10News.com
Veteran Agent Shoots Man By Border Fence
Man Allegedly Poised To Throw Rocks At Border Patrol Agent
POSTED: 9:41 am PST January 1, 2006
UPDATED: 9:45 am PST January 1, 2006
SAN DIEGO -- A U.S. Border Patrol agent Saturday shot at a man standing on the Mexican side of the border after the man -- who apparently was holding
rocks -- c-cked his arm and made a throwing motion, San Diego police said.
The man ran away but officers later were told that a man with a gunshot wound went to a Tijuana hospital, San Diego homicide Lt. Kevin Rooney said.
The agent was on the lookout for illegal border crossers when he spotted a man holding a makeshift ladder and standing close to a border fence on the
Mexican side, Rooney said.
The agent, who opened the gate of another fence, saw the man move toward the open gate, Rooney said.
The agent ran toward the man, who backed away and scooped up what appeared to be rocks, Rooney said.
When the man c-cked his arm as if to throw a rock, the agent fired, police said.
The man grabbed his arm, then ran down an embankment and disappeared, Rooney said.
U.S. and Mexican detectives are jointly investigating the incident, Rooney said. A completed report will be forwarded to the U.S. Attorney's Office
for review.
The agent involved in the shooting is an eight-year department veteran.
Officials did not release his name.
Copyright 2004 by 10News.com. All rights reserved. Twoody with a view - 1-2-2006 at 12:48 PM
it's probably me, but maybe you shouldn't throw rocks at someone with a gun. kinda like bringing a knife to a gun fight???Tucker - 1-2-2006 at 12:52 PM
Or from the agent's point of view: "getting in an ass- kicking contest with a one-legged man."bajalou - 1-2-2006 at 01:08 PM
If it was a US citizen on the US side of the border shot by a Mexican cop in Mexico I would expect every senator and congressman and even the Pres
demanding the cop be turned over to the US for punishment. I hope Mexico does just that. It was STUPID but not too much out of character for many
Border Agents who believe they're God.
The alledged Mexican probably got what he deserved-----
Barry A. - 1-2-2006 at 01:31 PM
Law Enforcement authorities are trained to meet deadly force with deadly, and superior, force. A rock being thrown by a man is "deadly force". The
USBP agent probably reacted the way he was trained, as it should be.
There will be an investigation, but without witnesses they can be inconclusive.
It always amazes me what some citizens expect from these agents who are daily exposed to life-threatening situations, and are trained to handle them.
Then, when they do, they are second-guessed, and condemmed, by those that really do not know the circumstances--------pretty amazing!!
When it comes to a law inforcement situation, LE officer ARE GOD-------that is why there job is so special, and they are trained as much as they are.
The decision to "take a life, or to spare it" is a God-like decision.
Barry, a retired LE Agent.Cincodemayo - 1-2-2006 at 02:04 PM
He's lucky he wasn't shot in the head....I agree with Barry. Obviously he was doing something "illegal". I myself would never attempt to throw a rock
at an armed person.....That belongs in the Idiot files.djh - 1-2-2006 at 02:11 PM
I respectfully disagree.... LE officers are NOT GOD - period.
I worked alongside law enforcement in Idaho (again) during a recent, very high profile and grizzly case. There was certainly no god complex by LE
involved.
While it was teribly stupid to even appear to throw rocks at an armed man (law enforcement or otherwise), Bajalou is likely correct - if this had
happened the other way around (a Mex. agent shooting a US citizen on US soil) it would be all over the papers & TV, and would be an international
incident. I do not see that comment as second-guessing or condemnation - and an investigation is certainly warrented - and apparently being
conducted.
It is not possible to be a righteously correct expert about this incident unless you were there and saw it happen.... It is an unfortunate situation
for both individuals - and given the current and ongoing border issue, this adds fuel to an already explosive issue.
[Edited on 1-2-2006 by djh]
Just think about it---------
Barry A. - 1-2-2006 at 02:26 PM
I repeat, "to take a life, or not to take a life" is the decision that many LE officers face all too often------is that not a "God-like" decision??
If you have never been faced with having to make that decision, you may not understand. LE officers, understandably, don't often talk about this
subject, especially with non-LE officers.
When faced with that split-second decision, hopefully the training of the LE officer will prevail, and the bad guy (or one that appears to be bad)
will be the one that falls. That is what it is all about, and just the way it is. LE officer ARE NOT PAYED to risk their lives. If this is NOT the
result you wish, then you will have to totally alter the existing training, and pay.
The politics of the incident are an entirely different matter, and way beyond my expertise, but I do have my opinions, which I will keep to myself.surfer jim - 1-2-2006 at 03:42 PM
"After a complete and though investigation".....nobody will give a hoot.....on either side.....
Surfer Jim-----I can think of at least two folks that---------
Barry A. - 1-2-2006 at 04:05 PM
-----------"will give a hoot"----the officer involved, and the recipient of the gunshot wound. If he dies, then who knows how many family and friends
will be "giving a hoot".
Then there is the officer------this will be in his mind for the rest of his life, believe me, and it will affect all who know him.
Other than that, I guess you are probably right.
I am still concerned that some think that this officer was "stupid", apparently because he did what he was trained to do?? (and I believe was correct
in doing, as I understand it, and giving him the benefit of the doubt). I don't get it.
As far fetched as it sounds, if a citizen of the USA had been throwing rocks at anybody, or threatening too, as he attempted to cross the border
illegally into Mexico, and had been shot by a Mexican agent, I for one would think that he got what he asked for------i.e. he is responsible for his
own actions, and the consequences of those actions. That is what the "rule of law" is all about. I would think that the Mexican Border guard acted
responsibly. (by USA-LE standards, anyway)
As you can tell, I am a bit "anal" on this particular subject, as I constantly see folks ready to blame and condem LE officers for "doing their job".
It blows my mind.JESSE - 1-2-2006 at 04:30 PM
So lets see, if i am in Mexico and a Border patrol agent points a gun this way ( wich isnt very unusual), i can shoot him and nothing will happen
since i was acting in self defense?
Someone said it correctly, if a Mexican cop had shot an american man for doing the same, all hell would break loose, hopefully the trigger happy
border patrol agent will get what he deserves.woody with a view - 1-2-2006 at 05:02 PM
Quote:
if i am in Mexico and a Border patrol agent points a gun this way ( wich isnt very unusual), i can shoot him and nothing will happen since i was
acting in self defense?
not if you aren't a trained legal bearer of a weapon. in that case you're a murderer. now if you're a mexican police or army and you and the border
patrol wanna have a little game of chicken, who's gonna stop you?The Sculpin - 1-2-2006 at 06:47 PM
This is all so stoopid...
Niether the officer nor the rock thrower are stupid. Both reacted to a perceived threat..period..end of discussion. The officer didn't wake up that
morning thinking he was going to shoot someone, and the same holds true for the rock dude. Thing happen quickly, vision and hearing can be impaired,
signals crossed, and communication misunderstood or lacking....and that's with the same language!!!!!
Sometimes you do all the right things, and you can still be wrong.
Anyone see Crash? Talk about mixed messages, missed cues, mistaken assumptions, and messed-up outcomes!!!
sigh..................Dave - 1-2-2006 at 06:49 PM
If they would just build the damn wall we wouldn't have to worry about this ever happening again.
How about a moat...With gators?
Maybe a mine field?
(Anything to keep the gringos out.) fdt - 1-2-2006 at 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
How about a moat...With gators?
And Shrek to go with it, he's already the same color as the border patrolPhil S - 1-3-2006 at 03:29 PM
Let's see if I've got this right. LE performing his duty. He sees a person "with a ladder" next to the fence. (Was he planning on sunbathing on this
ladder?) Or was he planning on scaling the fence? He sees LE. Figures out he can't do it with the officer there. Have to scare him off?????? Stoops
down and grabs some rocks. Now I didn't read that he actually threw them at the LE but I will determine that he must have, causing the LE to fire
back. Now most likely, the shot to the arm was a well aimed shot. If he wanted to kill him, I'm sure the article would have said, he was dead. But
he wasn't. It was an "arm shot". Precise shooting. Now. I've added my perception of what happened.
Jesse. Your reaction didn't surprise me. Why is that???
[Edited on 1-3-2006 by Phil S]Tucker - 1-3-2006 at 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Tucker
Or from the agent's point of view: "getting in an ass- kicking contest with a one-legged man."
So, what is it about my reaction that didn't surprise you? Do you have intimate knowledge of how I react in any given situation? The article
contains very little information, not enough to base any opinion on. Just an attempt at a little wry humor.Tucker - 1-3-2006 at 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Phil S
Jesse. Your reaction didn't surprise me. Why is that???
[Edited on 1-3-2006 by Phil S]
Wow Phil, you are a quick change artist! From Tucker to Jesse in just a couple of minutesSkeet/Loreto - 1-3-2006 at 04:06 PM
Jesse{ I see that you are offerring some of your valued Knowledge;
I have a Question for You?
You and your Wife are driving along and get stopped . The uniformed person carring an ak47 opens the door on the passenger side, leans across, rubbing
your wife as he leans, Cigarette in his mouth, picks up a small container of Quail Eggs, then ask you"Where did you get this Dope and where are you
going.??
What would happen to the Officer?
In Baja?
In California?
If you would be so kind as to give a Honest Answer.
Skeet/LoretoPhil S - 1-3-2006 at 05:57 PM
Actually Tucker, I edited out your name after I posted it, because I was commenting to Jesse/ Nothing wrong with what you said for sure.
And since then, I read in todays paper it was a death now. So it is more serious than when I made my comments. Quote: Raul Martinez, a spokesman for
the Border Patrol said the agent had been "assaulted by an individual who threw a large size rock" "The agent, fearing for his life at that time,
fired one round at the individaul, who fled back to Mexico," Martinez said Monday. It was said that the Mexican (18 years old) was with four other
people when he was shot. Regardless. It is sad that he died, rather than just a bullet in the arm.
