BajaNomad

Cancelling First Baja Expedition plans

G35Vortec454 - 8-21-2006 at 05:47 PM

With all these reported violence and lawlessness in Baja, who wants to put themselves in a helpless situation? Is the Baja adventure worth it?

I'm seriously thinking of bringing my tourism money up north in the continent. At least in Oregon or Washington or even in Alaska or Canada, there is such thing as self-defense, not total helplessness as in Baja. They're no Baja, but there's adventure up there as well.

Very disappointing, sad.


roundtuit - 8-21-2006 at 06:00 PM

Look we all hear of these horronus things happening in Baja and we all panic.
Well consider this what are your chances of this happening to you. Now what are you chances in the of a burglary in your home, a car jacking to or from work.
a drive by shooting of a neighbor kid. a road rage where they try to run you off the road or maybe take a shot at you in your home town......
I'll take Baja any day !!!!!!

roundtuit------------NOT ME!!!!!

Barry A. - 8-21-2006 at 06:25 PM

roundtuit - 8-21-2006 at 06:28 PM

Yes I have reconsidered this and I think Baaja is scary I think we should all go to Oregon, Washington , or Canada for the winters:
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

kingpin - 8-21-2006 at 06:31 PM

That is one Amazing looking rig! Consider this, Gas is MUCH cheaper down here. If that matters to someone who can afford to drive such a vehicle.

roundtuit - 8-21-2006 at 06:35 PM

Barry read the record search light, but not on Monday waste of 50 cents

Huh??????

Barry A. - 8-21-2006 at 07:55 PM

I do not get the Monday "Record Searchlight" -------

Barry A. - 8-21-2006 at 07:58 PM

in Redding, so it must have been the Sunday paper where I saw all those car clouts posted----------I should have been more specific.

toneart - 8-21-2006 at 08:11 PM

Hey vortec,

You should be OK in that armored vehicle of yours. Did you buy it from Brinks?:yes:

Diver - 8-21-2006 at 08:14 PM

I would take your rig to a nice little state or county campground where you'll be safe !

Now wait, didn't some crazy camper shoot a bunch of his camp-mates last year ?

Maybe just park it in the backyard, lock the gate and turn on the security system before going to bed ?

Nah, better just go for the hotel room, eh ?? :lol:
.

Debra - 8-21-2006 at 08:19 PM

Looks like a converded Chevy van to me. :?:

Or is that a Dodge?

[Edited on 8-22-2006 by Debra]

AmoPescar - 8-21-2006 at 08:24 PM

Commander Vortec,

That thing looks like something you command not drive. With your turret
mounted Laser Cannons, you should be safe. Just blast them to smithereens!!! ...LOL :O

But seriously, if you want to head to Baja Sur, you might want to try the Sea of Cortez side. Most of the violence seems to be on the Pacific side. Consider starting out with a trip to San Felipe and then head south through Gonzaga and such. Stop by Coco's Corner and show Coco your ride. He'd love to see it.

Amo Pescar :coolup:

kingpin - 8-21-2006 at 08:36 PM

The Solar panels on top are a nice touch!

I Believe!!!!!!!!!!

A Vortec 454 is a GM product.

[Edited on 8-22-2006 by kingpin]

vgabndo - 8-21-2006 at 08:38 PM

Vortec...you stand a much better chance of getting crapped-on trying to get through what I call BakersDiego. The crime rate in that part of California makes Baja seem like the land of the saints. If you go to the northwest, you CAN get your campground reservations at Ticketron. Your choice, mine is my beloved Baja.

Loretana - 8-21-2006 at 08:41 PM

'Come on, G- Vortec......

The rateros out there who are cruising for an easy hit are going to take
one look at your war wagon and go on to the next vulnerable looking rig!

That happy little ride of yours looks "Muy Listo" amigo..........;D

Debra - 8-21-2006 at 08:46 PM

Vag? "Ticketron"?

Bajaboy - 8-21-2006 at 09:03 PM

Yes, I think Oregon and Washington would be much safer. In fact, I think that maybe we should rename this board to Northwest Nomad.

Seriously, though, times are a changing. We need to be a bit more careful when we travel. But come on now, the crime rate in Baja is nothing compared to half of the cities you'll drive through on your way to the Northwest. Each day I read about the driveby shootings, muggings, etc., etc.

If it will make you feel any better, I'll save some clippings from the San Diego paper for you to review and you'll feel plenty safe in Baja.

Zac

Mike Humfreville - 8-21-2006 at 09:34 PM

Right on Zac! Nail hit directly on head! We can continue your thought by boarding up our windows and doors and boil our water and put up Not Welcome signs. Many of us go to the most remote places in Baja and never have a problem, only assistance when needed. You don't live a full life hiding from everything.

While I wouldn't in any way try to sell this idea, I wonder if the recent arrest of our least favorite drug lord could have anything to do with the problems, invented or actual, with recent crime. Could the gangs be recipricating against the police? Are the gangs trying to show the enforcement folks just how little power they have? Just an off-the-wall thought.

jerry - 8-21-2006 at 09:36 PM

hea vortec your rig seems like it will handel it can you??
baja is a state of mind as much as a place dont let the rags live your life for you
we all had a first time all had reservations and we all heard the stories
looking back welllllllll i wouldnt have changed a thing
and it was long before this board was here to lead you throu the stuff
injoy the ride

Packoderm - 8-21-2006 at 10:54 PM

Maybe you can trade in that van for an old, beat up looking VW van like mine. Then you won't have to carry all that cash around for gas. Buy a bunch of traveler's checks and if anybody tries to rob you, just immediately belly up and hand over your couple of hundred in cash and your traveler's checks. You'll probably be ok.

Packoderm - 8-21-2006 at 10:55 PM

Well, not like the one in my avatar, but one like what I actually drive.

V-tec

Sharksbaja - 8-22-2006 at 12:16 AM

You should not let yer fears of travel stop you from experiencing the world. If you think Oregon is the place to go....well, it is beautiful, the sky is clean and the tourists are thick on the coast. That is in the summer.:lol:
In the winter ALL the Calif folks retreat;they've never SEEN so much crappy weather. Why the heck do you think it's STILL beautiful aqui?:smug:

My friend.....take a chance. :yes: Just roll up the windows on that thing....you'll be safe!:yes:

BEWARE, BEWARE, BEWARE!!!

BajaNews - 8-22-2006 at 02:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G35Vortec454
With all these reported violence and lawlessness in Baja, who wants to put themselves in a helpless situation? Is the Baja adventure worth it?

I'm seriously thinking of bringing my tourism money up north in the continent. At least in Oregon...

Beware! Beware! Beware! Reports in the last two days from Oregon:

Armed and Dangerous Fugitive On The Loose!

Armed and Dangerous Drug-Growing Operators!

Increase in Dangerous Wildlife!

Felons from Prison On The Loose!

;)

Osprey - 8-22-2006 at 06:24 AM

Seems the crime wave has reached all the way down here to Baja Sur. Couple of days ago some criminal drew graffita in the dust on the window of my Izusu Trooper. It said "Lava Me". I don't know what that means. Probably a local gang thing. Maybe they call themselves the Volcanos or something. Probably just marking their turf. I'm gonna report it if they do it again.

TMW - 8-22-2006 at 07:21 AM

Do what you must do. But starting Nov 15 thru the 29 I suggest you all stay up north and out of Baja. It will be too dangerous down there. Please spread the word. I don't want to see any of you in trouble or hurt.

Bob H - 8-22-2006 at 08:47 AM

I am headed down to Ensenada TODAY! I'll give you a first hand report upon my return.
:rolleyes:
Bob H

Bruce R Leech - 8-22-2006 at 08:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
I am headed down to Ensenada TODAY! I'll give you a first hand report upon my return.
:rolleyes:
Bob H


I am heading to Ensenada today also. Ill see you there.:O

Bob H - 8-22-2006 at 09:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
I am headed down to Ensenada TODAY! I'll give you a first hand report upon my return.
:rolleyes:
Bob H


I am heading to Ensenada today also. Ill see you there.:O


Bruce, I hope to be having lunch around 1pm at c-ckteleria Mazatlan right across the street from the bus depot on 10th ave.

David K - 8-22-2006 at 09:40 AM

As Bruce has a 600 mile drive to Ensenada vs. your 90 mile drive, I think maybe you guys won't see each other?:no:

Have fun Bob!!! Post a photo of you eating an Almeja al carbon with your new hat on!;D

capn.sharky - 8-22-2006 at 09:48 AM

At least you can cross the boarder without unloading all your water bottles, fingernail clippers, gels, etc. I can't remember seeing a single raghead in Baja. I haven't seen any camels parked along the road. The only car bomb I know of is after having eaten mucho beans with my tacos. On the other hand, I hear Iraq and Iran are lovely vacation spots in the fall. No, I'll still take my chances in Baja Sur---land of peace and quiet---on the Mar de Cortez.

surfer jim - 8-22-2006 at 10:10 AM

tw....sounds like pre-run/ race days to me!!!!......

Relax and enjoy!!!

BajaCactus - 8-22-2006 at 12:19 PM

Hi guys... I think anywhere we travel around the world, if there are humans present, we will always be exposed to those few bad people who are always on the look to take advantage of the good ones... no matter the country.

The best advice is to use your common sense.

You know, it is funny... I have live in Baja for 35 years... and I have never ever been mugged, or assaulted, or anything like that.

Well.. only once... someone broke into my car... they forced the door and went in for the stereo.... and this was in Spring Valley, San Diego, CA.

Enjoy life my friends!!!

BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."

[Edited on 8-22-2006 by BajaCactus]

bajamigo - 8-22-2006 at 03:30 PM

The Ensenada police are looking for a new paddy wagon. Slap a couple of cop lights on that rig and you're there.

TMW - 8-22-2006 at 06:35 PM

ssshhh surfer jim don't tell anyone.

Bedman - 8-22-2006 at 07:09 PM

Vortec,

Don't let these guys get to you. We all have our comfort levels when out of our realm.

While I don't think Baja is as safe as in past years, I also don't think it's any more dangerous than a few other places. I'll refrain from posting specific places either here or there.

There are always a few rules that I try to follow when travelling.

Little or No night driving.
While it might be nice to miss some of the traffic, you dont get to see much of anything and the later you travel the higher the risk of encountering all kinds of less desireable situations. Who wants a flat at 2:00 am? Who wants to encounter a Semi's headlights on that dark and lonelly stretch of highway? Who wants to meet that Steer (up close and personal) that was sleeping on the road? Anything missing in the "Who Wants to" category fill in the blank________

Travel with a Buddy when possible.
Theres nothing better than to park in that perfect camp and share a cold beer with friends. If you do get that %#^* flat tire, help is there. If you battery dies, your buddy will give you a jump. No worries about being out on that road all alone.

Be prepared (for anything) Have a plan.
Take spares, extra fuel, communications. And don't think being prepared is when you didn't forget something. Be prepared to encounter. Good and Bad Encounters. I've had WAYYYY more Good Encounters than Bad ones. I have met more good people South of the border than I can count. Almost 40 years of crossing the border and I have had one bad encounter. Lastly, I will take a life to save my family or myself, No hesitation.

Bedman

Mango - 8-22-2006 at 11:29 PM

Life is the leading cause of death.

I've been robbed at gunpoint walking down the street in Eugene, Oregon. (No I'm not kidding, I've also been shot at by a pocher in a public forrest in Oregon too!)

I traveled all over mainland Mexico for years and never had a problem. I walked through some of the most notorious neighborhoods in Mexico City, been in towns in Chiapas where indigenous rebels had been at war with the army, ridden on a train that had been robbed three days before, and wandered down unknown paths though the jungle watching for snakes and jaguars.

In my experience it is much safer in Mexico than it is in the USA. Leave something of value unattended for long and it's gone; but, you should be fine otherwise. Just be aware, keep your guard up until you know when it is safe to let it down, and the crooks will go find an easier target.

The first time I went to Mexico I walked across the border at Mexicali. I could barley speak any Spanish and I had no car. I was just a silly gringo with a backpack and a dream. I walked all over town looking for a hotel and nobody messed with me. It took a few days; but, when I got away from the border, started to relax, and learned how to get along.. everything was great.

Mexico is a funny place. Some things will shock you, many things will surprize you, some things you will love, and some will confound you; but, you will never know unless you go.

Anything or anyplace you can imagine...you can find in the world.. you just have to go find it!

Packoderm - 8-23-2006 at 12:01 AM

Yes Mango, what you say makes sense. However, many will be less willing to place their families at such a perceived risk by engaging in independent travel into the Mexican countryside. Instead, they would rather fly to a know destination with a pre-arranged transfer and stay at a safe resort without setting foot off the property. The losers in this instance are the non-megabusiness locals and the would-be independent traveler. I would imagine that the mega resorts represent such a huge percentage of tourist dollars into Mexico that there is little incentive for authorities to take effective action against such crimes and other abuse. If the reports are indeed accurate, then the ball is in Mexico's and its people's court. If they choose not to protect the independent traveler, I really won't be in the mood to hear them carp about how gringos don't take the initiative to experience and learn the real Mexico and its culture instead of indulging in the Melia and Riu's bottom line extraction methods of a one-week, blow-it-all Mexican vacation. I remember myself feeling such shame back when the German tourists were targeted in Florida.

Paranoia

Sharksbaja - 8-23-2006 at 12:22 AM

is the leading cause of fear. I have traveled and lived in urban communities like San Pedro and an island, in the country, next to the beach bla bla and worked in places like Harbor City, Compton, Rosemead and Culver City to mention a few.
I maintain at least one home in another country and have traveled this country and parts of of others extensively.

I have never been mugged, robbed, held-up or physically harmed while traveling in my entire life. I did end up in Ensenada jail tho thanx to a biligerent friend. Other than that I have never had a problem in Mexico and that was 35 yrs ago.

With that said.... ALL those places experience(d) bad crimes at one point or another. It's really a matter of wrong place/wrong time usually. I have obviously been lucky to a certain degree. This new rash may be something more however.
Like life is; some things YOU can control, some you can't. If driving a night gives you the Willies, then you are smart to adjust your methodology about traveling. :!:

[Edited on 8-23-2006 by Sharksbaja]

Bob H - 8-23-2006 at 04:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
I am headed down to Ensenada TODAY! I'll give you a first hand report upon my return.
:rolleyes:
Bob H


There was a lot of traffic on the toll road both ways but not too overwhelming. No problems - more law enforcement visible than before. Came back via Tecate with a 10 minute wait to cross back. The Guadalupe valley area was just beautiful. Lots of wine brewing!
Bob H

[Edited on 8-24-2006 by Bob H]

Hook - 8-23-2006 at 05:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
I am headed down to Ensenada TODAY! I'll give you a first hand report upon my return.
:rolleyes:
Bob H


There was a lot of traffic on the toll road both ways but not too overwhelming. No problems - more law enforcement visible than before. Came back via Tecate with a 10 minute wait to cross back. The Guadalupe canyon area was just beautiful. Lots of wine brewing!
Bob H


Did you drive your late-model Ford truck? :lol:

Bob H - 8-23-2006 at 06:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
I am headed down to Ensenada TODAY! I'll give you a first hand report upon my return.
:rolleyes:
Bob H


There was a lot of traffic on the toll road both ways but not too overwhelming. No problems - more law enforcement visible than before. Came back via Tecate with a 10 minute wait to cross back. The Guadalupe valley area was just beautiful. Lots of wine brewing!
Bob H


Did you drive your late-model Ford truck? :lol:


Hook, didn't take the camper. Drove down in our 2002 Ranger - 4banger. Just a quick trip down and back.
When ya goin' down again?
Bob H

[Edited on 8-24-2006 by Bob H]

Bob H - 8-23-2006 at 06:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hook
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
I am headed down to Ensenada TODAY! I'll give you a first hand report upon my return.
:rolleyes:
Bob H


There was a lot of traffic on the toll road both ways but not too overwhelming. No problems - more law enforcement visible than before. Came back via Tecate with a 10 minute wait to cross back. The Guadalupe canyon area was just beautiful. Lots of wine brewing!
Bob H


Did you drive your late-model Ford truck? :lol:


I meant Guadalupe Valley.... not canyon. :biggrin:

bajaden - 8-23-2006 at 10:57 PM

I'll be heading back down sometime after the 15th of sept. Been north for an operation and other assorted things. I like many others am concerned about the seemingly increased violence at the border. I suspect that if you kept a log of the violence in LA or any other big city and compared it to Baja, baja would pale in comparison. God knows how many times I've traveled up and down baja and never had an incident. Its possible that the plane you take to that destination thats so safe will crash also, but not likely.

I just think that everyone has to keep a proper prospective on this. There has been a lot of good advice on this board. Follow it and you'll be fine. Your more likely to be struck by lightning than gunfire.

Bob H.

Hook - 8-24-2006 at 11:38 AM

I dont know when I'm going down next. This does not seem like a good time to head down right now.

Yet, the lure of October weather is strong.

capitolkat - 8-24-2006 at 12:00 PM

Last year my wife and I took a trip to S. Africa. What an eye opener. there were signs on the freeways at various offramps that shouted "Hijacking Hotspot". When we were in the grocery buying some water and snacks we saw several ordinary looking folks who were packing large sidearms in shoulder or underarm holsters. These were not police.

We got a little lost coming back to Cape Town from the Cape of Good Hope and what with driving on the wrong side of the road and the wrong side of the car I hit a curb and blew the tire. We found a place to pull off and were changing the tire when a couple of good samaritans pulled up and got their own jack out and the tire changed in pit stop time. My wife commented she had hoped on of the several cabs that had passed us would stop and help.

The two young men- both armed- looked at her and calmly said if a cab had stopped you should have gotten in your car and driven away on the flat as they would steal everything you had and maybe kill you to boot. Needless to say we didn't drive at night any more and because the next day was a national holiday in S. Africa I stayed in town until I could get a replacement tire before driving to the wine country. I had read up on driving in S. Africa and thought I knew of the dangers and what parts of town to avoid etc.- Not

I felt like a guardian angel had come to our aid that night and the young men would take no money and followed us back into town to our hotel.

Societal Changes

MrBillM - 8-24-2006 at 12:12 PM

It has been mentioned for years now that the street crime in South Africa has skyrocketed since the Afrikaner government yielded to ANC domination. I've read it is common for Four-Star hotels to have guards armed with Automatic weapons and the guests are warned to avoid walking the streets.

Progress ?

PJC - 8-24-2006 at 02:34 PM

Bedman, well said and thoughtful among the chaotic replies. Vortech, do what you need to do and I hope that you grow comfortable enough again to venture south.

Now ... I see the common, biased comparison of US crime stats vs Mexico's.

Well, at the end of the day, being a Police Chief, Newspaper Reporter or District Attorney in the US is not considered a "death wish". And folks, that is a pretty stark comparison.

Big Al - 8-24-2006 at 04:58 PM

PJC - great comparison

Who would want to . . .

G35Vortec454 - 8-24-2006 at 05:36 PM

Who would want to go to South Africa on a safari, knowing all the risks involved . . .

Who would wants to skydive, knowing that's putting ones self in danger . . . and who would want to fly a small plane, knowing all the risks involved . . .

Who would want to go to Baja . . .

Since this is MY thread, I'd like to thank everyone for contributing. I just needed to hear all those who concur as well as the rebuttals.

I think I'll take a chance, but I'll make my moves and err on the side of caution.

Bob H - 8-24-2006 at 05:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by lencho
Quote:
Originally posted by G35Vortec454
Since this is MY thread...


Thread ownership? Interesting concept which has been expressed here multiple times and which I'm still unclear on. Isn't that kinda like saying "MY conversation"?

--Larry


Larry, interesting response... but Vortec does own the thread. He is the only one that can delete it besides the administrator.
Just my 2-centavos.
Bob H

BajaNomad - 8-24-2006 at 07:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
He is the only one that can delete it besides the administrator.
Point of clarification: the older board software would remove the entire thread if the original poster removed the first post. Now (with the updated versions of the board software), not so. If the original poster removes their first post - everything else is left still intact.

This is what is provided with the board software - I am not given an option that can be changed.

Bob H - 8-24-2006 at 08:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaNomad
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob H
He is the only one that can delete it besides the administrator.
Point of clarification: the older board software would remove the entire thread if the original poster removed the first post. Now (with the updated versions of the board software), not so. If the original poster removes their first post - everything else is left still intact.

This is what is provided with the board software - I am not given an option that can be changed.


Thanks, Doug, for the clarification. I didn't know that.
Bob H