percent say that they have a favorable opinion about him. In contrast, 51 percent express a favorable opinion about Americans in general.

Most Mexicans consider the U.S. to be the most important country for their own. According to the poll, 71 percent think it is very important that Mexico maintains good relations with their northern neighbor. And this opinion is not just based on the rules of diplomacy, but on everyday life. Over a million families get much of their income from their relatives living in the United States.

Mexicans seemed very aware of American life and society. Most are exposed to Hollywood, American television, and American music. A lesser, yet substantial proportion reads American newspapers and magazines. Six out of ten respondents feel that they are very well or somewhat informed about the United States. Over 40 percent have actually been to the U.S. for work, vacation, family visits, studies, or any other reason.

With all this, very few see a Bush reelection with optimism. Instead, 47 percent think that a Democratic victory would improve the international state of affairs. After all, two thirds consider that the U.S. has substantial influence in the world, and most Mexicans think that it will remain the world's largest economic power in the foreseeable future.

Baja Bernie - 8-5-2005 at 03:51 PM

Is it any wonder that people reared under the PRI and fed total socialist pap for all of their lives would tend to wish the Democrats well? Most of them would not even give Presidente Fox a chance even when they 'know' that the PRI still controlls the Congress and the purse strings.

Most of 'my' Mexican friends do not wish to get involved in almost anything that involves conflict. That normally includes speaking of politics with their gringo friends unless the gringo has been invited into their homes.

Most often they will tell you what they believe that you want to hear. They would much rather smile than offend. ( Look at this board and you will notice that this is not a trait shared by many of the gringos who post here--myself included).

They won't even report crime in progress because they do not wish to be invloved with their own police.

Those of you have read my books know that I love Baja and its people but that is with the understanding that they view most things in this life from a different angle that most gringos. Their love and protectiveness for their extended family will cause them to fight. About the only other thing that they are willing to fight for is their own macho egos.

I know the drug cartels are a totally different ball game.

In real life

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 04:11 PM

I'd be willing to bet that gw is the second most hated guy on the planet excluding a very few gringos who still are supporting him. Amazing!

Love that Bush

MrBillM - 8-5-2005 at 04:50 PM

My own experience in Baja has been that, the more successful a Mexican is (economically), the more likely he is to support GWB. Not much different in the U.S.

As far as how well the world at large likes GWB, WHO CARES. They don't get a vote and we've got the Aircraft Carriers and Nukes. Remember "If you've got them by the Balls, their Hearts and Minds will follow".

ignorance is alive and well .

beercan - 8-5-2005 at 05:04 PM

Just as I don't try and" fiqure" other countries attitudes and politics, I see that most of the "non U.S. people" on this board shouldn't either.
Our country needed strong leadership and WE elected him !!! Not the rest of the world !!!!!!!!

JR

Baja Bernie - 8-5-2005 at 05:36 PM

For not being involved in politics you sure do keep beating the same old drum.

Hose A--Thanks and it does mean something to me.

bajalou - 8-5-2005 at 05:44 PM

Addressing the topis of this thread---

If you don' want to be F***ed, don't assume the possition...

And it's about the same everywhere I have been.

:saint:

yankeeirishman - 8-5-2005 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

#3. San Felipe is just fine!

#12. This would had been a good post... the politic statement here ruined that! Save GB for the off topics.

#14. I dont mind my own business...I nose in to see, and to hear. Then submit my point if asked!

Otherwise.......some good points here jrbaja. I want to say that on #4.....I like to venture into the back country, and seek out the locals. Sit around, chat...see their lifestyles.....feel their life as one might say. The city folks are too busy at times to mendle.

[Edited on 8-6-2005 by yankeeirishman]

For a ruined post

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 08:36 PM

there sure are a lot of replies, including yours Yankee! And it wasn't a political statement, it was about advice for gringos/foreigners moving to a foreign country.
Some people just seem a little touchy about their hero who isn't even sure of himself. Even when his name is just mentioned it sets off a certain group coming to his defense. :lol:

Insecurity perhaps?
It's part of the advice is all and if yall don't believe me, you probably don't get around down here much. Too bad!

Appreciate your thoughts and advise. jr

beercan - 8-5-2005 at 08:47 PM

But stick to your own politics . you've got an "elected leader" too. I don't make jokes or run him down.

Fair enough

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 08:49 PM

No more politics from me.

yankeeirishman - 8-5-2005 at 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
there sure are a lot of replies, including yours Yankee! And it wasn't a political statement, it was about advice for gringos/foreigners moving to a foreign country.
Some people just seem a little touchy about their hero who isn't even sure of himself. Even when his name is just mentioned it sets off a certain group coming to his defense. :lol:

Insecurity perhaps?
It's part of the advice is all and if yall don't believe me, you probably don't get around down here much. Too bad!

Hey ol' boy...dont get all brusie! Read the WHOLE reply to see this statement. "Otherwise.......some good points here jrbaja"...you need not defend yourself to me jrbaja..I happen to be one of the few that likes your statements. Now...go brusie the other folks here :lol:

12. Don't tell them you like george bush! ....can be gathered as an political statement by some readers, fyi.

[Edited on 8-6-2005 by yankeeirishman]

Brusie?

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 09:36 PM

For a self proclaimed "peace keeper", that sure seems like atroll to me. :lol:

But hey, I thought this was a basically innocent post, at least coming from me! :lol:

yankeeirishman - 8-5-2005 at 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
For a self proclaimed "peace keeper", that sure seems like atroll to me. :lol:

But hey, I thought this was a basically innocent post, at least coming from me! :lol:

jrbaja...you are taking my words out of context! I havent troll or flame you here......do you understand that?

I wasn't talking about me

jrbaja - 8-5-2005 at 09:45 PM

I don't understand the Brusie part. Sorry

And I thought everyone on here likes what I have to say! :lol:

You mean they don't? Heck :saint:

[Edited on 8/6/2005 by jrbaja]

Debra - 8-5-2005 at 10:18 PM

DOUG HELP! The software is screwing up again! I came to the general board and somehow ended up in the political forum!!!!!!

Couldn't resist this one!!!!

Baja Bernie - 8-6-2005 at 08:31 AM

Be happy!
Don't let anything burst your balloon!
Boogie through life!

bajaruby - 8-6-2005 at 08:42 AM

Hey Y.I.M.,
Good to see ya on the board again.
To everyone that has a b-gripe, If you voted you have a right to b-gripe, if not then all you have a right to is live with it. NO B-GRIPE RIGHT :?:

yankeeirishman - 8-6-2005 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajaruby
Hey Y.I.M.,
Good to see ya on the board again.
To everyone that has a b-gripe, If you voted you have a right to b-gripe, if not then all you have a right to is live with it. NO B-GRIPE RIGHT :?:

It's good to be back. Seems to have gotten alittle better with some here, with their interrelations with one another. I said "it seems"!

Oh....I'll gripe as I have in the past. And debate. And make fun at some! These votes (or polls)...I do not partake to them. Kiddy stuff. I hope the violent threats do not occure here again....that was crapola. Ruins good reading. Not the Baja sprite! :cool:

Hey..Stinsen Beach is warm warm warm! Ya really missing a special time there! No suits are needed ,now for the water.

Numero doce

flyfishinPam - 8-6-2005 at 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrbaja
bring up u.s.politics in my travels. Don't even like it that much on here!~
What I will say is that the rural Mexican folks used to bring it up plenty when I started going down there. I was asked everywhere I went how I feel about the war.....

....ALL of them considered gb the same as bin laden! I couldn't argue!!

This is about some ideas about foreigners moving to another country. I got these ideas from the gwb handbook on how to win friends and fit in while visiting foreign countries.

I have found that the same thing has happened to me as described above. I don't like to talk politics with Americans because it seems to be a waste of time, but Mexicans sure love to talk politics. Since the PAN won the people have really opened up and since the torres the talk about Bush began. At least that's when I noticed it. Also the fact that my Spanish really improved about then made a difference.

JR, the people have opened up to you and are telling you how they really feel. I hear the same things. You have become a persona de confianza to them and that's a compliment.

For the most part, because I seem to see both sides, the Mexican people do not agree with GWB and his doctrine. They are afraid of it. But do you think they would say that to an American that they don't know very well? No because it could hurt them financially. If a bartender spoke his or her mind on this subject at gringo happy hour, how much in tips do you thinks they would bring home? They simply don't want to bite off the hands that feed them, at least where tourism is the driving force of the economy.

Pure and simple, unless you're a really good friend and truly understand their language, they are telling you what they think you want to hear. So if you want to not make waves and just enjoy yourself in Mexico keep your politics at home. That is the point JR was trying to make when he mentioned numero doce.

That attitude-----

Barry A. - 8-6-2005 at 07:25 PM

is EXACTLY what has gotten us into this mess with the Muslim extremists in the first place, IMHO. As long as we keep avoiding verbally what has been going on for over 20 years, and we HAVE been for the most part, we will reap the consequences, and they ain't purty. The "media" for the most part is so misleading, that we are in serious trouble (and most don't even know it), just like they/we did during the Viet Nam war-----it is disgusting-------but they (the media) "mean well", of course. Jeeeeeeez!!!!! Tunnel vision!!!!!

The Muslim extremists want to bury us----the whole western world----and that includes Mexico. At least Bush and Tony Blair (and many others) can see what is going on, and are bold enough to take action to stop it, or at least keep it in check. If you think that these statements are paranoid, just stayed tuned. It is not over by a long shot. This is going to be a long, drawn out WAR, and there is no avoiding it, no matter what the "majority" thinks, or the Mexicano's, for that matter.

This subject just drives me crazy, and should not be addressed on this board-----this is for the "Off topic" board-----but when it IS brought to this board, it has to be challenged, IMHO.

Lets go back to discussing Baja Ca., not this divisive political stuff----it is not getting us anywhere, and I am as guilty as anyone.

isn't it time to put down our weapons...

eetdrt88 - 8-6-2005 at 07:38 PM

and spark up the peace pipe...follow Mr potato head,he will lead us

Good Idea

MrBillM - 8-6-2005 at 08:50 PM

Hey, that Mr. Potatohead looks like a GREAT target.

sounds like some folks need...

eetdrt88 - 8-6-2005 at 08:59 PM

more roughage in their diet...

88-----------

Barry A. - 8-7-2005 at 08:32 AM

I will have you know that I eat 100 Bran and Shredded Wheat every morning-------------because I need it :lol:

Barry