BajaNomad

Costly mistake

JSchuricht - 3-10-2006 at 08:44 PM

I just made an extremely costly mistake while attempting to cross into Baja. I managed to get into the wrong lane and ended up going through the non-declaration lane with goods destined for my house. Long story short, I was alleviated of a 1.2m satellite dish, BBQ, 6x 425lb batteries, 6x 85w PV modules, hand cart, an upgraded control board for my MX60 charge controller and $927. I had receipts showing the goods at about $1100, but am actually out about 10x that. :(

I am not overly optimistic that I will ever see any of the goods again, but would appreciate any advice that anyone has.

bajalou - 3-10-2006 at 08:52 PM

Feel fortunate that you still have your vehicle. Also that the smuggling was into Mexico. The US Customs might not be that lenient if you're caught smuggeling into the USA.

comitan - 3-10-2006 at 08:54 PM

Been there done that you will not receive the goods back, cost me 2,000 us to get my car back at Otay Mesa, We actually came through witjh 2 cars my wife was the smuggler, about 3 years later an official came by our house vindicatimg her but never rec'd the goods.

Dave - 3-10-2006 at 09:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JSchuricht
I had receipts showing the goods at about $1100, but am actually out about 10x that. :(


That's probably why you didn't get off with just paying duties + fines.

Contrary to popular belief, these guys aren't stupid. They know what stuff costs.

What the heck?

Gypsy Jan - 3-10-2006 at 09:06 PM

Please report about this episode in a more specific and detailed way that doesn't scare people.

We have hauled all kinds of household goods and critters (with vet certificates) down to Baja without challenge (everything fitted into the SUV).

When we hauled a trailer down, to the San Ysidro crossing, we were redirected to Otay, did the paperwork and continued on home.

Tell me why your items were taken away.

bajalou - 3-10-2006 at 09:10 PM

He did - he was in the "Nothing to Declare" lane.

Those cute little critters

Dave - 3-10-2006 at 09:14 PM

I know why but please tell thems that don't.
Quote:
Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
We have hauled all kinds of household goods and critters (with vet certificates) down to Baja without challenge (everything fitted into the SUV).

bajajudy - 3-10-2006 at 09:26 PM

I believe that solar batteries are duty free....good luck with that
Your experience should be a fair warning to people. As Lou said be thankful that you were not going into the US. Would you have attempted that.
By mistake in the wrong lane...I would have said that same thing.
Thanks for this information and it should scare people...read the rules...the size of your vehicle doesnt matter if you get called into revision....
Truly sorry for your troubles but you have done everyone a favor by reporting this.:!:

ursidae69 - 3-10-2006 at 09:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou
He did - he was in the "Nothing to Declare" lane.


Does a truck load of camping gear for a 2 week trip require any declaration? Never have in the past. :?:

Gypsy Jan - 3-10-2006 at 09:38 PM

OK, thank you, Dave, I am happy to entertain you, if I do, I appreciate your wit,

but, seriously, BajaLou,

We drove down the San Ysidro "Nothing to Declare" lane with a very loaded trailer of household goods and they simply redirected us to Otay.

There was no bullying or confiscation.

bajalou - 3-10-2006 at 09:52 PM

Gypsy Jan, I think you were fortunate that they sent you to Otay.

ursidae69 - a tourist is allowed to bring "camping equipement" for his stay, and it it all supposed to be taken back when he returns to USA.

If you're in the "Autodeclare" lane, you can return if you don't like the duty etc. Often they will just wave you through there if you don't have enough stuff for them to bother with.

bajalera - 3-10-2006 at 11:03 PM

You have my sympathy JS--the Declaration lane can be really hard to nudge your way into--we were barely able to get over to it in coming south last week. Based on stuff other Nomads had posted, I wanted to declare a cheapo [$79] TV set but had misplaced the receipt.

The inspector kept asking was it thin, how large, etc., and said he'd have to see it. Steve kept muttering things I was glad I couldn't hear as he dug it out of the bottom of the boat we were towing, and the inspector looked, saw it was rinky-dink and waved us on our way.

All this took so long that he never got around to asking about any of the stuff in the 4Runner, which was loaded to the roof.

A moment!

Baja Bernie - 3-11-2006 at 08:40 AM

All I can say is perhaps things are changing, but people don't and those ARE smart people at the border and they do not like to have people try to make fools of them.

Forty plus years of carefully caring for goods as I crossed that border with nary a problem. To much all at once is not good.

bajajudy - 3-11-2006 at 09:00 AM

Pompano
Is there really anything that he can do.

I reread my previous post and it sounded like I had no sympathy for the guy which couldnt be farther from the truth. I went through one time in our long bed crew cab GMC (loaded) and totally forgot to go over to the right. Got the green light and could not get out of there fast enough...ergo "I would have said the same thing"!

JS-Let us know what happens, please.

bajalou - 3-11-2006 at 09:23 AM

I would have been more sympathetic had you not said "I had receipts showing the goods at about $1100, but am actually out about 10x that."

That tells me that you were planning to scam the Mex customs right from the start and it wasn't a "Simple mistake"

It might work much of the time, but as you can see not allways.

Bob and Susan - 3-11-2006 at 10:26 AM

sorry to be cynical but....

i don't think tis happened...

the border guys would rather have the money and for sure the truck.

Bob and Susan - 3-11-2006 at 10:27 AM

trooolll...

JZ - 3-11-2006 at 10:31 AM

"trooolll..."

I don't think this is a subject to be joking around on...

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by JZ]

vandenberg - 3-11-2006 at 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
sorry to be cynical but....

i don't think tis happened...

the border guys would rather have the money and for sure the truck.




Had me kind of wondering also :O:O:O

comitan - 3-11-2006 at 10:37 AM

By the way when this happened to me I had to go to Otay Mesa to get the paper work done and pay the fine, the fine was payed to the bank, the money went to the Government and 90% of the stuff I was carrying wasn't mine.

Bob and Susan - 3-11-2006 at 10:58 AM

I changed my mind....:biggrin:

maybe it did happen....

at least the guy is REAL...and he did have problems with his solar system.

I'll sure be doing things correctly.:lol:

JSchuricht - 3-11-2006 at 11:10 AM

Wow I am quite impressed with all the replies so quickly.

Comitan, Did the official that visited you do so at your Baja home or in the US?

Dave, They only questioned the batteries, thinking that they should have cost double, but never pressed the issue.

Gypsy Jan, More details are on the way. I have participated in hauling many household items down in the past and this was the first challenge I have ever had.

Bajajudy, I had also heard that solar equipment was duty free but am doubtful of that now.

Pompano, any help would be greatly appreciated. I do not have any FM status yet; I do have a house in Baja, no utilities or taxes thou.

Details?
3/10/06 ~6AM arrived at Tecate border crossing. Got a red light as did every car that came after me for at least an hour while we pulled stuff out of the truck. After an hour of customs officers digging through our stuff we were allowed to reload everything. Then customs official drove the truck over to the loading dock (first right after passing through the gates) to pull everything out of the truck again. I was traveling with my father, who had taken the first driving shift, so he was taken inside to talk to some lawyers while I stayed behind, ultimately un-securing the batteries for the workers who could not figure out how to get them out.

After I had everything unbolted, I met up with my father who was waiting in a near by building. We ended up waiting until about 3:30 with intermittent conversations with the attorney until they took us over to a warehouse across the street. They allowed us to load everything they did not want and let us go.

Yes, this did happen. I wish they had taken the truck instead of the goods. The customs agent that we talked to first declined to accept the penalty payment directly stating that he was up for re-election. As for scamming the Mexican customs, that is more or less something that I wanted to avoid. The house is in Punta Chivato and it takes about 12hrs from San Diego. I prefer to keep delays to a minimum and already dump a lot of money into the local community. As for proof that I am real and this did happen, I can point you to a basic website I have about my solar system. http://solar.schurichtfamily.com/

oladulce - 3-11-2006 at 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajajudy
I believe that solar batteries are duty free....


Learned some new Importation info this week when we contacted a broker about an upcoming load we'll be transporting in.

If you combine all of the components of your Solar power setup in to one "System", you don't pay the Import duty of 17%. Instead you pay 10% IVA tax on the entire system.

On our last trip we brought a couple of solar panels in thru San Ysidro and paid 17% . I'm not sure if San Ysidro Aduana is set up to calculate the exceptions and variations in Import laws- it might be an Otay thing. We didn't know the difference and the man at the card table didn't offer to lower our tax.

The broker said he'll need the original "Invoices" for the items or he'll use the website of the vendor to gather the retail prices. "No receipts" he said, "invoices only". You send him all the info in advance and he'll itemize and price out the load and have the paperwork ready when he meets you at the border. He answered a question I've always had which was "can this all be done at San Ysidro?". The answer was No, we have to go to Otay Mesa. He guides you through the customs inspection and for these services, he tacks on 5% of the value of your load. If you pay the 10% IVA tax on solar equip and then use a broker + 5%, you're back up to 15% .

Something new to me was if your load exceeds $5000 dollars in value, you must use the commercial lane at Otay Mesa. Once your load is deemed "commercial", every single item you are transporting from your surfboard to your toothpaste will be itemized and you'll be liable for the Import duty on all items. This broker stated that there is no "tourist allowance" when you have a "commercial" load. Someone has probably posted this info before but it was never in my "realm of possibilites" til now.

One way around this, the broker suggested, since our total load will be over $5000 we can meet him at his wharehouse and divide the load so that neither vehicle goes over the $5000 limit. My husband will drive our truck and trailer and I can ride with the broker. I tend to be a "pelonita" and have been stubborn about paying the broker's fees but the horror stories have convinced me that it'll be worth it for the Importation of this big load we have coming up.

Thank you for posting. Mr oladulce will sleep better now.

[Edited on 3-11-2006 by oladulce]

comitan - 3-11-2006 at 11:40 AM

JS It looks like you got off fairly easy, they impounded my car, the money was to get my car back, They came with a release paper here at my home in La Paz. I don't think your predicament went that far.

JSchuricht - 3-11-2006 at 11:44 AM

They were holding the truck until I paid.

Bob and Susan - 3-11-2006 at 11:52 AM

if you have a house you have taxes....

they don't mail them you have to go pay....

you better check....

bancoduo - 3-11-2006 at 01:24 PM

What happened to the mordida. Sounds like all the officials are honest hard working. I guess things have changed. Good to know.:?:

Mordida isn't Dead Yet-Thank God !

MrBillM - 3-11-2006 at 02:18 PM

I think it's just that these rather flagrant abuses are too much for the officials to ignore. I try to go through with articles and amounts that are reasonable and negotiable. Whenever I decide to bring in some significant items, I always create Invoices and pull through the Declaracion Line.

Costly Mistake

awfulart - 3-11-2006 at 02:44 PM

How does one produce a legitimate receipt on a household item that is quite old. Sound like one must manufacture receipts in order to comply.

It does appear to me though that the Mexican Government does not want to do anything to encourage Americanos to retire in Mexico. Or, I guess you sell everything and buy a place already furnished.

Costly Mistake

awfulart - 3-11-2006 at 05:04 PM

I did forget about the one time freebee. Is that a one time freebee for husband and sparate one time freebee for wife and does it all have to be done at once by both and how do they keep track?

Bob and Susan - 3-11-2006 at 05:32 PM

It tied to the fm3...and you must move the stuff within 6 months

husband once....wife next..........

We're getting rid of our old stuff and buying nre....can't take it with you:lol:

Bob and Susan - 3-11-2006 at 06:47 PM

Thank you John for sharing this horrible experience with us...

oladulce - 3-11-2006 at 06:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano
I just recently had 16 solar batteries brought through the San Ysidro/Tiijuana border and paid the correct and enforced import duty on them. They were not exempt from import taxes.


Now I'm really confuso. I thought you could only bring in up to $1000 dollars in goods per person through San Ysidro, and if over that amount would be redirected to Otay and require a broker.

Did you utilize an import broker Pompano?

So Okay!

Baja Bernie - 3-11-2006 at 07:41 PM

I used to have to go to lunch, once a month, with Mexican Customs guys. They used to really laugh at the things Americans did to get around import laws that only existed in their minds. They, in those days, were more than happy to make the gringos think that they had beat the system by accepting just a little bite (mordido) from the silly folks.

Have things changed so much--I think not!

bajalou - 3-11-2006 at 08:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oladulce


Now I'm really confuso. I thought you could only bring in up to $1000 dollars in goods per person through San Ysidro, and if over that amount would be redirected to Otay and require a broker.

Did you utilize an import broker Pompano?


16 golf cart batteries is under $1000.

synch - 4-24-2006 at 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JSchuricht
They were holding the truck until I paid.


That explains it

Are the import duties on 'new' stuff...

neilm - 4-24-2006 at 04:23 PM

only, or do they apply to used hardware, too?

Neil

Dave - 4-24-2006 at 05:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob and Susan
It tied to the fm3...and you must move the stuff within 6 months

husband once....wife next..........


Nope. Share the same last name and address it's once. Many try and some get away with it but it ain't legal.

tippytoestrish - 4-24-2006 at 06:53 PM

ok, now I'm really wondering about the rules for what we can take and what we could get into trouble for? Is there a list of stuff we shouldn't be bringing down for our 3 month stay? I only remember airplane rides mostly, and any of our baggage that was searched never seemed to get us into trouble. any links for lists? thanks!:?:

David K - 4-24-2006 at 06:58 PM

Don't bring desk top computers, ranges, refrigerators, big TV's, etc... You know, stuff they think is going to a house in Mexico to stay.

All things a vacationing tourist will need/ use during a brief stay in Mexico is okay.

Roberto - 4-24-2006 at 07:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tippytoestrish
ok, now I'm really wondering about the rules for what we can take and what we could get into trouble for? Is there a list of stuff we shouldn't be bringing down for our 3 month stay? I only remember airplane rides mostly, and any of our baggage that was searched never seemed to get us into trouble. any links for lists? thanks!:?:


Just curious, does "1.2m satellite dish, BBQ, 6x 425lb batteries, 6x 85w PV modules, hand cart, an upgraded control board for my MX60 charge controller and $927", sound like something you would bring down for a "trip"?

As the man, stated, he was bringing down things for his house. Expensive things. The Mexican government expects you to pay duty for things you bring down to equip your house. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

rts551 - 4-24-2006 at 08:02 PM

Hmmmmm ... What if the made it a Felony to break the law bringing in too much stuff South.

Interesting. How many of us would now be in Prison. Maybe we should respect their laws as we expect them to obey ours.

bajalou - 4-24-2006 at 08:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rts551
Hmmmmm ... Maybe we should respect their laws as we expect them to obey ours.


Great thought

Bruce R Leech - 4-25-2006 at 07:39 AM

some times some of you people crack me up. :biggrin:you want to have a home in Mexico but you don't want to buy anything in Mexico:(. you think you can save a buck and sneak everything across the border.:P well if you play the criminal game you will pay the consequences:light:JSchuricht most of the things on your list could have been purchased right here in Baja Ca.:moon:

but thank you for posting this thread , hopefully you will help to encourage others to try to understand the Mexican law and to be better gusts in there country.

Importing vs Buying Local

MrBillM - 4-25-2006 at 09:54 AM

I've noticed that the strong opinions regarding local purchases tend to come from those who live far enough South that purchasing in the U.S. and transporting the goods is not usually a feasible option. I wonder how many of those expressing that opinion would hold to it if their lives involved regular trips to El Norte. Since I travel North at least once each month I do, of course, purchase a great deal of my goods in the U.S., especially those items (electronics, gensets, etc) that might require warranty work at some time. Unlike many who "smuggle" goods South, however, I have learned over time that the best course of action is to be prepared to declare any items subject to duty, usually with my own "Facturas".

It is relatively easy to be sanctimonious about foreign purchases when you really have no other viable option. As I've noted before, MANY Mexican residents over the years have asked me to pick up items in the U.S. because of price or availability. So much for buying local.

Since I usually spend around $500 or more each month in addition to my real estate costs, I'm not concerned that I don't do enough to support the local economy.

Who Says Mexicans Are Not Terrific Problem Solvers???

BCSTech - 5-1-2006 at 05:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PompanoNow I'm really confuso. I thought you could only bring in up to $1000 dollars in goods per person through San Ysidro, and if over that amount would be redirected to Otay and require a broker.
That's what I found out after being turned away at TJ on a Sunday morning with declared $3,000 worth of stuff. Drove to Otay, only to hear the Border Agent there tell me that the Customs brokers don't work on Sundays. :O

What did the Agent do? Said he would write out three tax receipts for $1,000 declared value each. Managed to write two receipts before some people walked in. Looked at me, looked at them, looked back at me and said, "OK, well, that'll do." Paid my $340, and was so glad to be outta there. :bounce:

Now where do you suppose half/all that $340 went? Hmmm... Naw, can't happen here... :?:

bajalera - 5-2-2006 at 03:13 PM

Mexicans don't seem to feel obligated to buy electronics and other pricey goods at home. On flights from TJ to La Paz, a strange assortment of bought-in-gringolandia stuff often makes the rounds on the luggage carrier at LP, and is carted off by local people.

[Edited on 5-2-2006 by bajalera]

bajabound2005 - 5-2-2006 at 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
Don't bring desk top computers, ranges, refrigerators, big TV's, etc... You know, stuff they think is going to a house in Mexico to stay.

All things a vacationing tourist will need/ use during a brief stay in Mexico is okay.


Dave -- do we go to the Declare Lane with this stuff or Nothing to Declare? We, too are headed down later this month for a 3 1/2 month stay in a house we are going to rent for that period of time. It's furnished but not with the creature comforts we so come to enjoy. We'll be hauling a small 4x6 enclosed cargo trailer. Your advice?

[Edited on 5-2-2006 by bajabound2005]

bajalou - 5-2-2006 at 03:47 PM

Declare - with the trailer is almost a guarantee for secondary.

A Lot of Laughs !

MrBillM - 5-2-2006 at 04:47 PM

I guess that Bruce laughs a lot at all of those Mexicans that I and everybody else seems to know that buy in the U.S. and try to avoid paying Mexican duty. Talk about a lack of patriotism on their part. Remember the EXIT signs at the border that were basically BEGGING the Mexicans to stay home and patronize their local businesses. That must have been good for a lot of guffaws.

As for us Gringos, it is a part of our heritage to avoid onerous taxation. Our revolution was founded on our distaste for unreasonable taxation, with or without representation, which we surely don't have in Mexico.

comitan - 5-2-2006 at 05:02 PM

Bruce

How is the Mexican Pastrami?:lol:

bajabound2005 - 5-2-2006 at 05:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bajalou
Declare - with the trailer is almost a guarantee for secondary.


BajaLou - We never gone through the Declare lane, could you give us a preview of what to expect? Are we just "declaring" that we have it and are bringing it back with us in September or will we be expected to pay duty on it? We went through the Nothing to Declare in September when we went with no repercussions.

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by bajabound2005]

Arrowheadbaja - 5-2-2006 at 06:35 PM

to declare or not to declare, that is the question.

bajabound2005 - 5-2-2006 at 08:09 PM

What we are talking about bringing - as necessities - cookware, BBQ, bed and bath linens, our laptop & webcam - all of which will come back with us. Let the discussion begin!!

Reeljob - 5-4-2006 at 08:26 AM

Well, first, THANKS to all Nomads for the wealth of information on taking car to CSL, full of household stuff, Insurance, border crossing etc, etc. All went very well.

I am soooo glad that I got the car to CSL & can now force myself to fire up the plane for future trips. My wife is looking for a Tshirt that says "I survived Mexico 1".

Did what was advised, crossed at San Ysidro at daylight (almost), stayed in "Declare" lane, had to wake up the officer who took a cursery look at all the Kitchen stuff, Bedding, Towels, appliances etc. Said go ahead, went back to his bench. Wife ran over to Bancomer window, beat on it to wake up the agent, pd for Her FMT & away we went.

Never got stopped at any of the military checkpoints.

I would compare Mexico 1 with Highway 74 from Palm Desert to Idywild, without shoulders and many, many large trucks and busses going way over the speed limit and way over what comon sense should dictate.

Again, THANKS to all nomads who offerred good advice.

bajalou - 5-4-2006 at 08:43 AM

Bajabound, I think Durango's experience is the most common one wether early morning or during the day for customs - If it's obviously camping and used household stuff probably just wave you through.

As has been said before - a big advantage of coming thru the Declare lane is that if you can't come to agreement on duty etc on your stuff, you can return to US and try it again later. If you get pulled over in the "Nothing to Declare" lane, you're stuck there - no return and no second chance

[Edited on 5-4-2006 by bajalou]

wornout - 5-4-2006 at 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BCSTech
Quote:
Originally posted by Pompano

OK, well, that'll do." Paid my $340, and was so glad to be outta there. :bounce:

Now where do you suppose half/all that $340 went? Hmmm... Naw, can't happen here... :?:


Well, I will tell you where it went, it went into the local Baja economy. If you had gone to the bank, filled out the forms, paid and received a receipt, the money would have left Baja and ended up in Mexico City where all Federal collected money goes and then most of it disappears (Just like in the old country). Now, don't you feel better?

BCSTech - 5-4-2006 at 11:20 AM

Yes, I do!