BajaNomad - Ok it's the generator question again

Ok it's the generator question again

Keri - 3-4-2006 at 09:35 AM

We are looking to purchase a generator to run a 40ft trailer in San Quintin. We are completely off grid and noise will be a factor as neighbors are close. We've been told 3500 to 5000 would be the size to get for our needs. Can you make some suggestions for us. Different brands, prices, best place to buy , gas vs diesel. Any help would be greatly appreciated.Thanks ,k :?:

Diver - 3-4-2006 at 10:12 AM

Go HONDA or go home !!
Gas generators are more reaily available and less expensive to buy.
I've always been happy with my Hondas, also, you can buy/build a sound-proofing box to surround the generator. Cosco often has Coleman generators with Honda engines at a pretty good price.

If your concerned about noise and have the funds, go with batteries and solar panels with generator back-up. Next cheaper is just more batteries for more time without the generator.

Is this a permanent set-up for a 40' camp trailer or singlewide ?
Is this for full time or part time use ?
Does the trailer have any batteries or solar ?
Do you need 110, 220, or just 12v ?
Tell us more and you'll get more/better answers.

Al G - 3-4-2006 at 11:08 AM

Hi Keri,
I have discovered that One large Gen set is not the way to go. IMHO Depending on your need 2- 1000 Honda's that can run single or tandem when needed is Best.
The best setup would be 4- 6 volts with a single solar panel to build in the day and use at night with 1 gen set for light need and tandem for the big stuff.
Albert
PS I could recommend panel and controller. MotorHome mag. had a great one explained this month

[Edited on 3-4-2006 by Al G]

comitan - 3-4-2006 at 11:26 AM

Keri

I to would go with Honda EX5500K2 ultra quite $2850 incl. ship. at Mayberrys, also consider propane if you have bulk delivery in your area, just get a 300lt tank never carry gas and gen will last a lot longer, the following site is for conversion. http://www.propane-generators.com/honda-generators.htm

Bob and Susan - 3-4-2006 at 04:30 PM

Keri

I have 3 deisels 5500w each and they are LOUD!!!

Deisel is cheaper and way more powerful but every time i fill up I spill some and smell for an hour even after I wash up.

Propane will be my next choice...

A couple of smaller honda units that you can "hook together" would be way better as they are a lot lighter to move around and a lot quiter.

Remember if you want to run a washer/dryer you need a bigger unit (5000w) as to start a washer motor you need start-up power.

For you 2500 watt inverter would be the way to go with 16 deep cell 104 AH batteries from Costco ($36 each) and a small generator to charge the batteries once a day, during the day.

These batteries are car size and your husband will be able to move them without a forklift.

Your trailer probably has a "converter" for the 12 volt system and that thing really sucks juice when you use an inverter.

Tell us what you did....later

the solar panel idea is a good one

eetdrt88 - 3-4-2006 at 05:18 PM

we have a trailer thats just a little bit smaller than yours and we run all the lights off of one little panel and one battery...I guess alot it depends on how much power youre going to need

Not an expert but..

Porky Pig - 3-5-2006 at 08:57 AM

When sizing a generator, a lot depends on how you plug into it. Some older trailers have a single, 3 prong (20 Amp) plug, which means anything over 2400w (true power) is wasted unless you can utilize one of the generators other plugs, ie run an extension cord to a washing machine etc. Many larger generators have a 30 amp receptacle which will mean you have 3600 watts available from a single plug if you have a a 30 amp rated male plug on your trailer (or install one). In other words, if you plan to use only one outlet from your generator, a 6000w generator is overkill as you will have only 3600w available to the single outlet. (mas o menos).
Dave & Juanita

[Edited on 3-5-2006 by Porky Pig]

comitan - 3-5-2006 at 09:20 AM

A very good point porky, in San Quintin I would think they don't need air conditioning sure looks like 3600W is more than enough.

Al G - 3-5-2006 at 10:49 AM

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp
Keri,
This subject has caused me to do some checking to replace my Onan 6.5 gas gussler. Only if I was a welder would this thing not be a waste.
I am not an expert, but full time RV living and boon-docking
has made me realize you can over do anything.
Maybe not the case, but being "off the grid" in itself is an act of being conservative. I don't know your usage and you may need 2 Honda EX4500.
New 4500 cost $3200 MSRP
Pro: Can run an air conditioner
Con: loud even for Honda

New Honda EU 2000i cost $880 (ebay) X2 $1760 + $300 parallel box ($125 Parallel cables can be used)
Pros: 1) Can run air conditioner
2) a lot less to operate most of the time
3) Very quite most of the time and Quieter then one big engine
4) You have power if one needs service
Just something to chew on.

[Edited on 3-5-2006 by Al G]

Al G

Keri - 3-7-2006 at 08:08 AM

would like to hear your suggestion on the solar panel. Like the idea about 2 generators, Also this is the first time we have ever done this type of thing before. We know nothing about generators or solar. We will only be in San Quintin part time. How do you keep the batteries charged when you are not there or do you? Does the solar panel take care of this? What about wind generated? Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so many questions. Glad to have the expertise this board has to offer. Thanks again everyone for all your answers, k

Bob and Susan - 3-7-2006 at 08:25 AM

These guys have assisted me....
http://www.partsonsale.com/main.htm

Dont but CHEAP solar panels...

Solar panels have a legal variance...a 100 watt panel may onlt produce 80 watts

Panels are sold by the watt so watch out...
$4.50 to $5.00 a watt is an estimate.

The differance between 12volt and 24volt panels is how many you can string to get the desired wattage.
24 volt lets you string more together

You need to get a controler for your panels ~$100
This keeps the batteries charged and doesnt let them get over charged.

There's lots more too...you'll be an expert later :lol:

Al G - 3-7-2006 at 08:52 AM

Keri, I am headed for a appointment and will answer soon. My answer is a combination solar, battery and generator. No 12v "starter" batteries. bGot to go.
Albert

bajalou - 3-7-2006 at 09:10 AM

The 2 honda eu2000i is a great solution for a sometimes need of3500 or so watts. I use one to back up my solar panels - runs on econ mode about 12 hrs on a gallon of fuel. I don't run a AC so that's not a issue hjere.

David K - 3-7-2006 at 09:10 AM

Where is Bajabus???

Keri try emailing Max at bajabus*at*starband.net as I consider him the best solar power and satellite Internet expert on the peninsula. Max is legally licensed in Mexico for installation as well... Although he is in Sur.

There is no need for noisey generators to ruin the silent Baja nights and upset your neighbors!

El Camote has/had a 100% solar powered home in Baja, as well... if Max is not around... he might give some advice?

Solar power......

Hook - 3-7-2006 at 10:40 AM

......at the Cielito Lindo in San Quintin?

Talk to your neighbors about that one. I would bet that there are literally hundreds of days/year where the sun never breaks out in that area.

Just be sure that the panels will give you the juice you need in overcast conditions.

If the "ganged" Honda 2000 will work for you, that would sure be nice. You could take one or both with you on other trips. But they only put out about 3500 watts total with the parallel kit.

[Edited on 3-7-2006 by Hook]

bancoduo - 3-7-2006 at 03:17 PM

Go nucular by George Bush. Has good info. I learnt a lot :light:

Amen, banco......

Hook - 3-7-2006 at 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bancoduo
Go nucular by George Bush. Has good info. I learnt a lot :light:

Yeah, Keri, all you got to do is agree to provide low-paying, outsourced jobs for American corporations and you're in there.
:lol:

wornout - 3-7-2006 at 04:12 PM

Outsource, Outsource, Outsource, nobody talks about insource. Wait a minute, the UAE wants to buy the ports, the longshoreman will strike, the UAE will bring in help from the UAEcountries, so I guess insourcing is 'just around the corner'.

Al G - 3-7-2006 at 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keri
would like to hear your suggestion on the solar panel. Like the idea about 2 generators, Also this is the first time we have ever done this type of thing before. We know nothing about generators or solar. We will only be in San Quintin part time. How do you keep the batteries charged when you are not there or do you? Does the solar panel take care of this? What about wind generated? Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so many questions. Glad to have the expertise this board has to offer. Thanks again everyone for all your answers, k

Sorry to take so long, but I had one of those day that nobody likes, I had to work.
I tried to find an on line review like the one in Motorhome Magazine, but the best I could do was to get the URL for the panel system I think is the best around. The system can achieve boost ratings of 45 to 70 % over standard panels.
They are not cheap, but at $1300 for system with 1- 100 watt and Super charge controller. You can add 4 more 100 watt panels as you need them.
http://www.amsolar.com/sunrunner100-30.html
1) Do not use 12v deep cycle starter batteries of any kind! People who use these do not understand batteries.
2) My suggestion are all with a 40' Mobile as a base.
3) I use 4- 6v cheap ($170) golf cart batteries, plenty for my 33' Moho. Runs lights, TV, PVR, Satellite, DVD recorder, 550 watt computer, and charge my cell for 2 days.
I recharge with a 85 amp charger in short order from a 6500w Onan. I use a 1000w Honda to top off batteries and outside lighting.
I wouldn't mind off the grid solar living as some have here, but I am not investing $20,000+ (don't think I live long enough to recoup)
My Ideal setup:
2- 2000w Honda's
4or 5 100w solar panels with 500w controller (could get by with 2)
4- Interstate 6v golf cart batteries

Someone said San Quintin' has a lot of cloudy days if so may consider a 1000w Honda instead of solar to top batteries cheaply?
Hope this helps and check out that URL good, A lot to learn there.
I know I forgot something so maybe more later.
oh...Wind! No nothing about it, but maybe for San Quintin wind is a better deal then solar. I think I'll do some checking.

Bedman - 3-8-2006 at 01:26 AM

Hello Keri,

There are a few other things you need to decide befor you go and spend money.

Is this elect. need for a permanent trailer ? or will you travel in it?
12 volt or 110 volt?
Will you be selling the trailer in the near future?
What do you want the system to do for you?
Run A/C ? Lights? TV? Water pump?
Sattelite service? Computer? Ceiling fan? Clock radio? Microwave?

AC Devices- Microwave, Laptop, Tv, Printer, Vacuum etc.
AC devices can be run from batteries, ONLY if you have an 110 volt Inverter.

DC devices- 12 volt lights, Car stereo, RV frige, RV furnace, RV water heater etc.
DC devices can be run direct from 12 volt batteries.

Inverters can and do have battery chargers built into them and would negate the need for a seperate charger. Inverter will be necessary to operate 110 volt appliances from 12 volt batteries.

You need to build a list of things you want to power and the estimated time you want to run them and their power consumption per hour. Then you add up the the estimate to come to a total power consumption day.

THEN, and Only then you can decide what your power needs/requirements are.
Then you will have the max power you anticipate you will need at any one time and then you decide what size Generator/Solar/Battery bank you will need.

Long term Trailer, If you plan on selling it soon, I'd suggest you take the middle of the road quality. No need to splurge on state of the art equipment for a 1 year use and write off, lose 50% of your investment when you sell the trailer.

Permanent trailer/Long term use 5 years or longer.
Buy the best of everything and add 25% more output than what you think you'll Need.

This is just off the top of my head after one too many glasses of vino. If you want more, just ask.

Bedman

[Edited on 3-8-2006 by Bedman]
sheesh..too much wine and bad typing skills equals many edits

Bedman

[Edited on 3-8-2006 by Bedman]

OH, And Propane is Definetly the way to go. Never have to make a trip to the gas station for Gas/Diesel and never have to fill the dang thing and smell like Gas/Diessel till your next shower.

Also, the Two generator approach is fine IF you plan on traveling. Two little ones are easier to move. But if your stationary (or is that ery?) one is a lot easier to manage. Your not carrying it/them around. The Two unit option mkaes sense if you just want to run a small appliance for a short time (why waste the gas on the bigger unit?) but the Bigger single unit will do other things while your running it, like charge up the batteries.

I've never heard a bad word about Honda. I personally have a 3500ISEB Yamaha with remote start. and Two Honda 1000's.

Bedman

Bedman

[Edited on 3-8-2006 by Bedman]

bancoduo - 3-8-2006 at 09:37 AM

KAT54

So you can spell better than the prez. Homeland security will be contacting you. :bounce:

Neal Johns - 3-8-2006 at 02:37 PM

The RV people are always looking for an inexpensive way to do things. Here is an alternate to hooking two generators together other than using the expensive Honda combiner:

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=84890...

bajalou - 3-8-2006 at 03:57 PM

I got a combiner cable from the Honda dealer that's at Quartzite for about $40 a couple years ago. Think his main place is in Needles.

Bob and Susan - 3-8-2006 at 04:41 PM

that $40 piece is now $96

Bedman - 3-8-2006 at 08:20 PM

Here's a well written article on Deep Cell RV Batteries and their maintenance. I have a few more well written articles on several other topics. If you like this, let me know and I'll post more.

RV Battery Savvy
To properly maintain and extend the life of your RV batteries you need to have a basic
understanding of what a battery is and how it works. Batteries used in RVs are lead acid
batteries. Lead acid batteries have several cells connected in series. Each cell produces
approximately 2.1 volts, so a 12-volt battery with six cells in series produces an out put
voltage of 12.6 volts. Lead acid batteries are made of plates, lead and lead oxide
submersed in electrolyte that is 36% sulfuric acid and 64% water. Lead acid batteries
don?t make electricity they store electricity. The size of the lead plates and the amount of
electrolyte determines the amount of charge a battery can store.

Now it?s very important that you use the right battery for the type of application. The
battery used to start and run the engine is usually referred to as a chassis battery or a
starting battery. Vehicle starters require large starting currents for short periods of time.
Starting batteries have a large number of thin plates to maximize the plate area exposed
to the electrolyte. This is what provides the large amount of current in short bursts.
Starting batteries are rated in Cold Cranking Amps (CCA). CCA is the number of amps
the battery can deliver at 0 degrees F for 30 seconds and not drop below 7.2 volts.
Starting batteries should not be used for deep cycle applications.

The battery or batteries used to supply 12-volts to the RV itself are commonly referred to
as house batteries. House batteries need to be deep cycle batteries that are designed to
provide a steady amount of current over a long period of time. Starting batteries and
marine batteries should not be used in this application. True deep cycle batteries have
much thicker plates and are designed to be deeply discharged and recharged over and
over again. These batteries are rated in Amp Hours and more recently Reserve Capacity.
The amp hour rating is basically how many amps the battery can deliver for how many
hours before the battery is discharged. Amps times hours. In other words a battery that
can deliver 5 amps for 20 hours before it is discharged would have a 100 amp hour rating
5 Amps X 20 Hours = 100Amp Hours. This same battery can deliver 20 amps for 5 hours
20 Amps X 5 Hours = 100 Amp Hours. Reserve Capacity rating (RC) is the number of
minutes at 80 degrees F that the battery can deliver 25 amps until it drops below 10.5
volts. To figure the amp hour rating you can multiply the RC rating by 60%. RC X 60%

The two major construction types of deep cycle batteries are flooded lead acid and Valve
Regulated Lead Acid. Flooded lead acid batteries are the most common type and come in
2 styles. Serviceable with removable caps so you can inspect and perform maintenance or
the maintenance free type. In VRLA batteries the electrolyte is either suspended in a gel
or a fiberglass-mat. Gell cell batteries use battery acid in the form of a gell. They?re leak
proof and because of this they work well for marine applications. There are several
disadvantages to gell cell batteries for RV applications. Most importantly they must be
charged at a slower rate and a lower voltage than flooded cell batteries. Any overcharging
can cause permanent damage to the cells. Absorbed Glass Mat, or AGM Technology,
uses a fibrous mat between the plates which is 90% soaked in electrolyte. They?re more
expensive than a standard deep cycle battery but they have some advantages. They can be
charged the same as a standard lead acid battery, they don?t loose any water, they can?t
leak, they are virtually maintenance free and they are almost impossible to freeze.

The life expectancy of your RV batteries depends on you. How they?re used, how well
they?re maintained, how they?re discharged, how they?re re-charged, and how they are
stored all contribute to a batteries life span. A battery cycle is one complete discharge
from 100% down to about 50% and then re-charged back to 100%. One important factor
to battery life is how deep the battery is cycled each time. If the battery is discharged to
50 % everyday it will last twice as long as it would if it?s cycled to 80%. The life
expectancy also depends on how soon a discharged battery is recharged. The sooner it is
recharged the better.

What does all of this mean to you? That depends on how you use your RV. If most of
your camping is done where you?re plugged into an electrical source then your main
concern is just too properly maintain your deep cycle batteries. But if you really like to
get away from it all and you do some serious dry camping you?ll want the highest amp
hour capacities you can fit on your RV.

Deep cycle batteries come in all different sizes. Some are designated by Group size, like
group 24, 27 and 31. Basically the larger the battery the more amp hours you get.
Depending on your needs and the amount of space you have available, there are several
options when it comes to batteries. You can use one 12-volt 24 group deep cycle battery
that provides 70 to 85 AH. You can use two 12-volt 24 group batteries wired in parallel
that provides 140 to 170 AH. Parallel wiring increases amp hours but not voltage. If you
have the room you can do what a lot of RVers do and switch from the standard 12 volt
batteries to two of the larger 6-volt golf cart batteries. These pairs of 6-volt batteries need
to be wired in series to produce the required 12-volts and they?ll provide 180 to 220 AH.
Series wiring increases voltage but not amp hours. If this still doesn?t satisfy your
requirements you can build larger battery banks using four 6-volt batteries wired in series
/ parallel that will give you 12-volts and double your AH capacity.

The 2 most common causes for RV battery failure are undercharging and overcharging.
Undercharging is a result of batteries being repeatedly discharged and not fully recharged
between cycles. If a battery is not recharged the sulfate material that attaches to the
discharged portions of the plates begins to harden into crystals. Over time this sulfate
cannot be converted back into active plate material and the battery is ruined. This also
occurs when a battery remains discharged for an extended period of time. Sulfation is the
number one cause of battery failure. The second leading cause of battery failure is
overcharging. Overcharging batteries results in severe water loss and plate corrosion. The
good news is both of these problems are avoidable.

Before we talk about battery maintenance we need to talk about battery safety. Lead acid
batteries contain sulfuric acid which is extremely corrosive and can cause severe burns or
even blindness. And the hydrogen gas that batteries produce when they?re charging is
very explosive. When you work around batteries you need to wear goggles and gloves,
remove all jewelry and do not smoke or use any open flames. Caution: If you
accidentally get battery acid on your skin, flush it with lots of water and if it gets in
your eyes you need to flush with low pressure water for 15 minutes and call a doctor.
Battery maintenance is actually very simple. By performing theses maintenance
procedures every three to six months you can extend the life expectancy of your RV
batteries. You should make these checks more often in hot temperatures or during heavy
battery usage.

The first thing we want to do is visually inspect the battery for any obvious damage. Any
fluid on or around the battery may be an indication that electrolyte is leaking from the
battery. A damaged or leaking battery should be replaced immediately. Inspect the
battery terminals, cables, and connectors for any damage and for good connections. Look
for any signs of corrosion. Corrosion can be neutralized with a 50/50 mixture of baking
soda and warm water. Use one pound of baking soda to one gallon of water. Clean any
dirty battery terminals and the insides of cable clamps with a post and clamp cleaner. If
you remove any battery cables always disconnect the negative battery cable first. When
you reconnect the clamps to the terminals connect the positive cable first. Never over
tighten the battery terminals. Warning: Do Not over tighten terminals. This can result in
broken battery posts, post meltdown and / or fire. When you finish, spray the clamps with
a battery terminal protector.

Checking the electrolyte level on a regular basis can save your flooded lead acid
batteries. Check the water level monthly and if you leave your RV plugged in with the
batteries being charged by the converter battery charger check it bi-monthly. If your
converter doesn?t have a three stage charger the battery is getting a constant charge of
13.5 volts. When the batteries are topped off this voltage is too high for a float charge and
it can boil off the electrolyte over time. When you add water only use mineral free water.
Distilled water is best and only fill the cell to 1/8 inch below the fill well. Overfilling
cells will cause battery acid to overflow. When this happens the battery will lose some of
its capacity and corrosion will build up on and around the battery. Water should only be
added after fully charging the battery unless the water level is below the plates.
Follow these steps for watering the battery. Remove the vent caps and look inside the fill
wells. Check the electrolyte levels. The minimum level required for charging the battery
is at the top of the plates. If it?s below the plates add enough distilled water to cover the
plates before you charge the battery. Fully charge the battery before adding more water.
When the battery is charged remove the vent caps and check the electrolyte levels. Add
distilled water until electrolyte level is 1/8 inch below the fill well. Replace and tighten
all vent caps. Warning: Never add battery acid to a battery.

Visual inspections of our RV batteries are important, but that won?t tell us the actual
condition of our batteries. We need to test the batteries to determine their state of charge
and overall condition. There are a couple of different ways to check your batteries state of
charge. You can measure the voltage with a digital voltmeter or check the specific gravity
of the acid with a hydrometer. Testing the specific gravity is the preferred method but
measuring voltage has its advantages. If you have sealed batteries your only choice is to
measure voltage and measuring voltage can give you a quick picture of the batteries
depth of discharge so you know when they need to be recharged.

If the battery state-of-charge is below 70% the battery needs to be recharged before you
test it. The battery should not be tested if it has been charged or discharged in the last 6
hours and preferably 24 hours. This is called an open circuit voltage test. To measure the
voltage you need a good digital voltmeter. Using the DC voltmeter check the voltage and
compare it to this chart.

**(Sorry, it's impossible to get this chart to come out on Nomads board as it was intended )
% State Of Charge Specific Gravity Corrected 80 F Open Circuit 12-Volt Open Circuit 6-Volt

100 1.277 12.73 6.37
90 1.258 12.62 6.31
80 1.238 12.50 6.25
70 1.217 12.37 6.19
60 1.195 12.24 6.12
50 1.172 12.10 6.05
40 1.148 11.96 5.98
30 1.124 11.81 5.91
Discharged 1.120 11.80 5.90

Whenever possible you should avoid discharging a battery below 40%. Battery readings
that are off of this chart indicate the battery was left discharged too long or the battery
may have a bad cell.

The preferred method for testing the battery?s state of charge is to check the specific
gravity reading of each cell. You can purchase a hydrometer at an auto parts store for less
than 10 dollars. The electrolyte is a solution of acid and water so you need to wear
goggles and gloves and avoid skin contact. Remove the vent caps and check the
electrolyte levels. There has to be enough electrolyte for the hydrometer to pick it up. If
you have to add any water you?ll have to charge the battery and then let it sit for at least
six hours before testing. Fill and drain the hydrometer at least twice in each cell before
taking a sample. Make sure there is enough electrolyte in the hydrometer to support the
float. Take the reading and record it then drain it back into the cell. Test all of the cells
and replace the vent caps. If your hydrometer does not compensate for temperature you
must correct the readings to 80 degrees F. Add .004 for every 10 degrees above 80
degrees F and subtract .004 for every 10 degrees below 80 degrees F.

Compare the readings to the chart.
The specific gravity readings should be at 1.277 + or - .007. If any of the readings are low
check and record the voltage levels, put the battery on a complete charge then take the
specific gravity readings again. If any of the readings still remain low check the voltage
levels again, and perform an equalization charge on the battery. Equalizing is an
overcharge performed on flooded lead acid battery after it has been fully charged. It
reverses the buildup of negative chemical effects like stratification, a condition where
acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top. Set the battery
charger on equalizing voltage and charge the battery. The battery will begin to gas and
bubble vigorously. Test the specific gravity every hour. Equalization is complete when
the specific gravity readings no longer rise during the gassing stage.

If any readings still register low one or more of these conditions may exist:
The battery is old and approaching the end of its life.
The battery was left in a state of discharge too long.
Electrolyte was lost due to spillage or overflow.
A weak or bad cell is developing.
The Battery was watered excessively previous to testing
Batteries with these conditions should be taken to a specialist for further testing

It?s important to keep in mind that what you take out of your batteries must be put back in
and if it?s not done in a timely manner the battery sulfates and can be permanently
damaged. Many RV converter chargers have a fixed output voltage of 13.5 volts and over
time this can boil off the electrolyte in the battery. You need a three stage charger that
can provide a bulk charge then an absorption charge and finally a float charge. There are
RV converter chargers on the market that will do this.

If you purchase a multi-stage battery charger you need to know the charging current
limitations of the battery being charged. When selecting a charger, the charge rate should
be between 10 and 13% of the battery?s 20-hour AH capacity. For example, a battery
with a 20-hour capacity rating of 225 AH will use a charger rated between approximately
23 and 30 amps. For proper charging always follow the instructions that come with the
battery charger.

Batteries should be charged as soon as possible after each period of use or whenever they
reach a 70% state of charge or below. The batteries should only be charged in a well
ventilated area and keep any sparks and open flames away from a battery being charged.
Check the electrolyte levels before and after charging batteries.

If you put your RV in storage it?s a good idea to remove the batteries and put them in
storage too. This is quite simple to do. When you?re removing the battery always
remember to remove the negative terminal first. Clean the batteries with a 50/50 mixture
of baking soda and water if necessary. Check the electrolyte level and add distilled water
if necessary. Test the battery state of charge and charge any batteries that are at or below
80%. A discharged or partially charged battery will freeze much faster than a charged
battery. Store the batteries in a cool dry place but not where they could freeze. Batteries
in storage will loose their charge. Test the state of charge every month and charge
batteries that are at or below 80% state of charge. Completely charge the batteries before
re-installing them next spring. For optimum performance equalize the batteries after they
are fully charged.

Mark Polk is the owner of RV Education 101. RV Education 101 is a North Carolina based
company that produces professional training videos, DVDs and e-books on how to use and
maintain your RV. Our goal is to make all of your RVing experiences safe, fun and stress free.
www.rveducation101.c

Bedman

egrpoet - 3-9-2006 at 09:04 AM

I?m looking to purchase a PowerLift XP4400E 6.5 Hp OHV Gas Generator w/ Electric Start & Wheel Kit for $400.00 plus shipping. Any feedback on this generator will be appreciated.

Thank you

Diver - 3-9-2006 at 09:12 AM

Only 3500 watts under use.
No Honda engine........no mention of whose engine.
Very cheap but good luck, especially mail order.

Generators for general daily use...

Pompano - 3-9-2006 at 10:18 AM

You know the answer..."you get what you pay for". I can't begin to think of the number of cheap, under-powered, loud, and short-lved gensets I have seen in Baja over the years. They all end up at a garage sale for pennies on the dollar.

My personal experience: I have had Generac propane...Coleman gas/propane...Onan diesel...and some others over the course of 35 years. These are all good units, but none performed as well or as long as my current Honda. I have the Honda EX5500 remote-start, super-quiet, water-cooled generator. I have used it for a remote power source with our 5th Wheel camper and now as main genset for our Baja home. I am very satisfied with it's operation and economy. It has full ranges of operaton, plug-ins. and safety-shutoffs for heat, oil, fuel, etc. It can range from 110 - 220 volts. Cost was about $3000 plus some extras I wanted. Smaller EUI units can be used in parallel...such as the 1000--2000--3000 watters. The Internet is full of great buys.

[Edited on 3-9-2006 by Pompano]

egrpoet - 3-9-2006 at 10:33 AM

Looks like honda is the way to go.

Thank you so much for the info.

Boy o boy do we want to thank you guys

Keri - 3-10-2006 at 01:46 PM

I see we have lots of home work to do. We do have a park model trailer with 2 pop outs. . We will only be there part time. We will not need air conditioning. We do not have a 12 volt system in the trailer. We are trying to figure out our needs as you have instructed us. We are reading everything you have given us. You guys are great. We will let you know what we've come up with when finished . THANKS MUCHO, k and m :yes:

Hey and don't forget the booksigning May 6th at Pyramid resort. If you join us please introduce yourselves and talk to Mike. He still has a million questions,k :?:

comitan - 3-10-2006 at 03:47 PM

Just a little added info,your generator has a spark arrestor and is required in the US, but in some cases where it is not required it is better to remove it because eventually it will clog up and give you problems.

Bedman - 3-10-2006 at 06:07 PM

Keri, here's another pertinent article for living off the grid. Near the bottom of this article is some good AC and DC appliance wattage useage. Hope it helps.

Bedman

RV Inverters 101 by: Mark J. Polk
If you own an RV, or have been around RVs youХre probably familiar with a
converter. When youХre plugged into electricity or using a generator the RV
converters job is to reduce 120 volts AC down to 12 volt DC to supply power to all of
the 12 volt appliances and accessories in the RV. If you werenХt plugged into an
electrical source your RV battery(s) would supply the power to all of the 12 volt
appliances and accessories in the RV. The converter basically prevents your RV
battery(s) from draining when youХre plugged into electricity or when you run the
generator. The converter also acts as a battery charger, providing a trickle charge to
keep the batteries topped off.

Now, what about an inverter? Your RV batteries produce power in Direct Current (DC)
that run at low voltages. Power companies and AC generators produce sine wave
Alternating Current (AC), which is used to operate 120-volt appliances and electronic
equipment. An inverter takes 12-volt DC power from your RV batteries and
electronically changes it to 120-volt AC.

If youХve been RVing for awhile you have probably been in a situation where you
needed an inverter at one time or another. Maybe it was when you were dry camping
and didnХt have access to electricity, or even when you have a generator but itХs after
quiet hours and you still want to watch a TV program. You don't want to buy a bigger
inverter than you need, but you also donХt want one thatХs too small for how you plan to
use it.

Inverters are available in small portable units that plug directly into a cigarette lighter
or 12 volt outlet to larger high power hardwired units that can provide electricity for the
entire RV electrical system and are permanently installed in the RV. Many of the
inverters found in RVs today are inverter / chargers. What this means basically is that
they are inverters, battery chargers and a transfer switch all in one. They act as a battery
charger when youХre plugged into an electrical source or using the generator, and they
invert stored DC battery power when no electrical source or generator power is
available. They are capable of transferring from inverter to battery charger
automatically.

Inverters are rated in watts and come in a variety of sizes and power ranges from 75
watts to 3000 watts. The size of the inverter you will need depends on several factors. If
the majority of your camping is done at campgrounds where electricity is plentiful you
may not even need an inverter. On the other hand you might enjoy boon docking where
all of your 120 volt requirements depend on batteries and an inverter.

When you purchase an inverter the output capacity must be capable of operating the
loads that will be placed on it. Inverters have two different capacity ratings, the
continuous output rating and surge capacity rating. Continuous output is the maximum
wattage the inverter can output for a long time period. Surge capacity is the maximum
wattage the inverter can output during initial start up. All appliances require more
power when they initially start, compared to what they use when they are running. They
can use as much as two or three times the amount to start that they use to run, so the
starting power required for any appliance that you plan to use with the inverter must be
within the surge capacity rating.

LetХs say you only plan to use an inverter to run one or two small appliances. You
might want to use a 19-inch TV, a VCR, and an overhead light all at one time. You
total all the wattages, about 80 watts for the TV, 25 watts for the VCR, and 20 watts for
a fluorescent light. This is a total of 125 watts. In this case you can probably get by
with about a 300 watt inverter. Other RVers use inverters to operate microwaves, coffee
pots and other larger appliances which will require a larger more sophisticated inverter.

Another consideration is the type of AC power being produced. There are modified sine
wave inverters and true or pure sine wave inverters. Modified sine wave inverters are
less expensive and will power most types of appliances. The down side to modified sine
wave inverters is that some electronic equipment will not run on this waveform and
because itХs not true or pure sine wave you may get some electrical noise or a snowy
picture on your TV screen. True or pure sine wave inverters are more expensive, but
they are capable of producing power as good as a power company and all appliances
and electronic equipment will run the way they are intended to. Microwaves, motors
and other inductive loads will run quieter and will not overheat and electrical noise will
be reduced. If you plan to use a computer or other sensitive electronic equipment you
may want to consider a true sine wave inverter.

Another very important consideration when using an inverter is your RV battery(s). The
more electricity you plan to use not only requires a larger inverter, but a larger battery
bank too. Batteries are rated in amp hours. The amp hour rating is basically how many
amps the battery can deliver for how many hours before the battery is discharged and
needs to be recharged. Amps times hours. In other words a battery that can deliver 5
amps for 20 hours before it is discharged would have a 100 amp hour rating. 5 Amps X
20 Hours = 100Amp Hours. This same battery can deliver 20 amps for 5 hours. 20
Amps X 5 Hours = 100 Amp Hours.

You need to compute the amperages you plan to use and the amount of time you plan to
use it to determine if your battery(s) are capable of providing enough stored power.
Keep in mind when you make your calculations that when a battery is discharged to
50% of its capacity it is basically dead. What this means is a 100 amp hour battery can
really only provide 50 amp hours of service before it needs to be recharged. Using our
first example; if you only plan to use a TV (4 amps), VCR (2 amps) and an overhead
fluorescent light (2 amps) for three hours a day (8 X 3 = 24 amp hours) you can
probably get by with a single 24 group, 80 amp hour deep cycle battery. On the other
hand if you plan to use 30 amps for 4 hours (30 X 4 = 120 amp hours) you need to
upgrade your battery system. This can be done, but itХs a whole other topic.

Last but definitely not least you need to consider that any battery power used has to be
put back in through some type of effective charging system. Batteries need to be
charged in three stages. The first stage is a bulk charge that replaces 80% of the battery
capacity very quickly. The second stage is the absorption stage that replaces the
remaining 20% and the last stage is the float stage which is a lower voltage designed to
keep the battery(s) topped off, but not overcharge them. Many RV converter / chargers
charge battery(s) at a fixed voltage in the range of 13.5 volts. This will not recharge
batteries that are discharged to 50% and it can be too much for a float charge for fully
charged batteries. Once you determine how much battery power you will be using you
can decide on an effective charging system. It may be that you only need to keep the
batteries topped off with the converter charger, or you might need a complete set of
solar panels to put back into your batteries what you are taking out. Again, this is a
whole other topic. I am including some typical amperage draws for appliances and
accessories commonly used in RVХs and some simple formulas to convert some
common electrical terms.

Wattage % Volts = Amps
Amps X Volts = Wattage

120 Volt AC Amp Ratings
Appliance or Electronic Equipment Estimated Amps
Air Conditioner (X number of A/C) 12-16 Amps
Blender 5-6 Amps
Coffee Maker 5-8 Amps
Compact Disc Player 1 Amp
Computer (Laptop) 2-3 Amps
Converter 1-6 Amps
Crock Pot 1-2 Amps
Curling Iron <1 Amp
Drill 2-6 Amps
Electric Blanket 0.5-1.5 Amps
Electric Fan 1 Amp
Electric Water Heater 9-13 Amps
Electric Skillet 6-12 Amps
Hair Dryer 5-12 Amps
Iron 5-10 Amps
Light (60 watt % 120V) <1 Amp
Microwave 8-13 Amps
Microwave (Convection Oven) 13 Amps
Refrigerator in AC mode 5-8 Amps
Space Heater 8-13 Amps
Television 1.5-4 Amps
Toaster 7-10 Amps
Vacuum (handheld) 2-6 Amps
VCR 1-2 Amps
Washer/Dryer 14-16Amps

12 Volt DC Amp Ratings
Appliance or Accessory Estimated Amps
Aisle Light 1 Amp
CO Detector 1 Amp
Fluorescent Light 1-2 Amps
Furnace 10-12 Amps
LP Gas Leak Detector 1 Amp
Overhead lights (Per Bulb) 1 Amp
Porch Light 1 Amp
Power Roof Vent 1.5 Amps
Radio/Stereo 4 Amps
Range Hood (Fan & Light) 2-3 Amps
Refrigerator (LP Gas Mode) 1.5- 2 Amps
Security System 1 Amp
Television (12 volt) 4-5 Amps
TV Antenna Booster <1 Amp
Variable Speed Ceiling / Vent Fan 4 Amps
VCR Recorder / Player 2 Amps
Water Pump 4 Amp

Mark Polk is the owner of RV Education 101. RV Education 101 is a North Carolina based
company that produces professional training videos, DVDs and e-books on how to use and
maintain your RV. Our goal is to make all of your RV experiences safe, fun and stress free.
www.rveducation101.com

BEDMAN

Bob and Susan - 3-10-2006 at 06:45 PM

Keri...bet you NEVER thought you'd need to know ALL this :biggrin:

Oh yea...that little charger that came with the rabbit won't do the job :lol:

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by Bob and Susan]

hair dryer blowouts....

Pompano - 3-10-2006 at 07:23 PM

Solar home woes......

Why do women need those hair dryers that use so dang much power?!! My wife has one capable of melting the polar ice cap in 20 minutes.

Hmmmm......maybe...nah, forget it. I can't bake worth a hoot.

Bajalero - 3-10-2006 at 08:29 PM

This turned out to be a good thread with lots of different opinions and experiences . (Pompano - thats a bad bad bad cartoon:lol

)

I just sold a very well used Honda 2200w generator that is going on 20 years old I think and still runs fine. Frankly I got tired of listening to it and have decided to buy a eu3000i for portable use . If you haven't been near one of these running ,you would be amazed at how quiet they are, plus I don't think you can beat the Hondas for reliability .

As was mentioned , Wisesales has some hard to beat prices . I comfimed by phone today several quotes and they were the least expensive that I've found. Shipping and sales tax free to the San Diego area . They do have a small $5-$10 "insurance " fee .

Here's what I'd really like to own but they're a little hard to come by in anything less than 3gigaW

http://www.sergioleone.net/dm-94.jpg

Lero

Bob and Susan - 3-11-2006 at 04:59 AM

:lol:

I want on too...."Back to the Future is one of the GREATS!!!
_________________________________________
Here is some trivia?.

For the movies, Mr. Fusion was made from a Krups coffee grinder.

Its name is a parody of the Mr. Coffee home coffee machine.

The name of the specific grinder used as the Mr. Fusion prop is the ?Cofina Coffee Grinder.

The power requirement mentioned in ?Back to the Future? is 1.21 "jigowatts".

The technical specialist used by the Back To The Future team incorrectly pronounced gigawatts as jigowatts, hence the cast followed suit.

Pompano - 3-11-2006 at 06:28 AM

=On an electrician's truck: "Let us remove your shorts."