BajaNomad

Questions about paying duty/declaring vs. not

BajaDave - 12-27-2005 at 01:04 AM

Bringing some stuff in a small cargo hauler trailer down soon. In addition to the usual stuff brought for camping and playing that comes back with us, we're bringing a couple of sofas, a bed, and a few other items for our place this time as well. What are the ramifications of getting the red light vs. declaring, and also how much is the duty, as well as how much if any amount is duty free? If declaring, do they hassle/nitpick about camping gear and toys that are not staying in Mexico? Also, what'll pass for a receipt showing cost?

Thanks for any insight!

[Edited on 12-27-2005 by BajaDave]

Dave - 12-27-2005 at 01:36 AM

First:

If you are towing a trailer it is almost certain you will get a red light so I would declare. It will give you the opportunity to distinguish between the stuff that stays, what comes back AND prevents a confrontational exchange. It also allows you to return (without penalty) if you can't come to terms. If you DON'T declare and get caught you could wind up paying fines AND/OR have everything (including your vehicle) confiscated.

Second:

What's the stuff worth? They're not stupid. If you make up a fake receipt they will know and you'll be back to square one. You MAY get away with it but you could also wind up having your car torn apart. Worth it? A legal declaration will cost you 18-20% at most.

Third:

If you have an FM3 you are allowed duty free importation of household goods. It's called a manaje de casa. Inquire at the consulate nearest you.

BajaDave - 12-27-2005 at 01:58 AM

Thanks Dave-- I'm not inclined to risk it. I knew about the option to return, but didn't realize that it wasn't extended to those who don't declare, and that's the clincher. Sofas and beds are well used, and really aren't worth much. I've had them a LONG time and no longer have receipts, and don't want to hear someone say they have value beyond what they originally costed me (bought used), so was thinking receipts would be the way to nip that in the bud.

Are you allowed any amount of value to be imported duty free, as like coming into the U.S.?

Thanks again. I'd love to hear anecdotal posts of how Nomads have done at Mexican customs to give me an idea of what to expect.

Dave - 12-27-2005 at 02:13 AM

Yeah, If you get a red light then they OWN you. If you declare you can always use return as a bargaining chip. Once, I brought down 8 used computers for a school donation and they wanted to charge me big time. I said, "send me back" and after 20 minutes of bargaining they let me go for $20.

Anything over $1,000 and you are supposed to use an importer but I've done it with more and gotten by.

I've known of a gringo that got caught with 46 cases of wine and talked his way through and also a National with $400 in plumbing supplies that got his car impounded. You just never know.

elgatoloco - 12-27-2005 at 07:45 AM

Observation at San Ysidro crossing.

They have a person who sits in an a chair on an elevated platform facing south upon which they are able to see into the back of a pickup as well as observe the red/green light. They can signal to the hombres at aduana if you get the red light or if you get the green light but you have stuff in the truck that looks like it should be declared. It happened to us recently while bringing down an old dresser. It was not showing above the bed, we got the green but heard a whistle and an official steped out into traffic to wave us over for inspection. An enclosed trailer may garner the same signal/response from 'el observatorio'. We showed them the old dresser and they said 'hasta la vista'.

oladulce - 12-27-2005 at 11:18 AM

The duty free allowance for stuff brought in to Mexico is only $50 dollars per person, and as Dave said, the amount you can import without a broker is $1000. We haven't brought in used items yet , but so far it's gone smoothly with the new things we've paid duty on since we've only claimed items up to $1000 dollars (per person) each time.

I made itemized lists of the things we had (in spanish to show a little effort) in the same format that they use on their facturas so it's as easy as possible for them. They will deduct the $50 off your total before calculating the tax. I bring all the sales receipts, tax ID's for the merchants, countries of orgin etc, but so far no one has looked at anything but the lists I typed up.

Unless you pay to import items brought in to Mexico for home construction or improvement, you can't claim them to reduce your Mexican capital gains tax liability when you sell.

They've had us open the trailer and we pointed out the items on the list. They looked right past the 6 surfboards (for 2 people), patio furniture (I mean, "camping furniture") ice chests, spare tires, etc. We went to the bank window and paid the duty and then back to the card table to get the stamp. Then you walk over and push the button- so far we've gotten the green. It's still a little tense until we get past this stage ( because there's still the 6 compartments of our truck's utility bed, and the entire back seat of our crew cab-with the seat removed for extra capacity, not to mention compartments inside the camper...)

We drive a truck with a camper which covers the "camping" items if we ever need it. If you're pulling your trailer with your Seville, you may not be able to get away with an excessive amount of tourist items as easily.

The only broker experiences I've ever read about were by BobandSusan who like to go through Otaymesa. That sounds like an all-day event that I'd like to avoid and it would be interesting to hear about experiences using a broker at San Ysidro , or better yet Tecate.

[Edited on 12-28-2005 by oladulce]

Bob and Susan - 12-27-2005 at 11:35 AM

...I ALWAYS pay 24%...they like me....

This year I'll import French Doors....I'll report when I do this

Dave - 12-27-2005 at 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
...I ALWAYS pay 24%...they like me....


Hint:

If you don't need a factura and/or it's less than $1000 always use San Ysidro. Otay tacks on brokerage fees.

Declare

mcgyver - 12-27-2005 at 12:54 PM

I can tell you about Los Agadones: I had never bothered to drive thru the declare lane where you are supposed to park and get out and walk over and push a button for the red or green light. I had carried across tons of stuff with a "Pase'.
One morning with a fiberglass shower stall in 3 huge boxes I drove up as always, they had me pull over and come in to the office where I was informed I was under arrest and would be sent to Mexicalli for trying to evade duty, I claimed ingnorance, they did not have any one availabe to drive my new Tacoma so we waited and I bargained. They chewed on me for 30 minutes and then took me out and demostrated how to pull up to the chain in the "Declare Lane" and get out and walk over behind a bush and push the button on the post. They statred making an inventory of my load, then I produced Home Deppot register receipts, he said why didi you not do that at first! then I whipped out our FM-3's. Then he listed everything ($850 worth) deducted $350 from that and said I am charging you $34 duty and you must go back out and push the button and if it comes up green you can go but next time you must be in the declare lane, to do otherwise is intent to smuggle and you will be arrested. So now I go in the declare lane and they say " Pase'.
I later went the the website and it explains the laws completly but it says the Red/green is random. Yes and I am Houdini!

Now I know dozens of people who do not declare and have never had a problem, and I know that some like David K. never had a problem at all in Baja in all their years of travel.. Me I have had stuff stolen at the checkpoints, been asked for my drivers lisence at check points, had the Mexican army land a heilcopter near my and tell me to get rid of my ham radios and some other aventures in the back country with them, so now I have an FM-3 , I go thru the declare lane and all you people who just drift around clueless thinking you are geniouses, your day is coming so don't give me any BS.

Dave - 12-27-2005 at 02:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mcgyver
they had me pull over and come in to the office where I was informed I was under arrest and would be sent to Mexicalli for trying to evade duty


I'm always amazed at stories gringos tell about smuggling stuff in. I guess they think the Mexicans are stupid. And these same folks would never, ever think of doing the same thing Northbound.

Remember, all it takes is meeting up with the wrong agent on the wrong day.

David K - 12-27-2005 at 05:41 PM

Just to be clear, I am officially a 'tourist' (but I prefer being called a traveler) as I do not have or keep any property in Mexico. I am not building any structure or leasing any land.

I have never had anything stolen in my 40 years of Baja travels nor had any hassels at any military checkpoint. Maybe it is how I use my head or have a positive attitude and try to speak THEIR language.

Broken 'the law'... yes:

I have brought used childrens clothing (my kids have outgrown, for the poorest of the poor) across the border and that is illegal... Clothes went to jrbaja and Juanita at Cielito Lindo because in both cases they knew the best places for those clothes to go.

Max, you are going to get Oso all worked up again with your spelling of Los Algodones! LOL

Maybe see you next weekend???

Diver - 12-27-2005 at 05:51 PM

Tow years ago, a buddy of mine who shall remain nameless, brainstormed a way to get electronics, furnishings, cabinets, appliances and a few other goodies into Baja for installation in his new Los Barilles home.

He actually got away with this;
He leased a large single unit truck and within two weeks he installed the solar/generator/batteries/controls, cabinets, appliances, wood flooring (click together), and added some furniture to make the thing look like a traveling RV/truck. He didn't actually connect many of the goodies but just enough to make it look good.

They got to Barilles and unloaded then reinstalled into the new house and drove back in the empty truck. Crazy gringos will try anything !!
.

Dave - 12-27-2005 at 06:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Diver
Crazy gringos will try anything !!


Yep. I wonder if he ever added up all the expense and labor vs actually paying the duties. :biggrin:

bigboy - 12-27-2005 at 07:01 PM

I too am going to bring down used items for my house in Ensenada! Most of the items are used kitchen appliances such as a microwave, toaster oven, utensils etc. Also a used 17" TV, stereo receiver, speakers, CD and VHS player. The only new items are bedroom items such as sheets, blankets and bedspread. I have receipts for the new items but not the used.
What should I expect to pay for the used items and who determines the value of them?

Bob and Susan - 12-27-2005 at 07:06 PM

They have a BIG book of values...

These are common items that inspectors see everyday...

my guess is 17%

Bruce R Leech - 12-27-2005 at 07:18 PM

if you cross after 12 midnight Dec 31 there wont be a sole there.

but Dave's advice is what I always do.

And that's why we always cross in the wee hours of the morning...

Mexray - 12-27-2005 at 07:58 PM

...say, between 4:00AM - 6:00AM. We don't really to take many, valuable things with us to 'camp'. Last October, we pulled into the 'declare' lot at San Ysidro - had to get our tourist visas. When leaving, the fellow at the 'pase' light switch was totally asleep! We waved to a guy over by the regular lanes, who yelled at the guy sleeping in the chair. the guy woke up, looked around, then at us and waved us through without even asking us to 'push the button' !I think he was sound asleep before we got out into traffic!

Things are usually more on the 'relaxed' side in the wee hours of the morning!

As for declaring used stuff, there's always 'receipts-R-us' as worked up on your home computer...you can make a nice heading for Joe's Used Appliances', etc. etc, list your stuff and use some believable "used pricing". Make more from other 'vendors' if required. A guy I knew, NEVER takes "new" stuff across - removes all packaging, smears a little 'dirt' on stuff, and brings his 'used' receipts...

You guys are killing me

Dave - 12-27-2005 at 09:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mexray
As for declaring used stuff, there's always 'receipts-R-us' as worked up on your home computer...you can make a nice heading for Joe's Used Appliances', etc. etc, list your stuff and use some believable "used pricing". Make more from other 'vendors' if required. A guy I knew, NEVER takes "new" stuff across - removes all packaging, smears a little 'dirt' on stuff, and brings his 'used' receipts...



...smears a little dirt on stuff...:lol::lol:

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in whatever place these guys go to have a drink after shift:

"Hey, Pancho! you won't believe what this P-nche said to me today."

"Yeah, well I got the same story about ten times."

"Tomorrow, Let's bust the fourth blue ford explorer through the gate."

"Nah, how about the sixth green pathfinder."

"Ok, but remember to act like Barney Fife. They expect it"

Dave...this guy was an equal opportunity smuggler...

Mexray - 12-28-2005 at 12:10 AM

...before coming back north, he would fill a couple of 5 gallon water jugs with Tequila (back when it was much cheaper), put some seals on them and put them in his boat! Alas, I guess all that Tequila finally got to him, as he's made that ultimate 'Border Crossing' to another life...

BajaDave - 12-28-2005 at 12:59 AM

Thanks everyone. I have receipts for the new stuff and made reasonable receipts with the computer for the old stuff, ala Mexray.

Now, what's the deal with pushing the button? You're already there, so I assume they look through your vehicle and trailer already, right? What's the light for? Extra scrutiny? Cavity search?

Bob and Susan - 12-28-2005 at 06:23 AM

...equal opportunity...

Everyone gets a chance to WIN the red or green...:lol::lol:

bajajudy - 12-28-2005 at 07:27 AM

After you have made your declaration without inspection, you still have the opportunity to have to unpack everything and go through piece by piece if you get the red light.

oladulce - 12-28-2005 at 10:14 AM

The first time they are looking to confirm the items on your list only. Then you close up everything, do the paperwork, walk over and pay, and push the button and , as Judy said "you are given another opportunity" to receive a more detailed inspection of all your stuff.

As far as crossing the border in the wee hours of the morning so Aduana might be slacking off (?)- this seems like it could backfire to me. I worked the Night shift in ICU for a very brief period and those of us not cut out for all-night duty would be looking for things to do to help stay awake. Gimme the sickest patients with the most tubes, drains and other tasks so I could stay busy (awake). My comatose patients were squeaky clean because they would get at least one bath at my worst time, around 3 am.

If you're the only one in that big ol Aduana parking lot at night or the early am and you have items to declare and pay duty on, seems like you might receive a more thorough inspection than during the day when the lot is full of people and buses, and a truck towing a trailer takes up way too much space in their parking lot for them to keep you very long.

Dave - 12-28-2005 at 10:29 AM

Here's something to consider:

If you get your visa at San Ysidro you will have to 'push the button' to get out. Doesn't matter if you are not declaring.

BajaDave - 1-11-2006 at 01:46 AM

All went well. Inspector looked at my list totaling around 900 dollars, transcribed a few of the items onto the official paperwork, and asessed a duty of about 95 dollars. Never even looked into the trailer. At those rates and hassle freeness, it's worth the piece of mind to declare, in my opinion. Thanks to everyone for the advice and experiences.

bajabound2005 - 1-11-2006 at 05:51 AM

We went through San Ysidro in Sept with a 4x6 cargo trailer and never considered going to the Declare lane as it was stuff we were taking for a 3 month stay and then bringing back. We didn't get the red light and we didn't get waved over! We thought nothing of it til our neighbors did the same thing and got waved over. They had a small pickup with a tarp covering the bed. Contents were the same -- household stuff for a 3 month stay. But next time we'll probably go to Declare just to cover our butts:P

DECLARE!

mcgyver - 1-11-2006 at 08:37 AM

Since this thread started I have sold my Yuma house (unexpectedly) and showed up at Algodones with stuff piled up on my Tacoma 6' high & lawn furniture on top of that, pulled to the left into the declare lane and two customs guys rushed over to shake my hand and welcome me to Mexico!
Smiling all the time they asked what all that stuff was and how much was it worth? Playing the game I said $300 and we had FM-3s, they said well maybe inventory it then ??
Did I want to set more value on it before we went to unload, since a lot of it was truly valueless to anyone except the wife I said set a price or inventory. They talked it over for a second and said you set the duty, I pulled out a twenty in each hand and all was smiles and "Pase". They did not want to unload all that junk and I did not care so we were all happy. I will always go to the declare lane if there is any question what so ever since as stated you then can argue every item with them and their book.
Go to the city park in Calexico and you will see the Mexicans preparing to return to Baja from shopping at the malls by opening every package, removing all tags and prices, crumpling up clothing etc. Then they can pass it as used from the flea market behind the PO.
Smuggling is not worth taking the chance, if it is new stuff like lumber or household goods just pay and go. Just remember if you are caught in the nothing to declare lane you have NO argument left and could be in big trouble if the customs man is having a bad day!
I was just lucky and truly did not know the law when I was caught the first time and I think I convienced them of that so they let me go by paying the duty and getting reammed out.

mcgyver - 1-11-2006 at 09:23 AM

Intent to bring it back to the USA has nothing to do with bringing it into Mexico. You are Importing it.
Returning it to the USA you are exporting it from Mexico and impoting it to the USA.
Either country can and will apply restrictions and duties to items. When the US customs asks you if you have anything to declare and you say no and get sent to secondary inspection and they find something on the "BAD" list you are in more trouble than you may think!
First even if then let you slide on an "BAD" item, for instance you have 4 cans of beer instead of the 3 allowed, OK throw 1 in the dumpster, but what they do not tell you is that they then put your licence # on the "watch list" and you will find your self in secondary often if you are a frequent crosser.
And if you think they do not track you and take pictures you are foolish. I got on the "Watch" list through a registration mistake by my dealership, I was crossing often. I went to Calexico, US customs put note on windshield " Suspicious Character" for secondary inspection, OK. Went to San Louis crossing, got note for secondary inspection "Dangerous Animal on board" 12 Customs, Agriculture and DEA agents and dogs crowded into my 21' motor home!! they tore it apart, broke the reefer door, spilled Corn Starch, open a quart of Mayo and stirred it with a screwdriver etc, etc! I was PO by then and threw a fit and got the head man out there, they then tried to cite me for having a Avocado which is legal in AZ , then got me for having 1 slice of ham (from Frys) OH BAD!! banned item! After 1 1/2 hours let go with a warning. BTW, I have no animal! I have a friend who is retired from that district of Customs, telling him the story he said that was mild compared to some! I got off the watch list (In a undisclosed manner) and get a pass every time since,. But take no chances, I would rather deal with a smiling Mexican Customs man than a frowning US one. I actually had one ask me why anyone with any sense would go to Mexico? I told him it was so ex-Marines could have a job, I guess I was lucky not to go back on the "Watch this 70 year old subversive Mexico traveler".




Quote:
Originally posted by bajabound2005
We went through San Ysidro in Sept with a 4x6 cargo trailer and never considered going to the Declare lane as it was stuff we were taking for a 3 month stay and then bringing back. We didn't get the red light and we didn't get waved over! We thought nothing of it til our neighbors did the same thing and got waved over. They had a small pickup with a tarp covering the bed. Contents were the same -- household stuff for a 3 month stay. But next time we'll probably go to Declare just to cover our butts:P

David K - 1-11-2006 at 09:31 AM

Great story Max!

Good spelling of Algodones, too!:biggrin: Oso will be so happy!:lol:

bajalou - 1-11-2006 at 10:00 AM

Ont time several years ago, I pulled in with a generator in the back of my P/u. The imigration guy said pull over to customs - not allowed or maybe pay duty. I pulled over and we could not find the customs inspector. Waited about 10 minutes talking and finally decided I would give him the duty - I offered 400NP and he said "No se?or, too much" and would only take 200NP.



:biggrin:

Neal Johns - 1-11-2006 at 06:14 PM

I know that mcgyver character, he is all bad! Polly is great, though, she is on my WiW List. Hi Max!:lol::lol::lol:

Is 50/50 OK We each get to win.

vgabndo - 1-11-2006 at 06:49 PM

A few years ago I had a big load of stuff for the place in San Nicolas which had to go in the 8' pickup bed 3/4 ton utility trailer behind the camper. To enclose the trailer I built 4' high sides and framed and sheathed a roof and put corrugated roofing on it. I loaded up my stuff and had good legit receipts for everything. I declared at customs, paid about $135. and was on my way. The overloaded trailer waddled all the way down the peninsula. On arrival I unloaded and started disassembling the enclosure. There had been 13 rafters and all the walls were double 3/4" plywood with 2x4's sandwiched between. The roofing was multi-layered, as was the sheathing. I poured a 7 x 8 foot slab and turned the enclosure into a nice storage shed.

The thing was so top-heavy that before I'd drive it through California, in addition to the stock shocks, I'd added two air shocks and a tortion bar!!

Watch List

mcgyver - 1-12-2006 at 04:37 AM

I know that Neal Johns too!! And I am going to report him for taking all them women to Mexico!
Polly says she is ready now!:yes::rolleyes:




Quote:
Originally posted by Neal Johns
I know that mcgyver character, he is all bad! Polly is great, though, she is on my WiW List. Hi Max!:lol::lol::lol:

El Jefe - 1-12-2006 at 05:06 AM

We are finding that building a house is all about decisions. What color should it be? Tile or granite? Which light fixtures? What kind of windows and doors? Should we get them in Mexico or import from the states? It's mind boggling, it's frustrating, and it's a whole lot of fun.



Consider if you will a fellow we know. Since he is having his house built in a semi tropical area, the recommendation of his builder is to use only hardwood interior doors and jams. Doors such as this, although very pretty, come at a substantial price. To purchase the doors made of imported wood from a local craftsman in Mexico would be too expensive. However, as luck would have it for our friend, his super-shopper wife found similar doors at a retailer in San Diego that got them from the wholesaler in Los Angeles that imported them from the manufacturer in Bolivia. Eleven fine mahogany doors purchased on the global market would soon grace their new home.



There were only two minor problems with this scenario. One, the doors and jams were unfinished. This required the fellow to set up a production line on his driveway in order to paint coat after coat of marine varnish on the beautiful wood. Paint, dry, paint, dry, paint, dry, etc. for about two weeks.



The other fly in the ointment was the complication of the importation of the doors and a whole bunch of other stuff he had accumulated (solar panels, electrical switches, roof sealer, and so on) across the border into Mexico. It seems that NAFTA has opened up the border to all kinds of commerce for big shot manufactures of TVs, autos and so forth, but when the little guy wants to bring some materials across for personal use they gig him with a 25-35% import duty. One has to go to the border, hire an import broker, file the necessary paperwork, fork over lots of money and at last go on one's somewhat less than merry way. Our friend was having none of that!



He stewed on it for days. He didn't sleep at night thinking about it. He mentally packed his pickup truck over and over again to make it look like he and his wife were just innocent tourists on a camping trip. His wife told him not to worry. What would be the worse thing that could happen? She asserted that the officials would simply turn the wayward tourists around at the border, with instructions about how to properly import the goods. He had visions of grim faced bureaucrats impounding his truck and throwing them both in a third world gulag for smugglers and dope fiends.



At last the morning of the crossing came. The goods were piled high in the camper shell making the bed they slept on much closer to the ceiling than usual. Assorted camping goods and a porta-potty were strategically placed near the rear door. At the suggestion of his wife he laid his favorite surfboard on top of the whole mess. "We are going camping on the beach, that's all."



When you cross the border you have two choices; go through the single "something to declare" lane, or bomb through one of several "nothing to declare just go for it" lanes. In the former you stop at the kiosk, show them your goods and receipts, grit your teeth, pay the duty and so forth? not for our friend. In the latter you drive past a signal light hoping to not even have to use your brakes. Usually the light stays green and you are on your way. Just to keep everyone honest, it randomly turns red and a poor soul gets waved over to the declare side for a little inspection. Our pal got the red light.



As he pulled over to the inspection area his wife said "Just be calm, honey it's only a surfing trip." Right, he thought as he pried his fingers off the steering wheel. The official approached his window and asked to look in the back of the truck. "Of course, no problema" said our friend. With as steady a hand as possible he unlocked the padlock on the back door. As the official climbed up on the bumper to examine the cargo our friend's emotional dam burst and a torrent of phrases gushed forth in Spanglish. "Si, vamos a camping in Los Cabos. Voy a surfing. Las olas son muy grande. Si, tenemos muchas equipment para el campo. Mi esposa es muy high maintenance. Somos so excited!" The official took a brief look in the back, gave a small yawn and said "Buen viaje." That was it? All that preparation and worry for a yawning "nice trip."



The tension melted away as he sped south through Tijuana at daybreak. His wife sipped her coffee and smiled.

oladulce - 1-12-2006 at 01:10 PM

Good story Jefe ! Funny how your (and your friend's) experiences parallel ours so often. Our trailer is already full of building supplies for the next trip and we'll claim and pay import on many items, but I really would like to disguise alot of stuff.

Mr oladulce says he's already having dreams about packing and various "getting caught" scenarios. The poor guy- I think I'll give in and ok importing with a broker this time if he wants. We'll probably save money on his Gastro-doctor bills for his impending ulcer in the long run anyway.

bajalou - 1-13-2006 at 09:45 AM

When they take your vehicle you begin to wonder about the "nothing to declare" lane.

:no:

mcgyver - 1-13-2006 at 04:32 PM

TOO TRUE Baja Lou !

I honestly did not know that they COULD & WILL and came very close to loosing a brand new Tacoma. I took the time to read the actual Mexican Customs Laws after that. If there is any doubt in my mind at all I declare! Then 4 out of 5 times they past you anyway. Nearly every time someone pulls in to camp and laughs about going through to "Nothing to Declare" lane with a big load of stuff I quake to think that next time they will call for a ride from the pokey because their rig is impounded.

Debra - 1-13-2006 at 05:33 PM

Quote:
I'm always amazed at stories gringos tell about smuggling stuff in. I guess they think the Mexicans are stupid. And these same folks would never, ever think of doing the same thing Northbound.

Remember, all it takes is meeting up with the wrong agent on the wrong day.


Dave, I don't think that most people assume Mexicans are "stupid", I think the problem might be (as it is with myself) that the "rules" never seem to be consistant, I'm more than happy to pay whatever duty is the law, but, Please just let me know, as a woman traveling alone. usually with my young son, and once with my younger g-daughter, what I'm NOT willing to do is leave my children alone while I'm taken away to figure the whole thing out.....

I only carry camping gear (I think) but, who is to say? Camping gear? My camping gear might be someone elses "home" supplies......:?: