BajaNomad

Electricity

jimgrms - 8-3-2006 at 06:34 PM

While i am wide open on the elect subject jou folks that have flucuafion problems ( electric flucuations )grin next time you are in the states or a home depot get a couple of 10% booster transformers or a 20% one for e special circuit to run your appliances on motors don,t like to low a voltage and they express thier displeasure by smoking and sparking for some reason 10 0r 20 % higher is good for them but no more than that , folks in the const industry that used power tools used these transformers so as not to burn up thier tools , remember 10 to 20% boost no more than that ,, that is my lesson for the day i hope it saves some of you from having to by a new appliance so you will have some money to buy me a margurita some day jim g

jimgrms - 8-3-2006 at 06:36 PM

please excuse my puncuations and spelling my fingers have a mind ot thier own jim

jimgrms - 8-4-2006 at 06:26 AM

Lencho a elect load is measured in watts and is constant and is a prodcct of volts times amps if you have a drop in voltage the amps will increase to keep the watts constant causing heat amps cause heat...
a booster transformer will raise the voltage back up so the device will draw less amps and run cooler, i wish i could explain it better but then i would confuse myself jim

shari - 8-4-2006 at 06:01 PM

Ever wonder why most mexicans have a couple or more dead fridges or washing machines in their yard? Because of these low voltage problems, the motors just burn out. I burned out a couple computers too...ugh. How much $$$ is one of those gismos you're talkin about???? HELP

jimgrms - 8-4-2006 at 06:09 PM

Shari i haven,t bought one in years but will start checking tomorrow , right now it is 7:20 pm in colorado, but will let you know jim

Al G - 8-5-2006 at 06:54 AM

Autoformers only work when they are needed. Rhey are big $$$. See this link"
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-power-cords/hughes-aut...

jimgrms - 8-5-2006 at 07:43 AM

That is what i was thinking of but it was in the 70's since th i bought one , maybe that price is because of the ground fault stuff in them ,do they have ground fault ckts in mexico ? i will check some whole sale houses in so cal see what they got jim

[Edited on 8-5-2006 by jimgrms]

bajalou - 8-5-2006 at 08:38 AM

In San Felipe the voltage is often above 130 acording to a firend who retired here and worked for PGE in his former life.

jimgrms - 8-5-2006 at 09:46 AM

Larry when i lived in san bernardino ca edision would feed 8 to nouses off the same transformer and we got @108 volts took a lot of b-tching to get more transformers set
shari the post that al g sent check out that site that is what i was trying to describe i had no idea that they were so pricey think i only bought 1 or 2 and i was using my bosses money jim

wornout - 8-6-2006 at 08:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shari
Ever wonder why most mexicans have a couple or more dead fridges or washing machines in their yard? Because of these low voltage problems, the motors just burn out. I burned out a couple computers too...ugh. How much $$$ is one of those gismos you're talkin about???? HELP


I think I am lucky running off an inverter in a solar set up. My voltage is always around 100 to 103. Only things I have stacked up in my yard, in San Felipe, is motion lights. They don't like low voltage. Oh yea, and one 12 year old tv. I put 7 years on it on my inverter and 4 years before that in the old country. Fortunately I have a lap top and they run off a 110 brick which drops the voltage.

longlegsinlapaz - 8-6-2006 at 11:40 AM

All right all you "Electricity Gurus"....Can anyone tell me if this is why ALL my electric clocks....clock radio, stove, microwave & coffee-maker clocks all gain about 30 minutes a month & all at the exact same rate? Is there a single device that could be installed between the source & the usage to protect everything on the entire system? Voltage regulator SOUNDS like the right kind of thing, but would that compensate for drops, as well as spikes? So far, all I've had burn out was a surge protector for my PC! Which is not a good sign! Never knowing what time it really is, unless I'm at my PC or think to put my watch on, is aggravating, but the thought of potentially burning out an entire casa of new appliances is very sobering! Any suggestions for new construction to do things right from the beginning & hopefully prevent potential headaches & cost down the road?

comitan - 8-6-2006 at 12:32 PM

My opinion on fast clocks in the La Paz area is, instead of maintaing 60 cycles they run maybe 61 cycles.

longlegsinlapaz - 8-6-2006 at 12:58 PM

The WHYS & WHEREFORES are beyond my comprehension....but is there a realistically affordable work-around to protect appliances & could it be incorporated into new construction would be easier for me to wrap my mind around? I think....if it's a relatively straight forward yes/no answer! I need an answer geared toward an electrical novice!:lol:

[Edited on 9-27-2010 by longlegsinlapaz]

Power!

Cypress - 8-6-2006 at 01:23 PM

It's a magical thing! Flip the switch and all sorts of good things start happening.

comitan - 8-6-2006 at 01:36 PM

Use the info on the previouse posts.

turtleandtoad - 8-6-2006 at 01:57 PM

CLOCKS
Most home wall clocks are controlled by the cycles, not the voltage. So if the cycles are maintained at 60 Hz, the clock keeps good time. If the cycles go up or down, the clock runs faster or slower. More expensive clocks have compensating circuits that correct the error. Or buy battery powered clocks, they are cheap and will run for about 6 months to a year on one AAA battery.

Cycles are not affected by voltage line loss or your neighbor welding his Baja Buggy. The thing that pulls cycles down is large inductive or capacitive loads. so unless your neighbor is a large manufacturing plant or oil refinery, any cycles problem is being caused at the source. The gen set isn't running at a constant speed or that speed is too high or low.

GROUND FAULT PROTECTION
Ground fault protection relies on a good grounding system. That means you need a 3 wire system and 3 prong receptacles that are connected to ground correctly, plus the neutral also has to be grounded correctly. Trying to run ground fault circuits without that 3rd wire will cause constant trips. Most house wiring in Mexico I've seen are two prong. When I use my Autoformer on my RV, I normally have to run a separate ground wire to the water faucet (if it's not PVC pipe).

MOTOR PROTECTION
An Autoformer that cuts off when the voltage exceeds it's correction capablilty is your best bet. The second (and more expensive) solution is to install some kind of motor/generator or solid state power correction device. The third choice is to get off the grid completely, and go for your own soler/gen set system.

jimgrms - 8-6-2006 at 04:47 PM

Legs
yes but i don't think you can afford one do a search for auto transformers and volt age regulator nothing can be done for your clocks in fact my self winding watch keeps stoping jim

Natalie Ann - 8-6-2006 at 05:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
....but the thought of potentially burning out an entire casa of new appliances is very sobering! Any suggestions for new construction to do things right from the beginning & hopefully prevent potential headaches & cost down the road?


A quality electrical contractor I know sez: You might build in one of the smaller voltage regulators (transformer is included). Ideal casa wiring would put appliances with motors on one circuit if possible, and run only that circuit through the voltage regulator.

This allows for the smallest possible regulator which is less expensive. It also means lower operating costs as the regulator requires some power of it's own, even when it's not being used.

The cost can be further minimized by sizing the regulator to feed only the refrigerator and the largest other load, and then only operate one appliance at a time (in addition to refrig).

[Edited on 8-7-2006 by Natalie Ann]

jimgrms - 8-6-2006 at 06:55 PM

Lencho syncronous speed = 120xfrequency/poles of motor
120x60=7200/ 2=3600
so the speed can only be changed by the frequency which is controlled by the power co
also the zero reading from hot to ground is wrong most gov blds are ground faulted and if a meter is put across them , the ground fault will trip
disclaimer that formula came from a navy electricians school in 1955 and my memory is pretty much shot jim

turtleandtoad - 8-6-2006 at 07:35 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by turtleandtoad
Cycles are not affected by voltage line loss or your neighbor welding his Baja Buggy. The thing that pulls cycles down is large inductive or capacitive loads.


That'll certainly affect the phase, but I'm puzzled as to how that would affect the speed of a syncronous motor on the same line. How's that work?




--Larry


My bad, I've been retired too long :o You're right, the inductive and capacitive loads will shift the power factor, but have no effect on the cycles.

bajalou - 8-7-2006 at 09:02 AM

Unless they do something like the inverters to to product the cycles, the speed of rotation of the alternator is the governing factor on cycles. I think-

:cool:

comitan - 8-7-2006 at 09:03 AM

Excerpt:


Much like a DC generator, an AC generator requires a coil to cut across the force lines of a magnetic field. This coil is attached to two slip rings, which deliver the current to and from the load destination, thus completing the circuit. Alternating current generators are often called alternators.

During the first half turn, the coil cuts across the field near the magnet's north pole. Electrons travel up the wire, and the lower slip ring becomes positively charged. When the coil cuts near the South Pole of the wire during the second half turn, the lower slip ring becomes negatively charged, and electrons move down the wire. The faster the coil turns, the faster the electrons move, increasing the frequency (in Hertz) of the current produced by the generator

It seems as though the speed of the generator governs the cycles. But in La Paz the time increase seems to be consistant, so I don't think the load makes the difference, I think they just do not control the speed of the generator or possibly their RPM gauge is not correct.

[Edited on 8-7-2006 by comitan]

bajalou - 8-7-2006 at 09:07 AM

From a Google seach

"Recently, a new type of power station has been developed in which the power needed to rotate the generating coil is supplied by a gas turbine (basically a large jet engine which burns natural gas). In the United States and Canada the alternating emf generated by power stations oscillates at $f=60$Hz, which means that the generator coils in power stations rotate exactly sixty times a second. In Europe, and much of the rest of the world, the oscillation frequency of commercially generated electricity is $f=50$Hz."

turtleandtoad - 8-7-2006 at 02:50 PM

In Europe, and much of the rest of the world, the oscillation frequency of commercially generated electricity is "f=50Hz".

And fluorescent lights actually turn off and on at the frequency speed. That's why some people get headaches when around fluorescents lights running on 50 Hz. But that has nothing to do with the frequency in Baja.

It's a simple matter, really. Every generator has a certain amount of "slip" so that it can run in parallel with other generators. This means that it's possible for one generator running at 61 Hz to "pull down" all the other generators. So all it would take is one bad frequency meter to cause the problem.

Another scenario is that a mis-calibrated meter is on the main bus and is being used to set the speed of all the generators.

More than likely, it's a combination of both.

In the US, all meters have to be calibrated against a certified standard periodically. I doubt that is true in Baja.

comitan - 8-7-2006 at 03:16 PM

T&T Many thanks good to know why.

toneart - 8-7-2006 at 03:44 PM

I threw my clocks in the front yard. The only thing I notice now about time is the effect it has in the mirror.:wow:

turtleandtoad - 8-7-2006 at 03:50 PM

Time to throw the mirrors in the front yard with the clocks. :lol::lol:

jerry - 8-7-2006 at 08:37 PM

just jet a battery clock and get up early and go fishing:lol::lol::lol:

bajaguy - 8-7-2006 at 09:02 PM

I guess if you really need to know what time it is with any degree of accuracy, get one of those atomic clocks at COSTCO for about $15.00.........actually, I am on fireman time....sleep till you are hungry, then eat till you are sleepy