BajaNomad

Big problems with boat permits

Bruce R Leech - 1-11-2006 at 06:24 PM

Has any one gotten a Boat permit since the 1st of the year in B.C.S.? if so were you required to have temporary importation papers?

this is something new they are asking for here in our aria. but they cant tell you where to get them or how.

I haven't been able to get any Boat permits for any of my customers since the 1st.

they now also require a current registration and proof of owner ship and a photo I.D.

this is going to be a real problem for a lot of people .

I'm hoping fly fishing Pam or some one will have some input on this subject.

Boat permits

Osprey - 1-11-2006 at 06:47 PM

Every time this comes up I think about Gene Hackman in French Connection where he asks everybody "did you ever pick your feet in Pokipsy?" The rules in Ensenada are different from those in Santa Rosalia (form time to time, from official to official) but. The rules that exist in Mexico are these.
1. You need a Mexican fishing license to fish in a boat.
2. You need a boat permit to use the boat in Mexico.

On the boat permit, MEXICO may ask you for photos, proof that it is your boat. Do you do less in Idaho? Best I can do for JR's ghost is to shine a light on all the whiners he left behind. Follow the old rules, when they make new rules, follow them. Isn't that what you did in the States?

Bruce R Leech - 1-11-2006 at 07:31 PM

Osprey the point here is that they are now asking for temp. importation of your boat before you can get the permit.

have you checked up their since the first of the year? if so let me know what the new regs are there.

Frank - 1-11-2006 at 07:37 PM

Its all the same except for the temporary importation permit. Evry year they ask for the same things you listed above. Isnt the Temp Imp. permit for going to mainland mexico?

Bruce R Leech - 1-11-2006 at 07:42 PM

Iguess not anymore you need it now for boats in Baja Ca. Sur. I dont now about B.C.N.

Roberto - 1-11-2006 at 10:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Frank
Its all the same except for the temporary importation permit. Evry year they ask for the same things you listed above. Isnt the Temp Imp. permit for going to mainland mexico?


No. Most any boat that enters Mexico by water, or stays in a Marina will need the Temporary Importation Permit, to be applied for at the port of entry. Because trailer boats frequently do not enter the water at locations where a Port Captain is available, they have been "spared" this requirement. Sounds like that may be changing, but the requirement has always been there. If you use a foreign boat in Mexico you must have a Temporary Importation Permit.

Sounds like some things they require

flyfishinPam - 1-12-2006 at 12:23 AM

for charter boats is now being required for private vessels. I haven't heard some of these requirement of private boats in Loreto...YET! But hey when registering a vehicle why wouldn't you have photo ID and paperwork (title/factura/reciept) and permits anyway? The Mex fishing permit for the boat has always been required and is usually where the bottleneck in paperwork happens.

Bruce R Leech - 1-12-2006 at 12:01 PM

Pam you sell permits down there, are you having the same problems I am?

JZ - 1-12-2006 at 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Osprey
The rules that exist in Mexico are these.
1. You need a Mexican fishing license to fish in a boat.
2. You need a boat permit to use the boat in Mexico.



To clarify, you only need the boat permit if you are using it for fishing. Correct?

One person reported Marina Real in San Carlos on the Mainland is now allowing boats w/o the 10 year TIP since they removed the requirement in December for vehicle permits for travel in Sonora down to Guaymas.

JZ - 1-12-2006 at 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
No. Most any boat that enters Mexico by water, or stays in a Marina will need the Temporary Importation Permit, to be applied for at the port of entry. Because trailer boats frequently do not enter the water at locations where a Port Captain is available, they have been "spared" this requirement. Sounds like that may be changing, but the requirement has always been there. If you use a foreign boat in Mexico you must have a Temporary Importation Permit.


Not so fast my friend. Most of the trailerable boat in San Carlos on the mainland don't have 10 TIPs. In the past they obtained a temporary import permit as part of the Sonora Only program (one time use, up to 6 months). Now that it is a free transit zone down to Guaymas, people aren't getting any import permits. At least one marina is telling people that it is not required.

Roberto - 1-12-2006 at 02:24 PM

Quote:
At least one marina is telling people that it is not required.

That's interesting, because marine regulations say you must have a TIP when entering a port of call in Mexico. I know that, up until recently, San Carlos was enforcing this if you used the marina. That may have changed in terms of local enforcement, however.

Bruce R Leech - 1-12-2006 at 07:41 PM

where do you get a TIP

Roberto - 1-13-2006 at 08:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
where do you get a TIP

Port Captain for you area.

Also available

Hook - 1-13-2006 at 08:46 AM

at land-based ports of entry on the mainland, like k-21 below Nogales.

JZ - 1-13-2006 at 12:41 PM

At places like San Carlos and LA PAZ, the marina will do all the leg work for you, for a small fee. Or in Guaymas you can go directly to Aduana yourself.

At k21, I belive it is processed through the Banjercito office. That is definitely the fastest way. You receive the TIP immediately.

Bruce R Leech - 1-13-2006 at 07:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
where do you get a TIP

Port Captain for you area.



he never herd of it .

that is Mulege:lol:

turtleandtoad - 1-13-2006 at 07:44 PM

I just got my fishing/boat permits from the Vags' and when I asked about TIP's they said that TIP's are needed on the mainland (south of the free zone) but not in Baja.

Bruce R Leech - 1-14-2006 at 08:04 AM

from what I'm finding out this seems to affect only B.C.S. all is normal in B.C. north.

My guess is that this is a mistake made by the office in La Paz and hopefully it will get straitened out in the next few weeks.

CaboMagic - 1-14-2006 at 08:31 AM

I can only speak to the area in which we are - Cabo San Lucas proper - and offer these very unofficial comments: In CSL there are many visitors that come to port and 'set up shop' even tho they sign a marina slip rental agreement stating they are in port for recreational purposes only. Some of these (need a word here that is clean but appropriate) even have websites for business and operate without required documentation/licensing/etc etc - which also means no taxes for revenue .... Once again, enforcement of the rules, requirements and laws is and will always be the toughie - and this is true all over not just here.

So perhaps making certain requirements across the board, and requiring that which was previously un-necessary, now necessary, is in means to eliminate and crackdown in some way of those that innocently come to fish, and then begin decide to easily slip into a full blown business without ...

Hard as it is to comprehend, many (far to many?) still come believing they can do what they want, how they want, as they want - and perhaps in some cases, and in some areas and arenas, they can ... I want to believe that even in Mexico, even in BCS, rules, following of the laws for business operation, and enforcement of them, is for everyone. The double edge sword of this tho, in my very humble opinion, is that with this comes the explosive development of areas into a city/region that mirrors many USA cities which many amigos say they are getting away from .. to this I can only say that we do what we can and suggest a balance can exist .. and hope others can find ways to do so as well. Respect the waters, respect the land and respect and enforce limits. We do.

Bruce I respectfully offer only the suggestion that whatever office of whatever agency you or anyone go to, accept that if you are in 'their jursdiction' and 'they' are requiring all paperwork be completed in pink ink, find some pink-ink pens and do so .... since your area may not be one that has the aforementioned blatant disregard, perhaps the details of the new rules have not yet reached your areas officials or their 'soldiers', only that new rules are in place and are to be followed, yet no one is quite sure what they are exactly, or, how or what to enforce - yet ....

Wishing you, and all well amigos and amigas ... Lori Garcia

P.S. on edit - part of the ID process is to stop/curb what used to occur with cars being stolen and brought across the USA border ...

[Edited on 1-14-2006 by CaboMagic]

djh - 1-14-2006 at 09:04 AM

Bruce & fellow sailors & boaters:

I don't know if this gives you any additional help for what to do with a boat already in Mulege.... but the Lattitute 38 "Lectronic Lattitudes" BaHaHa page provides a good general overview for those sailing into MX., and might offer some :light: It is a good general info site:

http://www.baja-haha.com/Guide/index.html

Here is the bit that includes TIP (temporaty importation permit). I apologize in advance if you've already read this...

Good luck! I will be trailering my sailboat down one day, so I'm interested in how this works out for you... please keep my posted.

djh

The New Clearing Rules in Mexico

If this will be your first time cruising in Mexico, you have no idea how lucky you are that the rules for 'domestic clearing' have changed. In the bad old days - meaning before April 19, 2005 - it took a lot of time and money to clear out of one port captain's district and into another port captain's district. It involved going to the Port Captain, Immigration, Aduana (Customs) sometimes, to a bank, and back to the port captain. If the port captain required you to use a ship's agent, it could cost you over $100, and take all day. And then you'd have to do it all over again at the next port - even if it was only 10 miles away. It was a tremendous waste of cruiser time and money, and much disliked.

Clearing in and out of Mexico Today. The procedure for clearing into your first port of entry in Mexico is the same as it's always been. You visit the Port Captain to get papers clearing your boat into the country. Then you visit Immigration to get a tourist card / visa for each member of your crew. Finally, you visit Aduana to get your boat's 10-Year Temporary Import Permit. You have not cleared in until you've gotten all these papers. If you want, you can hire a ship's agent to do the paperwork for you. Expect that it will take all day or even overnight, and it can't be done on weekends or holidays.

BTW:Mexican Ports of Entry

Ensenada, Baja
Cabo San Lucas, Baja
Cedros, Baja
San Carlos, Baja
Loreto, Baja
Santa Rosalia, Baja

djh - 1-14-2006 at 09:19 AM

BTW (again).... I found this odd little upcoming anniversary ditty on the L38 Calendar...

Jan. 18 - Back in 1778, Captain James Cook discovers the 'Sandwich Islands'. When he later returns, the Hawaiian natives have him for lunch.

:biggrin:

Roberto - 1-14-2006 at 11:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
where do you get a TIP

Port Captain for you area.



he never herd of it .

that is Mulege:lol:


Bruce, if you are serious about this, here is what I would do at this point.

Drive to Santa Rosalia, and talk to the owners Marina there. Most marinas, as JZ states offer port clearance services. I don't know if they do or not, but it's a good place to start. Second, try the Port Captain. Failing that, check with Aduana. They are actually the ones that issue the TIP, but can be (in my experience) the most difficult to deal with.

Santa Rosalia is an official Port of Entry, responsible for the area between Bah?a de Los Angeles and Bah?a Concepci?n ' if you can?t find out what you need there, I have no idea where else you could go. On second thought the Navy, which often checks for these papers, especially in remote locations may know.

The Temporary Import Permit allows a non-resident to enter and stay with his/her boat, so it would not apply to you. Most important, it allows same to leave the boat behind legally when leaving Mexico temporarily. The standard recommendation when leaving a boat behind is for the dockmaster (or whoever is watching the boat) to have plenty of copies of the TIP along with copies of the original tourist card that was used to obtain it.

Finally, the option of a 20-year TIP is great, as it takes care of the problem for a long time.

Enforcement of rules in Mexico is inconsistent and interpreted differently in different locations, but the letter of the law is that a TIP is necessary EVERYWHERE in Mexico. JZ mentions some exceptions I know nothing about, and he should given that San Carlos is his stomping ground.

Since we are on the subject of the letter of the law, here are the documents that you are supposed to have (again, the letter of the law) to enter Mexico with a foreign-flagged boat as a non-resident. These are written with a sea, not land, entry into the country:

1. Vessel Document or Registration
2. Passports (exceptions for U.S. citizens apply)
3. Proof of Insurance and Endorsements
4. Boat Fishing Permit
5. Individual Fishing Licenses
6. Mexico Tourist Cards (bank receipt included)
7. Crew List (Lista de Tripulantes)
8. Temporary Import Permit

In addition to this, should a boat leave port without the owner, the captain must present a notarized letter (in Spanish) from the owner stating the captain has permission to use the boat in Mexico over a specified range of dates.

There you have it - the Mexican Paperwork Cha-Cha-Cha. Having lived in Mexico as long as you have, I'm quite sure you have a good appreciation of what it means to enter a Mexican Port, and go through the dance steps necessary to fulfill all the above requirements. That's why Marina clearance services are worth their weight in gold.

JZ - 1-14-2006 at 11:27 AM

Good post.

"Drive to Santa Rosalia, and talk to the owners Marina there. Most marinas, as JZ states offer port clearance services. I don't know if they do or not, but it's a good place to start."

They don't. Santa Rosalia was notoriously one of the worst ports to clear in, out of, in the "bad old days" mentioned in Latitude 38. You had to go to immigration, API, the port captain, the bank, and back to the port captain. Had to do this twice, once when arriving and once when leaving. It took 3 hours at a minimum. Walk here, sit, walk there, sit, walk... One time we didn't realize we were actually finished with the port captain, and sat on the little bench for an extra 30 minutes!

"Finally, the option of a 20-year TIP is great, as it takes care of the problem for a long time." TIP's are 10-years now.

"4. Boat Fishing Permit
5. Individual Fishing Licenses"

This are only required if you are fishing or have ANY fishing gear on board.

Agree that you can most likely get a TIP SR. If not, I'm sure you can in Loreto. The port captain in Loreto is very helpful. The procedure in Loreto was always a lot simplier. While clearing in the port captain would make arrangements to help you get gas!


[Edited on 1-14-2006 by JZ]

Roberto - 1-14-2006 at 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JZ
4. Boat Fishing Permit
5. Individual Fishing Licenses


Hmmmm .... I would have though you know better than that. Strictly speaking, you are correct. However, ANY single piece of fishing equipment aboard, whether fishing or not, can (and has been) interpreted as evidence of a need for them.

The point is simple - get the permits, it's no big deal, and avoid potential problems if you have a rusted hook aboard. And the problems can range all the way to confiscation.

[Edited on 1-14-2006 by Roberto]

JZ - 1-14-2006 at 12:03 PM

Seems to me we are saying the same thing.

I don't fish and don't have ANY fishing gear, so I don't get the permits.

Roberto - 1-14-2006 at 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JZ
I don't fish and don't have ANY fishing gear, so I don't get the permits.


You don't fish? Oh, my! :o

JZ - 1-14-2006 at 03:32 PM

No, except Bruce is saying they are asking for them in Mulege, which is what started the whole discussion.

Bob and Susan - 1-14-2006 at 03:37 PM

Actually Bruce gets fishing licenses and boat permits all the time in Santa Rosalia....

Now Santa Rosalia is asking to get these items you need a Temporary Import Permit.

turtleandtoad - 1-14-2006 at 04:25 PM

And the saga continues :fire:

LarryK - 1-14-2006 at 07:58 PM

Get your permits in the states or La paz. This is the way it has always been in Mexico. Different rules everywhere.

djh - 1-15-2006 at 11:25 AM

Found this doing a Google search on Mexico Boat Temporary Importation Permit:

http://www.mexconnect.com/MEX/austin/boat_eng.html

more info than needed, but insightful.

and:

http://www.mexonline.com/boatmex.htm

and:

http://www.marinadelapaz.com/contenidos/frequent_questions.h...

good luck, Bruce! Keep us posted. I plan to trailer my little sailboat down one day, so it is of intrinsic interest to me.

djh

Bruce R Leech - 1-15-2006 at 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaboMagic
I can only speak to the area in which we are - Cabo San Lucas proper - and offer these very unofficial comments: In CSL there are many visitors that come to port and 'set up shop' even tho they sign a marina slip rental agreement stating they are in port for recreational purposes only. Some of these (need a word here that is clean but appropriate) even have websites for business and operate without required documentation/licensing/etc etc - which also means no taxes for revenue .... Once again, enforcement of the rules, requirements and laws is and will always be the toughie - and this is true all over not just here.

So perhaps making certain requirements across the board, and requiring that which was previously un-necessary, now necessary, is in means to eliminate and crackdown in some way of those that innocently come to fish, and then begin decide to easily slip into a full blown business without ...

Hard as it is to comprehend, many (far to many?) still come believing they can do what they want, how they want, as they want - and perhaps in some cases, and in some areas and arenas, they can ... I want to believe that even in Mexico, even in BCS, rules, following of the laws for business operation, and enforcement of them, is for everyone. The double edge sword of this tho, in my very humble opinion, is that with this comes the explosive development of areas into a city/region that mirrors many USA cities which many amigos say they are getting away from .. to this I can only say that we do what we can and suggest a balance can exist .. and hope others can find ways to do so as well. Respect the waters, respect the land and respect and enforce limits. We do.

Bruce I respectfully offer only the suggestion that whatever office of whatever agency you or anyone go to, accept that if you are in 'their jursdiction' and 'they' are requiring all paperwork be completed in pink ink, find some pink-ink pens and do so .... since your area may not be one that has the aforementioned blatant disregard, perhaps the details of the new rules have not yet reached your areas officials or their 'soldiers', only that new rules are in place and are to be followed, yet no one is quite sure what they are exactly, or, how or what to enforce - yet ....

Wishing you, and all well amigos and amigas ... Lori Garcia

P.S. on edit - part of the ID process is to stop/curb what used to occur with cars being stolen and brought across the USA border ...

[Edited on 1-14-2006 by CaboMagic]


you missed the whole point . try to re read the thread.

Bruce R Leech - 1-15-2006 at 02:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by djh
Bruce & fellow sailors & boaters:

I don't know if this gives you any additional help for what to do with a boat already in Mulege.... but the Lattitute 38 "Lectronic Lattitudes" BaHaHa page provides a good general overview for those sailing into MX., and might offer some :light: It is a good general info site:

http://www.baja-haha.com/Guide/index.html

Here is the bit that includes TIP (temporaty importation permit). I apologize in advance if you've already read this...

Good luck! I will be trailering my sailboat down one day, so I'm interested in how this works out for you... please keep my posted.

djh

The New Clearing Rules in Mexico

If this will be your first time cruising in Mexico, you have no idea how lucky you are that the rules for 'domestic clearing' have changed. In the bad old days - meaning before April 19, 2005 - it took a lot of time and money to clear out of one port captain's district and into another port captain's district. It involved going to the Port Captain, Immigration, Aduana (Customs) sometimes, to a bank, and back to the port captain. If the port captain required you to use a ship's agent, it could cost you over $100, and take all day. And then you'd have to do it all over again at the next port - even if it was only 10 miles away. It was a tremendous waste of cruiser time and money, and much disliked.

Clearing in and out of Mexico Today. The procedure for clearing into your first port of entry in Mexico is the same as it's always been. You visit the Port Captain to get papers clearing your boat into the country. Then you visit Immigration to get a tourist card / visa for each member of your crew. Finally, you visit Aduana to get your boat's 10-Year Temporary Import Permit. You have not cleared in until you've gotten all these papers. If you want, you can hire a ship's agent to do the paperwork for you. Expect that it will take all day or even overnight, and it can't be done on weekends or holidays.

BTW:Mexican Ports of Entry

Ensenada, Baja
Cabo San Lucas, Baja
Cedros, Baja
San Carlos, Baja
Loreto, Baja
Santa Rosalia, Baja



we are only talking about trailer boats here. we under stand the laws for sailing in to a Mexican port.

Bruce R Leech - 1-15-2006 at 02:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Quote:
Originally posted by Roberto
Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
where do you get a TIP

Port Captain for you area.



he never herd of it .

that is Mulege:lol:




Bruce, if you are serious about this, here is what I would do at this point.

Drive to Santa Rosalia, and talk to the owners Marina there. Most marinas, as JZ states offer port clearance services. I don't know if they do or not, but it's a good place to start. Second, try the Port Captain. Failing that, check with Aduana. They are actually the ones that issue the TIP, but can be (in my experience) the most difficult to deal with.

Santa Rosalia is an official Port of Entry, responsible for the area between Bah?a de Los Angeles and Bah?a Concepci?n ' if you can?t find out what you need there, I have no idea where else you could go. On second thought the Navy, which often checks for these papers, especially in remote locations may know.

The Temporary Import Permit allows a non-resident to enter and stay with his/her boat, so it would not apply to you. Most important, it allows same to leave the boat behind legally when leaving Mexico temporarily. The standard recommendation when leaving a boat behind is for the dockmaster (or whoever is watching the boat) to have plenty of copies of the TIP along with copies of the original tourist card that was used to obtain it.

Finally, the option of a 20-year TIP is great, as it takes care of the problem for a long time.

Enforcement of rules in Mexico is inconsistent and interpreted differently in different locations, but the letter of the law is that a TIP is necessary EVERYWHERE in Mexico. JZ mentions some exceptions I know nothing about, and he should given that San Carlos is his stomping ground.

Since we are on the subject of the letter of the law, here are the documents that you are supposed to have (again, the letter of the law) to enter Mexico with a foreign-flagged boat as a non-resident. These are written with a sea, not land, entry into the country:

1. Vessel Document or Registration
2. Passports (exceptions for U.S. citizens apply)
3. Proof of Insurance and Endorsements
4. Boat Fishing Permit
5. Individual Fishing Licenses
6. Mexico Tourist Cards (bank receipt included)
7. Crew List (Lista de Tripulantes)
8. Temporary Import Permit

In addition to this, should a boat leave port without the owner, the captain must present a notarized letter (in Spanish) from the owner stating the captain has permission to use the boat in Mexico over a specified range of dates.

There you have it - the Mexican Paperwork Cha-Cha-Cha. Having lived in Mexico as long as you have, I'm quite sure you have a good appreciation of what it means to enter a Mexican Port, and go through the dance steps necessary to fulfill all the above requirements. That's why Marina clearance services are worth their weight in gold.


you are right . that is the first thing we did and they know nothing about temp. importation of trailer boats in to B.C.S. that is why I posted here

Bruce R Leech - 1-15-2006 at 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JZ
Good post.

"Drive to Santa Rosalia, and talk to the owners Marina there. Most marinas, as JZ states offer port clearance services. I don't know if they do or not, but it's a good place to start."

They don't. Santa Rosalia was notoriously one of the worst ports to clear in, out of, in the "bad old days" mentioned in Latitude 38. You had to go to immigration, API, the port captain, the bank, and back to the port captain. Had to do this twice, once when arriving and once when leaving. It took 3 hours at a minimum. Walk here, sit, walk there, sit, walk... One time we didn't realize we were actually finished with the port captain, and sat on the little bench for an extra 30 minutes!

"Finally, the option of a 20-year TIP is great, as it takes care of the problem for a long time." TIP's are 10-years now.

"4. Boat Fishing Permit
5. Individual Fishing Licenses"

This are only required if you are fishing or have ANY fishing gear on board.

Agree that you can most likely get a TIP SR. If not, I'm sure you can in Loreto. The port captain in Loreto is very helpful. The procedure in Loreto was always a lot simplier. While clearing in the port captain would make arrangements to help you get gas!


[Edited on 1-14-2006 by JZ]


Ditto

Bruce R Leech - 1-16-2006 at 06:25 PM

here in B.C.S. to get the temporary importation for your boat and trailer you need take your boat and all papers to the office of the Aduana and pay 50 dollars US. this temporary importation. is valid for 10 years. with this and your other papers you will be able to get your boat permit.