BajaNomad - Further update on the "Easy" FM3 Acquisition!

Further update on the "Easy" FM3 Acquisition!

cathart - 5-29-2006 at 03:52 PM

Okay, remember how, in an earlier post, I told you all how happy I was that I had gotten our FM3's in Los Angeles, and how it had taken us basically only 3 hours, and that was it? Well, here is the continuation of the story, and of course, the end wasn't at all so simple!

We knew that we did need to go to Ensenada to have the FM3's validated. We were told that in Los Angeles, and in fact, right in the document, it said that we had 90 days to have it validated. So luckily, we decided to do that right away. This Friday, we drove to Immigration in Ensenada. Wnen we arrived, we were immediately told that we each had to pay a $10 fine because we had not gotten our documents stamped at immigration when we entered at the border! That would not have meant that we wouldn't have had to come down to Ensenada, but we were supposed to have them stamped first as we entered the Country. Of course, nobody had told us to do that! Then, we were informed that because the Mexican Consulate in Los Angeles had not written our La Mision address on our FM3, it had to be reprocessed, and that we needed proof of residence in Mexico! Luckily, I happened to have with me in the car a copy of our Title, which they accepted in lieu of a utility bill, which I did not have, because we have somebody in Rosarito who pays our bills for us, so we don't get them. They also wanted copies of our U.S. Passports, FM3's, and another letter stating why we wanted the FM3. Luckily, right in the Immigration office, there is a wonderful woman named Mara, who will do all of the copying and letter writing (in the necessary Spanish, of course) for you, right on the spot! Thank goodness for her! We then had to leave everything, including our Passports there over the weekend, to be picked up on Monday.

On Monday, we went back, and were told that we could pick up our FM3's in 3 weeks! I asked if there might be any way to speed up the process, since we have to move out of our house on June 25th, and will not be down in Baja in order to pick up the FM3 after June 13th. We were told that yes, they could be ready by June 13th! So now, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that this happens as planned! It wasn't nearly as smooth as I thought! If you do need help in Ensenada though, Mara is a Godsend, and will do her best to talk to the officials there, who seem extremely full of themselves, and their power! She knows them all, and has a good relationship with them, and she speaks perfect English too!

I hope this might be helpful to somebody.

Cathy

Don Alley - 5-29-2006 at 05:45 PM

We used to get out tourist cards there before we got FM3s, instead of getting them at the border. We never had a problem, but I've seen posts saying that things have changed.

The $10 fine? For what??? We never get our FM3 stamped at the border; and you are legal in Ensenada for a week with no documents.

Oh well. Good luck, I hope you get your docs on time.

comitan - 5-29-2006 at 06:08 PM

Its very simple they don't want you to get your FM-3 at the Mexican Consul in the states and they make you pay. You will all learn one way or another you are in their country and you do things their way. This was stated in the previous post about FM-3's.

Bruce R Leech - 5-29-2006 at 06:21 PM

comitan is right . they will always punish you when you get it some were else.
so don't do it it is simple.

turtleandtoad - 5-29-2006 at 06:31 PM

I don't know about a FM-3, but I know that I always get my FMT through the Vags, prepaid and ready to go, just needs a stamp. And I've never had a problem getting it stamped. I had to explain it to an official at Sonoyta, but once I showed him all the paperwork and receipts, he gladly stamped it.

Of course, I've never tried to get it stamped in Ensenada either. I've heard about the official there and don't want to press my luck. Sounds like another case of RCNC. :biggrin:

comitan - 5-29-2006 at 06:44 PM

What I think it really comes down to is respect, it is their area you are moving into and its their job to handle it, if you go somewhere else to have someone do their job it is showing disrespect for them.

turtleandtoad - 5-29-2006 at 07:03 PM

In the U.S. military, we call that "Empire building". Small people in even smaller jobs pushing the limits of their authority in an attempt to create their own little empire. And the official in Ensenada will continue to flex his muscles until someone higher on the food chain steps on him.

The reason you only hear about him is because the majority of migracion officials are polite, dedicated, and efficient people. All the ones I've dealt with in Tecate and Sonoyta have gone out of their way to help this poor gringo that has an even poorer grasp of the Spanish language, let alone the "Rules".

comitan - 5-29-2006 at 07:07 PM

TT

They are also doing the same thing in La Paz, Santa Rosalia. I can tell that La Paz Migration is also very friendly but if you get pushy they push back harder.

Al G - 5-29-2006 at 07:11 PM

Great post CatHart good info. I don't think the $10 is an important issue. It will be interesting to see what phony issue they will use when the next one of us gets it stamped at the border. I would hope you send a letter to the consulate about the thief.
Did I understand all that is needed for proof is a utility bill?

comitan - 5-29-2006 at 07:32 PM

I do not understand where some of you people are coming from. I have to say you know nothing of Mexico or the people. What gives you the right to call someone who is doing his job an Empire Builder, Small people in small jobs,and the worst of all thiefs. This is the attitude that gives gringo's a bad name.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bruce R Leech - 5-29-2006 at 08:12 PM

thanks comitan

turtleandtoad - 5-29-2006 at 08:16 PM

Let me get this straight. A local Mexican official can ignore the Federal Mexican laws, impose an illegal fine, and make you redo already approved paperwork, which you meekly do. And when you complain about it to fellow gringos, you're suddenly responsible for giving all gringos a bad name?

comitan - 5-29-2006 at 08:33 PM

#1 how can you say its an illegal fine. What is the Mexican law that they broke by imposing the fine.

#2 They did not have all of the paperwork done correctly.

#3 Its all about attitude.

Al G - 5-29-2006 at 08:40 PM

Comitan,
I am sorry if you perceive disrespect for the people or culture of Mexico.
I do not have any less respect then I do for my children, friends,or my mother, God rest her sole.
Disrespect for a single person, and I know there are many demigods in all cultures, is not a condemnation for a nation.
I'm of the belief the people of Mexico that have to live under these demigods or "Empire Builder" do not have much respect for them either.
Not taking action is the reason these "Empire Builders" seems to be so prevalent for so long.
A thief is a thief.

Paula - 5-29-2006 at 09:05 PM

Interesting conversation!

I don't see anything in Cathy's story that indicates she was rude or disrespectful. It is understandable that she might want to do her paperwork in the US, thinking it would avoid language difficulties and other kinds of confusion. She was treated badly with the fines and re-doing the paperwork, and who really can say why?

That said, I think she got good advice in the earlier paperwork thread. Do it here, always smile, be veeeeerrrrryyyyyy patient, and realize how lucky you are to be visiting or living in Mexico! Have a good sense of humor, and the humility to realize that in the global scheme of things, your paperwork and a few dollars are no big deal, and everything will eventually be fine! (Unless of course you really are a big American jerk, and get what you deserve :lol:

:lol

Que le vaya bien, Cathy!

ROTFLMAO

Dave - 5-29-2006 at 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cathart
I asked if there might be any way to speed up the process, since we have to move out of our house on June 25th, and will not be down in Baja in order to pick up the FM3 after June 13th. We were told that yes, they could be ready by June 13th!

cathart - 5-30-2006 at 01:45 AM

I actually wasn't complaining about the fine, and the official did give me the option of driving back to Tijuana to get the stamp instead of paying the fine. I was complaining more about having to duplicate paperwork already submitted and accepted in the States-- after I had already been given the FM3. It was just the address that needed to be written in, and I did have proof of that. And, as I pointed out, the time line seems to be flexible, when the right people are there to help. They just tell everyone "Come back in three weeks" as a matter of course! I was really making the post as a way of giving others here information that might be useful, because I'm sure I'm not the only one who will have these difficulties.

[Edited on 5-30-2006 by cathart]

[Edited on 5-30-2006 by cathart]

Bob and Susan - 5-30-2006 at 05:48 AM

Cathy...now that you've done that...

if you leave the country in the next three weeks you need a letter from imm and pay a $21.00 fee at the bank....to be legal

i'd stay there the 3 weeks

it's really not bad...3 weeks

it takes 6-8 weeks to get the USA passport...unless....you pay a EXTRA fee of $60.00 then you move to the front of the line...
WHAT A RIP OFF...

Bruce R Leech - 5-30-2006 at 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cathart
I actually wasn't complaining about the fine, and the official did give me the option of driving back to Tijuana to get the stamp instead of paying the fine. I was complaining more about having to duplicate paperwork already submitted and accepted in the States-- after I had already been given the FM3. It was just the address that needed to be written in, and I did have proof of that. And, as I pointed out, the time line seems to be flexible, when the right people are there to help. They just tell everyone "Come back in three weeks" as a matter of course! I was really making the post as a way of giving others here information that might be useful, because I'm sure I'm not the only one who will have these difficulties.

[Edited on 5-30-2006 by cathart]

[Edited on 5-30-2006 by cathart]

I think if I remember right you were warned to not do it that way from members of this fourm. :light:

Bruce R Leech - 5-30-2006 at 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by turtleandtoad
Let me get this straight. A local Mexican official can ignore the Federal Mexican laws, impose an illegal fine, and make you redo already approved paperwork, which you meekly do. And when you complain about it to fellow gringos, you're suddenly responsible for giving all gringos a bad name?

this is Mexico and you had better learn a little bit about the way the country works and some of the local customs before you come here. and if you donut like it then don't come.

David K - 5-30-2006 at 06:24 AM

Bruce, what is the sequence you recommend for getting an FM-3?

Say, for example... I want to live and work in Baja and have Mexican friends who would either hire me or assist me in setting up my own business?

turtleandtoad - 5-30-2006 at 06:41 AM

Is ignoring Federal law and picking on gringos a local custom?

I'm very familiar with how the country works Bruce, as I've pointed out on my website in the very first paragraph of the page on "Border Paperwork".

And, other than a few "misguided" individuals in positions of authority, I love Mexico and will put up with them to get across the border. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop complaining about them. Just like I complain about a few misguided individuals on the US side of the border on my way back.

Do you also condone mordida and think gringos should stay at home if they aren't willing to pay up and shut up?

rts551 - 5-30-2006 at 06:45 AM

Listen to what Bruce is saying. Advice has always been to go to the closest immigration office to where you are going to live as they need to establish an immigration file on you. Thus the need for the paper work.

Bruce R Leech - 5-30-2006 at 06:48 AM

1 check the Mexican website
2 Do a search of this forum for all info and read and try to sort out.
3 Visit the Immigration office that serves the aria where you will be living. Introduce your self and tell them what you are doing and ask them what you need to do to be legal in Mexico. they like this and it will get you started on a good foot with them.
4 get all your paper work in order and return to the office to complete your application
5 do not ever inter there office when you are in a hurry or if you are in a bad mood. and always treat them with the up most respect. and no mater what hoops they ask you to jump through stay calm and never show anger.

6 do all of this your self and don't hire some one to do it . you will gain there respect. it is vary easy. think of it as adventure not a chore

David K - 5-30-2006 at 06:51 AM

Thanks Bruce, that does sound like the Mexico I know... it is a very personal country and hand shakes still mean something there... I do know about 'Mexican Time' as well!

Bruce R Leech - 5-30-2006 at 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by turtleandtoad
Is ignoring Federal law and picking on gringos a local custom?

I'm very familiar with how the country works Bruce, as I've pointed out on my website in the very first paragraph of the page on "Border Paperwork".

And, other than a few "misguided" individuals in positions of authority, I love Mexico and will put up with them to get across the border. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop complaining about them. Just like I complain about a few misguided individuals on the US side of the border on my way back.

Do you also condone mordida and think gringos should stay at home if they aren't willing to pay up and shut up?

the answer to your first line is yes and if you cant live with that then you don't belong here. :lol:

the answer to your last line is now I have never paid mordida in all the years I have been in Mexico :light:

rts551 - 5-30-2006 at 07:00 AM

"do all of this your self and don't hire some one to do it . you will gain there respect. it is vary easy. think of it as adventure not a chore "

Bruce - While we did this the first tiem, I have used someone in Santa Rosalia to organize everything for renewals since then. I always go with her to the immigration Office and they know us well by now and understand why we do it (expediancy). They have come to visit us in Abreojos and have a soda or beer many times as the check out the area.

I have not found hiring anyone to be a problem as long as you still interact with the officials.

comitan - 5-30-2006 at 07:02 AM

Bruce

Gringo's are not used to jumping through the hoops, and some will never learn but if you want to make life easier on yourself when dealing with Mexican authorities you learn. All of your suggestions are very good but people have to leave that Gringolandia attitude at home.

Bruce R Leech - 5-30-2006 at 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rts551
"do all of this your self and don't hire some one to do it . you will gain there respect. it is vary easy. think of it as adventure not a chore "

Bruce - While we did this the first tiem, I have used someone in Santa Rosalia to organize everything for renewals since then. I always go with her to the immigration Office and they know us well by now and understand why we do it (expediancy). They have come to visit us in Abreojos and have a soda or beer many times as the check out the area.

I have not found hiring anyone to be a problem as long as you still interact with the officials.

be careful when hiring some one to do your papers. one trick they some times pull is to try to get you to sign a power of attorney. DON'T DO IT. do not ever sign a Mexican power of attorney. :light:

rts551 - 5-30-2006 at 07:45 AM

I agree with the power of attorney. Saw a neighbor's bank account go empty. But since Abreojos is 3 hours from Santa Rosalia it is helpful to have someone who stays up ion the local immigration office rules and acts as our secretary.

burro bob - 5-30-2006 at 08:17 AM

Guess I'll add my 2 cents worth.
I just turned in my paperwork to get my FM 3 renewed. I also wanted to get a lucrativa "work permit" added to it. I wasn't paying attention to the dates and I took it in on the day it was set to expire. The immigration officer had a whole office full of people. He took one look at my papers, heard what I needed and said " come back in on Monday, ask for me, no fine, we'll take care of everything then." I went back on Monday morning but still didn't have everything I needed for the lucrativa. I got the right paper and by the afternoon all was well and my FM 3 was on its way to Mexico City to get ammended. The immigration officer couldn't have been more helpful.
I got the impression that they prefer you to go through a paperwork handler. The immigration officer asked why I hadn't used one this time. I had the time before. He also informed me that he was setting up an office across from the bank to process FM 3's and other gringo specific paperwork. First it is another $30 or $40 that goes into the hands of the Mexican citizen that is handleing the paperwork instead of the government. Second, they have to deal with so many Gabachos that speak little or no spanish and don't understand the process, that they would rather have someone else make sure all the necessary papers are there and filled out correctly. It makes their job a lot easier. Bruce is correct in that you will gain some respect if you do it yourself as in suggestion #6 but only if you make sure you follow rule #5. Rule # 5 pretty much applies to any dealing with any business, bank or government office in Mexico.
David
To get my work permit they wanted a letter from the people employing me stating what I would be doing. They also wanted a copy of the latest tax statement from the company. This is to prove that a real taxpaying Mexican business is hiring me and not my friendly next door neighbor. That was all the hoops they expected me to jump through.
Also if you start your own Mexican corporation then you hire yourself, along with several locals. You then start paying taxes and social security and they like you because you have created employment opportunities. I'm not sure which comes first, the FM 3 or the corporation papers. Try to get a lucrativa at the same time you apply for the FM3 otherwise you get to pay a second time to make the change. Even though mine was going through a renewal it still cost more to make the change.
Also, something tells me that La Migra here in San Felipe is a lot more tollerant that in other parts of Baja.
burro bob

bajalou - 5-30-2006 at 09:27 AM

I agree with you BurroBob, la Migra here in San Felipe is very accomidating. Of course, even here, they perfer you don't tell them how to run their bussiness.