BajaNomad - 3 reasons not to take a vehicle with street queen tires to Baja

3 reasons not to take a vehicle with street queen tires to Baja

Taco de Baja - 9-5-2005 at 02:03 PM

Had a great trip to the 7 sisters area, ok water temps except for first 2 days when they dipped into the low 60's. Warm air in the 80's. Awesome light shows at night with the red tide. Some good meals of halibut and sheephead.

But on the way out, my sister's new Nissan Armada with 265/70R18 Continental street tires got 3, count them 1, 2, 3...flat tires in less that 2 hours.
The first was easy to fix with a single tire plug

The second was a large hole that we attempted to patch with 8 tire plugs, but no go. So, on with the spare.

The third was a catastrophic failure of the spare just before sundown. Hmm?..this looks like a nice place to camp :rolleyes:

. Luckily we got it out of the road as a car came by at 2:30am, and another at 5:50am.

Being that her vehicle has 18 inch rims, we could not simply put one on my 16 inch rims or my other sisters 17 inch rims on, as they would not clear the large brake calipers (We tried though), in addition, the difference in tire height may have caused damage to her limited slip differential.

So we had no choice but to patch the second flat, the next morning of course. The hole was big enough to poke a finger into, with strands of steel belt poking through. We amazingly were able to break the bead and dismount the tire. We then put on a 2? diameter patch over the hole, and then a large 3?x5? patch over the first patch. We then topped it off with several strips of duct tape.

A little soapy water and a few blasts from a high-pressure air tank reseated the bead with little trouble.

We then said our prayers and headed off again, stopped of at the shrine to the Virgin on the way out, said more prayers, left money for the caretakers. And made it back to the pavement, many many hours later than originally planned. Hit the border at 8:15pm and crossed in 1 hour, even though the line was at the beginning of the bridge.

Moral of the story, Never bring street queen tires off road, especially if you have an oddball size like 18 rims that probably no tire shop in Baja has ever seen
.
The second moral is to have a full tire repair kit including an hydraulic jack (note twisted scissor jack in photo that broke under the strain of lifting her car on a slightly uneven section of off road dirt, even on a jack stand), large and small inside tire patches, tire plugs, tire spoons to dismount the tire, an air compressor (preferably a hard mount one with an external tank), soapy water to help break and reseat the tire bead, and of course DUCT TAPE!

P.S. My sister?s Armada is now outfitted with 285/65R18 BFG All Terrain TA?s.

First flat:

Second Flat:

Second Flat, On goes the spare:

Catastrophic third flat (I wonder what she's thinking?):

Another view of third flat (note twisted jack):

Patched second flat for the third flat (ain?t Duct tape great?)

Taco de Baja - 9-5-2005 at 03:12 PM

there, that's better, I hope.
They were too large for me too. so I resized them.
More pics to follow, probably in the photo section.

rpleger - 9-5-2005 at 03:54 PM

BGF rules.

tunaeater - 9-5-2005 at 04:53 PM

Stock tires can be a real problem when matched up with Baja's tough terrain. Last year I had 6 flats on my new F-150, General tires. I got all the flats from LA Bay to San Felipe via Calamuje,Gonzaga Bay,San Felipe. I bought brand new BFG's when I came home. I haven't had a flat yet knock on wood....Paul

bajalou - 9-5-2005 at 05:08 PM

Great story and pictures, Brooks, you all did good.

The tire shops here in San Felipe use Transmision fluid for the lubricant to mount/dismount tires. I've used it and works great. Just a thought

Thanks

:biggrin:

Mike Supino - 9-5-2005 at 07:25 PM

Maybe you should use BFG projects like we use on the Trophy Trucks??????

Toyos v BFG's

Al G - 9-5-2005 at 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
Richard...you old off-roader, you....my BFG's bit the dust long ago. And I refuse to buy French-owned 'Michelins', so went with Toyos like whistler wants to do. Never go back.

Can Toyos be ran @ 8-12 lbs as someone told me BFGs can??
Al

Al G - 9-5-2005 at 08:12 PM

Taco de Baja
Varrry resourceful.
I will admit I would not have been prepared, but I will be now! :light:

Thanks Pompano

Al G - 9-6-2005 at 10:35 AM

I would have tried it in an area like Taco de Baja was in thinking it would keep it from punching through.
What is the best preasure for sandy wash board roads??
Al

Toyo A/Ts

Sharksbaja - 9-6-2005 at 11:38 AM

30,000 mi on my Toyo A/Ts. A good multi-purpose tire. I have ran them at 20 psi for many miles w/o probs. Good sand tire in my opinion.

Fronts look almost like new but both rears are almost gone. I guess my alignments cool!

Great tires but I did pick up a spike shaped rock last trip. Kept hearing this tic tic sound. Later I heard this psss psss sound. The rock was plugging the hole till it split lengthwise and air was escaping out the crack in the rock. Took six plugs but goyt me home. I want OBA!

Patches? need some patches!

John M - 9-6-2005 at 12:14 PM

Taco - where did you locate and what kind of patches - how did you adhere the patches, self sticky stuff on them? You wrote:

"We then put on a 2? diameter patch over the hole, and then a large 3?x5? patch over the first patch. We then topped it off with several strips of duct tape."

We've run BFGs - All Terrain or Mud Terrain - 31x10.50s at 15 lbs for extended dirt road distances, like from Chapala to Puertocitos via Gonzaga. Done it for years with no apparent bad effects on the tires. Of course we don't drive the higher speeds some folks might - mostly under 30 mph on the better surfaces and around 10-15 mph on rockier parts.

John M.

Neal Johns - 9-6-2005 at 03:49 PM

Al G - John M has a small Jeep - I have 32" tires on a Tacoma with a slide-in cabover Pop-top camper and use 20-25 lbs. on washboard with BFGs with great results and no problems at 40-50 mph.

Taco de Baja - 9-6-2005 at 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John M
Taco - where did you locate and what kind of patches - how did you adhere the patches, self sticky stuff on them? You wrote:

"We then put on a 2? diameter patch over the hole, and then a large 3?x5? patch over the first patch. We then topped it off with several strips of duct tape."

We've run BFGs - All Terrain or Mud Terrain - 31x10.50s at 15 lbs for extended dirt road distances, like from Chapala to Puertocitos via Gonzaga. Done it for years with no apparent bad effects on the tires. Of course we don't drive the higher speeds some folks might - mostly under 30 mph on the better surfaces and around 10-15 mph on rockier parts.

John M.

We used a Camel brand patch and Camel adhesive for the small patch and I do not know the brand of the large one, only they it said "Made in W. Germany" on the back and may have been something from my father's tire kit from a long long time ago.
Camel patches can be found in almost any auto supply place like Pep Boys. The larger 3x5 patch may be available at a big rig truck stop.
We basically followed the directions on the can of Camel adhesive: Sand away all ridges and rough areas in the area where the patch will go. Apply the adhesive (looks like rubber cement, but thinner), allow to dry, peel the back off the patch and apply over the hole. Roll out all the air holes with a patch wheel (or small rounded rock).
Apparently the material on the back of the patch reacts with the dried adhesive and vulcanized the patch to the tire, but you have to get out all the air between the patch and the tire or it may not fully vulcanize.

When finally patched we inflated the tire to 40 PSI in an attempt to not get a side wall puncture, a real threat when running low pressure off road. In sand this is not an issue, but on a rocky road a definite possibility.

Sharksbaja - 9-6-2005 at 09:31 PM

I normally only deflate in extremely deep sand but usually just try to blow through. Sometimes when I drop off into deep stuff and feel the frontend starting to plow I'll stop, airdown, back up slowly 10 or so feet then forward ho. :cool:

Good insurance is to carry a proper sized inner tube for emergency repairs.
Be knowledgeable in tire repairs. Don't break the bead unnecessarily if you are not confident you can reseat the tire after a repair. Many repairs require unmounting
Big, wide tires can be tuff to get reinflated/remounted,especially without a good volume of compressed air. I had to use a come-along wrapped around my old Duplex tires to reseat.
It's next to impossible w/o water and I have used lotion, shampoo or soap, even beer. When you have to make a temporary sidewall repair or large hole use a higher pressure after serious repairs.
A good bet is to carry the right glue and have an ample amount of repair items including sheet rubber and plenty of butyl rubber cement. Always use REAL rubber. I bring at least two jacks, one being high-lift, some 4"X6" wood blocks and a 3'X3' piece or two of 3/4' ply. Two compressors because they are made in China and a couple of good tire spoons. I hate the dirty job! :mad:

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by Sharksbaja]

David K - 9-6-2005 at 10:30 PM

Even though my New Toyota comes with 16" BFGs (Rugged Trail T/As), as did my last.. when it is time to replace them I very well would likely use the Cooper/Futura (U.S. made) tires sold through Pep Boys (Dakotas) at less than half the price of import owned BFGs.

I have seen one too many sidewall punctures in the famous 3 ply sidewall All Terrain T/A's to spend so much $$$ on them... buit, we will see when time comes to get new tires... I'll check Costco.

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by David K]

Stuck in Baja and can't wait!!!

Al G - 9-7-2005 at 06:28 AM

The stored knowledge base of Baja Nomads is incredible! WOW
I can not imagine a more difficult sitiation then Taco de Baja, But if there is please tell us, as I learned a lot from that. If there are stories about motorhomes all the better.
Albert

Taco de Baja - 9-7-2005 at 08:05 AM

A friend had a possible worst scenario.

Imagine this. You are going up a steep hill in your Toyota Land Cruiser when suddenly POW! Your rear tire blows. It is a deeply rutted road and the spare is now resting on the ground. You are on a hill so there is no way jack the vehicle up high enough to access the spare. What do you do?

Luckily, there was another LC along on the same trip. So they placed rocks under the frame near the blow out, then dug deeply enough below the blown tire to remove it, put on the spare from the 2nd LC, refilled the hole under the tire, jacked the LC just high enough to remove the rocks under the frame, and continued on their way.

With enough time they probably could have excavated the spare out, but pretty dangerous to excavate under the spare when the weight of the LC is resting on it and it?s on a steep slope.

Moral of this story is to have picks and shovels at all times when going off road. A shovel is not enough in rocky ground, it'll just bounce off the gravel, cobbles and boulders.

that vehicle in the first few photos...

eetdrt88 - 9-7-2005 at 08:20 PM

looks more suited for the 405 freeway than offroading in baja...maybe i'm way off but alot of these new so called "off road" vehicles look like they were never intended for the abuse that the bad roads of baja can dish out

Sharksbaja - 9-7-2005 at 09:32 PM

:rolleyes:

Good grief man.......you just noticed!

my new baja rig...

eetdrt88 - 9-8-2005 at 09:27 AM

4x4 yugo :smug:

goes places most rigs cant even dream of :lol:

Yugo Madness

Al G - 9-8-2005 at 10:49 AM

A crazy girlfriend had a yugo she rolled one morning and called me. I rushed over(near her house) and she was not shook up at all. In fact she only called for me to help roll it back up. She got in it , said thanks and went on to the store.
I don't think she ever fixed the slight(believe it or not)damage. She did slow down going around corners.
Albert

[Edited on 9-8-2005 by Al G]

Tomas Tierra - 9-9-2005 at 08:58 PM

had 5 flats on that same stretch of road with Kelly off road tires..
Had two spares and the other three were pluggable
That was 5 sets of bfg's , and three Toyotas ago..One flat since, a nail at a work site...I aint switchin!!

Is there another triple side wall tire out there that is better???Iwould like to know..

Neal Johns - 9-9-2005 at 09:34 PM

The Goodyear Wrangler 3 ply sidewall tire is supposted to be good, but I will stick to BFGs - a three decade habit, my first All Terrain's were a set of bias ones on an FJ-40.

TMW - 9-10-2005 at 08:05 AM

Has anyone ever used lighter fluid to pop a tire back on the rim? A couple of truck drivers were telling me how they did it. Take lighter fluid and squirt it into the tire then throw a match in it and bang. I've never tried it.

Taco de Baja - 9-10-2005 at 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Has anyone ever used lighter fluid to pop a tire back on the rim? A couple of truck drivers were telling me how they did it. Take lighter fluid and squirt it into the tire then throw a match in it and bang. I've never tried it.

Had to do that once in San Luis Gonzaga in the early 1980's with my dad. We had patched a hole on his large Michelin tires, but b/c of the stiff sidewalls could not get the bead reseated no matter what we did, soap, a rope around the tread, lots of air, hitting with hammers, jumping on it with air attached, etc....

A Mexican came up from town and suggested we try the "Mexican method": lighter fluid and a match. We were skeptical, but decided to give it a try. We used Coleman white gas (and if you try this at home, kids, you should too as lighter fluid no longer has the explosive power it did in the past).

We poured a very small amount < 1-2 ounces around the bead, made a trail of fuel at least 10 feet long as a fuse. My dad had us all stand so we were shielded by the truck, he lit the trail and ran behind the truck too....and POW! the bead was seated with no damage to the rim or the tire.

In theory, there is not enough oxygen in the tire to cause an explosion large enough to blow up rim or the tire, at least with steel rims. I would suggest using this method as a last resort though, as we did.

Braulio - 9-21-2005 at 08:48 AM

Once you've been throught it a few times changing rims can be pretty easy. I use vaseline to lubricate the rim - use some type of lubricant or you'll probably mess up the rubber on the bead. You can use one of those ratchet strap deals to squeeze the thread to remount. Gasoline works fine to set the bead if necessary.

Cars used to come with a straight tire iron/lug wrench - they're ideal for popping the tire on or off. I try to have one with me.

The main problem usually is having a decent pump that will put out enough volume of air to set bead.

Sharksbaja - 9-22-2005 at 11:56 AM

On my old PW I changed the tires by hand for many years because of their size most tire changing machines wouldn't work.
My trick was to use a come-along wrapped around the tire with 4-6 small blocks of wood placed between the cable and tire. This works excellent for squeezing the bead out far enough to get the bead seated.
Always take the valve-stem out if you can so as to increase the volume of air entering the tire. It can be a real bear with a little tire inflator that moves little air but claims high PSI. Don't be fooled.

stevodadevo - 11-9-2005 at 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja

Quote:

We've used the same method several times. We used starter fluid and it really works like a charm.

ursidae69 - 11-9-2005 at 02:12 PM

I didn't see this in this thread, I might have missed it, but Safety Seal makes a great off-road tire plug kit. The punctures decribed in the first post were pretty severe though, not sure of this would have worked or not. Just throwing it out there.
http://www.safetyseal.com/store/offroad.htm

bajalou - 11-9-2005 at 04:20 PM

A friend who had a small trucking company in Fremont CA always beaded the tries with gasoline.