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KILLING BAJA

gringorio - 5-12-2006 at 12:35 PM

KILLING BAJA

Five reasons the Baja we know and love will be gone in a decade -- and what you can do to save it

By Serge Dedina

May 12th, 2005

http://www.wildcoast.net/mznews/archives/000153.html

Summertime's coming and just about everyone who lives for the long point waves of Baja believes in the Pristine Myth -- the conviction that Baja will be empty, desolate and wild -- forever. This delusion is at erroneous at best and dangerous at worst. The Baja California that drives us to live for that frenzied first round-the-bend glimpse of a pumping swell at a "secret" point we've surfed for the past quarter century is going fast and could disappear in ten years.

Here are five reasons why the Baja you love, the Baja you dream of, the Baja that makes you feel like a primeval surf explorer will no longer exist in a decade -- unless you take action to save it:

Energy Development. In the past four years some of the world's biggest energy companies -- Sempra, Shell, Chevron-Texaco, and Marathon Oil -- have either built or proposed the construction of liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminals along Baja's Pacific coast. Sempra-Shell is already halfway through a terminal that destroyed famed Harry's. Next on the list of doomed sites -- the Coronado Islands where Chevron-Texaco plans a massive facility, and Cabo Colonet, where a LNG terminal would also be housed to a major new port and industrial complex (see below).

Port Construction. The Port of Ensenada is planning a five billion dollar massive industrial, LNG and urban complex on one of the last pristine stretches of coastline between Ensenada and San Quintin at Cabo Colonet. This new port will be larger than the Ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles combined. The city associated with the Port will eventually rival Ensenada and will envelop every surf spot around Cuatros.

Marinas and Mega-Resorts. In 2003, John McCarthy, Mexico?s Chief of Tourism Development (FONATUR), announced plans to roll back a plan to build marinas at six point breaks on Baja's Pacific coast including Scorpion Bay and Punta Abreojos. Unfortunately, FONATUR recently announced plans for new marinas at Punta Abreojos and La Bocana. These projects are planned despite the fact that a similar marina at Santa Rosalillita is filed in with sand and will forever sit idle. Major resorts and marinas are also now on deck in Bahia de los Angeles, San Jose del Cabo, and Loreto.

The Baja Land Race. With the detonation of the second home market in Baja and the availability of once previously locked off coastal property (due to previous inability of ejidos or collective agrarian cooperatives to sell land), the race is on to buy up and develop every speck of coastal Baja. Even though under Mexican law coastal access is a right, after all of this development occurs, entry to the coast for visiting surfers and local rippers will become almost impossible.

Coastal Pollution. Runoff from the Tijuana River has made Imperial Beach, Coronado some the most polluted surf breaks in California. Just north of Baja Malibu, a creek at San Antonio delivers about 12 million gallons of sewage to the coast every day, 365 days a year. Development around San Miguel sends sewage right into the lineup after it rains. Cabo Pulmo the northernmost coral reef in North America, located in the heart of the East Cape, is severely threatened by septic tank related pollution. Expect new coastal development to pollute your favorite wave in Baja.

HOW YOU CAN HELP

Protect the Coast. You can protect the coastal property you own or plan to buy in Baja through a conservation easement -- a dedicated legally valid document that prohibits your land from ever being developed into a mega-resort even after you sell it. Email Saul Alarcon at saul@wildcoast.net to learn more on how to protect your beachfront property in Baja and get a tax break in the process.

Save San Ignacio Lagoon. WiLDCOAST, Pronatura, NRDC, and the International Community Foundation, recently protected 140,000-acres along the shoreline of San Ignacio Lagoon (midway between Abreojos and Scorpion Bay), in a project that also plans to conserve Punta Abreojos and the coast north of Scorpion Bay. You can help save one of Baja's great wilderness surfbreak areas for ten dollars an acre. Go to savethegraywhale.com and donate now.

Save Punta Abreojos. WiLDCOAST and the Natural Resources Defense Council have joined the Environmental Law Center of Mexico and the Group of 100 in challenging an inadequate environmental impact assessment for the newly planned Punta Abreojos marina, but we need your help. Please email the following Mexican government officials and let them know (respectfully) that you are opposed to building the FONATUR marina at Punta Abreojos that will destroy one of Baja?s most treasured waves and coastal ecosystems: Bi?logo Juan Ricardo Ju?rez Palacios, Direcci?n General de Impacto y Riesgo Ambiental (here) and Ing. Jos? Luis Luege Tamargo, Secretar?a de Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales (here). Please cc all emails to saul@wildcoast.net

Leave No Trace. Pack it in and pack it out. There are no suitable landfills anywhere in Baja at all. The accumulation of plastic from cities and from surf spots is a major source of ocean pollution. Every surfer who visits Baja can make a difference just by packing out trash. Go to www.lnt.org and learn about how to save your favorite Baja break from being overrun with garbage.

Clean up the Tijuana River. WiLDCOAST and our community partners on both sides of the border have launched an effort to clean up the Tijuana River (yes it can be done) and reduce beach closures in Playas de Tijuana, Imperial Beach and Coronado. Email Benjamin@wildcoast.net to have your surf club or business endorse our Clean Water Action Plan.

Party at the Waterman's Weekend. For the Surf Industry, the annual social calendar is capped by this summertime gala that provides a serious source of funding for organizations working to save Baja's surf breaks. This year the event takes place on August 4th and 5th at the St. Regis Monarch Beach Resort and Spa in Dana Point. Go to www.sima.com and buy your tickets now.

So get a reality check. Get active. Just don't pretend that the spot south of the border you live for with its once endless supply of crystal clean water and righteous wave is going to wait for you forever. --Serge Dedina

If you care about our surf spots, sign up for Surfline's new EnviroAlert Email List. We'll keep you informed about when a spot's in danger -- and what you can do to help save it.

About the author: The Executive Director of WiLDCOAST, Serge Dedina grew up a couple of miles from the U.S-Mexico border fence and took his first trip to Baja back in 1972. He can be located at sdedina@wildcoast.net or surfing his home break of Imperial Beach -- when it's not polluted.

woody with a view - 5-12-2006 at 12:54 PM

too bad the email links for the biologists are not active...

Quote:

Bi?logo Juan Ricardo Ju?rez Palacios, Direcci?n General de Impacto y Riesgo Ambiental (here) and Ing. Jos? Luis Luege Tamargo, Secretar?a de Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales (here).

nor are they actice on the wildcoast site... i sent an email to the author asking for the info and will post here if i get a reply.

[Edited on 5-12-2006 by woody in ob]

[Edited on 5-12-2006 by woody in ob]

Dead and Gone

MrBillM - 5-12-2006 at 12:57 PM

The Los Angeles I knew and loved as a child has been gone for a lot of years. Inglewood went from being an idyllic town when I was a child to a ghetto where life is cheap. The Beach towns I loved from Manhattan to Redondo are ruined, too. They ruined the surfing at Dana Point when they built the marina. In Baja, San Felipe started the downhill slide in the late 70s.

That's Life. That's Progress (or so they say). No matter how many "little" things any of us do, it will have no impact on the macro picture in Baja that is being driven by HUGE amounts of investment dollars. Enjoy it while you can. There will be no turning back.

MrBillM---You are right, of course-----

Barry A. - 5-12-2006 at 01:06 PM

----but once again I ask, "Where is the fresh water"???? Are desal plants really going to be the answer????

Personally, I doubt it.

The Sculpin - 5-12-2006 at 01:25 PM

How ironic that the surf industry is having their little get together at a one time secret spot. Where the hell where they when that hotel went up?

This also brings out another irony of the surf scene, at least in california.....that surfing is inherently an enviornmental disaster and a very selfish sport! Aloha be damned, nobody wants to share the waves with 100 other surfers. I have some friends that claim to have found the last unspoiled surf zone, and after hearing what they have to do to get there, I believe it! Personally, I will not risk being eaten by animal or human to surf alone, so it's off to to baja I go, and I better not see the likes of any of you there....(yea right..).

Back to my point, let's have a fundraiser at a place we couldn't protect, to raise money to save another place that's not even in our own country, and while not perfect, could actually help the lives of the people who actually live there!

Where do I sign up!?!?

mo water woes

Sharksbaja - 5-12-2006 at 01:28 PM

exactly my thoughts Barry.. Also, it's silly waht they say bout the trash cbecause there are many sites suitable for burial. Just need to dig a big hole.

[Edited on 5-12-2006 by Sharksbaja]

gringorio - 5-12-2006 at 01:40 PM

They have done, and are doing, more than several here who always seem to find fault with thoughtful, proactive efforts to protect the environment - the very places that many of you visit and use.

There's so many pessimists here... "That's Life" ?? Give me a break! :lol:

http://www.wildcoast.net/

http://www.propeninsula.org/

http://portal.semarnat.gob.mx/semarnat/portal

http://www.profepa.gob.mx/profepa

http://www.ine.gob.mx/

Quote:

Originally posted by The Sculpin
How ironic that the surf industry is having their little get together at a one time secret spot. Where the hell where they when that hotel went up?

This also brings out another irony of the surf scene, at least in california.....that surfing is inherently an enviornmental disaster and a very selfish sport! Aloha be damned, nobody wants to share the waves with 100 other surfers. I have some friends that claim to have found the last unspoiled surf zone, and after hearing what they have to do to get there, I believe it! Personally, I will not risk being eaten by animal or human to surf alone, so it's off to to baja I go, and I better not see the likes of any of you there....(yea right..).

Back to my point, let's have a fundraiser at a place we couldn't protect, to raise money to save another place that's not even in our own country, and while not perfect, could actually help the lives of the people who actually live there!

Where do I sign up!?!?

[Edited on 5-13-2006 by gringorio]

Gringorio

Sharksbaja - 5-12-2006 at 02:03 PM

damn ("exactly my thoughts Mr. Bill".) is not who I meant to address, it was Barrys' statement bout water..Also, it's silly waht they say bout the trash cbecause there are many sites suitable for burial. Just need to dig a big hole.

I do feel a voice is necessary to slow or reign-in the massive growth happening. Some groups are serious players and in need I believe. But Mexico can manage much development if they want to. It's always easier to take the cash and worry later(IF THAT EVER HAPPENS?)

i'll go back and fix that oopsy.

capt. mike - 5-12-2006 at 02:06 PM

Follow the money....................and it will dictate what happens.
beyond that.......not much anyone can do about progress.

shari - 5-12-2006 at 02:32 PM

When I first saw the secret surf break near Bahia Asuncion (where I now live) I immediately thought that someone should buy this chunk of land to protect it and I spoke to some local surfers who surf there and planted the idea of getting together and purchasing the land around the break before developers did....problem was none of has had 2 five pesos to rub together so now what? I like the idea of saving something by buying it and it's really the only way to go. A pal of mine got lots of bear lovers together and bought out a trophy hunters grizzly bear territory to protect the bears and it worked! (for that small area anyway). So you surfers who are bummed about Abreojos...maybe you should buy this land. It's a free for all around here as the ejido is selling it all pretty cheap. So all of you who gripe about wild baja disappearing....make an investment and buy some land and keep it wild!

The Sculpin - 5-12-2006 at 02:39 PM

Ever hear of "The Ranch" - Hollister Ranch in Santa Barbara, California? Talk about exclusivity......you get a bunch of surfers to own land, and you either end up with no access, or a surf camp! Surfers are no diferrent than developers when it comes to putting up hard, cold cash for something. Surfers aren't the problem, it's the affluence of the industrialized countries. You have a ton of older people, with a ton of cash, who have no problem paying 10 or 15 times the local price fopr something because it's still damn cheap compared to where they're escaping from. The baby boom generation (I are one) has and will use it's affluance to recreate the world in their image. It's a very different view of manifest destiny!

tim40 - 5-12-2006 at 02:46 PM

Shari I am sooooo with you. I have made that same comment several times on several threads. It is changing...and every rapidly. Buy and control is your best (not full proof...even here in the US) chance to influence the future.

I recall when a certain piece of pristine Sea of Cortez frontage was for sale for 1M a few short years ago. Many were griping about how it could be so and how wrong it was. I suggest coop of 200 shares to acquire...I realize many of us at times can't afford...but many can...this same land is now not on the market and would be valued 5-10x the 1M. To be one of 200 hunderd to own that type of frontage....and responsible manage...that is possible...but the clock is ticking...

surfer jim - 5-12-2006 at 03:49 PM

Capt. Mike got it right......

Bruce R Leech - 5-12-2006 at 06:52 PM

I think you all have good points on this, but where are we going to get the 50 billion to buy the rest of Baja Ca. :?:

Pessimists

MrBillM - 5-12-2006 at 07:36 PM

I prefer to think of myself as a realist.

Funny thing, over the years most of the "pessimistic" views I have held have come to pass.

Wonder how this one will turn out ? Any betting ?

bajabound2005 - 5-12-2006 at 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gringorioThere's so many pessimits here... "That's Life" ?? Give me a break! :lol:

What exactly is a "pessimits" --- is that Spanish for pessimist?

Aside from that - as non Mexican citizens, what can WE do to stop this?

tim40 - 5-12-2006 at 10:40 PM

On this site alone we could come up with 15M IF we were interested without having to hoc our primary homes. If it sounds like Ripley's believe it or not, just do the math. In some terms, reads like a lot of money....but even today, that will buy mucho prime turf in baja.....

if you care to make your voice heard

woody with a view - 5-13-2006 at 08:07 AM

send your views to the following:

rijuarez@semarnat.gob.mx

c.secretario@semarnat.gob.mx

cc: saul@wildcoast.net

it may not do any good, but every time you mention santa rosalillita maybe they will give some more thought to the future instead of just building another unfunctional landmark/monstrosity.

Bob H - 5-13-2006 at 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capt. mike
Follow the money....................and it will dictate what happens.
beyond that.......not much anyone can do about progress.

Capt Mike, again you have hit the nail on the head!
Bob H

Nautical Ladder

Sharksbaja - 5-13-2006 at 12:27 PM

Quote:

These projects are planned despite the fact that a similar marina at Santa Rosalillita is filed in with sand and will forever sit idle.

What does this mean for the project?? I am confused. I thought the Nautica Escalera project was scaled down and still in the works. No?

woody with a view - 5-13-2006 at 12:48 PM

in march the quesadilla telegraph at the marina was the mouth was closed due to a heavy sandbar that replentished itself as fast as they dredged it. no work had been done in a month. they were, however, furioulsy working on the road!!!

although an engineer probably has other ideas, the locals were calling it a lake. :lol:

my $.02 worth

woody with a view - 5-13-2006 at 02:16 PM

this is a copy of the email i wrote to the mentioned in the article. short and to the point. and probably useless....

Senors;

Please take the utmost care and planning BEFORE starting any construction on the marina planned for Punta Abreojos, BCS. The area is a SPECIAL surfing spot in addition to a vital fishery for the local population.

One only has to look at the disaster that is the marina at Santa Rosalillita, BCN to know what I'm refering to. PLEASE take some extra time to assess all of the options and to listen to all of the differing opinions.

Remember Santa Rosalillita?

Thank You,

Bob Wood

wilderone - 5-16-2006 at 10:02 AM

"That's Life. That's Progress (or so they say). No matter how many "little" things any of us do, it will have no impact on the macro picture in Baja that is being driven by HUGE amounts of investment dollars."

THIS IS EXACTLY THE ATTITUDE THAT PROMOTES, HASTENS, EXACERBATES AND ENCOURAGES THE KILLING OF BAJA.
If you had an ounce of courage, intelligence, drive and altruism, you could make a difference to stop the killing of Baja.
It IS every single LITTLE thing that each one of us can do, that will enable Baja to continue to be what it is. The technology is there to be utilized, and manpower exists, and the dollars would be forthcoming.
It only takes the courage, intelligence, drive and altruism of human beings to make it happen.

wilderone - 5-16-2006 at 10:07 AM

Use some of these contacts and make a difference:

"Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found the exact amount of injustice and wrongdoing which will be imposed on them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
Frederick Douglas, 1857

Edmund Burke once said, ?The only thing it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.?

Teresa Matamoros
Marketing Director
Baja California State Tourism Secretariat
Lic. Mar?a Teresa Matamoros Montes
Directora de Mercadotecnia
SECRETARIA DE TURISMO DEL ESTADO DE BAJA CALIFORNIA
Tels. (664) 634-6330 / 634-6574 Fax 634-7157
BAJA CALIFORNIA EL MAGICO NORTE DE LA PENINSULA
www.descubrebajacalifornia.com
www.discoverbajacalifornia.com

PRESIDENTE VICENTE FOX
RESIDENCIA OFICIAL DE LOS PINOS
COL. SAN MIGUEL CHAPULTEPEC
11850 MEXICO D.F.
MEXICO D.F.
EMAIL : ciudadano@presidencia.gob.mx

Mr. VICTOR LICHTINGER
SECRETARIA DEL MEDIO AMBIENTE Y RECURSOS NATURALES (SEMARNAT)
PERIFERICO SUR 4209
COL. JARDINES DE LA MONTA?A
TLALPAN
14210 MEXICO D.F. MEXICO

EMAIL: vlichtinger@semarnat.gob.mx

* Grupo de los Cien Internacional, A.C. *
Apartado Postal 41-523
Col. Virreyes
* Mexico D.F. 11001, Mexico *
* Fax (525)520-3577 *
<grupo100@laneta.apc.org>
FONATUR:
MISION
?Participar en la consolidaci?n del desarrollo sustentable del pa?s, a trav?s del fomento de la actividad tur?stica nacional?.

John McCarthy
FONDO NACIONAL DE FOMENTO AL TURISMO
Tecoyotitla No. 100
Col. Florida C.P. 01030 M?xico D.F.
Tel.: 54 - 48 - 42 - 00
____________________________
SECRETAR?A DE TURISMO
Av. Presidente Masaryk No. 172, Col. Chapultepec Morales,
C.P. 11587, M?xico, Distrito Federal.
Tel?fono: (55) 3002-6300

____________________

International Community Foundation., foundation president Richard Kiy:
Established in 1990, ICF is a public charity working to foster lasting philanthropy to benefit under-served communities throughout the Americas and Asia. With over 70% of ICF?s recent grantmaking benefiting charitable causes along the Baja California peninsula, ICF is committed to assisting US. donors with charitable giving needs from Tijuana to Los Cabos.
For individual donors wishing to make a difference in Mexico, ICF also offers a reliable and efficient tax-deductible vehicle without being subject to the restrictions set forth in the 1996 U.S.-Mexico Tax Treaty which stipulates that tax-deductible individual giving in Mexico be limited to one?s Mexican-sourced income.

International Community Foundation
11300 Sorrento Valley Road, Ste. 115
San Diego, CA 92121
Office: (858) 677-2913 Fax: (858) 677-2918
renetta@icfdn.org

Pro Peninsula
P.O. Box 7175 San Diego, CA 92167
Tel: (619) 723-0700 Fax: (619) 374-7162
Email: info@propeninsula.org

_______________________

The Secretariat of Environment and Natural Resources (Secretar?a del Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales, SEMARNAT) is a government agency whose main purpose is to create a State environmental protection policy reversing the tendencies of ecological deterioration and establishing the bases for a sustainable development in the country.
The generation of scientific and technical information on environmental issues and the training of human resources, in order to inform society, support decision making, encourage the protection of the environment, promote the sustainable use of natural resources, and support the Secretary of the Environment and Natural Resources in reaching its goals.
SEMARNAP - Ra?l Marc? del Pont Lalli. Direcci?n de Publicaciones.
Instituto Nacional de Ecolog?a
Perif?rico sur 5000, Col. Insurgentes Cuicuilco
Deleg. Coyoac?n, C.P. 04530
Tel.: (55) 54 24 64 35, fax: (55) 54 24 52 41
E-mail: pmarco@ine.gob.mx

______________________

PROFEPA:
Mission:
Contain the destruction of our natural resources and to revert the processes of environmental deterioration.
Ensure the unrestricted access to society to the duty of doing environmental justice in a prompt manner.
Involve Society and its organizations in the surveillance and induction of the compliance with environmental law. Society and its organizations must be informed and have a responsible participation.
Strengthen the presence of the Attorney General for Environmental Protection and to extend its territorial coverage, with a federalist criteria.
Construct an efficient and modern institution, under criteria of honesty, transparency and trustworthiness, transmitting a new image to society.

Corrently Mr. Luege is the Attorney General for Environmental Protection, at the ministry of environment and National Resources
Address: La Ley al Servicio de la Naturaleza?. M?xico D.F. 2002. Derechos Reservados. Desarrollado por
Kiven S.C.
Federal attorney for environmental protection:
Edificio AJUSCO
Carretera Picacho-Ajusco 200
Col. Jardines en la Monta?a
Deleg. Tlalpan, C.P. 14210, M?xico D.F.
tel. 54-49-63-00
De cualquier parte de la Rep?blica marque sin costo al tel?fono
01-800-77-033-72
01-800-77-033-72
pfpaweb@correo.profepa.gob.mx
________________________________

___________________

WiLDCOAST is an international conservation team dedicated to preserving endangered marine species and threatened coastal wildlands of the Californias. Through community-based conservation, we work to eliminate threats to ecosystems and to develop reserves to permanently protect sensitive areas. Our partnerships with local people, governments, and nonprofit organizations are critical to the successful recovery of imperiled species and the defense of their coastal habitats.
WiLDCOAST
925 Seacoast Drive
Imperial Beach, CA 91932
Phone: (619) 423-8665
Fax: (619) 423-8488
Email: info@wildcoast.net
____________________

Nature Conservancy:
Our Mission
To preserve the plants, animals and natural communities that represent the diversity of life on Earth by protecting the lands and waters they need to survive
Worldwide Office
The Nature Conservancy
4245 North Fairfax Drive, Suite 100
Arlington, VA 22203-1606
Southern Baja California Program
Calle Alvaro Obreg?n #460 Of. 206
Colonia Centro
La Paz, Baja California Sur 23000
Mexico
(52) 612 125-9444
California Field Office
201 Mission Street
4th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
(415) 777-0487
calweb@tnc.org

_______________________

Pronatura A. C
Asp?rgulas N? 22 (antes Pino)
Col. San Clemente, C. P. 01740, M?xico, D.F.
Tel./fax (55) 5635-5054
pronatura@pronatura.org.mx
www.pronatura.org.mx

CONANP:

Alfredo Zavala Gonz??lez, oversees protection of the Sea of Cortez islands for Mexico's National Commission of Protected Areas
Camino al Ajusco #200, Col. Jard?nes en la Monta?a, Delegaci?n Tlalpan, M?xico, Distrito Federal, C?digo Postal 14210,
Conmutador +52 555449 6300, Correo electr?nico info@conanp.gob.mx

MEXIDATA@IX.netcom.com
Barnard R. Thompson
MIRA
PO Box 33782
San Diego CA 92163
Barnard Thompson has spent more than 40 years in Mexico and Latin America, providing consulting, business, governmental affairs, facilitation, lobbying and problem resolution services for a variety of multinational clients.

www.worldtalkradio.com
Attn: Ted Donovan
Michael Purdy, CEO
858/836-0161
mpurdy@worldtalkradio.com
Michael Purdy
_________________________

Investigacion y Conservacion de Mamiferos Marinos de Ensenada, A.C., to evaluate the environmental impact of fishing and boat traffic on whales and dolphins and start an environmental education program.
Pro Esteros, Lagunas y Marismas de las Californias, A.C., to help protect the Mona Estuary at Bahia de los Angeles.
________________

Loreto Tourism Office:
Email: fomixlor@lapaz.cromwell.com.mx
________________________
Melissa Paxton,
Director of Environmental Affairs,
Baja Life Magazine
melpax@hotmail.com

Arturo Mart?nez Esquer
Deputy Director of Visitor Assistance
State Secretariat of Tourism of Baja California
(011 52 664) 973 0424 & (011 52 664) 973 0430
www.discoverbajacalifornia.com

Wilderone

Baja Bernie - 5-16-2006 at 11:49 AM

Beautiful words by Douglas--- but he was speaking of America. What impact do you believe that a bunch of Gringos, who have NO standing in Mexico, will have on the Mexican Politicians who pay little or no heed to their own citizens---See Matt's post on "Mexico's Shame" elsewhere.

Just got back from Cabo and they are now building on "Lands End."----Thousands will come to see the view of the sunrise on the Vermillion Sea and then see it set on the Pacific. Fantastic! But at what cost?

[Edited on 5-17-2006 by Baja Bernie]

Sorry, Wilderone

MrBillM - 5-16-2006 at 08:23 PM

"But obviously you have mistaken me for someone who gives a Crap".

I'm just here for the duration. The Baja that I originally knew and loved started disappearing in the early 80s. It's all downhill from here.

I would be willing to bet big bucks, though, that all of your "Little Things" aren't going to make a bit of difference.

[Edited on 5-17-2006 by MrBillM]

Slowmad - 5-17-2006 at 02:45 PM

Only here for the duration?
Someone start the timer.

Good things are happening.
Vast tracts of Baja are being preserved in land trusts through the actions of several of the orgs noted by Wilderone.

That means our kids and grandkids will be able to taste pristine Baja.

Oh Good.

MrBillM - 5-17-2006 at 04:12 PM

I was worried that there was a problem, but now that I know good things are indeed happening, I can relax and stop worrying.

That sure is a load off my Espalda. I was getting worn down.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The timer started on 21 Feb 1945 and it's pretty far wound down.

[Edited on 5-17-2006 by MrBillM]

Slowmad - 5-17-2006 at 04:38 PM

No problem with sitting on the sidelines.
But scoffing at those who are inclined to do something positive...that offers a view normally reserved for the curved part of the porcelein.

a response? to my email.

woody with a view - 5-19-2006 at 06:23 AM

rec'd this week and the online translator only tells me it is a bunch of politico speak. basically telling me they have it under control and to "respect" their decision:

Sr. Wood:

Recibimos su correo electr?nico y le informamos que, en el marco de nuestras leyes, las iniciativas de proyectos de obras o actividades son evaluadas por esta autoridad en materia del impacto al ambiente. En tal sentido, en M?xico como en su pa?s respetamos a nuestros visitantes y de la misma forma pedimos respeto a nuestros propios sistemas de decisi?n de lo que procede o de lo que no procede para un espacio determinado de nuestro territorio.

Tenga usted la seguridad que la ocupaci?n fundamental de esta autoridad se concentra en la previsi?n del desequilibrio ambiental que pudiera ocasionar un proyecto determinado, siempre con un enfoque sustentable, en el ejercicio pleno de nuestra soberan?a y dentro del marco de nuestra normatividad.

Atentamente

translated version:

We receive its e-mail and we report him that, in the framework of our laws, the works projects initiatives or activities are evaluated for this authority in matter of the impact al environment. In such sense, in Mexico as in its country we respect to ours visiting and of the same form we ask respect to our own systems of decision of what proceeds or of what does not proceed for a specific space of our territory.

Have the security that the fundamental occupation of this authority concentrates on the forecast of the environmental imbalance that could cause a same old specific project with a sustainable focus, in the full exercise of our sovereignty and inside the framework of our regulatory nature.

David K - 5-19-2006 at 09:09 AM

Ferna, Jesse, Shari, ... ? How about the real translation?

Thanks!!

Woody , thanks for posting that.

Bajalero - 5-19-2006 at 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by woody in ob
rec'd this week and the online translator only tells me it is a bunch of politico speak. basically telling me they have it under control and to "respect" their decision:

Sr. Wood:

Recibimos su correo electr?nico y le informamos que, en el marco de nuestras leyes, las iniciativas de proyectos de obras o actividades son evaluadas por esta autoridad en materia del impacto al ambiente. En tal sentido, en M?xico como en su pa?s respetamos a nuestros visitantes y de la misma forma pedimos respeto a nuestros propios sistemas de decisi?n de lo que procede o de lo que no procede para un espacio determinado de nuestro territorio.

Tenga usted la seguridad que la ocupaci?n fundamental de esta autoridad se concentra en la previsi?n del desequilibrio ambiental que pudiera ocasionar un proyecto determinado, siempre con un enfoque sustentable, en el ejercicio pleno de nuestra soberan?a y dentro del marco de nuestra normatividad.

Atentamente

translated version:

We receive its e-mail and we report him that, in the framework of our laws, the works projects initiatives or activities are evaluated for this authority in matter of the impact al environment. In such sense, in Mexico as in its country we respect to ours visiting and of the same form we ask respect to our own systems of decision of what proceeds or of what does not proceed for a specific space of our territory.

Have the security that the fundamental occupation of this authority concentrates on the forecast of the environmental imbalance that could cause a same old specific project with a sustainable focus, in the full exercise of our sovereignty and inside the framework of our regulatory nature.

The response basically says , somewhat politely , to butt out of their soveriegn business in their country/

Lero

Woody

Bajalero - 5-19-2006 at 09:39 AM

Here's your oportunity to be political.

You attempt to pose one Mex. organization against another.

Send that letter to Profepa , cc'd to el Pesidente ,asking if that is any way for an official to respond to a person only concerned with the interest of Mexico (baja) at heart .

Never know what you might start.

PJC - 6-12-2006 at 09:28 PM

Eco-nuts buying land to preserve it? I am all for that! But please do it by raising all capital outside of government grants our litigious land exchanges.

Past all that, and outside of all the ex-pats looking to preserve their little utopia, what do the citizens of Baja think about all the progress? My guess is that they are enjoying a better and more prosperous way of life.

Capt. George - 6-13-2006 at 02:35 AM

If ya got the dough, ya gonna go. Money talks & BS walks.

Just too many people with too much money....Options to slow developement.

1. Plaque

2. Nuclear War

3. Accept the inevitable.

4. Lots of waterfront land in Africa

SoCalAl - 6-13-2006 at 12:44 PM

Just my thoughts on this, no offense to anyone. As a teenager, I started traveling into Baja. Particularly Ensenada and into La Bufadora. I recall being offered acherage of land in trade for some of the old vehicles I drove down there. I had an old VW camper van and I was offered about 3 achers of land about a 1/4 mile east of the where the toll road and highway 3 meet, on highway 3. I was offered a house on top of the hill overviewing the ensenada bay for 10K in $100 dollar installments no interest and only $500 down back when there was like "one" house up there. There was some land next to the estero as you are heading toward La Bufadora where the road bends to the left, all you needed to do there was get off the road and all that flat land was offered just 6 to 7 years ago for $3000 US dollars a 1000m x 1000m or what they call un hectar. The reason for selling cheap according to the owner was, that the water table was salt water and they could not farm the land. Now all these places, especially closer to town from TJ to Maneadero is rediculuosly priced. $5000 would get you a decent and large lot 10 years ago, now you can't touch a 20m x 20m for less than 30k. That house on the hill is well worth over 200k and the large 1000m x 1000m lot looks like it will be devolped into some large getaway project. Progress? Yes for all the investors or those who happend to keep their land. For the procratinators, "regret" maybe. I hear all sorts of great storys from the old timers (with all due respect guys) about Cali in the 40's, 50's, 60's and even into the 70's about how great fishing was. They considered Halibut and rock fish, junk fish. Now some guys spend thousands targeting those exact species. With so many people leaving the Mainland for the Baja Peninsula, it is virtually imposible to see this land develop one way or another. The Americans will continue to vacation where ever "THEY BUILD IT". This includes Mexican Americans who come home to roots. Regardless of how much many of us would like to preserve the natural beuty, the bottom line is that California, especially Southern California isn't large enough to hold the migration of legal, illegal and the populace from other US States into it. Single family homes in the 1/2 million dollar mark for the average worker is sickening. How many retirees can truly aford a "mort"gage in California. Where is the next most logical place where they can find affordable housing and similar weather climates if it isn't the extension of California. I am not sure cause I was not there but I am assuming that Baja today is similar to the California of the 60's and 70's. Can the building seize or will the people stop coming. Real Eastate wise it's a gold mine. So long as people idealize money, they could care less about a bunch of folks chasing fish and waves. They could care less of about old missions and desert back drops. Like someone mentioned earlier, enjoy it while it is here for as long as that is.

I hope some day Mexico allows American Citizens to own land, cause it is only fair as America allows others to own American soil. For those who have Mexican status on this board, whether we like it or not, it is probobly best that if you do not own a piece of Baja, you best get the ball rolling because the time is coming where you will pay lots of money just to park your RV in an RV park. I can still remember just a few years back, tacos 3 for a dollar and now they are $1 a piece. I still see people trying to negciate 2 for 1 and the Taco vendors just turn them down. Those days are gone, water under the bridge. It's living in Mexico with American pricing what can you do if the demand is there.

I don't know that a decade will change the whole thing but certainly as in California and especially once they figure out a way to bring large quanties of fresh water into the area, this place is another Puerto Vallarta or Cancun, over priced and over crowded.

PJC - 6-15-2006 at 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
THIS IS EXACTLY THE ATTITUDE THAT PROMOTES, HASTENS, EXACERBATES AND ENCOURAGES THE KILLING OF BAJA.

What you see as a problem many in Baja (citizens especially) see as progress and opportunity.

Do not forget that you are a guest.

Roberto - 6-15-2006 at 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajalero
The response basically says , somewhat politely , to butt out of their soveriegn business in their country/

Yes, that is the jist of it. It does include reassurances that all decisions are made with the utmost respect of the environment and the impact of any project on it.
==========================================
Sr. Wood:

We received your letter and would like to inform you that, in accordance with our laws, all potential projects are evaluated by this office according to their potential impact on the environment. Please also keep in mind that, in Mexico as in your own country, we respect our visitors and in return expect the same from them when it comes to deciding what should/should not be implemented within our sovereign territory.

Please rest assured that the principal responsility of this office is focused on the determination of any potential envrironmental imbalance that a project may cause, and to ensure that a sustainable balance with nature is maintaned, all within the full sovereignty and context of our laws.

Sincerely yours,

....

==========================

Oso, Braulio, Lencho - is that pretty much it?

[Edited on 6-15-2006 by Roberto]

Bob H - 6-15-2006 at 04:04 PM

I think everyone should just enjoy Baja as it is, while they can. Everthing changes everywhere. Many of us think that this "progress?" is the "Killing of Baja" but what do you belive the people that are making the money on this progress think? Just the opposite of killing.... or you might think of it as if they are "making a killing" on the growth. Think of the town you grew up in and what it is like today. I grew up in Miami in the 50's and 60's, went back a couple of years ago and didn't recognize 90% of the city or neighborhood I grew up in.
Too many whiners.... go and enjoy. Then stop going to Baja when you don't like it any more.
Bob H :rolleyes:

That's true Bob

Sharksbaja - 6-15-2006 at 04:31 PM

You obviously didn't care much for the changes Miami made. Then of course we don't care as much when a megapolis is formed from the suburbs joining hands.
Baja on the other hand will make odd transitions just because of the huge differences in cultural atmosphere. Sticking a Wal-Mart in San Felipe 10 yrs ago would seem unfathomable. Today it would hardly shock most. But put one in Loreto today and folks might have a different spin. Ok, wait five more years.

Bob H - 6-15-2006 at 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
You obviously didn't care much for the changes Miami made.

I don't know what I said that made it obvious that I didn't like the changes in Miami.... Actually, the truth is, I liked many of the changes I saw in Miami. It's like visiting Cuba or South America, or Jamaica, or Haiti, etc. The cultural atmosthere there is absolutely incredible. It just depends on what you are looking for. Many of those who grew up there in my day don't like the changes. But, I love the different cultures just suburbs away from each other. And the FOOD!... well... you get the picture.
Bob H

Sharksbaja - 6-15-2006 at 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob H

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja
You obviously didn't care much for the changes Miami made.

Well I was wrong then. As for my memories of So Ca. I grew up very close to the ocean and it has certainly changed. I don't consider hotels, condos and golf courses along the beach cliffs any kind of ibenefit except for a limited wealthy few. It was always a "special" place when it was left undisturbed. Now, walkways to the beach for golf club members. This, after voters decided to save the area from developmentin the 70s. They saw value in having such pristine protected places. Especially since all the rest of the adjoining coastline was gobbled up. Gee, I wonder what happened to THAT piece of legislation. :rolleyes:

I can understand how modenizing and developing older areas is good and beneficial. My opposition is not about change per se. It's more about dominate forces at work that are not in the best interest of the public as a whole.

Bob H - 6-15-2006 at 07:45 PM

Sharks, you always have a very interesting perspective on things. I realy enjoy reading your posts. Keep up the good work.
Bob H

Bob H.

Sharksbaja - 6-16-2006 at 12:25 AM

I feel likewise sir.
I also feel dialog and sharing common interests (even off-topic) is beneficial for many reasons . Lest we challenge our own selfs' feelings and opinions would render us biased without bonafide reflection. I find that here. I strive to fine-tune my attitude, philosophy and feelings about myriad interests as I grow older. I really don't want to be a grumpy, stubborn ol' hard-nosed man, thanks. :fire:

I've seen that.
This forum is a wonderful tool and exercise in displaying self to society. The feedback definitely is a bonus even when it hurts. A persons wisdom is congruent and propotional to the input/output of information received and exchanged through years of experience and influence.
It's a learning curve, given that that person wants to learn. Pity that some, labeled "narrow-minded," simply do not reconcile the information stored within. :light:

Thanks Bob for makin' me think! Yer a good guy! :light:

oladulce - 6-16-2006 at 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Sculpin
Ever hear of "The Ranch" - Hollister Ranch in Santa Barbara, California? Talk about exclusivity......

That's interesting because I consider The Ranch a unique success story of warding off development in the midst of southern Calif. I had the pleasure of visiting a friend and surfing there about 20 years ago, and even if I never get there again in my lifetime I find it reassuring to know that it's still there, and pristine, with perfect empty waves probably peeling in right now. A few lucky Ricos bought their piece of this pie and I say "good on 'em". If I really wanted to visit again, I could get off my butt and Boat-in , and I'd find it in the same unspoiled condition. The fact that it's private is what saved this gem.

But then, I've become a card-carrying Surf-Exclusivist in recent years and am more than happy to "pay", rather than fight for waves. My husband and I have lived modestly and saved, and chose our 2 alternating retirement home locales, partly for their wave quality, but mostly for the privacy/exclusivity of the surf.

?......you get a bunch of surfers to own land, and you either end up with no access, or a surf camp!?

More often, once the land frenzy begins at a remote surf outpost and local people sell off their tiny parcels to surfers seeking "cheap lots", you end up with a new crowd of gringo locals and often just a Surf Ghetto without any thought put in to a master plan.

Sharksbaja - 6-16-2006 at 01:25 AM

You betcha it as a good thing Ola. We used to drive in like idiots , down the train tracks from,...uh..... Jalama beach?? Anyway, besides geat lefts, were great big Cabezon. Easy taking with a Hawaiian sling.
So what is the state of "The Ranch" these days?

I would hate to here it's been developed but then again, why wouldn't it? Duh! MOOLA!

elgatoloco - 6-16-2006 at 09:06 AM

http://www.hollister-ranch.com/

http://surfline.com/surfaz/surfaz.cfm?id=927

I am checking my lotto numbers as we speak! :biggrin:

The Sculpin - 6-16-2006 at 09:21 AM

The biggest irony of the whole Ranch thing is that when a swell hits. it's just as crowded as anywhere else!! Owning land only allows you the luxury of paddling out from the beach. There are so many boats out there that surfers get into fights over anchorages. I really hope you win the lottery, but think twice about the ranch.

I have found a new place to surf. It takes many days to get there, it's hot as hell, the shots you have to take are more painful than being dragged across the reef on a ten foot day, and setting foot on land could cost you your head. This place is soooo perfect that several weeks of this place and you have no desire to surf anywhere else.

and no, it's not Tule in august......

oladulce - 6-16-2006 at 07:50 PM

I'm sure you're right Sculpin, the boat traffic at the Ranch on good swells is probably ridiculous nowadays and I was envisioning the empty waves and beaches of years ago. A sad sign of the times. I saw my new favorite bumper sticker the other day which politely reads "Thank you for not surfing".

But the quality of the Ranch waves is way beyond the average surf spot in California and it's not an ordinary place. If the empty hills and beaches of those points were filled with condos, hotels and parking lots, I think the perfect waves would attract a surf-crowd the likes of which we have never seen. Given it's proximity to the metropolis, I'd venture that they would become the most crowded surfspots on the planet and the fact that it's private has kept this at bay.

[Edited on 6-17-2006 by oladulce]

The Sculpin - 6-16-2006 at 11:22 PM

I guess you will only find out if you try......good luck!

jide - 8-15-2006 at 09:46 PM

Wildcoast is working with people who get real results, like Ecoparque.
I have a lot of respect for this organization.

I helped out by designing their "Clean Water Now" ad campaign and last year's Dempsey Holder poster and tees.

[Edited on 8-16-2006 by jide]

toneart - 8-16-2006 at 12:59 PM

It is interesting to see the same polarizing attitudes that are so virulent in our U.S. politics being expressed here regarding Baja. If one reads our forums it is easy to find a side to agree with. The polemics just seem to stick our stands on issues with like kind. We are predominately mature adults here and we have had the time and experience to know where we stand on important issues. Some here are quite eloquent in expressing their ideas; on both sides. Some, not so. Notice that one side is caring and leaning toward positive solutions. There are lots of helpful posts, with links to websites and constructive, helpful ideas. Thank you!!! There are always ways to resist the Status Quo. Change is inevitable. If our hearts are leading, we CAN have some impact as to what kind of change occurs....that is, if we care. If we don't care, we can stick our heads in a sand bar and let the fecal waves wash over us. (Just remember to keep your eyes, ears and especially your mouth shut).

Cincodemayo - 8-16-2006 at 01:00 PM

Killer Dana had em all beat until it's demise with Dana Point Harbor. San Clemente or Trestles was another great spot except when Tricky Dick used it as his West Coast White House then the Secret Service would conviscate your board if it was washed up after a "wipeout" as they couldn't touch you out in the water.

Cypress - 8-16-2006 at 01:30 PM

Shari, Sharks, Ola, Mr. Bill and others, Seems' like ya'll are on the same page, maybe from different views. Nothing wrong with taking care of the environment, quality of life etc. Got my support!

Dana Point

MrBillM - 8-16-2006 at 02:44 PM

My youthful surfing days were limited to Southern California, but Dana Point before the Harbor was the best break I ever surfed. I spent many wonderful days there. I hated that Harbor so much that, in later years when I was sailing, I would avoid going there.

I finally got over that in 1992 when I came up the coast and then sailed (and motored) over to Avalon. It turns out I should have avoided it then. Dana Point is a bad departure point for Catalina because the course is dead into the prevailing wind. Making it worse, I came back from Avalon on the First day of Spring and the last El Nino storm of the year. A truly miserable experience.

"They don't make em like they used to and they never did"
Don Meredith.