BajaNomad - oso, about the chivas

oso, about the chivas

sylens - 3-5-2006 at 04:58 PM

why are they the chivas rayadas, and not the chivos rayados? i cannot understand how machos prefer girls to boys when it comes to the team name? :?:

enlightenment,
?por favor! :bounce:

Bruce R Leech - 3-5-2006 at 06:01 PM

Why do we name ships after woman?

Pompano - 3-5-2006 at 06:18 PM

Bruce....actually the Americans consider their ships/boats as women, while Russians, for example consider their's as male. Go figure. The custom of naming ships/boats female did not really take hold as a custom even in the US until around mid-1800's....I believe...

Bruce R Leech - 3-5-2006 at 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sylens
why are they the chivas rayadas, and not the chivos rayados? i cannot understand how machos prefer girls to boys when it comes to the team name? :?:

enlightenment,
?por favor! :bounce:

Mabey they are machas not machos. :lol:

vandenberg - 3-5-2006 at 09:09 PM

Chivas Rayadas???

Zebras ???

Oso - 3-6-2006 at 06:12 PM

?Porque las rosas se llaman rosas si son rojas?

Ah the vagaries of linguistic gender! In English we do not use gender for inantimate objects (exception ships, previously hurricanes etc.) that have no apparent biological gender. So, we get confused upon encountering this in other languages- "la mesa"???? We try to master this by relying on apparent "rules" such as "if it ends in 'o', it must be masculine". But, all rules have exceptions- "la mano, el mapa". Then we get really confused when names for animals and occupational titles - "el aguila, la modelo", do not meet our genitalia-centric expectations.

The answer to the question is I don't know.

But, I'm researching it and may have a clue. Sometimes nicknames stick even when meant by someone else to be derogatory. Case in point; the Yuma High Criminals. In Yuma's early developing years there was not yet a suitable building to house the new high school that was being established. The old Territorial Prison had been shut down and was empty, so classes were held in the old prison buildings while funds were raised to build the HS. Yuma defeated Phoenix in a football game and the losers voiced their sour grapes in reference to "those criminals from Yuma". It stuck. Recently, CBS did a bit on this. YHS students and alumni are very proud of their name and image. The mascot is a scar-faced thug and "crimwear" clothing, and "crimware" coffee mugs, license-plate frames, pennants etc are sold in the school store, known as "the cellblock".

Club Deportiva de Guadalajara is in it's 100th year, but the nickname didn't occur until 9/30/48 after a game in which they defeated Tampico 1-0. It was not a great game and the losers, again with sour grapes, said the red and white striped Guadalajara team "parecian chivas brinconas". Later, a sports page editor came up with the headline "Jugaron a las carreras y ganaron las 'Chivas'." It stuck.

[Edited on 3-7-2006 by Oso]

much?simas gracias, don oso

sylens - 3-7-2006 at 04:37 PM

i appreciate the time and effort to provide such a thorough and beautifully articulate response.

:wow:

jimgrms - 3-20-2006 at 06:44 AM

Bruce i spent 25 years in the navy never saw a ship named after a women, people name thier yatch's and fishing boats after thier wives and girlfriends.

[Edited on 3-20-2006 by jimgrms]

turtleandtoad - 3-20-2006 at 09:27 AM

Ships may not be named after women but most US sailors (civilian and military) refer to their vessel in a gender specific manner; such as "she" and "her".

And that's from 23 years in the Navy/Coast Guard and 20 years of being the owner/operator of a commercial fishing vessel. She was a 50' troller named Snowbird, and worked out of Neah Bay WA. Her new owner sails her out of Cordova, AK.

Boat Name Trivia Question.....

Pompano - 3-20-2006 at 09:38 AM

On genders and such........What was the name of the first 'official' US Navy ship?

Also, there was a USN ship called 'Medusa'...female and very deadly.

Oso - 3-20-2006 at 06:25 PM

This thread is going way off "Spanish", but I'm going to hazard a guess:

U.S.S. Constitution, aka "Old Iron Sides".

Ken Bondy - 3-20-2006 at 06:57 PM

A really funny incident happened in LA relating to Spanish language gender a few years ago when the then Pope made a visit. Recognizing the large spanish-speaking population, almost universallly Catholic, a t-shirt company hoped to profit by printing 300,000 t-shirts commemorating the visit. The t-shirts said "Yo vi la papa", which of course means "I saw the potato", instead of "I saw the Pope". Should have been "Yo vi el papa". Very few sold.

++Ken++

bajabound2005 - 3-20-2006 at 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimgrms
people name thier yatch's and fishing boats after thier wives and girlfriends.

What exacly is a yatch? Do you mean yacht.?..and if so it would be yachts (for the plural) not yacht's, which means something that belongs to the yacht. And yes, I'm being picky as our language needs to be saved! Oh, while I'm at it, that would their yachts and their wives, not thier....so there!

Should we start a whole new topic on Language Police?

Back to the topic, sometimes, especially those where Spanish is their first language but are not literate in Spanish -- they make the nouns feminine or masculine at their whim. My cat is female and my American born, first language was Spanish friend calls her gata, but cat is gato. Our female dogs, she calls perras, even though dog is perro.

turtleandtoad - 3-20-2006 at 07:09 PM

Although the Constitution is the oldest commisioned vessel in the U.S. Navy, I believe Pompano might be refering to the Hannah. She was built with Continental Congress's funds and commissioned in Sept, 1775.

However, even though the navy was in existance in fact, it wasn't in name until October 13, 1775. Before then the ships sailed under the orders of General Washington, an ARMY officer.

1st named US Navy ship.....male/female gender...naming of ships, etc

Pompano - 3-21-2006 at 05:59 AM

The Navy traces its ancestry to 13 October 1775, when an act of the Continental Congress authorized the first ship of a new navy for the United Colonies, as they were then known. The ships of the Continental Navy, and of the Navy later established under the Federal Constitution, were not named in any strictly categorical manner.

Ship names in the Continental Navy and the early Federal navy came from a variety of sources. As if to emphasize the ties that many Americans still felt to Britain, the first ship of the new Continental Navy was named "ALFRED" in honor of Alfred the Great, the king of Wessex who is credited with building the first English naval force. In the ensueing conflict with English warships, many ALFRED sailors were heard to be muttering, "what's it all about..Alfie?"

Another ship was named Raleigh to commemorate the seagoing exploits of Sir Walter Raleigh, who was responsible for the increase in dry-cleaning establishments.

[Edited on 3-21-2006 by Pompano]

Bob and Susan - 3-21-2006 at 06:16 AM

"Bruce i spent 25 years in the navy never saw a ship named after a women"

________________________________________________
Harbor tug Pocahontas 1942, was named for Pocahontas.

USS Victoria (ex- USS George G. Henry )

Commissioned in 1942:

USS Dorothea L. Dix named for Dorothea Dix
USS Elizabeth C. Stanton named for Elizabeth C. Stanton
USS Florence Nightingale named for Florence Nightingale
USS Lyon named for Mary Lyon
USS Susan B. Anthony named for Susan B. Anthony

Pompano - 3-21-2006 at 06:32 AM

ship = 100 feet or more
boat = less than 100 feet (or common use for any length submarine)

Getting a little anal in here?

jimgrms - 3-21-2006 at 07:01 AM

Folks all i said was i neverheard of a navy ship named after a female ,i am old ,but i wasn,t around in the 1700's

[Edited on 3-21-2006 by jimgrms]

Bob and Susan - 3-21-2006 at 07:18 AM

you didn't know pocohantas :lol:

[Edited on 3-21-2006 by Bob and Susan]

turtleandtoad - 3-21-2006 at 07:25 AM

On this forum, you never say Never. :biggrin:

Bob and Susan - 3-21-2006 at 07:29 AM

TT

Steve and Jan are in the middle of the SEA!!!

http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3068

turtleandtoad - 3-21-2006 at 07:59 AM

Wow, a sea-going RV! I gotta get one of those.

Actually, what a lot of non-users don't realize is that you have to enter your coordinates manually to show up on the map. I think someone goofed a little!

Dave - 3-21-2006 at 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ken Bondy
A really funny incident happened in LA relating to Spanish language gender a few years ago when the then Pope made a visit. Recognizing the large spanish-speaking population, almost universallly Catholic, a t-shirt company hoped to profit by printing 300,000 t-shirts commemorating the visit. The t-shirts said "Yo vi la papa", which of course means "I saw the potato", instead of "I saw the Pope". Should have been "Yo vi el papa". Very few sold.

++Ken++

I'd kill for one of those. Wonder if you could still find 'em?