BajaNomad

Nice stone vessels and matates at San Borja

wilderone - 12-5-2005 at 11:20 AM

Jose, who is one of the caretakers at Mision San Borja, has been very industrious and is making volcanic metates, along with manos and hammerheads. They look just like the ancient ones. He is also carving large stone planters (I think it's a type of calcium carbonate aggregate) (or vessel). They are for sale (didn't ask how much), and would be awesome in a patio with a southwest theme. His work is excellent.

David K - 12-5-2005 at 06:24 PM

Jose and family... good people!


Photo taken in July, 2003.

David K - 12-5-2005 at 06:31 PM

Here's Jose on the roof of the mission in April, 2001.

Unless this has improved, Jose was locked out of the mission by a new preist in Guerrero Negro who banished Jose and family from the mission simply because they are not Catholic.

Wilderone, is Jose again allowed to show the mission? That would be great news, as he lives there!

Jesuit ?

jrbaja - 12-5-2005 at 07:32 PM

David K - 12-5-2005 at 11:14 PM

The mission was founded by the Jesuit order, yes... The stone church and associated buildings (that Jose is on the roof of) were built by the Dominicans.

Jose is a Christian, just not Roman Catholic... quite a shame as it is still the same God. Now, unless Catholic appointed Theodoro or another is there, the mission doors are locked.

Here is Theodoro and his dog who was recently bit by a rattler at San Borja...




[Edited on 12-6-2005 by David K]

S Borja

BAJACAT - 12-5-2005 at 11:58 PM

What happen with " can we all get alone ! ":saint::saint::saint:

bugdude - 12-6-2005 at 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K

Jose was locked out of the mission by a new preist in Guerrero Negro who banished Jose and family from the mission simply because they are not Catholic.



Such evil deeds could religion prompt.
Lucretius

It is a fine thing to establish one's own religion in one's heart, not to be dependent on tradition and second-hand ideals. Life will seem to you, later, not a lesser, but a greater thing.
D. H. Lawrence

[Edited on 11/12/2005 by bugdude]

wilderone - 12-6-2005 at 10:56 AM

I don't know the current status on Jose and his family being able to show the inside of the mission. There is plenty to see from outside the fence though. It looks like there are some new renovations to the OLD adobe mission ruins going on. I think it's always a great side trip regardless of being able to go inside the mission. You can walk around the cemetery, and the old stone walls go for a long way. The old grape plants are still there; the birding is great; they have nice palapas with fire rings; a well with good water; the friendly family to visit with.

jide - 12-6-2005 at 09:57 PM

Wilderone,
did you check out the hot(rather warm than hot) springs?

wilderone - 12-7-2005 at 09:51 AM

The time I was there before this trip (March 05), I stayed 2 nights and went to the warm pools. I was with someone who had not been to Montevideo, so we did that too. If they'd let me tend the goats or something, I could stay there indefinitely - I love it.

cymeryss - 12-22-2005 at 12:29 PM

I am planning to stop by San Borja on monday, for the night, going down to Loreto area. Where are those warm springs, and what else is there to see around the mission? Can one go inside of it?

wilderone - 12-22-2005 at 03:18 PM

The warm springs are on the premises at the far end of their fields. It's their private property, but if you ask about them, someone will take you there. If the people working on the mission renovation are there, they may be able to take you inside, otherwise, you can just see the outside which is impressive in itself. If you're interested in seeing the pictographs, someone from the family will be your guide to take you there in your vehicle - it's about 10 miles away. There's a little climbing to get to some of the caves - but certainly doable. If you're interested in birds, it's awesome. And you can hike over by the cemetary area and keep going into a canyon in that general direction - there's a trail.

elgatoloco - 12-22-2005 at 05:02 PM

If you do get inside you will see these stairs.

David K - 12-22-2005 at 06:53 PM

Bedman has some great photos of the mission (inside and out) beginning at http://vivabaja.com/bedman2/page6.html

Here's one of them...




[Edited on 12-23-2005 by David K]

San Borja Family

BAJACAT - 3-11-2006 at 12:51 PM

Has anybody have an idea of what to bring as a gift to this family, maybe the age of jose's kids. maybe teenagers at this time., any 411 in the matter is welcome.. thanks

San Borja

John M - 3-11-2006 at 05:58 PM

This is one of our favorite places to visit. The two photogrpahs I've posted are from a May 2002 trip. The first is one of the sons, playing cards with one of our guys. We left the playing cards and the kids were quite happy. By now the cards may be a tad worn??

We gave the older boy (20+?)a pocket-knife as his birthday was coming up soon as I recall, he was very appreciative.

The cemetary is quite historic (if it's the original - and we believe it is). Father Fermin Francisco De Lasuen, as the Franciscans were leaving Baja for Alta California, described the cemetary in a letter as "new and very spacious, enclosed with walls of adobe, with a door and a wooden cross above it, and in the center a cross of carved stone."

Second photograph

John M - 3-11-2006 at 06:05 PM

This is a photograph of the ruins of the adobe church and attending buildings, also taken in 2002.

As Fr. de Lasuen was departing he had to inventory everything. He described the adobe church [now in a somewhat protected state] as: "First, a new adobe church, and entire thirty-three varas [one vara is close to 33 inches] in length, eight in width, and five and a half in height. The walls are two varas wide, with five windows, their arched upper portions being of carved wood." Lasuen's description of additional buildings at the site continues for 5 additional paragraphs. You can see that the restoration has a long road ahead.

John M.







[Edited on 3-12-2006 by John M]

Neal Johns - 3-11-2006 at 11:15 PM

Jose and family have an English "menu" of services they can offer, and if you speak just a little Spanish, you can arrange just about any kind of a trip or destination you can think of. A few years ago we arranged for Jose and his oldest son to take us mulebacking over a branch of the El Camino Real to a waterhole named San Aguage, east of San Gregerio.
Highly recommended family.
Gifts: Think of the things your grandmother/grandfather used to have around the house. Sewing stuff, kitchen stuff, handtools, food, teenage kid stuff, flashlights with lots of batteries, ....

BAJACAT - 3-12-2006 at 08:56 AM

Thank you john, I will be there if everything goes well, on the 7 of april.I won't think I will need the menu since my firts language is spanish, but never the less thank you for the input.Now you give in me an idea of what to bring for Jose's family.. nice pics. and will try to make time to go the muletrip to the aguaje near san gregorio.. thanks again. John.

Neal Johns - 3-12-2006 at 11:18 AM

BAJACAT,
Make sure you hike up a canyon a few tenths of a mile to old Rancho San Gregorio if you have not seen it. A great site, old adobe, fruit trees, water (piped down to the bottom for use by cattle and the sometimes people at the "line shack" building at the bottom of the mountain.)

David K - 3-12-2006 at 11:57 AM

Photos of Neal's trip beyond San Borja along the eastern El Camino Real with Jose and the mules ar at http://vivabaja.com/neal




[Edited on 3-12-2006 by David K]

David K - 3-12-2006 at 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Neal Johns
BAJACAT,
Make sure you hike up a canyon a few tenths of a mile to old Rancho San Gregorio if you have not seen it. A great site, old adobe, fruit trees, water (piped down to the bottom for use by cattle and the sometimes people at the "line shack" building at the bottom of the mountain.)


Photos of Rancho San Gregorio are at: http://vivabaja.com/401/page5.html

Neal Johns showed us the way... a foot hike of 1/4 mile from the end of the road on the east branch of El Camino Real

Here's a photo from the 1950's of San Gregorio from the Lower California Guidebook (Howard Gulick)... The large square stones at the base date from the mission building era... This was likely a mission visita in the 1700's...




[Edited on 3-12-2006 by David K]

BAJACAT - 3-13-2006 at 10:36 PM

Thanks Neal I will try to see as much as I can so far is the mule trip to the aguaje,the hot springs (rather warm springs as everybody keeps saying.) and now the Rancho Gregorio trail that you mention hopefully I will make time to go see The Santa Ana visita. and Montevideo

Dk

BAJACAT - 3-13-2006 at 10:42 PM

How far is the lava tower from SBorja?

David K - 3-14-2006 at 12:13 AM

It is between San Borja and San Gregorio... closer to San Gregorio... I think about 7 miles from San Borja. There is a cross on top of the lava tower.

[Edited on 3-14-2006 by David K]

BajaCat - Santa Ana Visita?

John M - 3-14-2006 at 05:28 AM

First of all, how do you quys get those quotes from a previous post to appear in the neat little boxes?

BajaCat, you wrote:

Thanks Neal I will try to see as much as I can so far is the mule trip to the aguaje,the hot springs (rather warm springs as everybody keeps saying.) and now the Rancho Gregorio trail that you mention hopefully I will make time to go see The Santa Ana visita. and Montevideo.

My question, what do you know of the Santa Ana visita? I've begun to try to learn a bit about the San Borja area and have not seen reference to a visita in the San Borja region by that name.

Montevideo is worth seeing - a wonderful side trip. And you want a pretty drive - than do make the trip to San Gregorio, here is a shot of that road.

John M.

[Edited on 3-14-2006 by John M]

David K - 3-14-2006 at 08:44 AM

John, around each post on Nomad (top and bottom) are some 'buttons'... the first one is 'Quote', then 'Report', Profile, Find, U2U.

Click on 'Quote' instead of 'Post Reply' and you will be getting that feature!

Santa Ana

David K - 3-14-2006 at 08:51 AM

Photos and GPS in my site at: http://vivabaja.com/703/page4.html

Went there in July of '03 from San Borja... tough road, Baja pin stripes, not used anymore as all the ranches in there are abandoned (were). Came out a better road that swings back north to the Rosarito-San Borja road. I have more GPS data if you want it to find the roads in.

Chris M. ('bajataco' on Nomad) has a great photo of the big graves at the Santa Ana cemetery next to the rock one I photographed...
http://www.bajataco.com/Baja/Padres-at-Rest.html Here it is from bajataco's web site...




[Edited on 3-14-2006 by David K]

wilderone - 3-14-2006 at 10:23 AM

Ohhhhh - So that was San Gregorio!!!! And I had visions of rehabbing the place and planting tomatoes!! Ha!
But to answer an earlier question about gifts for the family, yes, the younger boys are now 12 and 17, and their sister had a baby who is now almost a year old - a girl. I think some baby toys or baby care items would be welcomed. Jose's wife does a lot of crocheting, so some crochet yarn (thread?) might be nice. Henry is sleeping under a open shelter which was probably built out of necessity after their newer members of the family moved in. He might need a sleeping bag. I bring pasta and cookies for the whole family - now 7 of them. If you ask them for guide services of some kind, just a big cash tip would be great too.

Santa Ana

John M - 3-14-2006 at 10:31 AM

Thanks David, I know the road - haven't been on it. Next trip perhaps. I wasn't aware of Santa Ana being classified as a visita. Neat cemetary photos. John M

BAJACAT - 3-14-2006 at 10:26 PM

bAJATACO's picture is the one that made me think about going to this place (padres at rest) even do is not for sure if real padres are buried there, could be anybody related to the church.
Thanks for the 411 on jose's family Wilderone :tumble::spingrin:

BAJACAT - 3-14-2006 at 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
It is between San Borja and San Gregorio... closer to San Gregorio... I think about 7 miles from San Borja. There is a cross on top of the lava tower.

[Edited on 3-14-2006 by David K]
So David K let me get this right. from SBorja 7 ml to the lava tower and from there how long is SG ranch, and one more think on the Montevideo rd how do I know when Im there (paintings) do I go by the mileage that you post it on your reports.

[Edited on 3-15-2006 by BAJACAT]

BAJACAT - 3-14-2006 at 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by John M
First of all, how do you quys get those quotes from a previous post to appear in the neat little boxes?

BajaCat, you wrote:

Thanks Neal I will try to see as much as I can so far is the mule trip to the aguaje,the hot springs (rather warm springs as everybody keeps saying.) and now the Rancho Gregorio trail that you mention hopefully I will make time to go see The Santa Ana visita. and Montevideo.

My question, what do you know of the Santa Ana visita? I've begun to try to learn a bit about the San Borja area and have not seen reference to a visita in the San Borja region by that name.

Montevideo is worth seeing - a wonderful side trip. And you want a pretty drive - than do make the trip to San Gregorio, here is a shot of that road.

John M.

[Edited on 3-14-2006 by John M]
John I do not know A whole lot, thats why I have included Sborja to my trip and like I told Dk Bajataco's picture of padres at rest made me want to visit Santa Ana too.. And also I want to update the pictures of SBorja I have'nt seen any recent ones...

David K - 3-14-2006 at 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by John M
Thanks David, I know the road - haven't been on it. Next trip perhaps. I wasn't aware of Santa Ana being classified as a visita. Neat cemetary photos. John M


John, see page 125 of the Lower Calif. Guidebook, just below the listing of San Ignacio (which reads in part: Cattle ranch with a small garden, one of the old visiting stations of San Borja mission.):

"Road left to Santa Ana (ranch, 5.6 mi.), another former visiting station of San Borja mission. Ruins of the chapel and irrigation ditch may still be seen. The road continues to San Gregorio, 19.3 mi. from junction."

Of interest, other visiting stations of San Borja are: San Miguel and San Regis to the south, Guadalupe to the north, and Los Angeles (on the bay to the northeast, 'L.A. Bay'). Calamajue was also a visiting station (that later became the first site for Santa Maria mission)... during wet years when the highly mineralized water was greatly diluted. In 1767, the water was not so diluted and crops would not grow, forcing a move to the final site of Santa Maria de los Angeles.