BajaNomad - A Day Without a Mexican - the movie

A Day Without a Mexican - the movie

bajabound2005 - 4-18-2006 at 09:11 PM

Has anyone seen it? How about some discussion? May 1 is in fact the day designated to the THE DAY. It's a mocumentary and quite funny...funny, funny and sad, funny. And, scary funny. Your comments please on THE FILM. IOW, stay on topic, por favor!

BAJACAT - 4-18-2006 at 09:32 PM

I have it. it tells the story about a day that the fields have nobody to pick the produce. a rich family wake up with no maide and don't know what to do for breakfast. is't kind of funny but delivers the messageyou have to see it to come up with your own oppinion...

Bajaboy - 4-18-2006 at 09:39 PM

But, I keep asking what would happen if any major demographic group "disappeared" from the US?

zac

Frank - 4-18-2006 at 10:57 PM

Another one will take its place.

Timbercrete - 4-19-2006 at 06:01 AM

Does the movie show on the walkout day, Budwieser and Marlboro show record sales? :?:

David K - 4-19-2006 at 07:38 AM

I work with a documented man from Oaxaca... We talked about May 1 yesterday. He came so far and went through what was asked by the U.S. to WORK and live here... What the illegal immigrant supporters are asking happen on May 1 makes him laugh.

May 1 is the world-wide communist's day of celebration... Funny they want to celebrate a failed system!

vandenberg - 4-19-2006 at 11:19 AM

Quote:

[

May 1 is the world-wide communist's day of celebration... Funny they want to celebrate a failed system!

May 1st is celebrated as Labor Day all over the world and has nothing to do with communism

David K - 4-19-2006 at 06:07 PM

You got all your history and geography in our public school system, I take it??? :lol:

My Baja Calendar for 2006 says Labor Day is Sept. 4, by the way... (all over the world on May 1?)

vandenberg - 4-19-2006 at 06:10 PM

The USA is not the world ,my friend, no matter how much they like to think so.

David K - 4-19-2006 at 06:19 PM

But it is part of the world... and a pretty big part too (#4 in population and #4 in area last time I looked up the specs...)

The U.S. is also the most generous nation in the world, and ready to shed blood for the cause of freedom and for end of tyranny... If not for us, then we would all be dead or speaking German, Russian, or Arabic depending on which conflict you don't think we should have been envolved in.

Sept. 4th is our labor day and I am proud of that.

Paula - 4-19-2006 at 07:30 PM

And a fine labor day it is , David.

And May 1st is a great day to honor workers around the globe.

And right you are-- we are always ready to shed blood-- for the cause of freedom, an end to tyranny, and whatever is in it for us. I know I'm leaving myself wide open with this statement, but really, I believe we have fought some less than altruistic wars recently.

English is really not an inherently better language than others. I personally find German to be not very sonorous, and Russian and Arabic difficult to learn.

But Spanish... now there is a lovely tongue.

All over the world? Vandenberg

frizkie - 4-19-2006 at 07:49 PM

Labour Day in Canada is celebrated September 4th this year same as the USA.
Where are you getting your facts from??

elizabeth - 4-19-2006 at 07:55 PM

My Mexican calendar says May 1.
And, Paula, it's like the Texas Tornados sing..."Spanish is a Loving Tongue".

Paula - 4-19-2006 at 08:36 PM

exactly, Elizabeth...

that's an old song-- where did it come from?

Bob Dylan- 1973.

[Edited on 4-20-2006 by Paula]

Bruce R Leech - 4-19-2006 at 08:43 PM

May 1st is celebrated as Labor Day all over the world and has nothing to do with communism ?????

who says that??

Bruce R Leech - 4-19-2006 at 08:45 PM

May 1st is May day witch is the international distress signal. :lol:

Well, we could also imagine...

Hook - 4-19-2006 at 09:03 PM

...what Mexico would be like without all the gringo and Canadian dollars spent down there. Come to think of it, without all the dollars earned up here and sent home by the illegals as well :light:

All of that is probably far more important to Mexico than the illegals are to the US.

Hell, without all that, there would have been two or three more 1910s come along......

It's a rather sad testament to the inefficiency and corruption that is Mexico that they could have all that and incredible resources........... and still 10-20 million people are forced to leave the country and their families behind.

bajajudy - 4-20-2006 at 06:29 AM

The international working class holiday; Mayday, originated in pagan Europe. It was a festive holy day celebrating the first spring planting. The ancient Celts and Saxons celebrated May 1st as Beltane or the day of fire. Bel was the Celtic god of the sun.

The Saxons began their May day celebrations on the eve of May, April 30. It was an evening of games and feasting celebrating the end of winter and the return of the sun and fertility of the soil. Torch bearing peasants and villager would wind their way up paths to the top of tall hills or mountain crags and then ignite wooden wheels which they would roll down into the fields

The May eve celebrations were eventually outlawed by the Catholic church, but were still celebrated by peasants until the late 1700's. While good church going folk would shy away from joining in the celebrations, those less afraid of papal authority would don animal masks and various costumes, not unlike our modern Halloween. The revelers, lead by the Goddess of the Hunt; Diana (sometimes played by a pagan-priest in women's clothing) and the Horned God; Herne, would travel up the hill shouting, chanting and singing, while blowing hunting horns. This night became known in Europe as Walpurgisnacht, or night of the witches

The Celtic tradition of Mayday in the British isles continued to be celebrated through-out the middle ages by rural and village folk. Here the traditions were similar with a goddess and god of the hunt.

As European peasants moved away from hunting gathering societies their gods and goddesses changed to reflect a more agrarian society. Thus Diana and Herne came to be seen by medieval villagers as fertility deities of the crops and fields. Diana became the Queen of the May and Herne became Robin Goodfellow (a predecessor of Robin Hood) or the Green Man.

The Queen of the May reflected the life of the fields and Robin reflected the hunting traditions of the woods. The rites of mayday were part and parcel of pagan celebrations of the seasons. Many of these pagan rites were later absorbed by the Christian church in order to win over converts from the 'Old Religion'.

Mayday celebrations in Europe varied according to locality, however they were immensely popular with artisans and villagers until the 19th Century. The Christian church could not eliminate many of the traditional feast and holy days of the Old Religion so they were transformed into Saint days.

During the middle ages the various trade guilds celebrated feast days for the patron saints of their craft. The shoemakers guild honored St. Crispin, the tailors guild celebrated Adam and Eve. As late as the 18th century various trade societies and early craft-unions would enter floats in local parades still depicting Adam and Eve being clothed by the Tailors and St. Crispin blessing the shoemaker.

The two most popular feast days for Medieval craft guilds were the Feast of St. John, or the Summer Solstice and Mayday. Mayday was a raucous and fun time, electing a queen of the May from the eligible young women of the village, to rule the crops until harbest. Our tradition of beauty pagents may have evolved , albeit in a very bastardized form, from the May Queen.

Besides the selection of the May Queen was the raising of the phallic Maypole, around which the young single men and women of the village would dance holding on to the ribbons until they became entwined, with their ( hoped for) new love.

And of course there was Robin Goodfellow, or the Green Man who was the Lord of Misrule for this day. Mayday was a celebration of the common people, and Robin would be the King/Priest/Fool for a day. Priests and Lords were the butt of many jokes, and the Green Man and his supporters; mummers would make jokes and poke fun of the local authorities. This tradition of satire is still conducted today in Newfoundland, with the Christmas Mummery.

The church and state did not take kindly to these celebrations, especially during times of popular rebellion. Mayday and the Maypole were outlawed in the 1600's. Yet the tradition still carried on in many rural areas of England. The trade societies still celebrated Mayday until the 18th Century.

As trade societies evolved from guilds, to friendly societies and eventually into unions, the craft traditions remained strong into the early 19th century. In North America Dominion Day celebrations in Canada and July 4th celebrations in the United States would be celebrated by tradesmen still decorating floats depicting their ancient saints such as St. Crispin.

Bruce R Leech - 4-20-2006 at 06:43 AM

May Day
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the distress signal, see: Mayday; For the James Bond villain see May Day (James Bond)
May Day is a name for various holidays celebrated on May 1 (or in the beginning of May). The most famous of these is International Workers' Day, which is the commemoration of the social and economic achievements of the labor movement. The 1 May date is used because in 1884 the Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions, inspired by Labor's 1872 success in Canada, demanded an eight-hour workday in the United States, to come in effect as of May 1, 1886. This resulted in the general strike and the U.S. Haymarket Riot of 1886, but eventually also in the official sanction of the eight-hour workd

Labour association
International Workers' Day is an international holiday celebrated on May 1st in commemoration of certain historic achievements of the labor movement and in remembrance of the 1886 Haymarket Riot in Chicago, Illinois. In countries other than the United States and United Kingdom, where the term has slightly different connotations, May Day is often referred to as Labor Day. In most other places of the world, the resident working classes fought hard to make May Day an official government-recognized holiday.

Canada, Australia, and New Zealand celebrate Labour Day on different dates, which has to do with how the holiday originated in those countries; see Loyalty Day and Law Day.

May Day has long been a focal point for demonstrations by various socialist, communist, and anarchist groups. In the 20th century, the holiday received the official endorsement of the Soviet Union; celebrations in communist countries during the Cold War era often consisted of large military parades and shows of common people in support of the government.

A May Day rally in Mumbai.

PFLP May Day poster

A rally in Stockholm, Sweden 1899.

1st May poster, Communist Poland

May Day in the United Kingdom
In the United Kingdom, political events have sometimes split into two camps. The mainstream workers' movement celebrates May Day on the first Monday in May, which is the national Spring Bank Holiday and may or may not actually occur on 1 May. Small-scale rallies are held by political parties (generally including, but not limited to, the Labour Party, the Socialist Workers' Party, the Scottish Socialist Party, the Communist Party of Britain and other left-wing groups). These occasions are typified by beer tents in parks and selling of Marxist propaganda materials.

The actual date of 1 May in the U.K., meanwhile, generally features rallies and demonstrations organised by anarchist groups, although in recent years these have also involved communist groups, particularly those of the Trotskyist branch.

[edit]
May Day Militancy in Germany

May Day graffiti in Berlin. The text reads, "1 May: Cars burn, cops die." 'Bullen' (bulls, male cows) is a derogatory term used for the police.Berlin, Germany, particularly in the districts of Kreuzberg and Prenzlauer Berg, traditionally has yearly demonstrations on May Day. In 1929, the social democratic SPD government prohibited the annual May Day workers' demonstrations in Berlin. The communist party KPD, which was the strongest party in Berlin, called demonstrations nonetheless. By the end of the day, 32 demonstrators, workers and bystanders had been killed by the police, at least 80 were seriously injured. The Berlin police, under control of the supposedly pro-labor social democratic government, had fired a total of 11,000 rounds of live ammunition.

This incident, remembered as Blutmai (ger.) (blood May) deepened the split between the workers' parties KPD and SPD. This gave an advantage to the N-zis, who became Germany's governing party in 1933, partly due to the fact that the KPD and SPD had been unable to form an anti-N-zi coalition. The N-zis adapted May Day to their purposes, calling it the "day of work", which is still the official name for this public holiday. Ironically, just after May Day - to be more precise, on May 2, 1933 - the N-zis outlawed all free labor unions and other independent workers' organizations in Germany. The Reichsarbeitsdienst (or RAD, Reich Labour Service) was formed in July 1934 as an amalgamation of the outlawed unions.

In today's Germany May Day is still of political importance, with labor unions and parties using this day for political campaigns and activities, but since 1987 it has also become known for heavy rioting by radical leftists, including the punk rock scene, Autonome, and others, but also "regular" youths not fond of the police. However, May Day 2005 in Berlin was the most peaceful in nearly 23 years.

In recent years, neo-N-zis and other groups on the far right like the NPD have also used the day to schedule public demonstrations, often leading to clashes with left-wing protesters, which turned especially violent in the historical city of Leipzig in 1998 and 2005.

[edit]
EuroMayDay
Since 2001, EuroMayDay has become part of the celebration of the First of May, aiming to update the political content of the traditional May Day. The point of reference of EuroMayDay is not the industrial working class, but rather the multitude of increasingly precarized post-fordist flex/temp/networkers. EuroMayDay aims to create visible opposition against precarization of labour and life. EuroMayDay was originated in Milan, Italy, from where it first spread to Barcelona in 2004 and then to over a dozen cities all over Europe in 2005. In 2005, approximately 200.000 people took part in the Europe-wide EuroMayDay.

In 2005, the EuroMayDay network used the slogan Precarious of the world let's unite and strike 4 a free open radical Europe. The Middlesex Declaration of Europe's Precariat 2004 emerged from the Beyond ESF event held in parallel to the European Social Forum held in London in September 2004. In 2006, even more cities are taking part in EuroMayDay. The amount of participants has increased from 5000 people in Milan in 2001 to 50.000 in 2003 and 100.000 in 2004 (Milan and Barcelona altogether). EuroMayDay Cities have included Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Helsinki, Jyv?skyl?, L'Aquila, Leon, Liege, London, Maribor, Marseilles, Milan, Naples, Palermo, Paris, Seville, Stockholm and Vienna. External link:

Euromayday website
[edit]
Governmental Resistance to May Day
In the United States, instead of May Day, Labor Day is celebrated on the first Monday in September. It is a creation of the labor movement and is dedicated to the social and economic achievements of American workers. It constitutes a yearly national tribute to the contributions workers have made to the strength, prosperity, and well-being of the country.

In a separate attempt to co-opt May Day, the Roman Catholic Church added another Saint Joseph's Day in 1955 that Christianized 1 May as the day of "Saint Joseph, the Worker". It is perhaps surprising that the Church did not take this step earlier, to distract attention from the traditionally virile pagan celebrations of May Day.

[edit]
Other Traditions

Morris dancing on May Day, Oxford 2004.Traditional English May Day rites and celebrations include Morris dancing, crowning a May Queen, celebrating Green Man day and dancing around a Maypole. Much of this tradition derives from the pagan festival of Beltane.

In Oxford on May Morning, many pubs are open from sunrise, and some of the college bars are open all night. Madrigals are still sung from the roof of the tower of Magdalen College, with thousands gathering on Magdalen Bridge to listen. Traditionally, revellers have jumped from the bridge into the River Cherwell below as part of the celebrations. About one hundred people did this in 2005. The river, however, was then only three feet deep in places and more than half of those who jumped needed medical treatment.

St Andrews has a similar student tradition ? the majority of the students gather on the beach late on April 30th and run into the North Sea at sunrise on the 1st, often naked. This is accompanied by torchlit processions and much celebration.

May Day is exactly a half-year from November 1, All Saints' Day. Marking the end of the uncomfortable winter half of the year in the Northern hemisphere, it has always been an occasion for popular and often raucous celebrations, regardless of the political or religious establishment. May Day was also originally the Celtic holiday Beltaine, the "Return of the Sun". It is the third and last of the spring festivals. We can see traces of Beltaine when dancing around the maypole or sending a basket of flowers to your neighbor's door.

Other holidays on May Day were also respected by some early European settlers of the American continent. The day also marks springtime celebrations such as:

Walpurgis Night in Northern Europe, including the Finnish Vappu celebrations
Beltane in Ireland and Scotland
Roodmas
Calendimaggio in Northern and Central Italy, related to the return of the sun and spring
May Morning in Oxford
Hamilton College hosts an annual music outdoor music festival known as "May Day." However the name has no political connotations or association with other May Day holidays. Rather the name simply refers to the fact that the festival is staged in late April or early May.
In Hawaii, May Day is also known as Lei Day, and is normally set aside as a day to celebrate island culture in general and native Hawaiian culture in particular. In rural regions of Germany, Walpurgisnacht celebrations of pagan origin are traditionally held on the night before May Day, including bonfires and the wrapping of May Poles, and young people use this opportunity to party, while the day itself is used by many families to get some fresh air, wurst and beer. Motto: "Tanz in den Mai!" ("Dance in May!").
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Say what?

bajajudy - 4-20-2006 at 08:31 AM

precarized post-fordist flex/temp/networkers

chickensoup - 4-20-2006 at 09:55 AM

Woooo....now.

The absolute reality...which is not shown in the film...is what would REALLY happen if everyone just disappeared.

I be would able to actually use those ipod FM modulators...because there would be no more Spanish speaking stations hogging up the airwaves???

The film is crap.

A day w/o a Mexican (in the USA)

Taco de Baja - 4-20-2006 at 12:40 PM

The roads would not be as crowded.
There would be no lines at the emergency rooms.
The schools would have a decent student-teacher ratio.
The jails would not be overcrowded.
Prices for health and auto insurance would fall.
There would be less demand for gas, so gas prices would fall to.
The Mexican economy would take a huge blow from the lack of funds sent home.

It's never as one-sided as it is sometimes portrayed

bajajudy - 4-20-2006 at 12:49 PM

You know, the way some of you talk about the people of this country, I dont know why you would ever want to come here. And with that attitude, you shouldnt

One of the main ironies of the movie is the title. Can anyone tell me why?

Natalie Ann - 4-20-2006 at 01:00 PM

A Day Without A Mexican...
... sometimes they have to disappear to be seen.

Paula - 4-20-2006 at 01:15 PM

Quote:

You know, the way some of you talk about the people of this country, I dont know why you would ever want to come here. And with that attitude, you shouldnt

Judy, as the old saying goes, "you took the words right outof my mouth!" How anyone can spend time here and not learn of kindness, gentleness, helpfulness, gratitude and humility as a way of life amazes me.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but we hope to rent it tonight or tomorrow.

elizabeth - 4-20-2006 at 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula

Quote:

You know, the way some of you talk about the people of this country, I dont know why you would ever want to come here. And with that attitude, you shouldnt

I'm with Judy and Paula on this...I was appalled to read some of those comments.

It is puzzleing to me----------

Barry A. - 4-20-2006 at 02:22 PM

---------why anybody would be "appalled" or "offended" by comments about ILLEGAL folks in the USA, or anywhere else, for that matter.

The key word is ILLEGAL!!!! this means that they "broke the law", and the "law" is the main thing that holds any fragile democracy together.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what we think about Mexicans--------it is what we think of folks that have BROKEN THE LAW!!!!!!! no matter what Nationality they are.

Please stay focused-------those that wish our borders enforced do not hate Mexicans, that I know of. We believe in the rule of law, and I am one of them.

I will continue to visit Mexico, like I have done for the past 55 years, and continue to enjoy the hard working folks that I encounter there, whether you think I should, or not.

bajajudy - 4-20-2006 at 02:40 PM

The movie was not about illegal aliens.

Barry A. - 4-20-2006 at 02:42 PM

Sorry-----I have not seen the movie, but thought that the "comments" referred to were about Mexican Illegals-------if not, then I apologise.

Taco de Baja - 4-20-2006 at 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula

Quote:

You know, the way some of you talk about the people of this country, I dont know why you would ever want to come here. And with that attitude, you shouldnt

What you should be appalled about is the US employers who take advantage of these hard working people, expect them to work under grueling conditions, pay then dirt wages, and provide no benefits.

You should be appalled that employers chose to save a few buck$ and hire an illegal rather than a US citizen.

You should be appalled that there are jobs that US citizens will now not do, that for some reason they did 30 years ago.

You should be appalled that our government does not enforce laws against employers who hire illegals, or enforce laws against illegal in this county.

You should be appalled that Cities allow people to live in sub-standard conditions in homes and apartments that have way more people in them than they were designed.
for.

bajajudy - 4-20-2006 at 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja
The roads would not be as crowded.
There would be no lines at the emergency rooms.
The schools would have a decent student-teacher ratio.
The jails would not be overcrowded.
Prices for health and auto insurance would fall.
There would be less demand for gas, so gas prices would fall to.
The Mexican economy would take a huge blow from the lack of funds sent home.

It's never as one-sided as it is sometimes portrayed

What does the above have to do with what you said later?

[Edited on 4-20-2006 by bajajudy]

"Who benefits?" ???????????

Barry A. - 4-20-2006 at 03:22 PM

----Grover, surely you are joking?????

WE BENEFIT, of course. If you can't see that I don't know what to say.

THE EMPLOYERS ARE BREAKING THE LAW, and no amount of rationalization changes that. Any move in the direction of enforcing the laws is a step in the right direction, as I see it.

This particular law is long overdue for enforcement, as are most of the immigration laws, as well as the border integrity.

Your cynicism is disturbing, at least to me.

Paula - 4-20-2006 at 03:31 PM

Barry A., I will have more respect for the terms "legal" and "illegal" when I feel that the laws written and passed by our government and the governments of other nations are made with the safety, well-being and dignity of the peoples of the world as the sole motivation of The Law. As it stands today, the legal codes of most countries benefit corporations and the more affluent among the governed. Sadly, the poorer, less educated and weaker of people go unaided by The Law.

Taco, I AM appalled by the way that corporations treat workers-- American workers, and Mexican workers, both "legal" and "illegal". I am also appalled that those words are applied to human beings. I am appalled that our government does not enforce laws against employers who do not pay and respect their workers as they should. And I am appalled that any people live without good nutrition, medical care, and safe housing-- especially in our wealthy and powerful country.
I think that the fact that Americans will not do work that they did 30 years ago is a result of conditions in our society that have nothing to do with foreign workers.

I think that the world is much smaller than it was just a short time ago, and we need to look for solutions to the problems of all mankind rather than for Americans, and for Mexicans, and for Chinese, and Africans...

We are all in this together, like it or not, and I believe cooperation and unselfishness, will go farther for us all than the "Igot mine" way of thinking that we as a nation are guilty of.

So... did anybody want to know what I think?

Taco de Baja - 4-20-2006 at 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajudy

Quote:

What does the above have to do with what you said later?

[Edited on 4-20-2006 by bajajudy]

Estimates state that there are 12 million illegals in this country. Many of then are being taken advantage of. This is not right. No one on either side seems to care. All people want is a cheap head of lettuce. :mad:

The original start of this thread (that may have to be moved to the off topic section) was "A day Without a Mexican". Although I have not seen this movie, I am sure it is as one-sided and biased as that Michael Moore's 9-11 movie. I simply was adding a few things that would happen if 12 million people (more if you want to count legal and illegal Mexicans) were to magically vanish out of this Country that the movie probably did not even cover.....Everything I stated would happen, including the complete failure of the Mexican economy....was that in the movie?

I say again, this issue is not one sided.

[Edited on 4-20-2006 by Taco de Baja]

A Day without Mexicans

bajajudy - 4-20-2006 at 05:26 PM

If you havent seen the movie, how the heck do you know what it is about. OR what slant it may or may not take.

Back to the topic
And of those of you who have seen the movie.
What is the irony of the title?

bajabound2005 - 4-20-2006 at 05:33 PM

Wow, I post a topic to get a discussion going about the movie and it goes wild! Anyway - are they illegal because it's too damn complicated, difficult, expensive, have to wait for years to come here legally? Heck, we (meaning many of the Nomads) can't even figure out whether or not to get a Tourist Visa and how to do so. Look how many of you have stated you did not get one for your Baja travels although required. YOU were THERE illegally! What we really need is a simple immigration system between the 2 countries. Hubby and I volunteer at a local food bank daily (in Sacramento). You wouldn't believe the number of "illegals" we give emergency food to - they have absolutely no form of ID with them. We are not a government operation so we don't much care, but it's very sad that they got here with nothing that even has their name on it. And they are not all from Mexico. What we do see as all legal immigrants is Russians and lots of them. With 10 kids in the family. They have everything in order - everyone has a Social Sec card, passport the works, and all on some form of government assistance. Most have made no effort to learn our language. Why is it so easy for Russians to get here legally and so difficult for Hispanics?

Riom - 4-20-2006 at 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajabound2005
What we really need is a simple immigration system between the 2 countries.

Absolutely. Open the border. Allow free movement of people, goods and services in BOTH directions (with each country still allowed to have internal checkpoints for criminals, drugs etc as now).

Allow citizens of either country to live, work and invest in the other. With a residence qualification (a number of months) before you can claim local unemployment and social benefits.

The result would be increasing investment in Mexico (massive new market), raising the standard of living. And probably a large number of Americans moving south, especially those priced out of the country with healthcare etc.

The number of Mexicans going north would be large to start with. But with supply and demand, and increasing prospects back home, the number who would want to become expats would settle down to maybe similar to now. A lot of the "illegals" can't come and go easily, with free movement there would be less who feel they have to stay in case they can't get back.

And if anybody thinks this wouldn't work, it's happening already, in the European Union. It works. Some of the newer countries in the EU are poor, and there are many who leave those countries to work in richer ones, but they mostly save their money and then head home again to buy real estate and start a business at home, raising the standard of living there.

Quote:

Why is it so easy for Russians to get here legally and so difficult for Hispanics?

This may have been a limited thing during the fall of the Soviet Union, but Russian and Ukranian friends in New York told me there was a quota for "Russian Jews" to be allowed to come to the US bypassing the normal process. Lots of them signed up to "become Jewish" and then came to the US shortly after, many going to Brighton Beach: http://www.travelintelligence.net/wsd/articles/art_770.html

Paula - 4-20-2006 at 08:22 PM

Quote:

Absolutely. Open the border. Allow free movement of people, goods and services in BOTH directions (with each country still allowed to have internal checkpoints for criminals, drugs etc as now).

It would be so good to see this happen... how might we encourage our elected officials to move in this direction?

David K - 4-20-2006 at 08:24 PM

Riom, I like the sound of your idea.

However, would not the base pay (minimum wage) need to rise in Mexico and match ours first? Good pay in Mexico is 10 dollars a day, here it is 10 dollars an hour! THAT is why they flood north...

I would love to live and work in Mexico if I could, and afford to have the things I enjoy... Once my kids are adults.

Frank - 4-20-2006 at 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paula

Quote:

Absolutely. Open the border. Allow free movement of people, goods and services in BOTH directions (with each country still allowed to have internal checkpoints for criminals, drugs etc as now).

It would be so good to see this happen... how might we encourage our elected officials to move in this direction?

Isnt that the way it is now? If everyone follows the rules? Why re-invent the wheel? Just enforce what on the books now.

Paula - 4-20-2006 at 08:37 PM

My neighbors, Jose and Maria (not their names) have family in the US. Maria's sister lives in San Diego with her American born children. The sister went up undocumented 10 years ago. Her daughterr can visit Mexico, but the sister cannot. Jose's parents live in Arizona. They have never seen their grandchildren, and can't come down. Although Jose has a good job with the city, they can't afford the passports and travel.

College graduates in Oaxaca who teach Spanish imersion classes to foreign tourists can't enter the US because their income isn't sufficient to obtain the visa. It is very difficult for Mexicans to enter the US-- legally or not.

[Edited on 4-21-2006 by Paula]

Frank - 4-20-2006 at 08:56 PM

We have a family in the same situation, except up here in San Diego. Our friend cannot go back home to Colima to see her sick father, due to her status{or lack of}.

Paula,
Im just a average guy sitting in San Diego. I have no clue what it takes for a Mexican to come to the US. It seemed simple enough. I know a lot of the general public has the same amount of knowledge as I do.
Its really confusing for me. I root for them to come, but know that we cannot just open the flood gates.

Timbercrete - 4-20-2006 at 09:23 PM

:?:

I don't understand. Are you saying these poeple living in the states can't go to Mexico to visit ill Family members or for that part, family members at all?

Frank - 4-20-2006 at 10:27 PM

Oh they can, but its getting back home to there US citizen children thats the problem.

chickensoup - 4-20-2006 at 10:50 PM

1) The movie is crap!

2) Open borders??? Way to go! Hispanics in the South West may go for it, but what about the rest of the US. Please! Racism and hate are very real.

3) IF we were to let the borders just open, what would happen to Baja?? Disaster. Gringo city. I would buy land like the wind and so would every other person with a job. The locals would be priced out and shipped out.

bajabound2005 - 4-21-2006 at 06:31 AM

Hey Chickensoup, why do you say the movie is crap? You don't back up your statement with anything.

[Edited on 4-21-2006 by bajabound2005]

bajajudy - 4-21-2006 at 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chickensoup

3) IF we were to let the borders just open, what would happen to Baja?? Disaster. Gringo city. I would buy land like the wind and so would every other person with a job. The locals would be priced out and shipped out.

What makes you think that you cant do that now? The Mexican land ownership laws will not change no matter what happens to the border. In Baja you cannot own land outright...period.

woody with a view - 4-21-2006 at 09:10 AM

it's a movie. i don't like it. i like very few movies. hard to keep me entertained for two hours at a strech while sitting. sleep comes fast these days.

what about a day without a cop? a firefighter? a nuke plant worker? a teacher? a doctor? and on and on.

maybe its from working 200 miles from home, seeing my wife and son only on weekends all just to keep the lights on and gas at $3/gallon and to try to justify my wages to the boss when he can hire 3 "others" and still probably save money. when i started this job there was a safety meeting-me (token white guy), a black guy, 42 non-english speaking guys who required a translator!!! on a government construction site! what about the issues of safety when you can't understand each other! this country is full of crap. politicos just wanna stay in office and will do anything (except what's right for the country) to make sure that happens. how does that make this country better?

jesus h. christ-just open the borders and let everyone who wants to come, in? :lol:

even if it was a two way street, you all would run south just to find what you left in the first place, eventually. where's the logic?

sorry for the rant, but i started on topic

oh, my wife is peruvian so that disqualifies me as a latino hater-N-zi-racist, no?

[Edited on 4-21-2006 by woody in ob]

Paula - 4-21-2006 at 10:02 AM

It's a sad story,Pompano, and Susie and her family shouldn't have to suffer the loss of the life they've made for themselves. One thing is for certain, that there is no easy solution to all the injustices that have brought about her situation.
She is right that the Mexican government needs to solve the problem of poverty down here. But this isn't something we can fix.
And she blames the American government for not protecting her. And she is right on this one too.
The question is what should the government do? More prisons, tighter borders, more guns, citizen vigilante groups have not improved things any more than the long running war on drugs has solved the drug problem. And the drug problem is a part of the border problem, and certainly part of Susie's problem.
I wonder if a new way of seeing and dealing with the border might be a good step. What we have been doing certainly isn't working, and Susie's difficulties are small compared to those of Juan and Alejandro.

Riom - 4-21-2006 at 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chickensoup
3) IF we were to let the borders just open, what would happen to Baja?? Disaster. Gringo city. I would buy land like the wind and so would every other person with a job. The locals would be priced out and shipped out.

I agree it would be a disaster for Baja California, but the Californians moving in (some illegally) are doing the same already. And, in most cases, locals move away from the pricey (and unstable) beachfront land but stay local, and get paid more wages as prices rise, rather than just going to interior Mexico because it is cheap.

Quote:

Originally posted by Frank
Isnt that the way it is now? If everyone follows the rules? Why re-invent the wheel? Just enforce what on the books now.

Not at all. There is limited free trade for big business, and for a few people under special circumstances (mostly when they have plenty of money). That's it. There's still a customs border and no practical way to get normal (everyday) jobs in the other country legally, in either direction.

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompano
It is a little different take on the illegal immigration issue. This woman's trials are typical of ranch-owners living within a hundred miles of our 700-mile border with Mexico. Can you imagine (from this article) how you would feel?
[Edited on 4-21-2006 by Pompano]

I agree. This is caused by forcing people to cross the border illegally, rather than providing a way to do it legally. With open borders, people smuggling and walking across the desert disappears - they can just legally get the bus. There would still be drug smuggling, but it's not limited to the border areas anywhere - checkpoints and borders can be in more sensible locations, further south and north.

For example, driving south from the Netherlands (drugs widely available) there's no border going into Belgium and then on into France (by no border I mean nothing at all, just a "welcome to France" sign on the freeway). But inside France, at convenient points, there are random checkpoints and searches, like the Immigration checkpoints north of Yuma and Brawley. No long border to expensively defend.

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
However, would not the base pay (minimum wage) need to rise in Mexico and match ours first? Good pay in Mexico is 10 dollars a day, here it is 10 dollars an hour! THAT is why they flood north...

Given the choice, most people prefer to work near family and friends. In the EU for example a nurse is paid around $360/month in Slovakia, $2500/month plus in Ireland, a similar ratio. The nurse from Slovakia can already move freely to Ireland, and they may do for a while, but most realise that much of the difference is used up with the higher cost of living. Most people hate being exiles.

Over time, the poorer countries catch up. Portugal is an example which was very poor before joining the EU but is catching up, in large part because lots of northern Europeans have moved there which employs more people locally at higher rates.

Anyway, to get back to the movie, sounds worth watching, although it'll be interesting to see if they mention that the US should get something in return for allowing Mexicans in legally... freedoms should be reciprocal, that way both sides become in favor.

capn.sharky - 4-21-2006 at 04:10 PM

"It would be so good to see this happen... how might we encourage our elected officials to move in this direction?"

Paula---Its simple, send them lots of money. These people are only in it for what it can do for them. They care not about us. That should be clear by now. When people ask how I can go to Baja with all the corruption, I respond by telling them I am leaving our corruption to see another countries corruption.

Paula - 4-21-2006 at 05:20 PM

Cap'n Sharkey,

I couldn't agree with you more. But I keep hoping.........

bajajudy - 4-22-2006 at 08:21 AM

Ok and the answer is(if anyone cares).....................

The irony of the title is that it was ALL Spanish speaking people who disappeared not just Mexicans but we, Americans, lump them all together never thinking that some were from Guatamala, Honduras, Columbia, Puerto Rico etc.

HotSchott - 4-22-2006 at 09:53 AM

I guess if all Spanish-speaking people disappeared that would include a few of us degenerate Mexi-loving landscaper types that actually speak Spanish. There is alot of sh*t that wouldn't get done if I don't go to work. It should be like "A day without a Gringo Boss"...

May 1 is my Dad's birthday - he will be 71. A totally just cause for celebration - he's a way cool dude. I think he likes Mexicans. Is this relevant? My birthday is May 3. I am going to Belize to party where everyone doesn't give a crap about much other than fishing and keeping my Belikin cold. That is what Labor day should be all about - keeping my beer cold. I am taking my wife and mother - they both like Mexicans too. This must be important to someone.

I like Belize - virtually everyone is from somewhere else. The black people there would rather fish and smoke lots of pot than b-tch about the fact that their great great great great great grandaddy was a slave. Garifuna is a cool language and you have to shake your ass - (hey I said A$$) when they get on the drums. Most Belizeans speak good English and like to get drunk at Christmas - this is probably not important to everyone.

In Belize, virtually every day is a day without Mexicans - which is funny because, well like Mexico is like right there.

I suspect most of the Mexican guys I work with are not going to see A day without a Mexican - even if they change the name to something else. The Mexicans I work with don't seem to be too concerned with the "Big Reform Movement" stirring around town. They actually rolled their eyes and laughed when I asked if they were participating. I tried to explain how important it was to participate in this momentous process, this life-changing appeal to our legislators. Let's just say that they were not moved. It seems that Apathy is tought quickly once they are north of the garita.

Most of the Mexicans don't like the Mexicans from other parts of Mexico. Like the guys from Zacateca can't stand the group from Michoacan. Like they don't even eat together, but they work side-by-side. We had a guy from Guadalajara and he didn't last through the hazing. They really hate each other. They totally hate Guatamalans. Whoo they hate Guatamalans! Are they in the movie too - the Guatamalans?

You know they actually have Menonites in Belize? It is freaking hilarious to see these hard-core German brothers dressed up like Louis Farrakan in the middle of the freaking 100-degree jungle on a horse-drawn cart. This is important and relevant - I'm just not sure why. Do you think the Brits and their red uniforms looked funny in Belize too?

Sooooo, I think it stopped drizzling and I can paint now. But one more thought to really make JR squirm :saint:

, how about movie called "A day without idiots" - you know, genuine anal cranial inverted types? Maybe get Michael Moore to direct it. Or co-narrated by Hillary Clinton and Monica Lewinsky.

American's and much of the rest of the planet needs to lighten up. Those Muslims are really on a tear huh? Talk about uptight - geez. Ya I'm gonna go paint now so I can take my mama to Belize, where there are lots of dudes fishing and smoking pot and lots of Mayans, Guatamalans and Garifuna and Creole but just not too many Mexicans. That's wierd huh? A day without Mexicans. I hope the Beer is cold.

Paula - 4-22-2006 at 10:13 AM

Hot Schott,

Heavy??? I didn't get heavy there did I?? :tumble:

Well, thanks for lightening it up...

Happy birthday-- Hope the fishing is good!

wornout - 4-22-2006 at 10:55 AM

Hum.

Don Alley - 4-22-2006 at 01:10 PM

Hey Pomp...

I have ancestors, Dutch guys, who settled in what is now New York.

They were not illegal aliens.

They bought fideicomisos with their beads. Legal. :lol:

A Day Without The Dutch?

OK, I'll go away now.

bajabound2005 - 4-22-2006 at 03:18 PM

There is a great transcript from a speech by the former Governor of Colorado on this immigration issue at this site:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/lamm.asp
And after reading many of the Nomads' comments, stories and this transcript I think I've changed my mind on this subject. And I've order the book, Mexifornia! Thanks for enlightening all of us.

Raid splits up Mexican families in U.S.

bajajudy - 4-23-2006 at 06:43 AM

BY SAM QUINONES
El Universal
April 23, 2006
Families of deported illegals find themselves suddenly lost in the United States.

Paola Ordaz is feeling lost in the United States.

Her husband, Alfredo Garc?a, was arrested Wednesday with 28 co-workers during a raid at a Riverside, Calif., area factory run by IFCO Systems North America, where he made wooden pallets.

He and his brother, Alejandro Garc?a, were immediately deported to Mexico as a result of the U.S. investigation into IFCO?s alleged hiring of illegal immigrants. They were among 1,187 workers taken into custody this week in a nationwide crackdown on the Dutch company, the largest manufacturer of wooden pallets in the United States.

He?s now in Tijuana, and has called her twice, but is afraid to cross the border illegally again, for fear of landing in prison, she said.

Ordaz, 29, is left to care for three U.S.-born children under the age of 6, with no job, no money - not even enough for bus fare to rejoin her husband in Tijuana. The US$650 rent for their apartment is due May 1.

"I?m hoping to find a job now so I can support my children," said Ordaz, who quit school at age 10 to become a tomato picker.

She has her husband?s car, but has never learned to drive it, and because of that hasn?t explored much of the area west of Riverside, where she?s lived for the last seven years.

She?s not entirely alone. Her sister-in-law, Mar?a Jarqu?n, who is married to Alejandro Garc?a, lives nearby. But she, too, is stranded.

She must now support her 6-year-old daughter and 3-year-old son - both U.S. citizens - at least until she can leave for Mexico when the school year ends.

ESCAPING POVERTY

Until Wednesday, the immigration debate raged as mostly background noise for the women, who had comfortably inhabited the world of undocumented-immigrant housewives raising children in the United States. Neither they nor their husbands had ever faced deportation before.

Southern California was an escape from the poverty in the southern state of Oaxaca.

Their husbands had spent several years as itinerant tomato pickers in northwest Mexico before coming to the United States to work. At the factory, they made US$350 a week.

"We?re all working, doing the hardest jobs," said Jarqu?n. "The immigrants do more work than those who have papers."

But U.S. immigration authorities said families like these made conscious choices to break the law.

"The position of the (U.S.) government is that families make the decision to come here and live illegally," said Virginia Kice, a spokes-woman for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Just because they had children here "doesn?t convey that status on their parents," she added. "Those children are free to return with their parents to a home country."

She also said everyone arrested has the right to have a formal immigration hearing, although doing so might make it more difficult down the road to return to the United States.

"This is not a new situation," she said. "Families have to make their own decisions about how they will proceed."

?TEMPORARY? WORK

At IFCO?s Riverside- area facility, company officials declined to comment on the raid or investigation, saying only that they had hired temporary workers from an employment agency to replace the deported immigrants.

U.S. investigators claim IFCO not only hired illegal immigrants but reimbursed them for buying illegal documents and coached them in avoiding detection.

Ordaz said she knew nothing of this; she had no idea whether the allegations were true. Her life revolved around her apartment and her children, she said.

The Garc?a brothers, according to their wives, had become reliable workers at the plant.

Alfredo had worked there eight years, after arriving illegally from their hometown of Ejutla, Oaxaca, Ordaz said.

Over the years, he was joined at the job by Alejandro, another brother, a sister, a cousin and an uncle, she said.

All were deported after Wednesday?s raid, she said.

Now, Ordaz said, her husband and the others are hoping to earn money in Tijuana to take a bus to back to Oaxaca.

Friday afternoon, Ordaz wasn?t sure whether she?d stay in the United States or go back home.

"You come here to have a better life, but here they don?t want us," she said. "We need to ask the Mexican government to give us jobs so we don?t have to leave our country to survive."

BajaJudy------

Barry A. - 4-23-2006 at 06:59 AM

-------this family detailed in your "piece" certainly did not plan for the future well, did they. Since they were engaged in illegal activity, which by itself includes the possibility of bad things happening, it is amazing to me that they did not have contingency plans to handle situations like this.

All I can do is shake my head, and wonder what people are thinking of when they get themselves, and worse, their kids, into these situations like this which are totally predictable.

Only they can take responsibility for their own ILLEGAL actions, it seems to me.

Taco de Baja - 4-23-2006 at 08:34 AM

A sad story Judy. But there are consequences for breaking the law. They (and include me in this too), never though the current administration would ever enforce the law.

And the last line says it all:
"You come here to have a better life, but here they don?t want us," she said. "We need to ask the Mexican government to give us jobs so we don?t have to leave our country to survive."

This should be Mexico's responsibility to ITS citizens. If they can not, then it is time for another revolution.

David K - 4-23-2006 at 08:39 AM

Read what Jerry posted in the other thread... What Mexico requires for Americans to work there...

bajalou - 4-23-2006 at 09:14 AM

I believe that what jerry posted is not a current thing - it's how it was many years ago.

David K - 4-23-2006 at 09:25 AM

Oh, good... then there is a chance I can work in Mexico! :lol:

bajalou - 4-23-2006 at 09:27 AM

Need some construction workers here in San Felipe for all the new construction - come on down David

David K - 4-23-2006 at 09:36 AM

Have drip, will travel! :lol:

(as in drip irrigation, not a medical condition :lol:

)

Taco de Baja - 4-23-2006 at 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajalou
Need some construction workers here in San Felipe for all the new construction - come on down David

I'll bet some illegal gringos could do the construction jobs in SF. The Spring Breakers could work for beer money.......or just beer