BajaNomad

4x4 or 4x2?

windgrrl - 9-10-2006 at 12:05 PM

We are starting to plan for outfitting ourselves for our longer snowbird excursions to Baja in about 3 years. We'll be hauling a 23' trailer (truly ultralight), mountain bikes & windsurfing gear for 2 and our dog, Miss Vida (we promised she could come when we drive down, instead of our 2-week stints). We plan to stay on the East Cape (LB, LV) where we visit now.

We're about to repalce our truck and wonder what are preferred basic options, manufacturers, etc. for the basic trip back and forth (Oct. and March). Are there "nice to haves" for driving around in Baja (e.g. side trips to natural areas). We tend to avoid electronic accessories (windows, keyless entry, etc.) and wonder if a 4x4 is necessary.

Cypress - 9-10-2006 at 12:21 PM

4x4 necessary? Not unless you need it.

bajaguy - 9-10-2006 at 12:24 PM

Wait until the new 2007 Toyota Tundra V-8 is out...worth a look (this is sure going to stir up some comments).

In my opinion, a keyless entry with an alarm function is necessary...... A great security device....just hit alarm in the middle of the night and the horn starts honking and the lights start flashing.

For me a double cab provides extra lockable security, and is a nice spot for the dog (keeps her out of the truck bed and cargo area), and 4x4 is my choice for exploring and pulling that trailer to some nice beach spots. Bikes can go in the cargo area under a lockable shell, or on the back of the trailer, and the windsurfing gear can go on the top of the locking camper shell.:lol::lol::lol:

[Edited on 9-10-2006 by bajaguy]

4 x 4

MrBillM - 9-10-2006 at 12:24 PM

A 4 x 4 is a waste until the first time you need it. Then, it is worth a fortune.

I drove Baja for years in my 4 x 2 GMC Pickup, getting stuck rarely and never unable to get myself out, but digging out was a real pain in the Butt. After buying an old Toyota FJ55 4 x 4 and driving the same places I drove my GMC, every big truck I've bought since dating back to 1989 has been a 4 x 4. There probably haven't been a dozen cases since where I had to use that, but each one made me glad I made the decision.

Necessary - no; Desirable - yes

Skipjack Joe - 9-10-2006 at 12:51 PM

I just bought a 4X4 recently and wish I had done it sooner.

The 4X2 is all I need for the 1500 miles to my destination. The 4X4 is only necessary for the last 100 feet. However, that last 100 feet is the most desirable real estate of the entire trip and it's where I want to be. The ability to roll over those dunes to the water's edge is invaluable.

The 4X4 opens up the backcountry to the baja explorer and may soon be the only way to experience the old baja.

On the other hand Mexicans have been traversing the peninsula for years in their 4X2 trucks. You just have to be real smart about your driving: know your vehicle real well and be able to spot the problem areas before you're in them.

So to answer your question, a 4X4 isn't necessary but it will improve the quality of your vacation.

4X4

toneart - 9-10-2006 at 02:55 PM

Go for a 4 X 4

I have a 2001 Ford F150 Pickup. It has a super crew cab and a lockable camper shell. It tows my small, 16' toybox trailer.

Pluses:
If you live in snow country like I do, and I believe You do too windgrrl, it is very useful and often necessary. Same in the desert.

Nice ride!

It is big enough and high enough to feel safe(er) than in a jeep.

You can unhook the trailer and explore until your heart's content.

You can carry a big dog like my Shephard/Husky mix ("Paco" habla espanol tambien). He has his own personal suite in the super crew cab and protects the truck and it's contents. (Little do the bad guys know that he would probably lick the skin off their fingers). OK, I'm trying to teach him not to wag his tail.


Minuses

Gas mileage is not great until you unhook the trailer...then it is OK.

If it is new(er) it will become old(er) more quickly (as in beat-up).

Even though it is big, it is no match for a truck that wants your lane....but what is??

If new(er) you have to wash it.

Oh, I almost forgot; another plus: You be stylin' and you could look like this>>>>:cool:

marek - 9-10-2006 at 04:38 PM

4x4, Diesel, Extracab.

It's a great set up for two with a dog (we travel with two kids and two dogs). One can also rest in the back seat on long drives. Diesel is less money in Baja and the mileage is better. I've also found that they tend not to run as hot either.

For my money...

Mexray - 9-10-2006 at 04:58 PM

...you just can't go wrong with a Ford!

Get a pick-up with enough capacity to tow your expected trailer weight, plus some safety factor for all your added stuff!

Ford 4x4 P/ups equipped with the 'FX4' package gives you better shocks and skid plates on the underside - great for knocking around on dirt and rock covered back roads.

Get the towing 'package' - bigger radiator, oil cooler, alternator, frame mounted hitch, etc, etc. - all built in from the factory.

Get an interior package that makes you comfortable for all the miles you'll spend behind the wheel - bucket seats (leather's nice), power windows, AC, etc. The 'power' stuff, for the most part in built into most models these days, unless you're getting a stripped version - and the few 'bucks' you'll spend are worth it in the creature comfort they provide!

Ford now offers factory built-in tow hitches, and electronic brake controllers for your trailer, in their heavier models (super-duty).

You can tow a light trailer, no problem with the 5.4 Ltr V8 gas engine (auto transmission!) - opt for the V-10 Gas engine if you need more 'pulling power'...I'd pass on the Diesel engine models - you pay a bunch for the option, they are heavier, and I don't think you'll get back the extra $'s in purchase price in the small savings you experience with slightly better fuel mileage - over the life of the vehicle, IMHO. If you're going to haul around a big, hunka, 5th wheel behind you, then you'll almost 'need' the Diesel - but for lighter stuff, I'd stay with the gas engines.

I've got an old 1989 Ford Bronco that just turned 200K miles...but finally had to install a rebuilt motor, and it's like a 'new' machine again....also, I just picked up a 1999 F-350 Ford Pick-up, extended cab(5.4 ltr gas engine) and loaded it up with a 10 ft Lance Camper...it runs like a 'top', and handles the hills without any problems.

I had a new Chevy 'Z71' 4x4 in the mid 90's, and it was an OK truck back then, but I truly believe that Ford has engineered much more strength and driver-friendly features than General Motors since then- I think Ford's sales also bear that out. Ford's 'Super Duty' models are copied by everyone - even Toyota and Nissan are engineering 'Heavy Duty' versions of their trucks in upcoming models...Chevy's and Dodge's versions are, 'OK', but just IMHO, can't hold a 'candle' to Ford's stuff...I'll get lots of arguments here from other's, but that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it!:spingrin:

To recap, you're going to be spending time in your tow vehicle, so get something that's comfortable for you inside, and 'hefty' enough to handle the loads you want to carry. If you're going to buy 'New', order it with all the goodies you'll need to tow - right from the factory - it will be, in most cases, a more 'trouble free' vehicle.

Enjoy your travels!



[Edited on 9-11-2006 by Mexray]

Small_RV_2.gif - 5kB

4baja - 9-10-2006 at 05:16 PM

baja guy, whats new for the tundra 2007. i have a 2003 tundra and a 2001 tacoma and looking to trade them in next year for a new truck.

David K - 9-10-2006 at 05:39 PM

Steve, it's a complete, new FULL size pick up... The '05 and later Tacoma got almost as big as the current Tundra. For '07 the Tundra grows up to full size.

Toyota has proved to be of the highest quality to the Baja Nomads who have them...

I am on my second 4WD Tacoma... about 25,000-35,000 miles per year with no problems... Oh, what a feeling! See the Nomad Baja Trip Reports forum or my web site VivaBaja.com for action photos!:tumble:

4baja

bajaguy - 9-10-2006 at 07:30 PM

the new 2007 Tundra is supposed to have a 10,000lb towing capacity, 3 engine choices (6, V-8 - the current model, and a new and a bigger V-8)..............I'm waiting. My local dealer told me maybe December. The double cab in 4x4 looks like a great Baja rig.

[Edited on 9-11-2006 by bajaguy]

AmoPescar - 9-10-2006 at 09:58 PM

DEFINITELY GET 4X4...

As many wrote above, you won't need it all the time. But, when you do, it will be the best investment you've ever made.

I would agree with how good the Ford F series trucks are. They are proven work horses. I have a 2001 F250 Crew Cab (Amo's Big Unit) with the V10 and it's a hauler. But, if I had it all to do over again, I'd go with a diesel for the economy and durability. The Ford Powerstroke is a great engine and very reliable. But, I know many on this forum would argue heavily in favor of the Dodge with the Cummins diesel, as being the best you can get.

Diesel fuel, lately, has been very expensive in the U.S., but in Mexico it is cheap and readily available. The savings from the diesel's economy will pay for it in the long run.

As far as Toyotas go, I know that MANY will praise them for their reliability and off-road capabilities. And, I know that to be true. However, I am over 6' tall and 250+ lbs., and the Toyotas are JUST NOT AS COMFORTABLE to me. My big Ford is BIG and COMFORTABLE.

Also, if you plan on doing any camping, you might think about getting something like a Callen Camper made for your rig. They can build and equip it for you ANY WAY you want. They are very sturdy and well built.

So, do some more homework and ask people you meet around town or in Baja their opinions. With some more good information, I'm sure you'll be able to make a wise decision.

Amo Pescar


[Edited on 9-11-2006 by AmoPescar]

aha baja - 9-11-2006 at 01:57 AM

I too have a 2001 f-250 turbo diesel crew cab 4x4 and it pulls strong and long. It gets 14.5 mpg but diesel in Mexico is $1.82 /gallon. Thats about 8 cents a mile. In the U.S. it's closer to 14 cents a mile.

[Edited on 01-19-2004 by aha baja]

Skeet/Loreto - 9-11-2006 at 03:07 AM

Vehicles Since 1968

October 1968--Cessna 170 B-No 4x4 Necessary

1970---1968 Chevy 4x4 350- Hi -Rise-with RV Cam-Ran on Mexican Regular.

1980- 1972 Toyota Pick Up R22 Engine - 5Speed Tranny

1990- 1982 Toyota Pick Up

1993- 19 93 Jeep Cherokee 6 Cyl Sold at 167,000 miles all Baja Roads}

1998 -For me! 1992 Ford F150 4x4 6 Cly. 5 Speed Trannywith Camper.Totalled while moving my last Load of Funiture to Lake Havasu City. By a DOPE Smoking Character pulling his Boat at 55 Mph _We and several other Vehicles stopped for Left Turn..

My opinion;;For just 2 People and a Dog, the Toyota is the Best.

For more Room and a place to sleep on a 4x4 Beach the Ford F150.

Skeet/Loreto

TMW - 9-11-2006 at 08:35 AM

The new 2007 Tundra, as per CU, is 4 inches wider and a foot longer with a 10,000 lb towing capacity and a new 5.7 V8.

Go Four By Four

Hook - 9-11-2006 at 08:40 AM

Once you establish your base camp with the TT, you will grow tired of the places you can explore safely with 4x2. It's not like there's an Auto Club tow truck within an hour. Self sufficiency is a good thing on the peninsula.

But dont make the mistake of thinking that 4x4 means no getting stuck. You got to learn their limitations, too.

For the typical 10% premium in fuel consumption, I think 4x4 is worth the trade off.

Salsa - 9-11-2006 at 09:14 AM

What do you see stuck up to the axles, 4x4's or 4x2's???

By far it is 4x4's.

Don't blame it truck, it's the mentality!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don

David K - 9-11-2006 at 09:27 AM

SAND RULE (2WD or 4WD): Let air out of the tires!!!! Drop at least 50% of the air pressure so you see the tire sidewalls buldging. If burried, then clear away the sand that has contact with the underside and in front of the tires.

My 3 ply sidewall, 35+ psi mud tires don't float until they are down to 10 psi, then they work great!

discoverer_STT.jpg - 7kB

Bajamatic - 9-11-2006 at 01:50 PM

my .02

4x4 - as stated - really not necessary until you get stuck, then you really really wish you had it.

salsa- a 2x4 can't get stuck up to the "axles". Only one.

[Edited on 9-11-2006 by Bajamatic]

TacoFeliz - 9-11-2006 at 04:11 PM

Love my 4 door '04 Tundra 4WD with 4Wheeler pop-top after twenty years in a Jeep CJ-7.

That being said, there is some truth in the saying "Four wheel drive will allow you to get stuck even farther from civilizaton!" so pay attention.

bajarich - 9-12-2006 at 09:06 PM

My recomendation. If you really want to do some offroad exploring, get a full size diesel 4 x 4 (3/4 ton) and put a 4-Wheel pop-up camper on it. It is a very light camper with an aluminum frame that is built to take a beating. Your truck won't even know it's on there. The diesel will give you better milage and a lot better range than a gas truck. Get a winch that will fit into a reiceiver hitch on the front and back of the truck and buy a Pul Pal anchor for the times you get stuck and there isn't anything to tie onto.

I made the mistake of buying a 1/2 ton truck, and when I add the camper, along with all the other things I carry, the truck is really overloaded. I think the Toyota Tundra is only a 1/2 ton. I have been told it is a full ton because the payload is over 2000#, but that's true of most 1/2 ton trucks. Really it's about things like floating axles, suspension, and just all around heavier duty trucks with a 3/4 ton. 1/2 ton trucks are built more like cars.

TMW - 9-13-2006 at 07:23 AM

If your going to put a big cabover camper on it then go for the larger 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. For a 1/2 ton I'd limit my camper weight to a small cabover or a pop up type. You need to look at the axle weight specs. If you want to get back into the tight nasty areas then a smaller vehicle is best. Full size 4x4s will let you go to probably everywhere you'll need to go. But you'll never go over the summit or up basketball hill on the Pole Line road, especially with a cabover on it

bajarich - 9-13-2006 at 03:06 PM

Some friend of mine bought a Toyota Tundra quad cab with 4wd. The haul a 23 foot trailer, I don't know what brand, but my friend complains that he only gets 10 mpg while hauling the trailer, and also that he hated driving it because he feels like the trailer is always pushing him. That's another reason I recommend a diesel 3/4 ton truck. With a Diesel, the weight doesn't affect the milage nearly as much.

Thanks!

windgrrl - 9-14-2006 at 10:46 AM

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on this topic. We really enjoyed reading all of your prespectives as we drove on our latest trip.

We just got back from a trip to the Rockies and almost bought a lease-back from a Ford dealer near where we were staying (2004 Ford 150 4x4, supercab, 6.5' box, so many electronic conveniences and a nice price).

The rear seats split and flip up, so that Miss Vida would have her own private "cabin" in the rear while I would have space for my feet on the floor up front. This would have replaced our '98 F150 4x2 long-box, 4 spd. standard.

As for those Canadian winters (there's a heavy snowfall warning north of here today) - we only ever have gone to the extreme of studding our winter tires. We tend to park at the edge of fun and then walk, bike, snowshoe, sail into trouble. Now sand will be a brand new challenge! Still aren't sold on the 4x4, though...we like the idea of relying on skills & knowledge (lowering air pressure, etc.).

Now we are thinking about bigger trailer, so we're gonna do some re-thunking!
Must just be the adventurer part in us...now would that be 5th wheel or...?!!

Best wishes,
Jane

Cypress - 9-14-2006 at 10:58 AM

Heavy snow warning!!!:o:O How far up there are you and what elevations?:o

Snow tires optional - winter vacation mandatory!

windgrrl - 9-14-2006 at 11:42 AM

Here's the link:
http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/warnings/ab_e.html

This is part of the system that drove us home yesterday. We live in the SE corner of Alberta and although we are in a "semie-arid desert" on the CAN/USA border, looks like we might get snow on the prairies on Sat.:
http://www.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/city/pages/ab-51_metric_e....

Brrr!

aha baja - 9-14-2006 at 12:11 PM

Better pop open a Molsens, kick back on the old chestefield and watch it through the picture window, by tundra eh!:yes:

windgrrl - 9-15-2006 at 08:27 AM

...indeed - and I've already been stylin' with headwear from my huge toque collection whilst gazing at the Prince of Wales Hotel and enjoying a Drambuie chaser! One is surely from the Canadian prairies if you know what a "biffie" or a "coulee" are!

aha baja - 9-15-2006 at 12:39 PM

biffie= toilet, w/c, lou, porcelin teddybear,crapper,dumper,head,conveniance,outhouse,sh-tter,gotta see a man about a horse room.............................
coulee= pond or creek . No not from Canada but watched a lot of SCTV and the Great White North.:lol:

Pappy Jon - 9-15-2006 at 01:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by David K
I am on my second 4WD Tacoma... about 25,000-35,000 miles per year with no problems...


I have 280K on my 4Runner. Still have a long ways to go.
Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
the new 2007 Tundra is supposed to have a 10,000lb towing capacity, 3 engine choices (6, V-8 - the current model, and a new and a bigger V-8)..............I'm waiting. My local dealer told me maybe December. The double cab in 4x4 looks like a great Baja rig.


I believe a diesel will also be an option in 2007.

A coulee is a...

windgrrl - 9-15-2006 at 04:12 PM

..place you definitely need a 4x4. It's our version of an arroyo!

Thanks for the laugh;D, Aha!

aha baja - 9-15-2006 at 08:17 PM

I wasn't sure about coulee so i googled it. It gave my defenition first then the ravine defenition. The rest I really do know from spending some time with Candadians who come down to Bahia de Los Angeles, and the movie "Strange Brew":lol::lol::lol:

TMW - 9-16-2006 at 09:01 AM

4x4 helps the most in sand. If you stay out of it you don't need 4x4. There are many places to go where sand can be a problem. If your a 4x2 then make sure you have others with a 4x4 there with you. If you travel alone you want to avoid places like the coastal run from Catavina down to Santa Rosalillita, the loop around Morro Santo Domingo, Playa San Rafael, hwy 1 thru San Antonio to Bahia Blanca, El Crucero by Mission Calamajue to Cocos, Laguna Chapala to the coast at Punta Vibora. There are many other wonderful places but this is enough to start. For me the choice is easy, I don't want to be limited to where I can go because I don't have a 4x4. I've been stuck and it wasn't always fun, sometimes it was, but not always.

aha baja - 9-17-2006 at 07:45 AM

OK OK back on thread..... simple but true saying tis better to HAVE it and not need it than to need it and NOT HAVE it!!!:lol::lol::lol:On at least 5 times in the past 3 years I have assisted pulling people stuck in soft sand with my Ford 4x4.Guess how may of them WERE 4x4???..... answer=0 Hope this helps in the decision making process:yes:

[Edited on 01-19-2004 by aha baja]PS None were Toyotas either... They don't get stuck too often:lol:

[Edited on 01-19-2004 by aha baja]

Timbercrete - 9-17-2006 at 08:34 AM

If you buy a 4x2 truck, you will be helping those private, pristine places I enjoy, stay just that. Privite and pristine.

:cool:

TMW - 9-17-2006 at 08:50 AM

I've been stuck once in a 4x4. As the saying goes, when your stuck in a 4x4 your really stuck. It was in the silt beds on the Baja 2000 course south of San Ignacio before El Cuarenta. I took the wrong line and before I knew it all 4 wheels were spinning at idle. Out of nowhere a bunch of friendly Mexicans came and surrounded my 91 chevy. I asked what they planned to do and one said pick up the truck and move it out of the silt. I smiled and took my place around the truck as did my two brothers. Well we lifted and lifted I doubt we moved it a faction of an inch other than spring action. I ask if anyone had a 4x4 and one young man said yes and off he went and came back with a Ford Ranger 4x4. We hooked up a tow starp and he tried to pull me out, but no go. I told him to pop me out and he did and it did. I gave him $20 and my older brother gave the group a 12 pack of beer and off we went. To their surprise they would find out that the beer was non-alcoholic. We had a good laugh over that.

New (2007 or 2008) US diesels won't run Mexican diesel fuel

TecateRay - 9-18-2006 at 08:09 PM

Be sure to check carefully if you choose a diesel. The US has gone to low sulfur diesel fuel and I'm not sure if it is '07 or '08 models that the diesel trucks will add smog equipment that won't allow use of the diesel fuel now available in Mexico. (BTW - I drive a Chevy diesel 4x4 and love it for Baja!)

The situation is similar to the old days when the US went to unleaded gas before Mexico and if you had a catalytic converter you would have problems running Mexican gas.

windgrrl - 9-19-2006 at 06:55 PM

...thanks for the tip on diesels TecateRay!

aha baja - 9-19-2006 at 10:16 PM

Should be plenty of good quality late model used diesel trucks for sale that won't have the smog test involved. Like I posted earlier the current price of diesel in mexico is about $1.25US LESS per gallon than the U.S. That coupled with the inherant better mileage than a comparable gasoline truck and less maintenence, (usually) makes a diesel rig pretty attractive. Mexico may be selling low sulphur diesel by then but who knows for sure? I drive a '01 F250 4x4 crew in baja so I'm biased but I too love it and love the fuel savings vs gasoline.

[Edited on 01-19-2004 by aha baja]

bajarich - 9-22-2006 at 10:12 AM

I forgot to mention another reason for getting 4wd. If you come to a rough spot you can put it in 4-low and creep over it. If you only have 2wd, you have a tendency to gun it and go for it. It's much easier on the vehicle to do the former.

Update

windgrrl - 12-9-2006 at 01:54 PM

We got the 4x4 (2004 F-150 Lariat + bells + whistles) and with the winter we are having in Alberta this year understand what it's all about. Can be those electrical contraptions like heated seats, either! Heck of a deal, low kms. Gettin' the list down for semi-retirement!

Capt. George - 12-9-2006 at 04:00 PM

4X4

don't even consider 2X2 in Baja

I have a 1999 F-250 Super Duty Lariat w/ 37,000 miles. totally mint.

selling it no 4 X 4 no good for me............capt george

Capt. George - 12-9-2006 at 04:01 PM

forgot, it even has the 7.3 diesel no more of these engines to be had.


even though no 4 X 4!

oxxo - 12-10-2006 at 07:06 AM

In terms of driving on Baja backroads, does AWD (all wheel drive) have any utility? I guess I am asking does AWD come close to matching 4WD off road performance?

David K - 12-10-2006 at 08:35 AM

4WD has LOW RANGE and that permits steep hill climbing and descending safe and SLOW.

2WD vehicles attempting roads they shouldn't cause damage to the roadbed by spinning their tires when they lose traction.

AWD is fine on non-difficult dirt roads or sand... But, they generally do not have the ground clearance or body clearance to tackle rocky roads. They don't have the two speed transfer case for the low range crawling gears needed for steep, bad roads.

Where you need 4WD with low range (going to Mision Santa Maria)...


[Edited on 12-10-2006 by David K]

TMW - 12-10-2006 at 11:27 AM

AWD controls the power to the wheels thru clutches and brake bands. They are not considered a good off road vehicle. Best for use in snow while moving. GM has an auto 4x4 position on their 4x4 trucks and SUVs that works the same way. It is not a good system to start off in when a vehicle has been setting in the snow and ice. I thought something was wrong with my company Tahoe when no wheel would turn. I finally switched to 4x4 low to get going.

BajaWarrior - 12-10-2006 at 03:57 PM

Get the gas motor, you'll never have a problem getting fuel. Plus, the same vehicle in a diesel versus gas is a lot more expensive. The money you save will go to the extra $ for fuel.

I know, I know, everyone says you can drive a diesel for over 300,000 miles. Who wants to drive a vehicle for over 300,000 miles? Everything else will fall apart in that time!

I'm just saying I have always owned a gas motor in Crew Cabs with big blocks and never had a motor related problem. Drive a vehicle for 150,000 miles and get a new one that was as dependable as the last. You can kiss your mechanic goodbye.

Wait, whats that? Uh oh, here comes the diesel guys in defense!!

bajalou - 12-10-2006 at 05:36 PM

If you're mostly in Baja, the diesel is much cheaper than gasoline here.

pappy - 12-25-2006 at 11:28 AM

bio-diesel....worse case scenario you can run it on veggie oil from local taco stand...

TMW - 12-26-2006 at 09:48 AM

Ever since the gas prices shot up diesel in CA has been equal to or higher than premium gas. Around here it's at least 10 cents higher.

Cypress - 12-26-2006 at 12:12 PM

4x4 with some real good tires. :bounce: Just took me two hours to get out of the driveway with the aid of a winch.:O Would go to tracked vehicles if possible, but they're a little too slow for I-5. :biggrin: