BajaNomad - El Palomar canyon

El Palomar canyon

BAJACAT - 1-12-2006 at 12:30 AM

Hi Nomads, just got my cp fix from a terrible crash. Just in time to let you guys know about my trip Originally to Guadalupe-C but end up esxploring el Palomar canyon. Whe cross the border in tecate friday, the 6 about 9:30. stop to get somethig to eat end up eating hamburgers in tecate what a irony hamburgers in mexico o well, got to the laguna exit about 10:20 am road is in pretty go shape, got to the canyon around 10:40 am due to the peolple in my caravan did'nt fell good doing 80 ml/hr on the Salada so we had to slow down.stay in Arturos El Sol camp. perfect weather 76* degress., next day got ready and took off to explore el palomar canyon 30 miles down the road. road condition is ok up to the 24 mile marker then in whinds to the west to the top of the canyon thats when you start crossing sand washes this is the entrance to el palomar canyon ( 31 56' 39" N 115 40' 89" W ) this is where the bad road starts. this canyon is just 4 miles up the stream going throught a palm fill oasis at the end is a bathing pool just like the ones in GC this is the end of the road ( 31 56' 25" N 115 45' 06" ). Altitud 1725 FT The next day when to see the other camps on the east side of the stream, across from Arturo walking around the camps I meet the original owner of GC Don Jose Loya espinoza ( according to them they are related to the espinozas of el Rosario.) He told me that the owner of Arturos side was Jose Loya Murillo wich die in 1987, but the all the canyon belongs to him, he sold the other side to Jose Loya Murillo Arturos Dad. Afther all, it was a nice trip putting a side that whe run out of paper plates and had to recycle old ones. another great trip to GC like always whe enjoy being there. looking foward to go back soon...

jide - 1-12-2006 at 12:41 AM

Thanks for the report... any pics?

BAJACAT - 1-12-2006 at 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jide
Thanks for the report... any pics?

I still can figure out Jide I will e-mail the pictures to David K to see If he can post them for me.

Camping

John M - 1-12-2006 at 05:52 AM

Bajacat, did you have reservations and was there no problem with them? Recall Ken had some difficulties and had to relocate to another camp site I think.

What did they charge you to camp? Being there on Friday nite and Saturday nite - was it a bit crowded?

Palomar sounds very interesting spot to visit. Good report.

John M

bajataco - 1-12-2006 at 08:43 AM

WOW - cool post. Thanks for helping with the pics DK.

I am totally amped up to see that pool full of water! When we had visited that spot in 2000, the water line coming from the hot spring was all busted up and the pool was dry. During that visit, we backpacked into the canyon and spend the night camped amidst the boulders and palms. Nobody was there, but there was an old cowboys casita at the big palm grove. It was vacant, but I could tell it was a stop-over because the cowboys had hung provisions from the rafters on the porch (safe from vermin). So is this a developed campground now? Is there a fee to use the hot tub? Any idea what the water temp in the tub was? It seemed to me like the water had to travel a good distance and there might not be enough volume flowing to keep that much water "hot". Maybe warm though. A very idyllic setting, but it was a bummer to see the old spring house and source trammeled by cattle and the source was a mucky mess of cow pies. Is it still like that? Did you hike further up the canyon, past the spring? Sorry for all of the questions - but it's not too often I come across someone who has been back up in there.

Very cool pics of your Dodge crossing the rock garden by the way!

jide - 1-12-2006 at 12:17 PM

WOW!!! This is AWESOME!! I had previously heard of a dried up hot springs there, and never bothered to make the trip to see it in person.

jide - 1-12-2006 at 12:17 PM

Bajacat, when you mention:"Altitud 1725 FT The next day when to see the other camps on the east side of the stream"

are you talking about Palomar or Guadalupe?

TMW - 1-12-2006 at 01:02 PM

Thanks for the report. Sounds like a very interesting area to explore.

bajataco - 1-12-2006 at 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jide
Bajacat, when you mention:"Altitud 1725 FT The next day when to see the other camps on the east side of the stream"

are you talking about Palomar or Guadalupe?

Yea, I meant to ask that question also. :?:

G canyon

BAJACAT - 1-12-2006 at 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John M
Bajacat, did you have reservations and was there no problem with them? Recall Ken had some difficulties and had to relocate to another camp site I think.

What did they charge you to camp? Being there on Friday nite and Saturday nite - was it a bit crowded?

Palomar sounds very interesting spot to visit. Good report.

John M

John no problem what so ever, there where only a hand full of camps occupied we had the canyon to our selfs, whe pay $170 for three cars for the weekend exellent weather.. :yes:

Bajataco

BAJACAT - 1-12-2006 at 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajataco

Quote:

Originally posted by jide
Bajacat, when you mention:"Altitud 1725 FT The next day when to see the other camps on the east side of the stream"

are you talking about Palomar or Guadalupe?

Yea, I meant to ask that question also. :?:

I was talking about Palomar canyon it sits higher that G- canyon but it looks almost the same the wather comes out on the side of the hill in numerous spots..

[Edited on 11-26-2008 by BAJACAT]

Palomar hot pool.JPG - 48kB

No $

BAJACAT - 1-12-2006 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajataco
WOW - cool post. Thanks for helping with the pics DK.

I am totally amped up to see that pool full of water! When we had visited that spot in 2000, the water line coming from the hot spring was all busted up and the pool was dry. During that visit, we backpacked into the canyon and spend the night camped amidst the boulders and palms. Nobody was there, but there was an old cowboys casita at the big palm grove. It was vacant, but I could tell it was a stop-over because the cowboys had hung provisions from the rafters on the porch (safe from vermin). So is this a developed campground now? Is there a fee to use the hot tub? Any idea what the water temp in the tub was? It seemed to me like the water had to travel a good distance and there might not be enough volume flowing to keep that much water "hot". Maybe warm though. A very idyllic setting, but it was a bummer to see the old spring house and source trammeled by cattle and the source was a mucky mess of cow pies. Is it still like that? Did you hike further up the canyon, past the spring? Sorry for all of the questions - but it's not too often I come across someone who has been back up in there.

Very cool pics of your Dodge crossing the rock garden by the way!

Bajataco the place is abandon they dont charge anything the only problem thats private properity I meet the people that runs the cattle ranch and they let me go inside and explore with only one condition to closed the gates as I went throught, the old house is till there . they fix the water line that feeds the pool if this place gets developed is going to make a must destination went traveling the salada the only problem is the time to get there. the water is about 80* I hope I answer all your questions Bajataco... :lol:

[Edited on 11-26-2008 by BAJACAT]

DK

BAJACAT - 1-12-2006 at 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT

Quote:

Originally posted by jide
Thanks for the report... any pics?

I still can figure out Jide I will e-mail the pictures to David K to see If he can post them for me.

I am using the Neal Johns method with great success... Using 'Paint' then sketch & skew... 30% on the first two (over 800KB) and 25% on the third (it was over 1 MB in size) to reduce to under 50 KB for Nomad. Then click 'Save as', add a -R to the file name (for Reduced), or whatever you like... and you will have both the original and reduced for Nomad photos in your file.

See the post entitled 'Essay Question' by Packoderm on the General board (use search) for more details on reducing photos, including a better explanation than the one I just typed.

But, no fear as I am happy to assist any Nomad with posting their photos! My email is info*at*vivabaja.com

Thanks David I will try again.

[Edited on 8-28-2008 by BAJACAT]

Palomar palms.JPG - 47kB

el palomar

BAJACAT - 1-12-2006 at 11:07 PM

[Edited on 8-28-2008 by BAJACAT]

Palomar view end of the rd.JPG - 44kB

The road to get there!

BAJACAT - 1-12-2006 at 11:13 PM

[Edited on 8-28-2008 by BAJACAT]

Arroyo x.JPG - 47kB

Last picture

BAJACAT - 1-12-2006 at 11:18 PM

[Edited on 8-28-2008 by BAJACAT]

Bld at palomar.JPG - 49kB

bajataco - 1-17-2006 at 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
I hope I answer all your questions Bajataco... :lol:

YES! Thank you so much. Great info and great pics.

Pappy Jon - 1-22-2006 at 09:21 AM

I'm confused. I visited Palomar in 1987, then a reunion trip in 1997. We are planning another reunion trip in 2007, but it sounds like this canyon is now improved. Camping? We always just found a flat spot between the chollas. Hot springs? The only "improved" spring was a scummy bathtub about a mile up from a nice casa (can't find the pic in the file). In 1987 the road was rough, in 1997 it had been graded to the casa and was a much easier entry. When we hiked the canyon in 1987 there were reminants of an old road past the casa, but clearly blown out and not passable.

Pictures

mcgyver - 1-22-2006 at 09:58 AM

I use Picasa (free from Goggle) to reduce pictures. Best picture software I have ever used and I have xxxxPRO at $800, wotthless compared to Picassa.

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT

palomar canyon

BAJACAT - 1-22-2006 at 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pappy Jon
I'm confused. I visited Palomar in 1987, then a reunion trip in 1997. We are planning another reunion trip in 2007, but it sounds like this canyon is now improved. Camping? We always just found a flat spot between the chollas. Hot springs? The only "improved" spring was a scummy bathtub about a mile up from a nice casa (can't find the pic in the file). In 1987 the road was rough, in 1997 it had been graded to the casa and was a much easier entry. When we hiked the canyon in 1987 there were reminants of an old road past the casa, but clearly blown out and not passable.

The road still is rough i recomend veicles with alot of clearense, most of the road is driveable untill you come to the arroyo crossings, the house is abandoned, the road goes all the way to the canyon, thats where it ends . the only problem you are going to end up with scraches from all the overgrown bushes. the bathtub still there now you can drive all the way untill you reach it that will be the end of the road still is fun just to get there and also an isolated place to go and just relax away from anything.

Pappy Jon - 1-23-2006 at 08:55 PM

That is not it. I literally mean a BATHTUB. From the looks of the pic the bathtub I remember is further up the canyon. Now I gotta go back.

[Edited on 1-24-2006 by Pappy Jon]

Bathtub in palomar ?

BAJACAT - 1-23-2006 at 11:47 PM

Thanks for clearing that up DK I thought he was talking about the hottub :tumble:

so you know english is may second language i only have 3 years of schooling in the usa, therefore all my bad spelling shows all the time, but Im still learning. the only thing that whe found was a old jacuzzi about 50 ft upstream from this hottub, that's connected by the same water source.. I didn't hike up the canyon maybe the tub still there ... :?:

David K - 1-24-2006 at 12:50 AM

Your English is far better than my Spanish amigo! Good job!!

Pappy Jon - 1-26-2006 at 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
Thanks for clearing that up DK I thought he was talking about the hottub :tumble:

Sure wish I could find my pics.

[Edited on 1-27-2006 by Pappy Jon]

BAJACAT - 8-27-2008 at 10:57 PM

Lost pix from Palomar canyon

[Edited on 8-28-2008 by BAJACAT]

Vero in Palomar.JPG - 41kB

BAJACAT - 8-27-2008 at 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Great shot of cholla (jumping cactus) at work!

Looks like you got it Bajacat... Good job!

BAJACAT - 8-27-2008 at 11:25 PM

I bump it to reset the pix,some how they got deleted.

TMW - 8-28-2008 at 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Great shot of cholla (jumping cactus) at work!

Looks like you got it Bajacat... Good job!

Good thing someone was there to help remove them. They give a real meaning to pain in the back.

BAJACAT - 8-28-2008 at 08:24 PM

Tw, I was the the someone that help remove them,She is a friend of the family almost like my cousin,thats what I toll my wife so she wouldn't complain, when I help her..

ssrnoola - 10-22-2008 at 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
Hi Nomads, just got my cp fix from a terrible crash. Just in time to let you guys know about my trip Originally to Guadalupe-C but end up esxploring el Palomar canyon. Whe cross the border in tecate friday, the 6 about 9:30. stop to get somethig to eat end up eating hamburgers in tecate what a irony hamburgers in mexico o well, got to the laguna exit about 10:20 am road is in pretty go shape, got to the canyon around 10:40 am due to the peolple in my caravan did'nt fell good doing 80 ml/hr on the Salada so we had to slow down.stay in Arturos El Sol camp. perfect weather 76* degress., next day got ready and took off to explore el palomar canyon 30 miles down the road. road condition is ok up to the 24 mile marker then in whinds to the west to the top of the canyon thats when you start crossing sand washes this is the entrance to el palomar canyon ( 31 56' 39" N 115 40' 89" W ) this is where the bad road starts. this canyon is just 4 miles up the stream going throught a palm fill oasis at the end is a bathing pool just like the ones in GC this is the end of the road ( 31 56' 25" N 115 45' 06" ). Altitud 1725 FT The next day when to see the other camps on the east side of the stream, across from Arturo walking around the camps I meet the original owner of GC Don Jose Loya espinoza ( according to them they are related to the espinozas of el Rosario.) He told me that the owner of Arturos side was Jose Loya Murillo wich die in 1987, but the all the canyon belongs to him, he sold the other side to Jose Loya Murillo Arturos Dad. Afther all, it was a nice trip putting a side that whe run out of paper plates and had to recycle old ones. another great trip to GC like always whe enjoy being there. looking foward to go back soon...

David K - 10-23-2008 at 08:41 AM

ssrnoola, welcome to Nomad... please say something!

BAJACAT - 1-2-2013 at 10:49 PM

Bump,picture of my truck in the arroyo is in page one in this thread...

David K - 1-2-2013 at 11:15 PM

Here are 2 maps and 2 'zooms in' on the canyon...

First, the now reported out-of-print, 2009 Baja CA Almanac (if this is a tease tio get you to buy one, great) page, followed by a zoom in on the canyon area.

Next, the long out-of-print 2003 Baja CA Almanac page, then a zoom in on the Palomar Canyon area. Note that the 2003 and earlier Almanac were of higher detail/ bigger scale than the 2009... so older is still good to get, if you can!

That runway is by the general's abandoned hunting lodge at the entrance to Santa Isabel Canyon.

David K - 1-2-2013 at 11:18 PM

Glad BajaCat bumped up the thread... moving maps and photo of it here:

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
actually this place is 30 miles south of Guadalupe canyon..Its call Palomar canyon, with hot springs, but the water is nos as hot as Guadalupe Canyon.'near this place is a trail that takes you from Laguna salada to Laguna Hanson...

10 years later, in Erle Stanley Gardner's book (1968) the road in (and I recall BajaCat has a photo of this road with his Dodge on it):

Neal Johns - 1-3-2013 at 02:57 PM

Here we are in 2001 crossing the canyon between the house and pool.

xmasPalomarWorkers (Copy).jpg - 46kB

Barry A. - 1-3-2013 at 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Glad BajaCat bumped up the thread... moving maps and photo of it here:

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.

Quote:

In 1958 I drove up Palomar Canyon in a 2-wheel drive ton and a half flatbed truck full of Sierra Club'ers & their camp gear to a Rancho in a huge palm grove well up the canyon-----on a really good dirt road---------that road later washed out, and I was never able to return to that Rancho tho I tried several times over the later years.

Palomar Canyon is a jewel, and huge!!!

Barry

You know, David, after looking at your maps, I am thinking that my memory might be failing me on this one------referring back to my post about the 1958 trip, perhaps it was Santa Isabel Canyon that we went up that trip--------I know I have camped several times in each of those canyons, but now I am thinking the "Sierra club trip" that I drove the flat-bed truck up a canyon might have been Santa Isabel. (that was a long time ago)

Barry

10 years later, in Erle Stanley Gardner's book (1968) the road in (and I recall BajaCat has a photo of this road with his Dodge on it):

David K - 1-3-2013 at 06:38 PM

Barry... I don't see any added text by you in the quote bump above? Do you think you were in Palomar or Santa Isabel?

Barry A. - 1-3-2013 at 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Barry... I don't see any added text by you in the quote bump above? Do you think you were in Palomar or Santa Isabel?

Not sure, David, but I think Santa Isabel after seeing your maps. See my comments added to your posting above with the ancient picture in it within the "quote" box.

Barry

David K - 1-4-2013 at 12:58 AM

Any photos of the general's villa?

Neal Johns - 1-4-2013 at 12:01 PM

The Pool House, DK.

Isabel pool.jpg - 34kB

David K - 1-4-2013 at 12:02 PM

Very cool... so remote, too!

Ken Cooke - 11-7-2013 at 10:21 PM

There will be a group of Jeeps heading to this rocky destination in a few weeks. I will provide an updated report on the locale and road conditions. Can't wait! :bounce:

Ken Cooke - 10-31-2017 at 09:19 PM

The latest Intel is that the road to Palomar is impassable. A modified Willy's flatfender could not negotiate the boulders in January. These may have been moved to accommodate 4 wheel vehicles, but I have not heard if this has happened, yet.

David K - 10-31-2017 at 10:43 PM

Same with Matomí, more rain, more boulders exposed. Pappy Jon was just in there again and it got even worse than what he and I saw last March.
If our new Nomad amigo has a D9 or some nice dozer, he can move rocks or cover them with sand so we 4x4s can get in and camp.

Mexitron - 11-1-2017 at 05:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by David K

Here are 2 maps and 2 'zooms in' on the canyon...

First, the now reported out-of-print, 2009 Baja CA Almanac (if this is a tease tio get you to buy one, great) page, followed by a zoom in on the canyon area.

Next, the long out-of-print 2003 Baja CA Almanac page, then a zoom in on the Palomar Canyon area. Note that the 2003 and earlier Almanac were of higher detail/ bigger scale than the 2009... so older is still good to get, if you can!

That runway is by the general's abandoned hunting lodge at the entrance to Santa Isabel Canyon.

About 20 years we drove a road/trail that went from Hwy 5 west and ended up joining the road into Palomar, was wondering if that still exists or is fenced off now. Quite an enjoyable drive. It crossed Palomar where the canyon had become an enormous cut through eons of accumulated sandy alluvium on the edge of the salada area, can just imagine the storms that have gouged all that out. Always amazed to see old palm trunks way out in the salada from those storms.

David K - 11-14-2017 at 11:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Mexitron

I have not heard of any change to its passability. PaulW is maybe more in tune to it? This is the road that heads west from the sand dune area, correct (signed for Ejido Saldaña)?

If yes, I traveled it many years ago to get to Guadalupe Canyon from San Felipe and it was pretty bad where it crossed the hills from near Laguna Salada to Cohabuzo Jcn. (deep silt)... Here is my mileage note map showing it and the way up to Hwy. 3 via Mano Canyon, I did a couple years later:

PaulW - 11-14-2017 at 02:15 PM

Find David's road above. You will find lots of changes, but the route follows the general path above. Start at Hwy close to Km 87 (via the barrow pit from the new road) or 77 (with the sign and a less friendly road). Both go to Saldana #2 Then the road turns northerly. The route these days stays quite a bit further east due to rancher fencing.

TMW - 11-15-2017 at 11:17 AM

SCORE uses the route for both the Baja 500 and 1000 races as does CODE. The thing to remember is that the area on David's map above that says Laguna is often muddy. Be very careful crossing it. Rule of thumb is to stay as far to the west as you can.