BajaNomad

What is this creature???

Marie-Rose - 1-17-2006 at 10:12 PM

I am going to try and attach this image (so far have not had much luck!!)
Frizkie found it while sweeping around the fifth wheel. It is green, about 3 inches long.
Caterpillar type body with a forked tail. Funny looking head with 2 spikes. At one point
looked like it was "spitting" clear liquid. Did not flipp the forked tail in defence (like a scorpion) Anybody know what it is?

Marie-Rose - 1-17-2006 at 10:13 PM

Oops ... didn't work!!!! To tired to try again!! Will try tomorrow!!!!

Natalie Ann - 1-17-2006 at 10:15 PM

Marie-Rose, if you see Barbie again please tell her I said hi and hope to see her about a month. Gracias.

David K - 1-17-2006 at 11:23 PM

Marie-Rose... sounds like a water scorpion... Please email me the photo and I will post here for you! info*at*vivabaja.com or my 'baja4me' email if you have it.

If you do a Google 'Image' search

neilm - 1-18-2006 at 03:28 PM

for water scorpion; you'll find pages and pages of pics...

kinda cool

Neil

Speaking of water scorpions...

vgabndo - 1-18-2006 at 04:15 PM

Did you know that there is a scorpion native to Baja California that lives on beaches and can remain under salt water for 40 or more minutes at a time?

Dave - 1-18-2006 at 07:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Did you know that there is a scorpion native to Baja California that lives on beaches and can remain under salt water for 40 or more minutes at a time?


Well, so much for drowning the little sumb-tches.

bajaguy - 1-18-2006 at 08:24 PM

Has anyone tried soaking them in Pacifico or a margarita for the 40 minute time limit???

jide - 1-18-2006 at 09:05 PM

hey vgabndo
I found this one at night, a few feet from the water at ensenada San Juanico , is this what you're talking about?

[Edited on 1-19-2006 by jide]

David K - 1-19-2006 at 08:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by vgabndo
Did you know that there is a scorpion native to Baja California that lives on beaches and can remain under salt water for 40 or more minutes at a time?


When Mike Humfreville showed us (in the Viva Baja van, 2001) the location of their hut at Las Cuevitas (north of La Gringa, L.A. Bay)... we saw a small scorpion right near the sea edge, on the rocky beach.

When Jide and I were walking back out of Ca?on el Cajon (Apr., 2004) we saw dozens of 'water scorpions' where the stream disappeared into the desert sand... I had never seen them before... ugly guys!

It is really tough for even the experts to identify the many different scorpions.

vgabndo - 1-19-2006 at 05:35 PM

The late Gary Polis, whom many will remember lost his life underestimating the sudden weather changes in the BOLA, was probably the Baja master.

A lot of his work was in studying the density of scorpions. He published the names of several scorpions who inhabit the inter-tidal zone.

Opistophthalmus litoralis
Centruroides exilicauda
Mesobuthus martensi
Euscorpius carpathicus
Vaejovis littoralis


Vaejovis, however, was found to be exceptionally dense. Up to a dozen examples per square meter were observed.

Intrestingly, even though many scorpions can survive up to twelve hours under water, the non-tidal zone critters seem to be able to do it as well as their aquatic cousins.

I suspect that the scorpion pictured above is one of the Hadrurus's. they get their name from their very thick tail. There are many different types. Then again he could be an Anuroctonus phaiodactylus named for his "dusky fingers".


Here's some more of interest.

http://www.science.marshall.edu/fet/euscorpius/Scorpion%20Sy...

Maybe if I live to be 150 I'll get a chance to understand these amazing critters more thoroughly.

[Edited on 1-20-2006 by vgabndo]

Marie-Rose - 1-19-2006 at 05:54 PM

I've sent the pics to David. Waterscorpion is not what it is. This little guy is green and more like a caterpillar body. Unfortunately the picture does not show the forked tail.

David K - 1-19-2006 at 06:25 PM

The first of two photos...

David K - 1-19-2006 at 06:27 PM

The second photo... these both were pre-reduced in size.

bugdude - 1-19-2006 at 06:40 PM

Looks like some type of lepidopterus larva by the three sets of pro-legs and drab color (probably a moth species). The clear liquid it regurgitated is often a defense mechanism. Best I can do with the photos. Can't figure out the "appendage" on the end though? The larva will not attain "true" legs until metamorphosis; in this case egg>larva>pupa>adult = complete lifecyle.

FYI: An ancient species of water scorpion, a six-legged creature called Hibbertopterus, was about 5 feet long and 3 feet wide, and died out about 250 million years ago. This suggests that our earliest land-walking ancestors were giant, slow moving water scorpions at the time they left their aquatic environments to colonize the land.



[Edited on 01/01/06 by bugdude]

Marie-Rose - 1-19-2006 at 06:57 PM

It was aprox. 1.5- 2 inches long and the body was not rounded ... definitely caterpillar shape. It did not have legs that I could count!! (I think!!!)

[Edited on 2006-1-20 by Marie-Rose]

HotSchott - 1-21-2006 at 07:20 AM

Early pupating stage of the lime green chupa cabra. Usually found in the decaying skulls of their hosts. Don't touch the forky thing that is where the venom is.

Marie-Rose - 1-21-2006 at 01:17 PM

I'm not finding anything on "chupa cabra" when I google it. Any more pics or info??
Is it dangerous?

[Edited on 2006-1-21 by Marie-Rose]

jide - 1-21-2006 at 02:14 PM

If you don't own sheep, I wouldn't worry about it.

Now if you're dealing with this, it gets a little messier

Marie-rose

vgabndo - 1-21-2006 at 03:32 PM

Does your leg feel like it's getting longer?:lol:

See: Below

http://skepdic.com/chupa.html

You didn't find it in Google 'cause it was not spelled correctly.

:bounce::bounce:

[Edited on 1-21-2006 by vgabndo]

Marie-Rose - 1-21-2006 at 04:07 PM

Got me!!!:lol::P Damn I hate it when that happens!!

I still would really like to know what that little guy was/is. He's roaming around somewhere on the property!!

Don Alley - 1-21-2006 at 06:29 PM

I since had surgery on this hand.

Dave - 1-21-2006 at 07:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marie-Rose
I still would really like to know what that little guy was/is. He's roaming around somewhere on the property!!


Yeah, probably in your bedcovers. ;)

You let it go???

Next time, kill it! It could be harmless but why take a chance?

bugdude - 1-22-2006 at 08:04 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Marie-Rose
I still would really like to know what that little guy was/is. He's roaming around somewhere on the property!!


As I posted earlier and with close to 30 years experience as a field entomologist, it looks like a lepidopterus larva (Insect Order: Lepidoptera = butterflies and moths) by the three sets of pro-legs and drab (cryptic) color. I would bet dollars to donuts that it is probably a HARMLESS moth species. If you want a definitive answer, post better photos.

Chupa-cabras and water scorpions? I don't think so, but an entertaining notion. ;D

Originally posted by Dave
Next time, kill it! It could be harmless but why take a chance?


Entomophobia rears it's ugly head. :no:



[Edited on 01/01/06 by bugdude]

bajajudy - 1-22-2006 at 10:12 AM

Just saw this on El Universal front page

Monarchs:

Al G - 1-22-2006 at 09:34 PM

"An ancient species of water scorpion, a six-legged creature called Hibbertopterus, was about 5 feet long and 3 feet wide, and died out about 250 million years ago."
Whoa! Not gonna miss that guy. To big for a teQulia worm anyway.:lol:

marv sherrill - 1-23-2006 at 05:40 PM

I was very intrigued by the unknown creature and looked through all of my resources - finallly I called my ex-student who teaches entomology at Cal State Fullerton - Originally he went for a sphinx moth larvae as did Bugdude, but the forked tail indicates a large syrphid fly larvae that is in this area and feeds on cactus - he is very interested in the specimen alive or dead - preserve in 50% isopropyl alcohol or freeze it - hope that sdhed some light on it - Marv

bugdude - 1-23-2006 at 06:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by marv sherrill
The forked tail indicates a large syrphid fly larvae that is in this area and feeds on cactus.


I wasn't really satisfied with that suggestion so I emailed the photo to a colleague at the University of California, Riverside, Department of Entomology, and his assessment was a larva of a Hackberry Butterfly (photo[s] below) or Tawny Emperor (genus Asterocampa). Larvae in the subfamily Apaturinae frequently have pointy head projections like that.


[Edited on 01/01/06 by bugdude]

Marie-Rose - 1-23-2006 at 08:39 PM

I will definitely keep my eyes open for him/her and if I spot him I will keep him for better "show and tell". Both Frizkie and I are reluctant to kill anything for no reason but I could do it for science...or if I thought he might come back to haunt me!!!! Managed to get the scorpion at the door step without too much grief!:wow:

[Edited on 2006-1-24 by Marie-Rose]

bugdude - 1-23-2006 at 10:50 PM

Marie-Rose:

I like your philosophy. BRAVO!

bugdude - 1-24-2006 at 07:14 PM

Larva of a Hackberry Butterfly or Tawny Emperor (genus Asterocampa) - see comments in post above.

[Edited on 01/01/06 by bugdude]

Marie-Rose - 1-24-2006 at 09:01 PM

That is definitely what the tail looked like Bajadude!!! His head was really different though
and the body seemed to be "smoother" looking. The color is that same, without the white.:yes:
Butterflies I can never get enough off!!

[Edited on 2006-1-25 by Marie-Rose]

[Edited on 2006-1-25 by Marie-Rose]

Marie-Rose:

bugdude - 1-25-2006 at 10:57 AM

Here is another photo of a Hackberry Butterfly larva:


[Edited on 01/01/06 by bugdude]

marv sherrill - 1-25-2006 at 04:18 PM

Good job - I think you've got it! That last photo looks great - I like the bicycle helmet head!!

Marie-Rose - 1-25-2006 at 05:44 PM

YES!!!!
:bounce::bounce:

That is it!!!! Frizkie never checks bajanomads while on the road but I will get her to check it out!! Thanks guys!!! (I'm so glad we set him loose!!)

frizkie - 1-26-2006 at 01:30 PM

YUP!! That is it alright!!! Bajadude you got it!! Thanks for your input.

I had never seen a caterpillar with a bike helmet on before so he kinda caught my eye...crazy little guy!! :yes:

frizkie - 1-26-2006 at 01:31 PM

NATALIE!!!

I will be looking forward to seeing you soon. Our last visit was far too short.

Marie-Rose, frizkie:

bugdude - 1-26-2006 at 02:32 PM

De nada, con gusto.

You didn't mention where you encountered the larva (i.e., Baja or Canada).

There is one species of Hackberry Butterfly that occurs in B.C.S.: Asterocampa leilia.

This link will fill you in on the biology, ecology and distribution of this species including another photo of the adult - if you are curious:

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/bflyusa/mx/42...

I highly recommend the Butterflies of North America website (which includes northern Mexico and Baja California) for questions on other butterflies you might encounter:

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/bflyusa/bflyu...

?Buena suerte!


[Edited on 01/01/06 by bugdude]

Marie-Rose - 1-26-2006 at 03:29 PM

We were in Todos Santos when our paths met! Thanks for the references!!