BajaNomad - How good is the BAJA "Expeditioner" TOPO GPS Map ?

How good is the BAJA "Expeditioner" TOPO GPS Map ?

TecateRay - 9-26-2006 at 03:20 PM

I've got a Garmin 76C and it looks like this product would be pretty handy when exploring around Baja. I've got all the paper maps, almanacs, etc. but this would be really handy because I could carry it on my motorcycle in the GPS, not just when using my 4x4.

Has anyone used this thing and validated the maps? Especially on some of the more out of the way places?

David K - 9-26-2006 at 03:22 PM

I have seen it, and it is good!

Al G - 9-26-2006 at 03:41 PM

I used it the last trip in April and found all the roads and trail off Hy 1 to be spot on. I did not go into the back country except around Los Barrilies and south. all those roads were where they were supposed to be. There was one bridge just north of Del San Jose that was off track about 100 yards.
I think it is a very good map and well worth $89.00.

Bajamatic - 9-26-2006 at 03:47 PM

are these maps good enough quality to use on a pc or are they more or less just for the handheld units?

Al G - 9-26-2006 at 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajamatic
are these maps good enough quality to use on a PC or are they more or less just for the handheld units?

Good question! I use it on my PC to find small Pueblos and roads, but have not hook-up a GPS to my PC.

Taco de Baja - 9-26-2006 at 04:52 PM

It is a good program on my 76csx.
All roads appear to be right on, including the off road "trails".

The view on the screen, on both the computer and the unit is good as long as you do not zoom in too close. Remember it is based on a large scale map, and you can easily zoom in too close and make the topo lines useless.

One problem I have found (and there may be an easy solution to this) is that I can only load the Baja Topo or the Garmin West Coast Topo. Not both at the same time. When one is loaded it erases the other from the unit’s memory.

[Edited on 9-26-2006 by Taco de Baja]

Al G - 9-26-2006 at 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja
It is a good program on my 76csx.
All roads appear to be right on, including the off road "trails".

The view on the screen, on both the computer and the unit is good as long as you do not zoom in too close. Remember it is based on a large scale map, and you can easily zoom in too close and make the topo lines useless.

One problem I have found (and there may be an easy solution to this) is that I can only load the Baja Topo or the Garmin West Coast Topo. Not both at the same time. When one is loaded it erases the other from the unit’s memory.

[Edited on 9-26-2006 by Taco de Baja]

Not sure about yours, but I use a memory stick and have one for each. Also have to have one for Marine

Does it replace your west coast topo because of memory?

TecateRay - 9-26-2006 at 06:11 PM

Do you know if it just replacing it because there isn't enough memory for both or is it a file naming thing, etc.?

Al G - 9-26-2006 at 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TecateRay
Do you know if it just replacing it because there isn't

Most likely capacity. I know I could only load a small portion of west coast in base memory. Someone here will know.

[Edited on 9-27-2006 by Al G]

BajaBruno - 9-26-2006 at 10:12 PM

I haven't done much satellite navigation on land in Baja, but I’ve done quite a bit on the water. Navigation is a little different that just hitting the waypoint button and then telling your GPS to go back to that spot a week later, as many of you know. The nautical charts I used on my last trip down the coast, about eighteen years ago, noted that the coastline could be in error by up to a mile.

As we were drifting in to the finish line at CSL in the dead of night with the nervous crew skirting the rocks, they called down below for confirmation that we were on the right path. I had just gotten a SatNav fix which looked reliable. I plotted it on the chart and hailed up the companionway, “You’re on your own mates--by the chart we are sailing 100 meters up on the sand!”

A lot of the marine charts we use, even today off of San Francisco, are the product of surveys by ships that far predate even electronic soundings, much less the precision of satellite fixes. My question after all this prelude is, are the terrestrial maps of Baja more precise to a GPS fix than the nautical charts?

I mean, if you are in a fixed position that is recorded on a map (top of a hill, or next to a lighthouse, or the Y of a highway, for instance) and you take the time to record the longitude and latitude that your GPS indicates, does that lat/lon put you at the same place if you manually plot it on a good topo map? I always carry a portable GPS in my land travels down Baja, but I’ve never thought to take a lat/lon fix anywhere.

The question becomes relevant if you have a GPS that is sophisticated enough to input lat/lon coordinates that you can then plot as a destination (say, you want to go cross-country to a given spot on the map)—the GPS is accurate, but if the map is shifted on the surface of the earth like a plate in tectonic drift, you could be a mile away from your waypoint when you hit your “destination.”

Has anyone experienced this? Any comments on the satellite accuracy of Baja maps?

Taco de Baja - 9-27-2006 at 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TecateRay
Do you know if it just replacing it because there isn't enough memory for both or is it a file naming thing, etc.?

It replaces it because that is the way the Garmin MapSource program works. When you input a new set of maps, it goes into the unit and deletes all the maps you input the last time, and then inputs the new maps. Because the Baja topo and the West Coast topo are in different locations on the PC, you can not select them to download into the unit at the same time....at least I have not found out how yet.

It is definitely not a memory issue, I have a 256MB memory card for the unit and if I wanted to, I could probably have all the Baja topo, all the topo for California, Oregon and Washington and still have some memory left over...

[Edited on 9-27-2006 by Taco de Baja]

Taco de Baja - 9-27-2006 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BajaBruno

I mean, if you are in a fixed position that is recorded on a map (top of a hill, or next to a lighthouse, or the Y of a highway, for instance) and you take the time to record the longitude and latitude that your GPS indicates, does that lat/lon put you at the same place if you manually plot it on a good topo map? I always carry a portable GPS in my land travels down Baja, but I’ve never thought to take a lat/lon fix anywhere.

The question becomes relevant if you have a GPS that is sophisticated enough to input lat/lon coordinates that you can then plot as a destination (say, you want to go cross-country to a given spot on the map)—the GPS is accurate, but if the map is shifted on the surface of the earth like a plate in tectonic drift, you could be a mile away from your waypoint when you hit your “destination.”

Has anyone experienced this? Any comments on the satellite accuracy of Baja maps?

It will put you EXACTLY in the same point on the map as long as your GPS is set to the same Datum as the map. Most Baja maps use the Datum 'NAD27Mexico', this is different than USA maps that should be either NAD27Conus or NAD83. The datum info should be in the lower left hand corner of the map. The Datum info fro the GPS can be changed by going into the "Set-up" section in the unit.

All these datums will cause the point to appear to shift if you mix up your datums and try to plot a NAD83 reading on a NAD27Mexico map....probably only 300 feet or so, so not really too bad. Remember that a pencil point on a map is 20-30 feet too.

The answer to your other question is yes you can input a lat lon (I prefer UTM coordinates - much easier to work with, and most maps have these numbers on the sides along with lat-lon) into almost any GPS even the $99 ones. The problem comes in with determining the lat-lon or UTM from the paper map. You need a long ruler to be able to span the map page and accurately get the units, then you have to be sure you numbers are really correct if you are off by one lat-lon degree in Baja, you could have an error of 100+ feet in the north-south direction and 80 feet in the east-west direction (errors will be different depending where on the globe you are).

Still, even if you use the wrong datum, and misread the numbers on the map by 1-2 degrees, you will get to within 500 feet of the point you want, that should be close enough to find you destination by using your eyes and feet and looking around. You will never have an error of a mile, the earth’s tectonics plates do not move that fast, Centimeters per year MAX.

The US government can mess with the accuracy, but again we are talking 10's of feet, the size of a pencil dot on a paper map.

I have only had one major screw up with a GPS unit, I was recording archaeological sites on Catalina Island, and the unit gave me a UTM coordinate that was way different than any of the other point I had recorded that day. I looked at the 'estimated accuracy' and it said 20 feet :?:

I then looked at GPS map, and it showed me just to the west of Las Vegas Nevada

, Even though I was 26 miles off the coast of California on an island!

I turned the unit off, then back on and it replotted in the correct location. So the moral of that story is, never completely rely on the unit to tell you where you are, use common sense too. :yes:

[Edited on 9-27-2006 by Taco de Baja]

tripledigitken - 9-27-2006 at 08:52 AM

I have the software and find it useful in my Garmin 276C. However I am getting bad elevation information. If one of you would check yours at LA Bay, the surrounding Mtn's south and north on my show 8000+-'. Are you getting the same bad info? Thanks

Ken

Cypress - 9-27-2006 at 03:44 PM

Taco de Baja! :tumble:

Common sence isn't all that common! :rolleyes:

wornout - 9-27-2006 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taco de Baja

Quote:

Originally posted by TecateRay
Do you know if it just replacing it because there isn't enough memory for both or is it a file naming thing, etc.?

You can load multiple map sections from different maps with Mapsource, I just tested it.

Of course it all depends how much memory you have in the GPSr and Mapsourse does delete all maps in memory before loading new ones. I just selected the baja map from my LBMaps and then switched to City Select 7 and selected a couple of sections of that map and downloaded all.

Al G - 9-27-2006 at 07:04 PM

Wornout....I knew sooner or later you would come through.
I was hoping that was possible, but haven't had time(or knowledge) to attempt it. I wanted to have Baja and California on the same stick.

Taco de Baja - 9-28-2006 at 07:07 AM

Thanks Wornout

,
I'll try that when I am next on my home PC

Bajamatic - 9-28-2006 at 09:47 AM

so would you "expeditioner" users consider this a replacement to the baja almanac (or any other good baja map) or a supplement? I realize that most of you probably have both, but I'm wondering, if thats the case, how often you pull out the almanac....

wornout - 9-28-2006 at 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bajamatic
so would you "expeditioner" users consider this a replacement to the baja almanac (or any other good baja map) or a supplement? I realize that most of you probably have both, but I'm wondering, if thats the case, how often you pull out the almanac....

Expeditioner is the way to go. I have Navigator and very seldom open the almanac. My travels are usually all withing 50 miles of San Felipe and I love just using the GPSr. We save our tracks and other data and the GPSr sure makes that easier.

My neighbor has the Expeditioner and I will probably update when I get back to Baja. Gook luck, wornout

wornout - 9-28-2006 at 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G
Wornout....I knew sooner or later you would come through.
I was hoping that was possible, but haven't had time(or knowledge) to attempt it. I wanted to have Baja and California on the same stick.

I created a map set with Baja and some sections of California, near the border, with City Select and when I get home, I just load that map set and that way I am set for the fall/winter/spring season. Then in the summer, I just load down the sections where I am going. It is as simple as that.

Bajamatic - 9-28-2006 at 11:23 AM

I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a place online to upload and share baja waypoints and routes? I know David K has a website for his waypoints but I think it would be kind of sweet to have a place to share routes and waypoints for those of use who are as addicted to maps as we are baja....

Is there a way to share files on this forumn?

BAJA "Expeditioner" TOPO GPS Map for LOWRANCE

TacoFeliz - 10-7-2006 at 08:39 AM

Yippee! LB Maps now has Expeditioner topo GPS for Lowrance units (the ones that Neal 'Trust Me' Johns can only lust after)

http://www.lbmaps.com/

:yes:

bajalou - 10-7-2006 at 09:35 AM

Still in the old country but heading back to Baja next week. Before I left Baja I loaded selected areas of Mapsource Topo for about 6 states as well as both Baja maps, and the same US state areas using City Source. (256m card)

This in a map76CSx

This works seamlessly between maps as I travel. If I zoom in enough the Topo lines show. I use the "unclutter" setting to keep the maps easier to read - and if you have a external power source, have the back light on all the time and it again improves visability of the screen.

I save all my tracks using OziExplorer on my laptop, so I can project my travels on a larger map. (Also save them to USAPhotoMap for another computer screen view)

Just finishing a trip of about 4500 miles and have saved all the tracks in the 76Csx also, as well as writing all the tracks to the memory card. Forgot the adapter so can't view it directly in the computer till I get home but think I might not have to bother saving the segments if the track written to the card is what I want. Time will tell on this. (have a registry problem with MapSource it so have to reload when I get back home)

[Edited on 10-7-2006 by bajalou]