bajabound2005 - 9-12-2006 at 07:15 PM
1. Does Dual Citizenship allow you to own property without FC?
2. What does it take to earn Dual Citizenship?
3. What does Dual Citizenship do for us, pros and cons? (I'm talking US and Mexican).
Oso - 9-13-2006 at 05:16 PM
You may be confusing dual nationality with dual citizenship. The U.S. "essentially" neither recognizes nor prohibits either. A person born abroad
of U.S. citizen parents is automatically a U.S. citizen and may or may not be or become a citizen of the country in which they were born without
losing U.S. citizenship. The U.S. only terminates citizenship of people who have voluntarily become citizens of other countries and in the process,
renounced U.S. citizenship.
I'm guessing you're thinking of a fairly recent policy of the gov't of Mexico to recognize dual nationality of people born in Mexico who have become
naturalized elsewhere or the foreign born children of people who are or were Mexican citizens. This dual nationality allows "Mexican-American" U.S.
Citizens to own property more or less anywhere in the Republic and to live and travel in Mexico without visas, as well as almost everything Mexican
citizens can do EXCEPT vote or hold public office.
If you ain't "Mexican" by the above criteria, forget it. "Gringos" cannot obtain this status.
http://www.aztlan.net/dualcit.htm
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
DENNIS - 9-13-2006 at 06:16 PM
Oso ---
Maybe not completely accurate. As with most other laws and regulations in Mexico, this one has well-guarded details.
Yesterday, I was having my FM-3 renewed using a service to do all of the work. [ just lazy ]
Anyway, the man doing this told me that after five years with an FM-3, I could apply for dual citizenship, complete with voting rights. He added that
it was a completely different direction than pursueing immigrant status. He also said that this process is written into their constitution.
None of these things are well advertised probably because Mexico doesn't want immigration.
I have to see him again tomorrow and will pick his brain if our cultural differences will allow it.
Please, everybody out there in Nomadlandia, dont yell at me. Im telling what little I know about this and will pass on anything new but, one thing I
do know is that the U.S. has nothing to do with it.
Later ..... Dennis
bajabound2005 - 9-13-2006 at 06:34 PM
Dennis, U2U me with who the "man" doing the work is. All my info on dual citizenship is from our common area....we need to make sure it's accurate!
I u2u'd you yesterday on the trailer park thing.
comitan - 9-13-2006 at 06:36 PM
Dennis
I think he was talking about mexican citizenship, where you have to pass a Mexican history test, speek spanish and possibly more.
longlegsinlapaz - 9-13-2006 at 06:40 PM
Sorry Oso!
When my FM3 celebrated it's 5th birthday, the La Paz Immigration office also asked me if I wanted to apply for citizenship....I said "Not if it would
mean giving up my US citizenship!" & he said no, it'd be dual & I wouldn't have to renounce my US citizenship. When I asked him if he could
tell me some of the pros & cons, he said I could own land without a fideicomiso, but beyond that, he said I'd have to talk with an attorney to
find out ALL the legalities. At the time, I was broke & the application process costs $1,000-1,500 plus attorney fees, so I didn't pursure it to
find out all the pros & cons. I do know one person who has gone through the process & he told me you have to speak fluent enough Espanol to
pass an oral Mexican history test....kinda like the US test would be for immigrants to become citizens! Who was the father of our country....vs tell
me the historical significance of the names of 12 Mexican streets! 
corrected typo
[Edited on 9-14-2006 by longlegsinlapaz]
DENNIS - 9-13-2006 at 07:06 PM
He mentioned the test. Said he had it in his computer. It's supposed to be simple ... a few state capitals, understanding Mexican time, explain
the word,"Manana", in 3 million words, ------ simple stuff.
Like I said, I see him tomorrow.
Oso - 9-13-2006 at 07:19 PM
Hmmmm... Velly intlesting.. I would like to know more about this. It's not something much publicized for sure. If it's not in black and white,
accessible to the public, one has to wonder about its legitimacy vs. possible scam. The test sounds like maybe the first and most important question
is "¿Cuanto trais?"
DENNIS - 9-13-2006 at 07:36 PM
You're right .... the info is anything but accesible. It's like the gun question that is posed so often. How many carved-in-stone explainations have
you been offered on that one?
Or, buying/renting land in the federal zone?
Or on and on -----
Oso - 9-13-2006 at 09:31 PM
BTW, a small technical point of debate here: If it turns out that it is possible for ex-pat gringos to obtain
dualcitizenship after 5 yrs of FM3, that still does not negate my statement that they cannot obtain "this status"
because the context of the preceding paragraph meant that "this status" referred to dual nationality as described by the recent law,
the wording of which clearly refers only to the Mexican born or their offspring.
Whatever. Being proven right about anything is never as important to me as learning something new and useful and if that proves me wrong, that's
cool.
gnukid - 9-13-2006 at 10:49 PM
Following the links noted above, you can apply after 5 years continous residence or 2 years residence and outstanding contribution. The links allow
you to download all the forms and it helps to begin prior to your application date.
Con
A naturalized mexican should be required to file taxes in mexico as a persona fisica
Pro
No Fido Comiso
Lower fees for investments, gov services
Oso - 9-14-2006 at 07:54 AM
Cool! Apparently I could do it (naturalization) in 2 yrs, since my wife is (still) a Mexican citizen and our daughter was born there. She became a
U.S. citizen at 18, so the dual nationality law applies to her and the grands
The question now is: Do I wanna? I've never really worried about the fideicomiso since we could always buy in her name anyway and after 42 years it
looks like we may stick together. But, I don't see "dual" in that link and I'm a bit concerned about the U.S. State Dept. language regarding
"voluntary" naturalization abroad. I think I'd need to clarify with them that this would not constitute renunciation of U.S. citizenship.
Oso - 9-14-2006 at 08:42 AM
Nope. The first link is the same one I posted and deals with dual nationality. The second refers to formal renunciation of citizenship and would
seem to imply that unless you formally renounce in front of a U.S. State Dept. official abroad, you haven't renounced. But, it doesn't give any
guidance on obtaining foreign citizenship without renouncing. What worries me is this language:
"However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law
requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship."
The devil is in the details. (and the interpretation of them)
Cit etc.
tehag - 9-14-2006 at 09:45 AM
Already posted by someone else, but this is the root directory and has a lot of info for all aspects of relations with foreigners.
http://www.sre.gob.mx/english/
Also, about renunciation, all you have to do when accepting your Mex cit is swear that you will never use your other citizenship status to circumvent
a Mexican law. They do not ask you to renounce, nor do they want your passport.
Your will receive a Mexican voter ID and can apply for a Mexican passport.
All property rights are the same as for a Mexican-born citizen. You cannot run for elective office.
[Edited on 9-14-2006 by tehag]
stormcatcherbaja - 9-14-2006 at 01:38 PM
I have had my dual citizenship for about 7 years now. I vote and own land in my name. I also have a couple of business's without corporations. I am
married to a Mexican, but there was no need to use her for this. They say 5 years with an FM-3, but you can apply earlier, does not mean they will
accept it. I was also concerned about the renouncing deal, I spoke directly with someone at the US consulate, and was told on the side that the US
will not allow you to renounce your US citizenship, that you are a tax base anywhere you go in the world, the only way they would let you renounce is
if you were a really bad person, who no longer lived in the US. This info is not widely publicized, but I have read some US documents that do explain
how you can do it. The main reason Mexico wants you to renounce your US citizenship, is that when you are in Mexico, you live strictly by their laws,
you CANNOT go to the US consulate for any help if you need it, basically they said, in the US your an American, when in Mexico, your a Mexican. There
are many attorneys in Mexico City, that do this, about 1200$ USD, takes about 6 months and 2 trips to Mexico, passport and all.
Oso - 9-14-2006 at 04:45 PM
Finally, the voice of direct experience! Any negatives so far?
stormcatcherbaja - 9-14-2006 at 05:01 PM
I should have added, that whenever asked for ID, you show your Mexican Credencial , and there is a look, like really??? at first, and then everything
just seems to go alot smoother, and no hassles. It works as ID for everyone and all business transactions.
Sorry, forgot the point, no negatives for me as of yet.
[Edited on 9-15-2006 by stormcatcherbaja]
Oso - 9-14-2006 at 05:22 PM
Seems it would make it impossible to plead ignorance or "no speekee Spanish". I can just imagine a mordelón grinning and saying "¿Entonces, ya sabes
la honda, verdad?"
QuePasaBaja - 9-14-2006 at 05:27 PM
One of the main draw backs of having Dual citizen ship, is listed in your US passport.
I am acutally surprised that you have not read it. It clearly states that if you are a citizen of the country that you are " Visiting" "Living" in,
then the US Embassy man not be able to help you much even though you are still a US citizen.
You are a citizen from that country, and new or should have known about the laws!
Oso - 9-14-2006 at 08:12 PM
True enough. But, when I was a freshman at Universidad de las Americas, formally Mexico City College, now UDLAP (P=Puebla. The campus is now in
Cholula, but was at KM 16 on the Toluca highway when I was there.) it was "conventional wisdom" that the U.S. Embassy wouldn't do squat for you
anyway, maybe bring you a pack of cigs, pass a message to your parents, but otherwise they hoped you wouldn't bother them and you were essentially a
guest of the Mexican Judicial System and good luck with that.
An odd note from those ancient times is that same "conventional wisdom" told us to contact the British Embassy if we were in deep dooodoo. It seems
that, at least into the 60's, the Brits considered former colonialists who spoke the Queen's English to remain thier charge, 'Irregardless"