It is only the rarest of Mexicans who, once they give their word , would ever think of going back on it. Regardless of class, from the poorest to
that rare middle class, and beyond to the elite.
Shake a hand, smile, and it will be as it was with the old New England traders of a hundred years ago.
The wind is in my hair and I feel Baja of 50 years ago! I smile and think of my many Mexican friends who always honored their word. And went beyond!
Next, I think of the many gringos who have no understanding of what that means?a simple smile, a shake of the hand so important
A thing that you can take to the bank in Mexico ?and it will be honored even a hundred years in the future.
A simple but most important difference!
Agreed... except...
djh - 4-22-2006 at 07:15 PM
I agree Bernie, and I love that... especially since my personal motto is:
"Say what you mean, Mean what you say, and DO what you say you will do, ESPECIALLY if someone is depending on you." My old Irish grandfather (RIP)
used to say "I'd rather break my arm than break my word" - and I admire that now, nearly 50 years later, as much as I did then...
I would only offer one exception... I have discovered that several of my newer Mexican friends in Loreto, whom I've wanted to hire to do a small
project or two sometimes over-commit. I honestly believe that it is simply because it is so difficult (and perhaps considered a cultural taboo... not
sure) for them to say "no".
I don't let it bug me.... Baja time is a bit mystical at times and I'm learning to adjust
djh
Djh
Baja Bernie - 4-22-2006 at 07:27 PM
I was so hoping for a response like yours. The truth has it own rewards.
Saying No is a really hard thing for most Mexicans to do! Just realize that they always wish to make you happy when they enter into this mode.
Thanks
[Edited on 4-23-2006 by Baja Bernie]Oso - 4-22-2006 at 07:44 PM
Estimado Don Bernardo, my most sincere apology for what I have to say, but you are full of it. Your vision is clouded by what must certainly be many
good experiences and I concur that many, perhaps a majority, of Mexicans are indeed "formal" in their commitments. But, you have been lucky in having
few dealings with those who are not. They exist. Probably in roughly the same proportion of the populace as any other ethnic group. I agree that
many tend to overcommit without malice aforethought and then ... well, stuff happens, something comes up and one is not able to carry out one's
intentions. Then, as in any society, there are those who never had any intention of delivering- fortunately a minority. Bottom line, it comes down
to the caliber of the individual and you simply cannot depend on generalizations.capn.sharky - 4-22-2006 at 07:46 PM
If the abouve is true, then why do so many not show up for work on time? Why are things not ready when they say they will be. Not always, but enough
of the time to make one wary. For instance, I put my Myers Manx into a shop in Loreto for a minor repair. It has now been nine months and it is
still there. The owner is always gracious and has a perfectly good excuse....men quit, too much work, etc. Always, come back at 4:00 this afternoon
and I will have it ready. Better question, is why have I left it there all this time? Well, free storage.jerry - 4-22-2006 at 08:08 PM
i find that most intentions are good but something more important comes up and gets in the way like in the old days in the usa id go to a old friend
to get something done for me and he was a wizz at his profession and he allways told me he was way too busy we would talk all afternoon he not doing
a thing and at the end he wold tell me to comeby in the morning and he would have the 15 minuite job readdy
if i asked how mutch it would cost he allways said if you gotta ask you cant afford me then charged me like nothing at
all people make room for what they want to do im guilty myself
but my word is my bond
so the answer is ill try if im going to try
dont count on it if im doughtfull
Oso
Baja Bernie - 4-22-2006 at 08:26 PM
Sadly............Interesting! But you, my friend miss the point!
[Edited on 4-23-2006 by Baja Bernie]vandenberg - 4-22-2006 at 08:37 PM
Quote:
For instance, I put my Myers Manx into a shop in Loreto for a minor repair. It has now been nine months and it is still question, is why have I left
it there all this time? Well, free storage.
Did you have a tail put on that manx.? Isn't that a pussy with no tail?Dave - 4-22-2006 at 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by capn.sharky
If the abouve is true, then why do so many not show up for work on time? Why are things not ready when they say they will be.
Because they know that they can get away with it. The labor laws are severely slanted in favor of the worker. It's virtually impossible to fire anyone
for cause and not pay full severance and benefits.
And the sole proprietor is just as handicapped. If his suppliers don't do business in a timely fashion then how can he guarantee that
his work will be completed on time?
PC Bulls**t!
Dave - 4-22-2006 at 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
Saying No is a really hard thing for most Mexicans to do! Just realize that they always wish to make you happy when they enter into this mode.
I used to buy into this theory. But I've experienced it too many times to believe the BS. Not saying 'NO' is a cop-out. It's misdirection that makes
the person saying it feel better.
Let's call a spade a spade.
It's lying.bajalera - 4-22-2006 at 09:49 PM
Along with Oso, I apparently missed the point.
It seemed to me the point was that every living soul in Mexico is a saintly true-blue, while Gringolandia has more than its share of folks who just
can't be trusted. My personal experiences have been about the same in both place--nearly always very good, with a bummer now and then just to let me
know it's not a perfect world. I just don't buy sweeping one-size-fits-all generalizations.Oso - 4-22-2006 at 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
Sadly............Interesting! But you, my friend miss the point!
[Edited on 4-23-2006 by Baja Bernie]
Bern, would you care to reiterate the point, just for the sake of clarification?bajalera - 4-22-2006 at 10:57 PM
Steve is off doing research this weekend so the SUV isn't in the driveway. At around 11:35 I had turned off the lights and was ready to call it a day
when our three dogs started barking up a storm.
Looked out, and here were a couple of guys trying to make it over our fence, which is pretty high. Went out to say "Que quiere" [no friendly
second-person conjugation for intruders] but no one was there with a friendly Mexican smile. Bummer!
I rest my case, and good night.Skeet/Loreto - 4-23-2006 at 01:28 AM
Many good words and advice.
The keeping of a "Mans" word and the benefit of his "Making a Deal on a Handshake " is not completely gone.
I found the Mexican people, before the advent of roads and TV ,to be very much like the People of many places in the States, Montana, Texas, Arizona
and mostly those who had a "Country background." Where the values of their Faith were strong.
I met Alvaro Murillo Romero in 1968 on my first time in Loreto, he is and has been my best Friend, each of us saving each others lives on the Sea Of
Cortez, since that time. On the other Hand one of his brothers is the opposite.
I now find that the People of The Texas Panhandle still practice the "Your word is your Honor', but that to is changing as the detersation of our
culture contuines.
The keeping of you word is the basis of your character!!
People are People, no matter their Color,Location.
I was a "HOBO" from 1948 to 1950, living on the rails all over the Western United States.At that time your word was your Bond!I have Hitched Hiked in
Baja from the North to the South on many occasions in the past.
Times have changed, both of our cultures have changed. If you are to Judge remember " Judge not or yee will be Judged!!
The Acts of the person will dertimine his character, not his words.
Anon The Preacher
Skeet/Loreto
Skeeter the Preacher
capn.sharky - 4-23-2006 at 07:55 AM
Has a ring to it, verdad? My favorite is "go forth and multiply". But then, I plan to reincarnate as a jackrabbit in Baja.
I still practice the handshake and my word. In 1975 I sold my home to buy the one we live in now. $35,000 (that was good money back then). Another
couple looking the same time at our open house offered me $10,000 more for the house. I couldn't take it but told them if the buyer couldn't qualify I
would sell it to them. That was one quick escrow. This thread brings up a good point about Baja....if you tell a Mexican you are going to do
something for him---you had better follow through on it. If you don't your credability will be shot in that Pueble. I doesn't work the other
way---but, by golly, they will hold you to your promise.Taco de Baja - 4-23-2006 at 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by capn.sharky
If the abouve is true, then why do so many not show up for work on time? Why are things not ready when they say they will be.
Well as I see it, although the people I have met in Baja are true to their word...there is another underlying philosophy in all Mexico that coexists
with the honesty....It's often known as "The Ma?ana Complex". David K - 4-23-2006 at 09:34 AM
Having a friend who is a hard working Mexican businessman, one learns that this attitude of ma?ana or not showing up for work on time or keeping
appointments, etc. is just as frustrating to Mexicans as it is Americans. The difference is that the Mexican businessman expects it.
My friend will add the phrase 'Mexican time' after saying when... like "I will be there at 11 am... Mexican time". Of course he adds the term 'Mexican
time' after he shows up late!
Viva Baja Viva Mexico
Oso/Dave
Baja Bernie - 4-23-2006 at 09:59 AM
You both make some good and true points and I guess that it makes no sense to attempt to counter them. I am often accused of being far to caring and
trusting of my fellow man?particularly of my Mexican friends. I suppose that you would find that funny because you all know I was a cop for 25 years.
I like to think that I am a wonderful judge of character particularly after I get a chance to ?look people in the eye.?
Forty-five years of basically being in the same general location (in Baja)and making friends that have held that title (and yes, Pompano, I am aware
of the real meaning of that most overused word) for many years. I have found that our cultural outlooks have a tendency to merge and we all become
more patient and understanding where we are coming from.
I guess I have, indeed, been most fortunate in my choice of friends and far more blessed in my Mexican friendships than in my mostly, acquaintances,
with my American ?friends.?
Yep! That?s it. My Mexican friends have the time and inclination to sit, talk, and learn exactly who I am, as I am privileged to learn about them
and their families. Contrast this to my American friends who don?t seem to have the time, or the real desire, to understand or care about who I
really am or what I care about in this life.
I know that many of you have had more experience in this area than I but I still insist on stopping to smell the flowers as I wander through my life
AND I would prefer to be called na?ve, caring, and to trusting.(But I can assure you that I do know how to protect me and mine) I salute and value my
Mexican friends?and I do understand that they come from many different places.TMW - 4-23-2006 at 11:44 AM
In the early 90s I was chief engineer for KNSD-TV 39 in San Diego. The chief photograher was Danny Mendez. Danny came up with the ideal to pardner
with XEWT-TV12 in Tijuana for news stories. Myself, Danny,our GM, news director and business manager started meeting with the chief engineer and the
vice president/GM and a few others from XEWT. After several meetings on how things would be done and how many news talent and photogs would be
exchanged etc. we had what we thought was a deal. Handshakes and promises and a tentative start date were made.
A few days later I was having lunch with the chief engineer of KGTV ch10 in San Diego. During the lunch he mentioned that KGTV had just worked out a
deal with XEWT to start exchanging news stories and personnel. I never said anything at the time. When I got back to the station I told my GM what I
heard. He called a management meeting to discuss it. During the meeting Danny Mendez told us it must be a mistake, that when a Mexican gives his word
with a handshake it was a deal as good as gold. After the meeting Danny was to find out what was going on. The next day Danny was sad to say that XEWT
had made a deal with KGTV and we were out. I was sorry to see our deal fall through because I did like Jose Luis Guasch, the vice president at XEWT,
he was a very interesting man.
[Edited on 4-23-2006 by TW]Skeet/Loreto - 4-23-2006 at 02:19 PM
Bernie: I too have had a Cop{Officer} background; Starting in Hollywood as a Special Investigator in 1959;
Hollywood was just getting "Candy Barr" on the Strip I had 3 years of good work until I refused to forge an Appliciation on a Dealers license for an
Inportant Person. The chief Special Investigator send mysel and a half white/half black guy to South Central as punishment.
3 months later I turned in my Badge and left. Kept my gun as I had to pay for it.
3 weeks later the Chief was indicited send to chino on a 4 and 14 sentence.
he was getting $5000 a piece to move a name up the List to get a Cadilaic.
He ended up giving out Drivers lic, to the releases out Of Chino for a few years.
Decided that I was too small for Law enforcement.
If you can get a copy of"the Green Felt Jungle" you will see part of the story.
Too get back to the Thread; I have found that the People of Baja are the most inportant part of Baja, hidden among the Beauty, it is the same in the
States,it is just that we have failed to instill the Character in some, not all of our children and Grand children.
Anon The Preacher
"In God I Trust"
Skeet
Baja Bernie - 4-23-2006 at 02:32 PM
I remember you talking about your law enforcement background at the first Pyramid Resort book signing. Really enjoyed meeting you and I never
noticed anything small about you. You are a guy to ride the river with.Oso - 4-23-2006 at 03:50 PM
Bernie,
As the late, great W.C. Fields used to say:
"Trust everybody, but cut the cards."Dave - 4-23-2006 at 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
Bernie,
As the late, great W.C. Fields used to say:
"Trust everybody, but cut the cards."
He also said something about never drinking water.
But I don't think he had Mexico in mind. Oso - 4-23-2006 at 05:50 PM
Different sources quote him with various euphemisms of what the greater number say was " I never drink water, fish f***k in it."
His role as Whipsnade, the smalltime circus owner, was my favorite. Many great lines: "Who left the cork off my lunch?". He was definitely not PC
for his time. There was a great scene with the actor (forgot the name) who later became "Rochester" to Jack Benny: Fields: "I'm looking for the
head Ubangi." 'Rochester, scowling': "You wouldn't be talkin bout one o us colored boys, would you, boss?" Fields: "No, I need the head Ubangi,
got a little job for him, worth five dollars." 'Rochester': " Oh, you mean the HEAD Ubangi..."
[Edited on 4-24-2006 by Oso]Dave - 4-23-2006 at 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Oso
There was a great scene with the actor (forgot the name) who later became "Rochester" to Jack Benny
That would be Eddie "Rochester" Anderson.
(And you misspelled flock.)Oso - 4-24-2006 at 02:12 PM
Dave, thanks for the correction, I wouldn't want to be guilty of misquoting. BTW, Wikipedia has some interesting material on the etymology of the
word, including it's modern Hebrew equivalent.tippytoestrish - 4-24-2006 at 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Times have changed, both of our cultures have changed. If you are to Judge remember " Judge not or yee will be Judged!!
Anon The Preacher
Skeet/Loreto
Actually, Daddy; the quote is a little off; its not really judge not, OR you will be judged. The premise is that everyone WILL be judged, eventually,
by the one qualified to do so; however, while on earth, dealing with fellow man, we should have a good amount of grace (that we are also shown). For
if we are harsh in our judgements of others, we will, in turn, reap a harsh judgement against ourselves. I guess you taught me to enjoy a good
debate!
Everyone we deal with in life deserves our best character and initial trust; however, people are people, and we all mess up now and then. So, in the
words of Dorie; "just keep swimming, just keep swimming..."
Thanks Toes!
Skeet/Loreto - 4-25-2006 at 03:22 AM
Now everyone knows what I have had to put up with ever.
since she Graduated!!!
I think that the best thing to do is have you teach me how t pass that test they call a GRE on our trip South, so come prepared .
She left me at 15 years old to go to Australia as an exchange Student, not for three months,but for a year!!
Came back a Young Lady at 16.
Can still remember the Ole heart pounding as she got on the Airplane to depart.
Skeet/Loreto
Anon The Preacher
Skeeter Peter
SkeetTexas
And last but Best "Daddy"
"In God I Trust"
Skeet
Baja Bernie - 4-25-2006 at 07:08 AM
First time I found when you didn't argue when gently corrected. Comforting to see you both interacting in this fashion. (Not the greatest sentence I
ever put together--but it will do.)
Did the apple fall close to the tree?tippytoestrish - 4-26-2006 at 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Bernie
First time I found when you didn't argue when gently corrected. Comforting to see you both interacting in this fashion. (Not the greatest sentence I
ever put together--but it will do.)
Did the apple fall close to the tree?
Perish the thought--but, yes, in many ways. And I hope he'll see what I've seen these past few years, that perhaps the roots of the old tree absorbed
some of the fertilizer of the fruit lying on the ground underneath??? What do you say, pops? Tenemos un buen tiempo, no?
And I DON'T speak Cathtillian Thpanith, just properly enunciated Mexican Spanish, that no one else understands! And when did Buenos Dias get changed
to Weno Dia?
No wonder I can't figure out what anyone else is saying!!!Skeet/Loreto - 4-26-2006 at 07:32 PM
Yes Daughter:
I can still see the look on the face of Rodrigo{A Mountain Man from near San Javier when Trish spoke to him in correct Spanish.
At that time many of my friends had only been to about the 3 rd Grade level of Education!
When Luis Portillo became President he started building Schools His moto was "The Future of Mexico is in the Children" , later he left Mexico after
his term in a Cessna 421 and crossed the border into the States with the 421 full of Pesos!!
I have been around Alvaro for many years and we understand each other,but Rodigio I still do not understand!
And yes Bernie, she wants to get her Pilots Certificate someday.
The Fruit multiples!!
