BajaNomad

Daily logs for 2003 Expedition to Baja

elgatoloco - 11-16-2003 at 04:34 PM

http://www.sdnhm.org/research/aguaverde/index.html

Family Guy - 11-16-2003 at 04:41 PM

Thanks for the post. I knew there was a reason I liked to check this board.

Looks like they are keeping

Tucker - 11-16-2003 at 09:39 PM

us up to date! Another article relating to the area just south of there is published in Fred Metcalf's website.

http://math.ucr.edu/ftm/bajaPages/Tales/Mechudo.html



[Edited on 11-17-2003 by Tucker]

And in up to date life

Ski Baja - 11-16-2003 at 10:00 PM

I have a more recent story regarding El Mechudo at http://groups.msn.com/TheBajasBestGuidesPhotoAlbum
I have looked into this "legend" and upon actual investigation, it is not considered a legend amongst the families that live down there but actual history.
Don't know about the modern embellishments as far as plane crashes n stuff. The locals new nothing about that.
And, thanks for the trips update.

jerry - 11-16-2003 at 10:17 PM

looks like another witch hunt to me .So the so called Invioromentalists the ones that dont fight fires the ones that live in citys ascard of getting off the sidewalk. There going to save us from our selves again. they will find another[ Spotted Owl Marble merolet both of witch are not indangered]
or some other excuse to file a law suit and make money off the fools as well as take a few rights away. its not just in the U.S. its spreading every time you give them an inch .So they will tell you we want to save it for the next generation?? well when they get done you can sent your future generagion to a glass view box so what did they really save?? true conservation is and will allways be done by the ppl who care and live there a balance and education is necessary radical groups are just led by a few who profit from the well meaning young who think there doing us all a favor just jerry

Mother nature

Ski Baja - 11-16-2003 at 10:43 PM

Fortunately Jerry, Ma Nature seems to be telling them where they can and can't go. She has been doing this for many many years in that region which is why it is still undiscovered. At least by a bunch of whining scientists!:lol: There story and finds are interesting but as long as it's windy and miserable, "they didn't tell me it was going to be like this". hahahahahaha! Thes "professionals" are dropping bagged rattlesnakes in each others laps. Sounds like another "professional" american expedition to me.
Hope they discover "El Mechudo".

jerry - 11-16-2003 at 11:17 PM

watch it happen there will be i big dicovery?? when the news media will pick it up
law suits against anyone that has money some will surcum to the bucks and say there right
more law suits more money till they figureed they got the most they can and then poof there gone hmmmmm inviromentalests??? i dont think so just jerry p. s. i dont think this is in the protesters hand book?? lol

elgatoloco - 11-17-2003 at 08:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jerry
watch it happen there will be i big dicovery?? when the news media will pick it up
law suits against anyone that has money some will surcum to the bucks and say there right
more law suits more money till they figureed they got the most they can and then poof there gone hmmmmm inviromentalests??? i dont think so just jerry p. s. i dont think this is in the protesters hand book?? lol


huh?:yawn:

Skeet/Loreto - 11-17-2003 at 09:47 AM

Thanks for the godd Reports. I see from the Reports that the people are experiencing the sameof that Area that I encontered each time I was able to last it out for 4 or 5 Days.
They have learned that a Panga is a rough ride but will get you through very rough Water.
The sankes are abundabt and will contiune to be there 100's of years from now.
I doubt that we will see the same reacation from the "Scientist" it takes a Crazy Nut to go in there and stay for any length of time!
If you have watched the slow growth of Agua Verde you will realize that it will not grow out of hand because of the Bad Winds.The same as with Montana and its cold weather.Pop has actually dropped there, sao do not worry to much folks these Youngins that are being produced these days do Not have the desires to "Rough it" too much.

I must give those people the Hand for attempting and completing their Task.
Sure hope they save some of the Snakes for J>R> and me. Thanks Skeet/Loreto

elgatoloco - 11-18-2003 at 06:32 PM

Day 13 is up!!! :cool:

richard nauman - 11-19-2003 at 09:56 AM

What's up with all the anti-science stuff? There's a lot of cool wildlife/geology/botany stuff to be learned in Baja and the folks involved in this project are top notch. I would expect that you guys would give them the same courtesy that everybody deserves and talk to them before leaving such mean spirited messages. Jerry your biology is no better than your spelling.
RN

elgatoloco - 11-19-2003 at 11:05 AM

Day 14

http://www.sdnhm.org/research/aguaverde/log11-17.html#thirte...

jimmy smith - 11-23-2003 at 11:20 AM

Fascinating stuff--I suspect Eva's desert mouse was named for Miss Eva Ewing--long time benefactor and particapator in the Meseum of Natural History.
Can someone check this for me?

Neal Johns - 1-8-2004 at 11:14 AM

Sorry I'm too late for you on this earth, Jimmy, but maybe you can read it anyway.

Peromyscus eva was named by Thomas in 1898. Ms Ewing was not quite that old, the last time I saw her.

Anonymous - 1-8-2004 at 03:33 PM

There are no spelling or grammer checks on this site. We need to review are own post so others can make sense of what we are trying to say.

miss-identifications

Chris Holmstead - 1-9-2004 at 01:20 AM

Their Zebara tailed lizard is actually a Longnosed Leopard lizard. Their spade foot frog is a toad, but I doubt a spade foot. Their rare striped racer is found from baja all the way up to Washington, Their speckled rattler looks more like a rock rattler. And their red spotted toad is a toad, but it IS a Sapefoot toad, notice the balck around the red spots. At least they got the spiny lizard right, probably because it had spines.

I didn't have time to read the whole article tonight, maybe tommorow, but I looked at the pictures. It looked like a really good time. I'm just wondering why out of thirty of them no one thought to bring along The Audubon Society Nature Guide to Deserts. :?:

I know why

Ski Baja - 1-9-2004 at 09:54 AM

Because that was a party disguised as a scientific expedition. They were dropping snakes in each others laps, floundering around with the weather, and generally having a good time while pretending to be making discoveries. Typical foreign expedition sponsored by families with too much money.

elgatoloco - 1-9-2004 at 10:28 AM

Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without.

Chris - Identifications

richard nauman - 1-9-2004 at 01:15 PM

Chris,
While maybe they didn't bring along the The Audubon Society Nature Guide to Deserts, maybe they did bring Lee Grismer's Amphibians and Reptiles of Baja California published in 2002 by the University of California Press. While not cheap (around $100 as I remember) it is certainly the authoritative book on the subject written by the leading authority in the field. It's is full of up to date information and great pictures. I'd recommend it to all Baja adventurers. For a cheaper alternative I recommend Stebbins 2003 Western Reptiles and Amphibians from the Peterson's series or McPeak 2000 Amphibians and Reptiles of Baja California.

As to the Identification you write about here's my 2 cents -
The lizard labeled Zebra-tail lizard on day 3 is clearly a zebratail. The individual is a male and is distinguished by the 2 black bars on the ventral surface of the body. Leopard lizards do not have these distinctive marks and while new discoveries are always possible they are not known from the region of the expedition.

The Couch's spadefoot on day 10 is clearly a spadefoot. The only other species of toad like animal in Baja California Sur is the red-spotted toad which has distinctive red "warts" over it's back and head. Couch's spadefoots are abundant in the Loreto and La Paz areas and I would assume that they are abundant on the coast between the 2 cities.

The racer that you are thinking of that occurs in Oregon and Washington (Coluber constrictor) is widespread in North and Central America and in places can be common. However, it is not known from Baja California and never has stripes. The snake pictured on day 6 is correctly labeled "Striped Racer (Masticophis lateralis)" . Common names are often confusing in this way. No previous records for this species exists in the expedition's area and prior to this trip it has only been found at 6 locations in Baja California Sur - making it rare in my opinion.

The great photo of the Speckled rattlesnake on day 6 is correctly labeled. The Black and White rings on it's tail just above the rattle are clearly visible. The only other rattlesnakes known from the area are the Red-diamond rattlesnake that has reddish marks on its back, the Baja California Rattlesnake that does not have the black and white markings on the tail. The rock rattlesnake is only found in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and mainland Mexico.

The link to red-spotted toads on day 15 leads to 2 pictures of juvenile red-spotted toads. In both pictures you can see the distinctive red spots and the raised glands behind the eyes that distinguish them from spadefoots. Couch's spadefoot is the only other toad like animal in the area and never has red on it and it lacks the raised glands behind the eyes.

Lastly, I wouldn't even try to confirm the species of the spiny lizard because there are 10 described species from Baja California and likely more with many of them hard to tell appart in the hand let alone from a picture.

So.... I'm not sure why you are so quick to slam some great people doing cool work. Nobody involved is getting rich off this stuff and generally getting a PhD and making a career out of natural history work is dooming yourself to a life of semi-poverty and hard work (but having a lot of fun at the same time). If you do an internet search on any of the scientists involved you can check out their credentials and publications. Next time maybe you should ask around or even email the people involved before firing off an post. I bet they would be happy to talk to you.

Ski Baja - why the negative attitude? I have a feeling these guys worked sunrise to well after dark. Money for these kinds of things is nearly impossible to get and with a bunch of PhD workaholics leading the thing they likely worked some long days and they managed to post short internet reports from the field. ?Families with too much money?? Maybe they should have bought tequila and quads and whooped it up in San Filipe instead or built a bunch of gated condos on the beach somewhere???


RN



[Edited on 1-9-2004 by richard nauman]

[Edited on 1-9-2004 by richard nauman]

[Edited on 1-9-2004 by richard nauman]

bajalera - 1-9-2004 at 02:01 PM

I've always liked that old giant-pearl legend.

And as soon as somebody shows me a giant pearl-oyster, I'll start believing it.

- bajalera

Priorities

Ski Baja - 1-9-2004 at 02:07 PM

Although I am not that pleased with either, I prefer the former to the latter. And you definitely seem to know of what you speak so I will slow down on my criticisms of professionals. Even if they are foreigners rather than the people that rightfully should be doing these investigations.
I hope they gave the locals some good things besides their trash when they left.

richard nauman - 1-9-2004 at 02:31 PM

Thanks, Ski.
Please check out the details of the trip at:
http://www.sdnhm.org/research/aguaverde/overview.pdf
It is much more than just foriegners. The expedition included the notable Mexican scientists:
Dr Jose Delgadillo from UABC
Dr. Jose Luis Leon de la Luz CIBNOR
M.C. Jorge Alaniz Garcia UABC
Dr. Patricia Galina CIBNOR
Dr. Oscar Flores UNAM
Jorge Valdez Viallavicencio UABC
Anny Peralta UABC
Dr. Eric Mellink CICESE
Jaime Luevano CICESE
Dr. Gorgonio Ruiz Campos UABC
Dr. Mike White UABC
Dr. Exquiel Ezcurra INE

I had the great opportunity to attend the annual meeting of the 3 big international herpetological societies (herpetology is the study of reptiles and amphibians) that was hosted in La Paz in June of 2000. It was fantastic. The govenor of BCS gave a welcome speech and many other local officials really helped make it a great event. There I got to meet many researchers from La Paz which has 3 major research centers (CIBNOR, UABC and CICESE). People come from all over Mexico and the world to attend these schools and I know several Americans who have choosen to attend grad school there rather than in the US for the quality of the education and the opportunities available. These people do 1st rate work and are leading researchers in fields as diverse as Biochemistry and Marine Biology. Sorry for the ramble but after many years banging around Baja I found this great community of people and I wish I was down there visiting right now. In Baja the more I look the more unexpected things I see. Como Mexico no hay dos!!!

I'd write more but I just bought a new pair of skis this morning and am headed out the door to ski down my street and out across the fields with my dog. If you ever see a tall gringo running through the cactus with a lizard noose in one hand and a Pacifico in the other stop and say hello.
RN

[Edited on 1-9-2004 by richard nauman]

On that last paragraph

Ski Baja - 1-9-2004 at 03:42 PM

Boy do I envy you Sir!! Not much of that out the door skiing going on in these parts.
In the mountains I run across some of the weirdest critters I have ever seen. If you are interested, I will start taking pictures of them when I stumble across them.
I have never really had an interest in bugs and as far as the plants go, I am very interested in the indigenous foods and medicinal plants which I am learning about every time I go down there.
Have you ever heard of Yerba de Manso ?
As far as running into you with your Lizard noose hahahahaha, it would certainly be a pleasure. You may even be interested in a mountain excursion some time ?????
I was going to put up a stick bug which would be weird for some but I thought this was a little more weird.