surfer jim - 3-4-2006 at 07:48 PM
Went down to the TDS off road event near SALTON SEA this weekend and did more "testing" with my new truck...2005 Dodge 2500 4wd....same one used in
earlier post on 4wd....
Picked a small incline...about 15 feet high and flat on top...semi hard packed dirt but has been driven on so there is a loose surface.....but nothing
worse than we would find in a lot of BAJA roads.....results below....
First run....2 wd drive...45 psi tires....(BFG A/T)....up half way..
next ...same except 4wd high.....half way plus one foot....
next ...4 low....same results...
next ...4wd low....rear locker.....same..
next...4wd low...front and rear locker....same
next...lower T.P. to 35...get to top..barely...
next...tires to 30 psi... goes up O.K.. but nothing great..
next...22 T.P....up easy..
next...lockers off...4 low...up easy..
next ... 4 high...up easy...
finally ...2wd...half way only....
with lower pressure it may have gone all the way in 2wd....
Bruce R Leech - 3-4-2006 at 08:35 PM
this is some good test work. I have had both 4 and 2 wheel drive trucks and I think a 2 wheel is the better choice for most. less problems thousands
of dollars Less in price. and when you get stuck it is not as bad.
Ken Cooke - 3-5-2006 at 08:30 AM
With a Mud-Terrain tire, you will find that traction on these sorts of surfaces is yet easier.
2WD pickups are lighter, save fuel, etc. But, when you hit a patch of sand unexpectedly, you're a lot better off getting yourself out with a 4WD
truck - especially if you travel alone.
[Edited on 3-5-2006 by Ken Cooke]
David K - 3-5-2006 at 08:36 AM
Yes, the tire pressure makes all the difference in the world!
On Shell Island and other San Felipe area beaches... 2WD vehicles (even motor homes) are driven onto the beach with the tires lowered enough!
Whoaaaaaaa----"even motor homes"?????
Barry A. - 3-5-2006 at 08:44 AM
--------wow, I would really be careful with that one.
surfer jim - 3-5-2006 at 08:45 AM
I am glad for the 4wd....just for the reason Ken states....sometimes you just need it to get up or across certain sections of road...it is a "get
unstuck free" card to be used when needed....peace of mind......
I'm with Ken and Surfer Jim-------
Barry A. - 3-5-2006 at 09:15 AM
-----as one who drove a 2-wheel drive full-size pickup in Baja for over 20 years, I can tell you that the "peace of mind" accomplished with 4-wheel
drive is worth the extra money, and slightly harsher ride, ESPECIALLY when you are alone.
Besides, being able to go that last 1/4 mile to the beach after driving 250 miles to get there, is alone worth having 4-wheel drive.
I cannot tell you how much time and effort I have wasted getting my 2-wheel drive unstuck, when I could have been fishing, instead.
Viva 4-wheel drives!!!
Frank - 3-5-2006 at 10:04 AM
Dont forget to get one of these to air back up later. http://www.powertank.com/start.htm
Ive heard you can make your own from a welding supply place.
TMW - 3-5-2006 at 12:32 PM
Jim, I think you should talk to the dealer and give him your climbing results. Air pressure has a lot to do with traction but with a locker I would
think you would not have a problem getting up the hill. Did the truck feel like it was booging down, what was the RPM. Did you have a lot of wheel
spin or none at all. Some of the newer anti-lock brake and control systems will reduce engine rpm and/or independently apply braking to a spinning
wheel or shift to a higher gear. You may try this. At a hill similar to the one above, if you have a fuse for the brakes pull it (make sure your
brakes do work). In 4x4 H put it in 1st gear and climb the hill. Try it in drive. Do it again in 4x4 L and 2 H.
surfer jim - 3-5-2006 at 12:51 PM
TW...that is an interesting idea about the brakes....
What happens is when going up ...the truck will just go so far and then the wheels start shuttering and whole vehicle shakes...and you stop
moving...this is all below 10 mph and below 2000 rpm....
A friend went out to watch what is happening and says all the wheels will move slightly a few inches...stop...and move slightly again...this cycle
just repeats several times a second....vehicle shakes and basicly starts digging holes under the tires as it is not moving forward....
Diver - 3-5-2006 at 01:05 PM
Definitely sounds like an ABS problem.
Otherwise you should be able to pour on the rpm"s and spin all your drive wheels. Pull the fuse when you're off-road.
Ken Cooke - 3-5-2006 at 01:22 PM
Jim, Did you spy a ton of 4WDs out there yesterday in Truckhaven???
David K - 3-5-2006 at 07:56 PM
Jim, if I recall right your truck is a Chevy... I believe it uses the 'braking' type of lockers... I saw Hotschott's Chevy not be able to climb a
hill... None of my other friends have Chevy's, since friends don't let friends drive Chevrolet 
Seriously, the first day I had my newest Toyota I tried climbing a sand hill near La Bocana the way you did... 2WD, 4WD hi, low, and locked low.
The three 4WD modes all got to about the same point... slightly higher than the 2WD point.
I was not pushing it, as it was my NEW truck...
The only place where I feel the lockers makes a difference is uneven, rocky, steep grades (like Mision Santa Maria's widowmaker)... Sand/ loose
surface is all mastered by lowering the air pressure... along with WIDE, rounded sidewall tires. Lockers also helped turn the tires when stuck in sand
(from not lowering the air pressure enough)... but would not get the truck to float on top of the sand... just keep digging in at the same depth.
20 psi will get you through, but will tax the engine...
15 psi will feel a lot better and not let you feel like the truck will get stuck.
10 psi will get you unstuck, should it bury at 15 or 20 or more psi...
Barry, yes a BIG motorhome with BIG tires... The man is a Vista retired mason and his brother drives another moho out onto Shell Isalnd as well. I
have seen a Ford LTD out there with their moho group, as well...
Hotschott is also a witness to this!
Ken Cooke - 3-5-2006 at 08:33 PM
Here's what a fully locked vehicle running ARB Locking Differentials on the Widowmaker Grade looks like 
Just cut and paste in your web browser and you'll be amazed...
http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=sf2hxgu.5zbnoate&x=0...
[Edited on 3-6-2006 by Ken Cooke]
David K------------Motorhomes playing in the sand-----
Barry A. - 3-6-2006 at 12:15 AM
--------I never doubted your word.
I just wanted to point out that a motorhome that somebody committed to running in the sand (aired down tires, or not), better know what they are
doing, and even then it is a big risk. A vehicle that is that heavy, that gets stuck in the sand, is really a problem to get unstuck, as I know you
know. I have spent many an hour trying to WINCH out motorhomes in the Glamis dunes that were barely off the pavement, with mostly no luck. I have
seen many automatic transmissions "cooked". Almost all had to call out tow trucks to get out. In Baja, tow trucks are few and far between, and they
usually will not respond to anything very far off the pavement. At least that is my experience.
surfer jim - 3-6-2006 at 12:43 AM
The TDS event had every type 4wd that there is....and lots of them....saw some of the special built vehicles that climb sections nearly verticle and
even some "stock" looking jeeps and toyotas doing what looks to be impossible...
Neal Johns - 3-6-2006 at 11:04 AM
The first time I was at Shell Island, twenty something years ago, I was in an FJ-40 Land Cruiser and had my 33" Armstrong TruTrac's aired down to 15
lbs. and they were still slipping a lot in the dry sand. I look down the beach a half mile and saw a motorhome! I was afraid to go visit because I was
sure he was crazy!
(This does not mean David K. ALWAYS tells the truth).
David K - 3-6-2006 at 07:51 PM
Funny Neal!
I had gotten to know the motor home people from Vista, and in 1983 or so installed a drip irrigation system in their back yard just after I went self
employed the first time in the irrigation business.
Anyway, they are super nice people... Bob and Pat Hale... So, if you see a motor home on a bottomless sand beach and is not stuck... go say high and
get a lesson on how LOW AIR PRESSURE is what works in sand, far more than 4WD does.