BajaNomad - truck camper advice needed....

truck camper advice needed....

surfer jim - 5-13-2006 at 05:27 PM

Anybody using "air-bags" to level rear suspension?

Has anyone added a REAR sway bar to their truck?

I just added a Six-pac GRANDBY to my truck and can feel the added sway and found that even empty it puts a load on rear springs. Just wondering what others have found works best.

It is a little radical------

Barry A. - 5-13-2006 at 05:31 PM

--------but I have added "add-a-leaf" springs to my rear end and they work fantastic. The inflatable ones don't seem to stand up to the constant pounding of washboard, has been my experience. Bolt on springs break also. Also use Bilstein shocks, or something comparable.

My truck came with an anti-sway bar and it works very well.

Bob and Susan - 5-13-2006 at 05:47 PM

our friends put some air bags on a van once....

they caught so much fish it popped the bags....

we carried the fish in the dually :tumble:

Bruce R Leech - 5-13-2006 at 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
Anybody using "air-bags" to level rear suspension?

Has anyone added a REAR sway bar to their truck?

I just added a Six-pac GRANDBY to my truck and can feel the added sway and found that even empty it puts a load on rear springs. Just wondering what others have found works best.

Best way is to get a heaver truck. what is a Six-pac GRANDBY? dose it stick out very far behind the bumper?

Pescador - 5-13-2006 at 06:57 PM

Air bags sort of work if they are the type where you can inflate from the truck. But every one of the posts is correct that they have problems on the rough roads of Baja. The best bet is to put in a set of overload springs which will help with the suspension. Try not to overload the truck too much and that will help too. But one of the things I see all the time is that people think that when they put that much weight in the bed of the truck, that it is going to handle like it did before you loaded up. No way. Some of the sway and change in handling just take getting used to. I had a friend who liked my Lance really well but had never driven one. He bought a new one in Denver and then hauled the thing back to Alaska. He never did get used to the feeling and promptly sold the camper.
I would also guess that you have put the Grandby on a 1/2 ton truck which is terribly underslung anyway. So check out overloads and after that just get used to the "heavy feeling".

Bob and Susan - 5-13-2006 at 07:35 PM

these are kinda nice...

Oso - 5-13-2006 at 08:23 PM

McGyver put some kind of rubber cylinder thingees between the springs and bed on the rear of the Taco I bought from him. I forget what they are called. Maybe he will see this and fill us in. The ride is a leetle bit stiff empty but I am probably going to really appreciate them when I find the camper I want.

BTW, I'm in the market for a used pop-top slide-in for short bed xtra cab Tacoma.

surfer jim - 5-13-2006 at 08:57 PM

It accually should be called Four Wheel pop up....Grandby is the model name....just goes to the end of the truck bed....900 pounds empty...

Like in the photo from Bob and Susan....

Maybe Pescador has something about truck riding different and takes a while to get used to.....but I can feel the sway now that wasn't there before....

Bruce R Leech - 5-13-2006 at 09:14 PM

what kind of truck do you have?

Diver - 5-13-2006 at 09:27 PM

I put air bags on all my trucks. They help stop sway as well as leveling the load both ways if needed. Mine are rated for more load than my truck springs can carry. If someone blew a bag it wasn't the right one for the truck/load. They don't help a bit with washboard roads though !

Bruce R Leech - 5-13-2006 at 09:59 PM

I would think that a larger diameter anti sway bar would help the Highway handling more than more springs. it sounds like he is way within the load rang for a full sized 1/2 ton pickup. but ether modification is going to effect your off rode performance in a negative way. but life is just a series of trade offs.

every one has there own Idea of what works for them. I spent most of my life modifying cars and trucks do do thing they arent meant to do. It was both fun and expensive. now in my older and maybe wiser years. I have changed my ways. now I figure out what I want to do with a truck and buy a truck that will handle the job with out all of the mods. I got tired of adding $20,000 Worth of goodies only to find out that they knock off twice that at trade in time. :no:

[Edited on 5-14-2006 by Bruce R Leech]

Barry A. - 5-13-2006 at 10:15 PM

My camper is a Callen, and weighs about 900 lbs. too. It is on a Ford F-250 ext cab long bed 4x4 and the add-a-leafs made all the difference in the world, both with sway and general riding, plus they eliminated sag. The swaybar helps a lot too.

The airbags that I once had simply wore out on the washboard after about 1000 miles of rough going-----they actually had holes worn through them. Others I have talked to told me of similar experiences. I am sure they are fine if you stay on the highway. My bolt-on helper springs simply crystalized and fell off------3 different sets of them-----no more bolt-ons for me.

That made me a believer in add-a-leafs-----been going with them for over 5 years now and no problems.

Geronimo - 5-13-2006 at 10:26 PM

If you go off roading air bags can limit your rear axle articulation. I learned the hard way by riping a set out while putting a truck up on the lift.

Jim ck it out!

Sharksbaja - 5-13-2006 at 10:26 PM

If you're like me, traction & clearance are my biggest concern in the back country. Look at the new PW

Quote:

The Power Wagon saw its debut along a trail in Utah's La Salle Mountains (Moab Utah) - a trail named "Poison Spider" most notably. The super 4x4 performed remarkably for a vehicle that comes straight off the showroom floor. Perhaps the only other stock vehicles that are in its league would be the Jeep Rubicon and the Hummer H1. The 5.7 liter Hemi motor performs flawlessly with its 345 hp and a whopping 375 lbs. of off-road grunt. One of the coolest and most functionally useful features that allows the big Dodge to perform such amazing off-road stunts is the innovative and new electronic disconnecting stabilizer bar - Dodge calls it the "Smart Bar." The Smart Bar is an electronically controlled device that disconnects the front stabilizer bar from the axle via switch on the dash. The bar can be disconnected for speeds below 18 mph in either 4-HI or 4-LO, and automatically re-engages at speeds above 18 mph. The purpose of a stabilizer bar is to distribute load force from one side of the vehicle to the other to prevent body roll while cornering. But they limit axle articulation for serious off-road performance. The common practice for hardcore off-roaders is to bring along a set of wrenches and disconnect the stabilizer bar from the end links while on the trail then bolt them back up for highway use. It?s a time consuming routine but needed because you don't want to drive a lifted 4x4 on the highway without the added stability

I will look into acquiring one of these puppies. Look at this:

Ramp travel index (RTI): Sway bar engaged 460 (23" vertical height)
Ramp travel index (RTI): Sway bar disengaged 655 (32" vertical height)

surfer jim - 5-13-2006 at 10:33 PM

Sharks...got one already !!....bought it in October......and just got the camper for it earlier this year....hasn't been to BAJA yet.....I figured since I travel alone a lot that this could take me anywhere....

Curious

Sharksbaja - 5-13-2006 at 11:35 PM

While I've had heavy loads in the backend over 2000lbs I've been quite pleased with the sway, or lack thereof. You got me wondering now if that new sway system is less rigid or responds differently than the ordinary affair. Is it possible that bolting the unit to the bed may help. Is it firmly footed on the bed? There may not be a whole lot you can do w/that particulkar setup. Let me know if you find a fix. Say, how does that baby handle. I've yet to see one here.

surfer jim - 5-14-2006 at 07:28 AM

The POWER WAGON suspension is excellent on and off road......they really did a good job dialing it in....the only drawback is being soft (especially in the rear). Although it is a 3/4 ton truck I don't think it has the same capacity as the standard 3/4.

This is only an issue with a big load (or camper) .....unloaded (or light load) the truck gets a "10" for suspension from me. I would think if you like the way they look you will love the vehicle. Production numbers are around 3000 units from what I hear so there are not a lot of them on the road.

Check out <dodgetalk.com> 3rd generation ram ....4x4 (?) for more info ....

Firestone airbags

sanfelipebob - 5-14-2006 at 08:00 AM

I have a f350 crew with lance camper. I had the firestone bags installed at the local camper dealer and the work great. Price was about $300.00.

Deaver!

Hook - 5-14-2006 at 09:18 AM

One of their big things is changing out leaf groups with thinner leafs but more leafs. This is supposed to smooth out the ride without sacrificing load capacity. Better incremental loading of the weight.

I haven't done this yet cause I've been busy buying leafs and bunks and calipers for a boat trailer.

Damn boats!

But I think Pescador is right; there is no making 1300-1400 lbs (loaded) on the back of a 1/2 ton pickup disappear completely. Accept that there will be some body sway and adjust your driving skills accordingly.

If anyone can make the ride better, it will be Deaver.

Broken add a leaf

Tomas Tierra - 5-14-2006 at 11:32 AM

Surfer Jim,

This truck and camper broke "add a leafs" from Downey and Rancho..I t wasn't until I put two FULL leafs into the stack that it started to work..Of course, without the camper on it was terrible..

If you are going to mount the camper permanently on the truck, I would start stackin leafs on..Never heard of any luck with airbags off road, I have been talked out of them a few times...

Thomas T.-----

Barry A. - 5-14-2006 at 01:39 PM

-when I refer to "add-a-leafs" I mean extra full length leaves placed in the spring package---not the short bolt on types, or the short stiff leaves placed within the spring package.

This is feasible only if your camper is permanently on the truck-----otherwise, like you say, the truck becomes a monster with stiff, solid-like suspension---horrible!! I have not heard of anybody "breaking" the actual add-on leaves, but I suppose it is possible, just like it is possible to break the factory springs.

Another advantage of having the camper permanently on the truck is that you only have to pay "house-car" DMV fees, instead of the normal "commercial" license fees-----commercial fees are a LOT more. I NEVER remove my camper.

Barry...

Tomas Tierra - 5-14-2006 at 02:42 PM

Yes, the ones I broke were the short little chit ones..

I never thought of the DMV fees, will have to look at that, thanx..

comitan - 5-14-2006 at 02:47 PM

If you don't want to have the sway get shocks that do the job(Bilstien) ordinary shocks do not do the job, and no amount of springs will do it, you have to have the right Combo.

Tomas Tierra - 5-14-2006 at 02:53 PM

Always used rancho 9000's....Am I blowing it??

Sharksbaja - 5-14-2006 at 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
If you don't want to have the sway get shocks that do the job(Bilstien) ordinary shocks do not do the job, and no amount of springs will do it, you have to have the right Combo.

Bilsteins are stock on the new Power Wagon.

"Significantly revised front coil and rear leaf springs increase ride height, soften spring rates, and increase axle articulation
Ride heights increased by 1.8" (45 mm) front and 1.4"(35 mm) rear over the Ram 2500 4x4
Bilstein high-pressure mono-tube shocks
Longer and larger 45 mm mono-tube (vs. 35 mm twin tubes)
Higher pressure (250 psi vs. 50 psi) "
-----
They claim softer spring rates. Maybe there is a stiffer replacement coil for the front and possibly rear overload leafs available.

Diver - 5-14-2006 at 03:59 PM

To each his own. If you want to stop the sway and have the freedom to adjust the suspension when your camper is on or off, go with air bags. If you have a camper heavy enough to need something extra, you are not going serious 4 wheeling anyway. Air bags really help sway as well.

If you want to leave the camper on all the time or you're OK with the butt busting when your camper is off, then go with springs/shocks but you will never get rid of all the sway.

If you want to do both and carry a light duty camper then get a 3/4 ton truck and use it without the add-ons.

Who rides hard/fast over washboard with a loaded camper anyway ?

To each his own !

surfer jim - 5-14-2006 at 04:21 PM

I didn't want to change the stock springs as I like the ride they provide....

air bags are getting 50-50 review....I know on the highway lots of people use them and not seeing a lot problems with them....but off road it seems like there are issues with them....

I may just go as is and see how I feel after a few trips south...guess that will be the real test .

bajarich - 5-14-2006 at 08:31 PM

I have a Dodge Dakota with a smaller 4-wheel camper. I first used Air Lift air bags, but after replacing them twice, I had the local spring shop add a full leaf to my springs. It rides great with the camper on and is ok without it as long as I only have 35# of air in my tires. The best thing is that I don't worry about the air bags anymore. The air bags take the weight off of the springs and put all the stress on the bracket. My brackets bent due to the force. Of course, when loaded for Baja, I probably carry too much weight for the Dakota, but thats another story.

Bilsteins,

Hook - 5-14-2006 at 09:01 PM

will not do anything for body sway.

They are great shocks but they will not make the world flat, Vespucci.

Diver - 5-14-2006 at 09:24 PM

Funny, I have had one set of Les Schwab air bags on my '94 F250 for three long baja trips and many others with a heavy old Wilderness 9 1/2' camper and often towing a boat or the Wells Cargo trailer. Never had a problem with the air bags. While most of my miles were on the road, I hit all the Baja washboards ie Punta Chivato with no air bag failure. They're still doing fine.

My 'o4 F350 crew came with air bags and 285-75-16 E rated 10 plies. Loaded with the topper and towing the trailer we could still adjust air bags and tire pressure to get a pretty good ride over the washboard from Los Planos towards San Antonio.

Let me also say that I am in construction and often load the F250 with more mortar, sand, tile or stone than the truck and airbags were rated for.

No air bag failures with either truck.
.

Diver,

Hook - 5-14-2006 at 10:46 PM

I am not sure I would use the term "heavy' and "Wildernest" in the same sentence. Those are not considered heavy in most people's books unless you are loading one into a pee-ant 1/2ton pickup.

Springs

pangamadness - 5-15-2006 at 08:34 AM

Go to National Spring in El Cajon. Every truck I have owned has been thee for added springs and they do good work. Off Bradley I think & hwy 67

Diver-----

Barry A. - 5-15-2006 at 08:42 AM

----You must be one savvy driver, and gentle to your rig to boot. Of course, big low-pressure tires help emensely, too.

Most of my experience is on the road from San Felipe to Gonzaga (both pre-graded, and after), and from BOLA to Las Animas--------both roads seem to destroy anything not rated "bullet-proof". I have broken many, many springs, both helper type, and boat and utility trailer springs (factory), as well as airbags, and my rig is not that heavy (total load maybe 1600 lbs with boat on top). ALL my travel friends have had similar experiences.

Convinced me!!!

But like you say, "to each his own".

Diver - 5-15-2006 at 09:25 AM

Yes, I drive like an Angel. Thank you ! :biggrin:

and Hook, my 1978 Winderness has been refitted with a 5/8 inch ply roof, 2x4 struts and holds 65 gallons of water, 25 grey/black, Zodiak, 10 Hp outboard, 190 lbs of dogs....you get the picture. It's also the tallest of all the older campers I have seen.

If I had any problems with my air shocks I might have considered a more expensive option but for under $400 it a no-brainer for me.
Did I just say I have no brain ? :?:

Diver - 5-15-2006 at 09:30 AM

Seriously.......

Has anyone driving a "real" truck (FORD) had any problems with their load-rated air bag brackets or frames or faulty bags ??

I don't make any claims to know a thing about those "immitation" trucks !!

Time to heat things up ?? :biggrin:

pappy - 5-15-2006 at 12:42 PM

jim-
check out super spring in carpenteria california.(supersprings.com) i think.my old rig had add-a-leafs in rear for my camper.worked well. my current truck is going to get super spring. more or less an add-a-leaf and then some.my friend has air bags on his dodge 3/4 ton and has had them fail with just minimal loads of camp gear.

OK, Diver, you want to heat things up, do you----

Barry A. - 5-15-2006 at 01:37 PM

--------MY truck, as previously stated, is (using YOUR terms) a "real truck"!!!!! ------a 1994 Ford F-250 ext. cab, long bed, 4x4.

The stock frame (actually the "bed" mount) broke just behind the cab about 3 years ago on the road from the El Apache Sulfur Mine west to Valle Chico via Parral Canyon. I had to have the camper and bed removed, and welded up after reinforcing everything with 2" steel square tube, and steel plate. The bed was crushed like a tin-can----very disappointing----and on a "real truck", too!!!! Lots of hammering and welding cured that. That will never happen again, but the truck probably weighs 60 lbs more than it did.

It is interesting to note that the same camper and boat mounted on a 1969 Ford 1/2 ton 2-wheel drive withstood years and years of bad road travel in Baja with no structural problems-----they just don't build them like they used to, including FORD!!! By the way, the airbags were on that FORD, and they did not last long. That truck also had inflatable shocks, and they blew out almost immediately. I replaced them with Bilsteins, and replaced the rear springs with 1-ton spring packs-------also replace the front coil springs with 3/4 ton coils. All those modifications did the trick.

I am not a fast driver (tho I do not drive like an "Angel") but I do take some pretty bad roads. In my opinion, the biggest "plus" to bad road driving is to have huge tires with low air pressure------what a difference!!!!!

My present Ford F-250 has one full add-a-leaf added to each front spring pack, and two add-a-leafs to each rear spring pack (no overload springs). It has stock anti-sway bars fore and aft. Bilstein shocks on the front, and KYB gas motorhome shocks on the back. 285 x 16 BFG All terraign all around (load range D) mounted on 8 inch wide rims. It now rides like a dream, and there is very little sway (none on the highway), and this with a very heavy CALLEN camper with a 14 ' Gregor on top. In the whoop-de-doos that the racers leave behind it does rock and roll pretty badly, but I believe that any vehicle of weight would. (I hate those whoops)

It is one mean machine!!!!-----now, after the modifications. Please don't ask what all this cost, but it was worth it.

To conclude: those "air bag" thingy's are for asphalt cruisers, grocery-getters, and those that drive like "angels". :lol:

Diver - 5-15-2006 at 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry A.
To conclude: those "air bag" thingy's are for asphalt cruisers, grocery-getters, and those that drive like "angels". :lol:

OK that's it ! Them's fighting words !! :smug:

We meet in El Rosario with Fords and immitations loaded with campers, gear and gas. Then south to hit the dirt roads and washboards of Baja.
I'll bring the F350 crew "road builder". Breakdowns will be left in the dust !

Who's a chicken ?? :lol:

Come on let's go !! I dare ya ! :lol:

:
.

Diver - 5-15-2006 at 03:06 PM

Whistler is always welcome.
We don't mind Dodges they are light and easy to tow ! :tumble:

Also much nicer toys than....well, you know, Toys.

(Getting nasty now! :cool:

:lol

Barry A. - 5-15-2006 at 03:46 PM

Diver-----------

----that'al be the day----- :biggrin:

paulv - 5-15-2006 at 09:29 PM

Anybody into this topic at all might enjoy a book I just picked up on a whim - "Mobile Mansions," by Douglas Keister. Can't put it down. All about the history of and great photos of car and truck campers. Some amazing stuff there.

surfer jim - 5-15-2006 at 11:34 PM

Welcome to NOMADS Paulv......I am guessing you have camper yourself.....and where has it been in BAJA?

Sharksbaja - 5-16-2006 at 12:00 AM

Dodge rules! :biggrin:

paulv - 5-16-2006 at 06:16 AM

Hi Jim.

I do not have a real camper, only a Tacoma with a camper shell not long enough to sleep in, but I dream about making my own camper one day and hope to do it sooner, rather than later.

I am on a cross country now and had been thinking of driving into Baja, but am wondering now whether to do it or not. I'd almost rather wait till I have a friend with me. Not sure I want to deal with the roadblocks, the language thing and being in an unfamiliar place the first time one my own.

Still, I may end up doing it. I'll be in SoCal in a couple of days and will figure it out then.

P

Diver - 5-16-2006 at 07:14 AM

Gotta love ya fer try'in, Sharks !! :lol:

Made any tidal pools lately ? :lol:

Hey, we'll be in Netarts mid-June.
Any chance you'll be at your restaurant ?
Maybe we'll come south for dinner.

Diver - 5-16-2006 at 07:17 AM

paulv

If you post your desired Baja dates you may be able to connect with another Nomad who is going down.

Don't be skeered, ask what questions you may have to increase your comfort level and then JUST DO IT ! You won't be sorry !

elgatoloco - 5-16-2006 at 10:39 AM

I took my F-250 4x to Frame & Axle in El Cajon. I take my camper off when not camping. They set up my springs so that the truck rides level with or without the camper. I have a heavy duty aftermarket anti-sway bar up front. Upgraded the front steering stabilizer to a Fox. Bilsteins dual up front singles in back. I am happy with performance.

heres a camper

pacificobob - 5-16-2006 at 10:48 AM

1981 unimog by mercedes benz

elgatoloco - 5-16-2006 at 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pacificobob
1981 unimog by mercedes benz

stealthy

surfer jim - 5-16-2006 at 11:30 AM

GATO...looks like you are headed to a "secret" surf spot.....where is it?

elgatoloco - 5-16-2006 at 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
GATO...looks like you are headed to a "secret" surf spot.....where is it?

Sad story. After two solid weeks of overhead tube rides I passed out from shear exhaustion fell hit my head and still have not been able to remember which road I went down to get there. If I remeber you WILL be the first to know! :biggrin:

F350

rob - 5-16-2006 at 02:16 PM

I have airbags on my F350 diesel - they work OK but the ^%$@^#^@#@^ who installed them in Seattle cunningly bolted them on in such a way that the chassis cracked on both sides (fortunately not at the same moment).

This led to an interesting Sunday afternoon . While passing through Mulege I noticed a slight understeer, stopped and discovered two ends of the chassis that had parted company and were waving gently in a breeze that had been about 65 mph.

Mulege had rolled up its sidewalks, so I crept at 25mph all the way to Guerrero Negro, slept and had the chassis welded the next day.

I currently use Bilstein shocks, but have nothing but good to say about Rancho 9000s - I even had the remote control where you can adjust the firmness of the shocks from the cab.

Diver - 5-16-2006 at 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elgatoloco

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
GATO...looks like you are headed to a "secret" surf spot.....where is it?

Somebody hit him again !! :lol:

marek - 5-17-2006 at 11:19 PM

Surfer Jim,

I have a 2002 Dodge Ram (Diesel 4x4) and used to have a Four Wheel Grandby Camper that went to Baja many times. I run the Kore Race system on my truck and it handled the weight of the camper just fine. The rear portion of the Race system consists of a mini leaf pack that gives you four additional leafs that mount under the factory leaf springs. It still provides for very progressive travel of the rear axle, but also gives you pretty substantial weight carrying capacity. No air bags to deal with and you still retain the off road capability that you enjoy.

Let me know if you have more questions.

Marek

surfer jim - 5-18-2006 at 07:03 AM

Kore makes good stuff.....The new power wagon has great suspension and I didn't want to make too many changes to it...however adding some additional leafs may be just what I am looking for....will take another look at what they offer.....

Just looked at the mini leaf pack...that may be just what I need...wonder if it requires longer shocks?

[Edited on 5-18-2006 by surfer jim]

surfer jim - 5-18-2006 at 09:33 AM

whistler...do you have both the mini pack and the overloads?

marek - 5-18-2006 at 11:14 PM

With your camper, I don't think you will need the overloads and the mini packs. You are not heavy enough (unless your camper is completely full) to effectively use the overload springs. As a result, they will actually work to your disadvantage. They will rebound against your bump stops and will negatively impact your ride. I've run the camper in Baja both ways, and prefer the mini pack to the overloads. If you were hauling a 3000-4000 camper, I would use the overloads, but with the four wheel camper mini packs will work better.

[Edited on 5-20-2006 by marek]

CADZOOM - 5-20-2006 at 03:35 PM

I was wondering if a diesel or gas powered vehicle is preferred for travel to Baja? Is the better mileage worth the cost of a diesel truck and how is available is diesel in Baja?

bajalou - 5-20-2006 at 04:04 PM

Diesel is available almost everywhere that gasoline is in Baja and is a bunch cheaper. Now about 1.80 a g. vs regular 2.35 (more or less depending on rate of exchange)