BajaNomad - Interesting about Toyota

Interesting about Toyota

TMW - 8-19-2006 at 08:33 AM

They may be growing faster than they should.

TW

Toyota: [Falling] Quality is Job One
By Frank Williams
August 18th, 2006 2,783 Views
Play word association with the average American consumer. Say the words ?quality cars.? Chances are they?ll respond with ?Toyota.? For decades, the Japanese automaker has carefully nurtured and perpetuated a reputation for producing well-built/reliable cars and trucks. As a result, the company?s US sales have grown like kudzu. As of last month, Toyota now sells more cars in the Americas than Ford. If you discount fleet sales (so to speak), Toyota?s totals are within shouting distance of GM?s, both nationally and worldwide. Despite this startling, seemingly unstoppable success, or perhaps because of it, the company?s supposedly impenetrable fa?ade has begun to show a few cracks.

Toyota?s first foray into US manufacturing began with a 25% federal tariff on foreign pickups. Toyota reacted to the punitive tax by importing bare chassis and attaching the truck beds in an American facility. When The Big Three (who were about to introduce their first domestic small trucks) pressured Congress into widening the tariff to include imported chassis, Toyota built an American plant to assemble complete trucks. Once the Japanese manufacturer realized they could build competitive vehicles stateside, they began expanding their American operations.

To avoid the United Auto Workers (UAW), Toyota situated their new factories in ?right to work? states. As many industry analysts have concluded, Toyota?s clean sheet factories (eventually aided by state-funded tax breaks) and non-union workforce gave them an immediate and unassailable advantage over their ?domestic? competition. While GM, Ford and Chrysler were busy appeasing their unions, draining funds which could have been used to upgrade their ageing products and antiquated production facilities, Toyota hit the ground running and never looked back.

At some point, Toyota became a victim of its own success. The company?s double quick expansion, from perennial underdog to voracious overlord, has compromised their unique selling point: product quality. Specifically, Toyota has suffered a plague of recalls around the world. In 2003, the automaker recalled 200k American vehicles. In 2004, the number increased fivefold, to a little over one million vehicles. In the following year, the number leaped again, more than doubling to 2.2 million. So far this year, Toyota has announced five recalls affecting approximately 900K vehicles.

Again, Toyota?s rapid growth is to blame. For one thing, the company?s design centers have been understaffed. The shortage of in-house talent has forced Toyota to outsource, relying on its parts suppliers to design key components. At the same time, the automaker has increased the amount of parts sharing among different models. The practice has dramatically increased the scope of a "single" failure, as witnessed by last October's recall of 1.27m Japanese vehicles. Goldman Sachs estimates that design faults (e.g. rubber parts not thick enough to withstand engine heat and joints too weak to hold together) account for 68% of Toyota?s 2004 recalls.

Andrew Phillips of Nikko Citigroup stated "Toyota's resources have been stretched quite a bit by the big increases in volume." Shinsei Securities analyst Yasuhiro Matsumoto lays the blame for Toyota?s declining quality squarely on Katsuaki Watanabe?s shoulders. He claims the CEO?s constant focus on cost cutting has created devastating production glitches. The resulting quality issues have become so alarming that Watanabe recently admitted, "I take this seriously and see it as a crisis." It?s just as well; Goldman Sachs analyst Kunihiko Shiohara estimates that it may take Toyota four years or more to achieve "a fundamental turnaround in quality levels.?

Toyota also seems to be off their game in predicting market shifts. True, the company displayed impeccable timing by importing the Yaris just as American demand for smaller, higher mileage cars kicked into high gear. But Toyota?s also about to begin production on a larger, heavier and more powerful full-size Tundra, assembled in a brand new $800m Texas plant. While Toyota sells the high mileage cars tree huggers love to hug, they also have the thirstiest truck fleet on the market. And now that large truck sales seem to be tanking, they?re gearing-up to produce them in record numbers. Only time will tell if they?ve made a smart move (i.e. if sales recover or GM goes bankrupt), but at this point their timing could hardly be worse.

Earlier this year, Toyota announced they were delaying the introduction of the new Corolla for a year to focus on the launch of the new Camry. This will leave the current generation Corolla in service for a Big Three-like six years. While the move could reflect a redoubling of Toyota?s commitment to quality, it gives the model?s competitors some much-needed breathing room. Is this a minor setback in Toyota?s relentless march on American market share or warning signs of a more fundamental, less easily solved problem? It?s too early to tell. But stay tuned. We?re on it.

Bob H - 8-19-2006 at 08:37 AM

Corolla..... Camry...... who cares about those cars. Get a Ford truck and go anywhere with pride.
Bob H - an American with pride :lol:

Bruce R Leech - 8-19-2006 at 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob H
Corolla..... Camry...... who cares about those cars. Get a Ford truck and go anywhere with pride.
Bob H - an American with pride :lol:

I agree 100%

but I am so disappointed in all newer cars as to the amount of plastic they are using. :barf:

David K - 8-19-2006 at 09:21 AM

"But Toyota?s also about to begin production on a larger, heavier and more powerful full-size Tundra, assembled in a brand new $800m Texas plant"

Does this count?

Axel - 8-19-2006 at 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob H
Corolla..... Camry...... who cares about those cars. Get a Ford truck and go anywhere with pride.
Bob H - an American with pride :lol:

I agree 100%

but I am so disappointed in all newer cars as to the amount of plastic they are using. :barf:

Bruce, I agree but its not so much the use of plastic its the use of the type of plastics and design. Being in the plastics industry all the plastic can be made bullet proof but it all comes down to cost. Plastic has been so engineered in the last 25 years that it is being used to replace many other material. The down fall is that many manufactures are cutting cost and only making things " good enough " so they can keep costs down. I for one am getting very tired of this because you can not by quality anymore. I would gladly pay more for something that would not break in short use of it. Manufactures are creating there own reputation. At one time things were built to last. It doesn't take much more but a little here and there adds up on the finnished product and then it is priced out of the market.

Bruce R Leech - 8-19-2006 at 11:00 AM

they seem to be making cars to last 10 years. where in the past you could expect 20 or 30 years of service with reasonable care.

You bought better cars than I did!?

thebajarunner - 8-19-2006 at 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
they seem to be making cars to last 10 years. where in the past you could expect 20 or 30 years of service with reasonable care.

That is an amazing statement!
The last three new cars I bought were a 1994 SHO, 1999 F-150 and 2002 Honda CRV.

I have, respectively, 140,000 miles, 129,000 miles and 41,000 miles on these vehicles. I never had a reason to take any of them in for warranty, they were "good to go" out of the box. None have had any serious problems, and the Honda only requires service, per the book, every 10,000 miles.

The stuff I bought in the 60's and 70's never once made 100,000 miles.

So, I believe, plastic and all, that today's car/ truck is simply a marvel of engineering and endurance. That is my personal experience, sorry about yours.

Bob H - 8-19-2006 at 02:11 PM

1-million miles and still going!!!

http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/ford/crownvictoria/12847/ra...

Bob H

Frank - 8-19-2006 at 08:25 PM

My wife wanted another Camry, until we sat in a new one. Lots of plastic, and it didnt feel right to her.
She always liked the Ford Sport Trac {1/2 truck 1/2 suv} I told her we already have a F350 Crew. She drove it and picked the 2007 version. Just so happens it comes with the Mustang GT V8 motor, transmission and brakes. God I love that woman!

do the math

thebajarunner - 8-19-2006 at 09:14 PM

Let's see..

Cars 20 years ago got 10 mpg
today they get 25

cars 20 years ago went 99,000 miles
today they go 200,000 and you get tired of them

cars 20 years ago were in the shop a lot
today they never see the shop except for tires and lube jobs

cars 20 years ago had to have tuneups.
Tuneups????

Yep, those were the good old days, weren't they???
NOT!!!!!

David K - 8-19-2006 at 09:25 PM

Hi guys... today (Aug. 19) my 2005 Tacoma is ONE YEAR old!!!

The odometer is at 35,777 miles...

Breakdowns: 0

Repairs: 0

Issues: Rear suspension should be stiffer, I don't like the ABS brake system on dirt roads, there was a squeel from the front right brakes until I had new pads installed when it was time for them to be replaced, and the ABS engaged a couple times when I don't think it should have.

Would I recommend a Tacoma to a serious Baja driver: Yes, you bet. I have owned American vehicles and know what hell they can play upon you.

Bob and Susan - 8-19-2006 at 11:32 PM

David this isn't 1970...

Toyota Motor Corp. produced more than 1 million vehicles at its North American assembly plants last year.

Toyota is now this country's fourth-largest automaker, will continue to produce as many vehicles in the United States it can sell.

Its list of North American-made vehicles includes
Camry,
Corolla,
Avalon,
Sienna
Tundra and Tacoma pickup trucks.

You have an American Made machine :yes:

Wait a second....

Sharksbaja - 8-20-2006 at 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
Hi guys... today (Aug. 19) my 2005 Tacoma is ONE YEAR old!!!

Would I recommend a Tacoma to a serious Baja driver: Yes, you bet. I have owned American vehicles and know what hell they can play upon you.

David, don't you lease those Tootas? So it's not really yours is it? :lol:

Debra - 8-20-2006 at 03:59 AM

Sharks???? I have to wonder, just what is your point?

And David....Let's not be 'dising' American vehicles, I just sold my '90 T-Bird (guy at the corner store kept begging me) I've loved that car for all of those years, never, ever had one bit of problem with it.....tires, battery replacement, normal stuff....she still gets 29 mpg! The only reason I sold her was that I don't have a place to park her here, and she needed a good home. I almost backed out of the deal when I was driving her over, Dang, that car drives nice! We made many a trip to Baja together (she wasn't enjoying the ride) Now I have my 'infamos' 4 Runner From Hell, that I've replaced just about everything in (including 2 engines!) Brand new now......(well, except for the thrashing my son Dustin gave it on a camping trip)

Debra - 8-20-2006 at 04:10 AM

Oh, I should also mention (discloser) I also bought a brand spanking new Ford Taurus in '04, 16 mpg! What's up with THAT?! ..... in the shop now for Tranny problems, among other issues....AND, this isn't the first time! Got to love those "bumper to bumper warrenties!"

Bob and Susan - 8-20-2006 at 06:52 AM

sharks...

possession is 99%

david has the truck...

it's in HIS garage...

he get to pay the license and insure it

he gets to pay to replace the brakes...

he get to wash it...

he feels GOOD about it...

his lease is just another way to pay for comfort and the "American WAY"...
:spingrin:

again... this ani't 1970

People who buy cars and trucks are really out of the "real world economy" :spingrin:

MICK - 8-20-2006 at 07:20 AM

From someone who tows cars for a living I can tell you that Toyotas break down just as much as fords or Gms. My son is a toyota mechanic and he makes perrty good money and it's not from sitting around.
That said, I think toyota makes a great product both cars and trucks I own an f350 and my wife drives a lexus rx 300.(toyota) Some day I would like to downsize and when I do it will be a tacoma. I think it's to bad that the big three in the us can't keep up with toyota. I think that when the new toyota truck comes out ford will have there hands full. They made the mistake of putting all there eggs in the f-150 basket and they might be in trouble. IF Ford wants back on top they better think of a way to compete with the camary and corolla. Also toyota is the only ones building a high bred that works. Not that i would buy one but there is a market for them and with gas prices on the rise it's only a matter of time.
In the end I really don't care what I drive if it gets me to baja!! Maybe I'll get lucky and it will break down and I'll have to stay there.
MICK

David K - 8-20-2006 at 08:02 AM

Amen brother!

Hey guys, I never said my truck wasn't American made... just not an American company... Where ever the Toyota is made it continues to be an exceptionally well made car/ truck... No rattles or poor fitting doors, stupid stuff, yah know.

Leasing and purchasing are the same... the lending institution owns the car until it's paid for! Leasing was the only way I could afford to drive a $30,000 pickup... WE irrigators are not THAT rich!

Debra, American cars were great (once)... and maybe many are great again... I just can't afford to find out if that's true.

Have a great day amigos!

Jack Swords - 8-20-2006 at 08:41 AM

Here's Autoweek's predictions for future Toyotas. Just got a new 4Runner, rides like a car. Now we'll see how it does in Baja. Still have the Tacoma, but the skid plates are all bashed up so this winter we'll start in on the 4Runner.

Autoweek Predictions for Upcoming Toyota/Lexus Vehicles

In order to become the world's largest automaker you need a gameplan, and Toyota's apparently got one. AutoWeek has peered into its crystal ball and consulted each one of its inside sources to chart the changes at Toyota and Lexus over the next five years. Here's what they foresee for the Japanese juggernaut minus vehicles that have recently been introduced or substantially redesigned.

TOYOTA

* Prius – Redesign for 2010 or 2011 with plug-in capability, still odd looking
* Corolla – Redesign delayed until 2008 to combat Honda Civic and Mazda3
* Matrix – Redesign after Corolla in 2009, destination vehicle for Scion owners
* Camry Solara – Killed after 2008, coupe could return by 2010
* Supra – Not going to happen, all rumors to the contrary false
* Sienna – Redesign for spring 2009 with hybrid version
* Highlander – Redesign for 2008 on larger Avalon platform
* FT-SX – New large crossover for 2008 similar to Chrysler Pacifica
* Tundra – 2007 model arrives in January, heavy-duty versions possible
* Sequoia – Redesigned for 2008 on new Tundra platform
* Land Cruiser – Reengineered version arrives in 2008

Follow the jump to see what AutoWeek believes Lexus will be up to in the coming years.

[Source: AutoWeek]

LEXUS

* IS250/350 – Coupe variant for 2008 (What about the IS500?)
* LS460 – 2007 model about to bow with LS600hL hybrid version
* SC430 – Redesign in mid-2007 to compete with BMW 6-Series
* LF-A – Arrives late 2007, early 2008 with 500-hp V8
* RX350/400h – Redesign in early 2008 to compete with larger Acura MDX
* JX470 – For mid-2007 built off GS platform to compete with Infiniti FX35/45
* Small crossover – RAV4-based luxury mini-ute being considered

Detroit better get going on the Hybrids...a Sienna hybrid! Plugin capability for the Prius!

Speaking of Toyota---------

Barry A. - 8-20-2006 at 08:59 AM

-I know that this expands the subject somewhat, but does anybody have any experience in the comparison of the new Toyota FJ-Cruiser and the Nissan X-Terra? Both sound like great vehicles, from what I have read.

TMW - 8-20-2006 at 11:12 AM

Barry my son has an X-Terra and he likes it a lot. However with 3 kids and a wife it's a little small. I gave him my old 91 chevy 4x4 extended car with 230,000 miles to help out.

Debra

Sharksbaja - 8-21-2006 at 12:02 AM

I always remembera certain trip to Mulege in the late 60s. A buddy drove his Land Cruiser. It had sooooo many probs and it cost us a huge amount of time to keep him afloat. That probably did it for me for ever on them. Of course they are a decent ride or better nowadays.
In re to the point about DK leasing his Baja ride, well I find that interesting in many respects but I wasn't really trolling. I would think other like-minded folks may be thinking about leasing and DK is obviously in-the-know about that subect. David did answer a question. :yes:

jimgrms - 8-21-2006 at 07:08 AM

I have found That if cars are maintained properly and not beat to death they will last a long time. i am on my second jeep cherokee the 87 had a little over 250.00 and my 2000 is turning 80,000 and neither has ever let me down,, i plan in the next year to get a honda element , awd just for the versitility and the economy, it is the closest thing i can find to the old vw mini bus and with awd should work good. i have no need for a large vehicle and if i have to i can sleep comfortably in one also i have never bought a new car usually one with 30,000 or so miles .

[Edited on 8-21-2006 by jimgrms]

TMW - 8-21-2006 at 07:28 AM

If you plan on keeping a vehicle a long time it's better to buy. If you plan on changing often, evey three years or so, it's cheaper to lease. However with the milage that DK puts on a truck it would seem to cost a lot . Most leases have a 12,000-15,000 per year milage limit. What is your lease based on DK.

[Edited on 8-21-2006 by TW]

David K - 8-21-2006 at 07:58 AM

Tom, there is NO milage penalty if I buy or lease another Toyota. So, it is a good thing I liked my first one and it was so flawless.

The trade in value is lower due to the high milage, but that is the only negative. Besides, what is the vehicle for... to sit in the garage? NO! It is for driving!!! It is my ONLY vehicle, and as I drive about 50-100 miles a day in my irrigation business, Baja trips aren't the only reason I put 3 years of miles on in just one year!

I agree buying is better... the only reason to lease is to lower the monthly payments to something I can afford as I didn't have a huge down payment available.

Debra - 8-21-2006 at 07:46 PM

I'm have to ask

....David, just how many miles did you put on the old one? It just amazes me how many miles people put on cars these days.... I bought the T-Bird in '91 with 32k on it, and when I sold it last week it had 147000k......Never even had a tune-up, never needed it!

Debra - 8-21-2006 at 08:02 PM

Sharks:

I've also wondered about leasing (asked DK about it years ago myself) What I decided from his explanation made sense for him (and many others) high miles driven, don't have a trade-in or big cash for a down payment.......For me, I can't stand a car payment (I broke out in hives when I financed the T-Bird, paid it off in 1 1/2 yrs.) I also tend to keep it a car FOREVER! (my brothers make fun of me!) Guess it's one of those Mars/Venus things, men seem to need different and new, women like old and comfortable. :lol:

Oh oh-----Now you have done it, Debra

Barry A. - 8-21-2006 at 08:05 PM

----I own 5 vehicles, the newest being a 1997, the oldest being a 1969, so there!!!! and they are all paid for.

Debra - 8-21-2006 at 08:34 PM

Yes Barry, thanks for reminding me (men also seem to need several

I'm doning my bullet proof undies as we speak.....LET THE NAPALM FLY!

Yes, Debra you are right, this time-----

Barry A. - 8-21-2006 at 08:45 PM

each of my vehicles fills a different nitch, and they are all ABSOLUTELY necessary!!!!! :tumble:

Debra - 8-21-2006 at 08:51 PM

:lol:

TMW - 8-22-2006 at 07:13 AM

Speaking of Toyota, the Camry on Monday made it's first offical on track appearance for Nascar at Michigan International Speedway. Bill Elliot, Michael Waltrip and Dave Blaney drove them. The cars had truck engines since Toyota has not yet gotten approval on it's Nextel Cup engine. Called the Car of Tomorrow. It is being phased in starting in 2007 and will be used exclusively in 2009. For those of you not familiar with the Nascar design, they use the same frame and much of the same mechanics for all the cars as approved by Nascar. They are rear wheel drive with the engine up front. The engines are from the manufactures.

Note to tw... it is NASCAR

thebajarunner - 8-22-2006 at 08:55 AM

Not Nascar
And he is correct, the bodies are identical, only difference is the grill pattern and the logos.
And, they still use carburetors, not injection.
Only the manufacturer's engine must be the same, and Chevy can use any GM motor, just not one of the other major companies.
And yes, Toyota will be big in a few years, they came to trucks pretty wimpy, now they win lots of races, more than their share, actually.

Update from Jayski

thebajarunner - 8-22-2006 at 10:23 AM

From www.jayski.com:

Toyota submits engine: Toyota has submitted its proposed Nextel Cup engine to NASCAR but is still awaiting a response, Lee White, Toyota Racing Development senior vice president, said Monday. The Toyota teams at the "car of tomorrow" test at Michigan were using truck motors with Cup-approved carburetors. "The engine that we're using here is essentially a hot-rodded truck engine," White said. "It's a truck engine brought up to Cup power specifications. It's not the engine that we will be racing in February in Daytona." White said he presented the block and cylinder head to NASCAR two weeks ago. "It's really a matter of them getting all of the right people in one place ... to look at the parts and talk about what the engineers are seeing and make sure they agree with the box that they've described," White said. "Once that's done, I would expect that we would have final approval. At this point, there's no indication that there is any issue."

also, Jayski has a very cool photo of MW driving the new Car of Tomorrow Toyota posted today!!
Check it out!!!

bajajudy - 8-22-2006 at 12:40 PM

Tribunal newspaper in San Jose is running a full page ad for Toyota trucks "Hecho en Baja"...

[Edited on 8-23-2006 by bajajudy]

TMW - 8-22-2006 at 06:21 PM

thebajarunner is correct, it is NASCAR. So don't sic the hounds on me yet.

TMW - 8-22-2006 at 06:29 PM

I didn't know they were building any Toyota trucks in Baja but I wouldn't be
surprised. I've read a couple of reports that the new bigger Toyota V8 will be a 5.7L.

"[Toyota teams at the "car of tomorrow" test at Michigan were using truck motors with Cup-approved carburetors. "]

Ivan's V8 Tundra Throphy Truck had a throttle body Injector for each cylinder.

TW- you 'da man!

thebajarunner - 8-22-2006 at 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
thebajarunner is correct, it is NASCAR. So don't sic the hounds on me yet.

The NYTimes insists on calling it Nascar.....
A truly despicable rag that hates everything outside of Yankee Stadium.
Every time I see "Nascar" it reminds me of those who hate the sport.
And, I know you are a true fan...
thanks for clarifying!

TMW - 8-23-2006 at 07:21 AM

Living in Bakersfield we have our share of NASCAR drivers with Mears and Harvick. Being an Off-Road follower I'm always interested in Robby Gordon, where ever he races.

Bajalero - 8-23-2006 at 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
I didn't know they were building any Toyota trucks in Baja but I wouldn't be
surprised. I've read a couple of reports that the new bigger Toyota V8 will be a 5.7L.

"[Toyota teams at the "car of tomorrow" test at Michigan were using truck motors with Cup-approved carburetors. "]

Ivan's V8 Tundra Throphy Truck had a throttle body Injector for each cylinder.

TW : TJ has a plant that has been making Tacomas since 2004 . I don't know if these are sold just in Baja or imported into the US

http://www.toyota.com/about/news/manufacturing/2005/02/01-1-...

Also , in another year or two Toyota is supposed to have a full size diesel to compete with Dodge and ford.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=108724

Ken Cooke - 8-27-2006 at 04:30 PM

My '94 Ford Ranger XLT had nothing but trouble. I bought it w/48K mi. and nursed it to 191K mi 8 yrs. later. Nothing but trouble once the clock hit 100K mi. I have an '03 Jeep Wrangler, and at 60K mi. I have not had such a reliable vehicle. It will take me anywhere I want to go in Baja without any issues (as long as the $5 gas cap fails to seal tightly).

Ford Ranger XLT Photo

Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Photo