BajaNomad - Developer to ruin the solitude of San Pedro Martir?

Developer to ruin the solitude of San Pedro Martir?

bancoduo - 7-3-2006 at 08:51 PM

I suppose this is another eco- thing. Just when you think it can't get any worse BAM! :no:

[Edited on 7-4-2006 by bancoduo]

roundtuit - 7-3-2006 at 08:57 PM

I guess here we go again. I' m running out of money with all these eco-things
:lol:

bancoduo - 7-3-2006 at 09:03 PM

Sounds a lot like the scam from the eco-lady from Colonet. I said that with great restraint so I would'nt get zapped. :no:

surfer jim - 7-3-2006 at 10:01 PM

I am betting you have NEVER even been there...from a "gringo nutjob in off road vehicle"... :biggrin:

David K - 7-4-2006 at 12:30 AM

Hmmmm ???
Sounds like it must be right on the national park's southern boundry?
I bet it is a generation away in years before there is all that infrastructure... That is very difficult terrain (ask Jack Swords, Taco de Baja, Mexitron and any others who hiked to Mision San Pedro Martir), which is where this place sounds like is near.

Sharksbaja - 7-4-2006 at 01:12 AM

:lol:

Internet, power, bla bla bla http://realestate.escapeartist.com/P-2001750/

10,200 acres each with utilities, skiing, snowboarding. :lol:

COOL! NOT!
What a con.

Capt. George - 7-4-2006 at 04:08 AM

ski lifts, snow mobiles?

how do hyou build a Mexicano snowman...the mustachio is the hard part.

count me in for 241 and a 3rd hectares! $6.00 down and .78 cents a month for eternity...Capt Mike, you in?

bancoduo - 7-4-2006 at 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by surfer jim
I am betting you have NEVER even been there...from a "gringo nutjob in off road vehicle"... :biggrin:

I ski there every winter. What about you? :mad:

Bruce R Leech - 7-4-2006 at 07:41 AM

I'm in where do I sign. :lol:

Jack Swords - 7-4-2006 at 07:48 AM

Snow park? Golf course? This is a very remote and isolated area indeed. Medical care over the "high-speed internet"? I would really like to see a map posted so we can see this development's location. The only clue is that it is 4 miles from Picacho del Diablo (but let's call it "enchanted Mountain"...like Bahia Muertos is now Bay of Dreams). So, where is it exactly??? Sad.

Capt. George - 7-4-2006 at 08:08 AM

not where it snows!

also, anywhere in Baja that has Polar bears is considered outside the restricted zone.

In fact, I'm going to import a Polar Bear to Punta Abreojos and rent him a room in the freezer at the co-op :light:

......quick, get over there :moon:before the land-boom...

pappy - 7-4-2006 at 08:19 AM

unreal! seems like some kind of scam to me, but who knows???
being among the jack swords crew that hiked to the mission there i can tell ya it is beautiful and rugged. i can't imagine the roads would stay good for any length of time given the terrain and weather. i suppose they could have a parking lot at some trailhead and then you can hike in to your cabin.... :spingrin:

SNOW SKI & BEACH BAJA(On the Same Day)!

Bruce R Leech - 7-4-2006 at 08:59 AM

1 acre improved lots (Power/Telephone/Hi-Speed Internet to property) are ONLY $11,800.00.

I think I would buy one of thease :light:

bajalou - 7-4-2006 at 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by morgaine7
From their website:

Quote:

On one last note, all of our properties are outside the Restricted Zone. This means that foreigners can hold direct title to our properties.

Silly me, I thought all of the Baja peninsula was in the restricted zone.

There are several ares in Baja Calif that are out of the restricted zone - 50k from beachs and 100k from the border.

Sharksbaja - 7-4-2006 at 09:27 AM

Quote:

There are several ares in Baja Calif that are out of the restricted zone - 50k from beachs and 100k from the border.

Gee I thought that when they tweaked the Constitution to allow foreign ownership it made that law moot.

:?:

comitan - 7-4-2006 at 09:35 AM

Don't you guys realize this Bernie Woodard is very sincere and thinks he is doing a good service at least the man believes he is. One thing to consider if he doesn't someone else will, That also goes for Colonet.

Sharksbaja - 7-4-2006 at 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by comitan
Don't you guys realize this Bernie Woodard is very sincere and thinks he is doing a good service at least the man believes he is. One thing to consider if he doesn't someone else will, That also goes for Colonet.

You mean he's not doing it for money? What a guy!!

bajalou - 7-4-2006 at 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharksbaja

Quote:

There are several ares in Baja Calif that are out of the restricted zone - 50k from beachs and 100k from the border.

Gee I thought that when they tweaked the Constitution to allow foreign ownership it made that law moot.

:?:

No - no Fedicomiso required if not in the restricted zone.

bajalou - 7-4-2006 at 01:05 PM

pappy, Mexitron, Jack Swords, Taco de Baja

Is there anything in the pictures on their website that give you a clue as to where it be?

Don't see the "Rancho La Encantada" on the INEGI topo's of the area.

thanks

[Edited on 7-4-2006 by bajalou]

Dave - 7-4-2006 at 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lencho

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Swords
I would GUESS he's talking about (Rancho?) La Encantada, which indeed is about 4 miles WSW of the Picacho and about 8 miles from the observatory road. This is clearly within national park boundaries but he claims that it is old property that is somehow exempt.

In Mexico, it is common for both private and ejido land to be included within national park boundries.

bancoduo - 7-4-2006 at 08:22 PM

Lets cut thru the chit, All I want is the ski report :lol:

Bruce R Leech - 7-4-2006 at 08:38 PM

84 inches base 48 inches of packed powder with 16 inches of fresh down powder over night.

allanbartlett - 7-5-2006 at 05:21 PM

This is a pipe dream like most other Baja delusions of development grandeur. I can't see it getting off the ground.

bancoduo - 7-5-2006 at 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by allanbartlett
This is a pipe dream like most other Baja delusions of development grandeur. I can't see it getting off the ground.

Your statement was not phrased correctly. Instead of "pipe dream" you should have said SCAM. when the delusion turns to reality investors will have lost mucho $$$$$$$$$$$. :cool:

[Edited on 7-6-2006 by bancoduo]

TMW - 7-5-2006 at 07:25 PM

["Don't see the "Rancho La Encantada" on the INEGI topo's of the area."]

Lou it's south southeast of the observatory by about 8 miles. Due east of Rancho Viejo (both of em). In the almanac.

bajalou - 7-5-2006 at 07:28 PM

Thanks Tom - I forget the Almanac - usually just go to th INEGI tops

Mexitron - 7-5-2006 at 10:32 PM

Yah, that looks like La Encantada Meadow...glad I got to play on the mountain while I did. It got its name because travelers trying to find it said it kept changing locations...maybe it'll evade the surveyors too.

capt. mike - 7-6-2006 at 07:03 AM

yeah Geo. - i am in!

this guy admits he's still chasing JV $$................never gonna happen.

but IF it did, sure i'd stay there, get out of this heat!!

we flew over it, the peak and observatory yesterday going to mexicali from El Socorrito at SQ. really nice country from 8500'!!

and made a pass over the Meiling Rancho too.

no more SOC for me for a while.............way tooooooooooo hot!!
but we caught a lot of Dorados!!!

Mexitron - 7-6-2006 at 10:30 AM

Hmm...a road in from the north would come through the National Park; and from the south--that's some serious country to put a road through--the Sierra San Miguel, lots of $$$. I imagine they would use the existing road into the Rio San Antonio. I doubt it will happen though.

Something is fishy about this dude and the "development"

Taco de Baja - 7-7-2006 at 08:40 AM

The text on the website is poorly written, it mentions the 'high speed internet' connection that all the cabins will have 4-5 times (1-2 is ok but not over and over and over). Distances to various places are given in km in one sentence and miles in another (use one system, and stick to it, or include both). Plus there are lots of typos, spelling, and grammatical errors?.

And then there is this statement: "Before the development of this Resort was started, less than 50 Americans were ever authorized to visit these properties." WTF?

Plus there are only few places where you can see the Pacific and the Sea of Cortez at the same time, and all I believe are in the Park. Yet he states in the letter
?There are parts of the property that we will be building on that you will be able to see the Sea of Cortez and the Pacific ocean (sic) on a clear day.

Interesting there are no maps of the development just general descriptions:
30 miles from San Felipe, as the crow flies,
50 miles from San Quintin.
70 miles from the proposed new sea port at Colonet.
Less than 10 kilometers from the Observatory
4 mile hike to Picacho Del Diablo (Oh boy, I can hike to the top of Diablo in the morning and be back at my cabin for happy hour! :rolleyes:

)
The nearest house, in driving distance, is 30 kilometers away towards the Pacific Highway, and they don't even have electricity or telephone

The meadow in the picture may be La Grulla, it is narrow than La Encantada?.BUT aren?t both of these, and the 3rd large meadow, Vallecitos, in the Park?? Yet he implies they are all in the property with this statement:
?The property is at 6,000 to 8,000 feet in elevation, so it is about 20 degrees or so cooler than in the desert below. The trees around the property are as much as 300 years old. The boulders that you see in pictures of the property are really granite. I have attached pictures of 2 of the 3 high mountaing (SIC) meadows for everyone to look at. These two meadows range from 5 to 7 kilometers in length.

Plus, how did they manage to buy 73,000 aces? That?s 114 square miles or 295 square kilometers?.

[Edited on 7-7-2006 by Taco de Baja]

bajalou - 7-7-2006 at 08:57 AM

I was wondering about driving to the Sea of Cortez after skiing.

Bruce R Leech - 7-7-2006 at 09:35 AM

I don't think you will need to do that bajalou if they put in the high speed monorail . :lol:

bajalou - 7-7-2006 at 09:44 AM

Good point Bruce that's the thing to use.

Mexitron - 7-7-2006 at 10:01 AM

Yah, well I thought something was fishy about Diamante Del Mar too...yah, you may be right about the meadow being La Grulla Taco--just sort of figured they'd use the name Enchanted in the right meadow...been awhile since I saw them beauties. Still want to do a hike from the park down to Matomi, then down Arroyo Grande.....still up for that Taco?

Sharksbaja - 7-8-2006 at 01:01 AM

Is this guy a Canadian? :lol:

[Edited on 7-8-2006 by Sharksbaja]

Phil S - 7-8-2006 at 07:48 AM

Quote:

I ski there every winter. What about you?:

bancoduo. Glad I'm not the only one that's skiied those slopes. Easy to get to when your riding in "Tim Blixeth"s helicopter.

bajalou - 7-8-2006 at 07:55 AM

JR's handle before becoming JRBaja was "Ski Baja" with a picture of him on skiis

La Encantada

Barry A. - 7-8-2006 at 05:01 PM

I rode a horse into La Encantada for the day in 1954. We came over from La Grulla where we were camped for 5 days. La Encantada is nice, but not nearly as nice as La Grulla, and it is so close to the eastern escarpment that the wind really howls thru there in winter, or so I was told by our Mexican vaquero.

Access is going to be really a challenge, as you all say, it is surrounded by the pristine National Park. I think it is a pipe-dream, or at least I hope it is.

The country is a lot like Pine Valley in eastern San Diego county, but is flatter as it is on top of a plateau. Lots of huge granite boulders, something like Laguna Hansen, to the north in the Sierra Juarez, but lots dryer than L. Hansen----------still, it is nice.

At least that is the way I remember it (after 52 years????)

Mexitron - 7-8-2006 at 11:00 PM

Wow Barry, that's great that you have such an early experience of the San Pedro. Did you ride horses the whole trip or drive up the old lumber mill road?

Mexitron----------

Barry A. - 7-9-2006 at 10:25 AM

We drove from Melings to the diggings at Socorro ("La Conception El Socorrito" in the Atlas), where the road got so bad that we parked there. Meling Ranch supplied the horses, mostly to pack our gear in, but a few did ride all the way in. I walked to La Grulla via a steep trail that trended SSE from Socorro to La Grulla via "El Potrero". We camped at La Grulla for several days. On day 5, I talked the vaqueros into letting me ride bareback (there were no extra saddles) over to "La Encantada" with a few of the the "riding" group, and all of the vaqueros, for the day--------and it about crippled me :lol:

the horse I got had a prominant backbone---- :lol:

the vaqueros got a big kick out of that, and of course thought I was nuts!

On day 7, still at La Grulla, we ran out of food (basically), but the vaqueros supplied us with fresh killed venison, so all was well-----I remember they cramed the venison in their saddle bags, and we would pull it out and carve off a chunk-------worked just fine, for a few days. We were on the plateau for 9 or 10 days, as I recall. There were not a lot of deer that we saw, but the vaqueros knew where to find them.

We went out to Soccoro from La Grulla via what we called "Vallecitos" (not on Atlas map-----in Atlas approx. at the junction of "Los Pinos" Creek and the Observatory road----or possibly at "La Tasejera"---not sure) and then southwest [or west?, not sure] to La Corona, and down the existing 4x4 lumber road to Socorro and our cars. The "observatory road" did not exist at that time, nor did the observatory, but there was a crude "lumber road" at least as far east as "La Corona"
.

On that same trip, I hiked over to "Blue Bottle" with Bud Bernhard and gazed across the abyss to Picacho del Diablo--------deciding right there that I would NEVER make it to the top of the Devil Mt.----a decision that I have always regretted. Bud went on to conquor Picacho many, many times.

A Picacho celebrity, Edward "Bud" Bernhard, was with us on that trip, and sorta our guide, along with the vaqueros.

Looking at Bud Bernhard's hand drawn map, I cannot be sure of the location of what we called "Vallecitos"----it is somewhere between "La Tasajera" on the south, and "Los Pinos" drainage on the north. As I rememer it was slightly (several miles?) WNW of "Cerro la botella azul" (Blue bottle) and was a huge dry undulating meadow area with scattered mature Ponderosa pine. I just remember vividly it was HOT and DRY, and not particularly appealing-------but by then we were REALLY tired-----and hungry.

As you can tell, it is a trip that I NEVER will forget, and was one of the highlights of my life. Coincidently, one of my friends that went with me on that trip was supposed to drop by here yesterday, but he never showed up. We are all "independent" cusses. :lol:

Ken Cooke - 7-9-2006 at 10:58 AM

If the houses in this development were built *within* park boundaries, your drive outside to get the mail or pick up the newspaper would look like this:

Your drive down the "Sierra San Pedro Mountain Range" with your new neighbors from the USA and Canada will look like this:

What to do if a tree falls down, blocking your route to San Telmo???

For a mere $392,000.00 this "ski and horse property" can be yours!!

Look whose coming to BAJA!!LOL

[Edited on 7-9-2006 by Ken Cooke]

Great Photos, Ken.

Barry A. - 7-9-2006 at 11:15 AM

------it is a beautiful place, and I think it should be left just the way it is-------no development, and no more roads with the possible exception of a crude access road being built into the south end of the plateau from OUTSIDE the park, like around the old Mission site, but even that is questionable. (and the only reason I want a road down there is that I was never able to get into that country----------it is 'TOUGH' country, as several of our Nomads know!!!

Mexitron - 7-9-2006 at 07:10 PM

Thanks for the memories Barry, it indeed sounds like a trip of a lifetime. I know all the places you're talking about, Vallecitos, et al, but its been around eight years since Myron Smith and I used to explore up there. After his passing in 2000 we saved a few of ashes to be spread up there...by that point they had closed off most the fun areas to drive in so I haven't been back since, so my memory is already getting a little fuzzy about which place is which. I hope they leave it alone too. Magnificent country, especially south into the Matomi area.
Your trip sounds similar to one Walter Nordhoff wrote about in the old days of going on horseback into the San Pedro Martir with vaqueros for three weeks with nothing but coffee and beans. With the skill of the vaqueros they dined nightly on venison. He too, said it was the trip of a lifetime.

Mexitron-----------

Barry A. - 7-9-2006 at 07:32 PM

-----wow, MYRON SMITH------boy does that bring back memories. My wife and I camped with Myron Smith in Agua Caliente Canyon, with side trips to Barrendo, and other palm filled canyons in the mid- 60's----------this is south of Picacho Del Diablo, down on the east face of the Sierra San Pedro Martir. I do not believe that I was aware that he had passed away-----------a truly fantastic guy. At that time, I believe that he was involved in Borrego Agriculture in the Borrego Valley of Anza-Borrego Desert State Park.

Roberto - 7-9-2006 at 08:08 PM

Wow Ken, great pictures. Thanks for posting them, (for the 10th time). You need to get new pics, man (someone has already said that, I'm sure).

[Edited on 7-10-2006 by Roberto]

roberto-------

Barry A. - 7-9-2006 at 08:28 PM

No, nobody has said that, and they shouldn't. Ken's pictures were totally appropriate considering what the "thread" was about-----------what's your problem??? No, on second thought, don't answer that.

Ken Cooke - 7-9-2006 at 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roberto
Wow Ken, great pictures. Thanks for posting them, (for the 10th time). You need to get new pics, man (someone has already said that, I'm sure).

New pictures are coming June '07...

For now, here is the best I can do. La Presa Rodriguez to El Descanso... :no:

The Bumper Sticker reads: "Don't Trash Baja."

Mexitron - 7-10-2006 at 12:45 AM

Barry--I was fortunate enough to hook up with Myron for probably 30 or so trips in the 1990's...including lots of those palm canyon trips...Berrendo, Matomi, Carrizo, Palomar, etc. Man, I miss him. Sitting around the campfire and listening to stories or getting into spirited discussions. I was on his last trip in April 2000 to the Santa Isabella Canyon area with him and wife Nancy and Frank Nordhoff(grandson of Walter Nordhoff). Good trip, but 2 days after returning he contracted a staph infection and that was that.

I still go to Baja occasionally with his kids Brooks and Libby. His wife Nancy is healthy and doing well in Laguna. Myron sold the grapefruit orchards in Borrego somewhere in the late 80's or early 90's.

Did you know any of the Nordhoffs? I'm still in touch with Frank--he's 84 and going strong. He's got some great old stuff on Baja from Walter's era that I should make sure he archives somewhere.

David K - 7-10-2006 at 07:51 AM

Mexitron, it is great reading your stories of those past hikes with the 'great ones' of Baja! Please continue!

Mexitron-----

Barry A. - 7-10-2006 at 07:57 AM

No, never met the Nordhoff's, as near as I can remember.

I deffinitely agree with David K that your stories are super, and should be recorded for everybodies benefit.

Taco de Baja - 7-10-2006 at 08:17 AM

Great photos ken, but if the development happens, there will be paved roads, power lines, telephone lines, and don't forget those 'high-speed internet" lines he mentioned FIVE times in the marketing pitch......
The paved roads, (to the west AND east), will be needed to speed you down the mountain so you can ski in the morning, swim in the warm water in the afternoon, and be back to your cabin (that will be 30* cooler than the desert below) in the evening ...all this, only 4 hours south of the border. :rolleyes:

Mexitron, What?s this I hear that you may not go on our annual Pacific Coast trip? Better go now before it turns into another Rosarito. In 30 years, you can tell stories to all the young Nomads about ?the good old days? when we would not see another vehicle for the entire time we were there.... how we would trade the fisherman longosta for beer....the long surf break at the point, before they built the harbor...

Venison/guns in a park?

Cypress - 7-10-2006 at 10:42 AM

Could it be the "venison" the vaqueros produced was goat. Could you tell the difference? Hope the "venison" didn't cost extra.

Sharksbaja - 7-10-2006 at 02:03 PM

Barry, you should be famous! Good info and history blurb, thanx.

Mexitron - 7-10-2006 at 02:06 PM

Taco--it ain't over till the fat lady sings. Just got a lot of logistical stuff... moving to Texas, work and all that, plus the gas for the drive from Oregon. S'pose I could load up my truck for Fort Worth, then drive there via SoCal, unload it, go to Baja, then reload and on to red-sky country. Who's goin now on the trip y'all?

bajalou - 7-10-2006 at 02:16 PM

Years ago I'm told, there were quite a few deer in the Sierra San Pedro Matir. - told to me by a local doctor who used to hunt there.

Cypress-----

Barry A. - 7-10-2006 at 02:38 PM

-----nothing wrong with goat, tho this was not goat-------we watched them dress out the deer (1)--------the vaquero got it with one shot-----the only shot he fired the entire trip-----the rifle was an ancient 30/30 saddle rifle, lever action, with no blueing left on it, if it ever had any. If there were any regulations broken we were not aware of it----remember, this was 1954. And no, it did not cost any more----we had paid in advance.

We had 3 vaqueros on that trip, but only one had a rifle, and he carried it in his hands most of the time----like a mountainman of old-----he was one great guy, spoke little english, but we spoke passable spanish, so we got along well. We would not have starved if he had not produced the deer, but we would have been major hungery as all our "main" food had been eaten. The reason this happened is that we did not understand that we were to supply food for the vaqueros, in addition to ourselves-------we all got a big laugh out of that mistake, but it all worked out ok, especially when he brought in the deer meat.

By the way, the fellow that was on the trip with me in ' 54 came in last night, 2 days late, so he did show up, after all. I had not seen him in about 18 years, so that was great.

Venison/Goat

Cypress - 7-10-2006 at 03:47 PM

I have several goats on my place, deer also. Both are tastey if tender.

David K - 4-6-2009 at 09:13 AM

Bumping this 2006 thread for Geothermal-Shane