BajaNomad - Tough Truck Shoot-Out

Tough Truck Shoot-Out

TMW - 12-17-2005 at 10:35 AM

I copied this from AOL today. I wish they had included the other three trucks.

TW

Updated:2005-12-16 20:10:17
2005 Tough Truck Shoot-Out
By EDMUNDS.COM

The sign read, "You may find crickets and/or beetles in your room. Sorry, there's nothing we can do, the entire state is infested with them. Please, enjoy your stay."

Not the welcome mat we were expecting at the Motel 6 in Beatty, Nevada, but a fitting start to a weekend of roughing it.

We drove the 350 miles from Los Angeles to Beatty, a small town on the outskirts of Death Valley National Park, to test trucks, specifically the Nissan Frontier and the Toyota Tacoma. We've compared them before, but not like this.

This is a good old-fashioned grudge match. To the death. Winner takes all. Instead of calculating price points and comparing features lists, we wanted to see how these trucks tow up hills, run on the sand and race over washboard fire roads. You know, like you see in the commercials.

And they would have to do it all in the relentless triple-digit heat of California's Mojave Desert. These trucks claim to be tough. We were going to find out how tough.

Japanese Rule In our 2005 Midsize Truck Comparison Test, the Toyota Tacoma finished in 1st place with the Nissan Frontier just a few points behind. The other three trucks in the test were good but the Nissan and the Toyota were better, much better.

They also offer dedicated off-road packages for those who want that kind of hardware, or at least that look.

To judge the effectiveness of such packages, we brought along two versions of each truck ? one in full off-road trim and another dressed for the street. All four trucks were four-wheel-drive crew cabs with V6 engines and automatic transmissions. Prices ranged from $29,730 to $31,630.

On the Toyota side, the street model was our current long-term Tacoma, a long bed version with the TRD Sport package that swaps in retuned springs, Bilstein shocks and a set of Dunlop Grand Trek tires along with a few cosmetic upgrades. The TRD parts are designed to give the Tacoma improved on-road handling without reducing its ability off-road.

The other Toyota was a short bed with the TRD Off-Road package. It gets progressive rate springs along with Bilstein shocks, a thinner front sway bar, more aggressive BFGoodrich Rugged Trail tires, skid plates, and a locking rear differential.

Our long-term Frontier with the NISMO packages stood in for Nissan's off-road entry. Like the Tacoma, the NISMO Frontier gets Bilstein shocks, Rugged Trail tires, retuned springs, skid plates and a locking rear differential. It also adds electronic Hill Descent Control and Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC), Nissan's version of stability control.

Nissan doesn't have an equivalent to the TRD Sport package, so we used the closest thing possible, a Frontier LE equipped with 17-inch street tires.

A True Test To see what these trucks could do under load, we hooked up a 5,000-pound trailer and headed up a long, steep pass in Death Valley with the outside temperature hovering around 115 degrees. There was one passenger in each truck and we kept the air conditioning on at all times. We noted how fast the trucks climbed, how they sounded doing it and whether they heated up in the process.

Once that was over it was time for a little fun in the sand on some remote dunes outside Beatty. Other than airing down the tires and shifting into four-wheel drive, we made no special adjustments. Launching off the peaks was banned, but full throttle power slides were encouraged.

After the beach, we switched to some canyon running that involved tight switchbacks and wide-open washboard roads. None of it was technical enough to require low-range, but it was the most fun we had all weekend.

Tough Trucks, Tough Call After two days of testing, and several cans of Raid, one thing was clear: These trucks are built to take serious punishment. After all we put them through, they all drove the 350 miles home like it was just another road trip.

We also discovered little difference between the street-tuned trucks and the off-road versions. Other than a little extra traction from the all-terrain tires and less fade from the Bilstein shocks, the TRD Sport and Frontier LE conquered the same terrain as their off-road counterparts.

This made choosing a winner difficult, but the Nissans take the win. If we were buying a truck that would spend its entire life in the dirt, one of the Tacomas might get the nod, but before you play in the mud on the weekend, you have to get through the week first. While equally as tough and capable off-road as the Tacomas, the Nissan Frontiers are simply more refined and more comfortable. Bottom line, had we been forced to endure another few days in the desert we would have wanted to be driving one of the Nissan Frontiers.

Road Test: Comparison Test

2005 Tough Truck Shootout
2005 Nissan Frontier

By Edmunds.com Editors
Date posted: 11-08-2005

Halfway through the trip, we rolled the hellishly dirty NISMO Frontier into Beatty's only tire repair shop with a tree branch stuck in one of its sidewalls. The local seated behind what looked to be a desk made of tire scraps jumped up laughing.

"Looks like you've been having a little too much fun in that thing." A pretty astute assessment for a guy who looked like he had been having too much fun since the late '80s.

He was right; the NISMO Frontier was a ton of fun in the dirt. In fact, both Nissans were sturdy and easy to handle. They picked their way through the mountain trails just as easily as they ripped down the faster fire roads. They were never twitchy or skittish, making them perfect for running hard.

They didn't exactly attack the sand dunes, but they didn't embarrass themselves either. When it was time to do some towing, the NISMO never flinched and stayed cool. And on the way back to civilization, both Frontiers provided comfortable cabins and a smooth, quiet ride which earned them the win.

Power Where It Counts
Previous Frontiers had big V6s, but they never had big power. The new 4.0-liter V6 in the '05 Frontier finally delivers. Rated to produce 265 horsepower at 6,500 rpm and 284 pound-feet of torque at 4,000 rpm, it beats the Tacoma on paper by 20 hp and a couple of pound-feet of torque.

We say on paper because in reality the Frontier accelerates slower than the Toyota. We tested the trucks before we headed to the desert and the Frontier needed 8.3 seconds to get from zero to 60 in LE trim and 8.4 seconds for the NISMO version. Both Tacomas did it in 8.1 seconds.

With the 5,000-pound trailer hooked up, the Sport Tacoma ran from zero to 60 mph in 17.6 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 21.1 seconds. It sounds unimpressive, but both times are two-tenths of a second better than the NISMO Frontier could manage.

There's a simple explanation for the Nissan's slower times: the Frontier is fat. Both versions weigh 400 pounds more than the Tacomas. The extra pounds cost the Nissans at the track, but didn't make much of a difference when we were pulling the same 5,000-pound trailer up Townes Pass in Death Valley.

It's nearly 20 miles from the sea level start to the 5,000-foot peak, and the NISMO Frontier didn't have trouble with any part of it. It maxed out at roughly the same speed as the Tacoma Sport on the long straights and kicked down quickly when it needed a little extra juice. It wasn't as noisy as the Tacoma at full throttle either and the noise it did make wasn't raspy like the Toyotas. As we neared the summit the Frontiers' temperature gauge had barely budged.

On the way down the hill the Frontiers' brakes felt about the same as the Tacomas'. Drive like an idiot with your foot on the pedal the whole time and both trucks heat up and go soft. Use the brake pedal correctly and there's more than enough stopping power to handle a 5,000-pound trailer.

Bad for Baywatch
The Nissan's heftiness didn't hamper its towing ability, but it did drag it down a bit in the dunes.

Driving in sand is pretty straightforward. You go easy out of the gate and then keep your foot down to maintain momentum. The Nissans required a bit more finesse than the Toyotas to get them going, even with their tires aired down to give them a bigger footprint.

Once it got up to speed, the V6's fat power band made it easy to keep either Frontier moving. Their transmission was quicker to shift than the Tacomas', responding with a surge of power that kept the Nissans going when they would have otherwise bogged down.

The dunes were one area where the street tires on the Frontier LE were a problem. Their smooth highway tread didn't paddle much sand, often leaving it stranded before it even got started.

Back Where It Belonged
When it came time to slow it down a little and tackle some narrow, winding trails, the Frontiers were back on their game. Their suspensions isolated bumps better than the Tacomas and a slower steering ratio gave them a less jumpy feel as we banged through the rocks.

The Frontier's seating position is better, too. There's less dashboard to contend with, and you can see better over what is there.

Ground clearance for both the street and off-road versions of the Frontier is a healthy 10.1 inches, half an inch more than the Tacoma. The street tires on the LE that were so worthless in the sand didn't slow that Frontier through the rocks. If you plan on tackling nothing more than low-speed trails, the NISMO package isn't necessary.

High-Speed Stability
It was out on the fast sections where the Frontiers were the most fun. When you're going hard, the extra weight of the Nissans keeps them stable and less bouncy over washboard. They rarely bottomed out and were easier to throw into big, tail-out slides around turns.

The NISMO Frontier was soft enough to stay comfortable without feeling completely numb. The retuned springs and shocks maintain good control over bigger ruts and bumps while the big BFG tires isolated the smaller stuff. The Frontier LE withstood the same punishment, it just didn't feel as comfortable or controllable along the way.

Slower steering than the Tacomas made the Nissans feel lazy at first, but after a few hours of hard running we eventually liked them better. They require fewer small adjustments so you're not constantly sawing back and forth to keep the truck headed in the right direction.

Another surprise was the Frontier's VDC system. Stability control is usually the first thing we shut off when we're trying to have some fun. In the Frontiers, we ended up leaving it on most of the time. It doesn't constantly cut in like some systems, so you can keep a good speed even when you're slaloming through the brush. Pitch it just a little too far, however, and the brakes cut in just enough to save it without shutting you down completely.

The Ride Home
It was on the five-hour drive home to L.A. that the Nissans made up a few minds. Unlike the Tacoma that never lets you forget you're driving a pickup, the Frontier is as comfortable as your average SUV on the highway.

It's quieter inside than the Tacoma, has more comfortable seats and better-placed cupholders. The optional Rockford Fosgate stereo thumps a little louder than the Tacoma's top-of-the-line JBL system and its steering wheel stereo controls are easier to use. "I could go cross-country in this thing easy," said one editor about the Frontier.

Conclusion
After spending four straight days in these trucks, that little extra level of comfort on the ride home goes a long way. Had the Nissans lagged behind the Toyotas throughout the trip it wouldn't have been enough to make a difference, but they were right there with the Tacomas the entire time.

Driving these trucks to their limits proved that they're as tough as they come. It also proved that you can have a tough truck that doesn't always feel that way. That wasn't what we were looking for, but that was what we found in the Nissan Frontier.

Road Test: Comparison Test

2005 Tough Truck Shootout
2005 Toyota Tacoma

By Edmunds.com Editors
Date posted: 11-08-2005

Toyota knows who buys the Tacoma. They're mostly young and mostly male, and taking good care of their truck means leaving it dirty so it looks cool.

We kept that in mind as we pounded our pair of Tacomas through the desert. We barreled through mud holes, whipped donuts in the sand and otherwise drove them as if they didn't need to last any longer than the weekend.

When both trucks survived without so much as a new rattle we weren't surprised. The Tacoma feels like a traditional pickup truck ? stiff and bouncy on the street, indestructible in the dirt and always a little rough around the edges.

For some buyers, that's what makes the Tacoma great. For us, it was the reason the Tacoma finished second to the Frontier. Having a truck that feels like a truck is fine ? getting one that's every bit as capable without the rough edges is even better.

Awkward Behind the Wheel
The Tacoma's most noticeable problem is the seating position. You sit high on a flat seat with the steering wheel practically in your lap. You can make adjustments all you want but it never feels natural.

With less front hip-, leg- and shoulder room, the Tacoma is also more cramped inside than the Frontier. There's more rear-seat room in the Frontier, too, but when you fold the Toyota's rear seats you do get a nice flat-load floor.

There were few complaints during our five-hour drive to the desert. All the controls are well placed, there's plenty of storage and the wind noise isn't bad on the highway. And the TRD Sport does live up to its promise with slightly better road manners and less tire noise than the Tacoma with the TRD Off-Road package.

What Trailer?
By the time we hit Death Valley for the towing test, neither the Frontier nor the Tacoma had a clear advantage. And after a few runs up the pass, our opinions didn't change much.

Like the NISMO Frontier, the Tacoma Sport charged up the hill without breaking a sweat. It ran about the same speed in the straights and never stopped accelerating as long as we kept its pedal down. The temperature gauge barely moved.

The Tacoma has the same drivetrain setup as the Frontier, a 4.0-liter V6 hooked to a five-speed automatic transmission. The 2005 specs were 245 horsepower and 283 pound-feet of torque, but a new ratings system for 2006 knocks the same engine down to 236 hp and 266 lb-ft of torque.

Doesn't matter. The Tacoma is faster than the Frontier no matter what the spec sheet says. Its 400-pound weight advantage makes all the difference. It feels quicker off the line and our track testing proved it. Both Tacomas ran from zero to 60 mph in 8.1 seconds, two-tenths of a second quicker than the Frontier LT and three-tenths quicker than the NISMO.

We only tested the Sport Tacoma against the NISMO Frontier with the 5,000-pound trailer in tow, but the results were similar as the Tacoma still beat the Frontier by two-tenths with a 0-to-60 time of 17.6 seconds.

Less weight helps the Tacoma stop shorter, too. The Sport version took 123 feet to stop from 60 mph while the Off-Road version did it in 120 feet. The Nissans' took 131 and 128 feet, respectively. Despite that performance advantage, the Tacomas' brakes didn't feel any better than the Nissans' heading down the pass with the trailer hooked up. Go easy and the Tacomas' pedals felt fine. Ride the brakes and they'll cook in a matter of minutes.

Another Day at the Beach
Out on the sand, the Tacomas' lighter weight delivered mixed results. They had less trouble getting started from a stop and kept their momentum better than the Frontiers. Their transmission didn't shift as quickly as the Nissans', but there was usually enough power to keep them going.

Contrary to what you might think, running in the dunes can be rough if you're on anything but untracked patches of sand. With their stiffer suspension and lighter chassis, the Tacomas didn't track as well as the Frontiers over the rough spots. The Nissans were a snap to place and even slide, while the Tacomas could get off track if you hit a few ripples.

With its bigger tires, shorter wheelbase and softer setup, the TRD Off-Road Tacoma had a slight advantage over the Sport version. It got up to speed easier and changed directions quicker. Unlike the Frontier LE, the Sport Tacoma did fine in the sand thanks to its all-terrain tires.

Trail Running
The Tacoma has always been an excellent trail machine and not much has changed. Its quick throttle response makes it easy to pop over obstacles and although it has less clearance than the Frontier we never had a problem getting over rocks.

Drive them back-to-back with the Nissans, however, and the Tacomas feel jumpy. Their quicker steering and stiffer suspension transmit more jolts and noise through the cabin. Over slow sections it's an advantage as you get a better feel for the trail, but at anything more than walking speed it means constant steering corrections.

Both Tacomas turned in similar speeds during slalom testing with less than a 1-mile-per-hour difference between the Sport (58.8) and the Off-Road (59.2). We expected the Sport to run faster but its extra length made it harder to snake through the cones. Neither Tacoma could keep up with the Frontier LE as it posted the fastest slalom run of all the trucks at 59.9 mph.

Road Running
At higher speeds, the Tacoma's twitchiness is less pronounced. Go fast enough and both versions floated over the small stuff just like the Frontiers. The Tacomas react quicker to steering inputs than the Nissans, however, so they require a steadier hand to keep them headed in the right direction.

With Bilstein shocks and identical tires it wasn't a surprise that the TRD Off-Road truck drove similar to the NISMO Frontier over washboard ruts. There was very little fade from the Bilsteins and plenty of traction. The Tacoma's lighter weight was obvious as the Off-Road Tacoma bounced off bumps that the NISMO Nissan just rolled over. Again, it's a matter of feel and after a couple days of nonstop off-roading more often than not we preferred driving one of the Nissans.

The Verdict
The Tacoma does everything you would expect regardless of trim. It has power to spare, can take anything you can dish out and will probably last longer than you want to drive it. It's a serious truck and it drives like one.

Up until now that's what we expected, but the Nissan Frontier proves you can have a tough truck without the tough ride.

2005 Tough Truck Shootout
Specifications and Performance

By Edmunds.com Editors
Date posted: 11-08-2005

Specifications and Performance
2005 Nissan Frontier Street

Vehicle Type:
Model Year: 2005
Make: Nissan
Model: Frontier
Style: Crew Cab LE
Base Price: $26,550
Price as Tested: $31,630
Drive Type: Part-time four-wheel drive
Transmission Type: Five-speed automatic

Displacement (liters): 4.0

Engine Type: V6
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 265 @ 5,600
Torque (ft-lb @ rpm): 284 @ 4,000
Braking System: Four wheel discs
Steering System: Rack and pinion
Suspension Type (front): Independent
Suspension Type (rear): Solid axle
Tire Size (front): 265/65/R17
Tire Size (rear): 265/65/R17
Tire Brand: N/A
Tire Model: N/A
Curb Weight (lbs.): 4,451
Recommended Fuel: Regular Unleaded
Fuel Tank Capacity (gal): 21.1
EPA Fuel Economy (mpg): 15 City 20 Highway
Edmunds Observed (mpg): 16.3

Conditions for Testing:
Temperature (Fahrenheit): Not Tested
Humidity: Not Tested
Elevation (ft): Not Tested
Wind: Not Tested

Performance:
0 - 30 (sec): 3.4
0 - 45 (sec): N/A
0 - 60 (sec): 8.3
0 - 75 (sec): N/A
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.22@85.85
30 - 0 (ft): 32.53
60 - 0 (ft): 131.42
Braking Rating: (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor) Good
Slalom (mph): 59.9
Turning Circle (ft), curb-to-curb: 43.3
Handling Rating: (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor) Good
Db @ Idle: 42
Db @ Full Throttle: 71
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 67

Acceleration Comments:
Tons of low-end torque and quick throttle response. Very strong, positive upshifts. Power really comes on after 4,000 rpm. Shifts come at 6,000 rpm, redline is 6,250.

Braking Comments:
Solid pedal feel that's very progressive throughout. Minimal ABS vibration, but noticeable noise. Slight rear wheel lockup its only issue.

Handling Comments:
Steering is a little slower than the Tacoma but it's still easy to place through the cones. A slightly lower stance and 17-inch street made a noticable difference as the LE turned in the quickest time of all four trucks.

Specifications:
Length: 205.5
Width: 72.8
Height: 70.1
Wheelbase: 125.9
Legroom (front): 42.4
Legroom (rear): 33.6
Headroom (front): 40
Headroom (rear): 38.7
Maximum Seating Capacity: 5
Cargo Volume: 27.1
Maximum Cargo Volume (rear seats down): N/A

Warranty Information:
Bumper-to-Bumper: 3 yr./36,000
Power Train: 5 yr./60,000
Corrosion: 5 yr./Unlimited
Roadside Assistance: 3 yr./36,000
Scheduled Maintenance: None

Safety Information:
Front Airbags: Standard
Side Airbags: Optional
Head Airbags: Optional
Antilock Brakes: Standard
Electronic Brake Enhancements: Not Available
Traction Control: Optional
Stability Control: Optional
Rollover Protection: Not Available
Emergency Assistance System: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Driver: Good
NHTSA Crash Test Passenger: Good
NHTSA Crash Test Side Front: Excellent
NHTSA Crash Test Side Rear: Excellent
NHTSA Rollover: Not Tested
IIHS Offset: Not Tested

Specifications and Performance
2005 Nissan Frontier Offroad

Vehicle Type:
Model Year: 2005
Make: Nissan
Model: Frontier
Style: Crew Cab NISMO
Base Price: $26,750
Price as Tested: $30,130
Drive Type: Part-time four-wheel drive
Transmission Type: Five-speed automatic

Displacement (liters): 4.0

Engine Type: V6
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 265 @ 5,600
Torque (ft-lb @ rpm): 284 @ 4,000
Braking System: Four wheel discs
Steering System: Rack and pinion
Suspension Type (front): Independent
Suspension Type (rear): Solid axle
Tire Size (front): 265/75/R16
Tire Size (rear): 265/75/R16
Tire Brand: BFGoodrich
Tire Model: Rugged Trail T/A
Curb Weight (lbs.): 4,502
Recommended Fuel: Regular Unleaded
Fuel Tank Capacity (gal): 21.1
EPA Fuel Economy (mpg): 15 City 20 Highway
Edmunds Observed (mpg): 16.2

Conditions for Testing:
Temperature (Fahrenheit): Not Tested
Humidity: Not Tested
Elevation (ft): Not Tested
Wind: Not Tested

Performance:
0 - 30 (sec): 3.5
0 - 45 (sec): Not Tested
0 - 60 (sec): 8.4
0 - 75 (sec): Not Tested
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.30@85.0
30 - 0 (ft): 31.72
60 - 0 (ft): 128.38
Braking Rating: (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor) Good
Slalom (mph): 57.1
Turning Circle (ft), curb-to-curb: 43.3
Handling Rating: (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor) Average
Db @ Idle: 42
Db @ Full Throttle: 71
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 68

Acceleration Comments:
Tons of low-end torque and quick throttle response. Very strong, positive upshifts. Power really comes on after 4,000 rpm. Shifts come at 6,000 rpm, redline is 6,250.

Braking Comments:
Solid pedal feel that's very progressive throughout. Minimal ABS vibration, but noticeable noise. Less rear wheel lockup than LE Frontier, but more front-end dive.

Handling Comments:
Steering is a little slower than the Tacoma but it's still easy to place through the cones. Tall off-road tires are its biggest drawback as they lose grip easily when pushed hard in the corners.

Specifications:
Length: 205.5
Width: 72.8
Height: 70.1
Wheelbase: 125.9
Legroom (front): 42.4
Legroom (rear): 33.6
Headroom (front): 40
Headroom (rear): 38.7
Maximum Seating Capacity: 5
Cargo Volume: 27.1
Maximum Cargo Volume (rear seats down): N/A

Warranty Information:
Bumper-to-Bumper: 3 yr./36,000
Power Train: 5 yr./60,000
Corrosion: 5 yr./Unlimited
Roadside Assistance: 3 yr./36,000
Scheduled Maintenance: None

Safety Information:
Front Airbags: Standard
Side Airbags: Optional
Head Airbags: Optional
Antilock Brakes: Standard
Electronic Brake Enhancements: Not Available
Traction Control: Optional
Stability Control: Optional
Rollover Protection: Not Available
Emergency Assistance System: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Driver: Good
NHTSA Crash Test Passenger: Good
NHTSA Crash Test Side Front: Excellent
NHTSA Crash Test Side Rear: Excellent
NHTSA Rollover: Not Tested
IIHS Offset: Not Tested

Specifications and Performance
2005 Toyota Tacoma Street

Vehicle Type:
Model Year: 2005
Make: Toyota
Model: Tacoma
Style: Crew Cab long bed TRD Sport
Base Price: $25,250
Price as Tested: $29,730
Drive Type: Part-time four-wheel drive
Transmission Type: Five-speed ECT-i automatic

Displacement (liters): 4.0

Engine Type: V6
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 245 @ 5,200
Torque (ft-lb @ rpm): 282 @ 3,800
Braking System: Front wheel disc/rear wheel drum
Steering System: Rack and pinion
Suspension Type (front): Coil over shock double A-arm independent
Suspension Type (rear): Solid axle
Tire Size (front): 245/75/R16
Tire Size (rear): 245/75/R16
Tire Brand: Dunlop
Tire Model: AT20 Grand Trek
Curb Weight (lbs.): 4,100
Recommended Fuel: Regular Unleaded
Fuel Tank Capacity (gal): 21
EPA Fuel Economy (mpg): 17 City 21 Highway
Edmunds Observed (mpg): 16.4

Conditions for Testing:
Temperature (Fahrenheit): Not Tested
Humidity: Not Tested
Elevation (ft): Not Tested
Wind: Not Tested

Performance:
0 - 30 (sec): 3.0
0 - 45 (sec): Not Tested
0 - 60 (sec): 8.1
0 - 75 (sec): Not Tested
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.10@85.3
30 - 0 (ft): 29.2
60 - 0 (ft): 123.35
Braking Rating: (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor) Excellent
Slalom (mph): 58.8
Turning Circle (ft), curb-to-curb: 44
Handling Rating: (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor) Good
Db @ Idle: 42
Db @ Full Throttle: 74
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 70

Acceleration Comments:
Very strong off the line with a broad, flat power band. Firm shifts but not as quick as Frontier. Gets a little loud at high rpm. Shifts at 5,300, redline at 5,500.

Braking Comments:
Noticeable ABS noise and vibration. Extremely confident overall with excellent stopping power. Very little dive or movement.

Handling Comments:
Good weighting to the steering. This truck feels solid but the extra length made it hard to transition through the cones. Tires were slightly better than off-road trucks but not enough to compensate for the extra size.

Specifications:
Length: 221.3
Width: 74.6
Height: 70.1
Wheelbase: 140.9
Legroom (front): 41.7
Legroom (rear): 32.6
Headroom (front): 40.1
Headroom (rear): 38.5
Maximum Seating Capacity: 5
Cargo Volume: N/A
Maximum Cargo Volume (rear seats down): N/A

Warranty Information:
Bumper-to-Bumper: 3 yr./36,000
Power Train: 5 yr./60,000
Corrosion: 5 yr./60,000
Roadside Assistance: None
Scheduled Maintenance: None

Safety Information:
Front Airbags: Standard
Side Airbags: Optional
Head Airbags: Optional
Antilock Brakes: Standard
Electronic Brake Enhancements: Not Available
Traction Control: Optional
Stability Control: Optional
Rollover Protection: Not Available
Emergency Assistance System: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Driver: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Passenger: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Side Front: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Side Rear: Not Available
NHTSA Rollover: Not Available
IIHS Offset: Good

Specifications and Performance
2005 Toyota Tacoma Off Road

Vehicle Type:
Model Year: 2005
Make: Toyota
Model: Tacoma
Style: Crew Cab TRD Off Road
Base Price: $24,750
Price as Tested: $30,265
Drive Type: Part-time four-wheel drive
Transmission Type: Five-speed ECT-i automatic

Displacement (liters): 4.0

Engine Type: V6
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 245 @ 5,200
Torque (ft-lb @ rpm): 282 @ 3,800
Braking System: Front wheel disc/rear wheel drum
Steering System: Rack and pinion
Suspension Type (front): Coil over shock double A-arm independent
Suspension Type (rear): Solid axle
Tire Size (front): 265/70/R16
Tire Size (rear): 265/70/R16
Tire Brand: BFGoodrich
Tire Model: Rugged Trail T/A
Curb Weight (lbs.): 4,045
Recommended Fuel: Regular Unleaded
Fuel Tank Capacity (gal): 21
EPA Fuel Economy (mpg): 17 City 21 Highway
Edmunds Observed (mpg): 16.8

Conditions for Testing:
Temperature (Fahrenheit): Not Tested
Humidity: Not Tested
Elevation (ft): Not Tested
Wind: Not Tested

Performance:
0 - 30 (sec): 3.0
0 - 45 (sec): Not Tested
0 - 60 (sec): 8.1
0 - 75 (sec): Not Tested
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.20@85.0
30 - 0 (ft): 29.1
60 - 0 (ft): 120.1
Braking Rating: (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor) Excellent
Slalom (mph): 59.2
Turning Circle (ft), curb-to-curb: 44
Handling Rating: (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor) Good
Db @ Idle: 42
Db @ Full Throttle: 71
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 70

Acceleration Comments:
Very strong off the line with a broad, flat power band. Firm shifts but not as quick as Frontier. Gets a little loud at high rpm. Shifts at 5,300, redline at 5,500.

Braking Comments:
Noticeable ABS noise and vibration. Extremely confident overall with excellent stopping power. Very little dive or movement.

Handling Comments:
Good weighting to the steering. This truck feels surprisingly nimble compared to the Sport model that's designed for the street. Most of it is due to its shorter length as it was easier to throw through the cones. Tires kept it from keeping up with the Frontier LE.

Specifications:
Length: 208.1
Width: 74.6
Height: 70.1
Wheelbase: 127.8
Legroom (front): 41.7
Legroom (rear): 32.6
Headroom (front): 40.1
Headroom (rear): 38.5
Maximum Seating Capacity: 5
Cargo Volume: N/A
Maximum Cargo Volume (rear seats down): N/A

Warranty Information:
Bumper-to-Bumper: 3 yr./36,000
Power Train: 5 yr./60,000
Corrosion: 5 yr./60,000
Roadside Assistance: None
Scheduled Maintenance: None

Safety Information:
Front Airbags: Standard
Side Airbags: Optional
Head Airbags: Optionals
Antilock Brakes: Standard
Electronic Brake Enhancements: Not Available
Traction Control: Optional
Stability Control: Optional
Rollover Protection: Not Available
Emergency Assistance System: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Driver: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Passenger: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Side Front: Not Available
NHTSA Crash Test Side Rear: Not Available
NHTSA Rollover: Not Available
IIHS Offset: Good

David K - 12-17-2005 at 11:38 AM

"Japanese Rule In our 2005 Midsize Truck Comparison Test, the Toyota Tacoma finished in 1st place with the Nissan Frontier just a few points behind. The other three trucks in the test were good but the Nissan and the Toyota were better, much better."

Oh, what a feeling!!!

Thank you Neal Johns and other Toyota Baja Nomads for your recommendations... On my second Tacoma now, and couldn't be happier!

My gas milage last week on my 4 month old Tacoma ranged from just over 16 in town driving to just over 19 MPG for highway driving. I once recorded over 20 on the highway.

The only 'warantee' problem I am having checked is a light whistle sound that seems to be coming from the front right brake, at highway speed.

TMW - 12-17-2005 at 12:13 PM

David, I recall the new Tacoma has a series of loover cuts on the front of the wheel well to let air pass thru. Maybe there is a restriction in there.

David K - 12-17-2005 at 06:07 PM

Hmmmm... interesting, however if I depress the brake pedal the sound goes away for a couple seconds, so I am thinking that is where to look. But, I will check those slats!

Ken Cooke - 12-19-2005 at 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Oh, what a feeling!!!

David - you took the words right out of my mouth!

[Edited on 12-20-2005 by Ken Cooke]

David K - 12-19-2005 at 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Oh, what a feeling!!!

David - you took the words right out of my mouth!

[img]http://www.thedesertoutlaw.20megsfree.com/images/oh,_what_a_feeling.jpg[/img]

[Edited on 12-19-2005 by Ken Cooke]

Yah Ken... when I owned a new Jeep and it was constantly in the shop, I would say "Oh, what a pain!" :lol:

(the same was true of the only other American car I owned, a Plymouth Grand Voyager...

[Edited on 12-19-2005 by David K]

Ken Cooke - 12-19-2005 at 10:08 AM

David,

If the Tacoma is so trouble-free, why did you get rid of yours???

David K - 12-19-2005 at 05:54 PM

Ken... I didn't get rid of it... it is in my garage???

Not being a rich man, I must LEASE the truck (lowers the monthly payments) for 5 years... My '01 Tacoma was just a couple months from the end of the lease, so I had to change it or exchange it, rather.

The important thing here is that after 5 years of 'punishment' my Tacoma passed all expectations with flying colors... I mean no mechanical breakdowns, no noises or rattles, no drop in gas milage (always between 16-21 MPG), the only non- normal wear items I had to pay for to replace was a water pump at 90,000 miles (was leaking slightly, didn't cause a breakdown) when I had the timing belt replaced at the recommended interval, and an oxygen sensor (a light came on, but again my truck never stopped running).

That is why I kept in Toyota for another 5 years... and the Tacoma grew for me as the '05 is a larger body and deeper truck bed... I upgraded to a four door but a foot shorter bed to keep the wheelbase 'short' for trail running... I can fit the same amount of stuff in this shorter bed as my previous bed because it is deeper and wider.

I will be happy to provide honest reports on my new Tacoma as time goes along... as I said earlier, I have a periodic whistle sound at highway speed that seems to come from the front right brake. The service dept. checked it once and said it was all looking normal with plenty of pad remaining... However, as the sound still is there, they will have it the next rainy day I can't work to totally go over it... Great service at Toyota of Carlsbad!

Ken Cooke - 12-19-2005 at 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Ken... I didn't get rid of it... it is in my garage???

Not being a rich man, I must LEASE the truck (lowers the monthly payments) for 5 years... My '01 Tacoma was just a couple months from the end of the lease, so I had to change it or exchange it, rather.

I hear you on the lower payments. I looked at what they were asking for Toyotas - both new and used, and I almost gagged. Nice pickups though...

David K - 12-20-2005 at 08:28 AM

Yup, the '05 4 door, TRD package (locking diff., Bilstein shocks, BFG tires), 4WD was just over $29,000.

With just $1,000 downpayment and my '01 trade in, my lease is about $560/ mo. This is only $100 more than my '01 Tacoma lease payment.

Here it is LESS than 24 hours in my possesion already in 4WD, on a beach in Baja!

Ken Cooke - 12-20-2005 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Yup, the '05 4 door, TRD package (locking diff., Bilstein shocks, BFG tires), 4WD was just over $29,000.

With just $1,000 downpayment and my '01 trade in, my lease is about $560/ mo. This is only $100 more than my '01 Tacoma lease payment.

Here it is LESS than 24 hours in my possesion already in 4WD, on a beach in Baja!

My '03 2 door, Rubicon package (locking diffs, 4:1 Roc-Trac Transfer case, Alcoa Forged Alloys, 136 amp alternator, overhead lights, and Bushwacker extra-wide rivited fender flares) set me back just over $30,000.00

With $1,000 downpayment my lease is $445.00/mo. I got plenty for my $$ and now I can 'wheel with the best of them. I've had some problems associated with axle studs on the rear axle and my O2 Sensor, but that is because of modifications I did to the Jeep. Next time, I'll get a professional instead of do the work myself. All in all, a great vehicle which takes me to work M-F and to Baja every couple of months! :bounce:

Additional modifications

John M - 12-20-2005 at 12:37 PM

Ken, when I was at Tri-County Gear in Pomona recently the fellows there suggested that a lot of Rubicon owners have spent considerable dollars to "improve" their new Rubicons.

He said that $5,000 to $8,000 was not unusual - lift, tires/wheels and a few other goodies.

So I figured the new cost with these mods was nearer to the $38,000 mark.

Have you found this to be so with yourself or with other Rubicon owners?

John m

Ken Cooke - 12-20-2005 at 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John M
Ken, when I was at Tri-County Gear in Pomona recently the fellows there suggested that a lot of Rubicon owners have spent considerable dollars to "improve" their new Rubicons.

He said that $5,000 to $8,000 was not unusual - lift, tires/wheels and a few other goodies. Have you found this to be so with yourself or with other Rubicon owners?

John m

The amount of money you must spend to be considered a "serious" Rubicon Owner is staggering. Enough $$ to make you nauseated. I have an additional $4K in my Rubicon, and my Rubicon can be considered a "mild" buildup.

Crazy Suzy has right around $16K in her Rubicon, making hers a "built" Rubicon.

Crazy Suzy Rubicon

"This is our family's 2004 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. In addition to its standard features that include lockers front and rear, a 4:1 transfer case and Dana 44's, this one has a few upgrades. Check it out:"

35" Goodyear Wrangler MT/R's
4.5" Rubicon Express long arm lift
1" body lift from MORE
Kilby gas tank and steering box skids
Nth Degree Mobility oil pan skid
ORO Sway bar disconnect
ORO steering
Kilby onboard air
Wilderness swing-away rack system
Wilderness front bumper
Warn XD9000i winch
Rock Hard roll cage
High Angle rear driveline
4.88 gears
Poison Spyder Rocker Knockers

Taking you into the more "elevated" realms of Rubicon buildups, XtremeUnlimited tackles the buildups of the $50K+ crowd. Note the airbag suspension by OffRoadOnly, the big Goodyear (40") rubber, etc. This is big money Rubicon to the tune of ~$55,000.00

The same can be said about this Rubicon shown tackling a crevace out in Anza Borrego - also built by XtremeUnlimited...

[Edited on 12-20-2005 by Ken Cooke]

David K - 12-20-2005 at 04:20 PM

Why in the world would you Jeepers want to do that??? (Struggle up that ravine)

It is even worse than watching you guys each drive one tire up a bouder in El Mano!!! If you are in Anza Borrego then I think you clearly are not on an established road!! I presume you are outside the state park and destroying an 'unprotected' mud hill?? Too funny... 'Tread Lightly', HA!!

So your Jeep costs more than my 5 passenger truck? Gee... and you were crying over the high cost of Toyotas! My monthly payment is higher because my trade in was negative with the over 136,000 trouble free miles on it, I presume...

Have fun in Baja, and treat her better than Anza Borrego... please!

Ken Cooke - 12-20-2005 at 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Why in the world would you Jeepers want to do that??? (Struggle up that ravine)

It is even worse than watching you guys each drive one tire up a bouder in El Mano!!! If you are in Anza Borrego then I think you clearly are not on an established road!! I presume you are outside the state park and destroying an 'unprotected' mud hill?? Too funny... 'Tread Lightly', HA!!

So your Jeep costs more than my 5 passenger truck? Gee... and you were crying over the high cost of Toyotas! My monthly payment is higher because my trade in was negative with the over 136,000 trouble free miles on it, I presume...

Have fun in Baja, and treat her better than Anza Borrego... please!

I wasn't on this particular run, so I do not know exactly where this crevace was located. Our club painstakingly adheres to all Tread Lightly rules, and this might have been in the mud hills east of Ocotillo Wells S.V.R.A.

Sure, a Toyota costs about the same as a Rubicon-equipped Wrangler. When the time comes for a nice pickup truck, either I'll pop for that Tacoma or a nice Hemi-equipped Wrangler! :?:

Remember David, its a JEEP thing!

David K - 12-20-2005 at 08:11 PM

Any good pics of the new Jeep Gladiator? I would buy it if the quality is ever improved by U.S. mfgs.!!

Is the Brute a prototype or a project rig? Reminds me of the CJ-8 Scrambler!

bajalou - 12-20-2005 at 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Any good pics of the new Jeep Gladiator? I would buy it if the quality is ever improved by U.S. mfgs.!!
!

US mfgs???? Jeep is a German company - has been for several years.

:wow:

David K - 12-20-2005 at 09:39 PM

That's too funny Lou! Daimler Chrysler ... right?

Gee, when Jeep was part of American Motors that became HALF FRENCH when Renault bought much of AMC!

I liked Jeep when it was KAISER owned WILLYS MOTORS then KAISER-JEEP (1953-1969) or even WILLYS-OVERLAND before!

[Edited on 12-21-2005 by David K]

4baja - 12-21-2005 at 07:19 AM

i have 115000 miles on my tacoma and the only thing that went bad was the cd player. too many washboard roads and dust killed it. other then normal oil and filter changes it has performed flawless. will buy again :bounce:

TMW - 12-21-2005 at 08:15 AM

A few years ago, after owning a couple of Honda Civic's a friend purchased a Dodge Caravan. At our next xmas party he starts giving me a hard time because I had purchased a new Camry for the wife. His point was I should buy U.S. made vehicles. I told him I did. I have a chevy 4x4 PU foreign made in Canada and the Camry made in Kentucky, USA.

bajalou - 12-21-2005 at 08:36 AM

As TW points out - it's tough to figure out vehicles "Made in the USA"

Some are manufactured in the USA for Japanese or German compaines, some are manufactured outside USA for American companies. And the distinction continue to blur.

:?:

David K - 12-21-2005 at 09:07 AM

I believe half of the Tacoma is made in Calif., and I know my salesman, mechanics, and the dealership are all American...

Ken Cooke - 12-21-2005 at 12:06 PM

When I bought the Jeep, I was thinking about our country's Gross Natl. Product and contributing to the trade imbalance. My wife, Suzanne bought an '05 Honda CR-V and she is originally from Flint, MI! Formerly G.M. Country!

PJC - 12-21-2005 at 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cooke

Very cool! Will these be production vehicles?

[Edited on 12-21-2005 by Baja Blackie]

Neal Johns - 12-21-2005 at 07:30 PM

Blackie, all it takes is money! :lol:

They have been around for a year or so. Great looking machine with a six foot bed and Hemi option!
See:
http://www.aev-conversions.com/Vehicle_Brute.html

Ken Cooke - 12-21-2005 at 07:45 PM

http://www.summitsut.com/splash_jeep2.jpg

Neal Johns - 12-21-2005 at 08:05 PM

The Summit SUT is a cheap knockoff of the AEV Brute in my opinion.

Ken Cooke - 12-21-2005 at 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neal Johns
The Summit SUT is a cheap knockoff of the AEV Brute in my opinion.

For a Toyota guy, Neal - you sure know plenty about Jeeps. Hmmm, must be getting ready to jump ship for a Baja crawler...

David K - 12-21-2005 at 08:23 PM

Nice Dakar photo... What about my Gladiator question above?

Ken Cooke - 12-21-2005 at 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Any good pics of the new Jeep Gladiator? I would buy it if the quality is ever improved by U.S. mfgs.!!

Is the Brute a prototype or a project rig? Reminds me of the CJ-8 Scrambler!

Google "Jeep + Gladiator" and hit 'images'. :bounce:

David K - 12-22-2005 at 12:38 AM

Went to Jeep.com and found it...

TMW - 12-22-2005 at 08:12 AM

Interesting article in the paper today about Toyota expanding in 2006. They will build 900,000 more vehicles and challenge GM as the number 1 auto maker in the world. It states that GM now makes over half it's vehicles outside the U.S. GM expects to sell 4.2 million in the U.S. this year and Toyota 2.3 million.

Neal Johns - 12-22-2005 at 10:26 AM

Ken, of course I know about Jeeps; I am a Husband, and Husbands know everything! Trust me! :cool:

I will get a Brute with a Hemi in it as soon as I hit the lottery and can afford to buy all the parts that will break on that pretty JEEP! :lol:

Ken Cooke - 12-22-2005 at 10:31 AM

Neal, this one is for you!

new jeep willys

eetdrt88 - 12-22-2005 at 06:06 PM

yea right :lol:

Iraqi navy trucks

Cincodemayo - 12-22-2005 at 06:22 PM

[Edited on 12-23-2005 by Cincodemayo]

David K - 12-22-2005 at 06:40 PM

Gee, I hope they aren't trying to get to Shell Island at HIGH TIDE!!! :lol:

Ken Cooke - 12-25-2005 at 10:12 AM

Oh, what a feeling!

Phil S - 12-26-2005 at 11:59 AM

eerdrt 88. Your pic brings back memories of the l949 Willys Jeepster that my dad bought me in l950 as my first car!!! They have come a long ways for sure.
Ken. Was there a Jeep in that mess somewhere? Never anything I ever want to go through. One of the reasons I drive a 3/4 ton 4X4 diesel quad cab Dodge pickup in Baja since my first one in l996. Can't get through those places the Toyota & Land Cruiser & Wrangler & the other "smaller ones" can get. But I have done my share of 'arroyo runnin', and haven't found anywhere that I got "hung up" or "buried" yet!!!! And with averaging 18.5 mpg on the trips down & back and driving a "hair over the speed limits going down", can't complain about that. And I'm told by stick shift diesel owners that they are getting upwards to 22 mpg. What do these smaller rigs get with their V-6's & 4 cyl. Remember. The Dodge diesel is a straight six. Wonder what a v-6 diesel Cummings would be like?

'89 Isuzu Trooper--------

Barry A. - 12-26-2005 at 05:06 PM

my 4 dr. Trooper gets about 23mpg on the road, and about 18 in the rocks and sand. 2.6 liter 4 cyl. stick shift.

Love it!!!!

Ford Bronco !!

A-OK - 12-26-2005 at 07:45 PM

Engine
2.0 liter Ford Duratorq TDCi 16-valve turbodiesel

Horsepower
128 bhp (178 with nitrous oxide boost) @ 4000 rpm

Torque
244 lb-ft @ 1800 rpm

Weight
3100 lbs

Confusing conclusions.......

Hook - 1-4-2006 at 04:26 PM

......from the articles.

However, I must say that the on-highway driving advantages of the Frontier would make me a buyer over the Tacoma. It seemed like the editors also concluded this.

And why the hell has Toyota still not gone to 4 wheel discs?

I owned a Nissan P/U in the mid 80s and a Toyota P/U in the 90s and I must say that even back then, the difference in ride comfort and noise levels was immediately noticeable between the two. The Nissan was the clear winner in both cases. Toyotas are the kings of reliability but they are loud and much less comfortable than the Nissans in the newer ones I've driven. And, at least according to Consumer Reports, the differences in reliability aren't statistically significant.

I would certainly consider the Frontier if I was going Tonka..... :lol:

David K - 1-4-2006 at 05:48 PM

Just test drive the two for yourself... then figure in all the Baja people who have Toyota trucks and all those with Nissan trucks (are their any?), and weigh them all.

I had no special opinion of Toyota before owning one... in fact, I went to Ford first for my new truck... They wouldn't take my POS Chryslar-Plymoth Grand Voyager van as a trade in... Toyota Carlsbad made it all happen very painlessly... so, 5 years later and after perfect Baja proven 136,000 miles, I stayed with Toyota. Neal Johns and others from Amigos de Baja strongly suggested somebody like me should get the Tacoma... Now, I have joined their ranks!

Oh, by the way... yesterday I had my 15,000 mile service performed (4 months old)... and that whistle/ squeel I had occaisionally coming from the front right brake at Hwy. speed is gone. Seems that a small metal plate was bent... Otherwise no problems... and my truck is so quiet on the road that I actually heard that whistle... Maybe they were noisey years ago. This truck is even quieter and nicer riding than my 2001 Tacoma... and more powerful, even though it is a bigger truck and now a four door model... still gets 16-20 mpg.

[Edited on 1-5-2006 by David K]

Years ago, yes...

Hook - 1-20-2006 at 03:46 PM

....but these articles are very recent and the noise level in the Toyotas is still an issue, apparently.

I don't deny that there are many more toyota's going to Baja but all that is saying is that Toyota sells more than Nissan. That's been the case for awhile but is not indicative of a superior product.

I like empirical evidence like Consumer's Report ratings and the findings of the test drivers and their equipment. Given the data, I would drive BOTH vehicles before making a choice.

Did you even drive a Nissan before deciding on your new Toyota, Dave?

David K - 1-20-2006 at 04:37 PM

No, I had a friend with a Nissan... and just one look under the hood at all the vacuum tubes all over his engine... and I shuddered... I was Nissan neutral up till then, and that was a few years ago.. Perhaps they cleaned up that mess since. Heck, I was a big Subaru fan in the late 70's through the 80's... What a great car as far as quality and ability goes... I am disappointed they stopped making '4WD' (with low range) and are ALL WHEEL DRIVE only now (no low range)...

Hook, I respect Neal Johns' opinions and he was right on the mark with his Tacoma recommendation. But, he wasn't the only one... Bajaboy, jeans, and many more on Amigos were praising their Tacomas... Heck, our own web host Doug (Baja Nomad) has one!

Now, after 5 years of my '01 Tacoma and 136,000+ miles and NO breakdowns or complaints from me, I went back for another... Only a four door for my growing kids to ride in... and in '05 the Tacomas are totally changed, roomier and larger cargo area... bigger motor, same good milage as my '01...

I only paid for two things that went bad during those 136,000 miles on my '01 (other than normal wear items like brakes and tires)... That was an O2 sensor and the water pump... The water pump had a drip, discovered when they did the routene timing belt replacement at 90,000 miles...

My '05 is 5 months old now, has over 16,000 miles and that is a lot of trips to Baja as you all have seen... In fact, Baja Angel and I are going to El Rosario tonight (Baja Cactus Motel, naturally) for a weekend retreat, including good food and fun. Anyway, just the occaisional whistle sound from the front right and the way the ABS brakes work on dirt roads have been my only complaint so far. I am going to tell you the bad and the good as I do not work for Toyota... I am only reporting what I experienced for your benefit.

Go ahead and buy a Nissan... and then we will learn from your posts if that was a wise choice...

I guess I am just not much of a gambler! I just like the sure thing bet.

Bob H - 1-20-2006 at 05:21 PM

I think a lot of this stuff depends on what you USE your truck for. I certainly would not buy a Toyota truck to haul around a 3,000 pound cabover camper. I love our superduty F250 4x4 and it has had zero problems since I bought it new in 2001. I just like bigger, stronger, powerful trucks anyway. :spingrin:

Bob H

TMW - 1-20-2006 at 07:06 PM

I think Nissan and Toyota both build solid vehicles. Personally I think some of the Nissans look more like a Tonka toy than a truck, including the Titan. But thats me and to each his own. As to the noise level they are not that far off. The Toyota was 3 Db higher at 70mph and 3 Db on the long bed at full throttle. 3 Db is just a perceptable level change and may be do to the tires. I don't know if they've change it but the Toyota transfer case doesn't have a Neutral for towing. Maybe Nissan doesn't either.

Hook - 1-23-2006 at 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob H
I think a lot of this stuff depends on what you USE your truck for. I certainly would not buy a Toyota truck to haul around a 3,000 pound cabover camper. I love our superduty F250 4x4 and it has had zero problems since I bought it new in 2001. I just like bigger, stronger, powerful trucks anyway. :spingrin:

Bob H

Agree completely, Bob, but if I made a choice to tow a travel trailer around that weighed 3k or less, I would probably buy a Japanese truck. Probably a Tundra, as the Titan is still a little too unproven.

But, as you know, I have a Lance right now and believe my combination is the best compromise between economy, offroad ability, towing capacity and a moderate/spartan amount of living space. It can go anywhere and provide us with a place to sleep, a shower and head and a full kitchen. And I can still tow a boat, if necessary. There is really no Japanese truck that can do this; the trade-off in camper size is too severe. They can only accommodate a pop-up type, which also has drawbacks in wind.