BajaNomad - Fewer migrating whales arrive in Mexican lagoons (corrected)

Fewer migrating whales arrive in Mexican lagoons (corrected)

BajaNews - 2-9-2006 at 07:41 PM

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=scienceN...

Feb 10, 2006
By Frank Jack Daniel

SAN IGNACIO, Mexico (Reuters) - The number of gray whales making a yearly migration from the icy North Pacific to breed in Mexico's warm lagoons has dropped this year, scientists say, possibly because of changing weather patterns.

Gray whale researcher William Megill said food shortages in the whales' feeding grounds near Canada and Alaska mean that some of the thousands who make the annual 5,000-mile journey have departed late or even stayed behind this year.

Other researchers said on Thursday that varying sea temperatures in the Bering Sea could be contributing to changes in migration patterns.

Megill, a lecturer at Britain's Bath University, warned those that made the trip may be undernourished and said he feared many could die from lack of energy on their return trip north later in the year.

"We saw in British Columbia this year there was nothing to eat until well into September," he told Reuters at San Ignacio lagoon on Mexico's Baja California peninsula. "I wouldn't be surprised to see carcasses up and down the coast, because they didn't have enough food."

According to Megill's latest census, around 90 whales had made it to San Ignacio by February, down by about a half compared to the same month in 2005.

Every year thousands of gray whales spend several months swimming from their northern feeding grounds to warm lagoons with a high salt content along Mexico's Baja California peninsula.

Once there, pregnant whales give birth to half-tonne calves, teach their young to swim in the buoyant salty waters, look for partners and mate.

Whale-watching in the lagoons is a popular tourist attraction. Gray whales in the lagoons sometimes approach visitors' boats and let humans touch them.

Last week, dozens of the mammals -- which can grow 50 feet long and weigh up to 40 tonnes -- swam near the surface with new-born calves, while others flipped their forked tales out of the water in mating rituals.

The whales, which were removed from the U.S. endangered species list in 1994, arrive in the lagoons between December and February and start their return journey in April.

Research in traditional feeding grounds in the northern Bering Sea between Alaska and Siberia shows an abrupt rise in temperatures there since 2000, and a decline in the worm and shrimp colonies that nourish the whales.

Sue Moore, head oceanographer at the University of Washington in the United States, said the whales appeared to be adapting to changing environmental conditions in the North by feeding in new areas and heading South later in the year.

But she did not believe the whales faced greater challenges this year than in other years.

"I do not think they are suffering starvation at this point -- gray whales are very resilient and can feed on a variety of prey all along their migration route," she said.

Between 1999 and 2000, hundreds of gray whales washed up along the West coast of the United States and Canada, after they apparently suffered food shortages as a result of climatic changes related to the El Nino phenomenon.

Recent changes in weather patterns in the North Atlantic are harder to explain, say researchers at the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, since El Nino had little effect in 2005.

[Edited on 2-10-2006 by BajaNews]

Fewer whales??

Pompano - 2-10-2006 at 08:14 AM

Hmmm...that's odd. We went fishing yesterday..(Feb 9th 2006.) and saw about 15 whales from Pt. Conception to Pt. Teresa near Ille del Fonso.

Here is poor photo of one. One thing we noted was that the whales were extremely wary and sounded quickly as we approached from a distance. Something they have never done is the past. They could have had young with them which would account for this rare attitude.

There are certainaly more whales this season than last.

Bruce R Leech - 2-10-2006 at 08:30 AM

I think that as long as people keep harassing them in there formerly isolated berthing waters there will be fewer and fewer return. also you will see more and more acts of aggressive behavior by the gray whales.

If you people really care about the whales then leave them alone. if you see them while out in the open sea like Pompano that is OK but to invade there isolated berthing waters is way to intrusive. why do you think they go to those locations?

elgatoloco - 2-10-2006 at 09:30 AM

Pompano

Which kind of whale in your photo?

Bruce

Have you ever been to out to the lagoons to see the whales in a panga?

It's educational and inspirational.

The only way you can get close is if they come to you.

The locals get some income and the whole thing is done in a very controlled way with limitations on how many boats on the water at a time and how close the operator's can get.

You should give it a try. :smug:

elizabeth - 2-10-2006 at 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco

Bruce

Have you ever been to out to the lagoons to see the whales in a panga?

It's educational and inspirational.

The only way you can get close is if they come to you.

The locals get some income and the whole thing is done in a very controlled way with limitations on how many boats on the water at a time and how close the operator's can get.

You should give it a try. :smug:

It is educational and inspirational; however, there are way too many panga captains who chase and circle the whales. This is not exactly like them deciding to come to you.

[Edited on 2-10-2006 by elizabeth]

Bruce R Leech - 2-10-2006 at 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco
Pompano

Which kind of whale in your photo?

Bruce

Have you ever been to out to the lagoons to see the whales in a panga?

It's educational and inspirational.

The only way you can get close is if they come to you.

The locals get some income and the whole thing is done in a very controlled way with limitations on how many boats on the water at a time and how close the operator's can get.

You should give it a try. :smug:

don't you think that if that is what they wanted they would go to San Francisco Bay or something like that.

they want to be alone. leave them alone. when they come to the boat maybe they are asking you politely to leave.

Pompano - 2-10-2006 at 04:31 PM

elgatoloco...those we saw yesterday were all finback whales. Estimated lengths from 30-45ft. We conservatively estimated seeing 15 during our fishing trip. We never get too close, bother them in any way whatsoever, and have chased down some boats who did...kids on a jetski.

Many times in the past whales have approached us for some unknown reason...curiousity perhaps?...or were they jealous of my fishing prowness!! I have whale stories to tell but not here and now....I believe that is another thread somewhere.

elgatoloco - 2-10-2006 at 04:53 PM

Bruce

I take it that you have not actually been out yet.

It's too cold in San Francisco in February, for mating or boating.

When we visited San Ignacio lagoon we drove around in a panga for an hour and never got within 100 yards of a whale, although we could see them everywhere around us, mostly mothers with newborns. It was still great to see these magnificent creatures in their element. As we sat motionless in the panga, motor idling, all of a sudden from the depths appeared a very large female with a baby in tow. She was so peeed off that we were bugging her that she spent the next thirty minutes alternately floating on her back under us with both flippers out of the water, one either side of the boat so close you could touch them (although, as instructed we did not). When she tired of that she pushed, yes pushed her baby over to us so it could get a good look at the pesky people who were bugging them and it could feel the touch of the nasty tourist. Yep those are some peeed off whales. It?s a shame I could not realize that they just wanted us the hell out of there.
See you at the zoo. :smug:

elgatoloco - 2-10-2006 at 04:57 PM

Pompano

I would love to hear some of your whale stories someday. I'll bring the beer. :biggrin:

When we have been in kayaks the only whales that don't go the other direction when they see us are the gray whales, the finbacks and humpbacks seem to be shy and will head the other way. Always great to see them in the wild.

Debra - 2-10-2006 at 05:03 PM

I have to say, I was also one of those people that said "leave them alone" until I also went out and had the same experience that "elgotoloco" had.....the Mom chashed US and pushed her baby toward us, the baby stayed and teased, begging for us to pet him/her for over an hour while the mom stayed in the background and watched. Finally Mom gave a flip/flap and off went the baby. Awesome experience!

elgatoloco - 2-10-2006 at 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elizabeth
[

It is educational and inspirational; however, there are way too many panga captains who chase and circle the whales. This is not exactly like them deciding to come to you.

[Edited on 2-10-2006 by elizabeth]

That has not been our experience to date. I have heard that some drivers are more aggressive than others. We have been out at Scammons five times and San Ignacio once. If I were in a boat that was harassing whales I would complain to management and I would NOT tip.

Bruce R Leech - 2-10-2006 at 05:13 PM

the way I watch when I go is from shore with a telescope or camera with a big lens. nature is always more beautiful with out human intervention.

I have seen boat harassing and actually purposely hitting the whales. one time I saw some people shutting them with paint ball guns. and many other atrocity's.

the thing is if you like it or if they like it doesn't mater. it is not natural for them to have human intervention in this the most privet of there times. and if they get used to playing with all the boats then the next time they see a whaling ship they will swim to it rather than swimming away.

David K - 2-10-2006 at 06:59 PM

Gee Bruce, the only boat operators on the lagoon are those certified. So, you actually saw a certified whale watching panga operator allow his passengers to shoot the whales with paint balls???????

Please...

Did you report this to proper authorites???

Santiago - 2-10-2006 at 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco

It's too cold in San Francisco in February, for mating....

Crazycat: this is gonna be a problem - I've booked a fancy hotel there this coming Tuesday (2/14) with that very thing in mind. She-who-must-be-obeyed is gonna be p.o.'ed. :no:

Don Alley - 2-10-2006 at 08:28 PM

Yes, whale watching is bad.

It runs counter to everything I learned about wildlife in over 30 years in Montana...elk, bear buffalo moose...

DO NOT APPROACH THE WILDLIFE!

But last winter I ended up on a panga at Lopez Mateos on a whale watching trip, approaching and petting whales.

BOY WAS IT FUN!

Now I am addicted and will go again next week.

Yes, crime is a slippery slope, as Bruce pointed out in another thread. First, collecting seashells. Then, clamming, and whale watching...smuggling boxes of Cherrios and Cherry Coke across the border...grand theft auto may be in the cards next.

abreojos - 2-10-2006 at 08:33 PM

If you want to avoid the crowds and encounter the whales at their friendliest, March & April are the best months at San Ignacio. I have watched the last mom and bably leave the middle of May. They all pass my property on the way back. You can see the majority of them pass from the middle of February until the middle of March, mas o menos.

Pompano - 2-10-2006 at 08:42 PM

Hey...I have a photo of a large pale whale spouting just off our patio. Now if I can just find that darn thing..??

Bruce R Leech - 2-10-2006 at 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Gee Bruce, the only boat operators on the lagoon are those certified. So, you actually saw a certified whale watching panga operator allow his passengers to shoot the whales with paint balls???????

Please...

Did you report this to proper authorites???

so are you saying that I'm lying or what is the reason for your negative comments David

this really is not like you David I hope I'm not going to be your new jrbaja

[Edited on 2-11-2006 by Bruce R Leech]

awesome thread...

eetdrt88 - 2-10-2006 at 09:23 PM

this is a good debate,I see both sides as I have always wanted to go out on one of these chartered pangas to get up close to these whales and actually once on a kayak at Calamajue I was able to get fairly close to a whale...but I definitely see where Bruce is coming from that maybe all this human intrusion into their breeding grounds may not be such a great idea...I would like to think that most of the panga operators that take people out to see the whales are very respectful of these creatures and the ones Bruce mentioned are the exception to the rule

bajajudy - 2-11-2006 at 07:31 AM

Pompano
Dont you dare!
I will tell Felipa. :yes:

Don Jorge - 2-11-2006 at 08:03 AM

Lat week we saw lots of finbacks south of Loreto in beautiful conditions. No wind for 9 days in February? That is unreal.

Driving home super bowl Sunday I think I saw that whale spouting in the waters of Coyote bay.

Throughout Conception I also saw lots of whales in bermuda shorts who apparently have evolved into wading motor home dwelling creatures with very white skin. What a zoo!

Bruce R Leech - 2-11-2006 at 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
one time I saw some people shutting them with paint ball guns. and many other atrocity's.

Context is everything. For all we know, those were government scientists marking the whales for research/preservation purposes. :lol:

Did you by chance do any followup on that event?

Saludos-- Larry

Maybe they were government scientists or green peace or something else I don't know but they were quit drunk and almost sunk there boat twice. It doesn't make it right just because they have a title

the panga captains have rules that they are supposed to fallow but this is Mexico and you know how that gos. one rule that they brake every day is to not get close to the whales. most of the panga captains think that they will get better tips if they get close enough for the people to touch the whales. most of them will do what you request for a tip. I know a couple of the panga captains and I have herd some terrible stories right from them.

[Edited on 2-11-2006 by Bruce R Leech]

Thar she blows!

Pompano - 2-11-2006 at 09:10 AM

Many faraway spouts like this one were a welcome sight here at Pt. Conception just a couple days ago. Sorry..the photo is poor...look center screen.

Note: My Nikon Coopix 4300 digital camera has taken a beating from saltwater, rough handling, etc. I have meaning to invest in a good digital camera with the best photo quality zoom when back stateside. Any more recommendations on such a camera from you Nomad picture hounds would be helpful.

Bob and Susan - 2-11-2006 at 09:41 AM

is that your dog on the front fishing with you?

bajajudy - 2-11-2006 at 09:47 AM

Sorry Pompano, when you said pale whale spouting, I thought that you meant the nalgas con pedo shot you have....please not that one!

Fishing dogs....

Pompano - 2-11-2006 at 09:53 AM

No, Bob y Susan...

I cotton to Labs and Chessies. These are German Shorthairs and belong to my fishing partner, Two Dogs...(wonder who gave him that name..hmmm?) Named Chile and Pepper, they love to go along fishing..or just anywhere. Pepper especially loves to hang out over the bow and keep a watch for anything fishy. That dog will swim forever after baitfish in close to shore. Unusual for a shorthair to love the water so much...must be half-Lab! Damn good guides and whale spotters.

The Pale Whale Spout!

Pompano - 2-11-2006 at 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy
Sorry Pompano, when you said pale whale spouting, I thought that you meant the nalgas con pedo shot you have....please not that one!

Arrgh! Yup...you were right on, bajajudy. You know how much I yearn to post that pic again, but I dare not. Felipa has laid down the law.

Whales

tehag - 2-11-2006 at 08:24 PM

Having some trouble digesting the outcry over whale pestering from persons who are well known to yank other animals around by the lips before slaying them and shooting still others with shotguns and rifles.

Bruce R Leech - 2-11-2006 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tehag
Having some trouble digesting the outcry over whale pestering from persons who are well known to yank other animals around by the lips before slaying them and shooting still others with shotguns and rifles.

who is that????? :?:

Pompano - 2-11-2006 at 10:32 PM

He must mean you, Bruce. Have you been pestering whales again? Your parole officer will be peeed.

Don Alley - 2-12-2006 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Not me. I don't have a shotgun or a rifle. :lol:

But when I was out pestering the whales, it sure seemed to me that if they ever have a problem with being pestered it won't be the whales that suffer. :lol:

David K - 2-12-2006 at 09:09 AM

Went out to watch whales Saturday morning from Oceanside... Nada (none)! However, we did have a great dolphin show! The ocean was full of them...

Bruce R Leech - 2-12-2006 at 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hose A
Pomp get you camera.
I want to see a photo of Bruce shaking one of the whales by its lips.

whale lips :?:

I wonder how much whale lips weigh? I wonder if they get chapped? I wonder if they git Fat lips when you hit them? I never really thought much about whale lips.

Back to the fewer whales topic

bajajudy - 2-12-2006 at 02:02 PM

Dick Russell, "Eye of the Whale", will be talking about the effect of global warming on the gray whales at 1:00 during our book signing Feb 18. He apparently read the article that started this thread and is concerned that the number is decreasing.

Bruce R Leech - 2-12-2006 at 02:05 PM

I would be interested in knowing Dick Russell opinion of people petting the whales :bounce:

elgatoloco - 2-12-2006 at 02:38 PM

Bruce, you should read his book. It is a good read.

Here are some thoughts on migrating grays from Cabrillo Natl. Park, San Diego

Pompano - 2-12-2006 at 03:01 PM

"How come we don t see as many whales as we used to?"
by Park Ranger George D. Herring of Cabrillo Natl Park, San Diego.

"At the whale overlook, rangers hear it all the time: How come we don t see as many whales as we used to? Many visitors remember seeing more gray whales from Cabrillo National Monument during the 1970 s. Are they seeing fewer whales? The answer is yes, despite an overall increase in the gray whale population. Do we know why? No, but researchers are trying to find out.

Biology students under the guidance of Dr. Jim Sumich, a whale biologist with Grossmont College in San Diego County, observe the annual winter gray whale migration from Cabrillo N.M. Each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday morning during the season (December -- February) you may see these diligent biologists at the whale overlook patiently recording the direction, numbers, and behavior, of the passing whales.
2. So what did we learn? Gray whale census counts by the National Marine Fisheries Service from Cabrillo N.M. in 1979 did report more whales -- up to 40 whales in one hour during the mid-January migration peak. Today only about eight whales are visible each hour. Curiously, this drop in shore sightings coincides with a dramatic increase in the overall population of gray whales. In 1979, 15,000 gray whales were estimated to exist. Today that number is close to 27,000. A large percentage of whales in recent years, about 65% in 1993-94, migrate too far off the Southern California coast for watchers to see from shore. This does not seem to have occurred in the late 1970s.
Some San Diegans believe this is because the animals are being harassed by a growing number of boaters in the waters off San Diego, particularly whale-watching boats. Sumich, however, believes many reasons could account for the whales' behavior, including water quality changes, military and commercial boat activity, natural shifts in migration routes, or all of the above. Nevertheless he believes that at least part of the reason is whale watching boats. Of particular impact, he feels, is the increasing number of private vessels hoping to get a close look. Federal law does not allow boaters to move within one hundred yards of whales (unless the animal moves closer on its own), but the rule is ignored by some boat captains. From the whale overlook it is not uncommon to see a whale being pursued by a dozen or more boats on a busy weekend, or to see whales take evasive action to avoid boats.
Are the boats responsible for us seeing fewer whales today than fifteen years ago? Only the whales know for sure. In the 1976 gray whale census report, referring to San Diego, Dale W. Rice wrote that, The marked decline in the Point Loma counts (of Gray Whales) in the late 1960s was thought to be due to harassment of the whales by increasing boat traffic, causing them to migrate farther offshore. Even considering the better weather [in 1976], the [higher than average] count at Point Loma this year is unexpected . This seems to indicate that the whales have migrated far off shore in the past too. If this is so, perhaps we will see 40 whales an hour again soon!
The National Park Service supports long-term research efforts like the gray whale census being taken now, because good data collected over a long period helps us better understand whale migration trends and avoid jumping to conclusions about gray whale behavior today, and tomorrow.
If you visit the park on a clear sunny morning, mid-December to mid February, you may see the passing gray whales for yourself --and develop your own theory for why the whales do what they do."

Well, there is one theory. Now, what say you?

bajajudy - 2-12-2006 at 03:10 PM

Bruce,
I will make a point of asking him!

bajajudy - 2-12-2006 at 03:14 PM

Pompano
I believe that seeing them off shore and their going to their birthing places are different cases. They have to give birth. They do not have to go close enough to land for people to see them.
But I will also ask Dick about this.

Bruce R Leech - 2-12-2006 at 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco
Bruce, you should read his book. It is a good read.

please u2u me the info on the book.

whales

tehag - 2-12-2006 at 06:35 PM

The whale observations at Point Loma may fluctuate naturally, but you can't rule out harrasment. There are many private and chartered and public whale watching craft out there most every day, and surely not all are behaving responsibly.

There is also the fact that the sewage from around a million people passes through a pipe from the treatment plant within about a mile of the observation point to the coastal kelp beds offshore . Maybe the whales get tired of swimming through all that s*#t.

There has also been large-scale kelp harvesting right there for some time. This is noisy and probably annoying to the very sound sensitive whales.

The 200 or so miles from north of San Fernando Valley to south of Ensenada is populated by more than 10 million people. All of their hustle bustle, noise, and rubbish may just have become an issue to migrating whales.

elgatoloco - 2-12-2006 at 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco
Bruce, you should read his book. It is a good read.

please u2u me the info on the book.

The book is Eye of The Whale by Dick Russell. You can buy it on-line from http://www.bajabooksandmaps.com/ :biggrin:

He follows the whale's migration from Scammon's lagoon up to Alaska and blends current events and history about the gray whale. It's really a good book.

elgatoloco - 2-12-2006 at 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tehag
The whale observations at Point Loma may fluctuate naturally, but you can't rule out harrasment. There are many private and chartered and public whale watching craft out there most every day, and surely not all are behaving responsibly.

There is also the fact that the sewage from around a million people passes through a pipe from the treatment plant within about a mile of the observation point to the coastal kelp beds offshore . Maybe the whales get tired of swimming through all that s*#t.

There has also been large-scale kelp harvesting right there for some time. This is noisy and probably annoying to the very sound sensitive whales.

The 200 or so miles from north of San Fernando Valley to south of Ensenada is populated by more than 10 million people. All of their hustle bustle, noise, and rubbish may just have become an issue to migrating whales.

Too many boats/people/pollution should not be ruled out. It is interesting to note the whales were passing these coasts when the Channel Islands were not islands but connected to the mainland. Who is to say that the whales are not just following some long forgotten instinct when they decide to head further offshore? It is a complex situation and we can never really know, until we can talk to them.

elgatoloco - 2-12-2006 at 07:27 PM

Eye of The Whale by Dick Russell

One of many interesting parts of the book is when Russell recounts the hitory of Charles Melville Scammon who goes from being mostly responsible for the near extinction of the gray whale thru is discovery of the calving grounds in baja to being the biggest advocate of banning whaling. Scammon also kept a very precise log of the marine mammals of the eastern pacific that is to this day used for reference by scholars.

Yet another part of the book that we enjoyed was learning the true story about the painted rocks on the side of the hill south of cottage cheese beach.

Check it out.

Ken Bondy - 2-12-2006 at 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
I have meaning to invest in a good digital camera with the best photo quality zoom when back stateside. Any more recommendations on such a camera from you Nomad picture hounds would be helpful.

Pompano

Take a look at the Nikon D70.

++Ken++

Pompano - 2-13-2006 at 05:40 AM

Thanks, Ken...will do. I will look forward to trying it out. I have a friend who sells electron microscopes for Nikon and will ask her for a deal on a D70.

Pompano - 2-13-2006 at 05:46 AM

Back on the subject of whales...I think that there is indeed a great difference in whale attitudes when it comes to approaching them in a calving place AND in a hunting place. Naturally, they are in different behavioural situations.

vandenberg - 2-13-2006 at 01:04 PM

I think I saw Tecate " CIRCULACION " signs in the ocean around Monterey. Makes sense, for most individuals with any sense, avoid the sewer called " the inland empire " any chance they get.

Tomas Tierra - 2-14-2006 at 10:22 PM

not sure how they go about counting the whales or when they stop, but..
I saw at least twenty five grey whales go down the back side of Anacapa Isl. off of ventura county today. Definately heading south...TT

Pompano - 2-15-2006 at 03:38 AM

I just read where the grey whale count was about 17,000 in 1979 and is somewhere around 25,000 today. Things are improving, it appears. Bueno suerte, ballenas!

ursidae69 - 2-15-2006 at 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco

The book is Eye of The Whale by Dick Russell. You can buy it on-line from http://www.bajabooksandmaps.com/ :biggrin:

He follows the whale's migration from Scammon's lagoon up to Alaska and blends current events and history about the gray whale. It's really a good book.

Thanks for the link, I picked it up today.

Also, this has been a good debate. My 2 cents: I think the negative impacts that the whale watching operations might have are negated by the better understanding about nature the particpants will have afterward. Anyone that has seen the whales up close cannot help but be inspired to protect them and their environment.

[Edited on 2-15-2006 by ursidae69]

Tomas Tierra - 2-15-2006 at 10:13 AM

Very good insight u-69..For me personally the impact of petting the whales myself and then seeing my 3 year old Daughter hug a new born whale was intense.When we got home from that trip I immediately became involved in helping to slow Mitsubishi's salt works plan..I found myself angry that San Ignacio lagoon was threatened by something like this.

I think overall the conditions in the eastern Pacific and the cyclic nature of the oceans have a much greater impact on the whales than watching them in the lagoons...why would a mother shove her calf into a boat full of tourists if she felt threatened??

Powerful stuff!

Bruce R Leech - 2-15-2006 at 11:46 AM

that is the point . maybe she will push in to a boat full of people with harpoons next time.

it is never a good thing to teach wildlife to trust Man.

Never
never
never

Tomas Tierra - 2-15-2006 at 11:58 AM

I'm pretty sure we have a handle on whaling efforts in the lagoons don't we??

Haven't heard any reports of "friendly" whale activity anywhere but the lagoons.

I don't see the "point" of a harpoon in the lagoon any time soon..not even on the next bloo moon...

Bruce R Leech - 2-15-2006 at 12:02 PM

where do thay go when thay leave the Lagoons?

Pompano - 2-15-2006 at 12:07 PM

Whale watching is a major 'business' now worldwide. It is all about tourist money these days...not whale oil and perfume additives. Thank Neptune that as more people see more whales, fall in love with the idea of perpetuating the species, and contribute time and money to that affect...we will have whales in our future.

Meanwhile... troubles in Tonga.

http://www.sicri.org/assets/downloads/SICRI05_PDF/SICRI2005_...

Bruce R Leech - 2-15-2006 at 12:37 PM

I think that the people that shot the whales with paint balls are doing the wales a better favor than those that are petting them.

whale watching is good.

whale interaction is bad

ursidae69 - 2-15-2006 at 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
I think that the people that shot the whales with paint balls are doing the wales a better favor than those that are petting them.

whale watching is good.

whale interaction is bad

While I see your point and agree to some extent, I think you should give the animals a little more credit. They can associate places with danger. Just because you pet a whale in Baja does not mean the whale will want to get petted by whalers with harpoons in Alaska. They learn the dangers in a particular area. As an example, look at deer or elk, I see them all the time, sometimes I get pretty close on hikes, but once hunting season starts, they are GONE! I think the animals have a little more intelligence than we give them credit for.

Tomas Tierra - 2-15-2006 at 01:54 PM

"where do they go when they leave the lagoons?"

That's my "point"...There have been no reports of friendly activity outside the lagoons!!

Intelligence?? I agree, ursidae99

Pompano - 2-15-2006 at 01:57 PM

"As an example, look at deer or elk, I see them all the time, sometimes I get pretty close on hikes, but once hunting season starts, they are GONE! I think the animals have a little more intelligence than we give them credit for."

And sometimes we give hunters TOO MUCH credit for intelligence...!!

[Edited on 2-15-2006 by Pompano]

Bob and Susan - 2-15-2006 at 02:26 PM

is the vice president in that group? :lol:

Roberto - 2-15-2006 at 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy

Quote:

Pompano

Take a look at the Nikon D70.

++Ken++

The D50 has come out recently. Specs are VERY close to the D70, and it's a couple hundred dollars less. Worth a look. You can read reviews and spec comparisons at http://www.dpreview.com .

bajajudy - 2-15-2006 at 05:08 PM

Pompano
You will have to buy a lens for either of the Nikons to shoot something like your whale shot. I have the D70 and really like it but for an all in one unit, I still take my trusty Mavica which has a built in zoom.

Whales-What blows me away is the fact that the whales learned that, for instance, Scammons Lagoon, which has been described as red with whale blood at one time, is now safe. How did they know it had changed? How many trips did it take before they figured it out?
More questions for Dick Russell Saturday

whales

tehag - 2-15-2006 at 06:05 PM

Today at Lopez Mateos. This one is very young and wouldn't get closer than about 20 feet from the panga. There were quite a few pangas in the part of the bay where we were. All those I saw appeared to be observing standard cautions: high speed only when out of the channel, very slow speed when near whales, drifting dead engined when approached. If the whales were at all alarmed by the interactions, they didn't seem so to me. Their perfectly tranquil rising and sinking were almost hypnotic. The calves were even nursing quite near to boats and doing a lot of rolling on their mothers' bodies. One splashed its tail and flipped a couple of gallons of water right into its mom's blowhole. She sort of sneezed and then rolled onto her side for the calf.

As far as the thing about making a wild thing lose its fear of humans goes, we are faced with some trade-offs. I agree with what Ursidae says, the raised awareness does the whole species immeasurable good. We see both sides of that coin all the time, often with tragic small-scale results, but in this crowded world where humans and their impact are on the heavy side of all equations, raised awareness and sensitivity can work in favor of entire species' well being. Our own included if we get some of it right.