BajaNomad

Copper Canyon

LaRibereņa - 10-9-2005 at 05:03 PM

Going from East Cape to Copper Canyon later this month. Anyone have any tips/information/hints for us? I'm stoked!

bajajudy - 10-9-2005 at 05:44 PM

You will love it. We had a wonderful time and the entire train ride is beautiful.
My favorite place was the Hotel Mision in Cerocahui. We took a long walk up to some cascades through green pastures, jumping back and forth over the creek below the cascades.
I could go on and on as it was one of those trips that you can daydream about for years to come but............. Instead I will u2u about it. I wish you could attach photos on u2u's as I just catalogued all of those photos and have them easy to upload.

Are you starting from Los Mochis...great seafood.
Are you going all the way to Chihuahua....interesting town for a day.

You should be stoked!

bajajudy - 10-9-2005 at 05:45 PM

Oh I have to do one more

Copper Canyon

LaRibereņa - 10-9-2005 at 05:54 PM

Judy, check your U2U. :-)

dug - 10-9-2005 at 07:06 PM

In 2000 I guided for Adventure Specialist in the Copper Canyon. They have supported treks or horse trips. It is a marvelous trip and I recommend it no matter how you go.

http://www.adventurespecialists.org/

Braulio - 10-9-2005 at 10:36 PM

Elizabeth - If you're going to spend the night in Los Mochis check out the Hotel El Dorado - they're running a promotion for 350 pesos a night for a double through the end of October. I'd give it 3 stars - they have a pool and it's pretty well-situated.

I'd plan to spend a day sight seeing in Los Mochis - it's a neat city. U2u me if you need suggestions.

Topolobampo is pretty dead.

vandenberg - 10-10-2005 at 07:17 AM

Question ??

Is there a way to do that trip by road ,or is it strictly a train trip ?

KurtG - 10-10-2005 at 08:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
Question ??

Is there a way to do that trip by road ,or is it strictly a train trip ?

Hundreds of motorcyclists do it every year and many 4x4's as well. www.rosensrides.com is a good site for info.

wilderone - 10-10-2005 at 10:06 AM

The areas accessible by vehicle, and the areas accessed by train are different but the same!!! For instance, you can get to Batopilas, traveling through one of the canyons from Creel, on a local bus - and Batopilas is not accessible by train. A totally awesome trip. The train ride through the canyon is another way to see the canyons in one day. You can stop off at one of the towns and stay overnight and ride a horse down into a canyon or hike. Multiple ways to see the canyons, but if you want a closer look at the towns, you need to get off the train and stay awhile.

Neal Johns - 10-10-2005 at 10:25 AM

I have led two free trips to Copper Canyon (really a several canyon area) from So. Calif.
You see a lot more because the train ride does not get into the bottom and only gives you a peek down from El Divisidero. That said, it is worth it if you can't do it with a 4x4 or high clearance 2wd.

4x4 Route with stops/points of interest:

Start So. Calif.
Cross border at Douglas, AZ
Janos
Casas Grandes - Paquime museum
Colonia Juarez - Mormon Colony, friendly bi-lingual folks
Mata Ortiz - Home of Juan Quesada and Casas Grandes pottery
Madera - Ruinas Cuarenta Casas
Basaseachik Falls - almost 1000 feet
Creel
Cusarare Falls - short, pretty hike
La Bufa - Bottom of Cyn. Batapilas
Batapilas - Read "Silver Magnet by Sheperd
Satevo - Lost Mission
Back to Creel
El Divisadero - Peek into Urique Cyn.
Bahuichivo
Urique - Bottom of Urique Cyn.
Back to Bahuichivo
Temoris
Chinipas - on Chinipas river
San Bernardo
Alamos - Old Colonia Capital with restored gringo Haciendas
Navojoa - Hwy. 15 north
Hermosillo
Sonoita/Lukevile USA
So. Calif.

More info, pictures:
http://www.desertexplorers.org/tr-cucyn99/cucyn.htm

http://www.desertexplorers.org/ccfotos.htm

http://www.desertexplorers.org/patvirg.htm

http://www.desertexplorers.org/hughes.htm

[Edited on 10-10-2005 by Neal Johns]

bajaden - 10-10-2005 at 11:06 AM

Hey Neal, if you ever lead another trip, let me know. I would love to go. That goes for you to Judy. Hey the cervesa's are on me.

Neal Johns - 10-10-2005 at 11:13 AM

Bajaden, too bad I only drink Mountain Dew!
It may be a while before we go again, Marian is taking me four wheeling in Australia next spring for 45 days.
I married well.:lol:

Flash! She says I have to pay my own way. Ouch!

Barry A. - 10-10-2005 at 11:28 AM

The Copper Canyon complex (like Neal says, many canyons) is huge, and there are not that many roads. So if you go via your own vehicle, allow lots of time as we are talking lots of miles just to see the various sites. Although the train ride is absolutely spactacular (dozens and dozens of tunnels and views), Neil is right that only at Divisadero can you actually see into the "Copper Canyon". I went on a Tour put on by "The California Native" company out of Los Angeles, and we made the train our main access, but stopped at several places and took vans into remote villages, both in the canyons and outside them, and spent most of the time working out of haciendas, on both horse and by van. We spent 11 days actually there, and we barely scratched the surface. The "California Native" Tour is/was GREAT. We started in El Fuerte (spending the night), just east of Las Mochis, and also stayed in Creel and Chihuahua City, all fantastic. Spent 2 nights in Batopilas in the bottom of the canyon. The rest of the time we were in haciendas out in the countryside and on the rim of the canyons.

Copper Canyon, tho much different than the Grand Canyon, is a must see. Just take enough time to do it right. Barry

Neal Johns - 10-10-2005 at 05:13 PM

Barry A. is right, take your time. We took about 16 days, but could have spent several more. Unlike Barry, since we were not on a train schedule, and we mostly camped wherever nightfall found us. One night, in the boonies, we were camped alongside the road when a hayride passed us after dark! Much whooping and laughter from both sides. At that same place, our Husky went nose to nose with a teenaged burro - with both backing away. It's a great trip and only a few words of Spanish is necessary. Gracias and de nada go a long ways.

David K - 10-10-2005 at 05:23 PM

Great!!! Say Neal, what is this you typed?: 'Satevo - Lost Mission':?:

Are you teasing me???:tumble:

I was a small kid when my parents took me on the train through the canyon to Los Mochis about 1962-64... Just after it was finished I think? I remember many parts, lots of bridges and tunnels... train hit a cow and we all got off to see... Indian villages... Pretty sights... Toured Pancho Villa's hacienda in Chihuahua at one point in that trip...

bajajudy - 10-10-2005 at 05:33 PM

Well, I guess, as with most things, the train is what you make of it. We got off and adventured down into the valley at Urique and met some wonderful people. Everytime we got off we did something different. A hike, a horseride, a ride to the bottom, whatever we felt like. I really enjoyed the train trip but then I love trains.
The following is a photo of the Temoris switchtback. You see yourself coming and going, they say

Neal Johns - 10-10-2005 at 06:00 PM

David K, the mission is "Lost" because the records of its construction have not been found. Hard to believe the church records somewhere do not exist. It is five miles downstream from the silver mining town of Batapilas. The first time I was there (20 years ago), you had to hike in. That same trip I hiked from Batapilas to Urique, about five thousand feet elevation gain and then loss. I must have been crazy. Or younger.... nah..

Neal and David and Judy-----

Barry A. - 10-10-2005 at 07:48 PM

Judy----great pic, and the way you describe things is the way we did it too.

Neil------as I am sure you know, you can drive to Urique now, which we did. Great town, but lots of "drug money" (MJ) there, and the fancy vehicles were much in evidence.

David------as Neal says, the Mission's (Satevo) papers are missing, which is really surprising as it is a substantial mission. When we were there about 7 years ago, the road was restricted to locals, and we had to hike there from Batopilas, but it was well worth it. It is an easy hike, mostly level, and the scenery is great. There is an abandoned "hacienda" (partially in ruins) just up stream from Batopilas that is absolutely incredible in size and scope----built by the silver baron, I believe. You have to kind of sneak in, but it is worth it, and you can easily spend a day there just poking around. The caretaker, after scolding us for sneaking in, gave us an all day tour of the place that was great. I know that there was much more to see in that area than we ever saw. It is HUGE!!!!

David K - 10-10-2005 at 07:58 PM

Awesome!!!

Thanks!!!

Neal Johns - 10-10-2005 at 09:43 PM

Grant Sheperd, the son of the gringo that ran The Batopilas silver mines, wrote "Silver Magnet" which is the story of his growing up there in the mansion/hacienda. After reaching adulthood, Grant ran them. It was facinating to sit and watch the guys and gals prominade around the same square in the plaza as he did. We are talking about 1900. The whole town was built from material "trucked" in by muleback. This includes the hydroelectric plant which is still running 100 years later! The road was built around 1965 or so. The silver was taken out by mule caravan guarded by Pancho Villa before the Revolution!

We ran into the owner/caretaker who lives next door and got the tour of the hacienda without the scolding. Very friendly fellow. Anyone going there is welcome to come camp in my house and read the 1938 book. It is too hard to come by to loan it out. Oops, I just checked and it was reissued in 1999 and is available for $40 - $50.

[Edited on 10-11-2005 by Neal Johns]

DianaT - 10-17-2005 at 10:35 AM

We took the train many years ago from Chichuhua to Los Mochis with stops along the way. The main street in Creel was still dirt. It was fantastic.

This year, following some of Neal John's route, we returned to Creel with our small trailer. We didn't stay long as we were headed further south. Also, we missed going to Batopilas because we were having freezing problems with our trailer--it was going to stay in Creel. We hope to do Batopilas next month.

Just wanted to share a few photos of going that way. Oh, much to our surprise, the road from Nuevo Casas Grandes to Mata Ortiz is now paved! So if you want some of the BEAUTIFUL pottery, go now--the tour buses are increasing in number.

Diane

Mata Ortiz Pottery Maker

DianaT - 10-17-2005 at 10:37 AM

Here is where we stayed in Nuevo Casas Grandes. It was free to park there behind Pisteleros----just buy a meal or two, and they are good.


DianaT - 10-17-2005 at 10:40 AM

The Tarahumara People at Divisidero---selling their wares. We drove there, but it is a major stop for the train.

DianaT - 10-17-2005 at 10:41 AM

People walking on the road beyond Divisidero.

Natalie Ann - 10-17-2005 at 11:06 AM

Photos - all of them stunning! Thank you to each of you.

Can anyone tell me how it is in this area during January? I've always wanted to see it and now have the opportunity to do so during our return from the Yucatan. I'm told by some that would be like going to the Sierras (in the US) in winter - is this correct? (don't really wanta haul my snowsuit along)

DianaT - 10-17-2005 at 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Natalie Ann
Photos - all of them stunning! Thank you to each of you.

Can anyone tell me how it is in this area during January? I've always wanted to see it and now have the opportunity to do so during our return from the Yucatan. I'm told by some that would be like going to the Sierras (in the US) in winter - is this correct? (don't really wanta haul my snowsuit along)


Well, when we were there the first part of March, it did dip below freezing at night, and yes, it can snow. Creel is about 7800 feet---just check things as you go. Also, the temperature goes up fast as you descend in elevation.

Have fun.
Diane

vandenberg - 10-17-2005 at 01:19 PM

JD

Will you be able to drive there with a regular low clearance car ??

DianaT - 10-17-2005 at 02:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vandenberg
JD

Will you be able to drive there with a regular low clearance car ??


Going to Casas Grandes, Mata Ortiz, Creel and Divisidero---no problem, they are all paved roads. If you don't want to take any of the dirt roads like down to Batopilas, I might suggest taking the highway 23 from Creel to Hidalgo del Parral----just some beautiful views!

Diane

Neal Johns - 10-17-2005 at 04:46 PM

Vandenberg,
I was a passenger in a two wheel drive van with 10 people in it my first trip to Batopilas. We had to stop and cool the brakes, but it is not a really rough road. Just don't ride the brakes and maybe stop halfway down to cool brakes and any automatic transmission.

vandenberg - 10-17-2005 at 05:37 PM

Neal


Thanks for that info. I think we will attempt this trip coming spring. Will take the Santa Rosalia Ferry and go from there. Thanks again you guys.

bajajudy - 10-17-2005 at 05:50 PM

There were so many hummingbirds at the Mirador hotel, you could not count them
I highly recommend the trip no matter how you do it.

Love the Copper Canyon!

MexicoTed - 10-18-2005 at 12:08 AM

I'll be heading down there in a month or so for my 6th trip in the last ten years. There's so much to see. Here's a couple photos from my last trip including Cerocahui and Gallego's peak overlooking Urique.


David K, the mission at Satevo is a must.

Natalie Ann, I have been there in winter and it can get cold (we had snow), but as soon as you hit the bottom of the canyon it was 65F.

Here's the mission at Cerocahui

[Edited on 10-18-2005 by MexicoTed]

Cerocahui

MexicoTed - 10-18-2005 at 12:09 AM

A footbridge in Cerocahui



[Edited on 10-18-2005 by MexicoTed]

Copper Canyon View

MexicoTed - 10-18-2005 at 12:12 AM

Gallego's Peak or Cerro de Gallego. Below is Urique and you can also see the native pathway to the bottom.

[Edited on 10-18-2005 by MexicoTed]

David K - 10-18-2005 at 09:04 AM

Ted those are great photos... What's happening with Baja Talk Radio? Although my computer is unable to receive the feed for some reason, I was wondering why the web site doesn't have a show listed for today...

I enjoyed the time on your show last year, and the fill in a couple weeks later. It is very wet today, why I am still online... no work for me!!! http://www.worldtalkradio.com/archive.asp?aid=2583