Anyone catch the Saturday L.A. Times article re: Escalera Nautica? Fonatura made an announcement in Mexico City that their marina development plan
was approved and back in development. Was I just having a bad dream? I fail to see how any re-cooking of the books will get the projected numbers of
boaters using the marinas to make the project financially viable...to anyone but the contractors and developers.
[Edited on 11-10-2003 by strgnff]Skeet/Loreto - 11-10-2003 at 09:53 AM
There was a simailiar not so newsworthy Article in the Fresno Bee.
Do not be to concerned it is a typical Mexicano Project which will take place many years from now{Except if there is a Terror Attack in LA} then you
will see a mass movedment to BajaSkeet/Loreto Natalie Ann - 11-10-2003 at 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
{Except if there is a Terror Attack in LA} then you will see a mass movedment to Baja
...and we do pray that neither happens!
Mass movement to Baja
Ski Baja - 11-10-2003 at 10:15 AM
The Escalera Nautica will do far less damage than major development has. Such as the Nopolo project, what has happened in Cabo San Lucas and what is
not so gradually working it's way up the coastline.
Do you guys really think that because there's a certain amount of boats registered in the U.S. that they are going to come here because of more
Marinas ?
Maybe a few but a very insignificant amount compared to what's already happening here. Marina prices are just as high if not higher than the states.
The news says that the fish are all gone from the Sea of Cortez and if you want to look at development rather than a pristine coastline, go to Dana
Point, it's much closer.Skeet/Loreto - 11-10-2003 at 10:27 AM
J. R. "News says" Do you also do not accept facts. Where are the facts about "No Fish in the Sea", thats like says there are no Rattlesnakes on the
road to Tambabechie!!I do not hold out much hope that we do not have more attacks on the U.S. .
Keep on fishin Loreto. Its the best in the World!Skeet/Loreto
Makin a point
Ski Baja - 11-10-2003 at 01:41 PM
Skeet, I was just trying to make a point regarding the nonsensical news. As far as fish and life in the Sea of Cortez, why , there hasn't been a fish
in that Sea for years so yall might as well stay home if that's what yer comin fer. Ain't nuthin else here either! But I hear Yellowstone is nice
this time of year. Yall kin catch fish there too !
Rattlesnakes in Baja, HA ! Just about every three feet where them nosy friggen "researchers" are pokin around. Hope it adds to their story and
collections.gerrydwhite - 11-10-2003 at 03:33 PM
I don't have a lot of history of fishing in the Sea of Cortez, but the last time I went out of La Paz there were plenty of fish.strgnff - 11-11-2003 at 09:45 AM
And this relates to Escalara Nautica...how? I guess the Escalera Nuttyca is pretty talked out. Nobody in there right mind would favor a high intensity
development like a hotel/marina/golf course on a remote pristine coast like say Punta Canoas, unless you are a well connected Mexican
developer/politico who can do some serious self dealing under the pompous and transparent guise of "economic development and job creation." I hope it
doesn't happen. Skeet/Loreto - 11-11-2003 at 09:59 AM
FACT; Yes it is a fact that the Japanese were overfishing the Sea of Cortez.I sa this with my own eyes nearly25 years ago. They were using a 5Ft. Dia.
Tube to suck up the fish on the other side of Carmen Island. They were caught leacving and forces into La Paz where they were fined $75,000 and their
Catch of all kinds of fish taken and send to the poor people of Mexico City.
The next year I went to the very spot and caught and caught all Species of Fish,The very same area has some of the largest Calms I have ever
seen.Another spot where the Ship fished is the present location of one of the best places used by Snokerlers out of Loret. Why ? Because of the fish
Life!!!BajaNomad - 11-11-2003 at 10:37 AM
Administrative note:
Some of the posts in this thread were moved to the "off-topic" forum, under "Tit for Tat."
No se precoupen....o precoupen?
flyfishinPam - 11-12-2003 at 12:51 PM
I have been corresponding with the editor of "International Yacht and Charter" magazine on providing some editorial material. After nailing down the
specifics, text length, photo quality, etc. I asked a simple question:
"Have you ever heard of the Escalarea Nautica project? What are your thoughts on it, just curious."
This was the reply:
"Sorry--I never heard of this project..."
Jamie Murtsow
International Yacht Vacations and Charters Magazine
Below their link announcing the magazine at the Ft. Lauderdale Boat Show
...So if this guy's never heard of Escalera Nautica, then who exactly is supposed to be using it?
I am also in agreement that the fact the powers that be are counting on vast sums of private investment will be the demise of the project. Too bad
they've already ruined the Canyon on the Boojums with their two mile road in the middle of nowhere and Santa Rosalillita.
The planning for the Escalera sounds a lot like the research that resulted in those big white-elephant hotels planted along Highway One, which were
supposed to appeal to droves of Gringo tourists.
The suits in Mexico D.F. do not have a clue as to what bajaficionadas want in the way of accommodations.
[Edited on 11-15-2003 by bajalera]
The suits in Mexico may not know what you want,
Stephanie Jackter - 11-16-2003 at 12:17 AM
but they have a real good idea of what they want. From what I understand, one of the long standing fringe benefits of acquiring the presidency in
Mexico is you get to own your own brand new tourist town. Looks like Fox might get his hands into four or five of them. I've forgotten which
presidents were the exact beneficiaries of which new development, but many developments like Cancun (Echeveria's baby, I believe), were developed as
the ultimate payoff to Mexican presidents and their families and cronies. Zihatenejo was another presidents dream as well as Acapulco. I think the
one that killed his brother (I'm having a senior moment. Can't think of his name to save my soul), is Merida's "patron". The list goes on.
Being that only one out of every ten dollars that a State sends to Mexico City ever comes back in the form of Federal dollars, I see no reason to
believe that they have any incentive to look for the opinions of the people of the peninsula before they rape them further with these developments.
It's one of those "give and give" situations. - Stephanie
escalera
estrella de mar - 11-16-2003 at 10:49 AM
we may or may not need to worry about emmediate impacts from such a project, whether or not it is completed. what we (those of us that believe in
sound conservation efforts and proactive environmental policies) should think about is changing the mindset that considers the environment to be an
unlimited and sustainable resource. to toss away concerns because of historic behavior may not be the best move. and for those of us armchair
scientists, i think it improper to make a judgement on the quality of any given ecosystem based off of observations like 'i've been there and there
were plenty of fish.'
estrella de mar
Armchair scientists
Ski Baja - 11-16-2003 at 12:03 PM
I think that these type of scientists (armchair) realize that Mother Nature has a way of healing herself without any of our meddling. Knowledge is a
wonderful thing and education even better. But until we as "Western Civilation" and I use the term loosely, realize what many others already know
about the planet, we are spinning our wheels.
A good start would be to realize that humanity and life on this planet, in it's entirety, is more important than $$$.
And as far as the fishing goes, for those concerned with protecting Baja waters, why don't you start with doing something about the 75 to 100
american sportfishing boats I see in front of my house every time the fish are running.
Again I state, your own yards are a great starting point for your efforts on cleaning up the planet.
Mexico accused of passing death sentence on ecosystem in its American backyard
A tourism mega-project that environmentalists fear will lead to disaster for more than 1,000 miles of pristine coastline has won the initial approval
of Mexico's environmental authorities.
The Escalera Nautica, or Nautical Ladder, aims to attract wealthy American tourists with expensive boats and a free-spending spirit to a chain of 27
marinas around the perimeter of the Baja California peninsula and down the main Mexican coast.
Visitors would be able to relax in the recognisable surroundings of their decks and marvel at the stark beauty of the Mexican desert landscape and the
waters packed with wildlife.
Their sense of comfortable familiarity would not end when they stepped ashore, however; that is because in the past decade Californians have bought
swaths of the coastline, turning Baja into an American backyard.
But Mexican nationalism hardly figures in local objections to the Escalera Nautica, which focus on the fragility of the ecosystems in and around the
800-mile peninsula in the Pacific, cradling the Sea of Cortes, or Gulf of California.
There are five protected areas here, all of which could be damaged by the national tourism fund-sponsored project, environmentalists say.
The construction of the marinas is due to begin next year and be completed by 2015. Last week's approval by the environment ministry requires the
builders to include measures to "prevent, mitigate and/or compensate for" any negative impact on the environment.
The activists - long accustomed to what they say is Mexico's cavalier attitude to environmental regulations - believe that sounds more like a
suggestion than an order.
Their concerns are as varied as the project is vast. Maria Elena Martinez of the Baja-based Isla campaign group is particularly worried about a marina
at Santa Rosalia, near the peninsula's only oasis, as well as the fate of the endemic species on the 900 islands in the Sea of Cortes.
Serge Dedina of the California-based Wildcoast conservation group fears for the sea turtle feeding grounds at Bahia de los Angeles, a bay on Sea of
Cortes where whale sharks up to 12 metres long also converge to eat plankton.
The poet and veteran Mexico City environmentalist Homero Aridjis sees a threat to the migration routes of the region's grey whales. They all fear that
the marinas will provoke rampant land speculation and uncontrolled development.
Baja, they say, has retained its wild purity precisely because of its isolation and the limited water supplies which have kept all but a few
developments relatively small, and the population tiny.
To cover it with roads could cause irreparable environmental damage and destroy the smaller-scale local eco-tourism and fishing economies.
"The Escalera Nautica could condemn the ecosystem to death - not tomorrow, but little by little," says Mr Aridjis, who was a leading light in a
campaign three years ago that stopped the construction of an industrial salt plant next to the whales' main nursery.
The environment ministry's authorisation refers only to the marinas, but the grand vision of the developers goes far beyond their construction.
The original scheme presented by President Vicente Fox two years ago also promised a "land bridge" that would allow sailors to tow their boats over
the mountains, as well as top-range accommodation, golf courses, and airports. To critics, it conjured up images of Cancun-like hotel strips and
swim-with-the-dolphins resorts swallowing up the unspoilt beaches.
Not so, said Salvador Nito at the government agency in charge of the project. He insists that the Escalera Nautica project is deeply ecological, and
blames its bad image on "communications failures" and early "confusions".
Furthermore, he said, the controversial land bridge has been scrapped and replaced by an "ecological tourist corridor", and the planners no longer
talk about boats, only "nautical tourists".
And the golf courses? "Everything will be sensitive to the small communities," Mr Nito pledged.
For Mr Dedina of Wildcoast, such evasive talk only confirms his conviction that the Escalera Nautica is doomed to failure - a pipe dream that will
never attract the private investment needed to make the government seed capital in the marinas and the road worthwhile.
"There are going to be scores of white elephants up and down the coast," Mr Dedina predicts. "This is going to be Mexico's Titanic, or its Enron." PabloS - 11-17-2003 at 12:30 PM
quote "And as far as the fishing goes, for those concerned with protecting Baja waters, why don't you start with doing something about the 75 to 100
american sportfishing boats I see in front of my house every time the fish are running. "
JR,, IMHO those American sportfishing boats in front of your house won't catch enough fish in a week to equal the 1 day catch of a large trawler out
of Ensenada and don't forget the Ensenada sport boats, they follow the crowd too
I think if the Mexican Government ran their fishery responsibly they would not issuse the permits to the American sport boats.bajalera - 11-17-2003 at 12:49 PM
Thanks for that info, Stephanie. I didn't know resorts served as a presidential perk.
Serge Dedina's book on saving the gray whale indicates that people bent on protecting their environment can sometimes win. (Although you have to
wonder how long it will last.)
I worked for SEA magazine about a million years ago, and even then what most readers wanted to know about were lonely coves with only a few other
boats
in sight--or none at all. These people will take a dim view of checking in with port captains, paying anchorage fees, etc. While others will welcome
the de lixe hotels, golf courses and whatever, I wonder if they add up to a profitable and stable clientele.
On the other hand, why should I give a rap?Skeet/Loreto - 11-17-2003 at 03:59 PM
Well it is fishing time in Dos Palos. Calif. You Baja Fisherman should realize how Luckey you are to have the money and time to go to the Greatest
Fishing Spot in the world Loreto!!!
As winter approaches and their is no more need the Irrigations companines start letting all the remaining water into the Duck Area so that the Duck
Hunters will have more Ducks to shoot!!
As the water goes down their are two ot three commercial Fisherman with Licenses that go to each outlet and using Shockers take most of the small
eatable fish,leaving the Carp and Bass.
Then the Mexicano guys and their wifes go in under the Culverts and one runs the fish out one end into the sacks of the other guy. They will fill up
with a Hundred lbs of Carp in a short time,Of course all this is illegal but for us around here it keeps from too many Carp each year dying from over
Population!!
So for the next several weeks I will get invitations to many BBQues. But I do not partake as there is to much pesticide in the Waters
Sometimes as I look out at this vast Valley"The richest Agricultural County in the world" I think ,How many people would starve to death if it was not
for these hard working. Farmers.
I was today at the local cow Sales barn today and saw baby calves going for $5.00 each. It costs too much money to rasie them out for beef !!
I think that we all must try to look at the big picture about this world and do our best to leave a better life for our children!Skeet/Loreto tjgringo - 11-19-2003 at 03:16 PM
*sigh*