Interesting opinions on BN Board

thanks elgatoloco

i really enjoyed it. pretty comprehensive. covers most of the bases, i think.

another interesting aspect

Americans listen and think...

That's a good one! All the makings of a good oxymarooon.

I would settle for listen OR think.

Hot Shcott

Perhaps if you change Paula's message to American AND Mexican Politicians should stop listen and think--it would survive. People on both sides of this issue are being used by Politicians on each side for 'their' own benefit. Americans to get more votes and Mexicans to quell the revolution that would eventually occur if they didn't have America as a relief valve.

Paula thanks for the reading list--I hate it when people recommend books because I just head out and get them.
I suppose I am a real live 'oxymarooon' because I do attempt to understand both sides of the argument before I place my thoughts in concrete

As usual Skeet comes up with a good one (I'll buy it too)--Did anyone notice his spelling since he became a college student--are they really ready for you my friend?

Mexico should be one of the RICHEST countries on earth! It has thousands of miles of warm water coast line and magnificnet ports, it has natural resources beyond measure, it has millions of hard working, religious, honest good people and it has a magnificent climate. I love the place and the people.

But it's poor because of its upside down legal system and its corruption. Can you imagine the impact on the economy and society of Baja, for instance, if there were a system like the USA had as we built our coutry in the 1870s to 1960s? Here's what that was:

1.)Universal Service and Price Averaging for utilities...that produced telephone, electric, gas, water and sewer service for everyone at a price they could afford in their simplest forms....for instance, a local phone cost the customer about 10% of its true cost and the loss was offset by higher charges for business service and long distance....a local phone was for ordering groceries, calling the cops and the doctor. Long distance was a "luxury." Those utilities were paid for by the customers and managed by governement regulated utilities or by goverment entities with the SPECIFIC GOAL OF INCREASING ECONOMIC STRENTH AND PUBLIC HEALTH AND EDUCATION.

2.)Good roads, railroads and airlines designed to promote commerce. The road south of San Felipe, for instance, is a great big resistor in the circuit of commerce....nothing will ever make that area rich as long as you can't deliver the goods.

We built the railroads with land grants and we built the airlines with postal contracts. They have been there, like them or not now, for a century and they made us rich.

President Eisenhower pushed the construction of the Interstate Road System that we currently need in the early 1950s...what would America be like today without it? What would Mexico be like today if it had such a thing? Why didn't it produce one? You know the reason and so does anyone who will think about it.

3.)Universal Public Education with an emphasis on civics and our constitutional history....on the power of "The Melting Pot" and the contributions made by assimilated legal imigrants from all over the world. 50 years ago every school kid could recite the Gettysburg Address and quote the words on the base of the Statue of Liberty. They could also read and write in English!....or they were flunked out.

Etc. Without these legal, political and cultural keys to our prosperity we would look like Mexico or Poland. But, I'll bet a whole bunch against a doughnut that 99% of the people reading this never heard of the stuff above....that they don't know any of the reasons we are fat, dumb and happy today. And you can bet yer gluteus that these facts are not taught in any school.

Take a trip to China and you will see a vastly bigger version of the USA 100 years ago...all those utilities and aids to education, health and commerce are being built. But not in Mexico...or here either any more....WHY?

It would be very nice if we had OPEN BORDERS! But that means OPEN BOTH WAYS!! .....funny how we hear so much about how nice open borders would be from Mexicans but with the insistence that the door only swings north.

If we really had open borders...if Gringos could really go to Mexico and buy land, establish businesses and put heat on local politicians to produce the public utility services above....the place would change pretty fast. We might even find some "illegals" going home.....might even find some Gringos flooding south the way the illegals have flooded north.

You know what? I think that those both way open borders are what Bush, Fox and Whatshisname from Canada agreed on down at the ranch five years ago. That might be why Bush and our gummint ain't too interested in cleaning up the current mess they have created.

Now enough common sense and logic. Let's have a little fantasy: How about putting the cannibals back on Isla Tiburon and letting them live off of corrupt politicans as they are discovered and shipped out there....both flavors...Gringo and Mexican. Boy, we'd have some overweight cannibals

Skeet you are smarter than you think

Pomp

that was 1968. over 800 killed.

just something i found

>Subject: US Citizens Working in Mexico....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>The following from a director with SW BELL in Mexico City.
>
>
>
>I spent five years working in Mexico.
>
>
>
>I worked under a tourist visa for three months and could legally renew it
>for three more months. After that you were working illegally. I was
>technically illegal for three weeks waiting on the FM3 approval.
>
>
>
>uring that six months our Mexican and US Attorneys were working to secure
>a
>permanent work visa called a FM3. It was in addition to my US passport that
>I had to show each time I entered and left the country. Barbara's was the
>same except hers did not permit her to work.
>
>
>
>To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized originals
>(not copies) of my:
>
>1. Birth certificates for Barbara and me.
>
>
>
>2. Marriage certificate.
>
>
>
>3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.
>
>
>
>4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of
>graduation.
>
>
>
>
>5. Two letters of recommendation from supervisors I had worked for at
>least
>one year.
>
>
>
>6. A letter from The ST. Louis Chief of Police indicating I had no arrest
>record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was "a citizen in good
>standing."
>
>
>
>7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated why
>there was no Mexican citizen with my skills and why my skills were
>important
>to Mexico. We called it our "I am the greatest person on earth" letter. It
>was fun to write.
>
>All of the above were in English that had to be translated into Spanish and
>be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It
>produced
>a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and Spanish
>on
>the right.
>
>
>
>Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours accompanied
>by
>a Mexican attorney touring Mexican government office locations and being
>photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location (and
>we remember at least four locations) we were instructed on Mexican tax,
>labor, housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their
>laws or face the consequences. We could not protest any of the government's
>actions or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand
>dollars in fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we
>could legally bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in
>Loredo Texas. This meant we rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our
>goods. There were extensive fees involved here that the company paid.
>
>
>
>We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates and
>under contract and compliance with Mexican law.
>
>
>
>We were required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing
>process. The company arranged for the licensing agency to come to our
>headquarters location with their photography and finger print equipment and
>the laminating machine. We showed our US license, were photographed and
>fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a six
>dollar fee. We did not take a written or driving test and never received
>instructions on the rules of the road. Our only instruction was never give
>a
>policeman your license if stopped and asked. We were instructed to hold it
>against the inside window away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it
>you
>would have to pay ransom to get it back.
>
>
>
>We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number of
>our FM3 as our ID number. The companies Mexican accountants did this for us
>and we just signed what they prepared. I was about twenty legal size pages
>annually.
>
>
>
>The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after paying
>more fees.
>
>
>
>Leaving the country meant turning in the FM# and certifying we were leaving
>no debts behind and no outstanding legal affairs (warrants, tickets or
>liens) before our household goods were released to customs.
>
>
>
>It was a real adventure and If any of our senators or congressmen went
>through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico.
>
>
>
>The Mexican Government uses its vast military and police forces to keep its
>citizens intimidated and compliant. They never protest at their White House
>or government offices but do protest daily in front of the United States
>Embassy. The US embassy looks like a strongly reinforced fortress and
>during
>most protests the Mexican Military surround the block with their men
>standing shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear to protect the Embassy.
>These protests are never shown on US or Mexican TV. There is a large public
>park across the street where they do their protesting. Anything can cause a
>protest such as proposed law changes in California or Texas.
>
>
>
>Please feel free to share this with everyone who thinks we are being hard
>on
>illegal immigrants.
>
>
>
>

Every time we go to Baja, I get my FMT at the start of the trip. Each trip I tell my wife that I cannot do all the chores she would like as it is illegal in Baja; I would be putting a local out of a job and could be arrested. I beg her to hire a local to do her bidding so I won't be in jeopardy of jail time.

So far she hasn't bought it, but I'm not giving up yet !!