BajaNomad - The future face of Baja

The future face of Baja

Sharksbaja - 9-12-2005 at 12:26 PM

"It's growth is inevitable" say some. Although that phrase has been told umpteen times, just what do you envision in the next 20 years?

That seems a good number to put seeing as how the average Nomad age is 53. Most will live to see the changes in those years.

What kind of development do you perceive will transpire? Do you think all the bays that are close to Hwy 1 will all have considerable development. Do you think the strtech along BOC will be a strip of valuable exclusive homes and businesses.

Maybe you feel the coastal reaches will not succumb to the contractor rather it stay pristine and forever protected by ejido desires? Possibly restrained by the lack of services including utilities?

These questions surely are correctly targeted at a portion of the next potential permanent inhabitant sector...i.e. you.
Because you go or live, or will eventually live or vist more often in Baja, qualifies you as participant along with myself.
A participant in many respects. We will be joined by countless others , many seeking the same rewards and lifestyle changes.
Do you see another So. Cal. emblazoned with condos, golf courses and mini-malls vying for oceanfront lots?

My hope is that the changes reflect a personal appreciation and continuity for Mexicos' culture and land and that ones' reasons and purpose for increasing habitation simpatico.

comitan - 9-12-2005 at 12:34 PM

Do you see another So. Cal. emblazoned with condos, golf courses and mini-malls vying for oceanfront lots? YES!!!!!

My hope is that the changes reflect a personal appreciation and continuity for Mexicos' culture and land and that ones' reasons and purpose for increasing habitation simpatico. NO!!!!! See item 1 One word MONEY!!!!
and that isn't going to change.

bajajudy - 9-12-2005 at 01:33 PM

Yes I am afraid we are in for some serious changes. I have watched for over 5 years now, as some of my favorite things to do and places to see have become either inaccessible or paved. Two extremes granted but the truth.
Either they move the road for a subdivision or they pave what was once a beautiful road so one can get to the subsdivision.
Of course I live in one of the fastest growing resort areas in the world...yes I said world.

Diver - 9-12-2005 at 01:43 PM

Yep, buy now while you may still be able to afford it.
Enjoy it now before the crowds come.
Then you can sell and move to Costa Rica or Brazil with the money when it gets too crowded in Baja !
Anyone been to Jericocoara, Brazil ?

Eli - 9-12-2005 at 01:44 PM

I hope to still be alive to see a truly Multi-cultural state of conciseness. For example in a town like Los Barriles, there will be a true intregation of the two principal cultures that now dominate the scene in seperate modes of operation.

Sharksbaja - 9-12-2005 at 01:59 PM

Wow Eli, that is using some grey matter properly. You have shown awesome vision. Thank you.

Osprey - 9-12-2005 at 02:20 PM

Some western U.S. states remain lovely/lonely because they are still BLM. Just an accident of history/wars/acquisition. Same thing down here -- all the beach stuff on the 3 shores (the peninsula and the mainland across the Sea of Cortez) is Old Presidential Grant, Ejido, private agrarian or Federal. Sometimes the legal quagmire slows progress down but Corrett's corruption, Fonatur's political power churn galactically stupid schemes that become their own money engines that grind til everything turns to rust --- then they just move a few miles down the beach and say "this looks better, this looks good, dig right here". Hope it stay just the way it is.

Osprey - 9-12-2005 at 02:27 PM

Canal Transpeninsular

The keystone of the project known as Escalera Nautica, the Nautical Ladder, was the marina at Santa Rosallilita and the new road from the marina to Mexican Highway One. The plan, for this crucial first phase of the project, was to make the third rung of the ladder going south, a safe, modern harbor from which U.S. and other boaters could transport their boats across land to an improved marina facility in the Sea of Cortez.
FONATUR, the Mexican project developers, believed the plan, when completed, would entice many U.S. west coast boat owners to venture south to resort destinations like Cabo San Lucas, La Paz, Mazatlan. It was their hope that some larger boats would be drawn to ports in the northern part of the Sea of Cortez, such as San Carlos and Guymas and those on the mainland such as Acapulco and Puerta Vallarta. The developers were convinced they could put in place the necessary supply, storage, docking and repair facilities to lure boaters who formerly found the voyage south from the Pacific west coast impossible or extremely difficult because of the dangers of severe weather, lack of fueling facilities, safe harbors for anchoring in rough seas or vessel breakdowns.
Counting from the ladder?s top step, at the border, the first two rungs, the ones the U.S. boaters would first encounter on the long run south, Colonet and Punta Canoas, were planned to be no more than emergency fuel supply depots. While FONATUR was pouring millions of pesos into the marina to the south, these two dots on the map showed little change. The developers had never experienced the boat trip south, did not know that about 80% of the time, no vessel could safely fuel at these intermediate unprotected facilities because of sea current, tide or waves. The first leg of the trip to Bahia Tortuga, the one and only safe harbor with fuel, was still devoid of services, aids to navigation, dedicated anchorage, was 400 miles from San Diego -- boaters, sailors, yacht owners remained unconvinced the top part of the ladder was safe.
A few curious stateside mariners made the trip. They took advantage of the many empty slips in the Santa Rosallilita marina, savored the local lobster served at the new dockside restaurants, even bought T shirts and souvenirs at the cute little shops on the bay. In FONATURE?S luxurious office headquarters, five bigscreen TVs sang their siren song, tapes or discs displayed the boater?s paradise awaiting the weary travelers in Bahia de Los Angeles only a 139 kilometer magic carpet ride to the east ? the ever calm and azure waters of the Sea of Cortez lay just over the next hill.
Recreation World was watching as the first few boats made the trip across land. On the third transport, disaster struck. A rollover totaled a Mediterranean 38 ($300,000 hull damage) and a bad launch tore up the stern and keel of a pricey antique Norwegian sailboat. When news of ?No Hull Coverage? hit the ?net, it signaled the end of the crossings.

The awful terrorist attacks in 2001 and 2005 made worldwide changes FONATURE could not have anticipated. Lloyd?s of London, the largest of 7 reinsurors for marine hull coverage, had been gutted by the disasters in New York, Washington and San Francisco. Since conventional hull coverage had always been both difficult to come by and very expensive for coverage in Mexican waters, it was now, without Lloyd?s, and others to take on a percentage of the risk involved in the haul, transport and launch of these pricey toys, totally out of the question. So, no insurance, no Transpeninsula transport. The new and improved harbor facility with all the trimmings at Bahia de Los Angeles lay waiting for the boats that never came.
Meetings. That is the usual way to solve problems, hold meeting. Meetings there were; in Mexico City, London, Los Angeles. A Mexican engineer by the name of Octavio Ojeda came up with the idea of the canal. He had done some planning for this particular meeting and his portfolio was brimming with charts and maps and tables. He presented a CD program of scratchy old black and white film recording the planning of the Panama Canal. Original plans had been for a sea-level canal -- the plan for the lock type canal won out by a slim margin of votes -- Lake Gatun, one of the world?s largest artificial bodies of fresh water, had a great deal to do with the decision. Ojeda explained that a canal, from the Pacific to the Sea of Cortez, using the existing harbors, but a more direct route than the existing highway, would be 57 miles long, 23 miles shorter than the Panama Canal.
First hold meetings, then conduct studies. Ojeda was instructed to hire a consulting firm to look into the feasibility of such a project. Satellites and computers made it possible to get quick and accurate answers to questions like ?How deep and how wide should the canal be??, ?How long would it take?? and the big one ?How much will this cost?? The big hurdle, The Fault Line, was tied to all three questions. The sand could be moved by machines, the granite base would have to be moved by the detonation of explosives. Almost 30 miles of the projected route was granite. The engineers had risks managers who knew that powerful U.S. groups would press the Mexican government to recognize that a long series of massive explosions could effect the stability of the Pacific tectonic plate at the mid-peninsula fault line ? a small jolt in the south might cause ripples that could trigger quakes in Southern California.
The hurdle was not simply a single leap over one wooden bar. The cost of excavation was directly tied to the cost of machine excavation versus the use of explosives. Now the canal project brought together hundreds of thousands of people, in California and elsewhere, to form a cohesive group with a single mission: Stop the Canal Project. One would be hard pressed to find a project anywhere in the world, since the beginning of time, that so galvanized people, that made a more solid bloc of powerful organizations with disparate, long-standing, well defined goals.
The Greenpeace group now embraced the Anti Pollution folks while the Earthquake Watch doomsday fanatics and the marine ?We Are Killing the World?s Oceans? bunch were all huggin? and kissin?. Global Warming Watch was sure the cut would unbalance Pacific water temperatures and add to the disastrous effects of El Ni?o while major sportfishing and commercial fishing groups warned of the potential for lose of whole species of important sport/food fish caused by the cut.

Since the most powerful opposition came from the Fault/Quake group, it was finally agreed that an international group would install, calibrate and monitor seismic measurement devices at appropriate intervals along the North American Plate fault line which runs near the center of the Baja California peninsula to a point just above the project?s path. The group set the parameters for maximum limits of seismic magnitude for excavation detonations.
Mexico and FONATUR got the go-ahead on October 30, engineers and contractors were instructed to make final preparations to begin the big dig. The canal would be 56.4 miles long, 91 meters side to side, 30 meters in depth. The project was begun on November 20, Mexico?s Dia Nacional, the day the nation celebrates the revolution of 1910 -- a civil war between the president and a rival. There were setbacks early on ? they tried to dig right under the existing highway while they erected bridge supports under the existing roadway of Highway One, the lone artery south, from the U.S. border to La Paz, near the tip of the peninsula. The roadway collapsed in the early morning of February 12th. Seven people were killed, all of them Mexicans, who drove right off the edge ? in three separate vehicles, minutes apart. The bridge warning lights had been installed too close to the structure, went over the edge in the collapse.
Crews worked day and night for the next 102 days to Skycrane into the gap a sturdy bridge structure upon which they hurriedly paved a new section of concrete roadway to replace the awful, washboard detour that so plagued the weary travelers. The digging and dredging continued, grinding slowly to the east toward Bahia de Los Angeles. The project crews drilling, blasting, excavating, dredging from the east were outperforming their counterparts to the west. No delays here. Twenty three hard miles of canal were completed from the Bay of L.A. westward on the same day only 18.6 miles were complete in the west.
The Canal Transpeninsular was going to be a reality. Because it was drawing worldwide news coverage, Mexico and FONATUR gave the project their full support -- only $19M (of the original cost projection for the whole Escalera Nautica plan, $350M) had gone into installing and/or improving other Ladder Steps. When the rest of the money, the $331M, had been expended on the canal project alone, President Echeverria had no trouble at all with the congress; an additional $210M was made available to finish The Canal.
There were several grand openings. In the first, the real one, on June 2l, 2012, most of the guests and news crews had to come in by chopper. The water began to fill the canal from both ends at a place in the desert far from the highway. The access roads were still clogged with huge trucks, earth-movers, dredge support equipment. A grand celebration made bigger, better news when crowds gathered for fireworks, marching bands and confetti parades at Bahia de Los Angeles Harbor and Santa Rosallilita Marinas a few days later. Several camera crews shot the historic voyage of the first boat to travel the canal; one crew followed the craft, shot the crossing from the access road. The second crew filmed the crossing from the boat, capturing forever the excitement and the sound of success; champagne bottles pop, popping.
Now the record keepers, and the Mexican Congress were holding their collective breaths for The Parade of Boats. By the first day of 2013, 121 boats paid for the crossing from the Pacific side. On the last day of the same year, a total of 983 boats had paid to cross. During the same period, a total of 221 boats had paid to go the other way, from the Sea of Cortez to the Pacific.

Some smart-alec newspeople contacted FONATUR?S former CEO, John McCarthy, now retired to a villa in Antiqua, for an interview. When asked about the original prediction that 61,000 boats would make the trip south by the year 2014 he had a ready answer.
?You must remember that number was the prediction when the whole Escalera Nautica plan was begun. No reliable predictions could be made about new marine visitors after the plan changes brought about by the development of the Canal Transpeninsular. When I was there, the President told me to put all available resources into the canal project.?
One intrepid reporter from Rueters asked. ?Have you ever used the canal, taken your boat through the canal you built??
The retiree chuckled and said ?No way. Esperanza is too big. She might bump on the bottom or the sides. Besides, she?s in Aruba for repairs right now.?

Colorful imagination.

Sharksbaja - 9-12-2005 at 02:58 PM

You get the prize today Osprey. You really do "feel" the parts you write about. I can see some serious investigative work here along with the appropriate stereotyping! Good job!
Hey....... you never know! :?:

Diver - 9-12-2005 at 03:42 PM

Eli,

Who are the principal cultures in Loreto ?
Californians; midwesterners; canudians ? :lol:

It'll be interesting to see how much Mexico is left in Baja Sur when they're done. At least we know that the poor areas will stay poor; and Mexican !
.

pokey - 9-12-2005 at 04:21 PM

The only setback to baja development that I can see is the lack of water. Much of baja is ejido controlled but that doesn't matter much because President Fox has given ejidos the right to obtain clear titles to ejido land inorder to sell it.

Either way, I see baja only going down hill from here on out. There is so much coastal land available and so many North Americans who want a piece of it that baja will eventually resemble California. With meaningless zoning laws and endless greed the controlling factors; overdevelopment is a sure thing.

bajajudy - 9-12-2005 at 04:23 PM

The only thing that I see to stop it is a serious world wide recession. And I dont think any of us really want that.

[Edited on 9-12-2005 by bajajudy]

La Paz

Skeet/Loreto - 9-12-2005 at 04:40 PM

Isee La Paz growing,but slowr than other areas nearby. This city has always had a different flavor, it in the Past being a Freeport.
There is no true way to keep the Bay completely clean, there is not enough Water unless the money arrives for Desalt Plants.

i see La Paz growing but slowy and more for the Rich than the Wantabe Rich.Like those folks that can afford a $200,000 Home up above the Marina Hotel.

I think that all of the beautifull Beachs to the North will Develop completely before La Paz.
Skeet

Skeet/Loreto - 9-12-2005 at 04:48 PM

For Loreto the only answer can be if and when they discover enough Water to support the number of People.

I was present before 1976 when there was a 7 year Drought, when the Ranchers Hired Planes to Dust the thunder Storms with silver Nitrate to bring the Rains. then came Hurrcaine Lisa.

The next Drought will have a lot to do with Baja Sur and its future.
Skeet

2frogs - 9-12-2005 at 05:00 PM

You can forget Costa Rica...it's already been discovered. We lived there!

David K - 9-12-2005 at 05:00 PM

Good one Osprey! :lol:

TMW - 9-12-2005 at 05:24 PM

["A few curious stateside mariners made the trip. They took advantage of the many empty slips in the Santa Rosallilita marina, savored the local lobster served at the new dockside restaurants, even bought T shirts and souvenirs at the cute little shops on the bay. In FONATURE?S luxurious office headquarters, five bigscreen TVs sang their siren song, tapes or discs displayed the boater?s paradise awaiting the weary travelers in Bahia de Los Angeles only a 139 kilometer magic carpet ride to the east ? the ever calm and azure waters of the Sea of Cortez lay just over the next hill."]

Wow, I did not know this was in place now. I need to make a trip to see this.

bajaden - 9-12-2005 at 05:27 PM

I don't know about La Paz growing slowly Skeets. When I was down there a few weeks ago, a realter told me the population had doubled in the last 10 years. I love the town too and hope it never changes. For as long as I have been coming down here I have heard about this project and that project. Most fall on their face. Baja is strewn with the rements of great ideas by Fonatur. Im no expert on any of this. I only observe. As it is today, Baja appealing to a small amount of people. Im talking about living here. The reality of living here is much different than living anywhere in the United States. You have to check the experiation date on anything you buy. What you can buy, except for Cabo or any other large town is limited. Just try finding an airconditioned resturante in Mulege on a hot day. There are none. I know all this can change. American money can change a lot of things. I only hope my grandson can enjoy the baja I did.

vandenberg - 9-12-2005 at 05:32 PM

COSTA RICA

Spend a month there in the late 80's Wasn't impressed. Gulf side hot, humid and poor black. Pacific side ,hot windy and not very pretty away from the beaches. Their fabled 70 to 80 degree climate is all in the highlands around San Jose . Too far away from the ocean. Overall we decided on Baja for retirement. Have never regretted it.

2frogs - 9-12-2005 at 05:37 PM

That's good to know that Baja won out over Costa Rica. Our farm was at 4,500 and had those wonderful temps. overlooking the ocean. But, isolated and where you have to live to get the hospitals etc. you have to put up with too much and too expensive. Still thinking Baja! :yes:

comitan - 9-12-2005 at 05:46 PM

Skeet

I live in La Paz,anybody that thinks La Paz ia growing slow, are not informed.

La Concha Residential just starting, up the hill behind.

Costa Baja, Marina Mostly complete, hotel, condo's, residences to be built up the hill.

Paradiso Del Mar. Putting in the road now, constr. soon. when complete the whole view from La Paz as never before.

Cincodemayo - 9-12-2005 at 06:05 PM

Just look what Fonatur did to Cabo from San Jose to the tip...No rhyme...No reason.

Eli - 9-12-2005 at 06:40 PM

Diver,

Loreto same as all of B.C. - Mexican and Gringo. One of my great hopes is an economic balance by then, would be mighty nice don't you think. Could happen, it is a fair amount closer now than it was 20 years ago.

Osprey, better than good to see you posting again. Always enjoy your tall tales.

I got to agree on the growth of La Paz. Even though I don't make it to La Paz often; but every time I do, coming from the South the town seems to start where I thought was out of town the last time I was thru.

bajalera - 9-13-2005 at 11:50 AM

I'll have to agree on the inevitability of "progress," but it seems to be turning up at a different pace in La Paz than Los Cabos. For one thing, LP seems to attract more Mexican tourists and somehow has a different ambiance--perhaps because there's less emphasis on catering to Gringos.

Some of the changes made in recent years are to me big improvements: there are laundramats, supermarkets have packages of meat that I can identify [mostly], it doesn't take a day or so to get to Loreto, you can find a cold beer once you leave town even if you're not staying at a pricey resort hotel.

Progress seems to involve trade offs [and probably always has]. Meanwhile, though, it pleases me that while there's still a lot of talk about that Paradise slated for El Mogote, there don't seem to be signs of any work being done over there.

Lera

rpleger - 9-13-2005 at 12:00 PM

Spent 2mos in Quepos, Costa Rica; in 1976. I wished that I had bought then.
Returned in 1990 and Costa Rica is way overpriced.
Muleg? is fine for me. :cool:

Sharksbaja - 9-13-2005 at 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2frogs
You can forget Costa Rica...it's already been discovered. We lived there!

What about Guatamala? I really like those people.

Bob H - 9-13-2005 at 01:29 PM

I'm just glad that we visited Bahia de los Muertos when that beach was so beautiful and 'out there'. I believe it was one of the best places to go to relax, and rest in peace and quite. Now homes up to 17,000 square feet are being erected along the coast and it's now called The Bay of Dreams (Bahia de los Suenos). This is what I predict is going to happen to all of Baja in the days and years ahead. But this happens to all things good. We will see it with our own eyes!

Old Story, but it fits...

Mike Humfreville - 9-13-2005 at 01:36 PM

La Gringa, 2008

April 14, 2008

Mary Ann - just a short note.

I passed by Bahia de Los Angeles yesterday. I decided to go out to La Gringa and ended up spending a week there. It's has really changed since we were last here. I remember La Gringa from her simpler days, the days before her contemporary, high rise hotels were built, towering into her backdrop of blue sea and sky; before they broke up the tan landscapes looking west across the thin peninsula, where no one came. I remember the sand, south of Roberto's hut - the only permanent structure then - sand for miles; the myriad stingrays that idled and played there in the warm shallows. This was, of course, well before they built the first of the many piers that now house the hundreds of shops and restaurants that draw so many of us here today. Now we have a nice collection of tennis courts and lawn bowling instead of the open desert.

The bay was so quiet in those years. We listened to the gulls and pelicans working bait all night long. We were often the only ones here, for miles. The dolphin and seals patrolled a shore so pristine the sun's reflection was as bright and pure as the sun itself. Now, the bay is so full of docks, moorings, boats and ships that you can hardly see the water at all.

This morning I disposed of two dead pelicans from the tiny strip of sand that has yet to become populated with some other tourist attraction - the last open 25 feet of beachline on the entire bay. The Great Grey Herons that once lived in the lagoon, the egrets are gone. A parking lot leveled and filled that tiny void. The green reeds and delicate water plants that were here have been replaced by curbed and manicured planters housing fichus that can, ignored by man, survive the heat. The old dirt road that used to lead northward to Las Cuevitas is now an international airport, bringing the thousands of visitors here weekly from the north and east. It is quite an accomplishment. La Gringa has become the new Cabo.

It's quite realistic, really; it's much closer to the border by car or by plane than the cape. And the money has been rolling in since the development was begun, just a year or two ago. Property values are through the roof. The place is really thriving. Remember back, in the early mornings, when the tide was out, we used to sit alone, just here, and inhale the sweet smell of seaweed, drying on the stones? Now in the morning we are treated to the oily stench of breakfasts, prepared for thousands, and to the rancid dankness of diesel from the hundreds of boats that pull in or out throughout the day. It's a good thing there's often a strong breeze here; else the fumes would choke a horse.

The La Gringa spit, where we used to walk arm-in-arm collecting small shells is still here of course. They've built a concrete breakwater that is much tougher than the natural gravel bar that had served for so long. The breakwater, like the piers along the beach, is packed with tourist businesses. It's rather nice, from either the beach or the breakwater you can look toward the other front and in the evenings see the thousand lights strung along the waterfront, reflecting off the ocean, when you can catch a glimpse of it. The Mariachi's play in the small streets until midnight. After that the discos rule, loud throbbing and raw music pulsing off the dance floor, out the open windows and into the night air where previously we had camped on smooth round stones, just north of the old pier. There was never a sound in those days except a few lapping melodies caused as the small waves raked the stones. Back then we went to bed early, sweethearts, children, friends. Only a few of us endured the hardships of the myriad stars and satellites. Now, with all the new activities, I am the one finding an early bedtime. Speaking of which? On the way back to my room on the tenth floor of the La Gringa Ritz-Carlton I spotted a single pelican, squatting alone, along an unattended place on one of the boardwalks. He wasn't supposed to be there, the folks here don't like the messes they make. Doesn't he know he not supposed to be there? Doesn't he know his place in the order of things?

I'll be home soon.

All my love,

Michael

Eli - 9-13-2005 at 02:07 PM

Yeah Mike, it fits, good reading as usual. Love that Pelican, great touch.

I said goodbye to my paradise lost in "81" when Club Med started building out at Catch 22, North of Guaymas. I won't look back, just keep on trucking down to the next isolated beach, there is always another one over the hortizon.

ursidae69 - 9-13-2005 at 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pokey
The only setback to baja development that I can see is the lack of water. Much of baja is ejido controlled but that doesn't matter much because President Fox has given ejidos the right to obtain clear titles to ejido land inorder to sell it.

Either way, I see baja only going down hill from here on out. There is so much coastal land available and so many North Americans who want a piece of it that baja will eventually resemble California. With meaningless zoning laws and endless greed the controlling factors; overdevelopment is a sure thing.

Great topic. I have to agree with pokey here, the water will be the driving force in most development or lack thereof.

I'm just glad I started exploring Baja in 2002 when a good friend led me on my first trip there. I hope I can see more before it all changes.

20 years is a long time.

Sharksbaja - 9-13-2005 at 03:38 PM

Hope you're wrong Mike, but I'm from So. Cal. so............................................................oh crap! :no:

New idea

Talk like it already happened!

comitan - 9-13-2005 at 03:46 PM

I think the most important thing is to take changes in stride don't cry over spilled milk, just go on accept the changes because its part of life. If you can't adjust you'll end up being one unhappy idividual.

bajajudy - 9-13-2005 at 03:57 PM

I agree 100% Comitan but it sure is hard somtimes.
I keep telling myself that my property here will be worth a lot of money and I can move on.....well, you know what, I thought that this was my last move. Ah well the best laid plans.......

Lets see whats left?............
I think that you will have to go real far south to find what Baja was. I have no idea specifically where. Any ideas. Are we all northern hemisphere people here?

Skeet/Loreto - 9-13-2005 at 06:13 PM

You are right that La Paz is Growing, but I think in a different way than Cabo ot San Jose. It just seems to be more for the Well to do americano than the Explorers?Beach tyoe. I am real interested in the Units planned on the Hill above the Hotel marina.

Still the Key to Loreto and all locations will be "Water, Water, Water"

From 1068 to 2000 I had the best of Loreto, Sea Of Cortez. I do not regret Leaving LOreto. Now I am in the Texas Panhandle where I can see for miles. Yesterday a few miles North a 6 Point Bull Elk in a large Pasture, {got lost I guess]. No big Cities, Good clean Air/Water and Great People. Only 15 minutes to Walmart. another Paradise.

Skeet

capn.sharky - 9-13-2005 at 08:04 PM

Wow, Skeet---you have been going to Loreto a long time. From 1068 to 2000--or did you mean 1968? I have seen more growth in the past five years in Loreto that in the total 30 prior years. However, to answer some of the questions above, the town fathers wish to keep the growth mainly to the south in the Nopolo area. The long range plans are to turn the downtown area into a tourist area and slowly move the mexican population to the surrounding areas like Zaragosa, Mira Mar, etc. Being able to control the growth areas is the key to their success. They are still working over the master plan for Loreto. And, yes, the problem will be water, water, water. Also, manageing the black water is a problem. Loreto is still isolated from the other big towns and will probably always be a bit more expensive when it comes to goods and supplies needed. Is Baja really any different in growth than other areas? Seems like there are just more people wherever you go. Hope you and the Mrs. are doing well and enjoying good health.

movinguy - 9-13-2005 at 08:29 PM

Quote:

I said goodbye to my paradise lost in "81" when Club Med started building out at Catch 22, North of Guaymas. I won't look back, just keep on trucking down to the next isolated beach, there is always another one over the hortizon.

But - the Club Med is gone and the property is empty (last year, anyway). Maybe all hope is not lost . . . :coolup:

Bajaboy - 9-13-2005 at 09:03 PM

I think the water issue will work itself out...either through desalinization or the like...there's just too much money at hand. Look at Southern California...it's just as dry.

Also, I hear many people complain about how much growth is occuring in Baja while at the same time asking where they can find a Costco or when will a certain town have a Pemex with realiable gas deliveries. The more comfortable Baja becomes, the greater the chances of urban sprawl...Baja style.

To be honest, I miss the days of praying there will be gas at El Rosario or whether there will be ice at Gonzaga Bay. The more uncertainty involved, the greater the adventure to be had. The good old days....
Zac

David K - 9-13-2005 at 09:13 PM

Here, here... Zac! :biggrin:

To the 'good old days'!!!

Mike Humfreville - 9-13-2005 at 10:08 PM

we all have our own hopes for Baja. I hope the folks that live there win. If I thought for a minute my presence there was not for their best I'd be gone.

bajaden - 9-13-2005 at 10:58 PM

I can't add much to what has been said. I can only hope that whoever follows in the footsteps of those already here, will care as much and try to help as much. I think that despite our occasional disagreements, most on this board have the best interests for baja and the people here. I'm not trying to get sappy on all of you, and I'm sure some would disagree, not wanting to get lumped in the same boat with others. I listen carefully to what all of you say, and how at times you disagree. You all seem to want the same thing. You sometimes just can't agree on the solution. As Bill Murray said in a forgetable movie. Tiny steps, tiny steps. Thats all folks.

2frogs - 9-14-2005 at 06:22 AM

I agree...Guatamala people are great BUT the government is not! A friend's high official husband was chopped up in little pieces some years ago and I don't think it's improved much. At least we used to feel safe in Costa Rica. As to Club Med out of San Carlos...it was taken over by Paridisio Resort...if I spelled that right. They are trying to make a go of it, but we found it mostly a locals vacation spot, not much going on, way out of town (which isn't bad, but need a car) the BEACH was beautiful. I'd live in San Carlos as it's so beautiful BUT the heat UGH Thought we had our lives all planned out in Costa Rica, just shows it can change on a dime. Now it's toooo many dimes

Ha! Ha!

Skeet/Loreto - 9-14-2005 at 06:54 AM

Bay of Los Angeles andLoreto will never be the same as the Americano influence at The Bay has been much more concentrated than at Loreto. There is an overpowering of Americanos to Mexicanos.

Loreto has only seen fast Growth in the past 5 or 6 years.

If you are ever in Loreto when they have a good heavyRain, the water comes down through town and fills the Sumps on the malacon you will observe the type of Waste system and its operation.

My last Trip to La Paz, I did a Small investigation into the future of "good Real Estate Values" and their future
In my Opinion La Paz will grow slower and for me better than other areas. If I invest it will be in La Paz.

There are still many pplaces in Baja sur that you can go and be isolated.

Skeet

Phil S - 9-14-2005 at 11:03 AM

Skeet. Recent information has come to my attention that Fonaturs McCarthy was seen climbing into his "jet" at the Portland Int'l airport several weeks ago. He was on a 'feasability study' trip to see if there were any options to bring the water of the Columbia River to Baja Sur. Also seen leaving about the same time in their private jets were the govenors of Oregon & Washington. So there must have been some kind of "conference" between the three parties Some of you may scoff at the ludicrous idea this is, but I would challenge you to read "The Caddilac Desert" by Marc Reisner and also the "A dangerous place by Marc Reisner (Though written some years ago, I was able to buy them earlier this year) What an eye opener reading about how Los Angeles as able to get "their drinking water". Read these, then you'll see what Fonatur was thinking. With water from the Columbia, there will no longer be any "water problems for development in Baja Sur, Skeet. And since Los Angeles has all the water from the surrounding states tied up, McCarthy has to go to the Columbia for the source. (happy reading)

backninedan - 9-14-2005 at 11:21 AM

I lived in Oregon for 30 years prior to retiring to Loreto and want to put my name on the scoffers list, this just plain isnt going to happen. There are Oregonians that have been fighting for Columbia water rights for years. There would be screams like you cant believe from the tribes located on the Columbia, and with the advent of casinos and the new one planned for the gorge, the tribes pack considerable political wallop. Be interesting to see what happens.

Sharksbaja - 9-14-2005 at 12:04 PM

Dan's right. Don't believe it. The folks in Oregon would NEVER adhere to such a concept let alone part with our precious H2O. Remember, we have our own water woes and periodic droughts in some parts.

[Edited on 9-14-2005 by Sharksbaja]

Cincodemayo - 9-14-2005 at 12:39 PM

Just think of the possibilities if they got their water straight from the Hanford Reservation area....what a GLOWING idea.

If an aircraft carrier can produce over 900,000 gallons a day from Seawater desal plants are the answer....

Sharksbaja - 9-14-2005 at 12:45 PM

shhhhhhhhhh, they might be listening!

vandenberg - 9-14-2005 at 02:03 PM

Cinco

A carrier that produces that much fresh water is probably nuclear powered. Don't think Baja is ready for that yet. Hard enough to keep the power going for more then 2 days at a time :bounce:

Cincodemayo - 9-14-2005 at 02:16 PM

Vandenburg....
Good point and I'm certain that a Nuclear reactor in Baja wouldn't go over well

rpleger - 9-14-2005 at 02:40 PM

?Why Not? They work.

Cincodemayo - 9-14-2005 at 02:42 PM

That would give the Mexican Government technology to start producing yellow cake.... :lol:

JZ - 9-14-2005 at 02:58 PM

Boy, this is one time I don't miss JR. We can actually have a civil discussion on this topic. Man, he would have wrecked this thread 3 posts in.

As for Club Med in San Carlos, it has re-opened as the Paradiso. And no one could credibly say that it has ruined the place. San Carlos is still extremely sleepy, and you only have to go up the coast a few miles to be in the middle of nowhere in complete isolation.

[Edited on 9-14-2005 by JZ]

Skeet/Loreto - 9-14-2005 at 06:14 PM

Phil Do you remember when they were going to cut up the Icebergs up North and ship them to Long Beach for Water. It came close to happening!!

Instead of the columbia river I have for a long time been talking about the Canadians shipping water through the Colorado, US uses it for Power, transports it to Baja, Baja builds a Pipe Line to La Paz.
I think it would be better than to hassle with all the States. It can be done!

Skeet

2frogs - 9-14-2005 at 07:27 PM

I think I just stated that the Club Med was now the Paradiso, but don't recall saying it had ruined the place???? San Carlos is great...just so hot! Prices are rising very fast as well.

JZ - 9-14-2005 at 07:48 PM

I wasn't referring to your post!, sorry. There was another post on the subject in this thread. An example of everyone wanting to freeze in time the place from the moment they discover it. San Carlos is a good example of reasonable development with plenty of pristine nature left-over.

2frogs - 9-15-2005 at 06:49 AM

Oh, thanks JZ, I didn't want to give people the wrong info. Yep, I agree about SC, but the latest postings about developement worry us. One more thing.... can't they turn down the thermostat Ha! Ha! Baja is looking better and better because of the weather. :bounce:

Phil S - 9-15-2005 at 08:27 AM

If anyone reads "The Cadillac Desert" you'll find that anything can be done by just "pouring" enough money into the project. The Bureau of Reclamation was competing with the Corp of Engineers back in the late 1800's & early to mid 1900's as to who gets to dam up "a" river to get water to the L.A. basin . Pulling an iceburg down sort of rings a bell, Skeet. But I can't remember anything anymore, after the "last bell" fell on my head!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited on 9-15-2005 by Phil S]

bajaden - 9-15-2005 at 09:39 AM

Nuclear reactor. Thats just what we need. Next thing you know the United States will invade because bomb making ability. How about a train first.

Eli - 9-15-2005 at 10:01 AM

JZ & 2frogs, thanks for the information, truly it is pertainent to me even to this date what happens there.

I am so glad to hear that San Carlos took the slow track and that big development didn't destroy the tranquility of the beaches to the North. I had images in my head of giant towering hotels and sub-divisions full of fancy big homes blocking my favorite beaches. Los Algadones sure has some fine sand dunes to sit up and gaze out over the sea. The bushes behind the dunes created perfect little private alcoves out of the wind to camp in. Me and a few folks and the rattle snakes just loved it back in those bushes.

When I left La Manga in the mid 80's there were 800 albanils from all over Mexico wandering the beaches. Some good guys, a lot of rough necks. "My" beach had become a mess, one could no longer sleep out in the open at night. The population within a 10 km. radius of my camp jumped from 20 locals to 80 folks and than within a month to the 800 guys that blew me away. That was a rough year.

Someday, I would like to cross over and go sit on the beach at La Manga, roll down the dune at Los Algandoes, see what is left of the Palmera, El Ojo de Agua, Espanoza's ranch.

The rancher was fighting Club Med tooth and nail for the rights to keep his ranch where it was there in the Palmera, never did find out who won.

The very mention of the place brings back floods of memories of a wonderful magical time, many more good than not, spent 8 winters and part of the summers camped on those beaches.

2frogs - 9-15-2005 at 10:23 AM

Eli, I hope you get your dream someday. You just have to make it happen. Life is short, so go for it. Of course I say that as I sit here waiting for my husband to retire Ha! Ha! 2 yrs. and we are outta here. It's a toss of the buck on the location we land. The beautiful waters of San Carlos are a huge draw, the mild weather we hear about around Rosarito is soothing and then friends retiring to Ajijec are tempting with the beautiful culture...just no ocean

Like I say....the toss of the buck will decide. Good luck on your adventures. :biggrin:

2frogs - 9-15-2005 at 10:31 AM

I've never understood water shortages with living on the ocean????

bajalera - 9-15-2005 at 10:50 AM

As a Washingtonian who has never lost my native-born-and-raised privileges, I hereby give my permission to channel half the Columbia's output to Baja, provided half the river's red salmon [wild, not pen-fed] are included in it.

reading Graham Mackintosh "Into a desert place"

eetdrt88 - 9-15-2005 at 10:54 AM

the guy runs out of water so he boils seawater and collects the evaporated steam which turns into regular drinkable water and saves himself from dying of thirst...maybe they could do that on some sort of grand scale for desert areas close to the ocean :light:

vandenberg - 9-15-2005 at 01:23 PM

Like running a still ??? :?:

Sharksbaja - 9-15-2005 at 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalera
As a Washingtonian who has never lost my native-born-and-raised privileges, I hereby give my permission to channel half the Columbia's output to Baja, provided half the river's red salmon [wild, not pen-fed] are included in it.

Are there some left? :no:

Not a great year I'm afraid.

Eli - 9-15-2005 at 03:24 PM

Yep, 2frogs, got a shacel full of dreams, who knows which one I will pull out next. But, going back for a brief visit to Guyamas is in there, who knows, maybe someday.

Lots of Pie in that Sky

MrBillM - 9-15-2005 at 04:00 PM

Having gone up to the mountains for a couple of days, I see I haven't missed a lot, but these pie-in-the-sky water solutions are certainly good for a few laughs.

There is ZERO chance that ANY water from the Pacific Northwest or Canada will EVER be sold to Baja California. The future need for water here in the Western U.S. will not even be satisfied and the U.S. Congress would never allow any scheme that would send water south of the border. Any Representative from a western state who would vote for such a proposal would be defeated, if not recalled.

Forgetting the political considerations, I wonder how Skeet's Canadian plan would work. Does not the Colorado River originate in the Colorado Rockies ? That's a bit of a distance from the Canadian border.

Those solar stills mentioned have been around for a long, long time. During WWII, they were included in military survival supplies. Obviously, they aren't efficient enough to use on a large-scale basis OR someone would be using them. Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States utilize huge salt water conversion faciilities, but they aren't using that concept.

Skeet/Loreto - 9-15-2005 at 06:34 PM

Bill m; Look at the map above
GLen Canyon and the connections which have already been made.

Canada Sells Water to mexico/ Canada ships water via Glen Canyon, Lake Mead, which is used to produce Electric Power; Water then goes to mexico

skeet

comitan - 9-15-2005 at 06:51 PM

:?:

2frogs - 9-15-2005 at 07:39 PM

Whoa....well, I like the still idea

...Okay....splain to me how Catalina Island can do it but Baja can't :light:

I'm just tossing out questions here because it really puzzles me that in this day and age we have not solved these fuel and water issues. Or I should say it makes me mad that it stands in the way. :!:

We're surrounded by it :bounce:

Dos Ranas

MrBillM - 9-15-2005 at 08:09 PM

The discussion referenced "Solar Stills". Catalina Island doesn't. The primary method of saltwater to freshwater conversion is reverse osmosis. The costs are substantial. In Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc. those costs are meaningless. Catalina Island is also some pretty expensive real estate.

One cost breakdown from the World Bank as of 1996 that I saw quoted operational costs of water production at $1.60 to $2.70 per cubic meter (220 Gals). Construction and maintenance costs not included would be in the millions or tens of millions for a significant facility. Desalinization at a tourist resort might be feasible, but not for the average Mex or Gringo.
Large scale desalinization facilities have been considered and rejected by numerous major cities in the U.S. due to the costs involved.

As for Skeetster's Canadian fantasy, I haven't looked at the map, but I am skeptical. Regardless of his assertions, the idea that the U.S. would allow transshipment is ludicrous. It will NEVER happen. He is right that we allow water to flow into Mexico via the Colorado as required by International law, but we don't give them a gallon more than those treaties require, at least not intentionally.

An additional consideration for large-scale desalinization projects is disposal of the salt brine.

[Edited on 9-16-2005 by MrBillM]

Heres' why....

Sharksbaja - 9-15-2005 at 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2frogs
Whoa....well, I like the still idea

...Okay....splain to me how Catalina Island can do it but Baja can't?

----------

HON. ELTON GALLEGLY

in the House of Representatives

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 10, 1991

Mr. GALLEGLY. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to salute the new Hamilton Cove desalination plant, which has begun providing freshwater to my constituents on Catalina Island. Not only is the plant the first on the West Coast that converts seawater into drinking water, it also represents an unprecedented partnership between public and private interests.

At a cost of $3 million, the plant provides 132,000 gallons of freshwater a day, almost one-third of the island's annual water consumption. Because Catalina Island has been particularly hard hit by California's drought, this plant is especially welcome.

I am also pleased that it was built as a joint venture by a private developer, the Whitehawk Partnership, and a public utility, Southern California Edison. By building the plant, Whitehawk was able to build its Hamilton Cove development, and the residents of Catalina Island now have a crucial source of water to help meet their needs during dry periods such as this.

In addition, the reverse osmosis technology used at Hamilton Cove may prove invaluable to mainland Californians in the future as many communities are considering building desalination plants to help meet their water needs.

Mr. Speaker, I ask my colleagues to join me in saluting the Whitehawk Partnership and Southern California Edison for working together for their community"
-------

It really helps to have politicians and mega corps in on it. In todays dollars adjusted, a small desalinator would probably run 7-10 million but factor in the installation, maintenance and fuel cost(Catalina runs on deisel) to power it and the costs become cost prohibitive I would imagine

It sure looks good on paper though.

----------------

How' this sound?:

It seems to me the water from evaporation from the Guererro negro salt works would equal a large sum if it could be collected as condensates. Also incorporate photovoltaic panels. The Japanese(sic) could do it, they love that repetitive large scale operation stuff.

2frogs - 9-16-2005 at 07:55 AM

I knew that Catalina wasn't running a still :tumble:

Ha! Ha! And thank you for the rest of the information as I learned a lot. I'm stubborn and still think we should have these problems solved by now and that it could be politics? Call me crazy. :!:

I liked what I read in the House of Rep. article. Maybe it hits close to home as we are on water rations every year as our water flows down stream. :mad:

Take it easy, all this talk about water made me thirsty. :tumble:

bajaden - 9-16-2005 at 11:10 PM

This is way too serious for me. My brain, whats left of it is hurting. People are running stills with solor power. Salmon are going to travel from Oregon to baja via some imaginary canal from the Columbia river. Hell, why don't we divert the missippi while were at it. Lets float some icebergs down to keep the salmon cool. Im sorry. I don't mean to make light of all this. I've probably had too much to drink. Two glasses of milk and a few mangos will make anyone delusional.

bajaden - 9-16-2005 at 11:13 PM

Thats what I get for not reading what I wrote. Heavens, I'm from Missouri. Its Mississippi. Spent many a day fishing on that river.

2frogs - 9-17-2005 at 07:10 AM

That explains it....the show me state :biggrin:

Just teasin' I used to live in a marina out of St. Charles, Mo. Did lots of fishin' myself. :bounce:

Water Makers/Desal Devices are available....

Bedman - 9-18-2005 at 12:38 AM

West Marine has one for aboats that produces 160 gallons per day..

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductD...

PowerSurvivor 160E Watermaker
The PowerSurvivor 160E is a great choice for boaters who have larger demands for water but still want the compactness, simplicity, and reliability PUR units are known for. Just slightly larger than the model 80E, the 160E produces nearly twice the water at 6.7 GPH. Less complicated than comparable watermakers, the 160E means a lot of water with minimum attention and hassle.
? Weighs 36 lbs
? Limited 3-year warranty
? Flow Rate: 6.7gph, 160 gal./day max
? Running Draw: 18A@12V DC
? Ports: 1/2"ID inlet, 1/2"ID brine outlet, 1/4"ID product water
? Dimensions: Motor/Pump?13.5"W x 17.5"D x 6.5"H
? Membrane?25"L x 3.5"dia

Bedman

Water Problems

Skeet/Loreto - 9-18-2005 at 07:47 AM

There is another problem looming in the future.

the San Joaquin River in Central- Calif A Trial is set to Start to force Water back into the river so that a few Salmon may Return.
Unless something is done to solve the Problem anywhere people are going to "Group Up" there will be future problems such as the San Joaquin.
It might be interesting to do a back Ground on the Failed De-Salt Plant that was started in Los Bocanas on the pacific Side of Baja.
I think a German company was involved.
Why a De Salt Plant at that location??
Skeet

jerry - 9-18-2005 at 11:40 AM

wow a desalt mechine for about $4000 that makes 160 gal a day
thats cheep a city water hook up in podunk oregon with a water meter is more then that and the bill comes every month with solor panals and batteries sounds like its feasable to me now and it can open up a lot of places that werent befor have a good one jerry

Power Survivor

MrBillM - 9-18-2005 at 11:49 AM

Back when I kept my sailboat in San Diego Bay, I once met a cruiser who went South each November. He had a Power Survivor on board and loved it, especially when in the Sea of Cortez, BUT he noted that it was a very expensive way to make water. The frequency of maintenance required, including the cost of the maintenance kit (membrane, etc), was substantial for the amount of water produced.

About ten years ago (or so), a Japanese guy set the world record for the smallest boat ( 5' LOA) to cross the Pacific and he used the smallest of the Survivor line, a manual unit, to supply the required Fresh Water on the voyage.

comitan - 9-18-2005 at 11:50 AM

Jerry

Alot of solar panels to supply 18amps DC is that a 24hr day?

jerry - 9-18-2005 at 12:10 PM

if it produced 50 or 60 gal a day would be enoff for a household pretty comfortable say 8 hours a daylight i dont know about the upkeep and maintenence?? but its sounding realistic or maybe i should say that its sounding like its getting close to the citys price
ok all you brains out there how many solar panels will it take to produce 18 amps 12 DC and batteries for 8 hr. a day?? have a good one jerry

Rapid Spray Evaporation

Sharksbaja - 9-18-2005 at 01:24 PM

Here is the a solution I've looked at earlier. Technologies are emerging that could do high-volume utility output for small cities, towns.

What say you Marv?

Rapid Spray Evaporation (RSE?) reduces the cost of seawater desalination and brine discharge treatment by 50% to 90%, while doubling freshwater production, according to AquaSonics International, the US company that developed the patented process.

http://aquasonics.com/tech.html

comitan - 9-18-2005 at 01:50 PM

Sharks
The Rapid Spray Evaporation sure looks good on paper.

Well, many somebodies

Gypsy Jan - 9-18-2005 at 02:24 PM

are betting big time on big growth on the so-called "Gold Coast" between Playas de TJ and Ensenada.

Playa Blanca (just south of Playas TJ) and surroundings have websites and ads promoting huge "quality living, fully self-contained resort communities".

There are two separate high rise towers finishing out and taking deposits near Fox Studios/Popotla, (despite the court fight about land ownership concerning one of them).

Calafia (the tower) is building a second one.

Calafia (the hotel) is building a tower.

Club Marena is finishing out the rebuild of the burned tower and building a fourth one.

Montebello (?, not sure of name, but Coldwell Banker has offices there) is building a high rise.

Between there and La Fonda, there are several developments building busily away, including the new Polo Club, which will host a meet in October.

That's not even to mention the Baja Las Vegas development near Bajamar and the Ventanas al Mar in the zona de fallas on the road to Ensenada.

As Skeet has said, "Where is the water?" and, by inference, where's the infrastructure and services to support all this?"

Myself, knowing the history of the burnout at Club Marena, I would never, ever live in or own a property over three stories high. And I certainly would never, ever live in a complicated, high rise building that requires a reliance on the proper maintenance skills and dedication of others.

Joelt - 9-18-2005 at 02:30 PM

Jerry Volts X Amps = Watts.
12 volts X 18 amps = 228 watts per Hr. X 8Hrs = 1824 watts per 8 hrs.
Then it all depends on the size of the panels and batterys.
I think that if you are just going to run it durring daylight hours that you may be able to get by without the batterys. Just run it off the panels and some kind of a voltage regularor maybe. Your still looking at about $1000 or more for two 150 watt panels. I haven't priced them lately. Still in the long run it may be worth it. I like the idea of being off the grid.

jerry - 9-18-2005 at 05:02 PM

thanks i think id use the batteries anyway to act as sinks to store power and as regulators supplying a constant flow to the desal plant as well as useing it for other power in a houshold lets just say $1500 for panels and batteries $4000 for desal plant total$5,500 pluse operating costs?? think it will run more then your water bill?? and you have a power that you can use for the houshold with a holding tank i think your set now dig in a septic satilite tv phone and computerlink and all you need is tequela a sweetheart,big garden a good boat and my gasahol still to be self suffecent perhaps im getting carried away but i think it can be done with some intuition and resurch the tecnoligie is moving pretty fast have a good one jerry

2frogs - 9-19-2005 at 08:19 AM

Well, I'm excited to read all these ideas! Maybe you all will have the problems solved by the time we move there :yes:

I'm with you on the high rise buildings. FORGET IT....we were living on the 11th during an earthquake in downtown Portland. Don't like that feeling. My husband is an ex-volunteer fireman...enough said. So, I'll stay on one level and hope for water He! He! You all keep up the good brain storming :light:

2frogs - 9-19-2005 at 08:35 AM

Pampano, thank you for all that good info. I'm saving this for my husband. We lived very isolated in Costa Rica and had a generator for ER, don't know how much roughing it I want to do in the future. But, it doesn't sound like you are roughing it????I remember just the sound of the generator drove me nuts. I don't know that I understand everything you explained, so I'll wait for my husband to translate Ha! Ha! Thank you for taking the time to write. :yes:

jerry - 9-19-2005 at 08:56 AM

hea pompano what would your system cost today?? thanks for the info jerry

2frogs - 9-19-2005 at 08:56 AM

FISH....oh, do I love the sound of that! More good info. and thanks. Probably be asking you questions after my husband reads this :bounce:

Have a great 'sunny' day. :biggrin:

the future face of baja??

eetdrt88 - 9-19-2005 at 09:44 AM

rpleger - 9-19-2005 at 11:42 AM

Atomics.....thats the future

Joelt - 9-19-2005 at 01:59 PM

I just bought a small system with 6 165 watt panels, 8 6v. batterys and a 3500 watt inverter with a charge controller for under $10,000. It should be enough to handle our needs for now since we mostly only need refrigeration and lights. Just able to spend a couple of weeks at a time now.

Al G - 9-19-2005 at 02:10 PM

I expect the price of solor to come down soon.
They have just developed cells with output at twice the old cells.
As I remember there is a shortage of silcon? I may have heard this on this board.
Al

Skeet/Loreto - 9-19-2005 at 06:30 PM

Thanks for the Info. Skeet